81 year old Chorbishop of Indian Orthodox beaten up by antiochean faction.

[marthomanasrani]

Another startling incident of cruelty and violence against the St.Thomas christians by their "christian brothers" themselves.

The antiochean allegiant faction in the ancient Malankara Church of St.Thomas(syriac orthodox faction in india) attacked and injured an 81 year old chorbishop of the Malankara Orthodox Church(Indian Orthdodox Church.)

the news article:

"An 81-year-old village bishop of Malankara (Indian) Orthodox Church was severely beaten and hospitalised on August 29 at Kanjiramattam in Ernakulam district of Kerala state, India. Mathews Pulimoottil Cor-episcopa, aged 81, the village bishop and the vicar of the Kajniramattom St. Ignatius Orthodox Syrian Christian Church was severely beaten on Wednesday on the public road near his house while on his way home from the church after the funeral of a member of his parish. The accused, known as Baby of Kaniyamparmbil, apparently slapped the bishop on his face several times until he fell on the road. The accused also thrashed the bishop on his chest and hands and kicked him repeatedly.The accused fled the scene when those who were nearby came to the bishop's aid. Bishop severely injured and admitted at the Kolenchery Medical College. He still at the hospital and continue treatment."Mathews Cor-episcopa yet to be recovered. There are still some internal injuries in his body. So he suffer body aches. He finds very difficult to pick up even a pen, because one of his hands also threshed," Doctor Vinod said the Salem Voice Ministries (SVM) News Service.
After hearing this news, bishop's wife Kunjamma Mathew, 77, became seriously ill and admitted at Chottanikkara Tata hospital.Sudheesh Kumar, the Deputy Superintendant of Police in Muvattupuzha, Kuriakose, Circle Inspector of Piravam and Yunus Kunju, Sub Inspector of Mulanthuruthy are investigating the case. They have arrested the accused, but released on bail due to the political pressure.
Thankachan, Baby, Prince and Sojan are the sons of Bishop Mathews Cor-episcopa.
Since last 55 years of priesthood, Mathews Cor-episcopa served about 40 parishes as vicar in Kochy, Kottayam, Niranam, Malabar and Knanaya Dioceses of the Indian Orthodox Church.

[marthomanasrani]

His Holiness Baselios Marthoma Didymos I, the Catholicos of the East and the Supreme Head of the Indian Orthodox Church along with H.G Paulose Mar Militheos, the Catholicos Designate and other bishops visited him at the hospital. He condemned the incident. "Persecution towards Christians and minorities are being continued by the support of government and police authorities. Mathews Cor-episcopa is one of its last victims," His Holiness Moron Mar Baselius Marthoma Didymos I ( Catholicose of the East and Malankra Metropolitan, Supreme Primate of the Indian Orthodox Church) said.

[marthomanasrani]

Patriarch Ignatius Zakka of Antioch must answer for these continuing atrocities against the Indian church.Why are they clinging to the Indian church,when the majority here wants to restore the St.Thomas christian autnomy ,as it was prior to 1500s.(antiocheans came only in 1665,in the backdrop of portuguese catholic persecution of our community)

There are 2.5 million Oriental Orthodox christians in India,..of these 2 million are Indian Orthodox. Only the rest are syriac orthodox.
Of 3000 churches,2400 belong to the Indian church,only 600 to the Syriac.

The Supreme Court of India judged in favour of the Indian Church,and the Court order is yet to be implemented,if that happens we will be restored 40 or so of our old churches,currently in the hands of the antiochean faction illegally.

Of 5 christian dominated districts in Kerala,the Indian church members are majority in all Four.Only in Ernakulam district are the syriac in a majority.
Yet the Syriac factionists have never faced any problems from the Indian side.But in Ernakulam district violence and crimes against the Indian faction take place almost on a daily basis.Many go unreported,some monstrous deeds such as this(beating up an 81 year old village bishop) may come out.

Antioch must understand that if the Indian side too become extremists like the syriac,it will a dangerous situation.There will not be a single syiac church left in the other 4 districts,where IOC are in brute majority.But we still yearn for peace and live in an atttidue of forgiveness,but 7 times 77 is all we can forgive.
Then there will be a situation ,where the Patriarch of Antioch will be the most hated person for Indian christians.
I pray that will not happen.Pray for peace and also for a christian solution.And may God give good sense to these violent people.

[the_Abbot]

Wow! What a sad situation.

[minasoliman]

Lord have mercy.

Is there any indication that the "Baby of Kaniyamparmbil" works for the Syrian Church? Did they catch him?

[marthomanasrani]

It is certain that the crime was perpretated by an antiochean allegiant christian.Baby of Kaniyanparambil was let go due to pressure by the politicians of that area,who are under the swing of the antiochean faction there.

And such events of violence by syriac against Indians are not uncommon in this district.This has happened for over 100 years now.

Starting from around 1912,..thats when Aanapappy(elephany-pappy),a well built,6-footer body guard of the legendary Mor Dionysius of Vattasseril(known as "Sabhabhasuran"--or "hero of the church") was murdered in cold blood by the antiochean faction.

Vattasseril Mor Dionysius is a Saint of the Indian Orthodox Church,he was the "Malankara Metropolitan" or leader of the St.Thomas christians.
Back then the Catholicose and Malankara Metropolitan were two designations,held by two people.
Mar Dionysios Thirumeni was instrumental in re-establishing the Catholicate of the East and restoring the autonomy of the St.Thomas christians.


Then the antiocheans conspired to bring disrepute to the name of Mor Dionysius Thirumeni and they hired a prostitute for the purpose.
They send the prostitute into one of the seminaries where Thirumeni lived,and they assembled a large group of persons outside the Seminary,so that they could see the prostitute coming out,and be witnesses--and then they could spread lies about the Malankara Metropolitan and thus undermine the movement for St.Thomasine autonomy.
Aanapappy, his bodyguard understood this plot,and he didnt let the woman near Thirumenis room.
But she created a furore.Aanapappy is said to have then murdered the woman,unseen by anyone, behind the seminary and buried her body right there itself.
The crowd waiting outside to see the prostitute coming out were dissapointed when they found out she would never return.


The antiochean faction were outraged learning that their vicious plot was defeated.
They understood that Aanapappy must be first eliminated inorder to harm the Malankara Metropolitan.
Aanapappy was murdered,stabbed to death by a gang of about 10 antiochean extremists while he was coming out alone from a church.This happened in the 1910s.


Then another incident that happened soon after is thus:-
A group of people entered the Seminary at night with the intention of murdering Vattasseril Mar Dionysius Thirumeni.They stood right outside his room with weapons,and they looked into his room.
It was said they found the Bishop on his knees praying to God with tears.
The assassins were said to be so confused,and didnt want to kill such a pious man,they were scared.They left the premises as soon as possible.


Starting from those days,till now Violence has been a means used by the antiochean faction(now a minority ,but also extremists) to undermine the Throne of St.Thomas in India.



Just 4-5 years back,one of the Managing Committee members of the Indian Orthodox Church,a layman known as Varghese,was stopped on the road while travelling alone in his car and stabbed to death by the other faction.
He is now remembered as "Malankara Varghese".The High Court,just a few weeks back removed the charge of investigation from the state police agencies and entrusted the case to CBI(Central Bureau of Investigation),the premier investigative agency in India.Why?--because the Court ruled that the present investigations and reports were criminally misled and influenced by certain lobbies.

The Indian Orthodox Church members,who are the majority in south,they are not in the direct scene of action-ernakulam district,and so most of them have preffered to turn a blind eye,remain unattached to such crimes against their churches in the North.
Recently a bomb exploded in front of an Indian Orthodox church(sealed by police due to violence) in Ernakulam.Groups of youth movement activists of IOC were roughed up a year back there.Churches attacked,priests blackmailed etc.
Two years back,the antiochean faction(jacobites) conducted a rally in which the district collectors car and several private vehicles were burnt.
The rallyists were baton charged,even some priests of their faction got beaten by police.

The jacobites laid all blame for this on the then chief minister of Kerala,mr.Oommen Chandy,an Indian Orthodox christian.They then proceeded to vote enmasse to the communists in the next election.

The intensity of violence has increased in the past 10 years,because the Jacobites are losing ground,fearing the future--due to the SupremeCourt verdict of 1995,which gave all churches to Indian Orthodox side.
The IOCs in the south too are now growing more excited seeing these crimes and extremism is creeping in.Soon,the people of Kerala wont be surprised if mass riots break out in ernakulam district.

Lasttime,the Patriarch of Antioch came,his visit was not obstructed by IOC.
But his next visit will be a law and order problem and it is possible that the Union Govt may ban his visa to India.And if not so,its possible that his visit will provocate violence all across Kerala.

[marthomanasrani]

The Eritrean and Ethiopian churches were built by the missions of the Coptic church.
So they can say the Coptic is their Father church.

But no such relation can exist between India and Syria.Because the Syriac Orthodox (west syriac-antioch) came to India only in 1665.
Infact they were even invited here by our leaders.

We have a history of 2000 years,older than even Rome(St.Thomas came to India in AD 52,while St.Peter reached Rome only in AD 64).
We were after that under the supervision of the PERSIAN church(Also founded by St.Thomas),we were Nestorians till 1500s.

In 1500s the catholics(portuguese colonials) came and cut off the persian links,and tried to Latinise us.For 50 years we were completely under Rome.
But in 1653 our ancestors revolted and took an oath that we will never have anything to do with the Pope,nor the Roman church.

It was in the backdrop of the Revolt against Rome in 1653,that we invited the Syriac Orthodox bishops from Antioch in 1665 to come here and ensure the continuity of our oriental style faith.

We are fed up of arabisation,foreign customs and practises alien to our Civilisation making way into our worship and liturgy.We got many arab customs when one Patriarch of Antioch came here in 1870s and lived here till death.

The Antiocheans say only St.Peter has a throne and all of us must stand under the Arabs.
They deny the Throne of our Apostle St.Thomas in India.

But will the Antiocheans then apply the same argument to the Coptic and say St.Mark does not have a throne,and hence all Copts must come under Antioch?

[minasoliman]

Dear MarthomaNasrani,

I'm sure that the Indian Church deserves her independence, and I consider her a rightful and truthful Orthodox sister church. However, I really do feel there's a slight exaggeration of the issues here.

If I talk with an Antiochian faction Indian Church, they will consider the members of your Church no different than Al Qaeda. They too give news about the "atrocities" those Indian Orthodox do against those of their faction. And they too ask from the Catholicos that he take responsibility of these actions. They even produce pictures of the sights allegedly damaged by your Church.

Therefore, I think you really need to think much deeply and go beyond petty accusations. Certainly, these actions are inexcusable, but you cannot assume this was done by the support of the Antiochian Church unless one gives undoubtful proof. This is the type of debate that never ends. Someone finds a story like what you given us, and it is not disproven, but only answered with another story that makes your Church look bad. What does this mean? Well, this tells me that perhaps these events do happen, but they happen with the stupidity of a few members of each Church, not representing the views of the Churches they are part of.

I'm sorry, but please don't produce such baseless stories. I love the Indian Church. I have very close friends in this Church. I support your autocephaly. What I don't support is such mud unless you have absolute proof. I've seen this over and over again, and it's sad.

We Copts have our problems as well, especially when it comes to the Ethiopians, and the relationship concerning the Ethiopian and Eritreans, as well a current Eritrean scandal. I don't think using them as an example is quite the same as yours. There are some issues where we don't obscure from one another, and certainly we don't kill or ruin each other's properties. We are "at peace" and "in communion," but certainly still working out our problems that we still have.

Finally, I like to say that I agree the history of your Church goes along with Persia. You reserve the right to be considered the successors of St. Thomas. But you cannot ignore the Syrian Church's traditional effect on your Church. Your liturgy is no different from their's. Your ecclesiology and vestments are the same. Your church's official name still has the word "Syrian" in it. They are the Church that preserved your non-Chalcedonian Orthodoxy. I have many friends in your Church that is willing to give the Syrian patriarch the same respect Ethiopians and Eritreans give the Coptic patriarch. On this account, I'm not saying you're not successors of St. Thomas, but I'm saying your tradition is inherently "Syrian" more than it is Indian.

Pray for the peace of both Indian Churches, but don't slander one another. And if one truly experiences such atrocities, let us learn from Chalcedon, where even though we Copts were persecuted by their emperors, we are still willing to forgive on account of their Orthodoxy.

God bless.

[marthomanasrani]

This is the type of hypocritic response that makes one start to wonder whether OO is no different from the western churches.

Can you point out a SINGLE incident of violence by the Indian side?...a single one??.
And you want proof for this recent attack?...What proof more do you need,an 81 year old man is lying injured in hospital,his wife too is in hospital....do you think they are acting??


Dont generalise things,you dont know what is happening here,so its easy to act neutral and make generalised statements,and so wash your hands like Pontius Pilate.

We are NOT Syrian.We are INDIAN.
And syriac language is not exclusive for syrians.Does UK have patent for English?
And today we use few words in syriac,our bishops vestments will be changed soon.


Regarding respect to the Arab Patriarch of Antioch,he is/was respected by everyone.We even pray for him,still in our liturgy.
But that is all.He is now perceived nothing more than a symbol of arab chauvinism by most Indians.

"Antiochayude adimachangala arabikkadallil thulayatte"--this one of the slogans that even women shouted out during a rally by Indians earlier this year.
It means "Let the Slave chains of Antioch be damned in the Arabian Sea!".

Why did we conduct a rally??...Because our Seminary was forcibly encroached by a huge group of antiochean factionists,along with their "catholicose" in february,they illegally entered and conducted a "prayer" there,after locking up our priests inside the seminary.

And this Seminary is Legally and Historically ours.The Supreme Court of India has judged in our favour.

There were more than dozens of Supreme Court and HighCourt judgements in these past 100 years.
Can you show a single judgement in favour of the foreign faction??..

But the government cannot enforce this,due to the extremism and mass resistance of a few thousand families in one district.

If we,2 million Indians were "Alqaeda" as you call,then this Court order would have been enforced,there would not be a single antiochean church standing here.

What im saying is,dont make irresponsible stereotyped statements,when you know nothing much of ground realities here.

[marthomanasrani]

"Pray for the peace of both Indian Churches, but don't slander one another"

Slander?....you mean these violent attacks against even our bishops should be silenced,nothing should be told to the outside world?.

And you say we too do the same to them.I ask you to show a Single event of similar violence by us.Show that first before making baseless accusations.

I think what you want is that such reports of violence against us should not be posted.
Because it will somehow "hurt" the image of Oriental Orthodox,when outsiders come to this forum and read.


This is what is happening in Oriental Orthodoxy in India....this is the ground reality.The truth.This is not slander.


If you want everyone to see a glowing,holy picture of OO,i will refrain from posting these events.This is what is known as turning a blind eye.
The same feeling you get when you walk home after church,with that awesome feeling of piety,self righteousness and holiness.Then suddenly your colourful world is interrupted by an ugly old woman begging to you for a coin.
You would rather pretend that she didnt exist,lest you should feel guilty.Or give her the smallest dime you have in your pocket and quickly walk away,pretending she doesnt exist.

[marthomanasrani]

The only people benefitting from the Faction wars are the "Malankara Syrian Catholic Church",an Eastern Catholic Rite started in the 1930s.

Their bishops too wear the same dress as the Syriac bishops in Antioch.
Their liturgy,prayers etc too are same,only slight differences are there.And they even call their chiefbishop a "catholicose"

When their church started in the 1930s,they had less than 20,000 members.Today they have 5,00,000 members.99% of them converts from the two factions in Malankara church.

They have setup huge cathderals and churches in the ernakulam district,in places where they dont even have a Single family.Why?....because they know its a great opportunity and the right place to win converts from Orthodoxy.

In a place called Thiruvalla,few months back there was an incident.
A bishop of their church,he went and met each family of a particular Orthodox church.A church where both factions fight.
Next day,about 30 of them(from both sides) converted to Catholicism and they now have a new church next to the orthodox one.

This has become a norm now.If you come to Kerala,you will see that next to 50% of orthodox churches there will be this "Malankara Catholic" churches.

Soon,at this rate of faction wars and people fed up of it,Orthodoxy in India will be extinct soon.

Thanks to the Patriarch of Antioch.Thank you so much.Antioch would rather have reigns over some of us,even though most of us would go catholic.The growth of orthodoxy is not their aim,nor its preservation in India.They cant let go.
The interests of Oriental orthodoxy doesnt figure for them...only that of themselves.

There are already 4 catholic rites in Kerala itself.
The Latin Catholic,Syromalabar,Syro-malankara,and Knanaya catholic.
While Orthodoxy is shrinking,the eastern rite catholic churches and pentecostal churches are swelling.

[marthomanasrani]

An Antiochean Patriarch who came here a few decades back told us:
"St.Thomas never came to India.St.Thomas is not a priest like St.Peter or St.John,he is not an Apostle,nor can he have a throne".

Then in 1970s,they gave the title of "Catholicose of India and the East" to the chiefbishop of the antiochean faction.


In 1952,the SyroMalabar catholics(eastern rite-largest st.thomasine church) wanted to celebrate the 1900th anniversary of the arrival of MarThomaSleeha(St.Thomas).
Rome denied them permission.But they rebelled and Conducted a Huge Celebration in Kerala disregarding the Vaticans warnings.

Recently the Pope made a comment-"St.Thomas never came to India".



So Vatican and Antioch,both have same policy.Same policy of denying the St.Thomas tradition of Indian christians.

Because the St.Thomas tradition is the fuel for our Autonomy and it is our identity.So they fear it,they fear that it will lead to the end of their reign over us.
So they question our identity,deny it and impose their latin or arab identities upon us.

This is the cause of violence and animosities.Antioch and Vatican must learn respect for others.
Not behave like colonial lords.


{The worlds first mass-organised Revolt against colonialism took place in India in 1653 AD.
It was by our Ancestors-the marthoma nasranis/st.thomas christians who smashed a Portguese fort and the portuguese gateway arch and rioted in 1653.
Because of the same issue-The St.Thomas christian identity being denied and foreign identity being imposed by the so called foreign "spiritual leaders".}

[minasoliman]

I'm sorry, but again, your claims against the Syrian Church are still baseless. I'm not saying don't post about the violence. You are free to post the events that occur. We have a right to know them.

Neither am I saying that these events should be ignored. You have not read my message carefully. What I am saying is I have read many many many of these stories. Let me tell you. If a Malankara Orthodox of the Antiochian Church comes here and reads this, he (or she) would probably give the same slander to your Church. They have pictures and stories of apparently "their Churches" being destroyed and ruined, and the blame it on you. I don't have time to waste finding them. The issue is simply this: You have no proof to say the actual Antiochian Church did this to you, just as I tell my Antiochian friends they have no proof the Indian Church actually endorses ruining their churches.

Now concerning the other issues of Apostolic succession, I consider these issues also petty. In fact, the issue of St. Thomas being a successor is not some sort of reason for autocephaly. Autocephaly occured because a certain Syrian patriarch in the early 20th century granted this for you. Ethiopians and Eritreans have mentioned that they are successors of St. Mark through the Coptic Church, and they are still autocephalous.

I also understand there's a Syrian patriarch who later said St. Thomas was not a priest. As I understand the Syrian Church has not officially endorsed that idea, neither have they endorsed the idea that St. Thomas never came to India. They may lament his unfortunate statement, but it's something that the Syrian Indian Christians even object to. Instead, they even remember his name along with St. Peter in the liturgy to show that they believe he is an Apostle. As I understand, a liturgical statement is much stronger than a patriarchal one.

Regardless though, the issue of Apostolic succession is trivial. We don't need to name a specific Apostle in order to feel like we're legitimate. We're legitimate because we can trace our history back, but the name of an Apostle is simply trivial to the fact that it was an Apostle. So, whether you're of St. Mark or St. Thomas or St. John or St. Andrew or St. Peter, all that matters is that your Apostleship can be taken back to Christ. Sure, we have to honor those Apostles that represent our land, but certainly not have them as a foundation in replacing Christ. Many times in the history of the Coptic Church, the successors of St. Peter would ordain our patriarchs, and we still enthrone him as the successor of St. Mark. Why not St. Peter? Because an apostle is an apostle not because of Peter or Mark, but it's all the same in Christ. In fact, every Church, even though we can trace ourselves back to the Apostles, in the end, we call ourselves "Apostolic Churches," not Markan or Petrine, but "Apostolic" because it does not matter who the Apostle is, but it matters in Christ. We are all equally successors of Peter, Mark, Paul, John, Andrew, and Thomas. I don't just say this to you, but to the Syrians as well. (If Syrians promoted Petrine primacy, trust me, the Coptic Church would be the first to condemn her, as we have very close relations with them.)

Again, report all you want. I'm not here to prevent an ugly picture of the OO's. If anything, we Copts have our ugliness as well, and if anyone wants to report, feel free. But I resent misrepresentations of the reports. I also resent that you don't even support your facts. Both you and the Antiochians are acting like babies who cannot get past baseless accusations that you learn from your parents, and both you and the Antiochian Church deserve the increase in Catholic and Pentecostal population. Don't blame them alone. Blame yourselves as well. I have yet to see humble people on either side to explain a more objective view of the situation. Islam grew because Orthodox Christians did not know how to get together and work together. We deserve the Islamic increase.

God bless you and bless us all with peace and mercy.

[marthomanasrani]

Your lines on apostolic succession were enlightening.

However you said we are autocephalous because some Syriac patriarch granted us.
Yes,it was a patriarch--who was deposed from his title by a Muslim Ruler,.and living in exile somewhere.While the "legitimate"(meaning approved by muslim ruler) Patriarch didnt want to give us autonomy.

We brought this deposed,yet rightful titleholder of the Antioch patriarchate to give us autonomy,by enthroning our Catholicos.


Second,yes- i agree just as you deserve the muslims,we deserve these catholics and pentecostals.
It is a symptom of our ills.That is somehow true.


Thirdly,...you say the antiochean church is not directly linked to these attacks.
Maybe the patriarch/arab bishops are not directly in the scene of action.


But let me tell you what happened in the first week of February,this year.
Thrikkunathu Seminary,run by our bishops,where our seminarians live,and it was even established by our Second Catholicose in 1920s.,but when we united in 1958,and consequently again split in 1970s,they started claiming the Seminary was theirs!!...
So the issue went to Court,and the court judged in our favour,leaving the Seminary in the rightful legal possession of the Indian church.

.it was encroached one day by a group of 2000 jacobites,..after they locked up our few priests and seminarians living there(in a jacobite majority area)..

then they walked inside the church,to the tomb of our bishops...their way being led by none other than the "Catholicose" of the Syriac Orthodox......!!...they left after conducting a 5 minute prayer there.

An illegal encroachment,after locking up our priests....in defiance of court orders!..
and led by their ChiefBishop!!...

The Jacobite church is in a path of direct confrontation.....earlier their Catholicose had earned notoriety in Kerala for being part of a fasting Strike in front of this same seminary!..
It was decried by all other churches,that a Catholicose should not degrade himself to this level.

Ask anyone whether any bishop of IOC has done anything like this.


Consider this the last of these type of posts from me for now.Because it would be perceived as one-sided and i only have respect for Antioch,because of the christians from there who helped us 300 years back.,not bcos of any of their merits now.
All i intend is to let the Arab christians,Syriac Orthodox in Syria know what is happening here.I would like to knw what their perception of this issue is.

And let rest of OO introspect whether Petrine Supremacy shd be applied only with regard to Indian Church.
And what role does the OO communion have to play in resolving such issues?..only that of a mute spectator?

[marthomanasrani]

Abt not supporting facts:i cant post newslinks unless i hve somuch posts.

[minasoliman]

How many posts you have left? Give the link without any "dots" in the middle. Instead of "coptichymns.net" write "coptichymns net" or "coptichymns_net."

Just one quick comment about the Indian courts. I have personally researched and read quite a bunch about this situation. One of the sad things I feel is that the issues between Orthodox Christians have to end up being resolved by courts ruled largely by Hindus and Sikhs (and it never ends in the United States either, as the NY state courts are appealed to rule out whether a certain Church belongs to the Syrians or the Indians. It saddens my heart and makes me sad about all the families being torn apart.)

I do wish OO's would not be mute spectators, but as we see it, there is not one Church without a problem it has to deal with. Armenians have problems within her own divisions and with the Georgian Orthodox. Copts have problems with Ethiopians, Eritreans, and a few local issues concerning our Pope and relations with other priests (not to mention Max Michel), and finally the Syrian Church and the Indian Church. I do however feel there needs to be an intervention. It's interesting to me that the Armenian Catholicose intervened to bring peace between the Copts and Ethiopians. I hope this serves as a precedent for the Syrians and the Indians.

May God bless you, bless us all, and grant us all peace to end the schisms of the Church. Amen!

PS If one reads the history of the EO Church (i.e. recent history) one finds similar problems occurring between Constantinople and many Eastern European churches. I pray all ends in peace and harmony just as EO's today do so.