Yonah and the Dag/Dagah

[ChavaK]

While preparaing for Yom Kippur, I decided to study
the book of Yonah. If you read only the English, you
miss many of the subtleties of the text.
While reading, I noticed that in 2:1-11 the fish
is three times called "dag" (male fish) and once
"dagah" (female fish).
In 2:1 it is dag gadol (male) and hadag (male).
2:2 hadagah (female) and in 2:11 back
to male (l'dag)
Now given that every word in the Torah has
great meaning, and that if the text switches
like this there is also (hidden) meaning, why
do you think in one instance the fish is identified
as female?
I asked one of the kollel rebbetzins who gave me
a very mystical answer...but I am interested if
anyone else can come up with another explanation...

[TheRabbi]

The Rabbis have various speculations about why the terms are switched. However, Dagah is merely a general term for all species of fish. Just like all cattle are called Behemot regardless of whether they are male or female.

When the Torah makes such a switch, we know it is for a reason and we must explain it. The prophets are not on the same level and are not necessarily expounded upon in the same manner. Not even all the prophets are on the same level. Yonah in particular is a story about what happened to a prophet, not to be compared with an Ezekiel which is primarily comprised of the word of God ("Thus sayeth" type stuff).

[stone]

While preparaing for Yom Kippur, I decided to study
the book of Yonah. If you read only the English, you
miss many of the subtleties of the text.
While reading, I noticed that in 2:1-11 the fish
is three times called "dag" (male fish) and once
"dagah" (female fish).
In 2:1 it is dag gadol (male) and hadag (male).
2:2 hadagah (female) and in 2:11 back
to male (l'dag)
Now given that every word in the Torah has
great meaning, and that if the text switches
like this there is also (hidden) meaning, why
do you think in one instance the fish is identified
as female?
I asked one of the kollel rebbetzins who gave me
a very mystical answer...but I am interested if
anyone else can come up with another explanation...

I was told once (in a dream) that g-d doesn't see the differences between male and female that we do. I'm still unsure of what exactly that means, but in time the meaning of it will come.

Now i'm curious of this story.

[debi b]

Me thinks I will have to think on it :scratch: :)

[Steve Petersen]

An interesting aside: I believe that one of the deities of the Phoenecians was Dagon, a fish-god.

[stone]

I found that, its believed one fish spit out Yonah and another swallowed him again. Is this written in the story of being spit out and re-swallowed again?

[ChavaK]

I found that, its believed one fish spit out Yonah and another swallowed him again. Is this written in the story of being spit out and re-swallowed again?

I will let you know what the rebbetzin told me when I have more time to write- but it involves the leviathan,
nefesh, gehannim,gilgul and the death of the body for
three days.....and it does involve being spit out of
one fish for another....

[ChavaK]

However, Dagah is merely a general term for all species of fish. Just like all cattle are called Behemot regardless of whether they are male or female.

However, it has the prefix "ha" attached to it in the
story of Yonah....

When the Torah makes such a switch, we know it is for a reason and we must explain it. The prophets are not on the same level and are not necessarily expounded upon in the same manner. Not even all the prophets are on the same level. Yonah in particular is a story about what happened to a prophet, not to be compared with an Ezekiel which is primarily comprised of the word of God ("Thus sayeth" type stuff).
Interesting....the rebbetzin had quite a different take
on things....

[Talmidah]

I am familiar with the midrash of course where Yonah was spit out of the dag and swallowed up by the pregnant Dagah, and his subsequent tshuvah. But I'm very interested in what the rebbetzin had to say!

[ChazakEmunah]

I am familiar with the midrash of course where Yonah was spit out of the dag and swallowed up by the pregnant Dagah, and his subsequent tshuvah. But I'm very interested in what the rebbetzin had to say!
Me too!

[TheRabbi]

However, it has the prefix "ha" attached to it in the
story of Yonah....


This has no effect on the masculinity or femininity of the animal whatsoever. HaBehemah HaTehorah is femenine and also has the definite article attached to it. However, it could be denote either a male or female. Hebrew has many quirks like this.

[ChavaK]

This has no effect on the masculinity or femininity of the animal whatsoever.

Of course not....my point was the ha makes it a
definite article, a particular fish...that I don't see
how it could then be defined as general term
for all species of fish.....

[TheRabbi]

Sure, Dagah simply means fish. Hadagah means "the fish" it doesn't indicate what kind or what gender. Just like Habehema doesn't tell us whether it is a sheep, a cow a male or a female. I can say "And he shall bring Habehema Hatehorah and offer it upon the mizbeach." It could be a goat, a sheep, a cow, a male or a female. It's just a general term like Hadagah.

[Torah613]

I would say it is because when a Jew makes Tshuvah, he becomes a new creature. There are stories of the Baal Shem Tov having particularly hardened individuals go so far as to select a new name after their Tshuvah.

Thus the Tenach gives us a very clear indication of this mystical rebirth, as a newly recommitted Jew, as a Ba'al Tshuvah if you will. The Tshuvah could not be complete without Yonah coming out of a womb.

At least that's this country bumpkins take on the matter.

Yochanan