The Christian and Culture

[Iosias]

Considering the following Scripture, is it right to attend the theatre, cinema? What about watching drama or films?

Psalm 101:3, 7 "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me. He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight."

Ephesians 5:11 "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."This is the series of articles that pricked my conscience on the issue:

http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandard...?article4=2671 (http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandardBearerArticle.asp?article4=2671)
http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandard...?article4=2643 (http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandardBearerArticle.asp?article4=2643)
http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandard...?article4=2632 (http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandardBearerArticle.asp?article4=2632)
http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandard...?article4=2599 (http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandardBearerArticle.asp?article4=2599)
http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandard...?article4=2586 (http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandardBearerArticle.asp?article4=2586)
http://www.rfpa.org/sb/PrintStandard...?article4=2503

These are also helpful:
http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_19.html
http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_92.htm

A good sermon:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=8507171319

[Shane Roach]

I'm reminded of the verse that refers to the idea that to completely separate from the world one would have to come out of the world, and that it further insists that the most pressing part of the world to separate from are people who try to maintain they are members of the church but who do not behave as such.

Having said that, I am not the biggest moviegoer. I rarely find them a stumbling block to my faith though. When I have troubles, it is usually when I am alone, not in a movie theatre and likely to be with family or friends.

I have long felt the most important aspect of ones walk is finding friends to spend time with who share ones commitment to God, and it turns out to be a lot harder than simply avoiding movies.

Thought I would add, nice that you have so many links, but these days I am not able to commit the time I used to to discussion, and have not found debate here to be terribly fruitful in any event (here being this site, not the fundy forums of which I am something of a card carrying member). Sorry I could not offer more in depth conversation to you concerning all those links. :)

[KitsapGirl]

I think that with ALL things discernment is important. If we decided not to go to movies, what would happen?

Most likely the movie industry wouldn't enev notice for a while. Once hey did notice, they would realise that the moral compass isn't keeping tabs anymore, and they can produce anything they wanted. The immorality of the entertainment industry would have a free pass.

We are part of the checks & balance system in this world. Our presence in this world, participating in life in this world, keeps this world from being like the days of Noah, or Lot.

I'm not saying that we should go do whatever we want... On the contrary I'm only saying that if we as the body of Christ will only view, buy & use things made by, for Christians then we are leaving the wolves to take over the henhouse (the world).

We must be discriminatory as to what we will watch, listen to or buy. We must use the word for this...but we must also not become fanatical or radical in this. That opens doors to the sins of self righteousness & pride.

[Iosias]

We are part of the checks & balance system in this world. Our presence in this world, participating in life in this world, keeps this world from being like the days of Noah, or Lot.

Drama in and of itself regardless of content is sinful.

As to content:

Philippians 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Do you honestly believe that watching a film that breaks the ten commandments is pleasing to God and that we are being obedient to him by watching it?

[KitsapGirl]

Drama in and of itself regardless of content is sinful.

As to content:

Philippians 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
Do you honestly believe that watching a film that breaks the ten commandments is pleasing to God and that we are being obedient to him by watching it?
What kind of films do you think I'm watching? My meaning wasn't understood...

We should be watching & listening to things that do not go against the Bible. We should be petitioning the industry to change their ways. When they do make a good TV show or film we should go to it, and support it.

Sometimes we are TOO quick to throw out the good with the bad without explaination. As for the nature of acting being lieing. I get your point. Not all acting or drama is badbecause of it. We ALL know that an actress isn't being herself. Jesus spoke in parables...storytelling. That is what drama/acting is.

We live in a grey world. We're called to be black & white. But there comes a point when being too black or too white is also a sin.

[Iosias]

As for the nature of acting being lieing. I get your point. Not all acting or drama is badbecause of it.

Drama is, by definition, the presentation of the life of another person, whether real or fictitious, by the assumption of that person's personality for purposes of entertainment. The key point here is that drama is possible only by assuming another's personality. Any textbook on drama will emphasize this. The "gifted" actor is the person who is able to suppress completely his own personality and assume the personality of another. The more he is able to do this, the better actor he is. He must, to be successful, assume to himself all the thoughts, all the desires, all the emotions, all the feelings of the person whose role he plays. He must, as much as he can, make himself that person. He must make himself feel as that person feels, think as that person thinks. He must, so to speak, crawl behind the skin of that man and get into his bones and marrow to lay hold of that person in the very depths of his being. He must put himself deeply inside that person so that he looks through the person's eyes, down that person's nose, and experiences all that that person feels and thinks.


This is a sin. It is a sin to do this. A man may not assume the personality of another. This is wrong, in the first place, because the person in man is that part of him which is God-created in a special sense. We often make a distinction between body and soul. We say then that the body comes from the parents, while soul comes from God. While we need not go into this matter in any detail, this distinction is incorrect. It is better to use the distinction between person and nature. And then we may say that our natures come from our parents, while our persons are directly created by God. This follows, after all, the analogy of the Lord Jesus Who received His human nature from Mary while His person was the Second Person of the holy trinity.

But, if this is true, then the person is that part of the individual which has the direct stamp of God upon it and which sets a man apart from every other person who has ever lived. This stamp is put by God according to God's purpose and in order that God's intent may be accomplished in him. He stands alone in life as unique, marked by God Himself. This is clear from identical twins. Twins may be so similar in physical appearance that it is impossible even for their teachers and ministers to tell them apart. But a mother can always tell the one from the other because she knows these twins intimately and sees the vast differences in their "personality" though their physical appearance may be identical.
But because every person is created by God, we do violence to our person when we push it aside in order to assume the personality of another. We deny our God-given person to assume the personality of someone else.
In the second place, the sin of this can be demonstrated by means of another consideration. All will have to agree that in assuming another personality there are only two possibilities. The one possibility is that of assuming the personality of a sinner. But if an actor assumes the personality of a sinner, he must, in the nature of the case, assume all that person's sin. He must think his evil thoughts, experience his evil emotions, will his evil desires, speak his evil words, and do his evil deeds. He must assume all those sins and make them his own in a very deep and intense way.
The other possibility is to assume the personality of a saint. The only One Who lived a sinless life was, of course, the Lord Jesus. And in various passion plays, attempts are made to dramatize Christ Himself. It would seem that this is dramatic presentation at its best and highest. But can any child of God, sensitive in even a little way to the profound mystery of the incarnation -God become flesh to dwell among us - fail to recognize this as the grossest blasphemy? How can a mere man portray dramatically the suffering of the eternal Son of God?

But there have been saints in the world; and one may ask whether it is ethically right to portray the life of a saint. We may use the illustration of Martin Luther who himself describes for us the long and profound struggle to attain peace with God. But here too, one immediately senses that this may not be done. Luther's struggle was so holy, so profoundly sacred, so intensely personal a matter between him and his God, that for an actor to attempt to make these experiences his own becomes a presumptuous intrusion on holy ground where angels tremble to stand. To enact (and that for purposes of entertainment) the trembling fear of Luther before a holy God, to present dramatically the spiritual conquest of Luther's heart by sovereign grace is a wicked parody of that which is most sacred.
The judgment of God rests upon sins of this sort. We have only to look upon the lives of those who have devoted themselves to such a career. Their personalities are destroyed and the psycho-analysts do a multi-million dollar business in trying to help these confused, mixed-up, wretched people live even a semblance of a normal life. They have destroyed themselves in the depths of their being, and God's judgment is upon them. They sink deeper and deeper into the morass of sin from which there is no escape except in death. For the Christian, this all belongs to the Babylon of Revelation 17 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?version=KJV&passage=Revelation+17) and 18 which shall be destroyed.

http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_19.html

[KitsapGirl]

[quote=AV1611;37818520] The key point here is that drama is possible only by assuming another's personality. Any textbook on drama will emphasize this. The "gifted" actor is the person who is able to suppress completely his own personality and assume the personality of another. The more he is able to do this, the better actor he is. He must, to be successful, assume to himself all the thoughts, all the desires, all the emotions, all the feelings of the person whose role he plays. He must, as much as he can, make himself that person. He must make himself feel as that person feels, think as that person thinks. He must, so to speak, crawl behind the skin of that man and get into his bones and marrow to lay hold of that person in the very depths of his being. He must put himself deeply inside that person so that he looks through the person's eyes, down that person's nose, and experiences all that that person feels and thinks. [quote]

I don't know what textbook you're talking about. I am a trained actress. I have trained since I was 12 years old. I have NEVER been told to "suppress completely my own personality and assume the personality of another". I have always been told to find elements of the other persons personality within myself, or use my own experiences to convey the appropriate emotion, and use them. In a sense I am telling a story, using my emotions to make the scene make sense & seem real. There are parts of each & every one of us that we share. We all hurt, we all cry, we all love, we all hate...

As an actress I use MY OWN emotions & experiences to play a part. In a sense, I am being more honest with people than usual when I open myself on stage.

[IisJustMe]

This is a sin. It is a sin to do this. A man may not assume the personality of another. This is wrong, in the first place, because the person in man is that part of him which is God-created in a special sense.I would point out that a fictional character is not the creation of God, but of the author or screenwriter. Therefore, to "impersonate" the character would not be sin. Secondly, your conviction in this matter, if adopted by everyone, would negate passion plays and Christmas productions that are useful tools in presenting the gospel to an unbelieving world, as we would not allow ourselves to "impersonate" historical figures such as Mary, Joseph, Herod, the magi, or especially Jesus Himself. I don't think eliminating such tools would be wise. And finally ...But because every person is created by God, we do violence to our person when we push it aside in order to assume the personality of another.This assumes the actor becomes the person "impersonated" as you so thought-provokingly outlined in much of the post above this quote. However, I must disagree with the validity of that assumption. When an actor named Eric portrays Benjamin Franklin, what do his friends call him when he comes off stage: Eric, or Ben? Obviously, they call him by his name, so his identity has not changed. It is an important distinction, as in the Bible, the name is everything. It identifies not just its bearer, but its bearer's character. The actor is still Eric, with all Eric's personality and attributes. He does not actually possess Mr. Franklin's personality and character while on stage, he simply recreates them according to his interpretation. He is called "Ben" only for two hours during the play.

If a person actually assumes the character and identity of someone else, we call it "schizophrenic disorder" and they come see people like me (I'm a psychologist) to cure them. That doesn't make the sinners. It makes them sick.

A very thought-provoking and well-constructed essay, indeed! But too strictly interpreted and bordering on extreme legalism. We must be careful not to let our faith encroach on our freedom in Christ.

[Iosias]

Secondly, your conviction in this matter, if adopted by everyone, would negate passion plays and Christmas productions

:clap: :clap: :clap:

A (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/ChristmasSermon.htm) "Christmas" Sermon, by Samuel Davies (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/ChristmasSermon.htm)
T (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/americanxmas.htm)he Religious Observance of Christmas and 'Holy Days' in American Presbyterianism, (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/americanxmas.htm) by Chris Coldwell
Samuel Miller, 1825 Letter on Christmas Observance (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/miller1825.htm)
Samuel Miller: Presbyterians Do Not Observe Holy Days (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/miller_on_holy_days.htm)
Articles Opposing Observance of Easter and Holy Days (http://www.fpcr.org/antieaster.htm)
Christmas Examined. Several articles critical of various aspects of Christmas (http://www.fpcr.org/antixmas.htm).
G (http://www.naphtali.com/gghodays.htm)eorge Gillespie on Holy Days (http://www.naphtali.com/gghodays.htm) (Naphtali Press)
D (http://www.naphtali.com/days.htm)avid Calderwood: Against Festival Days (http://www.naphtali.com/days.htm) (Naphtali Press)
J (http://www.naphtali.com/holidays.htm)ames Gilfillan: Holidays (http://www.naphtali.com/holidays.htm) (Naphtali Press)
B (http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm)rian Schwertley: The Regulative Principle of Worship and Christmas (http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm) (Reformed Witness)
D (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/belial.html)oug Comin: What Fellowship Has Christ with Belial? (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/belial.html) (Triangle Reformed Presbyterian Church)
D (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/calendar.html)oug Comin: God's Word and the Church Calendar (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/calendar.html) (Triangle Reformed Presbyterian Church)

[IisJustMe]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

A (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/ChristmasSermon.htm) "Christmas" Sermon, by Samuel Davies (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/ChristmasSermon.htm)
T (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/americanxmas.htm)he Religious Observance of Christmas and 'Holy Days' in American Presbyterianism, (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/americanxmas.htm) by Chris Coldwell
Samuel Miller, 1825 Letter on Christmas Observance (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/miller1825.htm)
Samuel Miller: Presbyterians Do Not Observe Holy Days (http://www.fpcr.org/blue_banner_articles/miller_on_holy_days.htm)
Articles Opposing Observance of Easter and Holy Days (http://www.fpcr.org/antieaster.htm)
Christmas Examined. Several articles critical of various aspects of Christmas (http://www.fpcr.org/antixmas.htm).
G (http://www.naphtali.com/gghodays.htm)eorge Gillespie on Holy Days (http://www.naphtali.com/gghodays.htm) (Naphtali Press)
D (http://www.naphtali.com/days.htm)avid Calderwood: Against Festival Days (http://www.naphtali.com/days.htm) (Naphtali Press)
J (http://www.naphtali.com/holidays.htm)ames Gilfillan: Holidays (http://www.naphtali.com/holidays.htm) (Naphtali Press)
B (http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm)rian Schwertley: The Regulative Principle of Worship and Christmas (http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm) (Reformed Witness)
D (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/belial.html)oug Comin: What Fellowship Has Christ with Belial? (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/belial.html) (Triangle Reformed Presbyterian Church)
D (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/calendar.html)oug Comin: God's Word and the Church Calendar (http://www.reformed.com/triangle/calendar.html) (Triangle Reformed Presbyterian Church)
The views expressed on all these web sites have been abandoned by the very churches of which these men were leaders. The views are still commonly held today -- by Jehovah's Witnesses and certain extreme Anabaptists (Mennonites and the Amish) who persist in legalism to the detriment of their faith.

It is an extremely legalistic viewpoint that has no merit in light of the grace of God and His desire to be glorified. He delights in our worship, and while the world may abrogate the holiness of the season -- even if it is the wrong date, which I admit -- that has no bearing on the heart and spirit of those who know Who is the Reason for the season.

Fnndamentalism is one thing. Legalism is quite another. Please try not to confuse the two.

[Iosias]

The views expressed on all these web sites have been abandoned by the very churches of which these men were leaders.


Which is lamentable because they will have to give an account for what they are doing. God's word is clear, if it is not commanded then it is forbidden. This is well exaplained here (http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm#C3). Some good sermons can be listened to here (http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&keyword=Pastor%5ESteven%5EDilday&keyworddesc=Pastor+Steven+Dilday&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=holy+days&x=0&y=0).

May God in his mercy grant reformation to his Church :prayer:

[KitsapGirl]

Which is lamentable because they will have to give an account for what they are doing. God's word is clear, if it is not commanded then it is forbidden. This is well exaplained here (http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm#C3). Some good sermons can be listened to here (http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&keyword=Pastor%5ESteven%5EDilday&keyworddesc=Pastor+Steven+Dilday&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=holy+days&x=0&y=0).

May God in his mercy grant reformation to his Church :prayer:
Reformation...yes. I pray we return to the foundations of the Bible.

Legalism without love & restraint...no. I do not adhere to mans understanding of the Bible (we've gotten it wrong so many times)...I read it for myself, pray & meditate. Isn't this what we're supposed to do?

[IisJustMe]

Which is lamentable because they will have to give an account for what they are doing. God's word is clear, if it is not commanded then it is forbidden. This is well exaplained here (http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm#C3). Some good sermons can be listened to here (http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakerWithinSource=&subsetCat=&subsetItem=&mediatype=&keyword=Pastor%5ESteven%5EDilday&keyworddesc=Pastor+Steven+Dilday&currsection=sermonsspeaker&AudioOnly=false&SpeakerOnly=true&keywordwithin=holy+days&x=0&y=0).

May God in his mercy grant reformation to his Church :prayer:Its legalism at its worst, and unhealthy as well as unholy.

I will disengage from the conversation now. You will not be moved, I'm sure, even though it would be wise to reconsider.

[KitsapGirl]

I too am finished with this conversation. I will pray for your heart to understand.

[SwirlingEd]

Drama in and of itself regardless of content is sinful.

No offense, but that is a ridiculous statement. A dramatization can be a great tool to illustrate a point that might not otherwise be clear. I understand your viewpoint on content, but you lost all credibility, in my opinion, with this generalization.

[Iosias]

No offense, but that is a ridiculous statement. A dramatization can be a great tool to illustrate a point that might not otherwise be clear.

I beg to differ :thumbsup: