Wiki: Word of Faith forum (2)

[probinson]

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[God_Owned]

how about determining (so far as it lies within each of us) to put our words as close to the bible as possible?

let's see if we can start with the scriptures listed, write down the words of each verse, and then come up with a statement on the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 12:4-5
1 Cor 12:8-11
1 Cor 12:29-31
1 Cor 14:1
1Peter 4:10-11
Galatians 5:22-23
Romans 12:6-8
2 Tim. 1:6

see you in round two! :D


I already did that to the best of my ability, but I will take another look just for you. ;)

[J4Jesus]

B. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.

[God_Owned]

I guess these are the four choices we now have. I vote for number 4.

1. Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

We believe there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Holy Spirit is the source of them all. He alone decides which gifts each believer should have. We believe that God works thru all these gifts, that they are given to us as a means of helping the entire church, and that when used correctly they will glorify Him. 1 Cor 12:4,11; 1Peter 4:10-11

2. Gifts of the Holy Spirit

We believe in the working of all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Scripture, and that all such gifts are available for operation in the Body of Christ today. some references: 1 Cor 12:4-5,29-31, 1 Cor 14:1, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 12:6-8, 1Peter 4:10-11, 2 Tim. 1:6

3. Gifts of the Holy Spirit:

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.

4. Gifts of the Holy Spirit:

B. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.

...again, I vote for number 4.:thumbsup:

[pdudgeon]

ok, we're getting confused again.

the first part on the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit "is what we've already agreed to.

it is the second part we are working on now, called "Gifts of the Holy Spirit". We have three variations of that second part, all of which will be proceeded by the first part, called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

so each choice would look like this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#1. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Holy Spirit is the source of them all. He alone decides which gifts each believer should have. We believe that God works thru all these gifts, that they are given to us as a means of helping the entire church, and that when used correctly they will glorify Him. 1 Cor 12:4,11; 1Peter 4:10-11
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#2.The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe in the working of all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Scripture, and that all such gifts are available for operation in the Body of Christ today. some references: 1 Cor 12:4-5,29-31, 1 Cor 14:1, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 12:6-8, 1Peter 4:10-11, 2 Tim. 1:6
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#3. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit
We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and so far we have 1 vote by God_Owned for #3.

[God_Owned]

ok, we're getting confused again.

the first part on the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit "is what we've already agreed to.

it is the second part we are working on now, called "Gifts of the Holy Spirit". We have three variations of that second part, all of which will be proceeded by the first part, called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

so each choice would look like this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#1. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Holy Spirit is the source of them all. He alone decides which gifts each believer should have. We believe that God works thru all these gifts, that they are given to us as a means of helping the entire church, and that when used correctly they will glorify Him. 1 Cor 12:4,11; 1Peter 4:10-11
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#2.The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe in the working of all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Scripture, and that all such gifts are available for operation in the Body of Christ today. some references: 1 Cor 12:4-5,29-31, 1 Cor 14:1, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 12:6-8, 1Peter 4:10-11, 2 Tim. 1:6
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#3. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit
We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and so far we have 1 vote by God_Owned for #3.

okay dokey, then my vote is for Choice # 3. :thumbsup:

[J4Jesus]

The letters and numbers keep changing and its confusing. Of those choices this last part sounds more like scripture



The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11

[God_Owned]

OK, J4Jesus and I are voting for choice number 3 on Pam's last post.

[Trish1947]

Well I'm going to pass on this vote because of the last statement, These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11 or...I can stop listening to WOF Pastors that insist you step out in the giftings area. Each time I have..Gods been there to prove His word once again is true. So I can't go that way with this the way it's worded. I believe everyone has these giftings, but not all step out in faith to use them. Do all prophecy? Do all heal? Do all speak in tongues?..God's not holding one gift from anybody, but they will be manifested when someone is willing to step out in faith, and stir up those gifts within. The way it's worded it's like God's picking and choosing who will get what gift. Every single gift is received by faith, and God's not picking and choosing. The only way He is picking and choosing, is when He see's someone stepping out in faith..and what He chooses to do at that point, is honor His Word. So I just see it a little bit differenly.

[God_Owned]

Well I'm going to pass on this vote because of the last statement, These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11 or...I can stop listening to WOF Pastors that insist you step out in the giftings area. Each time I have..Gods been there to prove His word once again is true.

Are you saying that you don't believe that 1 Corinthians 12:11 is true because of what someone has taught you and your personal experiences?

1 Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.



So I can't go that way with this the way it's worded.

This is that way the Bible words it.

I believe everyone has these giftings, but not all step out in faith to use them. Do all prophecy? Do all heal? Do all speak in tongues?..God's not holding one gift from anybody, but they will be manifested when someone is willing to step out in faith, and stir up those gifts within. The way it's worded it's like God's picking and choosing who will get what gift.

Again, it is the way God words it.

Would you mind elaborating on how you see this differently that the Bible plainly states it? In one sense, if you have the Spirit and the Spirit has the gifts, then you have access to the gifts. What 1 Corinthians 12:11 is saying is you can operate in the gifts as the Spirit permits. Without the Holy Ghost's cooperation you can't operate in any of the gifts. This prevents people from abusing them or trying to exploit people through the use of them.

As far as the wording, again it is exactly what the Bible says which is our basis for WOFers accepting or rejecting something. :wave:

[J4Jesus]

Well I'm going to pass on this vote because of the last statement, These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11 or...I can stop listening to WOF Pastors that insist you step out in the giftings area. Each time I have..Gods been there to prove His word once again is true. So I can't go that way with this the way it's worded. I believe everyone has these giftings, but not all step out in faith to use them. Do all prophecy? Do all heal? Do all speak in tongues?..God's not holding one gift from anybody, but they will be manifested when someone is willing to step out in faith, and stir up those gifts within. The way it's worded it's like God's picking and choosing who will get what gift. Every single gift is received by faith, and God's not picking and choosing. The only way He is picking and choosing, is when He see's someone stepping out in faith..and what He chooses to do at that point, is honor His Word. So I just see it a little bit differenly.

Trish

You don't think that would mean the same as it says in the KJV ?

".... severally as he will. ".....

instead of

".. as he determines.")


It is 'as His wills' but its also our part like you said. We have to step out in faith. It's us co-operating with God.

Do you think the phrase 'severally as he wills "..... would be better?

[God_Owned]

Trish

You don't think that would mean the same as it says in the KJV ?

".... severally as he will. ".....

instead of

".. as he determines.")


It is 'as His wills' but its also our part like you said. We have to step out in faith. It's us co-operating with God.

Do you think the phrase 'severally as he wills "..... would be better?

Fine with me.:wave:

[Trish1947]

Trish

You don't think that would mean the same as it says in the KJV ?

".... severally as he will. ".....

instead of

".. as he determines.")


It is 'as His wills' but its also our part like you said. We have to step out in faith. It's us co-operating with God.

Do you think the phrase 'severally as he wills "..... would be better?
If you have the Holy Spirit, does He know the will of God? We can't have it both ways. Saying that it's Gods will to only will his will, to certain people how he sees fit for the gifts, doesn't make much since. Why tell people that these gifts no matter which one it is, is for you today? Why did Paul say his wish was that we come behind in no gift? Sort of presumptuous of Paul. If I tell someone that it's Gods will for them to be whole do I have to say but wait..I'll find someone with the gift of miracles? I think "severally as He will", means something different. Say, the person is asking God for a miracle, and your the only one there. Are we going to just walk off assuming I don't have the gift of miracles? It happened to me only once. A baby was born with less than half a brain. The parents ask me for a miracle, I said, "God will give you your miracle," I don't know why I said it..it just popped out. I thought "oh, my, you gone and done it now." I reached down to touch the baby to pray.. and before I could say one thing, there was a hot heat that went down through the top of my head right through the baby. They x-rayed the babys head about an hour later, the parents convienced they had seen something miraculous. The little baby had a full brain cavity. This is what I mean as severally as He will, I knew His will, God gave the working of a miracle right there. I didn't have to say a thing, it happened so fast I didn't have time to pray anything. Do I assume I have the gift for tomorrow? No. But everybody was in the right place and time for it to take place, and was willing. Has it happened that way since? No. But something totally miraculous happened that day without one prayer being said by anyone. So I think if were willing, so is He. When our wills are totally hooked up to His, His will is done, without having to choose a particular person to bestow a gift.

[J4Jesus]

Trish
That's really great! :clap:
I understand what you are saying.

But what I am saying is this:
Could you agree with this statement now, since the last part in blue is the EXACT words from scripture?
(KJV)



We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will. (1 Corinthians 12:8-11)

[Trish1947]

Trish
That's really great! :clap:
I understand what you are saying.

But what I am saying is this:
Could you agree with this statement now, since the last part in blue is the EXACT words from scripture?
(KJV)



We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will. (1 Corinthians 12:8-11)
Sorry about that...I do get going a bit don't I? :sorry: But yes, I do agree to use the scripture when ever we can.

[God_Owned]

Sorry about that...I do get going a bit don't I? :sorry: But yes, I do agree to use the scripture when ever we can.

Trish,

Just to let you know that the other one is also scripture unless you don't consider the NIV to be scripture. I chose the NIV wording because it is a little easier for most people to understand, but either way is fine with me.

1 Corinthians 12:6-11 (New International Version)
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. :wave:

[J4Jesus]

Sorry about that...I do get going a bit don't I? :sorry: But yes, I do agree to use the scripture when ever we can.
Trish
OK. So if I propose that we change this:





The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11


to this:







The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11


would that be a "yes" vote?


(Edited -correct quote)

[God_Owned]

OK. So if I propose that we change this:





The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11

to this:



The letters and numbers keep changing and its confusing. Of those choices this last part sounds more like scripture



The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11

would that be a "yes" vote?

okay dokey :)

[lyonguard]

The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11




This one looks good. I had to look up severally because I realized I didn't know what it meant. For me, it changed the meaning slightly.

[God_Owned]

lyonguard, Christina, J4Jesus and myself are all voting for this. Is this a majority, and if it is, can we validate and move to the next section now?:thumbsup:
___________

The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11

[Trish1947]

Trish
OK. So if I propose that we change this:





The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11


to this:







The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11


would that be a "yes" vote?


(Edited -correct quote)
It has my vote.

[J4Jesus]

---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#1. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Holy Spirit is the source of them all. He alone decides which gifts each believer should have. We believe that God works thru all these gifts, that they are given to us as a means of helping the entire church, and that when used correctly they will glorify Him. 1 Cor 12:4,11; 1Peter 4:10-11
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#2.The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe in the working of all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Scripture, and that all such gifts are available for operation in the Body of Christ today. some references: 1 Cor 12:4-5,29-31, 1 Cor 14:1, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 12:6-8, 1Peter 4:10-11, 2 Tim. 1:6
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#3. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit
We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and so far we have 1 vote by God_Owned for #3.

Trish
OK. So if I propose that we change this:


The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit who manifests these operations in people as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11


to this:


The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).


We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11


would that be a "yes" vote?


(Edited -correct quote)

So we have 1 and 2 and revised 3

[J4Jesus]

#1 Yes ---
No ---

#2 Yes ---
No ---

#3Yes - God_Owned, J4Jesus, Trish1947, Lyonguard
No ---


#1. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Holy Spirit is the source of them all. He alone decides which gifts each believer should have. We believe that God works thru all these gifts, that they are given to us as a means of helping the entire church, and that when used correctly they will glorify Him. (1 Cor 12:4,11; 1Peter 4:10-11 )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



#2.The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe in the working of all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Scripture, and that all such gifts are available for operation in the Body of Christ today. (1 Cor 12:4-5,29-31, 1 Cor 14:1, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 12:6-8, 1Peter 4:10-11, 2 Tim. 1:6 )


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#3. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
(1 Corinthians 12:8-11)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[pdudgeon]

ok, add me in for #3.:wave:

[DavidPresently]

Yes for #3 also. That is plenty good enough imo.

[J4Jesus]

#1 Yes ---
No ---

#2 Yes ---
No ---

#3Yes - God_Owned, J4Jesus, Trish1947, Lyonguard, Pdudgeon, DavidPresently
No ---


#1. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Holy Spirit is the source of them all. He alone decides which gifts each believer should have. We believe that God works thru all these gifts, that they are given to us as a means of helping the entire church, and that when used correctly they will glorify Him. (1 Cor 12:4,11; 1Peter 4:10-11 )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



#2.The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
We believe in the working of all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Scripture, and that all such gifts are available for operation in the Body of Christ today. (1 Cor 12:4-5,29-31, 1 Cor 14:1, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 12:6-8, 1Peter 4:10-11, 2 Tim. 1:6 )


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#3. The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
(1 Corinthians 12:8-11)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[God_Owned]

Gadzooks! Yea verily, we all seem to be of one mind. :thumbsup: ^_^


Where's Mr. Pete at? :confused:

[probinson]

I'm preoccupied... ;)

Everyone seems to like #3. So I say, sure, why not?

(That's a yes)

[J4Jesus]

I'm preoccupied... ;)

Everyone seems to like #3. So I say, sure, why not?

(That's a yes)
I know :doh: :sigh: You guys are really busy so thought I'd help out ;)


Yes - God_Owned, J4Jesus, Trish1947, Lyonguard, Pdudgeon, DavidPresently. probinson

No ---

The Baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire is a gift from God as promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers in this dispensation and is received separately from the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance (Matt. 3:11; John 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38,39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:1-4).

We believe there are diversities of operations of the Spirit working in every member of the Body of Christ today for the common good. These operations are the work of one and the same Spirit dividing to every man severally as he will.
(1 Corinthians 12:8-11)

[J4Jesus]

I can't find the wiki since this split. On the first thread I always came to it and went to discussion every time I made a post. Now I can come directly to this discussion with no wiki. This happened on another one I am working on and they had to do something becuase we were disconnected from it. Now we have 2 threads there we can talk on: one with and one without the wiki.
So where is our wiki? Do we need to get it fixed too or did we just lose track of it?

[probinson]

Wiki wiki wiki (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672300-wiki-word-of-faith-forum.html)

[J4Jesus]

Wiki wiki wiki (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672300-wiki-word-of-faith-forum.html)


Does that mean you lost it? :confused:

It does sound you "lost" it :P ^_^

Oh I get it :idea: You are calling for those things you don't have; calling those things that be not as though they were..................here....

Here wiki wiki wiki

[God_Owned]

Does that mean you lost it? :confused:

It does sound you "lost" it :P ^_^

Oh I get it :idea: You are calling for those things you don't have; calling those things that be not as though they were..................here....

Here wiki wiki wiki

Not at all.

There wiki wiki

Where wiki wiki

Only Pete knows where wiki wiki go?

[J4Jesus]

The Lord told me to go the the first thread to get it.:)

Here's the link we are disconnected on this 2nd thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5672300

The last 2 points is healing and water baptism.

After that I think we should make some specific rules about our forum and about the differences in our beliefs and others.

[God_Owned]

Next case?:clap:

[God_Owned]

I'm preoccupied... ;)

Everyone seems to like #3. So I say, sure, why not?

(That's a yes)

Why not indeed, Sir! ^_^

[J4Jesus]

When we get to healing please consider adding this reference

Acts 19:11-12

l'll forget if I dont post it now ^_^

[lyonguard]

I vote I'm healed! Woo hoo!

[DavidPresently]

Thank God for healing, Hallelujah!

And for discernment of the body broken and his stripes.

1 Corinthians 11:29-31 MKJV For he who eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks condemnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. (30) For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and many sleep. (31) For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

That is very interesting in light of how offended many today get over the healing by faith issue. I do agree it is not right to put others down who are struggling, as some become puffed up and do. But, it is correct to preach/teach the Word on the matter that one is to believe the promise and exercise their faith thereby, and that we are to judge ourselves and be humbly admitting if we have fallen short. Pride in believers keeps many from admitting they struggle with unbelief. They'd rather call the Word a liar than admit their own problem.

I find it best if I'm struggling or wrestling against unbelief in receiving, to just admit it and pray, "Lord, help me in my unbelief." An arrogant attitude never gets us anywhere with God. Arrogant flesh would rather think that God just doesn't want them healed before they'll consider that the problem is on the earth end, their end, and not the heaven end of it.

My lil sermon for the day... I think we should have that references above included in our healing references. Whether others will receive it or not, we should be a witness to all our Christian brethren that by his broken body healing is for all, but if we don't partake in it, many will be weak and sickly among us and die (early).
"By who's stripes ye HAVE BEEN healed..." glory to God!

I'm glad there are many of us brethren in the world today getting that and agreeing together with the Word on the matter! We are being reformed into a glorious church without spot or wrinkle by God's grace.

Shalom,

David

[lyonguard]

I like 1 Peter 2:24 - by His stripes you were healed and also Galatians 3:13 - we've been redeemed from the curse of the law.

There are so many OT scriptures for healing. Interesting that the OT always look forward toward to the NT - Jesus does the healing in the gospels - and there rest of the NT looks back to Jesus. That alone says a lot about the atonement.

[Trish1947]

Having been healed from MS, what a precious gift the Lord provided through His body. Taking communion, and hearing the words, " take and eat, this is my body that is broken for you," was my daily medicine during those times. I don't bother to ask why it happened. What I come to realize at the time, it was easier for me to believe for others than it was for myself. I sort of see people that are stuggeling in this area in a different light now, never to the point of compromising the truth of Gods word, but more understanding of how sickness and disease truely can weary the body and mind. Never give up on God is easy to say, when your not suffering, but God brings us to the point of let God and His Word be true, above all else.

[J4Jesus]

When we get to healing please consider adding this reference

Acts 19:11-12

l'll forget if I dont post it now ^_^

I have been healed so many times of different things I can't remember them all! Jesus is my doctor. I have only gone to the doc a few times in the last 20 years. Praise the Lord HE'S the best! :clap:


By the way this verse is about Paul using handerchiefs etc for healing. So prayer cloths are scriptural. There is more than one way for healing besides faith and laying on of hands. Anointing with oil, communion, for instance. Could we add these to this?

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672300#top)Concerning divine healing, WE BELIEVE

Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Church today (James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;)).

[DavidPresently]

I have been healed so many times of different things I can't remember them all! Jesus is my doctor. I have only gone to the doc a few times in the last 20 years. Praise the Lord HE'S the best! :clap:


By the way this verse is about Paul using handerchiefs etc for healing. So prayer cloths are scriptural. There is more than one way for healing besides faith and laying on of hands. Anointing with oil, communion, for instance. Could we add these to this?

[top] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5672300#top)Concerning divine healing, WE BELIEVE

Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, and by the laying on of hands. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Church today (James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;)).

With the praises of course, but also that healing comes through different channels God uses than just laying on of hands and anointing with oil. The word of faith is another channel. The gifts of healing, that dunamis anointing of power that flows through one into another to drive out illness are another channel. Clothes by a special anointing sent to heal the sick and cast out demons is scriptural, as is a pool of water being stirred up by an angel (though that is rare indeed - but it still can scriptural happen). I've heard of people being baptized in water and coming up healed as an angel stirred up the water. I've even seen photos that show an something invisible stirring up baptismal waters and causing healings at the same time.

So, indeed, there are various ways the Great Physician heals us, and we do well to keep the switch of faith in them all open, so we may always be receiving from any channel in our time of need. Our natural understanding tends to want to box God in, when he gives such diversity.

Thank God for all the ways in which he causes us who believe to receive healing!! Hallelujah!

I propose this or something similar as we refine it - plus the extra added references - I don't have much time to spend right now so I'm doing just a rough draft without adding the references - some help is appreciated:

Healing is for the total person in Christ and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the ministry of angels, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, etc. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;)).

[J4Jesus]

David

What were you refering to about 'ministry of angels?

[J4Jesus]

.


I propose this or something similar as we refine it - plus the extra added references - I don't have much time to spend right now so I'm doing just a rough draft without adding the references - some help is appreciated:

Healing is for the total person in Christ and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the ministry of angels, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, etc. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;)).


Thats pretty good but this IS talking about physical healing and I think it should say that. The thing about wording it this way is so many leave out the physical and emphasis spiritual and emotional.




Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the ministry of angels, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, prayer cloths, etc. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),
1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

What about this? Any discussions, revisions, additions?

[J4Jesus]

I kept the first part like it was and added your first part at the end, added my ref and the rest was as you wrote it..

[DavidPresently]

David

What were you refering to about 'ministry of angels?

I mentioned it in my post before the statement. The scriptural example of the pool being stirred up was given, and that I've heard testimonies of this happening during baptisms today.

[DavidPresently]

Thats pretty good but this IS talking about physical healing and I think it should say that. The thing about wording it this way is so many leave out the physical and emphasis spiritual and emotional.




Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the ministry of angels, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, prayer cloths, etc. Healing for the total person; body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),
1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

What about this? Any discussions, revisions, additions?

I just changed the first sentence. It includes body, but the others also, so the first part of the statement doesn't make it sound like those works for healing are ONLY for the body. They aren't, but are for the total person including the person's body.

I agree we should keep the addition of "body" in there as you suggest, because you are right, there are some who will say they believe in healing, but spiritualize it away to not being for all physical ailments.

[J4Jesus]

I agree we should keep the addition of "body" in there as you suggest, because you are right, there are some who will say they believe in healing, but spiritualize it away to not being for all physical ailments.

:amen: That was my point !


About the angels, that is so rare I don't know I would include that part. Of course this is not all inclusive either, just mentioning the most common, but God can heal in MANY ways :) . Like testimonies that I have heard HE appears himself. or even when a 'bright light' hits them or a verse just seems to saturate them.:clap:
When I got saved I realized was healed ( I was alone) and I didn't even know there was healing! ^_^

[lyonguard]

That seemed so wordy to me. Could we summarize it and then list the different methods, i.e. laying on of hands, prayer cloths, etc., in one of the subsections?

Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

[J4Jesus]

David you want to change yours in any way?
Lyonguard I dont know what other section we might put it in. We only have one more thing concerning beliefs, baptism. Then the rules.

1. Healing is for the total person in Christ and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the ministry of angels, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, etc. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;))



2. Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, prayer cloths, etc. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)


3 Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

[pdudgeon]

I'll vote for door number 3, please. :D

[pdudgeon]

concerning the present location of this wiki discussion forum...it is currently located in the Support forum.

would you all like me to move it to the ecumenical wiki forum where the first wiki is located? would that be more convenient?

let me know and i'll check back tomorrow for your answer. (and yes, i can leave a re-direct note at the curent site)

[J4Jesus]

I'll vote for door number 3, please. :D

If we summarize "door #3" ( ;) ) where would we list the methods? :scratch: (Post #50)

[God_Owned]

concerning the present location of this wiki discussion forum...it is currently located in the Support forum.

would you all like me to move it to the ecumenical wiki forum where the first wiki is located? would that be more convenient?

let me know and i'll check back tomorrow for your answer. (and yes, i can leave a re-direct note at the curent site)

Please send me a link if you move it.

[J4Jesus]

What if I shortened #2



4 Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith. Some methods are:

Laying on of hands
Anointing with oil
The gift of healing
Communion
Prayer cloths

Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

or
the same but not as a list

Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith. Some methods are laying on of hands, anointing with oil. the gift of healing, communion, prayer cloths. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

[J4Jesus]

----We only have one more thing concerning beliefs, baptism. Then the rules.

I take that back! This is general beliefs. Aren't we going to list some of our SPECIFIC beliefs that are different from others beliefs? For instance. confessing the Word, prosperity in every area of life, who we are what we have , what we can do in Christ, our righteousness of God in Christ. etc. Otherwise most pentecostals and charismatics believe the basics the same way.
One important difference is Jn 10:10. Most dont believe that

Maybe we had some on the first part of the sticky. :scratch: But not all I know.

[Trish1947]

Well here I am again. I remember so many discussions on is the spirit of man able to be healed. Prompting a debate about what part of man actually receives a healing. According to scripture the spirit of man is not capable of healing, but had to be replaced, hence born again. As the scripture says, Jer 17:9 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Jer&c=17&v=9&version=KJV#9)The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I believe if people could get past the part of a spiritual healing of an old dead spirit, we all could come to the understanding that when talking about healing, as we understand healing, it doesn't happen to an old dead spirit, that had to be made a totally new creature, but the physical part of a person.
But anyway, I'd vote for the shortened #2.

[God_Owned]

So, when do we move on to the next subject?:confused:

[DavidPresently]

Well here I am again. I remember so many discussions on is the spirit of man able to be healed. Prompting a debate about what part of man actually receives a healing. According to scripture the spirit of man is not capable of healing, but had to be replaced, hence born again. As the scripture says, Jer 17:9 (http://cf.blb.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Jer&c=17&v=9&version=KJV#9)The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I believe if people could get past the part of a spiritual healing of an old dead spirit, we all could come to the understanding that when talking about healing, as we understand healing, it doesn't happen to an old dead spirit, that had to be made a totally new creature, but the physical part of a person.
But anyway, I'd vote for the shortened #2.

Who said anything about a dead spirit needing healed instead of made new??

Isaiah 61 says that he heals the total man, not just the body. It is just as incorrect to deny the other wounds a person can have that need healed that aren't physical as it is to be among those that deny physical healing for all in the atonement.

[J4Jesus]

David you wanted to revise yours some way..:scratch: about the body? body, soul ,spirit? :confused: please post the revision.

I may change my mind, and any of us can too , but for the moment I like the short version of 2 ,which is #4.



1. Healing is for the total person in Christ and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the ministry of angels, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, etc. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;))



2. Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, prayer cloths, etc. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)



lyonguard, pdudgeon, DavidPresently

3 Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)



Trish 1947, J4Jesus

shortened version:
4 Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith. Some methods are the laying on of hands, anointing with oil. the gifts of healing, communion, prayer cloths. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

[DavidPresently]

That seemed so wordy to me. Could we summarize it and then list the different methods, i.e. laying on of hands, prayer cloths, etc., in one of the subsections?

Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

Looks good to me. I like it concise like that - so I retract my other revision of the one J4Jesus did.

[DavidPresently]

David you wanted to revise yours some way..:scratch: about the body? body, soul ,spirit? :confused: please post the revision.

I may change my mind, and any of us can too , but for the moment I like the short version of 2 ,which is #4.



1. Healing is for the total person in Christ and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the ministry of angels, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, etc. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;))



2. Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, prayer cloths, etc. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)



pdudgeon

3 Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)



Trish 1947, J4Jesus

shortened version:
4 Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith. Some methods are laying on of hands, anointing with oil. the gift of healing, communion, prayer cloths. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

I like #3 with pdudgeon.

[J4Jesus]

Looks good to me. I like it concise like that - so I retract my other revision of the one J4Jesus did.


Do you want to retract your #1 version ?

#2 was the one I did . ^_^ I'm leaving that one on there for now. In case I change my mind or others might like it ;)

[J4Jesus]

Looks good to me. I like it concise like that -----


You like it CONCISE? :eek: :swoon:

LOL that's hard to believe! :P
(Just kidding with you ;) )

[DavidPresently]

Do you want to retract your #1 version ?

#2 was the one I did . ^_^ I'm leaving that one on there for now. In case I change my mind or others might like it ;)

Unless others want it to stay.

[DavidPresently]

You like it CONCISE? :eek: :swoon:

LOL that's hard to believe!
(Just kidding with you )

I only like concise in such as the SoF. And I can be quick at times. Just look at some of my recent posts.

It is when I get to preaching that concise isn't in my vocabulary. In our weekly meeting here this last week, I preached on the covenant for 2.5 hours.

The good news is, the anointing was on me, and the power of God was in it, and so none of us realized it had been that long. When I finished my wife goes, "You just preached for two and a half hours." Everyone else almost in unison goes, "Really!? Are you sure, I didn't think it seemed very long."

Ever had the anointing on you while preaching so strong while feeling you were hooked up to a live wire of 220,000 volts that while the words came out you wondered a few times if the walls of the building would literally fall down? I could be a weirdo. If so, no problem cracking on me - I'll laugh along. I do know that after that 2.5 hours, I felt like I could sleep for a year. Until ten minutes later when we were praising in song again and this new surge of energy hit me. I love the anointing, but it can actually wear on the flesh. That was the longest I'd been under that anointing to that degree before - and seriously - at first after it felt like a year's hibernation sleep would do a body good.

The miracles God can do. I'm glad he can make this long winded preacher seem short winded. Thank you God! :D

There, I succeeded in making this a longer post than the other most recent ones - happy now?

:preach:

[J4Jesus]

Unless others want it to stay.

Let's see how it looks in the morning then we may omit one and/or two.

I didn't know you knew the word concise.;) I'm glad you are such a good sport.
I love preaching! I just think its funny a person can ask or say one thing and your reply is a sermon :D THATS GOOD! Great! :thumbsup: You are on fire and a preachin' MACHINE! ^_^ Preachers are like that , yes they are!! :clap:

[Trish1947]

Who said anything about a dead spirit needing healed instead of made new??

Isaiah 61 says that he heals the total man, not just the body. It is just as incorrect to deny the other wounds a person can have that need healed that aren't physical as it is to be among those that deny physical healing for all in the atonement.
You mis-understood my post. Being born again, of the Spirit, is not a healing of and old dead spirit. It is what the Bible says it is,.. a new creature. To imply that it's a healing of your wicked spirit is not true. That's why you won't find any scripture that says your spirit is "healed"..It's always referred to as "born again," being made a new creature, or the mystery of "Christ in you the hope of glory".. If it's just a healing, of what existed before then it's not "Christ in you, the hope of glory" but the old you just made better. Then there is no putting on the 'new man." thats made in the image of Christ. You received more than a healing. You were re-created in His image. If we want people to understand the difference in what gets healed and what gets recreated, then we should be percise about it, since people want to debate that being healed was all about the spirit.

I was responding to this selection: Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ

[DavidPresently]

You mis-understood my post. Being born again, of the spirit, is not a healing of and old dead spirit. It is what it is,.. a new creature. To imply that it's a healing of your wicked spirit is not true. That's why you won't find any scripture that says your spirit is "healed"..It's always referred to as "born again," being made a new creature, or the mystery of "Christ in you the hope of glory".. If it's just a healing, then it's not "Christ in you, the hope of glory"..Then there is no putting on the 'new man." thats made in the image of Christ. You received more than a healing. You were re-created in His image. If we want people to understand the difference in what gets healed and what gets recreated, then we should be percise about it, since people want to debate that being healed was about the spirit.

I was responding to this selection: Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ

No, I don't think I misunderstood. I get what you are saying but don't find the point necessary in the SoF we are discussing. No one is suggesting what you are concerned about.

The truth that healing is for the total person has not changed. And the statement is for BELIEVERS, not unbelievers. We are saying that BELIEVERS have access in the covenant to total personal healing. Body, mind, heart.

Isaiah 61:1-3 AMP THE SPIRIT of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed and qualified me to preach the Gospel of good tidings to the meek, the poor, and afflicted; He has sent me to bind up and heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the [physical and spiritual] captives and the opening of the prison and of the eyes to those who are bound, [Rom. 10:15.] (2) To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord [the year of His favor] and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, [Matt. 11:2-6; Luke 4:18, 19; 7:22.] (3) To grant [consolation and joy] to those who mourn in Zion--to give them an ornament (a garland or diadem) of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, the garment [expressive] of praise instead of a heavy, burdened, and failing spirit--that they may be called oaks of righteousness [lofty, strong, and magnificent, distinguished for uprightness, justice, and right standing with God], the planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.

H3820
לב
lêb
labe
A form of H3824; the heart; also used (figuratively) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything: - + care for, comfortably, consent, X considered, courag [-eous], friend [-ly], ([broken-], [hard-], [merry-], [stiff-], [stout-], double) heart ([-ed]), X heed, X I, kindly, midst, mind (-ed), X regard ([-ed)], X themselves, X unawares, understanding, X well, willingly, wisdom.

That isn't speaking of physical healing, but mental and emotional healing. I've seen God heal miraculously in these other areas in my own life and others, and nothing physically was wrong.

I've also seen spiritual wounding be healed in a believer.

There are true believers walking around with broken hearts and wounded spirits. They need healed just as much as those with physical ailments. And healing is freely available to them.

Proverbs 18:14 KJVR The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

[probinson]

Put me down for #3 also.

[Trish1947]

No, I don't think I misunderstood. I get what you are saying but don't find the point necessary in the SoF we are discussing. No one is suggesting what you are concerned about.

The truth that healing is for the total person has not changed. And the statement is for BELIEVERS, not unbelievers. We are saying that BELIEVERS have access in the covenant to total personal healing. Body, mind, heart.

Isaiah 61:1-3 AMP THE SPIRIT of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed and qualified me to preach the Gospel of good tidings to the meek, the poor, and afflicted; He has sent me to bind up and heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the [physical and spiritual] captives and the opening of the prison and of the eyes to those who are bound, [Rom. 10:15.] (2) To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord [the year of His favor] and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, [Matt. 11:2-6; Luke 4:18, 19; 7:22.] (3) To grant [consolation and joy] to those who mourn in Zion--to give them an ornament (a garland or diadem) of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, the garment [expressive] of praise instead of a heavy, burdened, and failing spirit--that they may be called oaks of righteousness [lofty, strong, and magnificent, distinguished for uprightness, justice, and right standing with God], the planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.

H3820
לב
lêb
labe
A form of H3824; the heart; also used (figuratively) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect; likewise for the centre of anything: - + care for, comfortably, consent, X considered, courag [-eous], friend [-ly], ([broken-], [hard-], [merry-], [stiff-], [stout-], double) heart ([-ed]), X heed, X I, kindly, midst, mind (-ed), X regard ([-ed)], X themselves, X unawares, understanding, X well, willingly, wisdom.

That isn't speaking of physical healing, but mental and emotional healing. I've seen God heal miraculously in these other areas in my own life and others, and nothing physically was wrong.

I've also seen spiritual wounding be healed in a believer.

There are true believers walking around with broken hearts and wounded spirits. They need healed just as much as those with physical ailments. And healing is freely available to them.

Proverbs 18:14 KJVR The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?
Well I disagree with you. Christ in us is not broken hearted, He is the healer of a broken heart. But I wont continue with this. There's nothing ill about our new created Spirit made in the image of God. As the scripture says,"we are the spirits of just men, made perfect". If your spirit is made perfect by the new birth, then is it that same spirit of Christ that gets sick? Being cast down, broken hearted, sad, etc. is a soulical condition where the emotions lie. We believe to the saving of the soul. But I will go ahead and vote for #3. since most prefer that one.

[DavidPresently]

Well I disagree with you. Christ in us is not broken hearted, He is the healer of a broken heart. But I wont continue with this. There's nothing ill about our new created Spirit made in the image of God. As the scripture says,"we are the spirits of just men, made perfect". If you spirit is made perfect by the new birth, then is it that same spirit of Christ that gets sick? Being cast down, broken hearted, sad, etc is a soulical condition. We believe to the saving of the soul. But I will go ahead and vote for #3.

You said "He is the healer of a broken heart." Exactly. We agree then.

I didn't say the spirit gets sick. I didn't say the spirit needs healed of illness. I quoted the Scripture that says WOUNDED, not ill, spirit.

These are arguments you've had that have nothing to do with what I or the statement has said: That uregenerated men of dead spirits need born again - made completely new, not just spiritually healed. I agree. That our regenerated spirit doesn't get sick. I agree. That the most common types of healing we as people need has to do with the body/soul, not the spirit. I agree.

I would like to note that the deliverance ministry uses gifts of healing. If you are in spiritual bondage or wounds, which Christians can have, then the Holy Spirit can effect deliverance and healing, which is of the spiritual type. Whether someone needs delivered from demonic bondage or sickness in the physical body, it is still the power of God that drives it out and effects that type of healing. This is why we say that the TOTAL PERSON has covenant healing, not just the body.

Again, to leave the spiritual side out is no different than those leaving the physical side out. It is still leaving part of the covenant promise out by unbelief.

[Trish1947]

You said "He is the healer of a broken heart." Exactly. We agree then.

I didn't say the spirit gets sick. I didn't say the spirit needs healed of illness. I quoted the Scripture that says WOUNDED, not ill, spirit.

These are arguments you've had that have nothing to do with what I or the statement has said: That uregenerated men of dead spirits need born again - made completely new, not just spiritually healed. I agree. That our regenerated spirit doesn't get sick. I agree. That the most common types of healing we as people need has to do with the body/soul, not the spirit. I agree.

I would like to note that the deliverance ministry uses gifts of healing. If you are in spiritual bondage or wounds, which Christians can have, then the Holy Spirit can effect deliverance and healing, which is of the spiritual type. Whether someone needs delivered from demonic bondage or sickness in the physical body, it is still the power of God that drives it out and effects that type of healing. This is why we say that the TOTAL PERSON has covenant healing, not just the body.

Again, to leave the spiritual side out is no different than those leaving the physical side out. It is still leaving part of the covenant promise out by unbelief.
O.K. David. We seem to have come full circle..all this over my post of useing of the word "healed" in relation to what takes place when were born again. LOL..

[God_Owned]

This is my offering....

Concerning divine healing, WE BELIEVE
in divine healing for all human sickness and disease has already been provided for all people by the stripes of Jesus. We do not deny that sickness and disease exists in some Christians, but we deny its right to remain there because God has provided divine healing for all sickness and disease in the atonement of Christ. Devine healing is the privilege of every member of the Church today. Devine healing is wrought by the power of God which we receive through the prayer of faith, and/or by the laying on of hands. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).:wave:

[J4Jesus]

Ok David I took#1 off

If someone wants to bump this up and add God_owns vote here, whaterever it is.
I'll be back later.




2. Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, prayer cloths, etc. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)



lyonguard, pdudgeon, DavidPresently, probinson

3 Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)



Trish 1947, J4Jesus

shortened version:
4 Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith. Some methods are the laying on of hands, anointing with oil. the gifts of healing, communion, prayer cloths. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)[/quote]

[God_Owned]

Are these the four choices?

Votes: God_Owned

1. Concerning divine healing, WE BELIEVE
in divine healing for all human sickness and disease has already been provided for all people by the stripes of Jesus. We do not deny that sickness and disease exists in some Christians, but we deny its right to remain there because God has provided divine healing for all sickness and disease in the atonement of Christ. Devine healing is the privilege of every member of the Church today. Devine healing is wrought by the power of God which we receive through the prayer of faith, and/or by the laying on of hands. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).

Votes:

2. Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith, the laying on of hands by those who believe, the anointing with oil by the elders, the gifts of healing in operation in the Body of Christ, the partaking of the broken bread of communion as symbolizing the broken body of Christ; by who's stripes we have been healed, prayer cloths, etc. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

Votes: lyonguard, pdudgeon, DavidPresently, probinson

3 Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

Votes: Trish 1947, J4Jesus

shortened version:
4 Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith. Some methods are the laying on of hands, anointing with oil. the gifts of healing, communion, prayer cloths. Healing for the total person, body, soul, and spirit is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith.(James 5:14,15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%205:14-15;&version=9;); Mark 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:18;&version=9;); Isa. 53:4,5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%2053:4-5;&version=9;); Matt. 8:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt%208:17;&version=9;); 1 Peter 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24;&version=9;),1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)[/quote]

[God_Owned]

Did I scare everyone off?:confused:

[DavidPresently]

O.K. David. We seem to have come full circle..all this over my post of useing of the word "healed" in relation to what takes place when were born again. LOL..

I still am not talking about what happened when we are born of the Spirit. You are interpreting it that way. I'm fine with you believing what you do, and not seeing what I'm talking about. We move on.

[lyonguard]

Did I scare everyone off?:confused:
We've not been given a spirit of fear!

[DavidPresently]

Did I scare everyone off?:confused:

No, but I did like your other offered wording better. I'm still keeping my vote for #3.

[Trish1947]

I still am not talking about what happened when we are born of the Spirit. You are interpreting it that way. I'm fine with you believing what you do, and not seeing what I'm talking about. We move on.
Goodnight hannah!!, David. I'm going to leave this wiki to those that seem to understand each other. I posted my response to a proposal that was posted earlier yesterday, that we have already voted on, and it has nothing to do with what you have just responded to me as being just my personal beliefs, instead of scripture. I already voted remember? Your right, moving on..with or without us understanding each other.

[pdudgeon]

ok, it looks like all the votes are in for this section of those who have been in the discussion, and the voting stands thusly:

#1. 1 vote--God_owned
#2 no votes
#3 4 votes--lyonguard, pdudgeon, DavidPresently, probinson
#4. 2 votes--Trish 1947, J4Jesus.
total: 7 votes

this is #3.
Healing is for the total person; body, soul, and spirit and is wrought by the power of God. It is provided for in the atonement of Christ, and is the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive by faith. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 12:9, 1 Corinthians 11:24-30, Acts 19:11-12)

Pete, when you're ready would you please add this to the wiki?

[pdudgeon]

the next section to be delt with concerns baptism. this is the curent statement in the wiki.

[top]Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE
Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, and is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted; to wit: "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."



whenever you are ready we can begin work on this section.:)

[probinson]

ok, it looks like all the votes are in for this section of those who have been in the discussion, and the voting stands thusly:

#1. 1 vote--God_owned
#2 no votes
#3 4 votes--lyonguard, pdudgeon, DavidPresently, probinson
#4. 2 votes--Trish 1947, J4Jesus.
total: 7 votes

this is #3.
Pete, when you're ready would you please add this to the wiki?
Okie dokie. Will do later tonight or tomorrow.

[lyonguard]

Do we need to include this part in this section? Is that something we need to include at all?

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted; to wit: "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."

[J4Jesus]

Quote:
[top]Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE
Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, and is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted; to wit: "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."

I would change that to this or something similar

Quote:
Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE

We are commanded to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost . Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, is for believers only and does not save a person. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).


Any other suggetions or ways to say this?

[God_Owned]

We've not been given a spirit of fear!


Glad to hear it. You must be one of those Believer types.^_^

[God_Owned]

Thanks J4Jesus.

See if you like my additions.

We are commanded to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost . Baptism in water by immersion is only for someone who is already born-again. It is a commandment of our Lord. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. It is an outward act which serves to confirm the inner fact of being spiritually born-again from death to life. (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

:wave:

[lyonguard]

Quote:
[top]Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE
Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, and is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted; to wit: "On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Amen."

I would change that to this or something similar

Quote:
Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE

We are commanded to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost . Baptism in water is by immersion, is a direct commandment of our Lord, is for believers only and does not save a person. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).


Any other suggetions or ways to say this?

How about these options - although they would still need wordsmithing from someone better than me.

Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE

We are directly commanded by our Lord to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Baptism in water is by immersion, is for believers only and does not save a person. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

or

We are directly commanded by our Lord to be baptized. It is to be done in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Baptism in water is by immersion, is for believers only and does not save a person. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

It seemed redundant to say commanded twice. I really like that you added the "and does not save a person" phrase. I believe it is important to add this even though we made it clear what we believe in the salvation section.

Other changes, suggestions?

[Christina M]

I'm a little late to the party..... have had some time off and didn't even see this! :blush:


I really like this one because it says it is ALREADY done .... and it doesn't deny that people are attacked with sickness.... but shows the way to get out of it.

1. Concerning divine healing, WE BELIEVE
in divine healing for all human sickness and disease has already been provided for all people by the stripes of Jesus. We do not deny that sickness and disease exists in some Christians, but we deny its right to remain there because God has provided divine healing for all sickness and disease in the atonement of Christ. Devine healing is the privilege of every member of the Church today. Devine healing is wrought by the power of God which we receive through the prayer of faith, and/or by the laying on of hands. (James 5:14,15; Mark 16:18; Isa. 53:4,5; Matt. 8:17; 1 Peter 2:24).

[J4Jesus]

PETE
I bumped this up from the last thread. You did add the first part, but forgot the other parts we worked on so long and finished that were under the main heading 'what we believe about salvation' on the original wiki. See the blue part, it's not on the wiki. Or maybe you are waiting to put it under another heading later. Just checking ;)
----
If you could please fix these link I'd appreciate it . I don't know how and they dont work .. , 1 Cor. 1:30, 1 John 1:9) The others work ok.
So with all that under this section it would read


Concerning Salvation, WE BELIEVE

We believe that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=23&version=9&context=verse)). We believe that by grace we are saved through faith, salvation can not be obtained through works, and that Jesus is the only way to receive the gift of salvation (Ephesians 2:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eph%202:8;&version=9;), John 14:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=6&version=9&context=verse), Acts 4:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%204:12;&version=47;)).


We believe that unless we are born again, we will not see the Kingdom of God, and while we were yet sinners, God demonstrated His Love for us by sending us His Son, Jesus to die for our sins (John 3:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:3;&version=9;), Romans 5:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom%205:8;&version=9;)).

We believe that when we repent, confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, that we are now justified by his blood, and shall be saved from wrath through him ( Luke 13:5, Rom 10:9-13, Rom 5:9 ).

We believe that Jesus' sacrifice for us is full and sufficient for our redemption and full restoration into right relationship with the Father, and when you have received the free gift of salvation, you become a new creature in Christ, old things are passed away and all things become new (Hebrews 7:27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Heb%207:27;&version=9;), Romans 3:21-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom%203:21-22;&version=9;), 2 Corinthians 5:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=54&chapter=5&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)).


The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification as a definite, yet progressive work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the consummation of salvation at Christ's return. As Christians, we believe if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (Heb. 12:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Heb%2012:14;&version=9;); 1 Thess. 5:23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thess%205:23;&version=9;); 2 Peter 3:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Peter%203:18;&version=9;); 2 Cor. 3:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Cor%203:18;&version=9;); Phil. 3:12-14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Phil%203:12-14;&version=9;); 1 Cor. 1:30, 1 John 1:9)



The angels said to Jesus' disciples, "...This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." His coming is imminent. When He comes, "...The dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..." Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth as King of kings, and Lord of lords, and together with His saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a thousand years.(Acts 1:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%201:11;&version=9;); 1 Thess 4:16,17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thess%204:16-17;&version=9;), Rev 5:10;20:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev%205:10;20:6;&version=9;)).



We believe that those that physically die without receiving Jesus Christ and His sacrifice has no further opportunity to hear the Gospel and repent.They are eternally lost in the lake of fire, which is literal, along with the devil, his demons, Hell and Death. (Matt 25:41,46,Hebrews 9:27, Rev. 20:10-14, Rev 21:6-8 )

[J4Jesus]

Hi Christina,

We already finshed the healing part. That would really be part of what I have below on 3 and 4
But I do believe its necessary to add a few things at the top of our Word of Faith statement and rules. specifc teachings of Word of faith that are different than others. For instance, this is a part of a rough draft my own statement of faith that I'm adding to the general part. And I'm not finish there are more but thats some basic differences.

Specific Teachings of Word of Faith:

1. We believe in confessing what God says in His Word and standing on those promises, in faith believing, even in the face or contrary circumstances, until it is manifested in the natural. (Mark 11:22-28, Matthew 8:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=8&verse=8&version=9&context=verse), .Romans 10:8-10 , Proverbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Proverbs) 18:21, )

2. Jesus died spiritually, separated from God, and was our substitute, and descended into hell because of our sins. Isaiah 53:11, Psalm 16:10, 22:17-18, Matt. 12:38-40,Matthew 27:46, Acts 2:27, 31, Ephesians 4:8-10, 1 John 4:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=4&verse=10&version=9&context=verse)

3. Every good thing comes from God and anything that kills steal and destroys is not from God , nor is it His will. (Psalm 145:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=145&verse=9&version=9&context=verse), James 1:17, John 10:10, Matthew 7:11

4. Prosperity is for all believers, for the whole man, spirit, soul, and body
Joshua 1:8, Proverbs 10:22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=24&chapter=10&verse=22&version=9&context=verse) , Psalm 35:27, Psalms 103:3, 3 John :2, GAL 3:13, Proverbs 28:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=24&chapter=28&verse=20&version=9&context=verse))


5. We are new creatures made righteous with Christ's with righteousness , and it is not of ourselves. Sinners are those who have not yet been saved. (Romans 10:10, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 21)

[J4Jesus]

------

Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE

We are directly commanded by our Lord to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Baptism in water is by immersion, is for believers only and does not save a person. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).

-------

Yes I like that better and was going to edit mine to say that but I got sidetracked at the time.

[pdudgeon]

since we're still working out the wording....

We believe that a person is not saved thru baptism, but that baptism, being commanded by our Lord, is an outward sign of a preceeding inward transformation and a conscious committment of ourselves. Thus we do not recognize the committment or intercession of others on our behalf as achieving this same purpose.
In baptism we acknowledge Jesus as our Lord and Savior and that our past sinfull life is dead and burried. We celebrate our new life as sons and daughters of God and joint heirs with Jesus.
We believe that baptism is performed by imersion, as our Lord was immersed. We are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

[J4Jesus]

slight modification?

Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE

We are directly commanded by our Lord to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Baptism in water is by immersion. It is for believers only and does not save a person,thus we do not recognize the commitment or intercession of others on our behalf as achieving this same purpose.

The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).


We believe that a person is not saved thru baptism, but that baptism, being commanded by our Lord, is an outward sign of a preceeding inward transformation and a conscious committment of ourselves. Thus we do not recognize the committment or intercession of others on our behalf as achieving this same purpose.
In baptism we acknowledge Jesus as our Lord and Savior and that our past sinfull life is dead and burried. We celebrate our new life as sons and daughters of God and joint heirs with Jesus.
We believe that baptism is performed by imersion, as our Lord was immersed. We are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

[Trish1947]

slight modification?

Concerning water baptism, WE BELIEVE

We are directly commanded by our Lord to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Baptism in water is by immersion. It is for believers only and does not save a person,thus we do not recognize the commitment or intercession of others on our behalf as achieving this same purpose.

The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Matt. 28:19; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; Acts 8:36-39).
I like this one.

Does anyone believe that it is also an act of obediance to His command, that has significance of us being buried with Him by baptism, and raised to new life in Christ. I know alot of people don't feel it necessary, but willing to show obediance to His command seems to be a terrific start.

[J4Jesus]

I like this one.

Does anyone believe that it is also an act of obediance to His command, that has significance of us being buried with Him by baptism, and raised to new life in Christ. I know alot of people don't feel it necessary, but willing to show obediance to His command seems to be a terrific start.

It is a direct command.
So many things in the Bible people think of as a 'suggestion' instead of commands :D

[Trish1947]

It is a direct command.
So many things in the Bible people think of as a 'suggestion' instead of commands :D
Well I agree with that, for sure. That was one of the first things I couldn't wait to get done.

[J4Jesus]

Well I agree with that, for sure. That was one of the first things I couldn't wait to get done.

Its exciting alright. One of the first steps in our new life :)