Are You a bigot if...

[Rep Daddy]

you are against moderators who deny the Nicene Creed?

[MrJim]

you wear me out~when I see your name somewhere i know there is controversy brewing.

drstevej=never boring ;)

[Letalis]

Bigot:

"a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."

So I guess so. I voted no anyway because I'm tired of that word being used to stifle orthodox/conservative opinions and beliefs.

[Lisa0315]

Had to vote other as the question is stated.

You are not a bigot if you vote your conscience. You are a bigot if you vote based solely on a person's belief or lack thereof without any other reasoning behind it other than they do not believe the same way as I do.

What I am saying is there are certain forums where non-Nicene Creed mods would be fine in my opinion. There are others such as Theology where it would not be.

I have qualities that I look for depending on the forum. In debate, I would have no problem with a non-Nicene Christian or an atheist or even anothe religion. In Theology, though, I think they need to be Traditional Christians.

So, if that makes me a bigot, so be it.

Lisa

[Lel]

I may disagree with the conclusion but coming to that conclusion is not bigotry in and of itself.

[£amb]

I think this word is being thrown around so much lately....it's almost being used as a curse word.

My view is similar to Lisa's. In the christians only sections...there should be a mod who adheres to the Nicene, but in the non-believer/athiest section, I believe there should be both. There should be christian mods and non-believer mods to help with the balance of moderating.

[£amb]

Oh, I voted no....:D

[Letalis]

My view is similar to Lisa's. In the christians only sections...there should be a mod who adheres to the Nicene, but in the non-believer/athiest section, I believe there should be both. There should be christian mods and non-believer mods to help with the balance of moderating.
Well, are you aware that there is an unorthodox/non-Nicene theology forum under the Theology header?

[Rep Daddy]

Bigot:

"a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."



"I am the way the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father but by Me."

Bigoted statement?

[Lisa0315]

Well, here is the thing...the whole reason we are having this discussion...that person is now claiming to essentially have Nicene Creed beliefs. Now, either he is a Nicene believer or he is just telling people what they want to hear.

Under any definition including the Mormon one, (with the exception of Erwin's) Mormons are not Christians. Mormons hold beliefs which are very alien to Christianity. So, why is this guy insisting that he follows the Nicene Creed? I don't get it and I am wary of it. It makes me more wary than if he were presenting himself as a fair-minded Mormon with non-Nicene beliefs. Call me paranoid...

Lisa

[Letalis]

"I am the way the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father but by Me."

Bigoted statement?
Let me ask the dictionary and get back to you on that one. :thumbsup:;)

[GreenMunchkin]

Huh. Was wondering if that one was gonna catch on.

The unbelievable thing is someone tried to say it was like not wanting black people to be on staff by way of a valid comparison :doh: Crazy.

So far the popular ones are "unloving", "Pharisees", "un-Christ-like", now "bigot"... we should play Buzz-word Bingo :)

Winner gets first crack at banging their head against a wall.

[Lisa0315]

Huh. Was wondering if that one was gonna catch on.

The unbelievable thing is someone tried to say it was like not wanting black people to be on staff by way of a valid comparison :doh: Crazy.

So far the popular ones are "unloving", "Pharisees", "un-Christ-like", now "bigot"... we should play Buzz-word Bingo :)

Winner gets first crack at banging their head against a wall.

I never saw that comment in the moderator thread. Are you talking about in general how the word bigot has been used in other threads?

Lisa

[WarriorAngel]

No.

It is not being a bigot to have faith in leadership that reflects what the forum is based upon.
Christianity.

Just as I would not want an athiest Bishop running my Church, I don't feel particularly comfortable having a non believer over look a forum based on Christian principles.
Since it is NOT something they have a particular belief in anyway.
AND I will add, if this forum was not Christian, and did not have the guidelines it did...it would have NEVER succeeded as it has.

Am I a bigot? Only a bigot would think so....bigotted against my ideals of obtaining truth in a Christian forum not wanting relativism to blur what true faith subsists as.

NOW... I also am inclined to use the watch and see approach of non Christians who are modding a non Christian area. Since it is where we stand now...
Leave them to discuss this with Christian mods of that area.

If it doesnt work out....then we know trial and error occurred.

But no, it is not being biggotted...
Anyone joining a forum in which they do not subscribe to in either theory or principle, but trying to change it to match their own preferences....has the issues.

I would not go into an athiest forum and demand the rules change... and tell them they must accept Christians and the Nicene Creed.

Just as I think it rather inexcusable to join here and try to reprogram the program so they can desecrate the place...just like they are trying and are succeeding in 'policital correctness' across the nations.

Ya know, there are times when we let the lines blur, and then faith slowly dissipates.

Sure, they are people, and sure they can 'fellowship' but that is all we should have changed in here.

That they be allowed. just like 'other' Christians, make threads asking genuine questions.

Not debating Christians and placing seeds of doubt.

They had the sufficient means in GA to do that...and they did.

In these times, when faith is so fragile and Christ says when He returns will there be any faith left...
defending the non believers and bringing them into the fold is a mistake.
UNLESS they are seeking to have faith.

Christ said...'Shake the dust off your feet...'

IE, dont let their doubts and denials stick on you... shake it off and remove that which can penetrate and make you filthy.

Hey, its just IMHO.

I like all ppl, I am supposed to love them, pray for them and be there if they have genuine questions.
But I should not be forced to accept blasphemies because it is their opinion.

[Debi1967]

No.

It is not being a bigot to have faith in leadership that reflects what the forum is based upon.
Christianity.

Just as I would not want an athiest Bishop running my Church, I don't feel particularly comfortable having a non believer over look a forum based on Christian principles.
Since it is NOT something they have a particular belief in anyway.
AND I will add, if this forum was not Christian, and did not have the guidelines it did...it would have NEVER succeeded as it has.

Am I a bigot? Only a bigot would think so....bigotted against my ideals of obtaining truth in a Christian forum not wanting relativism to blur what true faith subsists as.

NOW... I also am inclined to use the watch and see approach of non Christians who are modding a non Christian area. Since it is where we stand now...
Leave them to discuss this with Christian mods of that area.

If it doesnt work out....then we know trial and error occurred.

But no, it is not being biggotted...
Anyone joining a forum in which they do not subscribe to in either theory or principle, but trying to change it to match their own preferences....has the issues.

I would not go into an athiest forum and demand the rules change... and tell them they must accept Christians and the Nicene Creed.

Just as I think it rather inexcusable to join here and try to reprogram the program so they can desecrate the place...just like they are trying and are succeeding in 'policital correctness' across the nations.

Ya know, there are times when we let the lines blur, and then faith slowly dissipates.

Sure, they are people, and sure they can 'fellowship' but that is all we should have changed in here.

That they be allowed. just like 'other' Christians, make threads asking genuine questions.

Not debating Christians and placing seeds of doubt.

They had the sufficient means in GA to do that...and they did.

In these times, when faith is so fragile and Christ says when He returns will there be any faith left...
defending the non believers and bringing them into the fold is a mistake.
UNLESS they are seeking to have faith.

Christ said...'Shake the dust off your feet...'

IE, dont let their doubts and denials stick on you... shake it off and remove that which can penetrate and make you filthy.

Hey, its just IMHO.

I like all ppl, I am supposed to love them, pray for them and be there if they have genuine questions.
But I should not be forced to accept blasphemies because it is their opinion.:thumbsup::hug:

[Voegelin]

Critical theory says anyone who holds allegiance to or belief in anything except cultural marxism . . . i.e. critical theory itself . . . suffers from a psychological illness. "Bigot" is one diagnosis. There are others.

So, of course, excluding anyone is bigoted. By definition. Only people who aren't bigots are cultural marxists who exclude, demonize and hate Christians.

[£amb]

Well, are you aware that there is an unorthodox/non-Nicene theology forum under the Theology header?

Actually no until just now...:) I just automatically click on the Nicene forum and really not pay too much attention to anything else on the list. Shows you how "in tune" I am lately to the forums. :)

[£amb]

Huh. Was wondering if that one was gonna catch on.

The unbelievable thing is someone tried to say it was like not wanting black people to be on staff by way of a valid comparison :doh: Crazy.

So far the popular ones are "unloving", "Pharisees", "un-Christ-like", now "bigot"... we should play Buzz-word Bingo :)

Winner gets first crack at banging their head against a wall.

Don't forget untolerant...;)

*is that a word by the way :scratch: *

[Debi1967]

Don't forget untolerant...;)

*is that a word by the way :scratch: *
it's intolerant but I understood you

[£amb]

it's intolerant but I understood you

That's the word I was looking for!...;) I had a brain freeze and could not remember the word for it, and I was too lazy to look in the dictionary...thanks RaggedRobin...:)

[Lisa0315]

That's the word I was looking for!...;) I had a brain freeze and could not remember the word for it, and I was too lazy to look in the dictionary...thanks RaggedRobin...:)

I do that all the time! Doesn't it drive you nuts!

Lisa

[Debi1967]

That's the word I was looking for!...;) I had a brain freeze and could not remember the word for it, and I was too lazy to look in the dictionary...thanks RaggedRobin...:)
no problem I brain freeze all the time ...;) I call it old age setting in and fogging my memory banks :D

[GreenMunchkin]

Don't forget untolerant...;)

*is that a word by the way :scratch: *Thing is, that one's thrown about like it's a bad thing, but in some ways isn't. If we're tolerant of people willfully sinning, we're loving them straight into Hell. So in that respect, intolerance is no bad thing :) Can't quite get over what was said: "Sin is subjective". If believing that equates with being tolerant, we should wear the "intolerant" charge like a badge of honour.

It's actually ironic that so many people believe being tolerant of everything means you love. When you love, you don't want people to live in sin, and bondage. If that's intolerance, intolerance is groovy :)

[£amb]

Thing is, that one's thrown about like it's a bad thing, but in some ways isn't. If we're tolerant of people willfully sinning, we're loving them straight into Hell. So in that respect, intolerance is no bad thing :) Can't quite get over what was said: "Sin is subjective". If believing that equates with being tolerant, we should wear the "intolerant" charge like a badge of honour.

It's actually ironic that so many people believe being tolerant of everything means you love. When you love, you don't want people to live in sin, and bondage. If that's intolerance, intolerance is groovy :)

Couldn't agree more...:)

[WarriorAngel]

Critical theory says anyone who holds allegiance to or belief in anything except cultural marxism . . . i.e. critical theory itself . . . suffers from a psychological illness. "Bigot" is one diagnosis. There are others.

So, of course, excluding anyone is bigoted. By definition. Only people who aren't bigots are cultural marxists who exclude, demonize and hate Christians.

Doesn't that make them bigots? ;)

Thing is, that one's thrown about like it's a bad thing, but in some ways isn't. If we're tolerant of people willfully sinning, we're loving them straight into Hell. So in that respect, intolerance is no bad thing :) Can't quite get over what was said: "Sin is subjective". If believing that equates with being tolerant, we should wear the "intolerant" charge like a badge of honour.

It's actually ironic that so many people believe being tolerant of everything means you love. When you love, you don't want people to live in sin, and bondage. If that's intolerance, intolerance is groovy :)

Jesus was pretty intolerant.

He was most tolerant of a humble heart.
WE are not Jesus, but we are not supposed to 'allow error in' but instead convert them.

If Jesus was tolerant, then why would He want them converted in the first place? ;)

[Lisa0315]

Well, if y'all haven't voted, you better get over there. It is now 15 to 14, too close for comfort.

Lisa

[GreenMunchkin]

Jesus was pretty intolerant.

He was most tolerant of a humble heart.
WE are not Jesus, but we are not supposed to 'allow error in' but instead convert them.

If Jesus was tolerant, then why would He want them converted in the first place? ;) Indeed.

It just shows how far society has fallen away from Biblical principles. How on Earth did that happen? At one point, people were governed by those principles... at what point did that change? Was there one defining moment in history where it turned a corner and then slipped into "subjective" from then?

And when did the world become so steeped in sin that to acknowledge and not support sin means people feel they are entitled to call people bigots? It's all upside down and topsy turvy.

[Hentenza]

I voted No because I just can't see someone that is non-nicene moderating over a nicene only forum. It's not about being a bigot, it's about not allowing unorthodox theology govern over orthodox theology. It just makes very little sense to me.:o

[Letalis]

Well, if y'all haven't voted, you better get over there. It is now 15 to 14, too close for comfort.

Lisa
Well, members need 70% of the vote to get on staff.

[Lisa0315]

Well, members need 70% of the vote to get on staff.

Oh, that is right. I forgot about that.

Lisa

[woman.at.the.well]

imo . . . i don't believe you are a bigot if you think a non-nicene professing christian shouldn't moderate certain forums/threads here on cf.

in fact, it would be and has proven to be very counter productive to several christian threads/forums here on cf.

so sure, let non-nicene professing folks mod forums/threads that don't pertain to christian beliefs or principals. but let those who do believe/profess the nicene creed mod forums that fall under the nicene creed.

[Joykins]

The poll provides insufficient information to make such a determination.

[magdiel]

no

"I am the way the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father but by Me."

Bigoted statement?

nuff said

[Lisa0315]

The poll provides insufficient information to make such a determination.

Vote Other so I won't be the only one!!! ^_^

Lisa

[Tangeloper]

Thing is, that one's thrown about like it's a bad thing, but in some ways isn't. If we're tolerant of people willfully sinning, we're loving them straight into Hell. So in that respect, intolerance is no bad thing :) Can't quite get over what was said: "Sin is subjective". If believing that equates with being tolerant, we should wear the "intolerant" charge like a badge of honour.

It's actually ironic that so many people believe being tolerant of everything means you love. When you love, you don't want people to live in sin, and bondage. If that's intolerance, intolerance is groovy :)

I agree that the word intolerance is thrown around too much. Tolerance for divergent opinions is one thing. To expect someone to remain quiet is another [and I believe that's really what most of the people who use that word want -- to silence divergent (in most cases conservative religious and political) ideas despite supposed claims to want freedom of speech].

But, it's not only the words intolerance and bigot that are being thrown around. So are the words racist, fascist, etc...

A lot of times I see those words being thrown around by people who are exhibiting the hallmarks of those attitudes themselves, and in response to anything that doesn't jive with their personal feelings.

It would also seem that whenever anyone tosses around words like that people jump on the bandwagon without thinking critically about the subject at hand.

This is one thing I am so frustrated with. :sigh:

I feel a little uncomfortable speaking like about the following, as it's kind of new to me (at least speaking publicly) -- but I honestly feel that this is starting(?) to be a tool used by Satan in an attempt to shame people away from Godly beliefs, and an attempt to shame people into going along with the crowd, so to speak...

I believe these really are dire times and I worry about those who are dissuaded from their beliefs by people using these tactics.

~~ Tangeloper

[Tangeloper]

Vote Other so I won't be the only one!!! ^_^

Lisa

LOL... I voted "other" Lisa, because I wasn't sure whether this was in relation to THIS particular board, or sitewide. :confused:

I agree with the poster that said there was not enough information to make this poll a particularly valid one.

~~ Tangeloper

[PaladinGirl]

No, being against moderator applicants who reject the Nicene Creed does not make one a bigot.

big·ot (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Of course if you go by the dictionary definition, you might qualify as one but my opinion is that you are not one even if you are against moderator applicants who reject the Nicene Creed.

[Tangeloper]

No, being against moderator applicants who reject the Nicene Creed does not make one a bigot.

big·ot (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Of course if you go by the dictionary definition, you might qualify as one but my opinion is that you are not one even if you are against moderator applicants who reject the Nicene Creed.

PeaceLover02,


I was just wondering if you voted in this poll as you are not a member of the Conservative Christians board. You were already told on another thread that you cannot debate, or vote in this section...

~~ Tangeloper

[PaladinGirl]

PeaceLover02,


I was just wondering if you voted in this poll as you are not a member of the Conservative Christians board. You were already told on another thread that you cannot debate, or vote in this section...

~~ Tangeloper
I am a conservative Christian now so I can debate and vote in polls here I would assume. Either that or I am being unjustly excluded.

[GreenMunchkin]

A lot of times I see those words being thrown around by people who are exhibiting the hallmarks of those attitudes themselves, and in response to anything that doesn't jive with their personal feelings.Have noticed that exact same thing. But pointing our the irony, of course, makes us unloving and Pharisees.

It would also seem that whenever anyone tosses around words like that people jump on the bandwagon without thinking critically about the subject at hand.Also true. Look in Support reports. One person said it, and it spread like wild-fire. Seriously, Buzz-Word Bingo. There's very little we can do about it so we just have to let it roll off our backs.

We just have to stay near God, and remain steadfast, and not compromise our integrity - or Him - in order to fit in and look good.

It definitely lends weight to the idea that we're nearing the End Times :) :hug: Don't forget, sweetie, God wins in the end. It's sucky at the moment, but He wins by a landslide :D :clap:

[magdiel]

I am a conservative Christian now so I can debate and vote in polls here I would assume. Either that or I am being unjustly excluded.
Good evening PeaceLover!
I know ppl can change there stance on things.
But you have changed your user title at least twice this past week, maybe even 3 times. From Progressive and now to conservative.
You say you are conservative, others have pointed out what you have posted elsewhere lately, which is not conservative at all.

Maybe you should just sit back and post in fellowship here, which is very welcomed, til you get everything sorted out within you.

You may just change your stance tomorrow as you have done this past week. Not trying to be hard on you sweetie, but take some time out in prayer, and then truely know what you are.
God bless you!!!

[AMDG]

To "help" me decide how to vote, I managed to change the question a bit to "Would I call myself "bigoted" just because I believe in objective truth and expect those who claim to be "Christian" to have beliefs that reflect that (i.e. Christian beliefs reflected in the Nicene Creed)? No. I don't consider myself a "bigot" to want integrity from the mods in question. ;)

[PaladinGirl]

Good evening PeaceLover!
I know ppl can change there stance on things.
But you have changed your user title at least twice this past week, maybe even 3 times. From Progressive and now to conservative.
You say you are conservative, others have pointed out what you have posted elsewhere lately, which is not conservative at all.

Maybe you should just sit back and post in fellowship here, which is very welcomed, til you get everything sorted out within you.

You may just change your stance tomorrow as you have done this past week. Not trying to be hard on you sweetie, but take some time out in prayer, and then truely know what you are.
God bless you!!!
Fine, I'll do that. I don't think its fair that I must do this but I will do it because apparently it is the consensus of this forum that I am not welcome here has a voter and debater. Hopefully I'll become welcome within time... :sigh:

[John1and1]

Well i do know this... at least i feel this. It seems to me this entire website has been undermined by Satan. I frankly dont care if the website mods want to ban me for my opinion or not. As Peter said, you decide, should we please God or man?

I can come to no other conclusion other than to think that this also is an intentional undermining. I have seen people lose their faith on this board, whiole God deniers and God haters spew venom and vitriol and get away with it. Atheists and agnostics who accuse christians of believing out of ignorance, and they get to stay. On the other hand i have seen christians banned for putting up effective debate. I have seen the liberal 'christians' come and stay, while the conservative must walk on eggs.

I frankly am not surprised. We are informed in scripture that in the last days many would depart from the faith and we certainly see it around us. Maybe we can get together there and formulate strategies for here

[NewGuy101]

In a liberal sense yes, in a conservative christian way no. ;)

[Tangeloper]

It definitely lends weight to the idea that we're nearing the End Times Don't forget, sweetie, God wins in the end. It's sucky at the moment, but He wins by a landslide

You're so right. That's the thing that keep me going when I encounter these things -- Trust in God, and in the end the Truth will prevail. I've had to develop this attitude in response to many things in my life, and it has served me well although I feel this sadness inside me at times, and I can't imagine the sadness our Lord must feel!!! :cry:

You know, since I was a very young child I have felt that things here on Earth were coming to a close. I don't know if this was in response to something I heard in church or what (I remember sitting in a pew during mass and having this thought -- that my generation will see the end times -- I don't know if it was God speaking to my heart, or if it was just part of the Priest's sermon that resonated in me -- perhaps a little of both! LOL).

Anyway, as I have come closer to God and Jesus in the last 2 years or so, my eyes have been opened to so many things that indicate that Satan is definitely "kicking it up a notch or two" so to speak.

I thank the Lord that I have come back "into the fold", and I am at peace knowing that whatever may happen it is all a part of God's plan even when it makes me sad. And, as you said -- HE will be victorious over this evil in the end and all of our tears will be wiped away! :clap:

Oh, and thanks for the hugs, too!:) :hug:

~~ Tangeloper

[heymikey80]

Bigot:

"a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."

So I guess so. I voted no anyway because I'm tired of that word being used to stifle orthodox/conservative opinions and beliefs.
I always think recursive definitions are funny.

If "someone"'s utterly intolerant of another because he's a bigot -- doesn't that make "someone" a bigot?

And doesn't that make the term "bigot" mean little? Other than "I don't like this guy"?

[nyj]

Bigot:

"a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."

So I guess so.
Can you link the two please? Cause I see no connection.

We don't allow non-American by birth citizens to be President in the USA, doesn't make us bigots against immigrants though.

[AMDG]

I always think recursive definitions are funny.

If "someone"'s utterly intolerant of another because he's a bigot -- doesn't that make "someone" a bigot?

And doesn't that make the term "bigot" mean little? Other than "I don't like this guy"?

:thumbsup:

[Izdaari]

Critical theory says anyone who holds allegiance to or belief in anything except cultural marxism . . . i.e. critical theory itself . . . suffers from a psychological illness. "Bigot" is one diagnosis. There are others.

So, of course, excluding anyone is bigoted. By definition. Only people who aren't bigots are cultural marxists who exclude, demonize and hate Christians.
True dat. Critical theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory) is usually an unspoken assumption of modern "liberals" aka "progressives". I think few of them actually understand its Marxist roots.

The quotation marks reflect my conviction that, unlike classical liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism), modern liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_liberalism_in_the_United_States) is neither truly liberal nor truly progressive. What do I mean by that? Ronald Reagan says it best:

"You and I are told increasingly that we have to choose between a left or a right. There is only an up or down: up to man's age-old dream -- the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order -- or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. And regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course." --- Ronald Reagan, Republican National Convention, 1964

[Tangeloper]

That Critical Theory stuff is incredibly interesting and educational. I appreciate both of your insights into this Voegelin & Izdaari. And, I appreciate the links. I just learned a few things! I LOVE it when that happens... :D
[My Grandmother used to say that you aren't really living if you don't learn something new everyday...]

I would also add that it seems to me that modern liberalism is leaning more and more towards outright "socialism", and it seems the definition of socialism itself has changed as well -- it's more akin to communism, frankly (Venezuela for instance, & Chávez claiming he is creating a socialist nation when in reality everything is controlled by the government itself, and right now is literally controlled by one man. Venezuela is truthfully being run by a communist dictatorship now, no matter which label Chávez and others choose to slap on it.).

Maybe there should be a new word coined like "neo-socialism" to describe what is happening? ^_^

Perhaps it was already like this before, but it seems that over the last 15 years or so "liberalism" is rapidly changing to mean something not even remotely close to it's dictionary definition -- at least in regards to U.S. politics and society. I guess English really is a "living language"...

~~ Tangeloper

[Lisa0315]

JasonV is a Universalist and has a 70%+ yes vote for Theology. Universalism is far more dangerous doctrine than Mormonism, and is far, far away from Nicene Creed doctrine. They believe in salvation for all, no hell, no damnation, and no repentance. It in effect makes the sacrifice of Jesus unnecessary.

Lisa

[AMDG]

JasonV is a Universalist and has a 70%+ yes vote for Theology. Universalism is far more dangerous doctrine than Mormonism, and is far, far away from Nicene Creed doctrine. They believe in salvation for all, no hell, no damnation, and no repentance. It in effect makes the sacrifice of Jesus unnecessary.



And you are saying what? That Mormonism isn't far, far away frrom Nicene Creed doctrine and that it doesn't believe that everyone goes to heaven (in their case one of the three heavens)?

I'm saying that it's about truth (and the Nicene Creed is truth.) To expect a mod (with authority over us all) to embrace truth makes me a bigot?

Sounds more like an attempt at labeling anyone who does not want "a fox guarding the henhouse" a bigot. :doh:

[magdiel]

JasonV is a Universalist and has a 70%+ yes vote for Theology. Universalism is far more dangerous doctrine than Mormonism, and is far, far away from Nicene Creed doctrine. They believe in salvation for all, no hell, no damnation, and no repentance. It in effect makes the sacrifice of Jesus unnecessary.

Lisa

And you are saying what? That Mormonism isn't far, far away frrom Nicene Creed doctrine and that it doesn't believe that everyone goes to heaven (in their case one of the three heavens)?

I'm saying that it's about truth (and the Nicene Creed is truth.) To expect a mod (with authority over us all) to embrace truth makes me a bigot?

Sounds more like an attempt at labeling anyone who does not want "a fox guarding the henhouse" a bigot. :doh:

Hi AMDG, I don't mean to speak for Lisa, but I am butting in I guess. :)

Lisa said that Universalism is more dangerous than Mormanism. Her post was not about which was further away from the Nicene Creed.

[Lisa0315]

Thanks, Magdiel. You are correct. I was not saying that Mormonism was close to Nicene, but that Universalism is even further away and even more dangerous. I was saying that if we were being "bigots" over a Mormon applicant, then, why aren't we voting against a Universalist?

Lisa

[Debi1967]

Thanks, Magdiel. You are correct. I was not saying that Mormonism was close to Nicene, but that Universalism is even further away and even more dangerous. I was saying that if we were being "bigots" over a Mormon applicant, then, why aren't we voting against a Universalist?

Lisa
Wait I did go farther and found out his Home Church was the Liberal Catholic Church so that made me vote NO emphatically .... sorry I thought he was somebody else in ecumenical I voted for not theology

[Time2BCounted]

Universalists are not Christians, period, let alone conservative. What is the debate? Why is a Universalist even allowed consideration in moderating a forum? Is this what we call conservative Christianity now days? Some here may, I certainly do not and will not compromise the word and redefine terms for the sake of embracing heresy.

[Lisa0315]

Wait I did go farther and found out his Home Church was the Liberal Catholic Church so that made me vote NO emphatically .... sorry I thought he was somebody else in ecumenical I voted for not theology

Well, I asked him what doctrine of the Catholic Church did he disagree with to leave it for Liberal Catholics. He said that he was not Catholic, but a Universalist. That is in his discussion thread, btw...I think calling himself Liberal Catholic is misleading.

Lisa

[AMDG]

Hi AMDG, I don't mean to speak for Lisa, but I am butting in I guess. :)

Lisa said that Universalism is more dangerous than Mormanism. Her post was not about which was further away from the Nicene Creed.

Hi magdiel :wave: I sure don't mind the "butting" and I hope Lisa knows that I love and respect her views :hug: Okay, we can agree that both Universalism and Mormonism are dangerous. And I will not call myself a bigot for trying to uphold truth. (Gee, I feel a little like Gandolf in the Fellowship of the Ring, "It shall not pass!")

I know everyone talks about being "ecumenical" and compassionate, but a non-Christian mod sort of reminds me about the story about the camel's nose in the tent which seems to me to illustrate how being compassionate without limits can lead to a "slippery slope" of a downfall.

The story. It was a real cold night and the man felt fortunate to be inside his tent. His camel was, of course, outside, where it belonged. Pretty soon he heard the camel, "Master, it's so cold out here, may I please warm my nose inside the tent? My nose won't take up much room and look how compassionate you'll look." And so the man let the camel warm it's nose. But after awhile the camel spoke again, "My nose feels so much better, but my eyes are so cold. Let me warm them too. It's just a few more inches, and you'll look so compassionate." And so it went, ears, head, neck, shoulders, body, hindend, till finally the whole camel was in the tent and the man was in the cold outside. And remember it all started with just a little thing on the pretense of being compassionate. And can any of you truly tell me that the man would be "bigoted" if he stopped the camel's takeover of his tent when the camel first asked to warm his nose?

[Lisa0315]

Hi magdiel :wave: I sure don't mind the "butting" and I hope Lisa knows that I love and respect her views :hug: Okay, we can agree that both Universalism and Mormonism are dangerous. And I will not call myself a bigot for trying to uphold truth. (Gee, I feel a little like Gandolf in the Fellowship of the Ring, "It shall not pass!")

I know everyone talks about being "ecumenical" and compassionate, but a non-Christian mod sort of reminds me about the story about the camel's nose in the tent which seems to me to illustrate how being compassionate without limits can lead to a "slippery slope" of a downfall.

The story. It was a real cold night and the man felt fortunate to be inside his tent. His camel was, of course, outside, where it belonged. Pretty soon he heard the camel, "Master, it's so cold out here, may I please warm my nose inside the tent? My nose won't take up much room and look how compassionate you'll look." And so the man let the camel warm it's nose. But after awhile the camel spoke again, "My nose feels so much better, but my eyes are so cold. Let me warm them too. It's just a few more inches, and you'll look so compassionate." And so it went, ears, head, neck, shoulders, body, hindend, till finally the whole camel was in the tent and the man was in the cold outside. And remember it all started with just a little thing on the pretense of being compassionate. And can any of you truly tell me that the man would be "bigoted" if he stopped the camel's takeover of his tent when the camel first asked to warm his nose?

Well, to clarify, my position regarding non-Christian mods is that they should be allowed to moderate in the non-Christian sections. I just do not see how a Mormon or a Universalist can resolve conflict especially when the conflict will generally be because one is arguing a non-Nicene position against a Traditional Christian position.

Lisa

[Debi1967]

Well, I asked him what doctrine of the Catholic Church did he disagree with to leave it for Liberal Catholics. He said that he was not Catholic, but a Universalist. That is in his discussion thread, btw...I think calling himself Liberal Catholic is misleading.

Lisa
The word Catholic means Universal ......

When they use it they use to mean exactly that .... Liberal Universal Church and they then disguise it by saying Catholic trying to say that they are the Truth and the Way .....

But when we use the word we do not espouse the meaning in the manner they use it as but in the truest sense of the word that Christ's Church is Universal to all that accept Him.

[Lisa0315]

The word Catholic means Universal ......

When they use it they use to mean exactly that .... Liberal Universal Church and they then disguise it by saying Catholic trying to say that they are the Truth and the Way .....

But when we use the word we do not espouse the meaning in the manner they use it as but in the truest sense of the word that Christ's Church is Universal to all that accept Him.

Well, I am very grateful to the mods. In the past, I have had some very civil conversations with Universalists. However, just this weekend, I encountered one and I spoke of leading someone to Christ via PM. He told me that I couldn't lead anyone to anything except a false christ or antichrist. It was the worst flame that has ever happened to me. I replied to him and told him that he had just blasphemed the Holy Spirit by saying that the work that had been done through me was of Satan. The mods acted so quickly and effectively. I was very relieved at how quickly they responded.

Get this...Beastt defended me and Ravenscape was one of the mods who enforced the rule. I am telling you guys, we have far less to fear from atheists as mods than we do those who have perverted the gospel. Atheists can be saved. Atheists are potential brothers and sisters. They are deceived but not so deceived that they have received and are preaching a perverted gospel. Atheists are blind, but those who preach such heresy, I am afraid in some cases, they have had their eyes burned out and will never see the truth.

Lisa

[Time2BCounted]

Well, I am very grateful to the mods. In the past, I have had some very civil conversations with Universalists. However, just this weekend, I encountered one and I spoke of leading someone to Christ via PM. He told me that I couldn't lead anyone to anything except a false christ or antichrist. It was the worst flame that has ever happened to me. I replied to him and told him that he had just blasphemed the Holy Spirit by saying that the work that had been done through me was of Satan. The mods acted so quickly and effectively. I was very relieved at how quickly they responded.

Get this...Beastt defended me and Ravenscape was one of the mods who enforced the rule. I am telling you guys, we have far less to fear from atheists as mods than we do those who have perverted the gospel. Atheists can be saved. Atheists are potential brothers and sisters. They are deceived but not so deceived that they have received and are preaching a perverted gospel. Atheists are blind, but those who preach such heresy, I am afraid in some cases, they have had their eyes burned out and will never see the truth.

Lisa
I dont mean this as judgemental, but i feel this has to be asked. Are you serious? You would make an atheist a mod on a Christian message board? Would you also make him your pastor and teacher?
It doesn't sound to me that Beastt came to your aid because you had converted him, is he converting you?

[Voegelin]

Atheists are preaching a gospel. Read Dawkins. Look at what the largest atheist group in the world, the communist Party of China, is doing. Read Bella Dodd or Whittaker Chambers. What atheists have done in the last century and are doing in China today is not pretty. I've had experience with them in this country and overseas for decades. Yes there are kids who are lost, tring to find themselves. There are atheists who are humanitarians and somehow are able to justify what organized atheism has done. But the core is not lost. It knows exactly what it wants and where it is going.

[Lisa0315]

I dont mean this as judgemental, but i feel this has to be asked. Are you serious? You would make an atheist a mod on a Christian message board? Would you also make him your pastor and teacher?
It doesn't sound to me that Beastt came to your aid because you had converted him, is he converting you?

No, Beastt is not converting me. ^_^ .

I said that I have no problem with non-Christians moderating in non-Christian areas such as debate. I also said that atheists are not as dangerous as those who profess a belief in Christ, but then, distort the Gospel into something very dangerous.

I do not see CF as a church. I see it as a message board. Would any Christian church have the kinds of arguments that go on here? Those arguments were going on long before atheists were allowed to moderate.

Lisa

[PastorMikeJ]

voted other...you are just confused...LOL

[Time2BCounted]

No, Beastt is not converting me. ^_^ .

I said that I have no problem with non-Christians moderating in non-Christian areas such as debate. I also said that atheists are not as dangerous as those who profess a belief in Christ, but then, distort the Gospel into something very dangerous.

I do not see CF as a church. I see it as a message board. Would any Christian church have the kinds of arguments that go on here? Those arguments were going on long before atheists were allowed to moderate.

Lisa
I'm confused. Is this not called 'Christian Forums'? You would want an atheist to monitor and moderate the creation and evolution and apologetics forum? You really dont see the danger in this?

What atheist board would have a Christian monitor their debating sections? You want to just hand this over? If this is how it would be i certainly agreee, take the name 'Christian' off and just and it to satan, "Here you go dude make your worst of it". Just give it away and let all the Christians be scattered elsewhere, what a plan.

[Lisa0315]

I'm confused. Is this not called 'Christian Forums'? You would want an atheist to monitor and moderate the creation and evolution and apologetics forum? You really dont see the danger in this?

What atheist board would have a Christian monitor their debating sections? You want to just hand this over? If this is how it would be i certainly agreee, take the name 'Christian' off and just and it to satan, "Here you go dude make your worst of it". Just give it away and let all the Christians be scattered elsewhere, what a plan.

Well, I suppose it has to do with how well I know most of them. They are not really ebil commy afeists, really.

They are people. They are potential brothers and sisters.

We are the moral majority, correct? Then, how come we haven't cleaned up our government of the corruption and sin infested in this country?

We are the Church, correct? Why are our divorce rates as high if not higher than the "sinners" out there?

Christian Forums was full of wolves and infiltrated by the minions of Satan long before atheists got here. Just look around at the brothers and sisters fighting here.

Love, forgiveness, and mercy are alien to some who post here at CF.

We do not need to worry about de ebil commy afeists. We need to get the beams out of our own eyes so we can lead these to the Lord.

Lisa

[NewGuy101]

Well, I suppose it has to do with how well I know most of them. They are not really ebil commy afeists, really.

They are people. They are potential brothers and sisters.

We are the moral majority, correct? Then, how come we haven't cleaned up our government of the corruption and sin infested in this country?

We are the Church, correct? Why are our divorce rates as high if not higher than the "sinners" out there?

Christian Forums was full of wolves and infiltrated by the minions of Satan long before atheists got here. Just look around at the brothers and sisters fighting here.

Love, forgiveness, and mercy are alien to some who post here at CF.

We do not need to worry about de ebil commy afeists. We need to get the beams out of our own eyes so we can lead these to the Lord.

Lisa
I agree with Time2Be in this one. This isn't about being judgmental and hypocritical but about keeping the integraty of Christianity. Too much of the world has infultrated the crhuch and the more we let other world views affect the Christian world view the more it will lose it's purity. I am strongly opposed to the idea of having non christian Mods. They are not objective we clearly see in this website that objectivity DOESN'T exist. That's one of the reasons we want only conservative mods in this forum.

BTW the fact that we have constant disagreements among each other that doesn't imply we should allow further division or perversion of the Gospel.

[Lisa0315]

I agree with Time2Be in this one. This isn't about being judgmental and hypocritical but about keeping the integraty of Christianity. Too much of the world has infultrated the crhuch and the more we let other world views affect the Christian world view the more it will lose it's purity. I am strongly opposed to the idea of having non christian Mods. They are not objective we clearly see in this website that objectivity DOESN'T exist. That's one of the reasons we want only conservative mods in this forum.

BTW the fact that we have constant disagreements among each other that doesn't imply we should allow further division or perversion of the Gospel.

It is not atheists who are perverting the Gospel. They could care less about the Gospel, so how can they pervert it? That is why I am saying that we have more to worry about from those who call themselves Christian and are now accepted as such under Erwin's definition.

Tell me which scenario is preferable to you in a staff room...

1) Two atheist staff members surrounded by Conservative Christians who are praising God, praying for one another, and having a good time together fellowshipping.

2) A blend of "Christians" in which subtle changes to the gospel are introduced, and enforced by "friendship". Well, they "act" Christian even if their gospel is a little funny.

Of these two scenarios, who is more likely to sway a Conservative Christian from the truth?

Lisa

[Time2BCounted]

Well, I suppose it has to do with how well I know most of them. They are not really ebil commy afeists, really.

They are people. They are potential brothers and sisters.

We are the moral majority, correct? Then, how come we haven't cleaned up our government of the corruption and sin infested in this country?

We are the Church, correct? Why are our divorce rates as high if not higher than the "sinners" out there?

Christian Forums was full of wolves and infiltrated by the minions of Satan long before atheists got here. Just look around at the brothers and sisters fighting here.

Love, forgiveness, and mercy are alien to some who post here at CF.

We do not need to worry about de ebil commy afeists. We need to get the beams out of our own eyes so we can lead these to the Lord.

Lisa
Potential brothers and sisters you say? How many have you seen come to this board and be converted. Right now you are wearing blinders. I would stake my membership that youve not converted a single atheist.

How much gospel have they already heard and rejected? We should be wise as serpents not overrun by them. If you have converted several atheists you may have a point. How many have you converted or even seen converted here?

Saul heard and the church could do nothing with him. It took God knocking him off his ass to make an impression and for most atheists here I would say the same is true.

Lets just pack it up and hand it to snakes, Should I second your proposal?

[Lisa0315]

Potential brothers and sisters you say? How many have you seen come to this board and be converted. Right now you are wearing blinders. I would stake my membership that youve not converted a single atheist.

How much gospel have they already heard and rejected? We should be wise as serpents not overrun by them. If you have converted several atheists you may have a point. How many have you converted or even seen converted here?

Saul heard and the church could do nothing with him. It took God knocking him off his ass to make an impression and for most atheists here I would say the same is true.

Lets just pack it up and hand it to snakes, Should I second your proposal?

:) You better turn your membership in then...I led one atheist to Christ via PM, and I had another send me a PM that they were far closer to believing in God after reading one of my posts than they had in their entire lives. To show you the power of God and that His word never returns void...That PM was in reference to a post that I had written some 18 months before. I have documentation for every bit of this, btw...

Then, there are the countless conversations I have had in PM. The month I spent with one atheist going through the Gospel of John, then, another month going through the book of Acts with him.

Most do reject Christ, but they will never be able to claim that they have not heard the truth. They will not be turned away from me because I am afraid that they may harm my faith. My faith is in the Lord my God, and I know why I am here. My primary mission is to the atheists. Secondary, is to be peacemaker. Third, is to have fun. When, I can combine these, all the better.

Conversation, trust, and friendship, these are powerful tools that this vessel has been trained to employ sucessfully.

Tell me. Do you think Satan plots and plans to steal souls? Why, then, should we not use counter strategy of love and friendship? Conversation, fun, discussion, laughter, a shoulder to cry upon...

Oh, the heart must be involved first my friend. We win no one without our hearts being involved. We love Jesus because He first loved us. If we are His ambassadors, then, let the world love His servants and through us, let them come to love Jesus.

Lisa

[Time2BCounted]

No problem I will leave this board. Just tell me whatever happened to not being unequally yoked with unbelievers, or is that not in your bible?

Too bad you prefer atheists over brothers and sisters. I have no desire to even be in this sort of a conservative forum now.


God bless

[Lisa0315]

No problem I will leave this board. Just tell me whatever happened to not being unequally yoked with unbelievers, or is that not in your bible?

Too bad you prefer atheists over brothers and sisters. I have no desire to even be in this sort of a conservative forum now.


God bless

That is your choice. However, you better get your interpretation of that Scripture down pat before you go...We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, true. This means a contractual relationship such as marriage or business partnership. It does not mean that we are to cross the street or forbid friendship to them.

Think on this. Pray on this.

I do not prefer atheists to my brothers and sisters. Why cannot I have both? Why does it have to be one or the other?

Lisa

[NewGuy101]

It is not atheists who are perverting the Gospel. They could care less about the Gospel, so how can they pervert it? That is why I am saying that we have more to worry about from those who call themselves Christian and are now accepted as such under Erwin's definition.

Tell me which scenario is preferable to you in a staff room...

1) Two atheist staff members surrounded by Conservative Christians who are praising God, praying for one another, and having a good time together fellowshipping.

2) A blend of "Christians" in which subtle changes to the gospel are introduced, and enforced by "friendship". Well, they "act" Christian even if their gospel is a little funny.

Of these two scenarios, who is more likely to sway a Conservative Christian from the truth?

Lisa

I don't want either one, I want fully commited Christians in a safe area. The athiest can have their own section and can also have an area to ask questions if they like. The so called "christians" are worse than the athiest themselves, they also need to be away from us. Both of their missions are to seek and destroy, those who are sincerely seeking will ask questions in the proper area.

[Lisa0315]

I don't want either one, I want fully commited Christians in a safe area. The athiest can have their own section and can also have an area to ask questions if they like. The so called "christians" are worse than the athiest themselves, they also need to be away from us. Both of their missions are to seek and destroy, those who are sincerely seeking will ask questions in the proper area.

Well, I was not sincerely seeking when I found God. Plus, if I had come here three years ago, I probably would have listed myself as agnostic, and very beligerant towards Christianity. I think about that when I see new atheists or even the old ones here at CF. I probably would have gotten banned before anyone even tried to witness to me. See? I see hard shells and hurt people. I do not see atheists. If you ask them their stories, many of them were raised in Christian homes and have been very, very hurt in the process. That is my story as well.

Lisa

[IchabodReturned]

:) You better turn your membership in then...I led one atheist to Christ via PM, and I had another send me a PM that they were far closer to believing in God after reading one of my posts than they had in their entire lives. To show you the power of God and that His word never returns void...That PM was in reference to a post that I had written some 18 months before. I have documentation for every bit of this, btw...

Then, there are the countless conversations I have had in PM. The month I spent with one atheist going through the Gospel of John, then, another month going through the book of Acts with him.

Most do reject Christ, but they will never be able to claim that they have not heard the truth. They will not be turned away from me because I am afraid that they may harm my faith. My faith is in the Lord my God, and I know why I am here. My primary mission is to the atheists. Secondary, is to be peacemaker. Third, is to have fun. When, I can combine these, all the better.

Conversation, trust, and friendship, these are powerful tools that this vessel has been trained to employ sucessfully.

Tell me. Do you think Satan plots and plans to steal souls? Why, then, should we not use counter strategy of love and friendship? Conversation, fun, discussion, laughter, a shoulder to cry upon...

Oh, the heart must be involved first my friend. We win no one without our hearts being involved. We love Jesus because He first loved us. If we are His ambassadors, then, let the world love His servants and through us, let them come to love Jesus.

Lisa
I see no holding to the bible in any of this. You seem to try to be redefining 'unequally yoked' to suit your own bias. I think there was a lot to the question as to who is converting who.

[Lisa0315]

I see no holding to the bible in any of this. You seem to try to be redefining 'unequally yoked' to suit your own bias. I think there was a lot to the question as to who is converting who.

Okay. I believe I could prove that out with some study, but regardless, I am not "yoked" to anyone here. I have an allegience to God Almighty, my husband, and my pastor. (Not sure if the pastor is to come before or after my husband...) Anyway, I do know my proper role and I am doing what I believe I am led to do.

I sure would like to know who you really are...:) I mean, maybe, you are new, but that user name sure intrigues me...^_^

Lisa

[MrJim]

I see no holding to the bible in any of this. You seem to try to be redefining 'unequally yoked' to suit your own bias. I think there was a lot to the question as to who is converting who.

As a newbie with 2 posts, why don't you just settle in and get to know us.

And if you've looked and don't like, then there are lots of other places to go. PM me and I can give ya some suggestions.

And if you're a sock :P stop hidin' and c'mon out and play.

This place is in a bit of turmoil, just like the world we live and work in~guess we'll get this figured out just like our lives in the world:prayer:

[IchabodReturned]

As a newbie with 2 posts, why don't you just settle in and get to know us.

And if you've looked and don't like, then there are lots of other places to go. PM me and I can give ya some suggestions.

And if you're a sock :P stop hidin' and c'mon out and play.

This place is in a bit of turmoil, just like the world we live and work in~guess we'll get this figured out just like our lives in the world:prayer:
Hi Jim,
Tried to PM you but I need 5 posts first lol

[Lisa0315]

Hi Jim,
Tried to PM you but I need 5 posts first lol

Okay, just give us a hint. Have you ever participated in a wiki at CF?

Lisa

[NewGuy101]

Well, I was not sincerely seeking when I found God. Plus, if I had come here three years ago, I probably would have listed myself as agnostic, and very beligerant towards Christianity. I think about that when I see new atheists or even the old ones here at CF. I probably would have gotten banned before anyone even tried to witness to me. See? I see hard shells and hurt people. I do not see atheists. If you ask them their stories, many of them were raised in Christian homes and have been very, very hurt in the process. That is my story as well.

Lisa
I was an atheist before myself. I knew that before God opened my eyes my mission was to get rid of all religious things. Well are all unrighteous without God and our mission is only to sin against him.

No one is saying not to fellowship with them, what I'm saying is their should be an area for that.