No, I'm not converting to Eastern Orthodoxy...

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I'm not sure why but it seems there is a systematic prejudice against Eastern Orthodoxy within this forum, despite the fact that Orthodoxy is considerably closer to Lutheran theology than Catholic. I imagine this is likely due to the fact that many of our members have since left our beloved tradition for the shores of the Bosperos.

I want to assure everyone that for all my defense of Orthodoxy and insistence on the unique compatibility of our two traditions, I am not converting to Orthodoxy. I remain convicted that the Book of Concord is the true exposition of the Scriptures and could not in good conscience join a church that fails to proclaim the gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone.

I want to make this clear to everyone in the hopes of reintegrating myself into this forum and in an attempt to ingratiate myself with my brothers in our Mighty Fortress.

Thank you.

[PreachersWife2004]

...
I want to make this clear to everyone in the hopes of reintegrating myself into this forum and in an attempt to ingratiate myself with my brothers in our Mighty Fortress.

Thank you.

That will require green jello and a casserole of some sort. :thumbsup:

[DaRev]

And coffee... don't forget the coffee! :P

[Edial]

I'm not sure why but it seems there is a systematic prejudice against Eastern Orthodoxy within this forum, despite the fact that Orthodoxy is considerably closer to Lutheran theology than Catholic. I imagine this is likely due to the fact that many of our members have since left our beloved tradition for the shores of the Bosperos.

I want to assure everyone that for all my defense of Orthodoxy and insistence on the unique compatibility of our two traditions, I am not converting to Orthodoxy. I remain convicted that the Book of Concord is the true exposition of the Scriptures and could not in good conscience join a church that fails to proclaim the gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone.

I want to make this clear to everyone in the hopes of reintegrating myself into this forum and in an attempt to ingratiate myself with my brothers in our Mighty Fortress.

Thank you.
My man ... :)

When I became a Lutheran I did not really know what it was all about.
Not an easy change.

By birth I was an Eastern Orthodox (Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church) ... who turned out to be practical Atheist and saved as a Baptist, but that's another story.

The Armenians held even a bigger torch than the Greeks and Romans, since they were the first christianized nation (301 AD) and also came all the way from the Apostles (Bartholomew).

My uncle was an Archbishop of the Armenian Church in a country of Georgia. He passed away few years back.

This post is not meant to be boastful, but sincere in saying that these guys have SO MUCH POLITICS in their ranks, it is absurd.


If one stays a Lutheran he has a Christian identity that could never be taken away.

Lutherans are rebels at heart that were saved by grace.

And there are no rebels in EO ranks. :)

Also, I REALLY appreciate your posts.
I find you to be a VERY intelligent AND a humble young man.
A rare combination.

(Not overly-humble :D :), yet still humble).

Oh well.

:)

Ed

[Lupinus]

That will require green jello and a casserole of some sort
I thought around these parts it was called a hotdish :D
And only green if it is the right color for hte season....

And coffee, you forgot coffee. I told some people at church I don't care for coffee and they looked at me like I just said a prayer to the virgin Mary.

[BigNorsk]

I'm not sure why but it seems there is a systematic prejudice against Eastern Orthodoxy within this forum, despite the fact that Orthodoxy is considerably closer to Lutheran theology than Catholic. I imagine this is likely due to the fact that many of our members have since left our beloved tradition for the shores of the Bosperos.

I want to assure everyone that for all my defense of Orthodoxy and insistence on the unique compatibility of our two traditions, I am not converting to Orthodoxy. I remain convicted that the Book of Concord is the true exposition of the Scriptures and could not in good conscience join a church that fails to proclaim the gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone.

I want to make this clear to everyone in the hopes of reintegrating myself into this forum and in an attempt to ingratiate myself with my brothers in our Mighty Fortress.

Thank you.

I don't think there's a systematic prejudice. I think what we have seen here over time is some people who had really become Orthodox still calling themselves Lutheran and trying to convince others they are basically the same only Orthodoxy is better.

If there was a systematic prejudice I think you would see threads started with the intention of attaching Orthodox beliefs and I just can't think of even one of those. What I've seen are reaction posts to some claim or another about Orthodoxy.

I do disagree with Orthodoxy, I disagree with many of the teachings about theosis, though since it seems to mean something different to every group of Orthodox it is hard to nail down. I do not accept Mary as Mediatrix. I also see Orthodoxy as still seriously infected with gnosticism with a bit of Middle East mysticism thrown in as well. I reject icons as any sort of window or capable of miracles.

I would also comment on you saying that Orthodox is closer to Lutheranism than Roman Catholicism. I would actually agree with that, but then my classification system is probably a bit unusual. Most would see Lutheranism and Catholicism as relatively close with Orthodoxy a different branch and other Protestant groups getting further away from Catholicism. Most just classify visually. If they see a similar building and the pastor wearing clericals and such they think it's like Catholicism, if it's a bunch of people rolling around barking like dogs they think it's nothing like Catholicism. But I don't classify on appearance, I classify on theology.

I would probably put Orthodoxy kind of on it's own branch, but I would put Lutheranism the furthest from Catholicism and then we see the mistakes of Catholicism creep back in and move people back to systems more like Catholicism. Reformed reintroduced rationalism and Aristotle's philosophy. Pietism came along and basically morphed into gnostics. The revivals of the 1800's brought back salvation by works and got rid of sola Scriptura.

When you get to the third wave Pentecostals, the only real disagreement they have with Catholicism is who is the Pope. Sure a lot of the derived beliefs are different, but the foundation is the same.

Marv

[Luther073082]

Does anyone know if there are any non-Lutheran churches that teach justification by grace alone through faith alone?

Oh and Gratia, make sure you feel guilty about not feeling guilty.

[DaSeminarian]

I'm not sure why but it seems there is a systematic prejudice against Eastern Orthodoxy within this forum, despite the fact that Orthodoxy is considerably closer to Lutheran theology than Catholic. I imagine this is likely due to the fact that many of our members have since left our beloved tradition for the shores of the Bosperos.

I want to assure everyone that for all my defense of Orthodoxy and insistence on the unique compatibility of our two traditions, I am not converting to Orthodoxy. I remain convicted that the Book of Concord is the true exposition of the Scriptures and could not in good conscience join a church that fails to proclaim the gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone.

I want to make this clear to everyone in the hopes of reintegrating myself into this forum and in an attempt to ingratiate myself with my brothers in our Mighty Fortress.

Thank you.


You are correct in that we have had at the very least 4 people who were once regulars here and crossed over to the Bosporous. Luther's Rose (Now Byzantine Dixie), Lotar and Danhead (now Protoevangel) and Qoheleth. While I realize to some extent that they are closer in some ways to us than Rome, in many other ways they are not.

There are still more differences than likenesses and they put a strong emphasis on Theotokos than we do. I wish my former Lutheran Brothers and Sister well, but I do not agree with them on many things now. We need to stress the differences because otherwise people will think that we are too similar to them and lose more to their church.

[Luther073082]

You know I'm probably going to get my head torn off for this but sometimes I wonder if we get ourselves caught up too much in the details.

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Does anyone know if there are any non-Lutheran churches that teach justification by grace alone through faith alone?

Oh and Gratia, make sure you feel guilty about not feeling guilty.
Calvinists, aka Reformed, aka Huegenots, aka Church of Scotland, aka nonconformists, aka Puritans, aka Congregationists, aka Presbyterians.

[NewGuy101]

Does anyone know if there are any non-Lutheran churches that teach justification by grace alone through faith alone?

Oh and Gratia, make sure you feel guilty about not feeling guilty.
Reformed Christians strongly enphesize the 5 pillars of protestanism.

Sola Gratia- Grace Alone

Sola Scriptura- Scripture Alone

Sola Fide - Faith Alone

Sola Christus - Christ Alone

Soli Deo Gloria - All Glory to God

;)

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I don't think there's a systematic prejudice. I think what we have seen here over time is some people who had really become Orthodox still calling themselves Lutheran and trying to convince others they are basically the same only Orthodoxy is better.

My observation comes from the fact that every time I bring up something that even resembles Orthodoxy, people jump all over me. That would be fine, except when I ask 'why,' I rarely get an answer. And if reason (post-judgment) isn't behind the opposition, am I to assume anything but prejudice (pre-judgment) is?

Perhaps that's too harsh and I apologize if it is. I don't mean to indict anyone individually.

I would also comment on you saying that Orthodox is closer to Lutheranism than Roman Catholicism. I would actually agree with that, but then my classification system is probably a bit unusual. Most would see Lutheranism and Catholicism as relatively close with Orthodoxy a different branch and other Protestant groups getting further away from Catholicism. Most just classify visually. If they see a similar building and the pastor wearing clericals and such they think it's like Catholicism, if it's a bunch of people rolling around barking like dogs they think it's nothing like Catholicism. But I don't classify on appearance, I classify on theology.

I would probably put Orthodoxy kind of on it's own branch, but I would put Lutheranism the furthest from Catholicism and then we see the mistakes of Catholicism creep back in and move people back to systems more like Catholicism. Reformed reintroduced rationalism and Aristotle's philosophy. Pietism came along and basically morphed into gnostics. The revivals of the 1800's brought back salvation by works and got rid of sola Scriptura.

All fair enough. Indeed, it's for theological reasons that I place Lutherans closer to Orthodoxy than Catholicism; if we were judging on apperances alone, Catholicism may be closer to us than even our closest theological brothers, the Anglicans.

I do disagree with Orthodoxy

For the record, again, as do I. Justification by grace alone through faith alone being the key issue as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree with many of the teachings about theosis

I will start another thread on this.

I do not accept Mary as Mediatrix.

Neither do the Orthodox. It's Catholics that call her Co-Mediatrix and and Co-Redemptrix, and even then not formally.

I also see Orthodoxy as still seriously infected with gnosticism with a bit of Middle East mysticism thrown in as well.

Really? Why so? I mean, sure, they're mystical, depending on how you definite mysticism. But gnostic?

I reject icons as any sort of window or capable of miracles.

Why? I'm generally suspicious of any claims to miracle-working powers, but Lutheran churches have no lack of sacred imagery.

[LilLamb219]

You know I'm probably going to get my head torn off for this but sometimes I wonder if we get ourselves caught up too much in the details.

Read about what Paul said to Timothy concerning doctrine and then ask that again ;)