Seeker

[JustinHesychast]

Just letting y'all know of my new status. Hopefully I am still welcome here?

[SeraphimSarov]

I'm not exactly happy to hear that, but of course you're welcome here.

[nikostheater]

Of course you are welcome here!

[JustinHesychast]

Just double checking, since it's an EO forum. Thanks.

I can't change my sig or av yet because of the new server.

[SeraphimSarov]

There are plenty of non-EO floating around here. I'm still a catechumen, so I'm not technically completely EO yet either. :)

[Anhelyna]

Justin

with those of us from the old well loved TAW - you are always welcome

[Philothei]

Playing with the new gadgets at CF lol...So no big deal to be a seeker I thought you that way anyways. And of course you are welcome to this forum esp. now that the whole site is secular based....
:(


God bless,
Philothei

P.S. Lord have mercy on us too :(

[EmperorConstantine]

We know who you are, you're still welcome.

[JustinHesychast]

No. I have been a seeker with the "sects" of Christianity. But now I am a full-blown seeker. I don't think I believe in Jesus as God anymore.

[Philothei]

And what made you come to this conclusion?

[JustinHesychast]

I haven't for a few weeks. The other night it all just crashed down and I suddenly realized.

I am reading the Idiot's Guide to Buddhism, and I really like it. Who knows.

[Philothei]

The idiot's guide to "buddism" ha? Think about it Justin can you really decide about God based on an idiot's guide....lol.... be serious! God's revelation to the Jews was the first that "turned" the Ancient Greeks around to believe in monotheism.... think about it Greeks were supposed to be the smartest people of the times.... and they converted to Christ.... so many martyrs to Christianity... If Christ was not God why so many miracles and martyrs...


May you find what you are seeking. God bless you and mercy on us all.
Philothei

[JustinHesychast]

Islam has miracles that one can't deny. And martyrs.

The same can be said for Christianity, and (maybe) Judaism. Who knows, maybe even Hinduism.

Buddhism, probably not. But it isn't a religion as much as a philosophy. Right now I would consider myself an agnostic, and trying to learn the philosophy of Buddhism. But that might change tomorrow, or the next day. I am still seeking. Thus my new "faith" icon.

[Orthosdoxa]

I am really sorry to hear this, Justin, and I pray you come back to truth someday. But you are always our friend and always welcome here. Just don't start preaching at us about non-christian religion. :P

[Michael the Iconographer]

Islam has miracles that one can't deny. And martyrs.

The same can be said for Christianity, and (maybe) Judaism. Who knows, maybe even Hinduism.

Buddhism, probably not. But it isn't a religion as much as a philosophy. Right now I would consider myself an agnostic, and trying to learn the philosophy of Buddhism. But that might change tomorrow, or the next day. I am still seeking. Thus my new "faith" icon.
Justin, you really have totally bought into the whole cultural relativism, haven't you? This is a shame. I agree, you can't decide your faith based on an idiots guide to anything, just like you can't decide to go counter clockwise in your sexuality based on a few interesting thigns you may have seen posted on line. I guess the only real thing I can do is pray even more devoutly that you will be brought to a realization of the truth. I still suggest you pick of the writings of the Desert Fathers, you might be amazed to see their wisdom makes Buddhist thought look like childs play.

[JustinHesychast]

I will see if I can read more of the Desert Fathers after I finish a few books on Buddhism and Hinduism.

[Shubunkin]

No. I have been a seeker with the "sects" of Christianity. But now I am a full-blown seeker. I don't think I believe in Jesus as God anymore.
Sorry to hear that. :crosseo:

But think about this. Why would God reveal himself in that way? Wouldn't he do it the way the Bible says?

I had a book on Buddhism when a teenager. I read it, or tried to. It just seemed so fake and made up. I mean, Buddha was born out of his mother's side? That is ridiculous. I closed the book and never opened it again.

[AJB4]

Justin! Always welcome in my book. ;)

Keep posting here, or PM me from time to time. I'd still like to chat. :D

[Monica, child of God]

Hey Justin,

Thanks for explaining the icon change. There is nothing wrong with asking questions. Just make sure you are really evaluating and not just going with what sounds good.

I am sending you some booklets on the Orthodox Christian faith and I really think you should try to read them even before you finish your Buddhist/Hindu research. They aren't that long.

With prayers,

M.

[JustinHesychast]

I had a book on Buddhism when a teenager. I read it, or tried to. It just seemed so fake and made up. I mean, Buddha was born out of his mother's side? That is ridiculous. I closed the book and never opened it again.

That was bullcrap. :P Siddhartha Guatama, the Buddha, wasn't born of his mothers side. He was a regular guy. Well, minus the fact that he was a prince. He reached Enlightenment. He became Awake.

[Michael the Iconographer]

That was bullcrap. :P Siddhartha Guatama, the Buddha, wasn't born of his mothers side. He was a regular guy. Well, minus the fact that he was a prince. He reached Enlightenment. He became Awake.
Justin,
Can I send you a book of the sayings of the Desert Fathers in the mail?
Michael

[Monica, child of God]

Ephesians 5

For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light...

Therefore He says:


“ Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”

[JustinHesychast]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI

That beautiful video led me to more diligently consider Buddhism.

[Orthosdoxa]

As you look for the truth, remember that the truth is not an intellectual concept, but a Person.

[Michael the Iconographer]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI

That beautiful video led me to more diligently consider Buddhism.
There is a friend of mine at St. George where I go to DL every Sunday who grew up Buddhist who converted to Orthodoxy. Perhaps I should put you in contact with him, if you do not mind.

[JustinHesychast]

Sure.

[Monica, child of God]

Justin!

I just watched 15 seconds of that video and already I see glaring problems!

1) not the messiah, not a healer, not a teacher ...okay, but why wouldn't you want the Messiah, the Healer and the Teacher. It seems to me that even in this story Siddharta was saying look, I am just a guy. Do you really want to exchange worship of God for following the teahings of...a guy?


2) do not believe anything unless it agrees with your own reason Can't you see what the problem with this is? There are some people who believe the worst things based on their own faulty reason. There are people who are racist and that is reasonable to them. It makes total sense to them. There are people who truly believe that they should molest children and that the children seduce them. To them, in their fallen state, it is totally reasonable. Do you see where this is going? If everyone followed their own reason without God, His guidance, His instruction to us, His presence, the whole world would be lost in selfishness because *drumroll please* we are sinners!!! We do bad stuff all the time!

It sounds sexy but lets think these things through.

M.

[JustinHesychast]

1) His response is so... profound. "I am awake."

2) I see the faults. I see the good. I like the teaching of "go your own way". Buddha said "Try it, and see" (in regards to his teachings). One can be any religion and be Buddhist. Atheist, agnosticism, etc. It doesn't matter. He didn't even mention anything about the afterlife.

[disasm]

I never realized how young you are until now... Your in a really tough time for most people. It's that really difficult age where you have to work out what you believe and most people end up going through it. In addition to that, you still don't have independence from family yet, so your stuck under their rules still.

You're just a little older than I was when I was into the occult seances and didn't know what I believed. I wasn't into the occult for long, only a few weeks or so, but I remember getting interested in mormonism for a while, not to mention the not going to church for a year other than Christmas and Easter after I moved to the other side of the country (Tucson, AZ to Bellefonte, PA). Then after I started going to church I was dissatisfied everywhere I went, always searching for what was Truth. Well, I ended up finding it at Divine Liturgy 4 months ago. My journey to Orthodoxy took me 9 years after my period of dabbling in occult.

I'll pray for you in your searching, but remember down the road when something feels missing in your life, the fullness of Truth is in Orthodoxy. All religions point to Christ in some way. Even pagan religions have prophecies of a Messiah that will come and save the world. I can't remember the book, but the title had to do with St. Nektarios and it had prophecies of Christ outside of Christianity in it.

[Michael the Iconographer]

1) His response is so... profound. "I am awake."

2) I see the faults. I see the good. I like the teaching of "go your own way". Buddha said "Try it, and see" (in regards to his teachings). One can be any religion and be Buddhist. Atheist, agnosticism, etc. It doesn't matter. He didn't even mention anything about the afterlife.
That is the problem from much of what little I know about your life. The attitude of "go your own way" is the exact opposite of the Christian submission of ones will to Christ and the humble submission of a man to a woman and a woman to a man when enterred into a loving marriage. Both paths you are choosing are not what they seem to be to you but rather an illusion.

[JustinHesychast]

I fear getting beaten,

But the talk of Wicca had me youtube it. I found the most addictive and rhythmic Wiccan chant. (even though i believe it's a load of garbage :P)

[Michael the Iconographer]

I fear getting beaten,

But the talk of Wicca had me youtube it. I found the most addictive and rhythmic Wiccan chant. (even though i believe it's a load of garbage :P)
Justin,
I do not know how to convince you to NOT mess with wiccan chants. You could very easily bring intense evil upon yourself and none of us want that to happen to you!
Michael

[JustinHesychast]

I am not chanting them myself. Some of them are really pretty though.

I have some on my iPod just because they sound pretty. I also have some Hindu, Islam, Protestant, and Orthodox stuff. And then, a lot of secular. :P

[Monica, child of God]

1) His response is so... profound. "I am awake."

So he is a profound guy...Justin the world has seen many, many people with a talent for stringing together words. It has only seen One God so humble that He would take on flesh, empty Himself of Glory, take on undeserved shame, die on a cross and rise again. It is difficult to contemplate Divinity uniting with humanity; it is not really all that hard to be impressed by the words of a man.

2) I see the faults. I see the good. I like the teaching of "go your own way". Buddha said "Try it, and see" (in regards to his teachings). One can be any religion and be Buddhist. Atheist, agnosticism, etc. It doesn't matter. He didn't even mention anything about the afterlife.

Okay but what are you doing with the faults that you see? Ignoring them? I seen nothing impressive about the wisdom in that video. Feed the poor, share what you have, be humble, seek wisdom. These are all things that Christianity, esp. Orthodox Christianity teaches. And if this is all just teachings, it seems to me just a sort of self help strategy like the 7 Habits of Highly Effective people. Why take the name Buddhist at all if you are not following the man and his teachings.

Christianity expects more of you but it also offers more: communion with the Living God. Justin, God became man and lived with men so that we could live in God, partake of Him and become divine by grace. That is so huge! Much bigger in scope and profundity than being merely "awake."

M.

[Theophorus]

1) His response is so... profound. "I am awake."



Do you know why he said that? Do you know the source of buddhism?

[JustinHesychast]

Maybe, Theo. Elaborate?

[Theophorus]

Maybe, Theo. Elaborate?

So you know who vishnu is?

[JustinHesychast]

Um. The tern/name sounds familiar.

[Theophorus]

Um. The tern/name sounds familiar.
Hinduism says that we are the result of vishnu's dream.

[JustinHesychast]

That sounds neat. :P A load of BS it sounds like, too. I'm more interested in Buddhism anyways.

But, do you have a source? I haven't read that so far.

[Theophorus]

That sounds neat. :P A load of BS it sounds like, too. I'm more interested in Buddhism anyways.

But, do you have a source? I haven't read that so far.

http://www.kwanumzen.com/pzc/newsletter/v15n10-2003-oct.html

You are entertaining a quasi pantheistic path. Maybe you should decide what is the one thing needfull.

[JustinHesychast]

It'd be neat to be a pagan Buddhist. xD

Or just pagan. o.o;

That site was interesting.

Closest I have heard is:

In the basic Hindu Trinity of Brahma (http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/brahma.htm), Vishnu and Shiva (http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/shiva.htm), the Hindu god Vishnu is the preserver and protector of creation. Vishnu is the embodiment of mercy and goodness, the self-existent, all-pervading power that preserves the universe and maintains the cosmic order Dharma (http://www.sanatansociety.org/yoga_and_meditation/hinduism_philosophy_dharma_ethics.htm).

[Theophorus]

It'd be neat to be a pagan Buddhist. xD

Or just pagan. o.o;

That site was interesting.

Closest I have heard is:

In the basic Hindu Trinity of Brahma (http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/brahma.htm), Vishnu and Shiva (http://www.sanatansociety.org/hindu_gods_and_goddesses/shiva.htm), the Hindu god Vishnu is the preserver and protector of creation. Vishnu is the embodiment of mercy and goodness, the self-existent, all-pervading power that preserves the universe and maintains the cosmic order Dharma (http://www.sanatansociety.org/yoga_and_meditation/hinduism_philosophy_dharma_ethics.htm).

Ifyou really study it, they are the creation, so is the far eastern concept of "consciousness". It's sophisticated paganism. Ultimately it transcends nothing, by its own definition.

[Guineverelyndy]

Hey there, Justin.

I just have a question for you - What is it that you are actually looking for? It kind of strikes me that you really have no idea but you know that you need something and that is what is driving all of this. Do you have any idea what it is?

[JustinHesychast]

Hey there, Justin.

I just have a question for you - What is it that you are actually looking for? It kind of strikes me that you really have no idea but you know that you need something and that is what is driving all of this. Do you have any idea what it is?

That sounds right. Just searching for the truth is all.

[Breaking Babylon]

I haven't for a few weeks. The other night it all just crashed down and I suddenly realized.

I am reading the Idiot's Guide to Buddhism, and I really like it. Who knows.

"Beware of reading the doctrines of heretics for they, more than anything, can equip the spirit of blasphemy against you." - Saint Isaac the Syrian

The other night you had the demons come crashing down on you and you were suddenly filled with the spirit of blasphemy, because you're foolishly walking where angels fear to tread.

[JustinHesychast]

Elaborate on the last line please? Particularly the angels part? O_o;;

[Guineverelyndy]

That sounds right. Just searching for the truth is all.
Okay... searching for truth is good, but how do you expect to recognize it once you find it? The reason why I ask this is because I see you posting all of these things about this and that being "deep" or "beautiful" and it seems that you are measuring truth according to those terms. I think you need to examine what you think truth actually is first, otherwise your search is going to be pretty fruitless.

[JustinHesychast]

Right now, I am drawn to paganism and Buddhism. One is a religion, the other a philosophy. So I could be both.

[AJB4]

Right now, I am drawn to paganism and Buddhism. One is a religion, the other a philosophy. So I could be both.
Paganism kind of amuses me in a way :D.

The Wiccan Goddess Chant you have in your signature kind of reminds me of Macbeth. "Bubble bubble toil and trouble, fire burn, and cauldron bubble" or some [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] like that. lol

[JustinHesychast]

>_>

Not nice. :P

It's really pretty if you chant it right.

Besides, who doesn't love Hecate and Demeter? :D

[SeraphimSarov]

Hecate and Demeter? I don't love them; I have no idea who they even are.

I'm really curious as to what's drawing you towards paganism/Buddhism.

[Silentchapel]

I only heard of Hecate in some American comedy about witches... They used her name in an incantation while they were trying to revive some dead police officer. Didn't turn out well.
So no, I guess I don't love Hecate or Demeter. :)

[Akathist]

I never realized how young you are until now... Your in a really tough time for most people. It's that really difficult age where you have to work out what you believe and most people end up going through it. In addition to that, you still don't have independence from family yet, so your stuck under their rules still.

You're just a little older than I was when I was into the occult seances and didn't know what I believed. I wasn't into the occult for long, only a few weeks or so, but I remember getting interested in mormonism for a while, not to mention the not going to church for a year other than Christmas and Easter after I moved to the other side of the country (Tucson, AZ to Bellefonte, PA). Then after I started going to church I was dissatisfied everywhere I went, always searching for what was Truth. Well, I ended up finding it at Divine Liturgy 4 months ago. My journey to Orthodoxy took me 9 years after my period of dabbling in occult.

I'll pray for you in your searching, but remember down the road when something feels missing in your life, the fullness of Truth is in Orthodoxy. All religions point to Christ in some way. Even pagan religions have prophecies of a Messiah that will come and save the world. I can't remember the book, but the title had to do with St. Nektarios and it had prophecies of Christ outside of Christianity in it.

Your description of how you were about his age when getting into nonchristian things is the same for me. I was very very firm in my Methodist faith... loved church, went to Sunday School, Sunday morning services, Bible Study, Choir, Campus Life (Christian youth organization) every single week. Then I hit a certain age and suddenly, I was looking everywhere ELSE.

But I came back again. Christ gave us the parable of the Prodical Son for a reason! (It applies to so many of us doesn't it?)

[AJB4]

>_>

Not nice. :P

It's really pretty if you chant it right.

Besides, who doesn't love Hecate and Demeter? :D
I didn't mean anything bad by it. I have no disrespect for it. :D That didn't look very good, I admit.

[Silentchapel]

Your description of how you were about his age when getting into nonchristian things is the same for me. I was very very firm in my Methodist faith... loved church, went to Sunday School, Sunday morning services, Bible Study, Choir, Campus Life (Christian youth organization) every single week. Then I hit a certain age and suddenly, I was looking everywhere ELSE.

But I came back again. Christ gave us the parable of the Prodical Son for a reason! (It applies to so many of us doesn't it?)
Same here. I used to be big on magic before becoming Orthodox. The magic itself wasn't that important: it was a pride trip that you're different AND more powerful than others. Heh, talk between a priest and myself:

Priest: So what did you use the spells for anyway?
Me: Well, to protect myself from evil, mostly.
Priest: Did it work?
Me: Well, considering I became Orthodox and never touched sorcery again - yes, I think it worked.

[Monica, child of God]

Paganism, sexual passions, leaving the worship of God...Did you know that the Scriptures connect these actions?

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. --Romans 1

M.

[JustinHesychast]

Any religion can prove itself with its own sacred text.

[Orthosdoxa]

Any religion can prove itself with its own sacred text.

I don't disagree. Then again, we're not sola scriptura, either. :P

[SeraphimSarov]

Any religion can prove itself with its own sacred text.

Yeah, but as far as I know, we don't. Last time I checked, throwing a bunch of Bible verses at someone who doesn't believe isn't going to make them understand Christ.

No, we have people - all the saints through the ages. People show other people Christ, not the Bible. The Bible is useful only after one believes that the Bible truly is inspired by God Himself.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Hecate and Demeter? I don't love them; I have no idea who they even are.

I'm really curious as to what's drawing you towards paganism/Buddhism.
It obviously is not God who is drawing him there.

[Guineverelyndy]

It obviously is not God who is drawing him there.
For some reason, I really don't think that you pointing this out is going to cause Justin to say, "Oh by golly, you're right!" Everybody here already knows you don't think that. I think Kjell is trying to help him figure out where the root of all this is because it's not that simplistic.

[Seeker of the Truth]

There's a lot that could be affecting Justin. Such as his emotions from home, his sexuality, etc.

Nonetheless, everybody has a right to their own path. Just remember, there are a lot of Cons out there that are based on the wisdom of Man.

(AKA: spsucj)

[JustinHesychast]

The attraction to paganism is polytheism, and a lot of paganism has very deep roots in nature. Which is a huge plus for me, because Christianity seems to do squat with nature aside from occasional group.

Buddhism, it is the "your own path" thing and the "all paths lead to God (if there is a God". Not this dualistic "one way or no way" stuff.

[Silentchapel]

Well, we perfer the Creator of nature over the nature itself. ;) Not that we don't care about it - the current Ecumenical Patriarch isn't called 'the Green Patriarch' for nuthin!

[JustinHesychast]

He's about the only person to point to though. And I have seen far more liberal atheists/agnostics/Buddhists/etc. concerned over nature and the environment than Christians.

[Silentchapel]

And I've seen the same people getting all emotional over dead kittens and furs without lifting a single finger to stop abortion.
Point is: nature couldn't care less if you perserve it or not.

[JustinHesychast]

Unless you're a pagan. Or a Druid and believe in the Great Stag. :P Or unless you are a pantheist. Or if you believe that nature has a spiritual state of being. All, of which, I sort of believe.

[Silentchapel]

Heh - but aren't our towns also nature? ;) They're made of wood, stone... All natural products. We don't conjure some extradimensional material. Even volcanoes polute the air. I fail to see why would nature (which is just a concept) have a 'spiritual state of being'.

[JustinHesychast]

"God" can be considered a concept. But I don't think I can say anymore lest I get banned from the forum for "not being one of you" anymore. >_>

Olden towns, yes. Modern towns and cities are the furthest thing from nature, and absolutely disgusting. I wish I was born a few hundred years ago sometimes. Or that I could find a modern village that was similar to those of the days of yore.

[Silentchapel]

What's wrong with modern towns? What magical, other-worldy supstance from Negative Energy Plane are they made of?
Btw - God by his definition is a person, and not a concept. Belief in Him is another thing entirely. But nature's just... nature. Why should I consider the wooden beads of a rosary I own have 'spiritual state of existance'?

[JustinHesychast]

It's all so... fake. But I mean, it's natural, but not in the way I mean. I wouldn't consider a huge truck and a pool of flouride to be natural.

[Silentchapel]

You may complain all you want Justin, but the fact remains that those things indeed do come from nature.
Also, there is a world of wonderous things nature offers us! Like:
Spider bites (not for those weak of stomach) (http://z.about.com/d/urbanlegends/1/0/4/B/day_10_sm.jpg)
Volcanoes (http://www.ecoenquirer.com/EPA-volcanoes.jpg)
Animals killing other animals' cubs (sad) (http://www.perlgurl.org/archives/blogpics/AfricaFieldNotes/WebHyena02.jpg)
Rabbies (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Rabies_patient.jpg)
Pus (too icky even for me)
Survival of the fittest (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/125046333_7123c38e73.jpg)
Tornadoes (http://rsdweb.k12.ar.us/schools/secondary/RMS/preap/croom/Tornadoes.jpg)

And so on... I know you consider nature to be a beautiful thing, along these lines:

http://www.newfreedownloads.com/imgs/11224-w400.jpg

but the fact remains that nature has also a sad, depressive, sinister, disgusting, icky and plain unjust side to it. So why should I exalt it to something it is not? And it is nature that gives us trucks and flouride.

[JustinHesychast]

I can't wait until the day when nature is as it should be--beautiful, undefiled, and one of the best things to ever behold. I hate predator/prey, etc. It's awful.

[Orthosdoxa]

And I've seen the same people getting all emotional over dead kittens and furs without lifting a single finger to stop abortion.

Exactly. Nobody loves animals more than I do, but I have absolutely no respect for those who whine about preserving the environment and saving the whales, but think it's a wonderful expression of free will for a woman to chop up her unborn child and flush him down the garbage disposal.

Good old Yassar Arafat blew up some Israeli establishment some years back, violently killing a number of people, including children. Ingrid Newkirk, president of PETA, wrote him a letter of protest for this act of violence - because a donkey was killed in the explosion.

When asked whether or not she also cared about the people killed by the bomb, she snidely replied "It is not my place to inject myself into human wars."

Talk about screwed up priorities.

I understand the two are not mutually exclusive - you can care about animals and nature (it's called being a good steward of what God has given) AND care about stopping human atrocities, such as abortion. I do. But before you go praising the liberal atheists and such as you were doing, just remember where the rest of their priorities lie. When you start caring about trees and fish more than you care about human beings, you've already got one foot in a self-created hell.

Silentchapel - your posts in this thread are AWESOME!

[JustinHesychast]

But before you go praising the liberal atheists and such as you were doing, just remember where the rest of their priorities lie.

Silentchapel - your posts in this thread are AWESOME!

I think I agree. To both points.

[nutroll]

I'm going to say this just once in this thread, and I don't want to derail it completely, but compared to a lot of the people that post here, I'm a flaming liberal. I think you are assuming that because some people will say things like "Global Warming is a lie" that there is no one here who cares about the environment. I just usually avoid threads that have a likelihood of being contentious. I care greatly about the environment. I really enjoy nature, and I hate that many of our societies are doing things that threaten to destroy it. I am not interested in being a vegan, but apart from that, I would imagine that we would probably agree on a lot of environmental issues. So don't assume that the EP is the only Orthodox person who cares about the environment. I would venture to say that many of the more conservative people on here care about nature as well. They probably just see public policy issues in regard to the environment in a different way. You can pursue whatever religion you want to, but please don't do so because you think Orthodox people don't care about the environment. At the bare minimum, the EP and I care. I'm sure there are many, many more.

[SeraphimSarov]

My fiancee, an Orthodox catechumen, volunteers around seven or eight hours every week at a no-kill cat shelter. She freaks out every time she sees roadkill, and insists on calling a shelter every time we see a stray animal running around.

My parish cleans up the local nature trail and is always going to various forest preserves and such to enjoy God's creation.

The list goes on and on. We are to take care of God's creation. I don't see what you see so appealing about other religions' environmentalism because it's abundant in Orthodoxy.

[JustinHesychast]

Maybe I have just not experienced environmentalism in Orthodoxy because my only real access to it has been online, and not out having fun in a youth group on trips and such like I really want to...

[SeraphimSarov]

Well, you just said yourself what the problem is. Orthodoxy can't be experienced over the internet.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I can't wait until the day when nature is as it should be--beautiful, undefiled, and one of the best things to ever behold. I hate predator/prey, etc. It's awful.
Nature is also a 15 foot Great White shark off Seal Island in South Africa feeding daily in its favorite food, the seal. It isn't all the bed of roses you romantically believe it to be, Justin.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I'm going to say this just once in this thread, and I don't want to derail it completely, but compared to a lot of the people that post here, I'm a flaming liberal. I think you are assuming that because some people will say things like "Global Warming is a lie" that there is no one here who cares about the environment. I just usually avoid threads that have a likelihood of being contentious. I care greatly about the environment. I really enjoy nature, and I hate that many of our societies are doing things that threaten to destroy it. I am not interested in being a vegan, but apart from that, I would imagine that we would probably agree on a lot of environmental issues. So don't assume that the EP is the only Orthodox person who cares about the environment. I would venture to say that many of the more conservative people on here care about nature as well. They probably just see public policy issues in regard to the environment in a different way. You can pursue whatever religion you want to, but please don't do so because you think Orthodox people don't care about the environment. At the bare minimum, the EP and I care. I'm sure there are many, many more.
I am by definition ueber conservative. I totally disagree with the antics of PETA or Greenpeace or any of the other environmentalist groups out there. However, just because I am conservative and disagree with the politics of environmentalist groups and believe the global warming thing to be the biggest hoax I have ever seen, that does not mean I don't care about the environment or nature. I love to hike, fish, swim, garden and do many things outdoors. I don't like seeing polution, but at the same time I have no problem with cutting down trees in a forest as long as new ones are planted to replace the ones cut down. I do not want to see animals tortured as most of you can tell I have 3 dogs who I love dearly, and yet at the same time I have no problem having a nice fat juicy New York Strip Steak for dinner (as long as it is not Weds or Friday). I also have no problem with using a deers antler to make a pen or with wearing leather. Conservatives are not the evil people environmentalists make us out to be, and most of us actually do care about the environment however we just do not take it to the fanatical extremes the left does.

[nutroll]

I prefer a ribeye, and I suppose that is why we will never see eye to eye

[Michael the Iconographer]

I prefer a ribeye, and I suppose that is why we will never see eye to eye
Ribeyes are good, but then so is a nice thick juicy T-bone. I have learned over the past few years to eat my meat medium or medium rare, it has alot more flavor when cooked that way then when it is well done.

[nutroll]

That is definitely the preferred way to eat steak. And don't get me wrong, I will eat a New York Strip Steak, after all I'm from Yonkers, NY. I will eat just about anything from a cow that can have the word steak applied to it. But when I have a choice, it's usually Ribeye for me.

[ClementofRome]

Ribeyes are good, but then so is a nice thick juicy T-bone. I have learned over the past few years to eat my meat medium or medium rare, it has alot more flavor when cooked that way then when it is well done.


WELL YES INDEEDY!....medium rare....... yummmmmmmmmmmmm

[nutroll]

And I knew that this thread would get derailed, I just didn't realize it would be on the subject of steaks.

[ClementofRome]

STEAK is a great thread derailer!!!!! :)

[Michael the Iconographer]

That is definitely the preferred way to eat steak. And don't get me wrong, I will eat a New York Strip Steak, after all I'm from Yonkers, NY. I will eat just about anything from a cow that can have the word steak applied to it. But when I have a choice, it's usually Ribeye for me.
I never ate steak medium or medium rare until I started to eat buffalo steaks and the restaurant told me that cooking the buffalo steak any warmer than medium would destroy the texture of the meat. Once I tasted how good the buffalo tasted medium I tried beef medium and now I won't even think about asking for a steak well done.

Steak and bier are the 2 great thread derailers.

[Michael the Iconographer]

WELL YES INDEEDY!....medium rare....... yummmmmmmmmmmmm
It is too bad I am on my way to work right now, or I would be tempted to throw a steak on the grill as we speak...licking my chops...

[SeraphimSarov]

WELL YES INDEEDY!....medium rare....... yummmmmmmmmmmmm
YES

[Monica, child of God]

Any religion can prove itself with its own sacred text.

I hope this wasn't directed towards my comment because it wasn't intended to prove anything. It was an observation from the perspective of our Scriptures. Justin, as long as you come to TAW you are going to get Orthodox Christianity and that includes our Scriptures, saints and liturgical texts. If you don't want to hear our comments on what you share with us, why are you here?

M.

[Silentchapel]

Back to the original thread -
Fact is, just because we do care about unborn children does not mean that we don't care about nature. The reason you'll see those liberals waving with enviroment flag is that they haven't got anything better to prove to themselves and to others that they're 'good people' and that you can be 'a decent person without God.' I do believe in global warming, I do throw all my garbage in a trash can, I do get all emotional when I see a roadkill, and I feel like I've given a birth when I see my morning glories sprout. Also, Orthodox monasteries look amazing - a perfect mixture of human creation dedicated to God and nature at its best. Most monasteries have obediences that have to do with gardening - here in Serbia we have this monastery, Djurdjevi Stupovi (George's pillars) which only has a couple of monks. One of obediences is to take care of the forest surrounding the monastery, and monks have said that it is their favorite obedience. People going through the forest notice how beautiful it is - it is like some perfectly arranged park. I only give one example - I'm sure that there are plenty of others (I'm not big on visiting monasteries myself).
My point is: Those enviromentalists care about nature so much since they have trouble helping their own fellow man. They're so worried about so-called 'overpopulation' (something I consider a myth) or global warming to notice that these things essentially come from human greed - something that only God can truly heal. I've even seen people who see humans as nothing more than walking units of carbon-dioxide, so they decide not to have children (I think they would do humanity and clean air a favor if they do you-know-what with a millstone).
Oh, and if you hate predator/prey (something perfectly natural) God has given assurance (in Christianity) that this will end. I don't think I've heard of such a thing in paganism (or at least in Buddhism).

[Andrew21091]

I'm sad to hear this new path you are leading down Justin.

Lord have mercy