Was Martin Luther a prophet?

[Radiata]

Inspired by the thread with a similar title, I decided to ask a question that has been bugging me. If you couldn't figure it out from this thread's title, then something’s wrong with you. ^_^ If you look at the Old Testament, a prophet was always someone who brought order back into God’s kingdom after the people turned away from Him. Luther seemed to do just that, only that people broke off of the church to follow the scriptures more literally than what the RCC was doing at the time. Other than that, he follows the patterns of other prophets. What do you think?

[filosofer]

Inspired by the thread with a similar title, I decided to ask a question that has been bugging me. If you couldn't figure it out from this thread's title, then something’s wrong with you. ^_^ If you look at the Old Testament, a prophet was always someone who brought order back into God’s kingdom after the people turned away from Him. Luther seemed to do just that, only that people broke off of the church to follow the scriptures more literally than what the RCC was doing at the time. Other than that, he follows the patterns of other prophets. What do you think?

Yes.

In Christ's love,
filo

[Luther073082]

Mehhh maybe . . . doesn't God have to speak directly to the prophet? We can't be sure if God spoke directly to Luther but it is possible.

[Tertiumquid]

The definitive work on this subject is a recent book by Lutheran scholar, Robert Kolb: Martin Luther as Prophet, Teacher, and Hero: Images of the Reformer 1520-1560 (Michigan: Baker Books, 1999). Kolb notes at times Luther referred to himself not only as a prophet, but also an apostle:

“[Luther] did not regard himself as a Herculean hero. But he did assume the epistolary style of saint Paul as early as 1522, and he drew parallels between the career of the apostle and his own career, moving out of works-righteousness into the proclamation of the gospel of God’s grace. Furthermore, he could call himself a prophet of the German, an apostle and evangelist in German territory, an Isaiah or Jeremiah. Yet Luther did not always possess this prophetic self-confidence. He often engaged in self-examination. He was plagued by repeated doubts about his own person. Yet he could also state, ‘I do not say that I am a prophet…But if I am not a prophet, I am nevertheless certain for myself that the Word of God is with me and not with them, for I indeed have Scriptures on my side.’” (p. 31)

Kolb then says:

“Luther’s concept of himself as a prophet differed, therefore, from the medieval eschatological vision of the prophet who was to come. His claims to the calling of apostle or prophet rested solely on his proclamation of the gospel. For him, what mattered was God’s word.” (p.31)

“Luther had no illusions about being an Enoch or Elijah returned from the grave…. What counted for Luther- and what linked him in his own mind with Elijah- was the Word of God in their mouths. He was firmly convinced that his tongue and pen proclaimed the same Word of God which Elijah proclaimed. Only because of this could he place himself in the ranks of prophets and apostles. Thus, much of the medieval notion of the prophet was not of importance for Luther. He claimed to possess no special gift beyond the Word which had been present in the mouths of the biblical prophets. His estimate of himself, as constructive promoter of the gospel or as destructive critic of false teaching, was only and only connected with the Word of God.” (p.31-32).

There was a strand of Lutherans, dating all the way back to the early Reformation period that saw Luther as a true, Biblical prophet. They produced books, and after Luther's death, some of them even viewed Luther's writings as the only sure way to interpret Scripture.

Regardless of what some Lutherans thought, Luther did not consider himself a prophet giving new revelation from God. When Luther proclaimed sola scriptura, he really meant it.

James Swan
Beggars All: Reformation and Apologetics (http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/)

[Luther073082]

I'd say Luther was a hero of the faith, but not a prophet.

Of course if we really want to tick the catholics off we could start referring to him as "Saint Martin Luther". te he te he

[Edial]

Inspired by the thread with a similar title, I decided to ask a question that has been bugging me. If you couldn't figure it out from this thread's title, then something’s wrong with you. ^_^ If you look at the Old Testament, a prophet was always someone who brought order back into God’s kingdom after the people turned away from Him. Luther seemed to do just that, only that people broke off of the church to follow the scriptures more literally than what the RCC was doing at the time. Other than that, he follows the patterns of other prophets. What do you think?Martin Luther could not have been a prophet as per the OT description.
He needed to be 100% correct in all that he said.
If he was not correct even on one thing, he was not a prophet.

Luther certainly had a gift of prophecy, which is a NT concept.

But prophet? No.

Thanks,
Ed

[Luther073082]

Martin Luther could not have been a prophet as per the OT description.
He needed to be 100% correct in all that he said.
If he was not correct even on one thing, he was not a prophet.

Luther certainly had a gift of prophecy, which is a NT concept.

But prophet? No.

Thanks,
Ed

Would he qualify as a protestant saint?

Saint Martin Luther has a certain ring to it.

[Edial]

Would he qualify as a protestant saint?

Saint Martin Luther has a certain ring to it.
Sure.
We could qualify about anyone we choose to be a Saint. :)
I we have anough votes ... one becomes a Saint. :holy:

[LutheranChick]

Seems to me that our Pastor said something one time that the definition of prophet is actually one who preaches the Gospel. So that would make anyone who preaches (or speaks - I am not saying it has to be a Pastor) the Gospel is a prophet.

[Lupinus]

saint, sure
prophet, no

[MezzaMorta]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5812580-martin-luther-an-antichrist.html

[Radiata]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5812580-martin-luther-an-antichrist.html
We've all seen this. What's your point? You have been told by many people in your thread that he is not the antichrist.

[Jim47]

Just more harassment and more reson to ask for another fsb from TCL.

[LilLamb219]

It's in our best interests to ignore the link or any further postings because why let it upset us? It's not worth it, guys.

[LilLamb219]

To our guests of TCL, please read our forum rules found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t5674902-master-rule-list-subject-to-change.html

[Roikirk]

I just took a quick look at the link. Your probably right LilLamb219, it is a bit vitriolic. I don't think ML hated God, just the CC

[DaSeminarian]

I just took a quick look at the link. Your probably right LilLamb219, it is a bit vitriolic. I don't think ML hated God, just the CC

Actually he didn't hate the church at all. He loved the church which is why he wanted to reform it. What he hated was the Popes and legates who put their traditions and selfish desires ahead of the church. This is part of why he saw the Pope as the Anti-christ. Not necessarily the person, but the office.

[MezzaMorta]

To our guests of TCL, please read our forum rules found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t5674902-master-rule-list-subject-to-change.html

Thanks LilLamb219, good to know that posting links to important threads does not violate the rules.

[DaRev]

Thanks LilLamb219, good to know that posting links to important threads does not violate the rules.

The key word there is "important links", not the trash that you are peddling.

[Luther073082]

Roikirk> Not that I agree that the pope or the office is the anti-christ (some here do) because I'm a non-confessional Lutheran.

But I think you have to cut him some slack especially on the pope thing. Seeming how the pope was trying to kill him constantly that may have been a big motivator to start saying things like that.

I know it wouldn't be easy for me to say nice things about the man who's trying to kill me.

[MezzaMorta]

The key word there is "important links", not the trash that you are peddling.

Well that is a matter of opinion, you are welcome to come and discuss it in the thread created. But I can't debate here so will only do so in the linked thread.

[Jim47]

Thanks LilLamb219, good to know that posting links to important threads does not violate the rules.



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Your posts here are seen as debating and are inviolation of our rules and the rules set forth by CF allowing us to have our own rules.

Please remove all of your posts along with your sock post

[Jim47]

double

[MezzaMorta]

I'm intrigued as to which one of these fine people is my alter ego?

[MezzaMorta]

Well no matter, I can ensure that none of the other people in this thread is me. I say this, not out of concern for me, but to save them the aggravation of having Jim47 thinking they are me.

Jim47, I suggest you get an IP check before you go off and subject someone to accusing them of being me and subjecting them to your treatment of me.

For their sake.

*PS, i would have PMed this to Jim47, but I am blocked from sending him PM's for some reason.

[Jim47]

Well no matter, I can ensure that none of the other people in this thread is me. I say this, not out of concern for me, but to save them the aggravation of having Jim47 thinking they are me.

Jim47, I suggest you get an IP check before you go off and subject someone to accusing them of being me and subjecting them to your treatment of me.

For their sake.

*PS, i would have PMed this to Jim47, but I am blocked from sending him PM's for some reason.


I posted that with the idea of getting your responce. Thank You ;)

[LilLamb219]

Oh, BTW, there are ways to get a totally different IP on the net and create a different account. It's been done before ;)

[Radiata]

Edit: deleted.

[LilLamb219]

referred to delete post. nevermind. :)

[Radiata]

Please don't give out the name of that program!!!
I don't have a clue what it's called, where to find it, how it works, etc. I do know that you need to do some hard core programming in order to install it on each computer because it's different process for each one. Some computers reject the program, and others you need to have extensive knowledge of programming in order to make it work. Even if you do somehow manage to get it to work, it often times crashes the computer.

[Orion567]

Mehhh maybe . . . doesn't God have to speak directly to the prophet? We can't be sure if God spoke directly to Luther but it is possible.

Not all prophets were 'foretellers' but actually 'forthtellers'. Not all prophets of the Old Testament were like Isaiah or Ezekiel receiving revelation of things to come. The majority of prophets actually were just people like you and me that pointed their people back to God and made known what the people had forgot. Being a prophet is not as flashy as many make it to be. Luther was a prophet in respect to the fact that he attempted to bring the people back to a right relationship with God through the preaching of the Cross of Christ. He used the Holy Word to show all from the Papacy to the common man what The Gospel IS and thus edified the body to understand what Christ came to do. Not all received the preaching with belief, but Luther did the commision of a prophet in this way.