Moderating Style

[probinson]

This thread is to discuss our style of moderation. I am interested in finding out how others feel we should be moderating.

I have the belief that we are all adults here, and we should be able to disagree on something, even strongly, without requiring staff intervention.

For example, there was a report in the SF forum where someone called another's beliefs "nonsense", and we were discussing an RFE for this. IMHO, I believe this is very heavy-handed moderating. If you want to call my beliefs nonsense, that's your opinion, your prerogative, and IMHO, you should be free to say so without censorship from the staff.

I believe that RFE's and staff edits should be used only in extreme or repeated circumstances, or egregious offenses.

In short, I sometimes feel like the report forum turns into "adult day care", where we border on censoring people's views because someone's feelings got hurt, or because someone else doesn't agree with the post. I actually had a report yesterday where someone said "he started it!"

These are just some of my thoughts. I'm being very candid here, and I ask you to do the same. I'm not trying to come down on anyone, and I don't have any one instance in mind. I just want to have an open discussion about how we moderate.

I'm for less strict interpretation of the rules and more grace.

What say you?

[Tishri1]

:clap::clap::clap::clap:I agree I have issues with folks who say we dont up hold the rules, but there is a difference between upholding the rules and babysitting threads and then others turn on us for being heavy handed and thats not what we are about either

remember when the buzz word for moderation was "mod from the middle" have we lost track of that important point:wave:

[pdudgeon]

i look at it like making gravy. ;)

i want my gravy smooth and without lumps if possible.
the bigger, hard lumps i will remove because a person could choke on them, and the smaller lumps can be mashed up so they blend in. the smaller the lump the less needs to be done to it.

however when we get members complaining that the gravy is lumpy and asking that something be done, then we've let too many lumps get thru the gravy-making process.:wave:

this is now a member-driven board and as staff we are here to serve their needs. to help us do that we have rules created by the members which express their wishes on what they want to see on the board, and what they don't want to see.
So modding is not so much about what 'we' think is against the rules as staff. that's the old way of modding pre 07/07/2007, where a member signed up and had to agree to obey rules they had no say in, enforced by a staff they did not choose.

As a result of that 360 degree change in course mods will now be voted in by the members and have a mandate to carry out the member's wishes. i think we might see conflicts arising among senior and junior staff in how reports are actioned, simply because of the difference between the old and the new systems.

Any time you combine staff from two different operating systems together, you will have problems that need to be ironed out.

[LilLamb219]

When I receive a report, I look at it to see if there is something very obvious in the way of rules broken. If there is nothing, I subscribe to the thread and wait for input from another mod or member of that forum. I don't think everyone should do that, but for me, it gives me time to ponder what was reported and come back later and try to look at it again to see if I missed something the first time. Having input from others helps me to see how they're viewing it as well because there are times when I don't see a flame until it is explained (partly because of how we have some differing beliefs).

In TCL I'm a P/A type of mod, but in the MJ forum I'm more of a referee...or sometimes just a confused person praying for more help ;)

[probinson]

While I understand that we are now a member-driven site and we serve their needs, this does not give us the right to censor views based on a single member's input.

The United States is a government, "for the people, by the people", and yet I can not walk up to city hall and expect that something be done about a particular issue, simply because I don't like it.

A report is generated by a single member. One. Occasionally, we do have other people that come and chime in on the reports, but generally, it is one person reporting another. This is rarely, if ever, representative of the membership as a whole, and is likely in most cases not indicative of the membership consensus on how the report should be handled.

I agree that the forum is to now be driven by the members, so perhaps this question is better asked in each congregational forum; "How strict/lenient should moderators be when enforcing rules?"

There must be an agreed upon baseline by a consensus of the membership on this beforehand so that the rules can be applied equally to all members, regardless of a single individual's opinion.

To go back to the gravy analogy, what you may think is a "lump" perhaps I may see as just the right consistency. The same can be said of our members. Not everyone is going to agree, but we need to have a consensus on how heavy-handed or easy-going the membership of our forums would like us to be in our application of the rules.

[flaglady]

a confused person praying for more helpOh brother, can I ever relate to that! Sometimes I just really want to post in a report something like

Oh for goodness' sake you all - GROW UP!!There - I said it now. Phew! That feels soo much better!




But as for this thread - to be sensible for a moment - I was always for the grace. Never edit, RFE or delete if you can possibly avoid it. Some level of argument has got to be permitted.

But when you get folk being castigated for using expressions like "anal retentive" that really is beyond the pale.

And they used to call us the Forum Gestapo! I tell you, some of these forum mods, being so beholden to the members that voted them in, are going to be ten times worse!

[Tishri1]

I agree I think if a report is obviously breaking the forums rules then its a given, that we address it.... but if the interpretation of those rules varies, or if the rule was not intended to be enforced that way, or if the members can work this one out in the thread very easily and with more understanding than slapping a hand, then IMO we should be Adults and let them work it out in the thread.....On the other hand if we have a person who's sole mission is to come in and upset the apple cart and cause everyones experience in the forum to be one that would drive a body to drink:P, those are definitely posts that need reporting and dealt with.....

IMO a team with varying personalities will get most of these reports done right first time through, and should there be some gray ones that they need help with, grabbing a few other SMods AND members in there to help out would seem reasonable to me:thumbsup:.....

IMO it may take the forum time to get use to watching us work and realistically its only been 2 months for them to see us in action and not all the members even go to the reports

Oh yeh and I bet many of them are relieved to see we arent the bullies they thought we were:):amen:

[LilLamb219]

Oh yeh and I bet many of them are relieved to see we arent the bullies they thought we were:):amen:

I think some of them may be realizing that it's sometimes the members and their serial reporting and pushing for action ...and not us being bullies :thumbsup:

[Jim47]

This thread is to discuss our style of moderation. I am interested in finding out how others feel we should be moderating.

I have the belief that we are all adults here, and we should be able to disagree on something, even strongly, without requiring staff intervention.

For example, there was a report in the SF forum where someone called another's beliefs "nonsense", and we were discussing an RFE for this. IMHO, I believe this is very heavy-handed moderating. If you want to call my beliefs nonsense, that's your opinion, your prerogative, and IMHO, you should be free to say so without censorship from the staff.

I believe that RFE's and staff edits should be used only in extreme or repeated circumstances, or egregious offenses.

In short, I sometimes feel like the report forum turns into "adult day care", where we border on censoring people's views because someone's feelings got hurt, or because someone else doesn't agree with the post. I actually had a report yesterday where someone said "he started it!"

These are just some of my thoughts. I'm being very candid here, and I ask you to do the same. I'm not trying to come down on anyone, and I don't have any one instance in mind. I just want to have an open discussion about how we moderate.

I'm for less strict interpretation of the rules and more grace.

What say you?


Pete, I want to thank you for your 2 good posts here. You do exactly as I do.

Since the 7/7 reforms things have gotten way out of hand with reporting. Its as though we are a bunch of little school kids and aren't allowed to differing opinions on things and can be more mature and over look minor infractions or things said not in agreement. I have seen countless reports made by people who reported for no other reason then to have the others voice silensed. That is big time censorship just as is about 90% of the reports made now.

In addistion we have new forum mods that are brought on and they have this inerrant dedication to the members who elected them and because of their dedication they mod by feel instead of by the rules that are given to us. These new mods need a lot more training then we are giving them. It used to be that a mod was on full probation for a minimum 2-3 monthes and this was after they passed their mod tools test and initial protocal test.

As much as I like having new staff on borard we really need to concentrate more on giving them hands on training. I know Tishri has been implementing this for a few weeks already and I know it helps bunches.

This is indeed a very good thread for discussion and hopefully improvement of all.

[Tishri1]

well we still do have the 3 month probation but maybe its not being seen in the right wiki or maybe its still needing to be snapshotted;)....we can deal with that though later:thumbsup:(I know I have it somewhere;))

But yes I am in favor of ALL seasoned mods(3 months + on staff) training these new mods in the forums giving them explanations and very clear direction for moding, for the first 3 months they are on the team....

EVERY report that isnt to hard (you know what those hard cases are;)) Should be dirrected to a trainee and explained so they can understand and can be actioned or worked by the trainee as long as they are trained in the use of the tools and have read the training material first...(Lets get a second by Jo as well ok since she coordinates this for us now:hug:).BUT its up to us to be clear EVERY time we ask them to do something and to follow up with them checking their work and kindly guiding them through every report....

When every new report comes up the line think about asking a trainee to do something in it and give them step by step instructions what to do and explain the rules and discuss what you see wrong in the report(what rules were violated ect)so they can get a feel for how to do this right from the start..it also helps the members who are watching understand the process better too.....I have a mod being trained that way right now and she is learning faster and feels more confident than ever and all my staff in her forum are helping out and she is getting a better feel for them and their style of modding and them for her as well, it is building team unity


OK that was totally off topic but it kinda helps these new mods learn the rules and how to mod if they are learning hands on from all the experienced mods around them

my $.02:hug:

[JAS4Yeshua]

As one of the "new mods" on staff, I thought I would offer my opinion on matters. I had spoken with Pete about this to some extent yesterday via IM.

I completely agree with Pete's posts, and with Jo's comment about growing up. Since Ive been working the reports (even when I was commenting on them before coming on staff) I see a lot what I consider to be petty reports. Yes they violate the rules, but only minorly, and grace definately could be shown in those circumstances.

Unfortunately, as was stated, this is member driven, and the members have made the rules they want enforced. In the interest of fairness, I look at the report and if it does violate the rules, then I state such. I want to say more, but don't want to add trouble to an already reported situation. That, and the fact that we can't go to the reporter and say "Can't you show a little grace here and work it out" adds to the difficulty.

[Lisa0315]

Subscribing

[LilLamb219]

That, and the fact that we can't go to the reporter and say "Can't you show a little grace here and work it out" adds to the difficulty.

In a way, we can. In the report itself we can state outright that we think it might have been better to not have reported but to work it out in the thread to show others Christian love...and to help educate others with the differences in beliefs. Wording is important because it's easy to take things the wrong way online.

[LilLamb219]

Subscribing

Here's a neat tip for you...you can go up to Thread Tools and select Subscribe to Thread...that way you can anonymously subscribe to the threads...if you like :) You don't have to though.

[Rochir]

I do like to see shades of grey. Yes, the rules are importnat and should always be our guidelines, but even within the strictest rule, there at times in room for interpretation and grace.

I hope I can be more of a moderator and peace keeper (yes, hard to imagine after my initial impact here *smirk*) giving room and justice to all members who will come to WWMC where I will help out. I am not for excluding anyone. I am for giving visitors to my forum freedom to express their opinions and believes, and long as it is done politely and within the few restrictions we in WWMC have.

But I'll have to see how things go with time. I just know, to simply go by black and white will leave many people by the way side when it comes to justice and fairness.

Am I wrong to think like that?

[flaglady]

Sounds good to me, Rochir.

[Jim47]

I do like to see shades of grey. Yes, the rules are importnat and should always be our guidelines, but even within the strictest rule, there at times in room for interpretation and grace.

I hope I can be more of a moderator and peace keeper (yes, hard to imagine after my initial impact here *smirk*) giving room and justice to all members who will come to WWMC where I will help out. I am not for excluding anyone. I am for giving visitors to my forum freedom to express their opinions and believes, and long as it is done politely and within the few restrictions we in WWMC have.

But I'll have to see how things go with time. I just know, to simply go by black and white will leave many people by the way side when it comes to justice and fairness.

Am I wrong to think like that?


You are quite right Rochir and you worded that most bestest ;)

[longhair75]

As I see it, the most difficult thing to do is to let go of your opinion of the topic and/or the poster and moderate from an unbiased postion. We owe our members fairness and consistency above all. We lose all credibility when we take sides in a dispute.

That being said, I am sure glad sometimes that we are not doing all of this face to face. I have read disputes that would quickly progress into a fist fight if the posters were in the same room.

[flaglady]

very well said there, brother

[pdudgeon]

To go back to the gravy analogy, what you may think is a "lump" perhaps I may see as just the right consistency. The same can be said of our members. Not everyone is going to agree, but we need to have a consensus on how heavy-handed or easy-going the membership of our forums would like us to be in our application of the rules.

very true! in many ways you and I are usually the bookends of the spectrum in our moderating style, as history has proven. but i would submit to you that not many people are willing to subsist on lumpy gravy.

[Rochir]

You are quite Rochir and you worded that most bestest ;)

BLAST my typos and omissions!:cry:...Heh! ;)

[Jim47]

BLAST my typos and omissions!:cry:...Heh! ;)


You'll get used to me , I make lots and lots of typos and ommissions, and its only going to get worse ;)

[Tishri1]

is that a promise Jimmy :P^_^:hug:

[Jim47]

is that a promise Jimmy :P^_^:hug:


Everything gets worse when you get older, including your memory, by the way, Who are you? :P

[edb19]

That, and the fact that we can't go to the reporter and say "Can't you show a little grace here and work it out" adds to the difficulty.

In a sense we can - nothing wrong with a mod hat post reminding all posters that we're to be the salt, that we're expected to show grace to our brothers and sisters in Christ. It isn't accusatory or directed to one person that way - it's just a reminder. Plus it has the added benefit of letting the members know that the thread has been looked at.

edie

[Rochir]

In a sense we can - nothing wrong with a mod hat post reminding all posters that we're to be the salt, that we're expected to show grace to our brothers and sisters in Christ. It isn't accusatory or directed to one person that way - it's just a reminder. Plus it has the added benefit of letting the members know that the thread has been looked at.

edie


Great idea!:thumbsup: