Should the MJF change it's name?

[Sephania]

From all the discussions I have seen I have come to the conclusion this should be discussed. Many have, for one reason or another, a problem with this forum being called Messianic Judaism. Even though the movement is named so , it is misleading of sorts. So that is where this poll comes in.

Would you like to see this forum change it's name to just The Messianic Forum?

I am purposely making this poll anonymous so there are no repercussions for someone to speak out. I am asking though that only MJ's, NTMJ'S Christian friends of Israel and this forum and non MJ Jews vote. Any other opinions are welcome in the thread, ( those voting may also discuss in this thread too of course:) ).

All those voting and commenting on this poll see also this one as they work in tandum Suggestion to split the MJF (http://www.christianforums.com/t5818722-suggestion-to-split-the-mjf.html)

[plum]

i guess just calling it "Messianic" would work.. No skin off my nose either way though.

it might help newbies get a better picture of the diversity of the movement. and fewer people would probably come in asking questions about traditional Judaism. some might see that as a positive or a negative.

i recall when i first came to CF I saw "Messianic Judaism" and I didn't think it was for me because I wasn't Jewish. so... I see changing the name as a welcoming gesture, not an exclusionary one

[Bananna]

I have mixed feelings about changing the name. I see our faith as Judaism, whether Noahide, or chrisitian or converting somewhere toward full observance it is all based on the Jewish religious writings of the bible.

Messianic Christianity would never have drawn me here, because it sounds too Romanized.

Messianic, might be more to our present group though, since we seem to have more gentiles than Jews. Torah observant would really leave out many of our posters that just are not at that level of study and observance yet. In the Age to come we will all be there.

What about Hebrew Roots?
bananna

[Wags]

I wouldn't mind if it changed to just "messianic" - little less confusing for some. Just hope no one mistakes us for Massonic. :)

[stone]

You may be onto something here Z.

[christianmomof3]

just don't shorten the name too much or it would be "messy" :sorry:

[stone]

just don't shorten the name too much or it would be "messy" :sorry:


lol

[simchat_torah]

I think many Jews would be happy if it took away the "Judaism" part of the name. Most Jews feel as though some branch of christianity is stealing its monkier. Even some within MJ'ism such as yourself lean strongly towards the christian aspect of their faith and reject most things stringently "jewish"... and those individuals would agree to change the name.

Yet there are those who are fervently Jewish within the MJ community that would see it as a sad day. They would see it as a day of divorce when the "Judaism" is dropped from MJ.

The problem is, you're dealing with a diverse community and not everyone thinks like you. The name captures the diverse nature of the community.

However, myself being on the outside, I personally prefer it Judaism were dropped off. It would lend less credibility to its claim as a legitimate sect of Judaism ;) But that's just me. So yeah... good luck to you.

:D

[simchat_torah]

just don't shorten the name too much or it would be "messy" :sorry:Oh, this is something I've been calling the movement for almost a decade now. Various leaders have lied about their Jewish Heritage, some want to be christians, some want to be Jews, some observe all the mitzvot and halacha, some observe on that which their messiah reiterated, some observe none, some wear tzitzit, some don't... etc etc. etc. etc.

It is a very messy movement, and even when I was messianic I would cheekily call it Messyantics. ;)

[Sephania]

I think many Jews would be happy if it took away the "Judaism" part of the name. Most Jews feel as though some branch of christianity is stealing its monkier. Even some within MJ'ism such as yourself lean strongly towards the christian aspect of their faith and reject most things stringently "jewish"... and those individuals would agree to change the name.

Yet there are those who are fervently Jewish within the MJ community that would see it as a sad day. They would see it as a day of divorce when the "Judaism" is dropped from MJ.

The problem is, you're dealing with a diverse community and not everyone thinks like you. The name captures the diverse nature of the community.

However, myself being on the outside, I personally prefer it Judaism were dropped off. It would lend less credibility to its claim as a legitimate sect of Judaism ;) But that's just me. So yeah... good luck to you.

:DSince no post was quoted it is hard to determine who this is directed at, ST?

[Bananna]

just don't shorten the name too much or it would be "messy" :sorry:
Messi - Messy LOL

bananna:D

[Bananna]

Okay, I voted, but it was hard. I'm not complaining if it changes or not. May God use this to show us His will.

Bananna

[Sephania]

Yes, it may be Messy, but I hesitate to call it that because the word Messianic comes from Messiah, and I would not disparage him in any case.

[HadassahSukkot]

I have mixed feelings about changing the name. I see our faith as Judaism, whether Noahide, or chrisitian or converting somewhere toward full observance it is all based on the Jewish religious writings of the bible.

Messianic Christianity would never have drawn me here, because it sounds too Romanized...

I think many Jews would be happy if it took away the "Judaism" part of the name. Most Jews feel as though some branch of christianity is stealing its monkier. Even some within MJ'ism such as yourself lean strongly towards the christian aspect of their faith and reject most things stringently "jewish"... and those individuals would agree to change the name.

Yet there are those who are fervently Jewish within the MJ community that would see it as a sad day. They would see it as a day of divorce when the "Judaism" is dropped from MJ.

The problem is, you're dealing with a diverse community and not everyone thinks like you. The name captures the diverse nature of the community....




I don't mind bein on the record saying No change.

[Kalanit]

I absolutely think it should stay "Messianic Judaism."

Those who are Jewish have a hard enough time fighting assimilation as it is. The Faith is Jewish in origin. Take away the "Jewish" part and you have no Messiah. Period.

Personally, I think it would be nice to have a category within this category that included Christian Zionists, Non- Messianc Jews, etc. for those who are supportive of Israel and connected to her in some way - through ethnicity and culture or prayer intercession etc.

[Kalanit]

Most Jews feel as though some branch of christianity is stealing its monkier

Many Messianic Jews feel they have had their own heritage and faith ripped from them by Christianity - and they are in the process of taking it back.

It will all pan out in the wash.

[muffler dragon]

Good poll, Z.

Personally, I would call it, "Messianism". But like others have said, I would just recommend dropping the "Judaism" part.

[christianmomof3]

Here is an interesting article on MJism.
http://www.mcu.edu/papers/mess_jud.htm
and it concludes with this:

If present trends continue, the Messianic movement in the United States will likely achieve more success in the coming years. However, while its acceptance may grow among Gentile Christians, there is little likelihood that the same acceptance will be granted by the American Jewish community. Thus, Messianic Jews will probably remain on the outside of this community, looking in.

[Charles YTK]

Yes, Change it to something else, Like:

TOBY Island

or, Rabbinical Believers Forum

[simchat_torah]

Since no post was quoted it is hard to determine who this is directed at, ST?Why the OP of course ;)

[simchat_torah]

Many Messianic Jews feel they have had their own heritage and faith ripped from them by Christianity - and they are in the process of taking it back.
Considering I've never heard this, I doubt it would be "many".

[Bananna]

Maybe I should ask the two Messianic Rabbi's I know what they think. I'm the outsider on the name thing looking in.
I think it MJ should stay MJ because when I asked God He brought to mind, that Yeshua is Jewish. We follow the Jewish Messiah. We truely believe and support Jews who believe Yeshua is the messiah and That is the group we have aligned ourselves with in the Name of Yeshua.

Otherwise i would have voted for the removal of the Jewish part. We will take more flack with "Jewish" part of the name and I figure that is the least we can put up with to stand up for the lineage of Messiah.

(no offense in toward the views or persons of our J and N posters is intended)

[ChavaK]

While I think the entire movement should remove
"Judaism" from it's title, maybe doing that in this
forum will be a step in the right direction.
Given that most of it's adherents are not Jewish,
the theology is not Jewish, and it would be
less confusing to visitors to the forum I think
"Messianic Forum" would be an improvement
and a clarification of what the faith is...
but it's not my forum, so I leave it to the
rest of you to decide....

:wave:

[visionary]

If any change from Messianic Judaism... it could be to Jewish Messiahship

[ChavaK]

If any change from Messianic Judaism... it could be to Jewish Messiahship

Why the need to include "Jewish"?
JM still indicates (at least to me) that
it is a Jewish movement, comprised
of Jews, which it is not...
:wave:

[christianmomof3]

While I think the entire movement should remove
"Judaism" from it's title, maybe doing that in this
forum will be a step in the right direction.
Given that most of it's adherents are not Jewish,
the theology is not Jewish, and it would be
less confusing to visitors to the forum I think
"Messianic Forum" would be an improvement
and a clarification of what the faith is...
but it's not my forum, so I leave it to the
rest of you to decide....

:wave:
I agree. I like the term "Messianic Forum" as well.
I realize the movement is called Messianic Judaism, but the name is misleading to many people, myself included because it sounds like it is composed of Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah (which I am). But apparantly that is not what MJ is.
MJ appears to be a movement of mainly gentile Christians who are embracing parts of the Jewish religion and reaching out to the Jewish people with Christ.
On this forum many people see the term MJ and come here asking questions about Judaism because they think it is Jewish people, of which there are some, but that is not mainly who MJ are.

[Ahavah]

How about Torah Observant Believers forum?

"Messianic" is too general...Just like "Christian."
Many "Kinds" of "Chrisitians"..with different beliefs.
Many "Kinds" of Messianics"...with different beliefs.
Some Messianics are sacred namers, some follow Torah to the "T", and some dont'.... some Messianics believe this..and others that.
This forum and it's memebers are pretty specific in thier beliefs, why not call it for what it is then? TO believers.

[christianmomof3]

How about Torah Observant Believers forum?

"Messianic" is too general...Just like "Christian."
Many "Kinds" of "Chrisitians"..with different beliefs.
Many "Kinds" of Messianics"...with different beliefs.
Some Messianics are sacred namers, some follow Torah to the "T", and some dont'.... some Messianics believe this..and others that.
This forum and it's memebers are pretty specific in thier beliefs, why not call it for what it is then? TO believers.
If they do that ( which would leave out many Messianic believers) they need to clearly define what they mean by "Torah Observant".

[ContraMundum]

Those who are Jewish have a hard enough time fighting assimilation as it is.

Assimilation is a two way thing. One can't force Jews to assimilate, nor can one force themselves into the Jewish nation by adopting the name or culture etc, which is another kind of assimilation with equal damaging results.

[Ivy]

Messi - Messy LOL

bananna:D

Mem Sin Sin Yud

(did I do it right?) ;)

[ContraMundum]

How about Torah Observant Believers forum?

While that's an excellent suggestion, it may not help much, as 99% of the disputes here that end in despair for someone are at the end of the day over the definition of what Torah observance actually is- the "how, when and who" of MJism.

[muffler dragon]

Mem Sin Sin Yud

(did I do it right?) ;)

I prefer Shin overy Sin, but maybe you're being prophetic. :P :D

And don't forget to write from right to left.

[Ivy]

I prefer Shin overy Sin, but maybe you're being prophetic. :P :D

And don't forget to write from right to left.

I yam. :P

Duy Nihs Nihs Mem :P

Okay, Okay......Yud Shin Shin Mem :holy: :holy:

I'm going to Sin by going to eat some cookies now.

[Sephania]

Why the need to include "Jewish"?
JM still indicates (at least to me) that
it is a Jewish movement, comprised
of Jews, which it is not...
:wave:
The movement was started by Jews for Jews, gentiles just know a good thing when they see it. ;)

[stone]

The movement was started by Jews for Jews, gentiles just know a good thing when they see it. ;)

nothing wrong with this ya know. Isn't this what father intended?

I think the name change may be a compromise out of respect towards our Jewish brethren. I'm still thinking about this. King David often made compromises within his kingdom to maintain the peace right? As did Solomon?

This is how i see it, we're still messianics, within the Messianic Judaism movement, all that is changeing here in this forum is the title. It's like the book cover reads, Messianic, but when you open it, the Judaism within this christian movement is exposed. Anyone that acknowledges Y-shua as messiah is a christian regardless.

I still say i believe Z may be onto something here.

[muffler dragon]

stone:

I would state that belief in so-and-so is never a violation of the Torah nor does it have a bearing on whether someone is "Jewish"; however, the superfluous considerations can deem it un-Judaic. If the majority of Messianics believe the Jesus is G-d; then this is no longer Judaic. And this is just one of many topics, but it's a huge one. If the forum wants to remain as Christian subgroup that espouses the Nicene Creed; then I would definitely suggest a name change.

I say the above with the complete understanding that this is your forum, and I will follow whatever decision is made. Just stating an opinion.

[Sephania]

nothing wrong with this ya know. Isn't this what father intended?

I think the name change may be a compromise out of respect towards our Jewish brethren. I'm still thinking about this. King David often made compromises within his kingdom to maintain the peace right? As did Solomon?

This is how i see it, we're still messianics, within the Messianic Judaism movement, all that is changeing here in this forum is the title. It's like the book cover reads, Messianic, but when you open it, the Judaism within this christian movement is exposed. Anyone that acknowledges Y-shua as messiah is a christian regardless.

I still say i believe Z may be onto something here. Very good Stone, I like what you said about David, that is what I was thinking too, about making it more peaceful and not so much a barrier for the reasons mentioned in other polls. That why there won't be as much misunderstanding for guests and PB Jews won't feel it is misrepresenting. :)

[Sephania]

Please check out this poll and vote and comment there as well, they go together. Suggestion to split the MJF (http://www.christianforums.com/t5818722-suggestion-to-split-the-mjf.html)

[Kalanit]

Considering I've never heard this, I doubt it would be "many".

You've never heard this? Well, ok. I have.

Assimilation is a two way thing. One can't force Jews to assimilate, nor can one force themselves into the Jewish nation by adopting the name or culture etc, which is another kind of assimilation with equal damaging results.

Yes, I totally understand. However, forced assimilation has occurred through out history for political and religious reasons. I'm very supportive of people embracing their own specific cultural heritage and 'taking it back' from the enemy through prayer intercession, reconciliation and walking out their specific calling according to Kingdom principals.

I also believe it is detrimental to the Kingdom when people do not walk according to their calling - or tell others it is ok to not walk according to their calling. IMO, it's a worthy fight - but I'm not so sure I want to spend my time with it on this particular forum.

[HadassahSukkot]

Agreed Kalanit.

Forced assimilation is apparently something my family went through, and imho are still suffering from (yes, suffering).

I am behind your statement 100%

[visionary]

One Nation under God...From all nations.... what would it reflect... in the millinium... Messianic Judaism

[ContraMundum]

Yes, I totally understand. However, forced assimilation has occurred through out history for political and religious reasons. I'm very supportive of people embracing their own specific cultural heritage and 'taking it back' from the enemy through prayer intercession, reconciliation and walking out their specific calling according to Kingdom principals.

If we're not careful, we will get "loved to death" by this new version of assimilation.

I also believe it is detrimental to the Kingdom when people do not walk according to their calling - or tell others it is ok to not walk according to their calling. IMO, it's a worthy fight - but I'm not so sure I want to spend my time with it on this particular forum.

That's the $64 dollar question, isn't it?

[debi b]

bookmark :wave:

[muffler dragon]

That's the $64 dollar question, isn't it?

*cough*

It's the $64 THOUSAND question. Who gives a rip about $64? :D :P

[Tishri1]

bumping will request a name change when this poll closes tomorrow:wave:

[Tishri1]

:)

[simchat_torah]

Tishri is no longer available... the bumpbot has taken over her account ;)

[Tishri1]

http://www.terranuts.com/forums/images/smilies/stars.gif^_^

[Letalis]

Alright, name is changed. :)

[Henaynei]

Alright, name is changed. :) I didn't see this thread until this evening - wish I hgad, not that my vote would have changed the out come, the other side was too over whelming.... and I was not at all sure I *had* voting rights anyway.....

but I grieve the name change .... but that is not a bad thing, you'll be seeing a lot less of me around here....

b'Shalom
Henaynei

[Tishri1]

but you get your own forum henny just wait about five minutes and it will arrive:wave:

[Henaynei]

but you get your own forum henny just wait about five minutes and it will arrive:wave:pray tell.... what did I miss?:scratch:

[Bananna]

I think she meant one special to your heart... not one that belongs to your... LOL And Just cause we love you. And we like being there with you.

Bananna

[Henaynei]

I think she meant one special to your heart... not one that belongs to your... LOL And Just cause we love you. And we like being there with you.

BanannaLOL - I didn't think she meant *my* forum - I just have no idea what she DID mean :confused:

[Talmidah]

LOL - I didn't think she meant *my* forum - I just have no idea what she DID mean :confused:

I think she meant this:

Orthodox Messianic Fellowship Forum (http://www.christianforums.com/f359-orthodox-messianic-fellowship-forum.html) or the fact that this forum's new name is nowThe Messianic Forum (http://www.christianforums.com/f34)

[ChavaK]

I like the name change....I think it much
better reflects what the forum is...

[Ivy]

Glad to see the name changes & reorganization going on......kudos for all your hard work, Tishri! :thumbsup: :hug:

[Talmidah]

I like the name change....I think it much
better reflects what the forum is...I agree

[ContraMundum]

I *love* it. Why? 'Cos we're all Messianic in one sense or another.

[christianmomof3]

I like the name change. :thumbsup: But I don't think it should be abbreviated to MF. :sorry:

[simchat_torah]

I like the name change....I think it much
better reflects what the forum is...Absolutely ;)

[Henaynei]

I like the name change....I think it much
better reflects what the forum is... ..... and that is the sad part.

[muffler dragon]

..... and that is the sad part.

How so?

[Henaynei]

How so?I'm sorry, but I don't believe either my comment or your understanding are so obtuse as to require an answer to that :)

The name change having been made a discussion on the tragedy of culture on this forum that necessitated or supported that change does not belong here.


b'Shalom
Henaynei

[muffler dragon]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe either my comment or your understanding are so obtuse as to require an answer to that :)

The name change having been made a discussion on the tragedy of culture on this forum that necessitated or supported that change does not belong here.


b'Shalom
Henaynei

Okay. Just thought I would ask. To each their own.

[stone]

Poll is closed.

closeing thread.