Bible study one chapter at a time: Book of Revelations

[geetrue]

Bible study, bible study, bible study ... everyone get out their favorite bible ...
Lets study the Book of Revelation.

One chapter at a time ... All may join in ... no doctrine here just good ole revelations.
Of course we might not all agree, but that's life, right?

I pray Father for the same Spirit that wrote the book of Revelation to be with us as we go
over the Words you have left us to comprehend. Some of us may differ, we pray for you to show us the way.
In Jesus name we pray not to be afraid, but to be ready.
Amen

The Book of Revelation
Chapter One

Who wrote the Book of Revelation?
God gave these words to His Son Jesus

In fact the real title of the book should be "The Revelation of Jesus Christ"
The first five words in the NKJV which is the version I am using right now.

Who did Jesus address the book of revelation to?
Via an angel of the Lord did Jesus send these words from the Father of our Lord to St John on the Island of Patmos around or close to 90ad. Remember the island is reported to have had no water.

St John said that he was in the Spirit on the Lord's day ... the true sabbath for Jews was friday
sunset till saturday sunset.

Not only did St John write down what he heard ... he also wrote down the visions and the things he saw.

Promise of a blessing:
Rev 1:3 "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near".

Seven Churches in Asia
St John then addresses the letter to the seven churches in Asia, now considered
to be Turkey.

Ephesus
Smyrna
Pergamos
Thyatira
Sardis
Philadelphia
Laodicea

St John teaches us to praise the Lord first:
From Him who is and who was and who is to come ...
from the seven Spirits who are before His throne ...
from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness ...
the firstborn from the dead ...
the ruler over the kings of the earth
He loved us and washed us from out sins in His own Blood ...
has made us kings and priests to His God and Father ...
to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Behold, He is coming with clouds
every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him.
And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Vision of seven golden lampstands
and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man ...
clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band
His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow ...
His eyes like a flame of fire ...
His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace ...
His voice as the sound of many waters ...
He had in His right hand seven stars ...
out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword ...
His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength

Jesus speaks to St John
“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold,
I am alive forevermore". Amen.

"I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are,
and the things which will take place after this".

The Mystery of the seven stars and the seven golden lampstands
The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

End of chapter one

Always makes me feel reverant, awake, ready to serve when I read who the book of revelation was directed to and where it came from.

That's it folks ... what do you think of the first chapter and then we'll move on?

We should put the end of the Book of Revelation warning in at this time however.

Revelation 22: 18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[cyberlizard]

i think before we can study revelation properly, we need to decide when it was written.

i have a friend called Lee Smith (http://home.clara.net/arlev) who provides really good evidence that the book was written before the destruction of the temple, and not around the turn of the century (like generally accepted). From his starting point, the book makes a lot more sense and he has some super stuff on his site about the seven churches.

If we accept it was written at the turn of the century then the book becomes more difficult to understand and we end up having to spiritualise vast portions to make it fit preconceived ideas about the future.

I suggest we read the site materials first, and the views of others and then come back to the study.

Steve

[he4rty]

Geetrue read through your post, very Interesting and Cyberlizard read through the link you gave as well It was heavy going but intriguing all the same.

Not much to comment on really from the first chapter all pretty much self explanatory, the only part I do find interesting is the prayer John opens his letter with mainly verse 7

(Rev 1:7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I find it interesting because it appears to speak of those who crucified him but also could mean those who have rejected him as it was our sins that nailed him to the cross whether we accept his forgiveness or not. So it could and most probably is referring to the time of Judgement.

Thats about all from me at the Moment

God bless you Geetrue for doing this.

[Simon_Templar]

i think before we can study revelation properly, we need to decide when it was written.

i have a friend called Lee Smith (http://home.clara.net/arlev) who provides really good evidence that the book was written before the destruction of the temple, and not around the turn of the century (like generally accepted). From his starting point, the book makes a lot more sense and he has some super stuff on his site about the seven churches.

If we accept it was written at the turn of the century then the book becomes more difficult to understand and we end up having to spiritualise vast portions to make it fit preconceived ideas about the future.

I suggest we read the site materials first, and the views of others and then come back to the study.

Steve
no offense, but I think the entire premise of the site linked is pretty bad.
*edit* More accurately, I should say, I strongly disagree with his premise regarding the nature of prophecy, as well as his reasoning regarding the date of revelations.

The stuff he sites for the dating of revelation is commonly used by preterists because their view necessitates that Revelation was written prior to the Neronian persecutions.
I would point out that one of the big problems with the arguments is that they seek to take very ambiguous, unsure ideas as support for the early writing, and thus undermine much more solid evidence for later writing.

He argues that there is internal evidence that the book was written earlier. Yet this is all really relative to your view point. Then they turn around and say that the quote from Irenaeus which outright says that John received the revelation in 95 AD and try to re-interpet it away from the way the writing has always been understood.

[Simon_Templar]

Bible study, bible study, bible study ... everyone get out their favorite bible ...
Lets study the Book of Revelations.

One chapter at a time ... All may join in ... no doctrine here just good ole revelations.
Of course we might not all agree, but that's life, right?

I pray Father for the same Spirit that wrote the book of Revelations to be with us as we go
over the Words you have left us to comprehend. Some of us may differ, we pray for you to show us the way.
In Jesus name we pray not to be afraid, but to be ready.
Amen

The Book of Revelations
Chapter One

Who wrote the Book of Revelations?
God gave these words to His Son Jesus

In fact the real title of the book should be "The Revelation of Jesus Christ"
The first five words in the NKJV which is the version I am using right now.

Who did Jesus address the book of revelations to?
Via an angel of the Lord did Jesus send these words from the Father of our Lord to St John on the Island of Patmos around or close to 90ad. Remember the island is reported to have had no water.

St John said that he was in the Spirit on the Lord's day ... the true sabbath for Jews was friday
sunset till saturday sunset.

Not only did St John write down what he heard ... he also wrote down the visions and the things he saw.

Promise of a blessing:
Rev 1:3 "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near".

Seven Churches in Asia
St John then addresses the letter to the seven churches in Asia, now considered
to be Turkey.

Ephesus
Smyrna
Pergamos
Thyatira
Sardis
Philadelphia
Laodicea

St John teaches us to praise the Lord first:
From Him who is and who was and who is to come ...
from the seven Spirits who are before His throne ...
from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness ...
the firstborn from the dead ...
the ruler over the kings of the earth
He loved us and washed us from out sins in His own Blood ...
has made us kings and priests to His God and Father ...
to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Behold, He is coming with clouds
every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him.
And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Vision of seven golden lampstands
and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man ...
clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band
His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow ...
His eyes like a flame of fire ...
His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace ...
His voice as the sound of many waters ...
He had in His right hand seven stars ...
out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword ...
His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength

Jesus speaks to St John
“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold,
I am alive forevermore". Amen.

"I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are,
and the things which will take place after this".

The Mystery of the seven stars and the seven golden lampstands
The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

End of chapter one

Always makes me feel reverant, awake, ready to serve when I read who the book of revelations was directed to and where it came from.

That's it folks ... what do you think of the first chapter and then we'll move on?

We should put the end of the Book of Revelations warning in at this time however.

Revelations 22: 18-19

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Also, while the sabbath was Saturday (from firday sunset to saturday sunset), " The Lord's day" is not a reference to the sabbath. It is well established by writings from shortly after John's day that the christians refered to sunday as the Lord's day, and distinguished this as different than the sabbath.

[geetrue]

i think before we can study revelation properly, we need to decide when it was written.

i have a friend called Lee Smith (http://home.clara.net/arlev) who provides really good evidence that the book was written before the destruction of the temple, and not around the turn of the century (like generally accepted). From his starting point, the book makes a lot more sense and he has some super stuff on his site about the seven churches.

If we accept it was written at the turn of the century then the book becomes more difficult to understand and we end up having to spiritualise vast portions to make it fit preconceived ideas about the future.

I suggest we read the site materials first, and the views of others and then come back to the study.

Steve

Destruction of the temple was 70ad and prophesied by Jesus that this would happen. St Paul and St Peter were already dead. I know St John lived a long time for Polycarp to have been his disciple. I think Polycarp lived to 54AD and he was 84 then so he was just a baby in 70AD.

Thank you for your link and suggestion that Revelations was written in 70AD ... I think the facts of who and to whom it was written are more important, plus have some of these things mentioned in the first three chapters already come to pass? When will these warnings be heeded is what our generation needs.

Here's a quote from "So that's why! Bible that adds the thought that Saint John the apostle might not even have been the St John that wrote & conveyed the Book of Revelations to us. Also remember that for reasons we do not understand the earlist manuscripts are dated to 200AD and they were copies.

With God all things are possible ... I'm just glad to be alive today and able to recieve the truth today.

Quoted from: "So that's why! Bible" NKJV
The tradition that John the apostle wrote Revelation was widely held during the 2nd century. While the author often names himself as “John,” the term “apostle” is never added, although he appears to be a man of stature in the churches (Rev. 1:1, 4, 9). He never claims to have been an eyewitness of Jesus.
There are significant differences between the Greek style of the Revelation and that of the Gospel and letters of John. In the 3rd century these variations of the original language prompted scholars to question the apostle John’s authorship of the Revelation. A debate still continues over whether the John who wrote this book is to be identified with John the apostle, John the Elder (see “The First Letter of John” at 1 John 1:1), or an otherwise unknown John.
Dating the composition of Revelation is complicated, but Nero (a.d. 54–68) and Domi-tian (a.d. 81–96) are the Roman emperors whose reigns correspond most closely with the persecutions reflected in the book. The intensity of these persecutions fits better in Domi-tian’s reign than in Nero’s.
Cargal, T. B. 2001. So that's why! Bible : New King James version. Includes indexes. Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nashville

[Simon_Templar]

Destruction of the temple was 70ad and prophesied by Jesus that this would happen. St Paul and St Peter were already dead. I know St John lived a long time for Polycarp to have been his disciple. I think Polycarp lived to 54AD and he was 84 then so he was just a baby in 70AD.

Thank you for your link and suggestion that Revelations was written in 70AD ... I think the facts of who and to whom it was written are more important, plus have some of these things mentioned in the first three chapters already come to pass? When will these warnings be heeded is what our generation needs.

Here's a quote from "So that's why! Bible that adds the thought that Saint John the apostle might not even have been the St John that wrote & conveyed the Book of Revelations to us. Also remember that for reasons we do not understand the earlist manuscripts are dated to 200AD and they were copies.

With God all things are possible ... I'm just glad to be alive today and able to recieve the truth today.

Quoted from: "So that's why! Bible" NKJV
The tradition that John the apostle wrote Revelation was widely held during the 2nd century. While the author often names himself as “John,” the term “apostle” is never added, although he appears to be a man of stature in the churches (Rev. 1:1, 4, 9). He never claims to have been an eyewitness of Jesus.
There are significant differences between the Greek style of the Revelation and that of the Gospel and letters of John. In the 3rd century these variations of the original language prompted scholars to question the apostle John’s authorship of the Revelation. A debate still continues over whether the John who wrote this book is to be identified with John the apostle, John the Elder (see “The First Letter of John” at 1 John 1:1), or an otherwise unknown John.
Dating the composition of Revelation is complicated, but Nero (a.d. 54–68) and Domi-tian (a.d. 81–96) are the Roman emperors whose reigns correspond most closely with the persecutions reflected in the book. The intensity of these persecutions fits better in Domi-tian’s reign than in Nero’s.
Cargal, T. B. 2001. So that's why! Bible : New King James version. Includes indexes. Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nashville
One of the interesting things about John the Apostle was his tremendously long life.

He wrote the book of Revelation while in exile on the Island of Patmos. His exile was imposed because the Roman emperor tried to have him killed but the roman's proved unable to kill him.
They tried boiling him in oil, and forcing him to drink poison, but both times John emerged completely unharmed. This caused the emperor and his advisors to become very afraid of John, thinking that he was a powerful sorceror, so their solution was simply to exile him and have nothing more to do with him.

John remained in exile on the Island of patmos until the end of Domition's reign, around 94-95 AD. After he was released from exile he went back to Ephasus and lived there until he disappears from history.
At the time of his last recorded presence in Ephasus, he must have been around 100 years old. This was in a time when the average life span was around 50 years.

Consider then that John, together with his brother James, was told by Jesus that he would suffer martyrdom. John faced two execution attempts both of which failed, and then he apparently lived out the rest of his life in peace dieing of extreme old age.

However, One of the traditions regarding John was that before he died he had his disciples take him out into the wilderness outside the city of ephasus and leave him. They came back later and looked for his body but found no trace of him.

Consider then that some of Jesus' last words regarding John were said to Peter "what is it to you if I will that he (john) remains until I come."

[LovebirdsFlying]

I soooo hate to nitpick, but I feel I must point out that there is no "s" in Revelation. The thought of Christians seeming ignorant of their own faith when they call it the "Book of Revelations" is disconcerting to me. I apologize and don't mean to be legalistic or petty. I just feel it's important for Christians to try to refrain from any kind of error as they study. (blush)

Non-Christians are quick to pounce on these things when they portray Christians as stupid brainwashed sheep who believe in fairy tales.

[geetrue]

I soooo hate to nitpick, but I feel I must point out that there is no "s" in Revelation. It is singular, "Revelation," not "Revelations." I apologize and don't mean to be legalistic or petty. I just feel it's important for Christians to try to refrain from any kind of error as they study. (blush)

Non-Christians are quick to pounce on these things when they portray Christians as stupid brainwashed sheep who believe in fairy tales.
That's true Lovebird wait a minute perhaps I should say Lovebirds. Seriously I made the mistake of putting the s on the end of revelations, because it is more than one.

Your right though about that ... I will go back and change the title, but I will still refer to it as multi-revelation.

By the way the book of psalms is the same way it is Psalm 1 instead of Psalms 1, but there sure are a lot of them.

Thank you Lovebird ...

[Inan3]

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified [it] by His angel unto His servant John:

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.


I love this introduction. It's precise and informative and full of love. It is God's intention and desire for His servants to understand and know the things which must shortly come to pass. "Which God gave unto Him to SHEW unto His servants" this demonstrates His Father-ly love and responsiblity towards us. He doesn't want us to miss anything.

When I study the Word I love to study first in its context and then take it apart one loving, inspired, spirit filled, strategic word at a time. I believe nothing is to be missed and if read and studied with an attitude as geetrue expressed in his opening prayer,

"I pray Father for the same Spirit that wrote the book of Revelation to be with us as we go over the Words you have left us to comprehend. Some of us may differ, we pray for you to show us the way. In Jesus name we pray not to be afraid, but to be ready.
Amen" ,

we WILL receive all that our Father intends for us to receive. We must receive it with the "same Spirit" as expressed in that prayer. That Spirit is full of love and light, the same Spirit that has been given unto us. If we try to read this with our intellect so that we can seem knowledgeable we will miss the meaning and the blessing that is upon our reading for it comes from the spirit and not the head.

I believe this is why the Lord used John in recording it. Jesus had groomed him for this time. He had a plan for him as he told Peter in Jn 21:20 ..."If I will that he tarry..." John was in God's will here on the Isle of Patmos. He had leaned upon the bosom of Jesus and become intimate with Him, not in the natural but in the spirit. He "loved" Jesus and he knew that Jesus "loved" him. He called himself "the disciple whom Jesus loved" Jn 21:20. To understand spiritual things one MUST understand love. His writings reveal that John did understand love. He said,

1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

John was a man of love and perfected in love. He wrote,

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

John was developed and exercised himself in love and because of that he was confident in God and God's love toward him. That pleases God when we believe in His love towards us. John had developed from a son of thunder into a man of love. God is Love but God also is Light. If a man "dwells in love" he "dwells in God" and therefore "dwells in light". When we walk in love we have no fear of being deceived. We will understand what the Spirit is saying unto the Churches. We will have an ear to hear Him. John was the right man to record the Book of Revelation. He did not handle the Word of God deceitfully for his own gain. He had learned to exercise himself to discern between good and evil. He was a man of love, and confidence, and spirit.....

Just as the book of Revelation is.

[geetrue]

When I study the Word I love to study first in its context and then take it apart one loving, inspired, spirit filled, strategic word at a time. I believe nothing is to be missed and if read and studied with an attitude as geetrue expressed in his opening prayer,

"I pray Father for the same Spirit that wrote the book of Revelation to be with us as we go over the Words you have left us to comprehend. Some of us may differ, we pray for you to show us the way. In Jesus name we pray not to be afraid, but to be ready.
Amen" ,

we WILL receive all that our Father intends for us to receive. We must receive it with the "same Spirit" as expressed in that prayer. That Spirit is full of love and light, the same Spirit that has been given unto us. If we try to read this with our intellect so that we can seem knowledgeable we will miss the meaning and the blessing that is upon our reading for it comes from the spirit and not the head.


Thank you Inan for your input ... I love Kay Aurthur ... I think that's her name. She started Precept Ministries and she can really get into a word by word explanation of things I would not have thought of.

That's why we have bible study for everyone to add what the Spirit is saying to them personally ... and with it being online we can be that picky.

In person we might step on someone's toes, plus it would take a long time, perhaps all night, to get through some passages in person. lol

[cyberlizard]

to all who find fault with home.clara.net/arlev and his theology, i would advise you email him and ask him his position regarding prophecy and preterism directly.

He's always up for discussion, but will not stand for opinion without evidence.

[Simon_Templar]

to all who find fault with home.clara.net/arlev and his theology, i would advise you email him and ask him his position regarding prophecy and preterism directly.

He's always up for discussion, but will not stand for opinion without evidence.
I have a good friend who is a preterist, so I've been over it all multiple times before.

In the final draw, preterism is heresy. It denies the return of Christ and the resurrection of the body.

[Tamara224]

Good stuff everyone! Excellent!


I agree with Simon on the dating of Revelation. I've done some reading on the issue and I think that it is a very weak argument for preterism. IMO.

One thing about the first chapter....

Who are the "seven Spirits" before the throne (verse 4)? I've never quite understood that. Are they literal angels? Or do the represent the Church?

A footnote at the bottom of the NIV says that instead of "seven Spirits" it might be "sevenfold Spirit." Which is an interesting twist, imo.

And then we see later on that the explanation is given for the seven stars (angels of the churches) and seven lampstands (the churches). But which one is the "seven Spirits" before the throne?

Anyone have any ideas?

[Simon_Templar]

Good stuff everyone! Excellent!


I agree with Simon on the dating of Revelation. I've done some reading on the issue and I think that it is a very weak argument for preterism. IMO.

One thing about the first chapter....

Who are the "seven Spirits" before the throne (verse 4)? I've never quite understood that. Are they literal angels? Or do the represent the Church?

A footnote at the bottom of the NIV says that instead of "seven Spirits" it might be "sevenfold Spirit." Which is an interesting twist, imo.

And then we see later on that the explanation is given for the seven stars (angels of the churches) and seven lampstands (the churches). But which one is the "seven Spirits" before the throne?

Anyone have any ideas?
I believe the sevenfold spirit is referenced elsewhere. I can't remember exactly where it is off hand, I want to say its in Isaiah, but it lists what the seven spirits are, or the seven aspects of the Spirit if you prefer. I believe it is in a prophetic sense, saying that the sevenfold Spirit will rest upon the Messiah, and then listing each aspect.
This was also symbolized in the seven flames atop the mennorah in the temple.

ok, after looking it up, its in Isaiah 11:2

And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him,
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and might,
the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.

There are seven aspects listed
Wisdom
Understanding
Council
Might
Knowledge
Fear of the Lord
and the first one listed is the over arching
"Spirit of the Lord"

[Tamara224]

I believe the sevenfold spirit is referenced elsewhere. I can't remember exactly where it is off hand, I want to say its in Isaiah, but it lists what the seven spirits are, or the seven aspects of the Spirit if you prefer. I believe it is in a prophetic sense, saying that the sevenfold Spirit will rest upon the Messiah, and then listing each aspect.
This was also symbolized in the seven flames atop the mennorah in the temple.

ok, after looking it up, its in Isaiah 11:2

And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him,
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and might,
the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.

There are seven aspects listed
Wisdom
Understanding
Council
Might
Knowledge
Fear of the Lord
and the first one listed is the over arching
"Spirit of the Lord"


Ooooh. Thanks Simon. That's exciting.

So, basically, it means the Holy Spirit? Cool.

[Inan3]

Good stuff everyone! Excellent!

Who are the "seven Spirits" before the throne (verse 4)? I've never quite understood that. Are they literal angels? Or do the represent the Church?


Anyone have any ideas?

Just a few scriptures to compare to help find out what they are.


Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, WHICH ARE the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God [B]ascending and descending on it.

Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.




As we look at these scriptures it would seem that the seven spirits are angels who are the eyes of the Lord in the earth. At one time Satan was allowed to go among them as we see in Job.

We do see the seven angels also, in Rev. 8:6, 15:1, 15:6-8, 16:1, 17:1, 21:9.

Angels are called "ministering spirits" in Heb 1:14. Psa 104:4 says He maketh His angels spirits.

So what does everyone think of this explanation?

[geetrue]

The seven (7) Spirits of God are metioned again in chapter's four and five. We will be there in no time.

Ha, ha no time? Perhaps next month.

Seriously though I have recieved from the Lord the seven Spirits of God ... I also used Isaiah 11:2,
but I prayed and prayed for what the seven spirits were.

I came up with six (6) and the seventh one didn't fall into place till over six years later.

The first six spirits I wrote down ... the Lord agreed with:

Knowledge

Understanding

Wisdom

Joy

Truth

Power

The last one that took so long was confirmed not by me, but by the Lord was the spirit of Counsel.

The word itself is in chapter 3 of the book of revelation coming up soon. Jesus said,
"Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—
and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments,
that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and
anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

I asked the Lord what it meant to have a spirit of counsel and He led me to 2 Peter 1:5-9

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence,
add to your faith virtue,
to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control,
to self-control perseverance,
to perseverance godliness,
to godliness brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness love.

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

[geetrue]

So what does everyone think of this explanation?


That's good reading Inan ... Made me think of one you forgot, but it will come to me the scripture verse that is.

The book of Chronicles I believe ...

"seeking those who seek me and rejecting those who reject me"

God's explanation of how the Holy Spirit works.

Should I dare ask, "Do we all agree that the seven Spirits of God and the Holy Spirit are very very good friends?

[Inan3]

That's good reading Inan ... Made me think of one you forgot, but it will come to me the scripture verse that is.

The book of Chronicles I believe ...

"seeking those who seek me and rejecting those who reject me"

God's explanation of how the Holy Spirit works.

Should I dare ask, "Do we all agree that the seven Spirits of God and the Holy Spirit are very very good friends?

Good friends yes, one and the same, no.

[Inan3]

Just a few scriptures to compare to help find out what they are.
[/COLOR]

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, WHICH ARE the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God [B]ascending and descending on it.

Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.




As we look at these scriptures it would seem that the seven spirits are angels who are the eyes of the Lord in the earth. At one time Satan was allowed to go among them as we see in Job.

We do see the seven angels also, in Rev. 8:6, 15:1, 15:6-8, 16:1, 17:1, 21:9.

Angels are called "ministering spirits" in Heb 1:14. Psa 104:4 says He maketh His angels spirits.

So what does everyone think of this explanation?


The more I look up scriptures and disect each word the more I believe the seven spirits ARE angels.

Let's let scripture interpret scripture.

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, WHICH ARE the seven Spirits of God.

Cross reference of lamps of fire

Dan 10:6 His body also [was] like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. (Again reference to "eyes".)

Rev 5:6 said that the Lamb had 7 horns and 7 eyes WHICH WERE the seven spirits of God SENT FORTH into all the earth

[geetrue]

The more I look up scriptures and disect each word the more I believe the seven spirits ARE angels.



What about the scripture in the old testament (I gotta go to dinner or I would look it up)
where the sons of God were gathered before His throne and one came forward.

God said, "Yes"

The son of God (which their are many I guess) says,

"I will go down and be a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets".

If the seven spirits were seven angels then the angel assigned to St John would have said so. That's what I think.

I'm out of here ... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/yes.gif
</IMG>

[Simon_Templar]

I think the seven Spirits refered to are a reference to the complete Spirit of God.

The lampstands symbolize the churches themselves, thus the seven Spirits which are the seven lampstands, I believe, is a reference to the fact that the Holy Spirit indwells the churches.

The imagery is the same through out the bible. The lampstand in the temple represented the Holy Spirit. I think the lampstands in heaven, then, also deal with the Holy Spirit.

[Inan3]

What about the scripture in the old testament (I gotta go to dinner or I would look it up)
where the sons of God were gathered before His throne and one came forward.

God said, "Yes"

The son of God (which their are many I guess) says,

"I will go down and be a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets".

If the seven spirits were seven angels then the angel assigned to St John would have said so. That's what I think.

I'm out of here ... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/yes.gif
</IMG>


Firstly, I'd like to share again with you, geetrue, and anyone else who is interested a great Bible Study download. It is free and comes with many Bible translations, concordances, dictionaries, maps, Hebrew and Greek Lexicons, and many other tools. You can find it at www.e-sword.net. You can customize with as many of these tools as you would like. It also has a place for your topic and study notes. I use it all the time and when I am on CF I keep e-sword up and copy and paste and search while I'm posting. It's a great help.

[Inan3]

What about the scripture in the old testament (I gotta go to dinner or I would look it up)
where the sons of God were gathered before His throne and one came forward.

God said, "Yes"

The son of God (which their are many I guess) says,

"I will go down and be a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets".

If the seven spirits were seven angels then the angel assigned to St John would have said so. That's what I think.

I'm out of here ... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/yes.gif
</IMG>

Isn't this great! I love fellowship in the Word! It really gets me to study the scriptures and stirs up my spirit within me.

I will share one more time what the Lord is showing me and I can only hope you will be as blessed as I. I will not belabor this though because I do not want to get too far off the subject of this study.

Those scriptures you were referring to are in 1 Kings 22 below.

1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on his right hand and on his left.
1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.


Similar scriptures are in the book of Job.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Psa 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.


It appears that the angels, sons of God, morning stars, spirits, ministers, flaming fire, are before the Lord and have definite input in the affairs of men. It seems they come before the Lord and they go to and fro in all the Earth, ascending and descending from Earth to Heaven reporting to the Lord the goings on in the Earth and looking to Him for instructions. Matthew shows us that we each have our own angel assigned to us who goes before the Father on our behalf.

I am not exactly sure what you were asking regarding the scriptures in 1 Kings but that is my take on it. :amen:

[geetrue]

Isn't this great! I love fellowship in the Word! It really gets me to study the scriptures and stirs up my spirit within me.

It appears that the angels, sons of God, morning stars, spirits, ministers, flaming fire, are before the Lord and have definite input in the affairs of men. It seems they come before the Lord and they go to and fro in all the Earth, ascending and descending from Earth to Heaven reporting to the Lord the goings on in the Earth and looking to Him for instructions. Matthew shows us that we each have our own angel assigned to us who goes before the Father on our behalf.

I am not exactly sure what you were asking regarding the scriptures in 1 Kings but that is my take on it. :amen:

Thank you for going to all of that trouble to find the reference materials ...
Yes that was the scripture in 1 Kings ... I thought it said sons of God, but it says host of heaven.
I guess sons of God can't fly so host of heaven must mean angels. Those scriptures you posted about 1 Kings is one of my favorite insights into how God thinks.

He really does care what we think. He doesn't like advice or wisdom true, but I have caught Him correcting what I think and I wasn't even praying.

I saw a mini-vision of God in heaven on His throne and the Host of heaven was gathered together in the court yard having a wine and cheese party.

This was a long time ago of course, but they had these big thin screen picture thingy's back then (took a lot longer before we got them) with all of God's problems listed like the stock market.
As the problems were being taken care of they were disappearing, with me so far.

That's when the angel slowly seperated himself from the others and started forwarded. The others said,

"Don't go up there God is not in a good mood today"

Another angel cries out,
"Don't go He might take your wings away"

The angel says, "I've have to go ... I just have to try"

He approaches the throne and everyone is getting up tight except God.

God motions for the angel to come forward ...

God's voice thunders, "Yes"

Brave angel, "I have a plan my God, my Lord, my Creator"

God's voice once again thunders, "What is your plan"?

Brave angel boldly says, "I will go down and be a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets"

God softens, "This plan is good" "You shall succeed"

The angel bows three times and backs out of there and back to his friends.

That's what really happened that day ... ;)

This Bible study is going to stir up more mysteries in the body of Christ ...
I can only wonder what some of these strange things are in Revelation (s) ...

If ya'll understand them and feel led by the Lord to explain them ... your welcome to share.

Thank you again Inan3 ... I think I'll move on to the second chapter tomorrow ... if there are no more questions about chapter one.

I can't wait to get to chapter 13 and share what God showed me several years ago.

Stay tuned remember these blessings count in heaven for reading the Book of Revelation.

[Inan3]

Stay tuned remember these blessings count in heaven for reading the Book of Revelation.

Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard [it], and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

[geetrue]

Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard [it], and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

That's good Inan ... remember fear of the Lord doesn't mean to be afraid. It means to respect Him.

About that avatar picture of Christ over looking Rio ...

Why don't you just give that to me and get another one. It surely is one of the best I've seen.

Okay, if there are no more questions ... we'll move onto chapter two.

[geetrue]

The Book of Revelation

Chapter two

Lets start with the last verse first:

Revelation 2:29
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” 

Jesus says this more than once ... when God says the same thing more than once it means that He really wants us to pay attention.

Chapter two is Christ speaking to the four of the first seven churches.
The other three are in chapter three.

Notice (have your bibles open or another window) who Jesus is saying to address. He says, "Write this to the angel at each church"

An angel must have been assigned to each church, but yet Jesus wasn't chewing out the angel was He?
He was pointing out the mistakes the people were making in each church for the most part.

Sometimes Jesus pats them on the back and then goes right into what His real concerns are.
The first three chapters are dealing with the church in the first century ... today's church could use a few letters too.

We will have to let the Holy Spirit point out our present day's church problems.

Lets try to learn from their mistakes even if it was 1,912 years ago.

Remember it is hard to make a mistake without the devil being involved too.

The church of Ephesus

Jesus starts out praising the church:

“I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil.
And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;
and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake
and have not become weary".

Jesus gets to the heart of the matter:

Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works,
or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.
But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

What was the church at Ephesus first love?

Jesus, evangelism, discerning who was good and who was evil?

Then Jesus goes on to add a very important saying that He repeats to every church
and we should all take personally today.

To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

Which includes a different promise for each church, but I take it personally ...
we have to overcome something besides bad pizza and no saturday night live.

The church in Smyrna

Jesus warns the church that some of the members are going to be thrown into prison.
“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews
and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer.
Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.

Jesus then gives a promise to all that are faithful unto death.

Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.


The church in Pergamos

Does this mean that satan had a throne in Pergamos, portable I presume.

“I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name,
and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr,
who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Jesus now rebukes the church

But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam,
who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel,
to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.

Jesus points out what he hates.

Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Jesus is not happy with this church. Repent means change or else.

Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

Now for the promise ... Is this promise for us too or was it just for the persecuted church of Pergamos?
I have always thought it was for us too, but it reads like it was just for them.

"To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows
except him who receives it.” 

The church in Thyatira

Jesus starts out with a little praise to get their attention and then lets them have it.

“I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works,
the last are more than the first".

But you have made me angry. Proves we have to be careful who our teachers are, uh?

"Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel,
who calls herself a prophetess,

Present day problems for sure.

to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent".

Jesus makes a promise and God can not lie.

"Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation,

Unless they repent ...

unless they repent of their deeds.

If they don't repent ...

I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches
the minds and hearts".

Jesus now makes a way out for those that say, "But I didn't do anything wrong"

"And I will give to each one of you according to your works".


“Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine,
who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden"

But hold fast what you have till I come.



Jesus gives the church at Thyatira a lot of promises.

These promises sound big. What is a morning star?

"And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—
as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star".

Do we get these same promises? I would like a white stone with a name no one else has on it.
I would like to have power over the nations.
I would like to have the morning star.

Do we or should we heed these warnings for ourselves?

If we shrug them off as for the first church only then we can't have the promises either.

Repent means repent no matter what century we are in, agreed?

[Inan3]

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

This scripture seems to indicate that even though, seven churches are mentioned in Chap 2 & 3, that the message given is for all church ages (saith unto the CHURCHES) and also, for the individual (HE that hath an ear).


I find it interesting that as the Lord addresses each church, He begins with "These things saith He...." and then He brings out some facet of the way He revealed Himself to us in chapter one. He then completes His dissertation to them with He that overcometh....and then takes that revelation of Himself and relates to us.

For example:

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith He that holdeth the seven stars in His right hand, Who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

relates to

Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:16 And He had in His right hand seven stars:

and in the conclusion

Rev 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Just a few thoughts because I am tired tonight but I hope that we do not rush through these chapters.

I will be busy for a couple of days so I won't be able to be own as much so I hope I'll be able to comment on these when I get back.

[he4rty]

Again some interesting points coming out of this, I'll start with two footnotes in my bible the first relates to the mention of the angel at the beginning of each letter

G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.


the second to the verse Rev 2:27 which is the same as psalms 2:9

like Inan I to noticed the facet of the lord being mentioned at the start of each letter and wondered how they related to the possible outcomes of each letter, also from the discussions of ch 1 does each of these facets of Jesus relate to the seven spirits.

thats my thoughts for now.

[Inan3]

also from the discussions of ch 1 does each of these facets of Jesus relate to the seven spirits.

thats my thoughts for now.

Hey I didn't think of that but I am going to be looking at it. Thanks.

[Inan3]

I just spent over an hour on the church of Ephesus and I lost it all. I'm going to have to wait till tomorrow now. I'm going to praise God that He is with me and will help me bring back to remembrance all that He wants me to remember. Have a good night all.

[Inan3]

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

It's interesting how the Lord says He "walks" in the midst of the seven candlesticks, the church, whereas in chapter one John made no mention of Him walking. Walketh = to tread all around, that is, walk at large (especially as proof of ability); figuratively to live, deport oneself, follow (as a companion or votary): - go, be occupied with, walk (about). It appears important to the Lord that we know He is walking about the church with the intent to be involved and that He knows what is going on at all times.

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

I want to point out that of all things that could be mentioned the Lord mentions that we try those that say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars. I would seem that He is pleased with this. Most in the church seem to shy away from doing such things as trying the spirits or checking the fruit. It seems to be the concensus that to do this is judgemental or unsubmissive or disobedient, when in fact it is a necessary function of the Body of Christ. We are to know those who have rule over us. We are to be watchful and knowledgeable in the scripture so that we can have our senses exercised to know both good and evil when it comes our way.

Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

It is possible to get so wrapped up in ministry and our chrisitan walk that we neglect what motivates us.
This term "first love" can refer to the Lord but it also, can be about our love for the brethren. As we keep ourselves and others accountable, we can cross over into judging and arguing, etc. etc. and leave the principles of loving one another as Christ loves us, which is the defining factor of our discipleship. We need to ...
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

The term Nicolaitans means "destruction or oppression of the People". This all ties together with trying those who say they are apostles and are not and keeping our first love. The Lord hates when His people are taken advantage of by leadership, such as, apostles, pastors, teachers, prophets, etc and this includes other sheep. He gives a somber warning of this in Ezk 34. He speaks to the shepherds in verses 2 - 16 and then to the flock in verses 17 - 21. He mentions the Nicolaitans again here in 15 and says it in connection with the doctrine of Balaam which put a stumbling block before His people. We always need to remember that the same Father and Lord that loves us equally loves our brethren and expects us to love and respect them as He does

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Father help us to have ears to hear all that the Spirit is saying to the churches.

[Simon_Templar]

Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

It's interesting how the Lord says He "walks" in the midst of the seven candlesticks, the church, whereas in chapter one John made no mention of Him walking. Walketh = to tread all around, that is, walk at large (especially as proof of ability); figuratively to live, deport oneself, follow (as a companion or votary): - go, be occupied with, walk (about). It appears important to the Lord that we know He is walking about the church with the intent to be involved and that He knows what is going on at all times.

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

I want to point out that of all things that could be mentioned the Lord mentions that we try those that say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars. I would seem that He is pleased with this. Most in the church seem to shy away from doing such things as trying the spirits or checking the fruit. It seems to be the concensus that to do this is judgemental or unsubmissive or disobedient, when in fact it is a necessary function of the Body of Christ. We are to know those who have rule over us. We are to be watchful and knowledgeable in the scripture so that we can have our senses exercised to know both good and evil when it comes our way.

Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

It is possible to get so wrapped up in ministry and our chrisitan walk that we neglect what motivates us.
This term "first love" can refer to the Lord but it also, can be about our love for the brethren. As we keep ourselves and others accountable, we can cross over into judging and arguing, etc. etc. and leave the principles of loving one another as Christ loves us, which is the defining factor of our discipleship. We need to ...
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

The term Nicolaitans means "destruction or oppression of the People". This all ties together with trying those who say they are apostles and are not and keeping our first love. The Lord hates when His people are taken advantage of by leadership, such as, apostles, pastors, teachers, prophets, etc and this includes other sheep. He gives a somber warning of this in Ezk 34. He speaks to the shepherds in verses 2 - 16 and then to the flock in verses 17 - 21. He mentions the Nicolaitans again here in 15 and says it in connection with the doctrine of Balaam which put a stumbling block before His people. We always need to remember that the same Father and Lord that loves us equally loves our brethren and expects us to love and respect them as He does

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Father help us to have ears to hear all that the Spirit is saying to the churches.
A note on the nicolaitans.

the only historical reference to the Nicolaitans, from the early writings of the church, tells us that they were followers of a deacon named Nicolas. These Nicolaitans were taken in by gnosticism and began teaching that what was done in the flesh had no effect on the spirit. Thus they taught that it was permissable to sin in the flesh. They began teaching particularly that it was allowable to engage in all sorts of sexual immorality and adultery since such things were only of the flesh and did not touch the spirit.

[Inan3]

Well where is our friend Geetrue? Out to sea?

Thought I'd say a little more about Rev 2

I noted that to the church at Smyrna and Philidelphia that the Lord never told them that He had someting against them nor did they need to repent.

I'll be back later but thought I'd add this little note just to let you know I'm still around and will keep checking in.

[NacDan]

seems odd that we would START a book by book, chapter by chapter study of the Bible with The Revelation of Jesus Christ to John....

Danny

[pearl1]

thanka for this. I find Revelation the hardest book to follow. I've tried reading it a few times but it doesn't always mean much to me. have people's churches done studies on this book much?

[he4rty]

seems odd that we would START a book by book, chapter by chapter study of the Bible with The Revelation of Jesus Christ to John....

Danny

There were a lot of post about revelations at the time, and some of us not really fully grasping this book thought a study would be good.