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nasa1
6th September 2007, 01:03 PM
John 14:6


Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.









John chapter 10

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
"But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.

"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

"When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.

"A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.

So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

"He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.

"He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,

even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

"No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again This commandment I received from My Father."








John chapter 5

If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is valid.
"You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. You diligently studythe Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

"I do not accept praise from men, but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?

"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

visionary
6th September 2007, 01:22 PM
Amen

A_Pioneer
6th September 2007, 09:40 PM
The Way is a description of Torah.
The Truth is descriptive of Torah.
The Life is gained by Torah.

Any strange wonder that Yeshua should say he was the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Jn. 5:24 Hear Torah, believe He who sent Torah, attain everlasting Life, plus by-passing judgement!

Also no one can know Torah unless God Calls him!
That is also in the NT.
That catch 22!

The only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the Ruach Haqodesh when he is sent to deliver the invitation to the Kingdom! Spiritual suicide!

Shalom

muffler dragon
6th September 2007, 10:06 PM
The Way is a description of Torah.
The Truth is descriptive of Torah.
The Life is gained by Torah.

Ever read Avi ben Mordechai?

A_Pioneer
6th September 2007, 10:26 PM
Ever read Avi ben Mordechai?I know the man, have heard him speak and seen him on GLC, the Host is always hawking the book, but I've never read any of them.
Got a reason for asking?
I have also seen Vendyl Jones and he is a big Noachide.
He hails from my old stompping grounds. He claims to be the only Gentile member of the IDF(1948), says he is colorblind and this make him able to detect camoflage.
No reason for askingor telling, except I felt like talking.:D

Shalon u'vracha

muffler dragon
6th September 2007, 10:52 PM
I know the man, have heard him speak and seen him on GLC, the Host is always hawking the book, but I've never read any of them.
Got a reason for asking?

It was in Avi's book that I first read the Torah = way/truth/life about 4-5 years ago.

I have also seen Vendyl Jones and he is a big Noachide.
He hails from my old stompping grounds. He claims to be the only Gentile member of the IDF(1948), says he is colorblind and this make him able to detect camoflage.
No reason for askingor telling, except I felt like talking.:D

Shalon u'vracha

I've also heard of Vendyl, but I have no affiliation with him.

nasa1
7th September 2007, 06:48 PM
The Way is a description of Torah.
The Truth is descriptive of Torah.
The Life is gained by Torah.

Any strange wonder that Yeshua should say he was the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Jn. 5:24 Hear Torah, believe He who sent Torah, attain everlasting Life, plus by-passing judgement!

Also no one can know Torah unless God Calls him!
That is also in the NT.
That catch 22!

The only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the Ruach Haqodesh when he is sent to deliver the invitation to the Kingdom! Spiritual suicide!

Shalom




The Torah and Jesus are two different things.


For one, Jesus said "My words will never pass away." But of the Torah He said it will be gone after heaven and earth are gone.

The Torah is not the Way.
The Torah is not the Life.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. The Torah is none of those things.

The Torah is the ministry of death. Jesus is the ministry of life.

nasa

muffler dragon
7th September 2007, 06:51 PM
The Torah is not the Way.
The Torah is not the Life.

Actually, the Tanakh shows otherwise. But I imagine you wouldn't know or accept that.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. The Torah is none of those things.

The Torah is the ministry of death. Jesus is the ministry of life.

nasa

I didn't figure you could keep the disguise up for long. It's back to Marcion-loving.

nasa1
7th September 2007, 06:55 PM
And you are talking like your father.


So, I am not surprised, either.


nasa

Wags
7th September 2007, 08:38 PM
The Torah is the ministry of death. Jesus is the ministry of life.

nasa

The Torah of ADONAI is perfect, restoring the inner person. The instruction of ADONAI is sure, making wise the thoughtless. (Psalms 19:7)

If a person will not listen to Torah, even his prayer is an abomination. (Proverbs 28:9)

ADONAI was pleased, for his righteousness' sake, to make the Torah great and glorious. (Isaiah 42:21)

The Son of Man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out of his Kingdom all the things that cause people to sin and all the people who are far from Torah (Matthew 13:41)

But this I do admit to you: I worship the God of our fathers in accordance with the Way (which they call a sect). I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets. (Acts 24:14)

For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God's sight. (Romans 2:13)


Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah. (Romans 3:31)


Therefore, what are we to say? That the Torah is sinful? Heaven forbid! (Romans 7:7)



All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living; (2 Timothy 3:16)

muffler dragon
8th September 2007, 01:33 AM
And you are talking like your father.

Actually, no, I'm not. My dad is a Christian.

So, I am not surprised, either.


nasa

Who said anything about being surprised. There's nothing you've ever said that has surprised me. You're not the first anti-semitic troll I've run into. Don't flatter yourself into thinking you're special.

simchat_torah
8th September 2007, 02:24 PM
You're not the first anti-semitic troll I've run into. Don't flatter yourself into thinking you're special.Nasa is not unique, these trolls are all over the intarwebz.

nasa1
8th September 2007, 05:29 PM
John 8:12

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"

"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

A_Pioneer
8th September 2007, 10:52 PM
The Torah and Jesus are two different things.


For one, Jesus said "My words will never pass away." But of the Torah He said it will be gone after heaven and earth are gone.

The Torah is not the Way.
The Torah is not the Life.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. The Torah is none of those things.

The Torah is the ministry of death. Jesus is the ministry of life.

nasa
My tender young sprout! Just where did Torah come from?
Doesn't John say that the Word created all things that were made?
I am sorry to inform you that the Alpha and the Omega does not change.
Mt 4:4 &De 8:3 Say man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God!

You are an ADDER, because there is no verse in any legitimate bible that says the Torah will pass away and or even nailed to the cross.
The Torah is the word of God! Even you say that Yeshua is the word of God! So by your defination Yeshua at the end of the age will pass away! What folly.
Y H V H made Yeshua as He is at Yeshua's resurrection, Yeshua is now like God Eternal! So the torah nor Yeshua will in any way pass away ever. As you were told that the Torah of God is "Perfect" Yeshua lived Torah "Perfect" and told you to be "Perfect"! Well are you living by the Torah? If not you are not even near "Perfect"!

You came to this forum with your Jesus chip on your shoulder and begged someone to knock it off, then you complain about being hit! Go home baby! Have mother kiss it and make it all well.

Shalom

christinepro
8th September 2007, 11:23 PM
John 8:12

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"

"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.
People who are against the Torah, I don't get. They say you should tithe because the preacher says so. You can't drink because the preacher says so and of course don't listen to rock and roll music because the preacher says so. As for myself I want meat not milk and want to live according to the word. Not what some preacher says. I want the whole thing. Not a cut and paste Bible.

ChazakEmunah
9th September 2007, 09:36 AM
If a person will not listen to Torah, even his prayer is an abomination.

I don't think I could say anything better than this.