What is Non-Word of Faith Mean?

[JesusIsMyBoaz]

Hello all,

I am new to the forums, and trying to learn what things mean. I was interested in your forum because I want to understand what charismatics believe.

[JAS4Yeshua]

It is just a classification to say that our beliefs differ from the Word of Faith teachings. We're all Charismatic, but we interpret certain things differently. That has caused a lot of debates between Word of Faith teachings and those who don't agree with the Word of Faith teachings.

If you are interested in what we believe, check out our wiki here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t5721783-wiki-charismatic-forum.html

[Tamara224]

To add to what JAS said... Check out the WoF forum for what they believe... We don't disagree with everything they say, but you can compare the major issues by looking at theirs and then back at this one.

[JesusIsMyBoaz]

I read the description, and I guess I still don't understand what it means. Sorry, but I guess I need simple descriptions. :)

[JAS4Yeshua]

Well, to put it simply, Charismatic is a broad term that encompasses a lot of different denominiation and non-denominational lines. The basic idea is that Charismatics believe that the Gifts of the Spirit, as described in 1 Corinthians 12, are available and usable today among believers. There are disagreements among Charismatics as to how the gifts are in use. This forum has listed some of the things we believe, which are different from what Word of Faith and some other Charismatics believe. These are things that have often brought sharp disagreements between us.

Hope this helps a little more. :)

[flyingsum0]

I read the description, and I guess I still don't understand what it means. Sorry, but I guess I need simple descriptions. :)


Bacially stick around this forum for three days...if after 3 days you dont think we're raving lunatics, you should stay...

BTW Welcome Sis :)

[JesusIsMyBoaz]

Bacially stick around this forum for three days...if after 3 days you dont think we're raving lunatics, you should stay...

BTW Welcome Sis :)
LOL I already think you're all a bunch of raving lunatics!! But so am I, so I might fit in well here. Maybe what I need to do is pretend that I am 8 years old so everyone will explain things like you would to a child. Big words scare me.. lol

Thanks for the welcome... Terri

[Tamara224]

LOL I already think you're all a bunch of raving lunatics!! But so am I, so I might fit in well here. Maybe what I need to do is pretend that I am 8 years old so everyone will explain things like you would to a child. Big words scare me.. lol

Thanks for the welcome... Terri


Hey Terri... Maybe if you could ask us specific questions about what you don't understand...

This topic covers a wide range of issues, so it's kinda hard to answer your question. We don't know for sure what exactly you want to know. :)

[jeolmstead]

I can’t speak for the whole group, but I can expound on the differences I have with some WOF people I’ve met.

As for prosperity,

I believe God prospers His people, but it’s His definition of prosperity. I believe (as any loving father) He is more concerned with my character then He is my comfort.

As for physical healing

I believe God heals and performs other miracles as He sees fit. I believe He does things because He loves us and as a sign (as in signs and wonders that follow the church). I believe God can be moved on our behalf through prayer and petition.

I do not believe that physical healing (in this life) is guaranteed in the atonement. I do believe that we are promised it in the next life. Until then, no matter how many times God does (or does not) heal me. The day will come when I will die. (Everyone who Jesus healed later died a physical death)


As for Faith

I do not believe that faith is some positive ethereal force at my beckon call if I “only believe enough”

Nor do I believe that unbelief is a negative version of the same.

Personally I think that all the faith one needs is the faith to ask God in Jesus’ name. I believe that the message of the mustard seed is not that you need great faith. The message is that you only need a little to do great things.

I do not know why God heals one and passes by the next. I think it’s wrong to tell people it’s because they lack faith.

As for Suffering

I believe everyone suffers in this life. I think that for Christians there is sometimes deliverance, other times there is peace that passes understanding and grace. I think God can use suffering as a tool to perfect me. It’s His choice. He knows what I need and I will yield myself to him.

As for Gifts of the Spirit

I believe that all the gifts as outlined in the scripture are manifest in the Body of Christ today just as in the early church. I do not think any one of them is the “evidence” of the infilling of the Spirit. I believe the infilling itself is the evidence (however God chooses to manifest that)

I do not wish any disrespect to my WOF friends. It is just that, most of these thoughts would not be thought highly of from a WOF perspective. (That is why I’m posting them here)

John O.

[JesusIsMyBoaz]

I can’t speak for the whole group, but I can expound on the differences I have with some WOF people I’ve met.

As for prosperity,

I believe God prospers His people, but it’s His definition of prosperity. I believe (as any loving father) He is more concerned with my character then He is my comfort.

As for physical healing

I believe God heals and performs other miracles as He sees fit. I believe He does things because He loves us and as a sign (as in signs and wonders that follow the church). I believe God can be moved on our behalf through prayer and petition.

I do not believe that physical healing (in this life) is guaranteed in the atonement. I do believe that we are promised it in the next life. Until then, no matter how many times God does (or does not) heal me. The day will come when I will die. (Everyone who Jesus healed later died a physical death)


As for Faith

I do not believe that faith is some positive ethereal force at my beckon call if I “only believe enough”

Nor do I believe that unbelief is a negative version of the same.

Personally I think that all the faith ones needs is the faith to ask God in Jesus’ name. I believe that the message of the mustard seed is not that you need great faith. The message is that you only need a little to do great things.

I do not know why God heals one and passes by the next. I think it’s wrong to tell people it’s because they lack faith.

As for Suffering

I believe everyone suffers in this life. I think that for Christians there is sometimes deliverance, other times there is peace that passes understanding and grace. I think God can use suffering as a tool to perfect me. It’s His choice. He knows what I need and I will yield myself to him.

As for Gifts of the Spirit

I believe that all the gifts as outlined in the scripture are manifest in the Body of Christ today just as in the early church. I do not think any one of them is the “evidence” of the infilling of the Spirit. I believe the infilling itself is the evidence (however God chooses to manifest that)

I do not wish any disrespect to my WOF friends. It is just that, most of these thoughts would not be thought highly of from a WOF perspective. (That is why I’m posting them here)

John O.
Thank you so much John. I spoke with a friend tonight about this, and we drew the same conclusions as we researched it. (She owns the local Christian Book Store). It is very good to know that my beliefs have a name.. lol I have written these things in my Personal Creed. Yes, I write this kind of stuff down. In my search for the church I am going to join, I decided to write down my beliefs and all that God has shown me.

Tonight, at the bookstore, I met a man who I classified as a WOF believer. He told me about a healing class being held at his church.

Thank you all for your help in explaining this to me.

God bless you all

Terri

[LovebirdsFlying]

I benefited from that description too.

I've always had issues with the notion that I have diabetes, arthritis, depression etc. because I "don't have enough faith" for God to heal me. I have seen people slain in the Spirit and appearing to be drunk (as did Hannah in the book of I Samuel) because they were so moved by God. But I don't believe that NOT doing those things means you're not "saved" enough, so to speak.

[TheMatmanReturns]

I can’t speak for the whole group, but I can expound on the differences I have with some WOF people I’ve met.

As for prosperity,

I believe God prospers His people, but it’s His definition of prosperity. I believe (as any loving father) He is more concerned with my character then He is my comfort.



AYE!!!!!



As for physical healing

I believe God heals and performs other miracles as He sees fit. I believe He does things because He loves us and as a sign (as in signs and wonders that follow the church). I believe God can be moved on our behalf through prayer and petition.

I do not believe that physical healing (in this life) is guaranteed in the atonement. I do believe that we are promised it in the next life. Until then, no matter how many times God does (or does not) heal me. The day will come when I will die. (Everyone who Jesus healed later died a physical death)



I differ slightly. I believe healing is in the atonement (if only because "by his stripes we are healed.") However, I believe there may be some difference between the WoF definition for healing and what the real definition is. Hence the reason even WoF people die.

What is the real definition? Frankly, I have no clue.


As for Faith

I do not believe that faith is some positive ethereal force at my beckon call if I “only believe enough”

Nor do I believe that unbelief is a negative version of the same.

Personally I think that all the faith one needs is the faith to ask God in Jesus’ name. I believe that the message of the mustard seed is not that you need great faith. The message is that you only need a little to do great things.

I do not know why God heals one and passes by the next. I think it’s wrong to tell people it’s because they lack faith.


AYE!!!


As for Suffering

I believe everyone suffers in this life. I think that for Christians there is sometimes deliverance, other times there is peace that passes understanding and grace. I think God can use suffering as a tool to perfect me. It’s His choice. He knows what I need and I will yield myself to him.



I believe there are two types of suffering... the useless kind we bring upon ourselves, and the necessary kind (which is sometimes prolonged by our own negligence, thus transforming it into the useless kind.)

I believe that if we follow the roadmap given in Scripture we can (a) avoid the useless kind, and (b) minimize our exposure to the necessary kind.



As for Gifts of the Spirit

I believe that all the gifts as outlined in the scripture are manifest in the Body of Christ today just as in the early church. I do not think any one of them is the “evidence” of the infilling of the Spirit. I believe the infilling itself is the evidence (however God chooses to manifest that)

I do not wish any disrespect to my WOF friends. It is just that, most of these thoughts would not be thought highly of from a WOF perspective. (That is why I’m posting them here)



AYE!!!!

[Jimbeaux]

What is “non-Word of Faith”? I think it means those who view with a raised eyebrow most of the stuff Kenneth Hagin Sr. taught.

~Jim


God doesn’t exist for the sake of humanity. ~C S Lewis

[ShammahBenJudah]

I have two general issues with the WOF teaching.

It eliminates God's Providence in our lives and supposedly puts Him more at our command than us at His command.

Their "Born again Jesus doctrine" reduces Jesus to less than God...Who changes not.

[geetrue]

I benefited from that description too.

I've always had issues with the notion that I have diabetes, arthritis, depression etc. because I "don't have enough faith" for God to heal me. I have seen people slain in the Spirit and appearing to be drunk (as did Hannah in the book of I Samuel) because they were so moved by God. But I don't believe that NOT doing those things means you're not "saved" enough, so to speak.


Word of faith is mostly a positive way to think and includes just about everything you can think of from prosperity to health to no fear for the flu season or the tax man ...

I can agree with a lot of the preachers that are considered Word of faith like Marilyn Hickey.

I have more rags than riches is my only real problem with Word of faith preachers.

Many people that Jesus healed had faith for their healing ... Jesus said to several people that he healed,

"Go in peace your faith has healed you"

But several got healed from other peoples faith ...

The Roman centurion ask for his servant to be healed and it was done ...

The men that lowered their friend down on a streacher through the roof ... the man got healed.

The lady who wanted Jesus to heal her daughter and Jesus said, "I have only come for the children of Israel" and she said, "but even the dogs eat the scraps from the masters table"

Go in peace your faith has healed you ... can be from the other person's well ... know what I mean.

When you ask for prayer in here for example you never really know who the one is that had faith for you comes from, but God does.

[ElderChris]

Hi ....new here ....first post. Hopefully that doesn't disqualify my opinion too much.

I agree with everything presented by jeolmstead along with the enhancements made by TheMatmanReturns with the exception of just one point. If you will permit me....

I don't think Word of Faith is defined by "tongues as evidence" as you imply. I believe that it is the standard Pentacostal stance going way back to the beginnings. In other words, it is not Word of Faith specific. I hope I am clear here.

I know there may be debate among Charismatics regarding this point however, it is clearly not a doctrine specific to the Word of Faith movement.

God Bless.

[JAS4Yeshua]

Welcome. http://eteamz.com/sites/kulit/images/welcome.gif

Yes, you are correct. I've been told by both WoF and Pentecostal that speaking in tongues as evidence does come from more Pentecostal circles. http://eteamz.com/sites/kulit/images/wink.gif

Despite our name, we aren't here to be against WoF or Pentecostal, just that some of our beliefs differ. http://eteamz.com/sites/kulit/images/smile.gif

Again, welcome to the forums, ElderChris. http://eteamz.com/sites/kulit/images/newbiggrin.gif

[NorrinRadd]

What is “non-Word of Faith”? I think it means those who view with a raised eyebrow most of the stuff Kenneth Hagin Sr. taught.

...


I think that's a fair summation, given that the late Mister Hagin was universally regarded by his fellow "Faith" preachers as the "father of the Faith Message."

Having spent several of my formative Christian years in a Faith-type Pentecostal church, I'd have to say that one doctrine that is most noticeable and most consistent among various Faith teachers is the teaching on the power of the "spoken word," sometimes called, "Positive Confession" or "Name it and Claim it" or (sarcastically) "Blab it and Grab it."

Speaking off the cuff here...

I suppose if you took standard Pentecostal doctrine, mixed in some old CMA doctrine (McMillan on the "authority of the believer," Simpson and Bosworth on both faith and healing), added some Kenyon ideas on "words" and maybe "revelation knowledge," then have the "prophet" Hagin receive all that doctrine from "Jesus" in "visions" and deliver it to the Church, you'd be fairly close to the origins of the Faith Movement.

[ANM29]

I can’t speak for the whole group, but I can expound on the differences I have with some WOF people I’ve met.

As for prosperity,

I believe God prospers His people, but it’s His definition of prosperity. I believe (as any loving father) He is more concerned with my character then He is my comfort.

As for physical healing

I believe God heals and performs other miracles as He sees fit. I believe He does things because He loves us and as a sign (as in signs and wonders that follow the church). I believe God can be moved on our behalf through prayer and petition.

I do not believe that physical healing (in this life) is guaranteed in the atonement. I do believe that we are promised it in the next life. Until then, no matter how many times God does (or does not) heal me. The day will come when I will die. (Everyone who Jesus healed later died a physical death)


As for Faith

I do not believe that faith is some positive ethereal force at my beckon call if I “only believe enough”

Nor do I believe that unbelief is a negative version of the same.

Personally I think that all the faith one needs is the faith to ask God in Jesus’ name. I believe that the message of the mustard seed is not that you need great faith. The message is that you only need a little to do great things.

I do not know why God heals one and passes by the next. I think it’s wrong to tell people it’s because they lack faith.

As for Suffering

I believe everyone suffers in this life. I think that for Christians there is sometimes deliverance, other times there is peace that passes understanding and grace. I think God can use suffering as a tool to perfect me. It’s His choice. He knows what I need and I will yield myself to him.

As for Gifts of the Spirit

I believe that all the gifts as outlined in the scripture are manifest in the Body of Christ today just as in the early church. I do not think any one of them is the “evidence” of the infilling of the Spirit. I believe the infilling itself is the evidence (however God chooses to manifest that)

I do not wish any disrespect to my WOF friends. It is just that, most of these thoughts would not be thought highly of from a WOF perspective. (That is why I’m posting them here)

John O.

I would have explained it the same way. :)

[JimfromOhio]

I always believed that Charismatic/Spirit-filled is different than WOF. I am not anti-proverty nor anti-prosperity, nor anit-healing but I am anti-selfish and anti-self-promotion. Spiritually, true prosperity is not measured in dollars and cents, as well as true healing is not measure based on earned by faith but rather it is measured by progressing in the things that I am doing according to God's will. The point for Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures is great news. Jesus purged our sins, He mediates grace to all who believe, is wonderful news for this sinful nature world. Our Messiah, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all Christians who did not reject the conviction of the Holy Spirit. God's will is for our redemption, adoption and the obtaining of our eternal inheritance in the heavenly blessings (Ephesians 3:10,11). A spirit-filled Christian wants to see other Christians above self and is happy when others are promoted and a spiritual Christian with humility is overlooked. If you desire honor and glory from God, you must display humility first. We are to be spirit-filled and spirit-lead by allowing His grace to transform us what He wants us to be. There's no envy in a person's heart; when the brethren are honored, the humbled Chrisitian is pleased because such is the will of God. If God is pleased, the humbled Christian is pleased for that reason, and if it pleases God to exalt another above a humble Christian, he/she is content to have it so. A Christian will pursue the will of God actively and be enthusiastic and the attitude toward Christ, a Christian will manifest love and burning devotion from the heart with humility.

Faith is not the ability to persuade ourselves for something we desire will come to pass if we only wish hard enough. True faith is not the ability to visualize unseen things to the satisfaction of our imperfect minds, but rather the moral power to trust Christ as Who He is.

Is our faith based on our fleshly efforts on the topic of measure of faith? Often people who take pride in their faith in God often forget humility. Being filled with the Holy Spirit means we are to refrain from using our rights and privileges we are entitled to by God's grace because we desire to do God's will out of love and obedience as if we are after God's own heart. Great faiths in the Bible were willing to let go of their rights, privileges and lives in the interests of doing God's will. If, therefore, we hope for his grace to lift us up to holiness, we must "humble (ourselves) before the Lord" (Jas 4:10). The Greek word alazoneia refers to being proud when you really have nothing to be proud about. We live in a proud and egotistical generation. "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble" (Jas 4:6, quoting Pr 3:34). God's grace is amply sufficient to enable us to live a godly life that God gives his grace only to the humble, who admit their dependence on it. If, therefore, we hope for his grace to lift us up to holiness, we must "humble before the Lord" in faith. A spiritual Christian wants to see other Christians above self and is happy when others are promoted and a spiritual Christian with humility is overlooked. Romans 15:1-7 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me." For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

I believe as a Charismatic, the Holy Spirit dwells in us with all the power and gifts of God, necessary to enable us to walk the noble, spiritual, Son-like life with God. The only way the spiritual gifts are going to operate is love. Accountability involves "one anothers" that every members are encouraged to be actively serving and ministering their gifts. Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 12:11, that these gifts are given by the Spirit that each member, no matter who he or she is, has a minimum of one gift. Often people will have more than one gift. These gifts are spiritual and that they come from heaven. Spiritual Gifts are listed in Eph. 4:11; 1 Cor. 12:8-10; 1 Cor. 12:28-30; Rom. 12:6-8; and 1 Pet. 4:11. I believe God will use whatever sources He will use around the world because He is simply God. This all come down to spiritual common sense when we are ministering others and there are gifts God will provide for us to use at HIS discrection, not ours.

Almost every denominations and non-denominations are Charismatic. Most of them do not "promote" however many of them do encourage members to use their spiritual gifts. We don't get to chose our own spiritual gifts because that's God's decision. We are to let the Holy Spirit do what He will through us and see what He does with us. 1 Corinthians 14:12 "So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church." The idea of the spiritual gifts is simply that the Lord uses that gift in a unity, in a unifying way. God will use our spiritual gifts by His Spirit as He wills.

[Redheadedstepchild]

I always believed that Charismatic/Spirit-filled is different than WOF. I am not anti-proverty nor anti-prosperity, nor anit-healing but I am anti-selfish and anti-self-promotion. Spiritually, true prosperity is not measured in dollars and cents, as well as true healing is not measure based on earned by faith but rather it is measured by progressing in the things that I am doing according to God's will. The point for Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures is great news. Jesus purged our sins, He mediates grace to all who believe, is wonderful news for this sinful nature world. Our Messiah, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all Christians who did not reject the conviction of the Holy Spirit. God's will is for our redemption, adoption and the obtaining of our eternal inheritance in the heavenly blessings (Ephesians 3:10,11). A spirit-filled Christian wants to see other Christians above self and is happy when others are promoted and a spiritual Christian with humility is overlooked. If you desire honor and glory from God, you must display humility first. We are to be spirit-filled and spirit-lead by allowing His grace to transform us what He wants us to be. There's no envy in a person's heart; when the brethren are honored, the humbled Chrisitian is pleased because such is the will of God. If God is pleased, the humbled Christian is pleased for that reason, and if it pleases God to exalt another above a humble Christian, he/she is content to have it so. A Christian will pursue the will of God actively and be enthusiastic and the attitude toward Christ, a Christian will manifest love and burning devotion from the heart with humility.

Faith is not the ability to persuade ourselves for something we desire will come to pass if we only wish hard enough. True faith is not the ability to visualize unseen things to the satisfaction of our imperfect minds, but rather the moral power to trust Christ as Who He is.




I love this post. I'm trying to comment on it, but can't think of anything to add.

[helenofbritain]

Thankyou for this informative thread!

:thumbsup: