Wiki: Messianic Judaism Forum

[Tishri1]

Wiki: Messianic Judaism Forumا

Messianic Judaism is defined as

Messianic Jewish followers of Jesus tenderly use His Hebrew name -- Yeshua (which means "salvation") -- and are committed to preserving their Jewish identity, believing it to be perfectly compatible with their newfound faith. They celebrate the Jewish feasts, meet on the Sabbath, teach from the Torah, celebrate Bar Mitzvah's and engage in other Jewish customs. Messianic synagogues are formed by Jewish and Gentile members who worship together and who recognize the Messiahship of Yeshua and the Jewish foundation of His message.

Messianic Judaism Forum

Messianic Judaism Forum Specific Rules

Welcome to the Messianic Judaism forum!
We have three kinds of members in MF
a) Voting Members
Who constitutes a voting member of MF?
Members with these Icons...Torah Scrolls , Menorahs, Star of David, and those MJs who have other faith icons who are on our list(see the sticky in the main Messianic Forum), who have been active with us in MJ, who have been posting activily with us for 3 months or more and have not been banned in the last 12 consecutive months...
http://foru.ms/t5844594-another-impo...5#post37910975 (http://foru.ms/t5844594-another-important-poll-who-constitutes-a-voting-member.html&page=5#post37910975)

b) posting members-see below
c) election candidates-see below

CF site-wide rules with MJF specific rules added to them



Quote:
1.0 Respect one another.
In order for Christian Forums to pursue the goal of keeping Christians as one body united in and by God, while at the same time acknowledging that we also have members from other faiths and world views, it is important that we treat one another with respect, whether we agree with others' beliefs and stances on certain subjects or not. Hurtful behaviors and words are wrong and reflect poorly on the Gospel message.
1.1 Don't Abuse the Name of God. G-d is also referred to as HaShem - literally 'The Name' (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_1)
1.4 Subforum and Congregational Areas (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_4)
1.6 Sharing information about one's beliefs (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_6)
1.7 Flaming of other persons (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_7)
1.8 Flaming groups of members is not allowed. (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_8)
1.9 A member must not harass another member (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_9)
1.10 Thread hijacking and derailment (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_10)
1.11 Slander and deliberate misrepresentation (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_11)
1.12 Reasonable Confidentiality (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_12)
Messianic Judaism Forum Additions

1.1 - MJ believers revere the Name of G-d and in doing so you may find some showing this reverence by spelling G-d without the 'o'. G-d is also referred to by 'The Name'. We also call the son of G-d Yeshua, as it is his given Hebrew name and means Salvation. We do not expect our visitors to post in this manner but to be respectful of those who do and not make derogatory remarks against those that do so.


1.4 Debating and Teaching in MJ

Debating by outsiders is defined by definition as a discussion of the difference and should involve a proposed solution to an issue. MJ Believers beliefs are not up for debate by anyone that is not an MJ Believer or falls in this catagory determined by this poll Quote:

Who can post freely in MJ:
Messianics, Jews and a list of approved Christians (TBD)
http://www.christianforums.com/t5777...t.html&page=28 (http://www.christianforums.com/t5777049-list-of-approved-posters-in-mj-the-list.html&page=28)

Everyone else is free to post as well but must post only in the fellowship fashion described in our wiki....
You may ask questions to why we believe a certain way but may not challenge us on our beliefs .

A separate debate area can be used for those who wish to challenge out beliefs. Those who wish to challenge our beliefs must abide by these rules. Scripture and scriptural understanding are subjects of debate. Each debate thread will have only one subject which is posted in the first thread. Any related debateable subjects, which are a topic by themselves, will be take to new thread.

All challenges must be presented as an alternative view to consider.
No name calling.
No insulting insinuations regarding of our intelligence.
No hell or damnation for our choices in faith.
No proclamations of other faiths superiority




Those posting in MJ main area of the forum must not be promoting any other faith. This includes teaching that messainic faith died or was changed from judaism to today's christianity.

Also not allowed are teachings against:

Torah observance
Sabbath observance
Kosher observance
Keeping of Holy Days in the bible

Posting to the MJ wiki

FSR for posting in the Wiki: You may ONLY post/edit this wiki if you are a CF staff member or a regularly posting MEMBER of the MJF with a torah scroll icon. No exceptions. All others can only post suggestions, in the comment section.


1.6 Sharing information about one's beliefs
a. No Anti-Missionary activity. We welcome all Jews but anti-Missionary activity will not be tolerated.1.7 Flaming of other persons - Examples of Flaming in the MJF would include:
Calling any member of the MJF a Judaizer or Pharisee
Slandering members because of their Torah observance.
Accusing MJ's of doing works for salvation.
Criticizing those who follow and keep Torah
Accusing someone who says they are a Jew, of not having proper ancestry, or religious practice
Accusing someone who self identifies as being Messianic AND bears the messianic icon or menorah of not being a Messianic. 1.8 Flaming groups of members is not allowed - Examples in the MJF would be:

Making Anti-Jewish or white supremacist remarks
Making Anti-Zionist or Anti-Israel remarks ( this would include Holocaust denial)We are all, believer and non believer created in the image of G-d, please treat each other as such.

1.9 - Harassment
You will not harass other members that have a different level of observance to Torah than you do.
There are those in MJF that recognize the works of the ancient Rabbis in the form of the Talmud, the midrashes, and Mishnah Torah. These should be respected as works worthy of discussion, to better our understanding, but not to replace the Torah and the other books of the Bible. Those who use these as a guideline to Torah observance shall not be harassed or ridiculed because of it.1.10 Thread hijacking and derailment
A. You will not purposely take over a thread with your own agenda, meaning you will not post in a thread specifically because you are against the subject or persons participating.


1.11 Slander and deliberate misrepresentation
This includes defamation of Members of MJ worldwide. You may share personal opinions regarding teachings but not in an inflammatory or defamatory way.
You will not misrepresent yourself such as claiming to be a Jew when you are not, or claiming to be clergy, such as a Rabbi when you are not.
Links to certain sites that only serve to defame those in MJ are not allowed. Specific sites prohibited in the MJF are as follows:
1. Seekgod.ca
TBA
TBAQuote:
2. Protect the young members.
It is our duty to protect our young members.
2.10 Members will not post obscene, vulgar, racist, sexually explicit, (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_2#faq_rule_2_10)
2.11 Age and gender limitations on some forums (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_2#faq_rule_2_11)
2.12 Bypassing the swear filter is not allowed. (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_2#faq_rule_2_12)2.10

Please note that MJ believers on the majority whole are a conservative group. We believe in modesty in dress and behavior which includes speech, please be respectful of that.

Racist posts include:

Anti Jewish remarks by the poster or posting Anti-Jewish remarks by anyone else, this includes those by Historic Christians.


[quote]

Administrative matters

The Staff Reports are open to view at all times. Please post respectful comments or questions about Mod Actions and keep discussion about actions on reports there, or in PMs to staff members.



Restricted/Limited Topics

(under discussion)

Anti-Sabbath keeping discussion.
Replacement theology/two house movement.Moderator requirements for the MJForum



To be eligible to moderate the MJ forum you must be:

1.MJ(torah scroll Icon),NTMJ(menorah Icon),Jew-nonbeliever(star of david Icon), MJ Christian(other christian Icon)
http://www.christianforums.com/t5725...9#post37502765 (http://www.christianforums.com/t5725606-poll-2-on-who-can-apply-for-mod-in-mjcreating-a-fsr.html&page=9#post37502765)
2. AND a regularly posting member of MJ for 3 months with no bans from MJ in the last year

_____________________________________________________________________________________

About Messianic Judaism


This wiki entry will contain what the forum membership has agreed upon to be "generally held Messianic Judaism beliefs".
Section 1 will be used as definition of Messianic Judaism and it's varying groups of peoples seeking the Truth of Torah and accepting Yeshua as Messiah.
Section 2 will explain what types of posts are acceptable in the Messianic Judaism forum from posters that are not Messianic believers.



Posting Guidelines

again who can debate was determined by a vote/poll in our forum Quote:

Who can post freely in MJ:
Messianics, Jews and a list of approved Christians (TBD)
http://www.christianforums.com/t5777...t.html&page=28 (http://www.christianforums.com/t5777049-list-of-approved-posters-in-mj-the-list.html&page=28)
Everyone else is free to post as well but must post only in the fellowship fashion described in our wiki....
Light debate is accepted as long as there are no teachings against a set standard such as the Trinity(or some other determined standard)

Teaching that does not proselytize or teach against a set standard (to be determined...) is acceptable.

1. Debate against the Messiahship of Yeshua is not allowed.
2. Teachings of the NT may only be argued by MJ's and NTMJ's

Answers to questions that are directly related to MJ by the Non-Trinitarian MJs, and the Christians who are MJ in lifestyle, and questions that are directly related to Judiasm by the Jews are acceptable...Again, as long as the teaching does not come against a set standard.

Soft debate (needs to be determined) is allowed for all Trinitarian Christians.

For those who do not practice Messianic Judaism in any way, shape, or form and/or are against Messianic Judaism and/or their doctrine and or the Jewish people, you are welcome to post fellowship posts and/or ask questions only.


Definition of Fellowship Post:It is not debate.It is not apologetics.It is not answering questions.It is not teaching.Earnest questions are always welcome from anyone.Fellowship is defined as discussion of topics of association, of companionship - i.e. discussions of things like friends, family, work..... these are fellowship posts. Posts that offer friendship would certainly be described as fellowship.

[SpiritPsalmist]

We need to lay down some rules so that we don't have non-Messianics disrupting. Have you taken a look at some of the other Wiki's to see how others are doing it...particularly the Word of Faith group? It does not have to be a free-for-all. :)

[SpiritPsalmist]

I added some things to hopefully help with any that may anti-Messianic, etc. It's very vague...it would help if someone who has been around in Messianic Judaism a bit longer to perhaps fill in some of the vagueness of what types of posts are not allowed.

[Tishri1]

What I ment by "Editing" Z wasnt to change your words, but to add my own.....so I did that just now

Looks good Quaffer:wave:

[SpiritPsalmist]

OK, I just rearrainged it a bit....please fix anything that does not sound right.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Is what is there ok with everyone? I most certaintly am not the expert on Messianic Judaism so whatever needs to be tweaked please tweak it. :)

[Tishri1]

I think our set standard should be the Trinity or something similar that shows Yeshua as divine and that teaching in favor of any other non trin doctrine should be against the rulesOur unique MJ family includes Jewish members, and Non Trinitarian MJ members, and Christians who have both an MJ lifestyle and also go to local Churches .....these all contribute much to our forum. Light debate is accepted as long as there are no teachings against a set standard such as the Trinity(or some other determined standard) prostelitizing for Judiasm without Yeshua should be against the rules


Teaching that does not prostelitize or teach against a set standard (to be determined...) is acceptable.



Answers to questions that are directly related to MJ by the NT MJs, and the Christians who are MJ in lifestyle, and questions that are directly related to Judiasm by the Jews are acceptable...Again as long as the teaching does not come against a set standard. questions by anyone for the Jews or non trins should be fine as long as their answers dont come against the Trin or Yeshua or MJ[quote]

[SpiritPsalmist]

Hey, Zayit. What you've added looks good. I just have a couple of question though.

1.1 - MJ's revere the Name of G-d and in doing so you will find them spelling G-d without the 'o' this is to show reverence to the one True G-d of Israel as well as him being referred to as HaShem which means 'The Name'. We also call the son of G-d Yeshua, as it is his given Hebrew name and means Salvation. No abuse of these names will be allowed.

This explains why some put a space in the name but sounds as if when I don't make a space that I will be considered as being abusive? Is that what is being said?

1. Seekgod.com
Is this an example of site not to be linked too?

[plum]

1.1 - MJ's revere the Name of G-d and in doing so you will find them spelling G-d without the 'o' this is to show reverence to the one True G-d of Israel as well as him being referred to as HaShem which means 'The Name'. We also call the son of G-d Yeshua, as it is his given Hebrew name and means Salvation. No abuse of these names will be allowed.
I second Quaffer's concern about this point. Explanation of why someone chooses to do this is nice, but it being in the rules makes it seem like if someone doesn't use it, then it's wrong and they could be accused of abusing the Name.

I don't always put a dash in for the 'o', and not all Messianics feel convicted about that issue.

Suggestion: that the rules wiki not be about "explaining" MJism, but instead be just rules. Related links to explanations (such as the FAQ threads) about specific practices can be included at the bottom. It's much too long as it is right now, I think....

[plum]

about seekgod.com:

i think the person who put that in actually meant "seekgod.ca" which is the site that used to be banned but has recently come up more in the past year.


Edited to Add:
I was doing some spelling/grammar cleanup and wanted to mention these points that don't really fit with the flaming rule:

d. Anti-Sabbath keeping discussion
e. Anti-Torah
h. Replacement theology, two house movement that replaces Israel with any other peoplediscussion of a topic isn't really flaming, and Anti-Torah ____(noun unspecified)... isn't exactly flaming either. they may be topics of discussion the MJF frowns upon, but if it's not a personal flame directed at the group or an individual, it shouldn't really be called flaming.
Replacement theology is also a tricky one since it's a topic, not really an example of flaming.
What about moving those two (and clarifying the second one a bit more) down to a "restricted topics" section? We could also move Anti-Zionism and all of that down there as well.

[dignitized]

I am disappointed that the definition of a Messianic Jew for this forum is still exclusionary.

[dignitized]

I take it that you intend for this to be a "Christianity" free zone still?

[Tishri1]

about seekgod.com:

i think the person who put that in actually meant "seekgod.ca" which is the site that used to be banned but has recently come up more in the past year.


Edited to Add:
I was doing some spelling/grammar cleanup and wanted to mention these points that don't really fit with the flaming rule:
discussion of a topic isn't really flaming, and Anti-Torah ____(noun unspecified)... isn't exactly flaming either. they may be topics of discussion the MJF frowns upon, but if it's not a personal flame directed at the group or an individual, it shouldn't really be called flaming.Maybe the flame rule should say "anyone who denegrates a person for following the Torah is flaming them and their posts will be edited and /or removed"
Replacement theology is also a tricky one since it's a topic, not really an example of flaming. this one could be moved to a restricted topics and I agree a vote from the forum whether to make it a FSR would be nice ....Any one want to try their hand at a poll for this one?...Remember to check the box so the members can see who voted ,thats the only way to keep socks and non members from voting too
What about moving those two (and clarifying the second one a bit more) down to a "restricted topics" section? We could also move Anti-Zionism and all of that down there as well.I explained that above in the reply to Quaffer. This is a misunderstanding on your parts, and on mine for not qualifying it more, I was trying to go through all the threads on what we want and it was not easy, this is my first draft so be nice. ;)

That was put in to go with the respecting the name, G-d is not his name, agreed? ;) But still it shows reverence for who he is. I just wanted it to be known to outsiders to not come in and make fun of or challenge those who do choose to use those substitutions for the real name, as there are some Messianics as well as Observant Jews who do this.:) I didn't think it fit under the flaming rule, but better here as an admonition, if you all think it best somewhere else, move it. :)


As far as the explaining, I agree, that is why I put what Tish asked me to on top of what was already done. I have a clearer understanding now of what should be here. When we discussed this in the forum, I know you saw this eirene, it was about who we are but I agree that shouldn't be here, maybe a link to the sticky in the forum called About Messianics?yes that would be good, we can have a FSR about ridiculing MJ beliefs in there as well and have a list of things we have been ridiculed of in the past, again a multiple choice poll with all those things posted in a thread for this would be helpful.....

those were things I addressed that Visionary brought up, remember for the most part I tried to organize imput from everyone here. :)

Anti-Torah ( noun unspecified?) Not totally sure what you mean by that eirene, not sure how much you have been around the MJF for the past months, but there has been some that have made it a personal agenda to attack those who follow Torah, this is why it is in the rules, no anti-Torah speech, maybe I should specify that be from within and without? Those who speak out against those that keep Torah are flaming, absolutely:thumbsup:are they not, in our forum it should be considered such, I know it is not in the rest of the forums. I think if this rule is to be debated a thread should be started in the MJF. yes I was just suggesting that and dont forget a poll for this FSR "Is ridiculing a member about observing Torah in any way flaming? yes /no:thumbsup: Someone want to create this thread?

I am not sure about moving those three, to just 'restricted'. I have even seen recently others since the doors were 'opened' come in and do a lot of brinking if not outright flaming against Zionists and Israel. That is flaming, and at the heart of who we are. You may not agree, and I understand why, but the majority don't want to have to tolerate that behavior.

If you speak against, Israel, its people and the fact that they are in the land G-d promised to them you are flaming Jews and those who love them. That is a group and a fairly large one, maybe not on these forums, but we still can have that safety out on the MJF no?I agree or at the very least restrict the discussion of it in MJ...Even if we were to have a debate forum I wouldnt want ani Semetic or ant Zionist dirt in here:thumbsup:

I think points 3 and 4 should be finessed and polished a bit more and then made into a separate post that is stickied in the forum and only a link from the wiki to there?

what do you think?ok that sounds good in fact several links to discussions we have on any of these points will help the reader understand better

I am disappointed that the definition of a Messianic Jew for this forum is still exclusionary.what specifically do you find restrictive? we may just be explaining it not trying to restrict it, if it is coming out as we didnt intend we can fix that, tell us what parts you mean:wave:

I take it that you intend for this to be a "Christianity" free zone still?Not nessessarily but we are making this an MJ safe zone

help us understand what you mean ok:hug:

[dignitized]

Not nessessarily but we are making this an MJ safe zone Trouble is - it's only safe for a very limited segment of those who are Messianic. I.e. those who subscribe to the baptist/pharistical school of Judaism.

help us understand what you mean ok:hug:There was a provision in the rules prohibiting threads on NT feasts.

[plum]

Anti-Torah ( noun unspecified?) Not totally sure what you mean by that eirene

my phrasing was confusing, sorry. "Anti-Torah" is an adjective and there was no noun to go with it like "Anti-Torah comments" or "Anti-Torah accusations" so I was confused how someone might read it...
I like how you said "Those who speak out against those that keep Torah are flaming"... how about "Slandering members because of their Torah observance"? :)

[SpiritPsalmist]

I take it that you intend for this to be a "Christianity" free zone still?

:scratch: I really don't see where you get that take on it.

[dignitized]

welp, experience for one.

[SpiritPsalmist]

welp, experience for one.
For those who only want to make accusations without telling us what is being referred to, then yes, we want to keep that type of poster in check. However, for the one willing to point out the area that is in question we can look at and change it where we see we need to.

If you have something that you think could be added to our Wiki then by all means share it. But throwing insults and telling us we're being exclusive without being willing to point out where you see this exclusiveness will not get us to change anything. I'm pretty sure that even Christian churches teach that.

[dignitized]

Allow me to be specific in what I am speaking of Quaffer:

I'm pretty sure that even Christian churches teach that. THERE. You have captured the heart of it. You separate MJ from Christianity. By taking the time to say even Christian churches AND the statement as a whole implies superiority of your interpretation of the faith to the rest of us.

Someone tried to codify in the rules a prohibition on NT feasts as topics!

There is an argument in the thread on who can be moderators where people are making the effort to ban MJ who do not subscribe to a very limited interpretation of what it means to be MJish.

There is a long history of people in the MJ forum claiming that "Christianity" is a corruption of the true faith - that it has been "paganized."

Is that enough of a list?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Allow me to be specific in what I am speaking of Quaffer:

THERE. You have captured the heart of it. You separate MJ from Christianity. By taking the time to say even Christian churches AND the statement as a whole implies superiority of your interpretation of the faith to the rest of us.

Someone tried to codify in the rules a prohibition on NT feasts as topics!

There is an argument in the thread on who can be moderators where people are making the effort to ban MJ who do not subscribe to a very limited interpretation of what it means to be MJish.

There is a long history of people in the MJ forum claiming that "Christianity" is a corruption of the true faith - that it has been "paganized."

Is that enough of a list?

Someone trying to codify and someone actually doing it are two different things. We are asking for suggestions. Some suggestions are acceptable to all and some are not. What the majority of those who have the sayso feel is what it will be. We have a right to keep out what we don't want. I see the other congregations making rules that exclude denominations other than their own. Are you challenging their wiki's as well?

I grew up Christian and I still consider myself Christian (although I attend a Messianic congregation) I am not seperating the two. As I know it most Christians even deny that the original believers were Jews. Most get pretty upset if I politely say "no thank you" to pork and accuse me of thinking I'm better than they when all I did was say "no thank you".

After studying the history behind the Christian church (of which I"m a part) from a Chrisitan perspective, I concluded that we did change the way it was done originally. Why must we continue to deny it? Why can't we as Christian believers face up to what was done?

One only has to do what God leads them to do. No one is asking that you give up Easter, Christmas, Halloween, or pork. However, to deny that those things were NEVER part of the Jewish group that JESUS, Paul, Peter and any of the other disciples were part of is....well....denial.

Here are the posting guidelines so far. Posting Guidelines

Light debate is accepted as long as there are no teachings against a set standard such as the Trinity(or some other determined standard)

Teaching that does not proselytize or teach against a set standard (to be determined...) is acceptable.

Answers to questions that are directly related to MJ by the Non-Trinitarian MJs, and the Christians who are MJ in lifestyle, and questions that are directly related to Judiasm by the Jews are acceptable...Again, as long as the teaching does not come against a set standard.

Soft debate (needs to be determined) is allowed for all Trinitarian Christians.

For those who do not practice Messianic Judaism in any way, shape, or form and/or are against Messianic Judaism and/or their doctrine and or the Jewish people, you are welcome to post fellowship posts and/or ask questions only. I see nothing that says Christians are not allowed to post.

Moderator requirements: To be eligible to moderate the MJ forum you must be:

1. A regularly posting member
2. TBA
3. TBA


It does not say anything about banning anybody.

Anyway, this thread is for "wiki" discussion. If you would like to start a thread in the proper area of the forum to discuss how some claim that Christianity is a corruption of the true faith then please take it there.

[dignitized]

quaffer dear, I'm not interested in the other congregations. I am interested in this one. I have chosen exile rather than having my every post reported - but I am a Jew by blood.

Secondly, I deleted the bit about the NT feasts.

Thirdly, you are right that the original Christians were Jews, and in Jerusalem and environs there were attempts to keep things "jewish" but claims of paganization are completely false.

[Ivy]

1. I agree with eirene that the G-d paragraph could be easily misinterpreted. It might be better to just have a simple statement that the name of God should be treated with respect and leave it at that.

2. While I agree with dealing decisively with blatantly anti-Jewish and anti-Israel statements, I think an opportunity is lost when a list of "things we won't discuss" is made. Yes, replacement theology is very very wrong; yes, it is annoying to be accused of "judaizing" or "being under the law" time after time.

But I don't think the answer is to call a moratorium on annoying subjects. Those subjects are opportunities to practice the demeanor of Yeshua and answer in a calm & reasoned way.....this is a far better witness than avoidance and controlling.

Rather than avoid subjects, have a Debate subforum, and restrict the troublesome subjects to that area. That way debaters can debate without the larger forum feeling constantly assaulted.

Rather than make a list of "things we won't discuss at all," make that list be of "subjects we will only discuss in Debate subforum."

[Ivy]

Also, it'd be good to define more specifically what "modest behavior & dress" are......does this mean, for instance "No flirting," "No discussing bodily functions," "No discussing bedroom matters" what? Does it mean "see that your character wears a skirt below the knees/never wears pants"? etc. etc.

[SpiritPsalmist]

I don't believe we want to define what "others" wear. The wiki is only pointing out what can expect to read among many of the MJ's. It's in no way saying that one must believe the same in order to post. Regarding matters of the bedroom and body functions I think just common sense and discretion are in order. It's not necessary to be like the Howard Stern show :sick:

[Ivy]

Yes, I think so too, in a way.....it is common sense, for instance, when in a different "community" to take a look around me and observe what the people in that community are doing, and not dishonor them by carelessly or deliberately flouting their standards. (Exception being if they're doing something patently gross & immoral.)

The fact is, though, that definitions of modesty will differ even in different areas of CF. Mightn't a person get a conflicting message if, say, they can buy a miniskirt on the Armory for their character, and then another member reports them for using that? I would feel sorry if someone felt "set up" for a wrist slap because of receiving contrary impressions about something.

Another example is that in one section on this board, I once saw a thread that was titled "The Flirting Thread".....to me it is "common sense" not to flirt with strangers but I guess some people don't see it that way. Anyway, I'm rambling..........

[Tishri1]

Zayit I added some quotes to the 2.3 rule that need to be worded better, it was in order to justify more clearly who can post in teaching or debate in the wiki, but it needs to be more clearly defined and I'm sure there are even more points that need to be added:wave:

[Ivy]

Zayit & Tishri, I'm wondering if it would be good, on the Restricted Topics section, to have something like:

Topics Restricted to MJ Debate Subforum:

1. Replacement theology
2. Anti-Shabbat keeping, anti-kosher, "judaizing" etc. discussions
3. Deity of Yeshua
4. Discussions of the Trinity
5. Practices of the Gentile Church
6. Middle East politics

[MezzaMorta]

I have edited out the rule which equated criticisms of Israel and Zionism to flaming. The rule was authoritarian and not in the spirit of fostering the exchange of ideas. Zionism is a secular (socalist) political philosophy that started in the early 20th century and Israel in it’s modern context is a secular state, criticisms of either are fully acceptable.

[LilLamb219]

I reverted the wiki back to where it was before the last edit.

[LilLamb219]

RobNJ suggested that you might want to put in your Wiki that only MJ members of your forum and maybe even mods can make changes to the Wiki but guests can put suggestions here.

What do you think?

[dignitized]

who will decided who is a member? While I self identify as being messianic - according to the old CF I am not.

[Ivy]

You might want to delineate, as anti-Semitic topics, Holocaust denial and hoaxes concerning "Jewish conspiracies."

And again, I think it would be good to edit 3.4.

[SpiritPsalmist]

Just wanted to post this new part of the MJ wiki

Posting to the MJ wiki

FSR for posting in the Wiki: the actual MJ wiki can ONLY be edited by staff & posters with the MJ faith icon.. all others can only post suggestions, in the comment section. ;) You may only post/edit this wiki if you are a regularly posting member of the MJF. No exceptions. .

[Tishri1]

Tishri could you make this a Sticky, What is a Messianic Believer and put it in the main MJF? Then when you do I will put a link in the wiki to lead to it. That way it can be read directly from the forum or from the wiki, I will also include a wiki link to here as a cross reference.





sure can thanks sooooo much Z:hug:

[Tishri1]

we figured out that last night it is automated once four subheaders[h2]'s are added...
to override it you use Erwins cheats here (http://www.christianforums.com/t5669848-wiki-christian-forums-wiki-syntax.html) The following magic word will hide the Table of Content regardless of the number of headlines present in the article.

http://www.nuhit.com/nh/images/nuwiki/NuWiki%20-%20NOTOC.png

The following magic word will instruct Wiki to show the Table of Content if at least there is one headline in the article.

http://www.nuhit.com/nh/images/nuwiki/NuWiki%20-%20FORCETOC.png

If you want to change the default location of the Table of Content, use the following magic word to indicate its new location.

http://www.nuhit.com/nh/images/nuwiki/NuWiki%20-%20TOC.png
(http://www.christianforums.com/t5669848-wiki-christian-forums-wiki-syntax.html)
:)(dont ask me how my DH showed me and I havent tried it yet^_^)

[Ivy]

3.4 The Staff Reports are open to view at all times. Please post respectful comments or questions about Mod Actions and keep discussion about actions on reports there, or in PMs to staff members.

:scratch: How so?


Either the numbers have changed or I made a typo...if I'm not too lazy, I will check back & see what in tarnation I meant. :idea:

[Ivy]

Either the numbers have changed or I made a typo...if I'm not too lazy, I will check back & see what in tarnation I meant. :idea:

I meant 2.3.

It was a typo.


2. While I agree with dealing decisively with blatantly anti-Jewish and anti-Israel statements, I think an opportunity is lost when a list of "things we won't discuss" is made. Yes, replacement theology is very very wrong; yes, it is annoying to be accused of "judaizing" or "being under the law" time after time.

But I don't think the answer is to call a moratorium on annoying subjects. Those subjects are opportunities to practice the demeanor of Yeshua and answer in a calm & reasoned way.....this is a far better witness than avoidance and controlling.

Rather than avoid subjects, have a Debate subforum, and restrict the troublesome subjects to that area. That way debaters can debate without the larger forum feeling constantly assaulted.

Rather than make a list of "things we won't discuss at all," make that list be of "subjects we will only discuss in Debate subforum."


This re-post sponsored by your friendly Lobbyist for the Debate Subforum.

Please attend my cheese & cracker party later. ^_^

[Tishri1]

do we have a poll yet for a debate forum....Can some one make one preeeeze:pray: I just dont want to be known around here as The Poll Lady:P^_^

[ContraMundum]

Way too many rules after 2.3.

This is beginning to look like the old days of controlled conversations. "no dissent allowed".

This rule set is a recipe for disaster. It's gonna be a terrible flop, and only three of four posters will be left here after a few months. The others will leave in frustration.

Here's the problem- if you are gonna start banning websites and topics, then you have a problem with fear. No website that isn't crude or unfit for Christian eyes should be banned here.

Whatt's the *real* reason Seekgod.ca is banned? Because that site names people who it claims have defamed the Hebrew Roots movement. If there is truth there, the site should be allowed to be referenced.

Secondly, both of the proposed "restricted" topics are part and parcel of the broader theological discussion *amongst* MJs and from what I've seen here in recent weeks a majority of MJ teachers would be reported here as being "anti-MJ" or "anti-Torah" or goodness knows what.

What I'm saying is this: unless you answer forever and without dispute what some of these theological questions ask you will never have an agreed upon definition and therefore a mod cannot rule on something that is not properly defined.

You can't make up rules about disputed doctrines amongst your own members- it merely alienates the members who see things differently.

[ContraMundum]

..and none of what I've said above would be a problem with a debate sub-forum around. Have the main forum for controlled topics, and have a dedicated "kill yourself with theology here" debate sub-forum.

Simple solution.

[Ivy]

do we have a poll yet for a debate forum....Can some one make one preeeeze:pray: I just dont want to be known around here as The Poll Lady:P^_^

I'll have a T-shirt made for you if you want. ^_^

I'll do it, Tish :hug:

[Tishri1]

..and none of what I've said above would be a problem with a debate sub-forum around. Have the main forum for controlled topics, and have a dedicated "kill yourself with theology here" debate sub-forum.

Simple solution.

I'll have a T-shirt made for you if you want. ^_^

I'll do it, Tish :hug: Bless you Ivy:hug::hug::hug::hug:

I think I'm gonna request the Tshirt be made for the CF characters forum for us

"I survived Tishri's unending Polls"^_^JK

[Tishri1]

snapshot taken

Messianic Judaism of the New CF

Messianic Judaism Forum

Messianic Judaism Forum Specific Rules

Welcome to the Messianic Judaism forum!

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)CF site-wide rules with MJF specific rules added to them



Quote:
1. Respect one another.
In order for Christian Forums to pursue the goal of keeping Christians as one body united in and by God, while at the same time acknowledging that we also have members from other faiths and world views, it is important that we treat one another with respect, whether we agree with others' beliefs and stances on certain subjects or not. Hurtful behaviors and words are wrong and reflect poorly on the Gospel message.
1.1 Don't Abuse the Name of God (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_1)
1.4 Subforum and Congregational Areas (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_4)
1.6 Sharing information about one's beliefs (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_6)
1.7 Flaming of other persons (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_7)
1.8 Flaming groups of members is not allowed. (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_8)
1.9 A member must not harass another member (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_9)
1.10 Thread hijacking and derailment (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_10)
1.11 Slander and deliberate misrepresentation (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_11)
1.12 Reasonable Confidentiality (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_12)

Messianic Judaism Forum Additions

1.1 - MJ believers revere the Name of G-d and in doing so you may find some showing this reverence by spelling G-d without the 'o'. G-d is also referred to by 'The Name'. We also call the son of G-d Yeshua, as it is his given Hebrew name and means Salvation. We do not expect our visitors to post in this manner but to be respectful of those who do and not make derogatory remarks against those that do so.


1.4 Debating and Teaching in MJ

Debating is defined by definition as a discussion involving a proposed solution to an issue. MJ Believers beliefs are not up for debate by anyone that is not an MJ Believer. You may ask questions to why we believe a certain way but may not challenge us on our beliefs . A separate debate area can be used for this.

Also not allowed are teachings against:

Torah observance
Sabbath observance
Kosher observance
Keeping of Holy Days in the bible

Posting to the MJ wiki

FSR for posting in the Wiki: You may ONLY post/edit this wiki if you are a CF staff member or a regularly posting MEMBER of the MJF with a torah scroll icon. No exceptions. All others can only post suggestions, in the comment section.


1.6 Sharing information about one's beliefs
a. No Anti-Missionary activity. We welcome all Jews but anti-Missionary activity will not be tolerated.
1.7 Flaming of other persons - Examples of Flaming in the MJF would include:
Calling any member of the MJF a Judaizer or Pharisee
Slandering members because of their Torah observance.
Accusing MJ's of doing works for salvation.
Criticizing those who follow and keep Torah
Accusing someone who says they are a Jew, of not having proper ancestry, or religious practice1.8 Flaming groups of members is not allowed - Examples in the MJF would be:

Making Anti-Jewish or white supremacist remarks
Making Anti-Zionist or Anti-Israel remarks ( this would include Holocaust denial)We are all, believer and non believer created in the image of G-d, please treat each other as such.

1.9 - Harassment
You will not harass other members that have a different level of observance to Torah than you do.
There are those in MJF that recognize the works of the ancient Rabbis in the form of the Talmud, the midrashes, and Mishnah Torah. These should be respected as works worthy of discussion, to better our understanding, but not to replace the Torah and the other books of the Bible. Those who use these as a guideline to Torah observance shall not be harassed or ridiculed because of it.1.10 Thread hijacking and derailment
A. You will not purposely take over a thread with your own agenda, meaning you will not post in a thread specifically because you are against the subject or persons participating.


1.11 Slander and deliberate misrepresentation
This includes defamation of Members of MJ worldwide. You may share personal opinions regarding teachings but not in an inflammatory or defamatory way.
You will not misrepresent yourself such as claiming to be a Jew when you are not, or claiming to be clergy, such as a Rabbi when you are not.

Links to certain sites that only serve to defame those in MJ are not allowed. Specific sites prohibited in the MJF are as follows:

1. Seekgod.ca
TBA
TBAQuote:
2. Protect the young members.
It is our duty to protect our young members.
2.10 Members will not post obscene, vulgar, racist, sexually explicit, (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_2#faq_rule_2_10)
2.11 Age and gender limitations on some forums (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_2#faq_rule_2_11)
2.12 Bypassing the swear filter is not allowed. (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rule_2#faq_rule_2_12)2.10

Please note that MJ believers on the majority whole are a conservative group. We believe in modesty in dress and behavior which includes speech, please be respectful of that.

Racist posts include:

Anti Jewish remarks by the poster or posting Anti-Jewish remarks by anyone else, this includes those by Historic Christians.


[quote]

Administrative matters

The Staff Reports are open to view at all times. Please post respectful comments or questions about Mod Actions and keep discussion about actions on reports there, or in PMs to staff members.



[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)Restricted/Limited Topics

(under discussion)

Anti-Sabbath keeping discussion.
Replacement theology/two house movement.
[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)Moderator requirements for the MJForum



To be eligible to moderate the MJ forum you must be:

1. A regularly posting member
2. TBA
3. TBA
_____________________________________________________________________________________

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)About Messianic Judaism


This wiki entry will contain what the forum membership has agreed upon to be "generally held Messianic Judaism beliefs".
Section 1 will be used as definition of Messianic Judaism and it's varying groups of peoples seeking the Truth of Torah and accepting Yeshua as Messiah.
Section 2 will explain what types of posts are acceptable in the Messianic Judaism forum from posters that are not Messianic believers.



[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)Posting Guidelines



Light debate is accepted as long as there are no teachings against a set standard such as the Trinity(or some other determined standard)

Teaching that does not proselytize or teach against a set standard (to be determined...) is acceptable.

1. Debate against the Messiahship of Yeshua is not allowed.
2. Teachings of the NT may only be argued by MJ's and NTMJ's

Answers to questions that are directly related to MJ by the Non-Trinitarian MJs, and the Christians who are MJ in lifestyle, and questions that are directly related to Judiasm by the Jews are acceptable...Again, as long as the teaching does not come against a set standard.

Soft debate (needs to be determined) is allowed for all Trinitarian Christians.

For those who do not practice Messianic Judaism in any way, shape, or form and/or are against Messianic Judaism and/or their doctrine and or the Jewish people, you are welcome to post fellowship posts and/or ask questions only.

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)Definition of Fellowship Post:[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)It is not debate.

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)It is not apologetics.

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)It is not answering questions.

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)It is not teaching.

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672821-wiki-messianic-judaism-of-the-new-cf.html#top)Earnest questions are always welcome from anyone.

Fellowship is defined as discussion of topics of association, of companionship - i.e. discussions of things like friends, family, work..... these are fellowship posts. Posts that offer friendship would certainly be described as fellowship.

[LilLamb219]

Hey Guys, MezzaMorta had messed with the Wiki again. I did a rollback but the title of the wiki is changed and I don't know what it says or if someone here did that or MM.

[tapero]

Due to glitch in sys, all history and contributors name to article are gone.

Here are the contributors names:

Contributors: Tishri1 (http://foru.ms/u102625), Quaffer (http://foru.ms/u3111), eirene (http://foru.ms/u19631), Purifying FLAME (http://foru.ms/u5020), LilLamb219 (http://foru.ms/u113161)

[visionary]

Concerned about all the pro-catholic postings in MJ. We need to have those of other faiths who are of Jewish blood lay the other faith doctrines at the door before posting in our corner of the forum.

[visionary]

I thought we should be defined as a group first.
Messianic Jewish followers of Jesus tenderly use His Hebrew name -- Yeshua (which means "salvation") -- and are committed to preserving their Jewish identity, believing it to be perfectly compatible with their newfound faith. They celebrate the Jewish feasts, meet on the Sabbath, teach from the Torah, celebrate Bar Mitzvah's and engage in other Jewish customs. Messianic synagogues are formed by Jewish and Gentile members who worship together and who recognize the Messiahship of Yeshua and the Jewish foundation of His message.