personal relationship

[bigJerm]

sometimes i seriously wonder if im really born again...ok alot actually.

when i hear about the personal relationship with Jesus it still seems like i dont have that. i understand that through repentance his spirit indwells mine by faith. otherwise i am just following a set of rules. does the spirit leading me into truth and convicting me of sin prove this?. i dont know. the personal relationship language still sounds misleading to me. almost as if im supposed to have a dialogue with God where we have these casual conversations with each other. maybe im still the natural man because i dont understand that stuff. i dont know but im sure sick of doubting.

[twistedsketch]

The "personal relationship" bit comes from Revelation 3:20. What that is going to look like may not be what people who just hear the advertising expect. The relationship takes place through prayer and faith. Obedience is a "love language" that the Lord insists on (Luke 6:46, John 14:15) as well. So, yes, there is a relationship there, but it manifests itself in religious action. When we look at Abraham, who had an actual two-way friendship with God (those are very rare in Scripture, I believe only he and the apostles share that title in the whole Bible) these three dimensions to their relationship - prayer, faith, and obedience - are recurring themes. For an in-depth exploration of the topic, Henry Blackaby's "Created To Be God's Friend" is a Biblical look at the nuts and bolts of a relationship - a friendship - with God. I took the class at my church, and it helped me. It doesn't really get into things like assurance of salvation, forgiveness, answered prayer, etc that new Christians need though.

[Elijah2]

Life is hard, just to have a personal realtionship with a human and your love one's around you, is hard enough.

Have you a good relationship with your friends and family?

Now, most of us who haven't a great worldly friendship, really struggles at times with their relationship with HIM.

When, I am having a hard time with life and earthly things it becomes a real struggle. But, I know that things will be better tomorrow, and the next day.

Being a Christian isn't easy, and really sometimes I wonder the same as you do. But, my personal experiences of HIM and HIS signs and wonders are the only thing that keeps me going.

So, don't think in any way that you are a failure, because you are not. HE is there, HE will hold you in HIS ARMS, and in the palm of HIS HANDS, but please don't think that Christian life is all rosy, because it's not. It's a "race of endurance"!

[PowderedGold]

Do you love God as your Father and Mother? Do you love Christ as your friend? Those are two powerful relationships. I think that if you feel such love, you are already having a personal relationship with God.

Imagine God is a soldier and you're a soldier's wife. Every day, you write him a letter and send it off where he is fighting. Because of the war, your husband is not able to reply directly to your letters, but still his love for you is being sent through the invisible channels of the heart that connect two people. Even without direct communication, that is a very strong relationship.

[bigJerm]

actually my father left when i was 9 and my mother is a confessing christian who pretty much discarded me as well at age 16....been on my own since......so i dont know tooo much about parental love....not a good reference point

[PowderedGold]

I didn't mean, "Do you love God as you love your literal mother and literal father?"

I meant, "Do you love God as the one who gave you life, taught you when you were curious, nurtured you when you were sick, comforted you when you were grieving, etc.?"

Do you love God as the ultimate parent? That's probably a better way of phrasing it.

[bigJerm]

i cant really say that i "feel" love towards God....honestly im so frustrated with my life and all these obstacles and now dealing with the flesh....i cant really say im all full of gushy
christian love....im probably more like that ungrateful child at christmas......hasnt really been any love in my life on earth....ive had women tell me how much they were in love with me.....but i didnt care....i guess my heart
is just hard

[AllTalkNoAction]

sometimes i seriously wonder if im really born again...ok alot actually.
It's good to be honest!
Jesus assures that you will "know the day" you receive Him by receiving the Spirit (John 14:17-20), Acts shows that the sign of speaking in tongues was taken as the sign of this (Acts 2:4, 33; 10:44-46, compare John 3:8). Other signs follow at other times, as the need arises.
Tongues is allowing the Holy Spirit to lead you in prayer according to The Fathyer's perfect will for you! (Romans 8:26, 1 Cor. 14:2, 4)


when i hear about the personal relationship with Jesus it still seems like i dont have that. I felt exactly the same way, then I met people who were not going to different churches and reading lots of books about God, they had a confidence and contentment I had not attained to, despite my efforts. I realised my relationship with God was mostly one-way, from me, not the daily, growing 2-way relationship they seemed to have. They had received the Holy Spirit, I hadn't.


i understand that through repentance his spirit indwells mine by faith. well, many people are repentant & sorry & acknowledge they are sinners, but only God judges that you are truly repentant . . .
Ac:11:15: And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost . . .
:18: When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
. . . God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us (15:8, compare Acts 10 & 2, quoted above)

maybe im still the natural man because i dont understand that stuff..Yes, but the good news is God can & will change that tonight, if you allow him.

Here's another testimony:-
I spoke to Josh, 15 from America.
He had seen TV-evangelists speak in tongues in front of the camera which is wrong and he saw no purpose to it, but he was intreagued.
I told Him it's God leading a person in prayer (God knows best), he asked how he goes about this, I told him to close his eyes (to stop distractions) and *expect* God to *do* what Acts describes. He said:-
"ok I'll give it a go, can you wait 5 minutes ?"
I said "Ok"

15 seconds later he typed "wow!"
and described the strange words coming from him.... he was amazed how easy it was...
well of course he did as Jesus says:- "enter as a little child" !

He asked me to stay takling & answering questions, so I did. I mentioned:-
John:7:37: In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
:38: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

He said hed read that before, but NOW he appreciated it!

24 hours later I chat with him again:-
He's already been busy - prayed for a friend with a problem that went 10mins later, and started talking to his dad, they had not spoken in 2 years because dad is a "conservative" and Josh was rebelling against society, he was punk with green hair. . . .now he is beginning to see he has a better message to give society.

[bigJerm]

yeah i dont know what im supposed to do with all that....ive prayed all these prayers for the holy spirit etc.....

[PowderedGold]

Do you want a personal relationship with God? Do you want to feel gushy Christian love for God? Do you want to feel the Holy Spirit inside you?

[heymikey80]

i cant really say that i "feel" love towards God....honestly im so frustrated with my life and all these obstacles and now dealing with the flesh....i cant really say im all full of gushy
christian love....
You strike nerves so well, bJ. I'm sorry this is so long.

While it's good to have a heart softened to God, feeling His push on our lives, gushing emotion is not "the love of Christ"'s most prominent feature. As you may notice from the Crucifixion, it would be impossible to have a gushing outpouring of love-sentiment from that experience. The love of Christ ... well the love of Christ hurts. Sometimes it hurts just because He's getting it healing.

There are also obstacles, there are frustrations, there are realities that impede even the best of us. We're all damaged goods. It's easy to philosophize about that. It's hard to come to real terms with it. Some days the frustration with my own background really ticks me off, too.

Much of this frustration is actually a part of my relationship with God. I'm bringing Him cracked pieces of me. But He's not leaving me because of my problems. He's made the full commitment to me. He's very familiar with my sinfulness -- no surprise to Him. But He's choosing what damage to deal with, when. It'd be great for my psyche and sense of self-control if I could deal with it on my timetable. But I've found my senses can feel things are right -- but they're wrong. It's hard for me to explain.

Often when I'm struggling with my own corruption I find my need for others is the greatest, for relationships that can heal and stabilize my feelings. Because my feelings are corrupted, too. It's easier for me to detach from others than to relate with others. Relationships are risky. It was there I found my greatest need was to heal my relational damage, just so God could work more directly with me.

As to how God relates to me, I remember at first hearing other people teaching to big groups of us newBs in Christ. I really wasn't aware of anything but, "Hey, this bit seems to be talking about me." I think now He was listening and talking to me through them. Then I started noticing the same thing about certain paragraphs of Scripture. And then I found the the same Scripture "highlighting" different things in my life at different times, too. Different meanings came through.

Only one time did I ever hear a voice straight out of what I think was from the Spirit, and it was chilling, and scary, and humbling, and I don't really like to think about it. Some people think that's a "gushing" thing to talk about. It was no "still small voice" for me. Maybe I just needed it. It was not a comfortable feeling. it was a relief just to submit to it. Somehow I can't believe Elijah's "still small voice" was that inviting either, after a couple of tornados -- he covered his face for a reason.
im probably more like that ungrateful child at christmas......hasnt really been any love in my life on earth....ive had women tell me how much they were in love with me.....but i didnt care....i guess my heart is just hard
There's a book I've been going through recently. I don't know if it'll help or not. It's called "The Imitation of Christ", by Thomas a Kempis. Maybe you can find it at a local library and test drive it. Paul's smaller church letters are also goldmines, but sometimes the words rush by misunderstood as "gushing" as you say. But after I study it gushes on some things that cripple me, that make me feel weak over it. I'm not sure I could explain why, without "making the words rush by."

[bigJerm]

sorry man ..dont mean to hit on your nerves.......i just have alot of questions.....im prone to self doubt and relying on my own logic......faith is hard for me because it is beyond logic..........all i can do is try to compare my experiences with those of others.....mine just doesnt seem to match up......that book sounds good...maybe ill check it

[PowderedGold]

sorry man ..dont mean to hit on your nerves.......i just have alot of questions.....im prone to self doubt and relying on my own logic......faith is hard for me because it is beyond logic

We have a lot in common. By trying to strengthen your faith, I'm trying to strengthen my own as well.

You should read what HeyMikey says carefully. He is good at explaining things to slow-witted guys like me.

[AllTalkNoAction]

sorry man ..dont mean to hit on your nerves.......i just have alot of questions.....im prone to self doubt and relying on my own logic......faith is hard for me because it is beyond logic..........all i can do is try to compare my experiences with those of others.....mine just doesnt seem to match up......that book sounds good...maybe ill check itNo the greek word for "the word" is logos, where we get logic.

Believing in God is perfect logic. You have to become as a child - God is God so find out what he offers and go for it!

You have God's book and people that have what it says, they are "living epistles".

[bigJerm]

i believe in God...there is just alot of intangible things that people seem to get mixed up with feelings and love ...and then its like oh you cant go by feelings you have to go by faith....ok..so if im not "feeling" the kind of love everyone else claims am i legitimate?

[AllTalkNoAction]

i believe in God...Then do it his way, desire and expect to receive what God's word details (see post #8)

[heymikey80]

i believe in God...there is just alot of intangible things that people seem to get mixed up with feelings and love ...and then its like oh you cant go by feelings you have to go by faith....ok..so if im not "feeling" the kind of love everyone else claims am i legitimate?
It's not based on feelings per se -- but it can well produce different feelings longterm, which you'll have to check, then.

But it is about relying on Him -- which can produce the exact opposite feelings at first (fear, anxiety, fear of surprise or being let down, memories of pain). We've reason to think those feelings will change as you come to connect with God more and more.

[bigJerm]

one thing i have noticed is how i feel when i do sin.....i cant enjoy it anymore....i end up feeling all dirty and disconnected and condemned...feeling like i closed heavens doors and opened the gates of hell

[heymikey80]

Wow, good. That's one result of recognizing our sins, and that's great you've got that. It can get unbalanced. Say you're not getting feelings of reconciliation with confession and turning back from sin. That's tougher. Feelings from sinning can just set you up for you to feel more and more disconnected from God.

For this to stay on balance I have to keep reading and reading Scripture to hear Christ's words in the start of John 8, or Paul at the end of Romans 8, or John at the end of 1 John 1 (and a whole lot of 1 John, but I use a late translation like ESV).

[bigJerm]

yeah...its like when you fall you realize that youve chosen that condemnation over the constant refreshment or grace......i just hope i can quit returning to my vomit