Not sure I want unity with this

[Secundulus]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/

[WarriorAngel]

:doh: I have a HEADACHE!

Well, let's see how long it is before he is defrocked.

AS I said in the other thread...
If ppl actually obeyed the Pope we would have less of the crazies running around. :holy:

O Lord please....have mercy! :crossrc:

[a_ntv]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding,


Allah means 'God' in arabic.
Also the christians who speak arabic use the word Allah in the worship and in the prayer

The bishop was speaking about an Indonisia that is mainly an islamic country and anyone know that Allah means God.

I dont know what the matter with a Netherland bishop, probably the article was simply scandalistic....but the word Allah is as much correct as the word God, as the word Deus, as the word Theos.....

PS if you are not sure to want a unity with our Church, we are not at all sure to want a unity with your denomination

[xristos.anesti]

Allah is the Arabic word for God -

Arab Christians use it to address their prayers -

I do not know - I do not he is implying that we should become Moslems - he is implying that we should use this Arabic word to address God -

I do not see how this is going to change anything - however I do not think that he should be attacked for something he is not implying -

then again - I could be wrong...

[Secundulus]

Baal is simply the Caananite name for God. Why don't we start calling him that.

I have a better proposal. Why don't people of all faiths start calling God Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to foster understanding.

These Islamics are martyring Christians every day. Any Bishop that proposes something like this is a coward.

[Albion]

PS if you are not sure to want a unity with our Church, we are not at all sure to want a unity with your denomination

In fact, your denomination doesn't want unity with our Church anyway, right? We're the ones who have indicated our interest in drawing closer to the other Apostolic communions--and in some cases have achieved a measure of success with it.

[Albion]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
AMSTERDAM - A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/

Why don't we just have all faiths refer to him as "God?" That is even more generic than "Allah."

The pity is that that poor benighted bishop suggested this in the belief that it would ease tensions. That's something like the Nazis having prisoners dig their own graves before being shot.

[WarriorAngel]

Well, I am not sure what Allah is now.

Back in 622 AD or so, and pre dating that, it was a name of the moon god.

But, since Islam, it has evolved into Allah the Monotheist God.

I am not going to stand behind this Bishop. :sick:

Bishop Muskens, who will shortly retire, has raised eyebrows in the past with suggestions that those who are hungry may steal bread and that condoms should be permissible in the fight against HIV and AIDS.


But I will pray for him. :crossrc:

[Globalnomad]

The comparison with Baal does not hold, because the name Baal was (AFAWK) never used for the God of the Israelites. Allah is, on the other hand, used by Arabic-speaking Christians.

Still, I don't agree with the Bishop's idea. Semantic precision notwithstanding, the name "Allah" IS far too identified with one particular religion. Even Arabic-speaking Christians, I've noticed, tend to avoid it as far as possible, using "Rabbuna" instead ("our Lord").

Don't call him a dhimmified coward, though. That's too strong. He is only trying to shock his audience away from Islamophobia - which IS a genuine problem! In spite of Islamic fundamentalism and everything, we ought to remember that we are the three great monotheistic religions. In this atheistic, materialistic, relativistic world, we ARE on the same side in many ways.

[Globalnomad]

By the way, St. Thomas Aquinas also taught that it is not a sin for the hungry to steal bread.

[Secundulus]

The comparison with Baal does not hold, because the name Baal was (AFAWK) never used for the God of the Israelites. Allah is, on the other hand, used by Arabic-speaking Christians.

Still, I don't agree with the Bishop's idea. Semantic precision notwithstanding, the name "Allah" IS far too identified with one particular religion. Even Arabic-speaking Christians, I've noticed, tend to avoid it as far as possible, using "Rabbuna" instead ("our Lord").

Don't call him a dhimmified coward, though. That's too strong. He is only trying to shock his audience away from Islamophobia - which IS a genuine problem! In spite of Islamic fundamentalism and everything, we ought to remember that we are the three great monotheistic religions. In this atheistic, materialistic, relativistic world, we ARE on the same side in many ways.

Islamaphobia is the intelligent response to a system that seeks nothing but our subjugation and destruction. Islam has absolutely nothing to do with YHWY, the God of the Jews.

At best Allah is the figment of the demented imagination of a bloodthirsty warlord. At worst he is Satan himself.

I expect that Screwtape and his nephew Wormwood are having a great laugh at our expense right now.

[kamikat]

But, since Islam, it has evolved into Allah the Monotheist God.


This is not true. If you go to a Divine Liturgy at an Antiochian Church, you will hear Allah used in the Arabic Liturgy and has been used since long before Islam was invented.

[Albion]

Bishop Muskens, who will shortly retire, has raised eyebrows in the past with suggestions that those who are hungry may steal bread and that condoms should be permissible in the fight against HIV and AIDS.

This bishop seems clearly to be off on his own bizarre tangent and is not taken seriously. So probably we shouldn't do so either knowing that his Allah suggestion isn't going anywhere.

[kamikat]

Islamaphobia is the intelligent response to a system that seeks nothing but our subjugation and destruction. Islam has absolutely nothing to do with YHWY, the God of the Jews.

At best Allah is the figment of the demented imagination of a bloodthirsty warlord. At worst he is Satan himself.

There is a huge difference between hating muslims and improper understanding of the Arabic language. There are many Arab Christians in the world. They speak Arabic. The Arabic word for God, which has been used in the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom since the 4th century, 3 hundred years prior to the invention of Islam, is Allah. We have several Antiochians in TAW who would be happy to explain this to you, as would the little old Lebanese grandma who lives next door to me. She would slap you silly if she knew that you thought she was praying to the god of Islam when she used the word Allah in her prayers.

[WarriorAngel]

By the way, St. Thomas Aquinas also taught that it is not a sin for the hungry to steal bread.

He wrote that it was not a crime, but he did not teach those who were hungry to go out and steal.
Difference.

This is not true. If you go to a Divine Liturgy at an Antiochian Church, you will hear Allah used in the Arabic Liturgy and has been used since long before Islam was invented.

Jesus spoke Arabic, but He did not call God, Allah.

Archeologists have found pagan moon god altars with the name Allah for their god, which is how we understand how Muhammad converted the Saudi's who already had a god with that name...which is why they were easier to convert.
Well, thats what scholars have reported when studying the life of Muhammad.

And how he converted the pagans by using the name of their god...only making the polytheists monotheists..

[Secundulus]

What in the world do Antiochians have to do with the people in the Netherlands (i.e. Northern Europe).

The answer is: absolutely nothing.

This is obviously an attempt to appease mohammedans.

Words mean something in the context in which they are spoken. When a muslim says Allah the meaning of that word has absolutely nothing to do with the meaning of God when spoken by a Christian.

Or maybe this bishop is simply a universalist and everything is God.

[kamikat]

Jesus spoke Arabic, but He did not call God, Allah.


Um, really? I had always heard that He spoke Aramaic
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_of_Jesus
Most scholars believe that Jesus primarily spoke Aramaic, with some Hebrew and Greek, although there is some debate in academia as to what degree. Generally, scholars believe that the towns of Nazareth and Capernaum where Jesus lived were Aramaic-speaking communities, that he was knowledgeable enough in Hebrew to discuss the Hebrew Bible, and that he most likely knew Greek through commerce as a carpenter in nearby Sepphoris and because Greek was the common language of the eastern part of the Roman empire. Accordingly, Jesus is believed to have addressed primarily Aramaic-speaking audiences.

[WarriorAngel]

link (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-moon-god-koran.htm)

Also according to archeological finds;
Since 1991 Ditlef Nielsen's views were given a new and unexpected twist by the Christian polemicist Robert Morey. In a series of pamphlets, books and radio programs, he claimed that "Allah" of the Qur'an was nothing but the pagan Arab "Moon-god". To support his views, he presented evidences from the Near East which can be seen in "Appendix C: The Moon God and Archeology" from his book The Islamic Invasion: Confronting The World's Fastest-Growing Religion and it was subsequently reprinted with minor changes as a booklet called The Moon-God Allah In The Archeology Of The Middle East.

[Secundulus]

Um, really? I had always heard that He spoke Aramaic
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_of_Jesus

The word used in the time of Jesus was Adonai (Lord) or YHWY (The Name of God).

Allah was not used.

[Albion]

link (http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-moon-god-koran.htm)

Also according to archeological finds;
Since 1991 Ditlef Nielsen's views were given a new and unexpected twist by the Christian polemicist Robert Morey. In a series of pamphlets, books and radio programs, he claimed that "Allah" of the Qur'an was nothing but the pagan Arab "Moon-god". To support his views, he presented evidences from the Near East which can be seen in "Appendix C: The Moon God and Archeology" from his book The Islamic Invasion: Confronting The World's Fastest-Growing Religion and it was subsequently reprinted with minor changes as a booklet called The Moon-God Allah In The Archeology Of The Middle East.

I actually think that you're both correct. Allah is the Arabic word for God but it also meant the Moon god before Mohammed made that god into the only god. The use of the word by Christian Arabs, therefore, is not so much the issue as what adopting the Bishop's idea would mean. He did not, after all, suggest what he did in order to draw Arab Christians and other Christians closer together.

He stated his interest in easing tensions between Christians generally and Muslims. That could only be done--even in theory--if the Muslim God and the Christian God were being addressed by the same term...and that means accepting the Muslim meaning of God (Moon god turned into the only God) as the same as the Christian God.

[WarriorAngel]

Aramaic is the same as Arabic. I meant Aramaic, but it is the same language as Spain is to Guatamala. Same language, variances occur.

God's name in Hebrew was Yehweh, and Jesus was Yeshuah.

However; Jesus called Him Father, and taught us to call Him Father.

He never called Him by any other name than Father.
Nor did the Apostles.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arabic_alphabet


The history of the Arabic alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_alphabet) shows that this abjad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjad) has changed since it arose. It is thought that the Arabic alphabet is a derivative of the Nabataean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataean_alphabet) variation (or perhaps the Syriac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_alphabet) variation) of the Aramaic alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet), which descended from the Phoenician alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet), which among others gave rise to the Hebrew alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet) and the Greek alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet), (and therefore the Cyrillic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic) and Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet) alphabets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet), etc).

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Baal is simply the Caananite name for God. Why don't we start calling him that.

I have a better proposal. Why don't people of all faiths start calling God Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to foster understanding.

These Islamic dogs are martyring Christians every day. Any Bishop that proposes something like this is nothing but a dhimmified grovelling coward.
Ugaritic, actually.

[Yeznik]

Well, to some degree its like saying that the word god in English can be used to address pagans gods as well. So when the word god is used in English doesn't automatically denote that its the Triniun God.

[nestoj]

Jesus did used Aramaic, but that's not the issue. Intention behind this bishop's words is important and I don't think he wanted all to become closer to Christians in Antiochian Orthodox Church...

nestoj
God helps

[EmperorConstantine]

Jesus did used Aramaic, but that's not the issue. Intention behind this bishop's words is important and I don't think he wanted all to become closer to Christians in Antiochian Orthodox Church...

nestoj
God helps
^_^^_^^_^

That's right, infiltrate the Roman Church one bishop at a time...:P

[RadixLecti]

Aramaic is the same as Arabic. I meant Aramaic, but it is the same language as Spain is to Guatamala. Same language, variances occur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arabic_alphabet

This is very incorrect. Aramaic and Arabic are different languages just like Hebrew and Arabic are different languages. Aramaic is much more similar to Hebrew than it is to Arabic (at least biblical and talmudic aramaic) I studied all three of these languages in college (although I am no expert). Just because they use the same alphabet does not mean they are the same languages. English and Romanian use the same alphabet, but are different languages. Jesus did NOT speak Arabic, although he spoke aramaic and most likely hebrew.

[EmperorConstantine]

Jesus did NOT speak Arabic, although he spoke aramaic and most likely hebrew.
Very true.

The only reason why Arabic is even spoken as much as it is is because of Islam.

I think that it is more likely that Christ spoke Greek than Arabic.

[zhilan]

Aramaic is the same as Arabic. I meant Aramaic, but it is the same language as Spain is to Guatamala. Same language, variances occur.

God's name in Hebrew was Yehweh, and Jesus was Yeshuah.

However; Jesus called Him Father, and taught us to call Him Father.

He never called Him by any other name than Father.
Nor did the Apostles.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arabic_alphabet
Then go confront the Antiochian bishop about it. =)

[zhilan]

Yeah, I've never heard the claim that Jesus spoke Arabic before....Muhammad, sure, but Jesus no.

[Globalnomad]

Aramaic is the same as Arabic. I meant Aramaic, but it is the same language as Spain is to Guatamala. Same language, variances occur.

God's name in Hebrew was Yehweh, and Jesus was Yeshuah.

However; Jesus called Him Father, and taught us to call Him Father.

He never called Him by any other name than Father.
Nor did the Apostles.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arabic_alphabet
"Eli, Eli, lamma sabactani?"

Sorry to shock you, but Allah is the same root-word - one could loosely say, a later linguistic development - as the Hebrew and Aramaic word "El". The three languages are closely connected. ("Eli" is simply "my God" - anyone who understands modern Arabic will recognize the -i suffix as meaning "my".)

Please don't let your Islamophobia get in the way of linguistic facts. You can disagree with this Dutch priest without needing to falsify scientific truth (linguistics is a science).

[Colabomb]

In certain contexts, Allah is a proper term for God. It is also clear that the allah of the Christians is not the allah of the Muslims.

However, in our Western Context, Allah is almost exlusively used to refer to the Islamic god. Therefore, I will not criticize those in arabic cultures for calling God allah, however in this society, it should be made clear that Allah is Not Jehovah Almighty, and in our society we make that clear through how we address Him, or how we don't address him.

[WarriorAngel]

In certain contexts, Allah is a proper term for God. It is also clear that the allah of the Christians is not the allah of the Muslims.

However, in our Western Context, Allah is almost exlusively used to refer to the Islamic god. Therefore, I will not criticize those in arabic cultures for calling God allah, however in this society, it should be made clear that Allah is Not Jehovah Almighty, and in our society we make that clear through how we address Him, or how we don't address him.

I agree. Allah is the God of Muslims.
And they say He is not Triune.

Thanks GN.:wave:

[Mary of Bethany]

I agree. Allah is the God of Muslims.
And they say He is not Triune.

Thanks GN.:wave:

Not to beat a dead horse, WA - but just to clarify once again:

Allah is an Arabic word meaning God.

The "God" that Muslims worship - which they call Allah - is not the Triune God that Christians worship, whether we call him God, el Dios, le bon Dieu, Allah, (insert Chinese, Japanese, Swahili, etc, etc, etc.).

The word "Allah" is not *necessarily* the Muslim "God".


Mary

[Albion]

The word "Allah" is not *necessarily* the Muslim "God".


Mary

But it's a dumb suggestion just the same, because of the obvious implications.

[EmperorConstantine]

What is really dumb about it is that the bishop is in the Netherlands, not the Middle East. Therefore, he should be saying God in his own language.

[Mary of Bethany]

But it's a dumb suggestion just the same, because of the obvious implications.

Agreed! Christians who don't already use "Allah" shouldn't start now, just to appease Muslims or show some sort of false unity to the world.

Mary

[Albion]

What is really dumb about it is that the bishop is in the Netherlands, not the Middle East. Therefore, he should be saying God in his own language.

Well, the idea was for something like a religious equivalent of Esperanto, the artificial universal language that was supposed to bridge linguistic differences. The problem is that choosing a word from one language and another from a different one is not neutral. Each one, such as with the Allah suggestion, carries it's own existing cultural associations which dosn't change merely because it is argued that technically it means something else.

How it is used and by whom is already set. If, therefore, this bishop were thinking realistically, he would have suggested a word with no strong preexisting implications, like (I think) "Almighty" or "Deity." Not that I'd have any interest in going along with that, but it follows his line of thought better.

[Secundulus]

If anyone is still under the delusion that Islam is a "Religion of peace", such as some of our moronic politicians like to continually repeat, then you might want to look at this thread http://www.christianforums.com/t5926741-muslims-agree-or-disagree.html .

Here some of the Muslims are being quite honest about what Islam is.

[Globalnomad]

;) Isn't it nice to reach agreement, from time to time?;)

So, to sum up:

-Allah can be a legitimate name for our Triune God;

- but we feel that this particular case is not a legitimate circumstance, so we strongly oppose the idea on the grounds that it smacks of dhimmitude and would only lead to confusion among the faithful;

- but (now this is my own contribution, but I hope you all agree) let's be understanding of the bishop and not demonize him or call him a coward.

- And as always: pray for peace.

OK?

[WarriorAngel]

I prefer Eli, to Allah. ;)

And I still would not call Him that.
I call Him Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Almighty.
God.
etc etc.

[Colabomb]

English speakers should call God God. French speakers Dieu, Spanish speakers Dios, etc.

Lets not take our Holy Lord and politicize His name.

[Simon_Templar]

The comparison with Baal does not hold, because the name Baal was (AFAWK) never used for the God of the Israelites. Allah is, on the other hand, used by Arabic-speaking Christians.

Still, I don't agree with the Bishop's idea. Semantic precision notwithstanding, the name "Allah" IS far too identified with one particular religion. Even Arabic-speaking Christians, I've noticed, tend to avoid it as far as possible, using "Rabbuna" instead ("our Lord").

Don't call him a dhimmified coward, though. That's too strong. He is only trying to shock his audience away from Islamophobia - which IS a genuine problem! In spite of Islamic fundamentalism and everything, we ought to remember that we are the three great monotheistic religions. In this atheistic, materialistic, relativistic world, we ARE on the same side in many ways.
actually if you examine place names in the bible, Baal is used in Israelite place names to refer to the true God. Baal, doesn't mean God, however, it means Lord. Baal and Adonai are equivalent. God is equivalent with Elohim.

In Arabic Allah is a combinatio of the definite article "Al" with the word Ilah, which comes from the same aramaic root as Eloh in hebrew, which is "god". So in arabic to say "The God" originally it was Al Ilah, over time and usage that simply became Allah.

Now, it is one thing to say that Allah just means "God". It is another thing entirely to equate the god of Islam, with the God of Christianity.

[JasonV]

Not to drag this up again BUT:

Ba'al was used to describe YHVH by the Israelites.

YHVH was the name of a Canaanite god, as was El.

All religions borrow from earlier traditions. Rome is the master at this.

Have a nice day.

[HephzibahBenJudah]

Hello.

David said ...

Psa 37:25 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Psa&c=37&v=25&version=KJV#25) I have been young, and [now] am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

[CatholicFlame]

Just a post,

I thought that He wants us to call Him Abba (which means daddy in english).

He is that close to us. Our Loving Daddy

:-D

[Albion]

Just a post,

I thought that He wants us to call Him Abba (which means daddy in english).

He is that close to us. Our Loving Daddy

:-D

Exactly so.

And this is why really, honestly, I am saddened that quite a few sincerely Christians DO NOT approach God in that way, but are apparently timid about speaking to their Father and trusting him to be willing to hear from us. We always say this kind of thing to our own children--'I'm always here for you,' 'you can say anything to me without fear of me becoming mad,' etc.--but when it comes to God, they instinctively behave NOT in the manner you've addressed.

Instead, they think that they need another intercessor if they are going to get our Father's attention, a saint or such, and they feel the need always for miracles in order to bolster their faith in God's presence and love.

If only they could really believe in their hearts what they profess with their lips about God being with and for them. :(

[CatholicFlame]

Well in my life Albion, that is not why I ask the help of the saints really. I love God my Father and I talk to Him and to the Lord Jesus. I really do.

But I have found that the closer I get to God, the closer He gets me to all of His family. Those on earth naturally and even those in heaven. He wants to prepare me for heaven and the great communion of us all together. That is why love of neighbor is right up there next to love of God.

[rrguy]

May Peace be with you all. I think you can take a few views on this & possibly argue as long as you want. I don't see much gained judging a church or denomination by one statement that may be taken out of context. I am sure we all can agree it happens? I don't see much gained by accusing a denomination for being wrong for trying to avoid conflict yet also being wrong for not agreeing with another's view?

Allah (Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language): الله, Allāh) is the standard Arabic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language) word for "God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God)".[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-Britannica) The term is most likely derived from a contraction of the Arabic article al- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-) and ʾilāh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BEil%C4%81h) "deity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity), god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos); another theory traces the etymology of the word to the Aramaic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_language) Alāhā.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-EoI)
While the term is best known in the West (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world) for its use by Muslims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic) faiths, including Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian) and Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) in reference to "God".[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-EncMMENA)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-Britannica)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-Columbia) The term was also used by pagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagan) Meccans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca) as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Islamic_Arabia).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-EoI)
The concepts associated with the term Allah (as a deity) though differed from tradition to tradition. In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was not the sole divinity, had associates and companions, sons and daughters. There was also a kind of kinship of between Allah and the jinn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie). [5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-GodEoQ) In Islam, Allah is the pivot of the Muslim faith who is only God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawhid), all-merciful and omnipotent, transcendent creator of the universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity), and the judge of humankind.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-EncMMENA)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-Britannica) As the Arab Christians today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-Cambridge), they for example use terms Allāh al-ab (الله الآب) meaning God the father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the son, and Allāh al-ruh al koudous (الله الروح القدس) meaning God the Holy Spirit. There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur'an and the Hebrew Bible. [7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-Peters1) The Qur'an also rejects the Trinitarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity) conception of God as three persons in one substance (see Trinity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity)).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah#_note-Britannica-Islam)

[rrguy]

Exactly so.

And this is why really, honestly, I am saddened that quite a few sincerely Christians DO NOT approach God in that way, but are apparently timid about speaking to their Father and trusting him to be willing to hear from us. We always say this kind of thing to our own children--'I'm always here for you,' 'you can say anything to me without fear of me becoming mad,' etc.--but when it comes to God, they instinctively behave NOT in the manner you've addressed.

Instead, they think that they need another intercessor if they are going to get our Father's attention, a saint or such, and they feel the need always for miracles in order to bolster their faith in God's presence and love.

If only they could really believe in their hearts what they profess with their lips about God being with and for them. :(


Albion I will give you credit to having much knowledge on religion & your statements cause me to think & try to learn. I don't understand everything of every ones faith yet I found there are more myths or misunderstandings supported than truths? There may be some who feel that way but I think many more agree more so with CatholicFlame. I have seen better examples than mine, Yet I don't know of any Father who gets upset with one brother helping another & they both know without their Father they would not be? Would a father be mad at a child who feels unworthy & ask for his brothers help? Or prefer the child who disobeys & expects whatever he ask for?

If God is in us & we are all brothers & sisters, who are to try & be Saints & we are to help others & we help him when we help his children & many of his works come through others & we can see how some before us are excellent examples, I don't see it wrong if God helps us through them? There is also Scripture where someone ask Abraham (who has Gods favor) to intercede for Gods help?

I don't remember the last person who visited a grave & talked to a loved one who was deceased, then was told whats wrong with you? Talk to God only!!!

James 5:16 says the earnest heartfelt prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available.

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

Baal is simply the Caananite name for God. Why don't we start calling him that.

I have a better proposal. Why don't people of all faiths start calling God Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to foster understanding.

These Islamics are martyring Christians every day. Any Bishop that proposes something like this is a coward.
I do believe the Christ to which we follow fostered a heart and love for peace.

The word Allah means God. It isn't like they are calling God something that doesn't mean God.

Extending an olive branch is a smart and Christ like thing to do. Humility trumps pride.


Pax Christi.

[Colabomb]

Allah, however in certain cultural context speaks of the islamic god.

If a Christian is arabic speaking? No problem.

If a Christian is English speaking, major problem, in that in the English Speaking world there is a difference between God and allah. There is an understanding that they are different names for different dieties. We are not arabic speakers, there is no reason to take on a foreign name simply to appease those who are killing our brothers across the world.

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

Allah, however in certain cultural context speaks of the islamic god.

If a Christian is arabic speaking? No problem.

If a Christian is English speaking, major problem, in that in the English Speaking world there is a difference between God and allah. There is an understanding that they are different names for different dieties. We are not arabic speakers, there is no reason to take on a foreign name simply to appease those who are killing our brothers across the world.
What is wrong with using a different name for God? One that clearly addresses the one true God? I do not understand this vigilant attack on the arabic word Allah.

What is up with this anti Islamic lingo of "killing our brothers across the world"

This should have nothing to do with turning our backs to those who also use the word Allah. Christ loved those who persecuted Him and also prayed for them...extending a hand of peace by offering that calling God Allah is not a bad thing is in no way inflamitory or heretical...now saying that Muhamad is his profit would be a much different story.



Pax

[Albion]

I do believe the Christ to which we follow fostered a heart and love for peace.

The word Allah means God. It isn't like they are calling God something that doesn't mean God.

Extending an olive branch is a smart and Christ like thing to do. Humility trumps pride.


Pax Christi.

And then the next concession to Islam's demands will make just as much sense to you as this one, and then the next, until Islam has achieved its goal of extinguishing the Christian faith by a thousand cuts.

I'll make it easier for you, and we can all save time.

After we decide to call God Allah, we can agree that 1) Jesus was a Muslim (that's also one of Islam's favorite claims),

2) that Islam reveres him just as much as we Christiams do (that divinity stuff being an unnecessary complication that is not humble and causes friction, yada yada yada), and then

3) that Islam is the highest form of faith since it doesn't compromise its values all the time just to get along--"like Christians do." :sigh:

[Anglian]

Dear Sancta Maria,

I respect your sentiment, but wonder how much contact you have with Islam where it is in the ascendant?

Being a member of the Coptic Orthodox Church we see, everyday in Egypt, the way in which Islam disrespects Christianity. That does not mean we should reciprocate, but it also means we should not blind ourselves into a kind of indifferentism which holds that there is very little difference between us; there are big differences.

What is wrong with using a different name for God? One that clearly addresses the one true God? I do not understand this vigilant attack on the arabic word Allah.

What is up with this anti Islamic lingo of "killing our brothers across the world"

This should have nothing to do with turning our backs to those who also use the word Allah. Christ loved those who persecuted Him and also prayed for them...extending a hand of peace by offering that calling God Allah is not a bad thing is in no way inflamitory or heretical...now saying that Muhamad is his profit would be a much different story.
Pax

The Muslims hold to what we would consider an heretical view of God. Their God in not a triune God, and they hold that we believe in Three Gods; so 'Allah', although a word we Copts do use for God when worshipping in Arabic (as we were forced to centuries ago on threat of death), does not mean for us what it does for Muslims.

There is, alas, no Islamic country in which Christians have the same rights as Muslims, that is contrary to their Law. Moreover, where Islam has flourished it has suppressed Christianity. If one takes modern Turkey (a secular state now officially) as an example. In the sixth century it was a centre of Christian civilisation, the three Cappodican Fathers came from there as did many Saints. How many Churches are left there now? Very few, and they are under threat.

No doubt many Muslims in the west are well-intentioned, but the sad fact is that where they have control Christianity - and Christians - suffer in a way they do not in the west. Recently a Muslim complained to me at the press attacks on his faith in the western media. I did not defend those attacks, but pointed out that my own coreligionists in Egypt face real attacks too. It is a fallen world and we should do nothing to make it worse.

But to turn the other cheek to Islam is, alas, to invite a sore face.

Anglian

[resoto]

BTW the Dutch bishop that did that was retired from his job. At least the RCC showed some authority in dealing with kooks.