Anointed?

[searchingforpeace]

What does it mean when you hear someone say someone else is anointed? I have heard say a Pastor say this about another Pastor. I have been told that it is very bad to not agree with someone who is anointed....but b/c someone is anointed, which I still doesn't know what that means, I can't see that meaning their teachings are always correct.

Dianna

[james415]

What does it mean when you hear someone say someone else is anointed? I have heard say a Pastor say this about another Pastor. I have been told that it is very bad to not agree with someone who is anointed....but b/c someone is anointed, which I still doesn't know what that means, I can't see that meaning their teachings are always correct.

Dianna

If they are not part of the duo then they are groupies

Anointed is a Contemporary Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_Christian_music) music duo consisting of siblings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siblings) Steve and Da'dra Crawford. Their musical style includes elements of R&B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%26B), funk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk), and piano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano)ballads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballad). The group has won seven Dove Awards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMA_Dove_Awards), two Stellar Awards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Awards) and three Grammy Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award) nominations.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anointed#_note-JFH_News#_note-JFH_News)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anointed#_note-Nissi_CD#_note-Nissi_CD) The group has also been featured on several Christian compilation albums such as Real Life Music, 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_in_music) and WOW The 90s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW_The_90s).

On a serious note:

Exodus 40:12 "Bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and wash them with water. 13 Then dress Aaron in the sacred garments, anoint him and consecrate him so he may serve me as priest. 14 Bring his sons and dress them in tunics. 15 Anoint them just as you anointed their father, so they may serve me as priests. Their anointing will be to a priesthood that will continue for all generations to come." 16 Moses did everything just as the LORD commanded him.

It is hard to say what it has become today but here is the Webster Definition:

Anointed:
To apply oil, ointment, or a similar substance to.
To put oil on during a religious ceremony as a sign of sanctification or consecration.
To choose by or as if by divine intervention.

Consecration:
1. the act of consecrating; dedication to the service and worship of a deity.
2. the act of giving the sacramental character to the Eucharistic elements of bread and wine, esp. in the Roman Catholic Church.
3. ordination to a sacred office, esp. to the episcopate.

Sanctify:
1. to make holy; set apart as sacred; consecrate.
2. to purify or free from sin: Sanctify your hearts.
3. to impart religious sanction to; render legitimate or binding: to sanctify a vow.
4. to entitle to reverence or respect.
5. to make productive of or conducive to spiritual blessing.

[Godiswithus]

What does it mean when you hear someone say someone else is anointed? I have heard say a Pastor say this about another Pastor. I have been told that it is very bad to not agree with someone who is anointed....but b/c someone is anointed, which I still doesn't know what that means, I can't see that meaning their teachings are always correct.

Dianna
about the "it is very bad to not agree with someone who is anointed" part, i don't believe that it true.
actually i think such people are often gifted with a specific spiritual gift . So in fact, i think they are just as likely to make mistakes by using their gifts for purposes other than what God gave them that specific gift for.
thus there is no reason why we shouldn't disagree and/or evaluate them using our bibles.

[searchingforpeace]

So if someone has spiritual gifts they are anointed? Does someone know if they are anointed? I still don't understand.

[soulfinder]

I would like also to point out here that you yourself have an annointing from God:

1John 2

27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will[e] abide in Him.

So if you ever hear something that sounds wroung, it may be the Spirit of the Lord showing you. If this happens, just go and ask Jesus Christ, and He can show you the truth.

[soulfinder]

You are annointed if you have recieved the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit).

[searchingforpeace]

I would like also to point out here that you yourself have an annointing from God:

1John 2

27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will[e] abide in Him.

So if you ever hear something that sounds wroung, it may be the Spirit of the Lord showing you. If this happens, just go and ask Jesus Christ, and He can show you the truth.


Thank you for that scripture.

[searchingforpeace]

You are annointed if you have recieved the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit).

Well I don't know if I have...I mean how does one really know if they have no spiritual gifts? Or once saved does the Holy Spirit come on someone? Sorry but I have always found this to confuse me.

[Tavita]

Well I don't know if I have...I mean how does one really know if they have no spiritual gifts? Or once saved does the Holy Spirit come on someone? Sorry but I have always found this to confuse me.

The anointing doesn't initially mean you have gifts. To be anointed of God means you have accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus dying on your behalf and you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. The gifts are given according to the will of the Holy Spirit. Some people have gifts that are very obvious and stand out, and are 'showy', others have gifts that are hidden to the eye and are not at all showy. One gift is not any more important to God than another. It's whatever HE chooses to give you.

But first of all realize that the anointing is IN you because you have the Holy Spirit. Pastors may or may not have the gift of ascension called 'pastor'. Some men just decide they want to be a pastor without it being given to them by Holy Spirit. They (any Pastor) is no more anointed than what you or any other person in church is. If they have been given the gift of being a pastor then they have the anointing for that job. But, it's no better than whatever gift you may have. They are not 'above' you.

Be careful not to fall under the spiritual abuse of some leaders who tell you that you must obey them, and can't question them, because they are anointed. I have often heard it from the pulpit, 'touch not God's anointed', as if they are untouchable. Please don't listen to it. It's abuse of their position and abuse of the 'sheep'.

[james415]

To be anointed of God means you have accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus dying on your behalf and you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Here is a verse that seems to back up what you are saying. This is out of a letter from Paul to the Corinthian congregation but I’m sure it applies to all who accept Jesus Christ as their savior.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

[Tavita]

Here is a verse that seems to back up what you are saying. This is out of a letter from Paul to the Corinthian congregation but I’m sure it applies to all who accept Jesus Christ as their savior.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.


Exactly! :thumbsup:

Great verse!

I also like your post #2.

[james415]

Well I don't know if I have...I mean how does one really know if they have no spiritual gifts? Or once saved does the Holy Spirit come on someone? Sorry but I have always found this to confuse me.

All we are and do is a Spiritual Gift from God. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Read 1 Corinthians 12 for more about spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

[New_Wineskin]

What does it mean when you hear someone say someone else is anointed? I have heard say a Pastor say this about another Pastor. I have been told that it is very bad to not agree with someone who is anointed....but b/c someone is anointed, which I still doesn't know what that means, I can't see that meaning their teachings are always correct.

Dianna

That is a doctrine used by leaders to obtain absolute control over their people . Of course , you see *them* break the doctrine time and time again as they go after each other . Hypocracy is at the heart of the doctrine . It also ignores that leaders lead by serving - not serve by leading . This doctrine leads to cultish activity .

We are *all* annointed . The Lord is the *only* mediator between us and the Father . All the rest of us are equal .

[tturt]

Just like there are different aspects of faith, there are different anointings. For example, some singers do not sing that well when compared to other singers yet their singing is anointed. Can't you hear it sometimes?

[tapero]

Well I don't know if I have...I mean how does one really know if they have no spiritual gifts? Or once saved does the Holy Spirit come on someone? Sorry but I have always found this to confuse me.

When one believes in Christ the Holy Spirit indwells us:


13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.


The above verse also shows we never lose our salvation. So, once you believed the Holy Spirit indwelled you and you are sealed, and can never lose salvation.

We all have gifts when we come to Christ. Some are the gifts we had before Christ, which God now uses to His glory. Some are gifts given, a couple examples below.

Some gifts are commonly seen in countries where the church is growing, such as China, a persecuted country. Whereas healing is not a common thing to see in usa, I have read of healings occuring, however, it was not because a man performed a healing, but because Christ healed someone (the one I read of as regards church growth in China.)

Some gifts have passed away and are no longer. However, again, in countries where the book of Acts is occuring today as in the bible, it is common to see many gifts.

Tongues is a foreign language, and if one speaks in tongues, one must be there to interpret so that all hearing would be edified. Doubt this gift occurs much today; as is not needed, but may well occur where many are gathered who speak different languages.

Prophecy in this day and age, is one who preaches the word of God, though some believe they are prophets and fortell; this I do not believe. So, we all are prophets in that sense, since many times, we teach or preach the word of God in various ways.

Prophets in the old testament were those who heard from God and were told to tell His people or other people what God had said.

Again, I don't believe such occurs today. We have the bible, so beware if someone says they fortell or were given a special message from God for you. I was told something on CF, don't recall what, by someone who believes he's a prophet. Not only did it not line up with God word, there was no benefit nor truth nor edification to what was said, so beward such as some do claim to be prophets.

In countries where there is no bibles allowed, prophecy does occur, that is a teaching of Gods word given the person, but what is said, will be in the bible, and not a strange teaching.

Some may say, I have a vision or was told by Christ to do thus or thus. Let them do that for themselves, but again, when someone tries to tell you you must do thus and thus because of something they believe they've been told, I would be wary. However, you may not be aware of certain things, and other believers can make you aware, and say such; wow, did you realize you are a good teacher, etc, and give you an awareness you might never have had before.

Many people get into gifts in an unhealthy way; saying if one doesn't have the gift they have then something is wrong with you. This is not right, nor true, and there is no need, but ask God for what you need, and he gives as you need.

Many Christians don't concern themselves with gift, but use the abilities they have to help the body of Christ, without even being aware they are gifted in that way.

So, there is no need to know what you are gifted in, as you are actually using the gifts all the time.

Some churches give out helps to help determine where your gifts are; which can be helpful, but again, one is already using their gifts, many times unaware; it is just a natural part of them to do many things.

If you like to teach, then your gift may be teaching, same with preaching, same with helping others, etc.

Some say you must be filled with the Holy Spirit, etc.

We already are filled with the Holy Spirit, but a futher filling is more so as we read the word, or are serving, or singing or anything that draws us closer to God. We can sometimes, but not always sense the Spirit, as we may be watching TV and the Holy Spirit brings a verse to mind and helps resolve a question one has, and it happens out of the blue many times, but again each is different.

So, for example, when reading, singing, praying etc, I might feel (hate to use that word) but feel a joy, from such, and this is an example of the filling of the Holy Spirit. That does not stay with someone, but comes and goes with our walk with God, as we go thru many things in our walk with God.

We all are to serve others, so, I guess I'm just saying, no need to have great concern or even any over gifts, as many do.

Some even say one isn't saved if they don't have certain gifts, which is a lie.

Anyway, here's a few scriptures below, but not exhaustive; on gifts.


We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=12&version=31#fen-NIV-28237b)]faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.



4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=12&version=31#fen-NIV-28629a)] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=12&version=31#fen-NIV-28629b)] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. 12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=12&version=31#fen-NIV-28632c)] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
.

[Dave01]

Most people do not understand this specific anointing,..


18 (AV) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,


There was a difference here. We do receive the anointing inside of us, but here Jesus is talking about The Holy Spirit being upon Him.

There was also another distinction,..


1 ¶ (AV) And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

14 ¶ (AV) And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.


Jesus was not in power until after His time of temptation, so something took place between these events.

Also, this anointing upon was spoken of by David,..


5 (AV) Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.


So I guess people can take it or leave it. If they want to experience this sort of anointing, they will reach for it till they have it.

As far as the teaching about "touch not mine anointed" I think it is overabused by folks who are not actually anointed this way.

[searchingforpeace]

The anointing doesn't initially mean you have gifts. To be anointed of God means you have accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus dying on your behalf and you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. The gifts are given according to the will of the Holy Spirit. Some people have gifts that are very obvious and stand out, and are 'showy', others have gifts that are hidden to the eye and are not at all showy. One gift is not any more important to God than another. It's whatever HE chooses to give you.

But first of all realize that the anointing is IN you because you have the Holy Spirit. Pastors may or may not have the gift of ascension called 'pastor'. Some men just decide they want to be a pastor without it being given to them by Holy Spirit. They (any Pastor) is no more anointed than what you or any other person in church is. If they have been given the gift of being a pastor then they have the anointing for that job. But, it's no better than whatever gift you may have. They are not 'above' you.

Be careful not to fall under the spiritual abuse of some leaders who tell you that you must obey them, and can't question them, because they are anointed. I have often heard it from the pulpit, 'touch not God's anointed', as if they are untouchable. Please don't listen to it. It's abuse of their position and abuse of the 'sheep'.

That is exactly what I was told 'touch not God's anointed' from a Pastor once and even the other day when on a group I asked about an tv preacher...

Dianna

[searchingforpeace]

Here is a verse that seems to back up what you are saying. This is out of a letter from Paul to the Corinthian congregation but I’m sure it applies to all who accept Jesus Christ as their savior.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Thanks for sharing the scripture. :)

Dianna

[searchingforpeace]

All we are and do is a Spiritual Gift from God. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Read 1 Corinthians 12 for more about spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

I read it last night :) After I got off the computer I started looking for information. Something more I will study. I appreciate the help and verse :) Thank you :)

[searchingforpeace]

That is a doctrine used by leaders to obtain absolute control over their people . Of course , you see *them* break the doctrine time and time again as they go after each other . Hypocracy is at the heart of the doctrine . It also ignores that leaders lead by serving - not serve by leading . This doctrine leads to cultish activity .

We are *all* annointed . The Lord is the *only* mediator between us and the Father . All the rest of us are equal .


I think I am trying to figure out what all I have been taught what has been hypocracy and what is the truth.

[searchingforpeace]

Just like there are different aspects of faith, there are different anointings. For example, some singers do not sing that well when compared to other singers yet their singing is anointed. Can't you hear it sometimes?

How is their singing anointed over someone else's? Not real clear on this.

[searchingforpeace]

When one believes in Christ the Holy Spirit indwells us:


The above verse also shows we never lose our salvation. So, once you believed the Holy Spirit indwelled you and you are sealed, and can never lose salvation.

We all have gifts when we come to Christ. Some are the gifts we had before Christ, which God now uses to His glory. Some are gifts given, a couple examples below.

Some gifts are commonly seen in countries where the church is growing, such as China, a persecuted country. Whereas healing is not a common thing to see in usa, I have read of healings occuring, however, it was not because a man performed a healing, but because Christ healed someone (the one I read of as regards church growth in China.)

Some gifts have passed away and are no longer. However, again, in countries where the book of Acts is occuring today as in the bible, it is common to see many gifts.

Tongues is a foreign language, and if one speaks in tongues, one must be there to interpret so that all hearing would be edified. Doubt this gift occurs much today; as is not needed, but may well occur where many are gathered who speak different languages.

Prophecy in this day and age, is one who preaches the word of God, though some believe they are prophets and fortell; this I do not believe. So, we all are prophets in that sense, since many times, we teach or preach the word of God in various ways.

Prophets in the old testament were those who heard from God and were told to tell His people or other people what God had said.

Again, I don't believe such occurs today. We have the bible, so beware if someone says they fortell or were given a special message from God for you. I was told something on CF, don't recall what, by someone who believes he's a prophet. Not only did it not line up with God word, there was no benefit nor truth nor edification to what was said, so beward such as some do claim to be prophets.

In countries where there is no bibles allowed, prophecy does occur, that is a teaching of Gods word given the person, but what is said, will be in the bible, and not a strange teaching.

Some may say, I have a vision or was told by Christ to do thus or thus. Let them do that for themselves, but again, when someone tries to tell you you must do thus and thus because of something they believe they've been told, I would be wary. However, you may not be aware of certain things, and other believers can make you aware, and say such; wow, did you realize you are a good teacher, etc, and give you an awareness you might never have had before.

Many people get into gifts in an unhealthy way; saying if one doesn't have the gift they have then something is wrong with you. This is not right, nor true, and there is no need, but ask God for what you need, and he gives as you need.

Many Christians don't concern themselves with gift, but use the abilities they have to help the body of Christ, without even being aware they are gifted in that way.

So, there is no need to know what you are gifted in, as you are actually using the gifts all the time.

Some churches give out helps to help determine where your gifts are; which can be helpful, but again, one is already using their gifts, many times unaware; it is just a natural part of them to do many things.

If you like to teach, then your gift may be teaching, same with preaching, same with helping others, etc.

Some say you must be filled with the Holy Spirit, etc.

We already are filled with the Holy Spirit, but a futher filling is more so as we read the word, or are serving, or singing or anything that draws us closer to God. We can sometimes, but not always sense the Spirit, as we may be watching TV and the Holy Spirit brings a verse to mind and helps resolve a question one has, and it happens out of the blue many times, but again each is different.

So, for example, when reading, singing, praying etc, I might feel (hate to use that word) but feel a joy, from such, and this is an example of the filling of the Holy Spirit. That does not stay with someone, but comes and goes with our walk with God, as we go thru many things in our walk with God.

We all are to serve others, so, I guess I'm just saying, no need to have great concern or even any over gifts, as many do.

Some even say one isn't saved if they don't have certain gifts, which is a lie.

Anyway, here's a few scriptures below, but not exhaustive; on gifts.



.

Thank you. A lot to take in from your response, but I am. :) I have had some people say that if you do not show certain signs of gift you are not saved. I know that is not true. I was talking to a friend about this yesterday, she sent me to a link with test for gifts, I was a bit leary in taking it but I figured, why not...funny how it said my gifts were things I already do...which goes along with things you said here.

[searchingforpeace]

Most people do not understand this specific anointing,..



There was a difference here. We do receive the anointing inside of us, but here Jesus is talking about The Holy Spirit being upon Him.

There was also another distinction,..



Jesus was not in power until after His time of temptation, so something took place between these events.

Also, this anointing upon was spoken of by David,..



So I guess people can take it or leave it. If they want to experience this sort of anointing, they will reach for it till they have it.

As far as the teaching about "touch not mine anointed" I think it is overabused by folks who are not actually anointed this way.

Thank you for those verses :)

[tturt]

We need the gifts and all gifts are in operation today.

[New_Wineskin]

I think I am trying to figure out what all I have been taught what has been hypocracy and what is the truth.

Good idea . I started that 15 years ago . It is amazing how many doctrines don't pass the tests they say that you should give doctrines ( including those doctrines about tests ) .

[searchingforpeace]

Good idea . I started that 15 years ago . It is amazing how many doctrines don't pass the tests they say that you should give doctrines ( including those doctrines about tests ) .

I found over time I kept getting into churches that it wasn't about what God's word said, it was about what the Pastor said. Since I am seeking out a new church, relying fully on God's word is what I am doing now...learning what His word says.

[Tavita]

I found over time I kept getting into churches that it wasn't about what God's word said, it was about what the Pastor said. Since I am seeking out a new church, relying fully on God's word is what I am doing now...learning what His word says.

That's great! :thumbsup:

[searchingforpeace]

That's great! :thumbsup:

Well I can't let myself get mixed into a church where God's word isn't preached. It has made my Christian walk a difficult one, confusing,and a lot of times without joy....and I won't let that happen again.

[Tavita]

Well I can't let myself get mixed into a church where God's word isn't preached. It has made my Christian walk a difficult one, confusing,and a lot of times without joy....and I won't let that happen again.

I sure hope you CAN find a church that preaches the whole counsel of God. It'll be difficult but with God all things are possible. IF you truly want to be part of a church organisation then you will have to come to a place inside yourself where it doesn't matter if they're not perfect, you are able to be there for others. And you will need to know inside yourself what is truth and what isn't if you hope to stand up to all the false teachings going on. So I wish you well, and it's great to see people thinking for themselves.

[searchingforpeace]

I sure hope you CAN find a church that preaches the whole counsel of God. It'll be difficult but with God all things are possible. IF you truly want to be part of a church organisation then you will have to come to a place inside yourself where it doesn't matter if they're not perfect, you are able to be there for others. And you will need to know inside yourself what is truth and what isn't if you hope to stand up to all the false teachings going on. So I wish you well, and it's great to see people thinking for themselves.

Oh I do not expect at all to find a church that is perfect....that would be impossible as there is no human that is perfect. :)

[james415]

Oh I do not expect at all to find a church that is perfect....that would be impossible as there is no human that is perfect. :)
Isaiah 9:16 Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray.

A church is a good place for fellowship but let the Word be your guide not the church.

[searchingforpeace]

Isaiah 9:16 Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray.

A church is a good place for fellowship but let the Word be your guide not the church.

Yes, that is what I am doing now :) I use to be naive. I didn't think a Pastor or someone else in the church would lead people in the wrong direction...but know I know better and I know the only one who I can truly rely on is God :)

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the name of Jesus; :hug:

I have read many Great truths posted in this thread; And Gods truth is woven through them.:)

My 2 cents is: that Anointed and Ordination; comes from two sources; One is man, and the other is God.

Being Ordained or anointed by Institutions of men. means your of mans anointing and teachings. If one is anointed by spirit and Ordained by God; then God dwells within you. There is a difference.

All flesh should seek the anointing and Ordination from God, where true power and truth does exist.

Even Atheist can claim Ordination and anointing of wisdom on its claimed wise men. Trust not in men, lest their words are from God.

I pray my words do not offend any. May the love and blessings of God, be on Christian Forum, and all who use it. :wave:


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[New_Wineskin]

I found over time I kept getting into churches that it wasn't about what God's word said, it was about what the Pastor said. Since I am seeking out a new church, relying fully on God's word is what I am doing now...learning what His word says.

Yeah . It might be interesting for you if you look into *those* doctrines that you just mentioned , as well . If you look into them with the same scope as others , you will be in for a shock . :)

[jazzypooh]

The anointing doesn't initially mean you have gifts. To be anointed of God means you have accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus dying on your behalf and you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. The gifts are given according to the will of the Holy Spirit. Some people have gifts that are very obvious and stand out, and are 'showy', others have gifts that are hidden to the eye and are not at all showy. One gift is not any more important to God than another. It's whatever HE chooses to give you.

But first of all realize that the anointing is IN you because you have the Holy Spirit. Pastors may or may not have the gift of ascension called 'pastor'. Some men just decide they want to be a pastor without it being given to them by Holy Spirit. They (any Pastor) is no more anointed than what you or any other person in church is. If they have been given the gift of being a pastor then they have the anointing for that job. But, it's no better than whatever gift you may have. They are not 'above' you.

Be careful not to fall under the spiritual abuse of some leaders who tell you that you must obey them, and can't question them, because they are anointed. I have often heard it from the pulpit, 'touch not God's anointed', as if they are untouchable. Please don't listen to it. It's abuse of their position and abuse of the 'sheep'.
but doesn't the Bible say we're not supposed to rebuke elders? i'm just confused about that one.

[jazzypooh]

oh and to the OP: the anointing is the power of God for divine service

[tapero]

but doesn't the Bible say we're not supposed to rebuke elders? i'm just confused about that one.

Check out 1st Timothy 5.

Also, can do a search on the word elders, may also be deacons mentioned (I use NIV.)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=61&chapter=5&version=31

Always good to know for yourself what the bible says on a matter rather than trusting another to tell you, not that we can't be trusted, but we should always be in the habit of verifying what we hear and see of others posts and what people tell us.

Also, many people believe differnetly and so we must determine how we believe on a matter; and comes by study; but it comes a little at a time and is okay, is how we all learn.

I only did one search, there may be more on that topic, but that is a place to start. See verse 1 and 2, then go to 17 as well, but always good to read bible in context; so just showing you a few different things there.

God bless,
tapero

[jazzypooh]

i have read it in context before, and i just read it again on the link. but it seems like all the pastors i've heard, have always basically said that they're the head. me and me last pastor had a bad "discussion" about this. i told him Christ was the Head and he didn't like that too much...

but he was way outta line in what he did. and the whole church knew it, but nobody would say anything. he was basically practicing pulpit witchcraft with all the manipulating he did. and nobody would say a word about anything he did.

and then when i read that about rebuking elders later on, i felt kinda bad about it. so now i guess i dont know when it's necessary and if it is how are you supposed to go about doing it. i see what the scriptures say, but i have never seen it done before. that's why i just decided to pray for them if i feel offended by them or something like that.

[jazzypooh]

Isaiah 9:16 Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray.

A church is a good place for fellowship but let the Word be your guide not the church.
but isnt the purpose of the pastor to lead you also? :scratch: :confused:

[tapero]

i have read it in context before, and i just read it again on the link. but it seems like all the pastors i've heard, have always basically said that they're the head. me and me last pastor had a bad "discussion" about this. i told him Christ was the Head and he didn't like that too much...

but he was way outta line in what he did. and the whole church knew it, but nobody would say anything. he was basically practicing pulpit witchcraft with all the manipulating he did. and nobody would say a word about anything he did.

and then when i read that about rebuking elders later on, i felt kinda bad about it. so now i guess i dont know when it's necessary and if it is how are you supposed to go about doing it. i see what the scriptures say, but i have never seen it done before. that's why i just decided to pray for them if i feel offended by them or something like that.


Hi, in my finding that scripture I only glanced, but did not see not to rebuke an elder in 1 timothy 5.

Regardless of any mans position; as applies to all, the thing to do is to pray much, and take much time in thinking about what was said, and also how to reply. It took me 3 months of such to approach a pastor, same as I would any person, not just cause he was a pastor, to then say what I felt I needed to say. Reason took me so long, as I had no clue on how to approach and what to say; and did not feel right until that period of time passed.

It went well.

We all fail, and do not always pray and give time to matters and respond quickly out of our frustration, hurt, pain or anger etc. at times. I know I recently did such.

A pastor is like a leader. Leaders fail and fall. Many have power problems, and fall prey to heavy contributors to the church carrying out the contributors whims to keep the big money coming. They also fall prey to those who stroke the ego. They are human and just as we can get messed up by someone doing same to us, they get messed up if they weren't to begin with.

Of course, not true of all pastors, but is difficult when the congregation naturally looks at pastors and their family as differnt people altogether and actually help the pastor in doing wrong, by what they say to the pastor (encouraging power), or failing to bring a pastors failings to the pastor and then a 2nd, 3rd witness, and then the church.

People tend to put pastors on the pedestal, and if not a humble man, he also puts himself there.

It takes pastors much prayer and humility to keep in check.

Billy Graham is an example of healthy humility; who knows he is only a man, a servant of Christ and of all and merely a messenger of the gospel.

Everything a pastor says should be checked in the bible, just as anything we hear or read should be checked to see if clicks with scripture.

I only looked briefly up that chapter for you and it does not say not to rebuke an elder.

I dont' want to search now, for other references, but if you find where it says such please post where it does say that.


Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, 2older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity


Above is verse 1 and does not say do not rebuke an elder, it says older man in niv, but may say elder in other versions.

It says Do not rebuke harshly. This should be so with any person, but again we do fail.

But more is in regards to those older, they tend to be our leaders, example; women teach the younger women, etc.

In Jewish circles (non Christians) it is common that the older members speak first, and round it goes down to the youngest as in discussion of religon and other topics. This is a very good example of how we should try to be in a sense, speaking last, and with humility.

I commend you for wanting to know how to go about things, as I myself would not bother, and would leave the church.

my first church, very fortunate, one of first things I recall being taught, is pastor saying, I am just a man, and am no different than you. He was teaching us not to put him on a pedestal (again, it's natural for us to do so, as we tend to love our pastors, and hold them in higher esteem than we ought.) It's okay to esteem one highly but in doing so always remembering we are but men and are fallible.

Many fall away when a pastor falls, and this is because their faith was in the man and not in Christ. Not that they aren't Christians (some aren't), but instead of knowing God for themselves or relying on God, they leaned on all the pastor said and have no solid or strong foundation of their own.

The foundation is Christ.

This pastor never said, you must do this, or should do this, but would say, I need to do this in my life and from such we would learn. As he struggles with same things we struggle with.

Also fortunate church was congregation ruled, not ruled by elders or pastors, who only had one vote like all others.

Christ should be central in all sermons whether on old or new, and pastor should not be central at all, always Christ. These are key things to look for. There are ways for every sermon if not about Christ, such as something in ot or even nt, to show how the sermon points to Christ or if not relative; always ending with Christ; the gospel.

That is a Christ centered church.

A church is or should be like a hospital, where we go every week crippled and weak by the walking in the world (the land of the shadow of death), and for the pastor to edify and never tear any man down. And for the Holy Spirit to do the work in the man, not man commanding man, but teaching, and the Holy Spirit doing the work.

Otherwise only outward change occurs and does not last, unless God changes us inside with our cooperation by His Spirit through Christ. Jesus said clean the inside of the cup and the outside will be clean also.

Many teach just the opposite and are in error.

Sorry, way off topic, but hope was okay.

bless you and I'm sorry for the difficulties you are facing. You may be in a region where such is common that you've run into it before as well. There are denominations that are geared to the pastor havng power, and may be need another denominatoin to go to or a non denominational church if you keep seeing same over and over in one denomination.

As we all know no church is perfect; so we find a place that's okay or good and deal with the problems.

To me though, what the pastor says is indicative of what he believes, and if what he says does not line up with the word of God, then all he teaches is messed up, and as I'm not here to change a pastor, I go elsewhere.

I applaud those who do try to help a wayward pastor but I am not the type to do so.

I don't try to change my friends; God does the work. I encourage them in what is good and help them if they fall and remind them God loves them.

They already know their sin and don't need to be told, at least my friends but many times, people don't recognize their sin, we ourselves don't many times, but others do.

I have one friend has temper tantrums in public, and almost ran over another friend when she was angry, while backing up her car, as was so angry she wasn't thinking. And angry over nothing, as nothing untoward occured. But she has a temper. There is nothing I can say to her about it, she knows she has it and all I can do is pray for her and forgive her when it rears it's head, just as she would do for me with whatever crazy traits I have. God does the work.

blessings,
tapero

[jazzypooh]

thanks tapero. that has helped.

in the NKJV it says this:
Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers,

and in the KJV:
Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

these are the translations that the churches i've attended have always used. especially in the Baptist church i used to go to. since i grew up there, the 1st teachings of scriptures i learned were from the KJV. i mostly read from the Amplified version now and i do go to a non-denominational church now. but i was starting to hear some similar stuff there. that's why i was having these questions.

i have another question about this subject, which i think you touched on. but i think it would be best if i started it in a new thread. so i'll do that instead. so the OP gets her questions answered. when i post it, can you take a look at it for me?

[searchingforpeace]

oh and to the OP: the anointing is the power of God for divine service


What is divine service?

[james415]

but isnt the purpose of the pastor to lead you also? :scratch: :confused:

That depends on who you put your trust in. Do you put your trust in man or God?
I think Isaiah 9:16 means two things. First, that no man on earth knows the total truth so we should get to know the word (bible) well enough to discern truth. And second, it is God who determines our footsteps (the course of our lives), not our pastor so we should get to know the Word (Christ) better. It is He who is our Sheppard.

But don’t take my word for it because I am just as fallible as the next guy. Nevertheless, here are some verses I think support what I have said:

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, …

Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

John 10:4-6 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

[jazzypooh]

What is divine service?
it's whatever task or ministry God has called you to. when He anoints you to do that, it's the same as saying He has empowered you to perform whatever He has called you to do. that's what the anointing is. it's God empowering us to do whatever He has called us to do through His Holy Spirit. does that make more sense?

[jazzypooh]

That depends on who you put your trust in. Do you put your trust in man or God?
I think Isaiah 9:16 means two things. First, that no man on earth knows the total truth so we should get to know the word (bible) well enough to discern truth. And second, it is God who determines our footsteps (the course of our lives), not our pastor so we should get to know the Word (Christ) better. It is He who is our Sheppard.

But don’t take my word for it because I am just as fallible as the next guy. Nevertheless, here are some verses I think support what I have said:

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, …

Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

John 10:4-6 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
if i respond to your post, it's gonna throw this thread off topic. so i'm gonna post my questions about that subject in another thread. and i'll respond to your post then. is that ok? but i do want to understand this better.

[searchingforpeace]

it's whatever task or ministry God has called you to. when He anoints you to do that, it's the same as saying He has empowered you to perform whatever He has called you to do. that's what the anointing is. it's God empowering us to do whatever He has called us to do through His Holy Spirit. does that make more sense?
Yes, that does make sense :) Thank you :) Just was not familiar with that term. :)

[jazzypooh]

That depends on who you put your trust in. Do you put your trust in man or God?
I think Isaiah 9:16 means two things. First, that no man on earth knows the total truth so we should get to know the word (bible) well enough to discern truth. And second, it is God who determines our footsteps (the course of our lives), not our pastor so we should get to know the Word (Christ) better. It is He who is our Sheppard.

But don’t take my word for it because I am just as fallible as the next guy. Nevertheless, here are some verses I think support what I have said:

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, …

Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

John 10:4-6 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
ok, i responded to your post in a new thread.

[jazzypooh]

Yes, that does make sense :) Thank you :) Just was not familiar with that term. :)
i'm glad you have a better understanding now.

God bless you!