Who are the nation who will make the Jews jealous ?

[stranger]

Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

[visionary]

Anyone who keeps the covenant better than they.

[ContraMundum]

I think it will be Brazil. In fact, I think they already do. Their football (soccer) team is waaaaaaaaaaaay better.

:)

[TheRabbi]

Who are the nation who will make the Jews jealous ?

I don't know, but they'd better have alot of money.

[mpossoff]

Inclusion in Israel is not the result of choosing to follow the Noach-ide laws or to go to synagogue or to convert to a sect of mainstream Judaism. These are all ways certain people have chosen to define other people in relation to themselves. Rather, God makes the covenant, takes away sins, irrevocably calls, and grafts in. In Messiah Yeshua, the status of the Gentile as a full participant in Israel is not predicated upon any tractate of the Talmud or other halach-ic ruling. No, the Gentile's position was bought with the blood of Messiah himself!

The true mystery and miracle is that those who were born Gentiles and who were without hope or God in the world, have been raised up and placed as part of the redeemed people of God. This is why Paul admonishes the gentiles to remember where they came from; so that they would not boast in themselves but in Him. What He has done was (and is), in man's eyes, impossible. But with God, all things are possible

Therefore when Gentiles keep Torah 'better' than a native born it makes the Jews jealous. I've talked to some unbelieving Jews about this. They say it makes them angry but it's really jealousy. "Torah is suppose to be for us Jews only!" Jealously disguised as anger?

Marc

[visionary]

Inclusion in Israel is not the result of choosing to follow the Noach-ide laws or to go to synagogue or to convert to a sect of mainstream Judaism. These are all ways certain people have chosen to define other people in relation to themselves. Rather, God makes the covenant, takes away sins, irrevocably calls, and grafts in. In Messiah Yeshua, the status of the Gentile as a full participant in Israel is not predicated upon any tractate of the Talmud or other halach-ic ruling. No, the Gentile's position was bought with the blood of Messiah himself!

The true mystery and miracle is that those who were born Gentiles and who were without hope or God in the world, have been raised up and placed as part of the redeemed people of God. This is why Paul admonishes the gentiles to remember where they came from; so that they would not boast in themselves but in Him. What He has done was (and is), in man's eyes, impossible. But with God, all things are possible

Therefore when Gentiles keep Torah 'better' than a native born it makes the Jews jealous. I've talked to some unbelieving Jews about this. They say it makes them angry but it's really jealousy. "Torah is suppose to be for us Jews only!" Jealously disguised as anger?

Marc
:amen: I wish I could rep you.. but I have repped you too many times lately.

[nasa1]

If anyone will make the Jews jealous, its the arabs.

When they see how many Edomites are saved by Yeshua, I think they will wake up.

nasa

[visionary]

If anyone will make the Jews jealous, its the arabs.

When they see how many Edomites are saved by Yeshua, I think they will wake up.

nasagood luck with that one

[ContraMundum]

Who are the nation who will make the Jews jealous ?

I don't know, but they'd better have alot of money.


:D Hilarious.

[GerTzedek]

It's the Palestinians. Consider: not a people... a foolish nation...

And... the Jews are OBVIOUSLY jealous of them. WEll... May not... YET. But give it time.

After all, when you can do every stupid thing in the book, and commit evil atrocities, and the world still loves you, what's not to be jealous of?

[GerTzedek]

LOL It won't let me rep you again.

[stranger]

Anyone who keeps the covenant better than they.

Which covenant?... Israel already proved that hardly any man can keep the old covenant, and the new covenant is unconditional, god chooses who to baptise of His spirit in this world to know all truth now [John 16:13] and who in the new earth...

[stranger]

LOL It won't let me rep you again.

Thank you Lord for small mercies .... ;)

I suppose you know how impossible it is to appeal these senseles 'reps' ,why not discuss on the basis of scripture realising that God knows it better than either of us ?

[stranger]

I think it will be Brazil. In fact, I think they already do. Their football (soccer) team is waaaaaaaaaaaay better.

:)

Nay my friend, one could wish , because of their loving nature and beautiful skills with a ball , but they never became "not a people " as required by scripture , as the House of Israel did

[stranger]

Who are the nation who will make the Jews jealous ?

I don't know, but they'd better have alot of money.

I doubt that they will, saints spend all their money on the poor....;)

[stranger]

Inclusion in Israel is not the result of choosing to follow the Noach-ide laws or to go to synagogue or to convert to a sect of mainstream Judaism. These are all ways certain people have chosen to define other people in relation to themselves. Rather, God makes the covenant, takes away sins, irrevocably calls, and grafts in. In Messiah Yeshua, the status of the Gentile as a full participant in Israel is not predicated upon any tractate of the Talmud or other halach-ic ruling. No, the Gentile's position was bought with the blood of Messiah himself!

The true mystery and miracle is that those who were born Gentiles and who were without hope or God in the world, have been raised up and placed as part of the redeemed people of God. This is why Paul admonishes the gentiles to remember where they came from; so that they would not boast in themselves but in Him. What He has done was (and is), in man's eyes, impossible. But with God, all things are possible

Therefore when Gentiles keep Torah 'better' than a native born it makes the Jews jealous. I've talked to some unbelieving Jews about this. They say it makes them angry but it's really jealousy. "Torah is suppose to be for us Jews only!" Jealously disguised as anger?

Marc


The mass of the gentiles is saved afterward [Rev 7:9-10] by the ministry of the few as priests and kings in the kingdom of God in the new earth ... thus the gentiles have nothing to do with making the Jews jealous, and almost any Jew will show you why he is not jealous of the knowledge of christians, because the Jews know their scripture better than almost all christians.... christians listen to their sinner priests and hope sinneras are acceptable to Jesus but the seal of God is to depart from sin, not to be a sinner :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.The irony then is that almost all christians and almost all Jews die as sinners and will be judged by works in God's kingdom come, not by grace as the few who find the narrow strait way of sainthood in this life ....

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Thus one could AVOID all this discussion simply by READING the new covenant of grace -Jer 31:31-34 ... it is not that long, just four verses rep[eated by Paul in Heb 8:8-12...

So pleas eread it and note that the NEW covenant is only with those whose fathers broke the old covenant, only with the two ancient divisions of Israel, the House of Judah and the House of Israel... not with their fathers who broke the old covenant, but with their descendants, the 'children' of Israel .... descendants of Jacob... one cannot escape this no matter how christians wheedle , Jesus states that all the firstfruit saints are of tribal Israel [Rev 7:3-8] , descendants of the sons of Jacob...

Paul also describes Israel as being Jacob... there is no doubt in scripture about who israel are, but christian sinners teach otherwise just because the House of israel , to whom jesus was sent by God, dwell anonymously ,as if gentiles ,amongst the gentiles , not having their name named upon them, not having a religion to hold them together as a nation , as the Jews have Judaism...

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:The christian teaching that Israel WAS rejected is TRUE, but they leave out the new covannat! Israel was rejected but now is the people of God again, Israel were named not the people of Goid and now are named the people of God again ... Hosea 1

The new covenant confirms this in both NT and OT, yet men manage to argue over what it says because they do not want to believe it... because there are vested interests in religion, but these have nothing to do with the truth, any more than politics does in the world, [or on this site... LOL?] ... thus read the new covenant, it is not long and it is very clear indeed, those whose fathers were rejected for breaking the old covenant, the descendants of Jacob, are now forgiven ...

but clearly many have died in unbelief in the messiah and cannot live until the second resurrection... yet paul states above that all Israel will be saved... it has a message for sinners who believe what sinners teach, that sinners must be justifiued in this life or somehow be 'lost' to God... if Israel's sinners acn be saved then so can the gentiles' sinners, and indeed Jesus reveals the saving of countless many gentiles [Rev 7:9-10] , but after the FEW of Israel.. thus most of Israel are saved at the same time as the many gentiles, after the second resurrection, and we know they live righteously as saints in the new earth because Peter revealed it to us :-

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.So there is actually no problem except this rather insane jostling to be first, which God has already decided who will be first and Jesus has had revealed - Rev 7:3-8 ... what's to discuss ????

[stranger]

:amen: I wish I could rep you.. but I have repped you too many times lately.

Live by God's rule of love my friend, not by ad hoc unloving rules of men.... it is a worthwhile lesson to learn now, saves much reprimand from God later and sadness at what we bacame in this world ...

we can live as brothers and sisters in love because God loves us, or you can remain hostile and let God teach you to love the harder way

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

[mpossoff]

Which covenant?... Israel already proved that hardly any man can keep the old covenant, and the new covenant is unconditional, god chooses who to baptise of His spirit in this world to know all truth now [John 16:13] and who in the new earth...

God still is in covenant with Israel.

There are blessings for obeying it and curses for disobeying it. The problem is not His Torah, the problem is us.

11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’
14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them,
18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
20 that you may love the LORD your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”



Marc

[stranger]

If anyone will make the Jews jealous, its the arabs.

When they see how many Edomites are saved by Yeshua, I think they will wake up.

nasa

There surely are some of th house of Israel whose descendants live as Arabs and who love Israel instead of hating her ... but sadly most Arabs are taught from childhood to hate Irsale and do not know that their own salvation depends on the minsitry of Israel as kings ond priests in the new earth kingdom of God come upon the earth ...

he point made by scripture is that the nation CEASED to be a people, yet are now the people of God under the new covenant.... there are only two nations mentioned in the new covenenat [jer 31:31-34], they are the House of judah [who are all Jews and keep Judaism] and the House of Israel [who have worshipped other gods for millenia and are not a recognisable people any longer]

Thus it is the House of Israel who will make the Jews jealous after the long-standing prophecy of Moses that they will ... now Jesus was sent ONLY to the House of Israel, to begi the process leading to the acceptance of him by the Jews... it is a process though that eh states will only yield 144,000 by the future time of his return... and perhaps half these may be Jews, the rest are descendants of the House of Israel who today look like gentiles, their families having lived as gentiles amongst gentiles for three millenia now... hence to big confusion between Jews and christians that serves neither of them the truth of scripture.... in the absurd anti-semitic distortion of scripture by the church the truth is lost to most chrsitians, and the Jews mostly cannot accept Jesus as their messiah because after all he doies not rule them NOW !

Ths the truth of scripture, though written. is hidden from most eyes by traditions on both sides which scripture COULD prove are false... but men will not be reproved by scripture, rather the change the scripture instead of their beliefs and just ignore the bits that don't fit !

[TheRabbi]

Quote:
I doubt that they will, saints spend all their money on the poor


Then they might be saints, but we won't be getting jealous of them.

[stranger]

It's the Palestinians. Consider: not a people... a foolish nation...

And... the Jews are OBVIOUSLY jealous of them. WEll... May not... YET. But give it time.

After all, when you can do every stupid thing in the book, and commit evil atrocities, and the world still loves you, what's not to be jealous of?

Unfortuantely the 'Palestinians' were never a nation before whereas the House of Israel was , and scripture requires that it be a nation which ceased to be a people... also it has to be a nation mentioned in the new covenant, and there are only two... the House of Judah has never ceased to be a nation but is united worldwide by Judaism. whereas the House of Israel never accepted Judaism... but served other gods and was scattered amoingst the gentiles to serve other gods...

Jeremiah 16:13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.

But in the new covenant the House of Israel is accepted, and still there is no requirement that they become Jews or accept Judaism,...

[HadassahSukkot]

:doh:

[GerTzedek]

Keeping Covenant is not about whether a person can be 100% faithful. It was NEVER about that.

Consider: when Moshe came down from Mt Sinai with the first set of Tablets, the people had already broken the first two commandments. He was so angry he threw down the Tablets. It was apparent RIGHT THEN AND THERE that they were not going to be able to keep the commandments.

So what was the reason to go back and get a second set?

To return again and again and again to faithfulness. To follow the teachings is not to measure 100%. It is to aspire to the ideal. It is to say: I accept these teachings, these precepts, as my Covenant.

What marriage is perfect? Does any couple perfectly keep their vows to love, honor and cherish? And yet their Covenant still stands. They fall apart, they come back together, they work it out, they return to their vows.

This idea that the Mosaic Covenant was there "ONLY" to show us that we can't keep it is an idea inherited from 2000 years of Christian increasing misunderstanding. Ditch it.

[nasa1]

There surely are some of th house of Israel whose descendants live as Arabs and who love Israel instead of hating her ... but sadly most Arabs are taught from childhood to hate Irsale and do not know that their own salvation depends on the minsitry of Israel as kings ond priests in the new earth kingdom of God come upon the earth ...

he point made by scripture is that the nation CEASED to be a people, yet are now the people of God under the new covenant.... there are only two nations mentioned in the new covenenat [jer 31:31-34], they are the House of judah [who are all Jews and keep Judaism] and the House of Israel [who have worshipped other gods for millenia and are not a recognisable people any longer]

Thus it is the House of Israel who will make the Jews jealous after the long-standing prophecy of Moses that they will ... now Jesus was sent ONLY to the House of Israel, to begi the process leading to the acceptance of him by the Jews... it is a process though that eh states will only yield 144,000 by the future time of his return... and perhaps half these may be Jews, the rest are descendants of the House of Israel who today look like gentiles, their families having lived as gentiles amongst gentiles for three millenia now... hence to big confusion between Jews and christians that serves neither of them the truth of scripture.... in the absurd anti-semitic distortion of scripture by the church the truth is lost to most chrsitians, and the Jews mostly cannot accept Jesus as their messiah because after all he doies not rule them NOW !

Ths the truth of scripture, though written. is hidden from most eyes by traditions on both sides which scripture COULD prove are false... but men will not be reproved by scripture, rather the change the scripture instead of their beliefs and just ignore the bits that don't fit !



Stranger, how can you say that Judah has been faithful to the L-rd? The Bible is full of scriptures which speak of the unfaithfulness of Judah.

Yes, G-d often speaks of the "House of Israel" and the "House of Judah," but they aren't two seperate houses - they are both Jewish houses and both have had their good and bad moments.

nasa

[visionary]

Stranger, how can you say that Judah has been faithful to the L-rd? The Bible is full of scriptures which speak of the unfaithfulness of Judah.

Yes, G-d often speaks of the "House of Israel" and the "House of Judah," but they aren't two seperate houses - they are both Jewish houses and both have had their good and bad moments.

nasa If you keep that up Nasa, we are going to think that you are a nice guy and start like having you around.

What I am saying is.. that was a good post.:thumbsup:

[LittleLambofJesus]

Therefore when Gentiles keep Torah 'better' than a native born it makes the Jews jealous. I've talked to some unbelieving Jews about this. They say it makes them angry but it's really jealousy. "Torah is suppose to be for us Jews only!" Jealously disguised as anger?

Marc
Shalom. I would think the Jews would be happy knowing that they will be "delivered" upon their belief in Messiah.
This greek word for "loosening" is only used twice in the NT and it does concern the Jewish Nation only it seems, so those gentiles who think ALL Christians will be "raptured" first appear to be mistaken according to this. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/
Excellent greek/hebrew interlinear but uses the W-H MS for the GNT. Sigh.

Luke 21:28 and these things beginning to happen bend yourselves back, and lift up your heads, because the deliverence/from-loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of you doth draw nigh.'

1 Corin 1:30 Out of Him yet ye are in Anointed Jesus, Who was become wisdom to us from God, righteousness besides, and hallowing and deliverence/from-loosing/apolutrwsiV <629>
31 That according as has been written 'the one boasting in Lord, let him be boasting'!

[ContraMundum]

Nay my friend, one could wish , because of their loving nature and beautiful skills with a ball , but they never became "not a people " as required by scripture , as the House of Israel did

You're no fun. Killjoy. :P

Too bad Israel doesn't have a team in the Rugby World Cup. They could be another speed hump for the proper teams. :)

Go the Wallabies! (91-3 over Japan)

[stranger]

Stranger, how can you say that Judah has been faithful to the L-rd? The Bible is full of scriptures which speak of the unfaithfulness of Judah.


I have never said that Judah has been faithful , my friend , quite the opposite, BOTH Houses of Israel were rejected by God for breaking the old covenant which their fathers agreed with God to keep !

But BOTH Houses are now foirgiven in their new covenat , which is only with those whose fathers broke the old covenant -Heb 8:8-12

Yes, G-d often speaks of the "House of Israel" and the "House of Judah," but they aren't two seperate houses - they are both Jewish houses and both have had their good and bad moments.The scripture disagrees with your view, the thing about 'Jews' is that they all keep Judaism.. but part of Israel served other gods, both before and after scattering by God... thus they did not keep Judaism and were never Jews ... but they are Israel.. despite living now scattered worldwide amongst the gentiles, living as gentiles, not Jews...

All Jews are Israel, bu much of Israel is not Jewish, does not keep Judaism and never did :-

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Again Moses states in prophecy that a nation who ceased to be a people will make the Jews jealous.... clearly that 'foolish' nation is not Jewish since the Jews never lost being a people because of Judaism ... but the bible shows who they are, none other than the lost sheep of the House of Israel who never were Jews , never accepted Judaism, served other gods and were rejected by the Jews, but are still descendants of Jacob , still Israel.

Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Isaiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.There is only one foolish holy nation in scripture whom God rejected amd now accepts under their new covenant, and they are not Jews, but the lost sheep of the House of Israel... which is why the messiah was sent by God ONLY to them ... they are the starting point and come to amke the Jews jealous by their knowledge of the Jewish Messiah whom most Jews believe ahs not arrived yet, after all Jews have no king and are not yet re-united with the rest of Israel who served and serve other gods, unlike the Jews with Judaism,,,

[GerTzedek]

stranger, you don't have to reply to posts that are obviously not serious.

[ChazakEmunah]

Who are the nation who will make the Jews jealous ?

I don't know, but they'd better have alot of money.
ROFL!!

[zaksmummy]

Then they might be saints, but we won't be getting jealous of them.
Why not?

What would make you jealous?

[TheRabbi]

It' part of a joke I posted earlier. Never mind.

[nasa1]

If you keep that up Nasa, we are going to think that you are a nice guy and start like having you around.

What I am saying is.. that was a good post.:thumbsup:



LOL....We Calvinists are hard core sometimes so it seems that we are mean at times.

But you know at certain times of the month, yes I am grouchy...:) (I'm a woman, everyone!)



I find that there is always someone out there that will accuse you of something...like one time at christianity.com, in their forum, I was speaking of G-d's promises to the remnant of Israel and that Great Day (some call it the Millennium) and one mod called my views racist! (racist against non-Jews)


And then one time a universalist called me down just simply because I believe in a literal fire and brimstone Gehenna. "I don't know what God you are following, but it's not mine!" was the response.


So you see, no matter what view you have, someone will always get offended and think you're mean, or nice (because you are agreeing with them) or whatever.


I think it's best to just want to please G-d and be true to the Bible. Then you won't go wrong very much.


Thanks Visionary,

NASA

[visionary]

LOL....We Calvinists are hard core sometimes so it seems that we are mean at times.

But you know at certain times of the month, yes I am grouchy...:) (I'm a woman, everyone!)



I find that there is always someone out there that will accuse you of something...like one time at christianity.com, in their forum, I was speaking of G-d's promises to the remnant of Israel and that Great Day (some call it the Millennium) and one mod called my views racist! (racist against non-Jews)


And then one time a universalist called me down just simply because I believe in a literal fire and brimstone Gehenna. "I don't know what God you are following, but it's not mine!" was the response.


So you see, no matter what view you have, someone will always get offended and think you're mean, or nice (because you are agreeing with them) or whatever.


I think it's best to just want to please G-d and be true to the Bible. Then you won't go wrong very much.


Thanks Visionary,

NASAControversal views are always the ones that cause tension, stress, and a reason for deeper thinking for those looking for the solution to the puzzle. I call it the cutting edge, where the Lord can answer, when asked.

[stranger]

bump...

[philemon]

I doubt that they will, saints spend all their money on the poor....;)


LOL

[visionary]

Art Katz says that the spirit of God shining out from in us. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8490307406925618282&q=art+katz&total=92&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[nasa1]

It's the Palestinians. Consider: not a people... a foolish nation...

And... the Jews are OBVIOUSLY jealous of them. WEll... May not... YET. But give it time.

After all, when you can do every stupid thing in the book, and commit evil atrocities, and the world still loves you, what's not to be jealous of?

I dont think that the Jewish people are jealous of Palestinians at all not now, anyway.

I think that some Jews hate them, some are merely irritated, some could care less.


But I think it is very hard for Jewish people who follow the Torah to accept that there is a Palestinian presence in Israel. I think it really irks them when they see that gold atrocity in pictures of their beloved city.


As for jealousy, no I don't think so - not yet.

We'll have to see what happens. Maybe when Yeshua returns, and they see all the Gentiles with resurrected, glorified bodies, they might realize they missed out and get jealous of our spiritual gifts.

For now, there ain't no Jewish people who are jealous of Christians. All the Christians in the world right now could become staunch Torah keepers and they still wouldn't get jealous!


NASA

[nasa1]

Controversal views are always the ones that cause tension, stress, and a reason for deeper thinking for those looking for the solution to the puzzle. I call it the cutting edge, where the Lord can answer, when asked.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

On one hand, I think there are times to leave controversy alone, because Paul said that if someone wants to keep quarrelling about the Torah and keeps talking about controversial issues then that man is warped and self-condemned.

But I also think that there are many controversial things going on in the world concerning believers and the Bible and so we need to talk about those things sometimes.

The Bible says that judgment begins with the House of Lord, and if we are scarcely saved, what will happen to those who do not obey the gospel? Paul also says that if we judge ourselves, we would not come under judgment. And sometimes the things we do are bad and we need to address those issues. I totally believe in the new man but lurking underneath is that old sinful man and that old man is very decietful and one heck of a liar. So we need to keep sharpening ourselves and judge ourselves and stay in line. Truth hurts sometimes I guess.

NASA

[stranger]

stranger, you don't have to reply to posts that are obviously not serious.

Ther is truth even behind humour my friend, in fact humour is simply the truth which most people will not yet accept, so people laugh at it to hide their embarassment ...

Thus one might use humour to reveal the deeper truths of God, but men are not even ready for that yet, men still believe in men, in sinners even, relying on sinners to guide governmment and religion alike... not only in the world at large ,but in Israel too ...

Clearly it will cahnge, but not until afte the antichrist unites all the world in one belief against the few, the remnant few saints of Israel, perhaps just 2000 odd left alive by that time, and scattered worldiwde .... it is easy to see why men follow sinners and choose them to lead even their religions and goivernments , but there are cobsequences to this foolishness , much pain and suffering in the end ... before men realise God was right ...

thus there is every reasonn to answer humour and bring it to light, not just foolish laughter at ourselves adn what we allow that we know is wrong ...

[stranger]

I dont think that the Jewish people are jealous of Palestinians at all not now, anyway.

I think that some Jews hate them, some are merely irritated, some could care less.


But I think it is very hard for Jewish people who follow the Torah to accept that there is a Palestinian presence in Israel. I think it really irks them when they see that gold atrocity in pictures of their beloved city.


As for jealousy, no I don't think so - not yet.

We'll have to see what happens. Maybe when Yeshua returns, and they see all the Gentiles with resurrected, glorified bodies, they might realize they missed out and get jealous of our spiritual gifts.

For now, there ain't no Jewish people who are jealous of Christians. All the Christians in the world right now could become staunch Torah keepers and they still wouldn't get jealous!


NASA

You seem to have missed the whole point of the thread, it is neither Jews ,nor chsitains ,nor Palestinians who will make the Jews jealous, it is the pagnsed lost house of Israel, scripture IDENTIFIES them although they ceased to be a people three millenia ago , they are mentioned as one of only two nations forgiven in the new covenant with Israel ... but the Jews , the other nation derived of the House of Judah, never ceased to be a people and they hardly make each other jealous ... so we know that The House of Israel are the ones, and indeed Jesus was sent only to them for that very reason...

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Why is he sent only to a nation which ceased to exist a millenium before he came ?

[stranger]

so those gentiles who think ALL Christians will be "raptured" first appear to be mistaken according to this. Thoughts?

Rapture of a billion christian sinners is indeed wishful thinking , Jesus lists the 144,000 saints sealed in Reve 7:3-8 who are taken first [at His return] and conforms that the many are taken later [Rev 7:9-10] through works in the new earth kingdom , NOT by grace of the new covenant with Israel :-

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Thus the scripture is right and men wrong yet again, men only like to SAY they believe it ALL, not to do that ... the few find the narrow strait way and are sealed by DEPARTING from sinning ... men do not like to believe that this is the foudation of salvation , perfection of love, but that is what God requires :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.The few are sealed Rev 7:3-4 as saints, not sinners , and we know 144,000 is literal because Enoch confirms that there are but tens of thousands of saints in this world's history :-

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Thus almost all chrisianity is wrong by the very scripture they say they believe in.... it is rather remarkable that chrsitian hatred of Israel has driven them into this apostasy from the scripture and away from God.... the Jews understandably then reject christian non-scriptural nonsense , but overlook that a foolish nation which ceased to be a people will emereg and make them jealous over knowledge of the messiah... he only nation in scripture which fits the scripture is teh lost House of Israel , those of Israel who worshipped other gods even after being scattered, and merged with other nations, unlike the Jews who kept their identity as Israel when scattered because they did NOT serve other gods, but all follow Judaism to this day...

God then chooses the foolish House of Israel to yield a tiny remnant of saints who will convince a remannt of the Jews about the identity of the Messiah :-

Deuteronomy 32:21 ... I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

[stranger]

You're no fun. Killjoy. :P

Too bad Israel doesn't have a team in the Rugby World Cup. They could be another speed hump for the proper teams. :)

Go the Wallabies! (91-3 over Japan)

Hmmm.. I belive the score is about 10,000,000 to 0 for God in the end, starting only with one Messiah and a team of foolish outcasts ... shows what can be done with the right coach and some good hard training , but most coaches would not think baptism of fire was fair on the players... ;)

[stranger]

Originally Posted by TheRabbi http://www3.foru.ms/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://foru.ms/showthread.php?p=38645605#post38645605)
Then they might be saints, but we won't be getting jealous of them.


Many are deeply afraid of what god has in store for those left behind by the Messiah , as well men might attend to... it makes this a serious matter , and divided religion shows it is not understood by many... thus this is not the place for your misleading humour , you are simply misleading some and cluttering the thread with irrelevances....

If you want to be humourous then at least mark it as humour and make it relevant ...some people can indeed only laugh in bemusement and that is understandable , but please have more respect for the discussion of God's word here, since this matter is not clear to billions of folks...

[ChazakEmunah]

but please have more respect for the discussion of God's word here, since this matter is not clear to billions of folks...
Just so you understand our position, we don't regard the NT as "G-d's Word."

Personally, I really don't understand what you're trying to say. It seems like your trying to say that a bunch of pagans will make Jews jealous. Jealous of what? Torah? Je*us? I can't seem to sort out your thoughts here. Perhaps you can clarify them for me?

[muffler dragon]

Jealous of what?

Thank you for asking this.

[stranger]

Just so you understand our position, we don't regard the NT as "G-d's Word."


That would be the royal 'we' then ? It is a big mistake to speak for others even if you think you know what they believe... let them speak for themselves ....

Do you not see that the tens of thousands of saints have something to say from God as well as the prophets?

Do you not see that teh NT is based solely on the OT scriptures despite that the so-called 'christian' religion is not ?

A mistake then to throw out the baby with the bathwater.... reject religion by all means because it comes from sinners, but why reject the saints who simply re-iterate the Ot works of the prophets and offer further truths about the significance of the OT scroiptures ???

Personally, I really don't understand what you're trying to say. It seems like your trying to say that a bunch of pagans will make Jews jealous. Jealous of what? Torah? Je*us? I can't seem to sort out your thoughts here. Perhaps you can clarify them for me?As I keep saying, it is noT I who is trying to say anything, I am only here to dsicuss what God says in scripture, in particular about a strange nation who are not a people, who were rejected and scattered amongst all nations, who rejected Judaism and serve other gods, but whom God has said in His new covenant are made the people of God by His will, not through any merit of their own, through grace...

It is the scripture , and in particular the OT , that carries this witness from God , it simply needs to be listened too if one wants the truth from God, but is being largely ignored by both Jews and christian alike .. despite that the Messiah said he was only sent to the House of Israel who are the only one's in scripture who fit the description of this foolish holy nation whoich ceased to be a people, yet are descended from Jacob and never were Jews, never accepted Judaism...

Many Jews have 'forgotten' about the House of Israel and their separation because they would not accept Judaism but sereved other gods ... but it is just as unscriptural for Jews to ignore the other part of Israel as it is for christians to pretend that Jesus is not a Jew come to re-unite Israel into one holy nation under one king ... both are simply wrong by God's witness to the prophets recorded in writing.

One cannot find the truth by following sinbners of the Jews or of the christians, simply because siners do not have the truth to justify beng followed, but the saints and prophets of God do have His truth and are thus worth following... one has to do without religion and tradition then, and follow the scripture alone... ... that menas overcoming what one has learned in life and reproving every belief to the scripture , something most men are not prepared to do, and it isolates one because most men will not do it, but follow one or other divided tradition of men... it ain't the easy option , but then God knows that too...

[nasa1]

You seem to have missed the whole point of the thread, it is neither Jews ,nor chsitains ,nor Palestinians who will make the Jews jealous, it is the pagnsed lost house of Israel, scripture IDENTIFIES them although they ceased to be a people three millenia ago , they are mentioned as one of only two nations forgiven in the new covenant with Israel ... but the Jews , the other nation derived of the House of Judah, never ceased to be a people and they hardly make each other jealous ... so we know that The House of Israel are the ones, and indeed Jesus was sent only to them for that very reason...



Why is he sent only to a nation which ceased to exist a millenium before he came ?



I have to disagree with you, because I believe the house of Israel is also Judah.
Do you belive the House of Israel are Gentiles, and do you have any scriptural proof to back that up?

NASA

[visionary]

it is the pagnsed lost house of Israel, scripture IDENTIFIES them although they ceased to be a people three millenia ago , they are mentioned as one of only two nations forgiven in the new covenant with Israel How do we recognise them? How would we know it is them? How will we kow they are Ephraim coming home, and making the Judains jealous. What Jealousy? Jealousy over the living faith, jealousy over the land, jealousy over what?

[muffler dragon]

That would be the royal 'we' then ? It is a big mistake to speak for others even if you think you know what they believe... let them speak for themselves ....

Judaism rejects the Christian testament as inspired Scripture. If this weren't the case; then you would see it in synagogues. That should "speak for" itself.

Do you not see that the tens of thousands of saints have something to say from God as well as the prophets?

As a former Christian, I can say with certainty that there is nothing original in the Christian testament that can't be found elsewhere. Therefore, no, I don't need to pay heed.

Do you not see that teh NT is based solely on the OT scriptures despite that the so-called 'christian' religion is not ?

That's a belief that MANY of us (Jews and Noachides) do not share with you.

A mistake then to throw out the baby with the bathwater.... reject religion by all means because it comes from sinners, but why reject the saints who simply re-iterate the Ot works of the prophets and offer further truths about the significance of the OT scroiptures ???

Because from this side of the fence, the Christian testament does NOT "simply re-iterate the Ot works of the prophets" nor does it "offer further truths". The Jewish Bible works just fine in an autonomous atmosphere in this regard.

[stranger]

How do we recognise them? How would we know it is them? How will we kow they are Ephraim coming home, and making the Judains jealous. What Jealousy? Jealousy over the living faith, jealousy over the land, jealousy over what?

God mentions only jealousy for Hiis 'wife' , the remnant of Israel , in scripture which is the beginning of 'Zion' , the kingdom of God led by Israel under the Messiah , based in New Jerusalem ....

Thus the jealousy of the Jews will be about Zion and the kingdom of God because God has baptised the House of Israel's remnant before many Jews to know His truth [John 16:13]

Thus the only things which can make a Jew jealous are excatly those things for which God is jealos that they come to know outside their current beliefs, the way of realisation of the OT prophesies of the Law and the Prophets , the significance af all the ritual that Jews hold dear ,made into a reality , no longer just symbols in ritual... the realisation of the love which is in Jewish hearts , something then worthy of jealousy for , the very means of the realisation of the Jewish belief in a Messiah who ushers in the kingdom as a ministry to the gentiles - to save them too once it is established ...the realisation of love for all men by the God of love through Israel ... in short what the scripture is all about... the Jews have to complete their knowledge just the same as everyone else does , it is the prospect of seeming gentiles having the knowledge to do so from God that will make the Jews jealous, only to find out that these are not gentiles after all, but the children of Israel through the House of Israel that served other gods in this world up to now , not Judaism...

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

[stranger]

How do we recognise them? How would we know it is them? How will we kow they are Ephraim coming home, and making the Judains jealous. What Jealousy? Jealousy over the living faith, jealousy over the land, jealousy over what?

It is not that hard, the Messiah has promised them all truth during this life [John 16:13] ... they thus know what the Jews want to know... for instance the identity of the Messiah and the future of Zion...

And they are saints, sealed from sin by God Hiimself [2 Timothy 2:19, Rev 7:3-4] , by His own spirit of truth [John 16:13]... these things one cannot hide or fake...

Just imagine what it will take to convince a Jew !! ;)

[stranger]

Judaism rejects the Christian testament as inspired Scripture. If this weren't the case; then you would see it in synagogues. That should "speak for" itself.


We have the witness of some Jews that this was preached in synagogues at one time.... but should one expect that to be so now?

I think not, since there are but 144,000 saints for all time in this earth , that is just around two thousand alive at any one time on average... not enough to sway more than a few Jews from their tradition , but then God requires only say a thousand saints to be Jews at any one time... that really isn't a lot even though it is just an approximation, the number cannot be that far from this, and there are millions upon millions of Jews that are not saints then in this earth...

As a former Christian, I can say with certainty that there is nothing original in the Christian testament that can't be found elsewhere. Therefore, no, I don't need to pay heed.

I can well understand rejecting christianity since it is true to neither OT nor NT , but if you realise that the Ht derives from the OT and says nothing new, then why reject it ?

That's a belief that MANY of us (Jews and Noachides) do not share with you.

I have no fixed beliefs except faith in love itself that will not leave me .... I simply find the scripture consistent with that faith in love and with my 'god' as being love ...thus I do not share every much with any religionist [believer in creeds]

Because from this side of the fence, the Christian testament does NOT "simply re-iterate the Ot works of the prophets" nor does it "offer further truths". The Jewish Bible works just fine in an autonomous atmosphere in this regard.

The NT is clearly not the 'christian testament' since it disproves all their creeds and dogmas... and was apparently written by Jewish saints about their Messiah ... you cannot reject it all since much of it is simply copied from the OT ...thus one would have to pare bits away which are simply derivations from the OT... In particular the new covenant is written by Jeremiah, so there is no reason to reject that and cling to the rather unfruitful old covenant which cannot even be all implemented without a temple, not least atonement to God!

The new covenantis in addition to the old and much of an easier way for the few who become saints in this life through it , but that is the point, God does not require all Israel to be saved now, any more than He needs any [true] gentiles saved now...

Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.