Pan Orthodox

[JM]

Violation of TCL's forum specific rules

[LilLamb219]

That's right, come hear those who have defected and maybe you'll be enticed to join them as well. Groan. :sick:

[DaRev]

Doesn't this thread violate our "no proselytizing" rule?

[LilLamb219]

We should ask the OP what his intention was in posting this.

JM, did you have a specific reason as to why you posted this?

[DaRev]

I think the intention is obvious.

[DaSeminarian]

I think we should close this thread due to the nature of the OP.

[PreachersWife2004]

okay, I'm sorry. I giggled at the Most and Very in front of some of those titles.

[Jenna]

Eh...Whatever! *shrugs* I'm in the general area, but why would I want to go to a convention on the Orthodox Church? I'm sure that it *could* be informative, but to what end? :scratch:

[PreachersWife2004]

I live about ten minutes away from where this is being held, and I still don't plan on going.

And I'm still laughing at the Most and Very. My husband, as a joke, sometimes signs my cards "The Very Right and Most Reverent Reverend" amongst other titles.

[Qoheleth]

I live about ten minutes away from where this is being held, and I still don't plan on going.


I live 30 minutes away...I am a former Lutheran...I am now Orthodox and Im not sure Im going either.


The benefit of this may be to discover what many do not understand about Orthodoxy as it relates to Lutherans, because there is so much misinformation and disinformation out there that it is sometimes unbelievable.

Other than that, I can see why many would believe this to be nothing more than attempt at sheep stealing.

Q

[AngCath]

As neither an Eastern Orthodox or a Lutheran, the part of it that sticks out to me is the "For Lutherans". If it was to be truly just an informative gathering, it should be titled a little different.

[DaRev]

As neither an Eastern Orthodox or a Lutheran, the part of it that sticks out to me is the "For Lutherans". If it was to be truly just an informative gathering, it should be titled a little different.

Which is precisely why it violates our rules against proselytizing.

[IowaLutheran]

And I'm still laughing at the Most and Very. My husband, as a joke, sometimes signs my cards "The Very Right and Most Reverent Reverend" amongst other titles.

You might get a kick out of this website - I think I posted the link on the Anglican forum before - you can get your very own peculiar aristocratic title here:

http://www.masquerademaskarts.com/memes/yourtitle.php

Here's mine:
The Right Reverend Jay the Indefensible of Giggleswich Lanken

[IowaLutheran]

As neither an Eastern Orthodox or a Lutheran, the part of it that sticks out to me is the "For Lutherans". If it was to be truly just an informative gathering, it should be titled a little different.

They did one of these programs for Anglicans awhile back:

http://ancientfaithradio.com/specials/faithoffathers/

[AngCath]

They did one of these programs for Anglicans awhile back:

http://ancientfaithradio.com/specials/faithoffathers/
how nice of them to include us as well ;)

[Jim47]

Just so you all know, the OP has been reported

[LilLamb219]

I'd still like to hear the OP's reason for posting...trying to give the benefit of the doubt and a chance to explain.

[Protoevangel]

As neither an Eastern Orthodox or a Lutheran, the part of it that sticks out to me is the "For Lutherans". If it was to be truly just an informative gathering, it should be titled a little different.
They did one of these programs for Anglicans awhile back:

http://ancientfaithradio.com/specials/faithoffathers/
Yes, I listened to all of the recordings for this. It was primarily a forum for disseminating information, for those interested, and not so much for proselytizing. There was no "we are better because of ..." or "You are wrong because..." The purpose, as I understand it, for focusing one one group at a time, is that each group uses slightly different language, and the common language used is often used differently. It is an attempt to minimize miscommunication and confusion.

I am sorry that this comes across as proselytizing. JM is a Baptist (self-described as "old school calvinist"), though, and not an Orthodox... And I have very rarely seen someone proselytize for a group they do not belong to.

But if you close the thread, I understand.

[Confess]

That's right, come hear those who have defected and maybe you'll be enticed to join them as well. Groan. :sick:
I don't get the reps. I haven't given any to you in a long while and it won't allow me to!

Edit:
I have listened to 2 of these former Lutheran pastors explain their leaving. None of their answers were founded in sound doctrine. Being sinful as we are, we desire works to be apart of our faith and that is something that they always cover up when the speak to Lutherans.

[Protoevangel]

Edit:
I have listened to 2 of these former Lutheran pastors explain their leaving. None of their answers were founded in sound doctrine. Being sinful as we are, we desire works to be apart of our faith and that is something that they always cover up when the speak to Lutherans.
That would be a great question/comment to bring up at the colloquium. ;)

[PreachersWife2004]

You might get a kick out of this website - I think I posted the link on the Anglican forum before - you can get your very own peculiar aristocratic title here:

http://www.masquerademaskarts.com/memes/yourtitle.php

Here's mine:
The Right Reverend Jay the Indefensible of Giggleswich Lanken

Mine is:
Most Noble and Honourable the Unhyphenated of Goosnargh on the Carpet


Which kinda makes sense as I hate hypens, too.
Does that make me hyphenist?

[ByzantineDixie]

I am sorry that this comes across as proselytizing. JM is a Baptist (self-described as "old school calvinist"), though, and not an Orthodox... And I have very rarely seen someone proselytize for a group they do not belong to.


Yes, I am guessing JM posted it not to promote it but to make the Lutherans aware of it...more like a warning...because I have read recent posts of JM and he has indicated he doesn't see why people become Orthodox. I doubt he is trying to get Lutherans to convert...unless y'all ticked him off???? ;)

There is an outside chance that I might go to this...if there is an opening. I won't know until the very last minute though. I did comment somewhere that had it been in San Juan in January...that would have sealed the deal for me...but Detroit in September? That's the more ascetic choice! :D

[PreachersWife2004]

My goodness. Just how many of you are in the Detroit area?

[ByzantineDixie]

My goodness. Just how many of you are in the Detroit area?

Oh I am not in the Detroit area...I just have some airline miles I could use and there are a few of the speakers I would love to hear in person. I'm in the South.

[DaSeminarian]

. I doubt he is trying to get Lutherans to convert...unless y'all ticked him off???? ;)




Would we do anything like that? I mean on purpose. ;)

[RadMan]

Yes, I am guessing JM posted it not to promote it but to make the Lutherans aware of it...more like a warning...because I have read recent posts of JM and he has indicated he doesn't see why people become Orthodox. I doubt he is trying to get Lutherans to convert...unless y'all ticked him off???? ;)

There is an outside chance that I might go to this...if there is an opening. I won't know until the very last minute though. I did comment somewhere that had it been in San Juan in January...that would have sealed the deal for me...but Detroit in September? That's the more ascetic choice! :DI've always wondered why/what is the possible connection between Bonhoefer and Orthodoxy since they seem to have headed in the same direction. Basically "Faith without works is DEAD". Bonheofer was Lutheran at the time of Hitler and pleaded for a faith that wasn't dead and as everyone knows, "cheap grace".

Also makes you wonder if his ideas weren't instrumental in some of our Pastors going east?

[DaSeminarian]

I've always wondered why/what is the possible connection between Bonhoefer and Orthodoxy since they seem to have headed in the same direction. Basically "Faith without works is DEAD". Bonheofer was Lutheran at the time of Hitler and pleaded for a faith that wasn't dead and as everyone knows, "cheap grace".

Though I have not read Bonhoeffer extensively, I think that he probably saw a lot of people looking for this cheap grace. Especially in Nazi Germany. Look what Hitler did to Luther's stuff. He propagandized it and made Luther out to be just as bad as he was. I don't think that Luther and Hitler should ever be put in the same category and yet so many people do stick them together because of that one treatise of Luther's.

I think that Bonhoeffer saw people going to church and then not living their faith in everyday life. This upset him.

[ByzantineDixie]

I've always wondered why/what is the possible connection between Bonhoefer and Orthodoxy since they seem to have headed in the same direction. Basically "Faith without works is DEAD". Bonheofer was Lutheran at the time of Hitler and pleaded for a faith that wasn't dead and as everyone knows, "cheap grace".

Also makes you wonder if his ideas weren't instrumental in some of our Pastors going east?

You know, Rad, I don't know. When I was Lutheran I thought that Bonhoeffer's involvement in the assassination attempt on Hitler was flat out wrong...that thing where Lutherans are taught to submit to authority. As an Orthodox and with their respect for all living things...again...I don't know that the Orthodox would agree with the assassination attempt either...but maybe in that lesser of two evils way. I should ask over at TAW.

As far as works and faith...I don't know if Bonhoeffer was becoming more Orthodox in his thinking or if he was becoming more pietistic Lutheran. I never read much Bonhoeffer because of that whole assassination thing--so I just don't know.

[RadMan]

You know, Rad, I don't know. When I was Lutheran I thought that Bonhoeffer's involvement in the assassination attempt on Hitler was flat out wrong...that thing where Lutherans are taught to submit to authority. As an Orthodox and with their respect for all living things...again...I don't know that the Orthodox would agree with the assassination attempt either...but maybe in that lesser of two evils way. I should ask over at TAW.

As far as works and faith...I don't know if Bonhoeffer was becoming more Orthodox in his thinking or if he was becoming more pietistic Lutheran. I never read much Bonhoeffer because of that whole assassination thing--so I just don't know.I considered him pieisstic Lutheran too until I keep reading that he didn't foster legalism. At least that was my impression.

I, as Bonhoefer, have the same impression that there is something missing from Lutheranism. Maybe it's the radicalism of Luther and Walther. I don't feel the fire and passion these men had and has been lost over the centuries. It's more like a "Que sera sera"

[JM]

ByzantineDixie is correct.

It was an FYI post and wasn't meant to stir Lutherans into some kind of mass exodus. I couldn't help but notice that many of the recent threads I read here in the Lutheran forum included some reference to the Eastern Orthodox Church and I was digging into, what seems to be a Lutheran obsession with the Orthodox, with that Church.

Lutheran soteriology is Biblical and I can't for the life of me understand why a Lutheran would convert.

j

[PreachersWife2004]

From what I've read lately, it seems it's the opposite way around: the Orthodoxes (what IS the plural of Orthodox?) are obsessed with the Lutherans.

[JM]

That maybe so...

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

ByzantineDixie is correct.

It was an FYI post and wasn't meant to stir Lutherans into some kind of mass exodus. I couldn't help but notice that many of the recent threads I read here in the Lutheran forum included some reference to the Eastern Orthodox Church and I was digging into, what seems to be a Lutheran obsession with the Orthodox, with that Church.

Lutheran soteriology is Biblical and I can't for the life of me understand why a Lutheran would convert.

j

A lot of people in here are just angry about Orthodoxy in general, for a variety of reasons.

I, for one, love the Orthodox faith, but would not convert because its soteriology denies certain basic biblical truth, namely faith alone, grace alone, forensic justification, and double imputation (although as has been very clear I do believe Scripture and even the Lutheran confessions teach mongeristic theosis).

[DaRev]

(what IS the plural of Orthodox?)

ORTHODI... ?

^_^

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Orthodox. (Although, ha, I want DaRev's answer to be right)

[KEPLER]

.

[KEPLER]

.

[C.F.W. Walther]

A lot of people in here are just angry about Orthodoxy in general, for a variety of reasons.

I, for one, love the Orthodox faith, but would not convert because its soteriology denies certain basic biblical truth, namely faith alone, grace alone, forensic justification, and double imputation (although as has been very clear I do believe Scripture and even the Lutheran confessions teach mongeristic theosis).
Them are such big words....my my. :yawn:

[PreachersWife2004]

Thank you, Kepler. <3

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Them are such big words....my my. :yawn:
Funny. They're all in the confessions...

[C.F.W. Walther]

Funny. They're all in the confessions...
It's just that you put them all in one short paragraph. Kinda overwhelming.

[DaRev]

The word "theosis" is in the Confessions? Could you point it out to me?

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

The word "theosis" is in the Confessions? Could you point it out to me?
I didn't consider that a big word. Just three syllables.

Anyway, all the concepts are in the confessions, and I just use them as shorthand to make my already-long posts shorter.

[C.F.W. Walther]

I didn't consider that a big word. Just three syllables.

Anyway, all the concepts are in the confessions, and I just use them as shorthand to make my already-long posts shorter.
Succint is good but you're not sitting around the "round table" and we're not all seminarians. You could reach more people speaking in lay language like all our pastors and seminarinas do on this site.

[DaSeminarian]

Succint is good but you're not sitting around the "round table" and we're not all seminarians. You could reach more people speaking in lay language like all our pastors and seminarinas do on this site.


Yeah! You tell 'em CFW. You Walther's sure do age nicely. Not bad for a guy who has been dead for over 120 years. ;) Happy B'day.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Yeah! You tell 'em CFW. You Walther's sure do age nicely. Not bad for a guy who has been dead for over 120 years. ;) Happy B'day.LOL :) Maybe it was drinking too much preservatives when I was younger.

[BigNorsk]

Wow, I listened to a few of the talks they gave in their Anglican conference. I thought Lutherans were bad to be locked into very specific language. The talks were a string of long words and special phrases. And the foundation wasn't is it biblical, it was did some other person use it that way.

It's really not grammatical historical hermaneutics at all, it seemed just a subset of historical critical interpretation. Now it wouldn't be a big deal if they were simply studying history, but they aren't, they are taking the meaning of that bible from that history, their understanding of sacred Tradition.

Marv

[Qoheleth]

It's really not grammatical historical hermaneutics at all, it seemed just a subset of historical critical interpretation. Now it wouldn't be a big deal if they were simply studying history, but they aren't, they are taking the meaning of that bible from that history, their understanding of sacred Tradition.


Youre right! The Colloquium was not an exercise in biblical interpretation in that weve got it right...here is where you are wrong.

Anglicans are steeped in tradition and have a historic episcopacy, the talks given were to address this common ground and further the understanding of this nature of the Church and others journey to it and all that that entails.

But again, it was not intended to be a bible study.



Q

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Youre right! The Colloquium was not an exercise in biblical interpretation in that weve got it right...here is where you are wrong.

Anglicans are steeped in tradition and have a historic episcopacy, the talks given were to address this common ground and further the understanding of this nature of the Church and others journey to it and all that that entails.

But again, it was not intended to be a bible study.



Q
Don't be silly. Any time Christians get together for religious purposes, it must be a Bible study.

(Yes, I do cry crypto-Calvinism and Pietism a lot)

Anyway, Walter, my intent is not to show of my own ability with words. It's merely how I think of the concepts (when I think of the crediting of our sins to Christ and of Christ's righteousness to us, I just automatically think 'double imputation'). My apologies if it seems arrogant to you.

[Qoheleth]

Don't be silly. Any time Christians get together for religious purposes, it must be a Bible study.

(Yes, I do cry crypto-Calvinism and Pietism a lot)

Anyway, Walter, my intent is not to show of my own ability with words. It's merely how I think of the concepts (when I think of the crediting of our sins to Christ and of Christ's righteousness to us, I just automatically think 'double imputation'). My apologies if it seems arrogant to you.


Ok


Q

[ByzantineDixie]

As an Orthodox and with their respect for all living things...again...I don't know that the Orthodox would agree with the assassination attempt either...but maybe in that lesser of two evils way. I should ask over at TAW.


Hey Rad, I started a thread (http://foru.ms/t5984702-an-orthodox-perspective-on-bonhoeffer.html)on the Orthodox view of Bonhoeffer's involvement in the assassination attempt of Hitler...just in case you are interested. :wave:

[JimfromOhio]

Bonheoffer is one of my favorite authors and I do agree that he did forget his own quote "God has reserved to Himself the right to determine the end of life, because He alone knows the goal to which it is His will to lead it. It is for Him alone to justify a life or to cast it away."

During the time of Hitler, Bonhoeffer was being force to sign with Hitler's view of Christian church which of course he refused which lead to Bonhoeffer's plan to disobey Hitler and eventually that disobedient got himself hanged. He was one central figure in the Protestant church struggle against Nazism. He was hanged in the Nazi concentration camp at Flossenbürg on April 9, 1945. Sometimes it is really hard to figure out what to do. To many people, Hitler was probably the most evil government leader this world ever had.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Hey Rad, I started a thread (http://foru.ms/t5984702-an-orthodox-perspective-on-bonhoeffer.html)on the Orthodox view of Bonhoeffer's involvement in the assassination attempt of Hitler...just in case you are interested. :wave:Hey Rose I was gone past 2 days. I'll take a look. :)

[Orion567]

Wow, Theosis, Soteriology, Pietism, Crypto-Calvinism? Do we still use those words even today? :confused:

I have not lived in California for about 4 years now and I guess I just miss hearing them from the laity. Out here in the backwoods we use simple words like 'saved' 'study of God' and 'Jesus freak' :P

[Xpycoctomos]

that was an intense thread... so, can anyone PM me the date, time and place of this controversial meeting?

[Protoevangel]

that was an intense thread... so, can anyone PM me the date, time and place of this controversial meeting?
Done

[Xpycoctomos]

danke freund.

Read it... during work.. and that would be awesome except... I have a mortgage to pay so I have to work!!! lol

[DaSeminarian]

Dix,

I read a few of the posts and made one myself in response to one of the posters. I didn't go over the line though.