Isaiah 66:17

[fremen]

Hello!

Can anyone tell me what the Messianic view is on Isaiah 66:17:

"Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things--they will meet their end together," declares the Lord."


Ich dank aych zeyer!

Fremen

[Sephania]

many believe this speaks against Jesus declaring 'all foods clean' to include pork is the wrong interpretation. The things mentioned in that verse refer to uncleanness which has no part of holiness, and therefore shall be destroyed by the Holy One.

[Bananna]

Isa 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon [her] sides, and be dandled upon [her] knees.

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.


Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.


Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


Isa 66:18 ¶ For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.


Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.


Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.


Our God is a consuming fire. Those that do what is wicked will be judged The Lord will separate the sheep from the goats.

The Jews practiced unlawful behavior and were consumed the those that survive and are scattered will be brought back on the vehicles of the Nations who saw God's glory through the lives of the Jews there among them. Then the gentiles being saved will as a offering to the Lord bring the people back into the Land of Israel.

[Sephania]

Here's something that may help you:

Torah / Rabbinical Kosher for Gentiles (http://tzion.org/articles/Kosher.html#Torah%20/%20Rabinic%20Kosher%20for%20Gentiles) Sooooo, who establishes what is out of place for a Jew or Gentile? G-d does. He told Noach that anything that moved was okay for food (Gen 9:3 (http://tzion.org/articles/Kosher.html#Gen%209:3)). G-d commanded him to bring seven clean animals on the boat but only two unclean. G-d knew what was clean and unclean and apparently Noach did also. However, Noach and the ancestors of Avraham were not the only ones being cared for here. The descendants of every race and tribe on the earth were present in Noach and his family.
In the process of gathering the animals, I'm sure, G-d told Noach what animals were clean and what were unclean, if he didn't already know. After Noach found out what animals were clean and unclean, I'm sure, he chose for himself to eat the clean animals and not eat the unclean ones because he was a tzadik (righteous) man. Also, he would not eat anything that wasn't offered to G-d as a sacrifice.
In conclusion, Noach, a man of righteousness, more than likely, ate only clean animals and did not eat or drink blood. At the same time he was commanded that anything that moves will be food for you i.e. MANKIND. Because the distinction was made between clean and unclean, we can also know that it was good, for those who wanted to, to eat only clean animals. We also know that G-d allowed non-Jewish mankind to eat unclean food without becoming un-righteous in His sight.
HOWEVER! Those who wish to walk with Israel as sojourners, spiritually or physically, were not to eat of the unclean.
Isaiah 66:17 (http://tzion.org/articles/Kosher.html#Isaiah%2066:17) was written to Israel and all that love Jerusalem (verse10). There is one law for the descendants of Israel and the stranger who sojourns with them (Exodus 12:49 (http://tzion.org/articles/Kosher.html#Exodus%2012:49), Lev 7:7, Num 15:16,29 etc. etc.). This would include those who align themselves, spiritually or physically, with Israel. The Church, however, has not aligned themselves with Israel, spiritually or physically. This is a shame and will be dealt with by the L-rd when he comes.


ttp://tzion.org/articles/Kosher.html

[Sephania]

the verse 10 preceding those others tells who it is speaking to:

10 Rejoice with Yerushalayim! Be glad with her, all you who love her! Rejoice, rejoice with her, all of you who mourned for her; 1

This can be Jew or gentile, as explained in that article above.

[visionary]

We also know that G-d allowed non-Jewish mankind to eat unclean food without becoming un-righteous in His sight.What?????..... Are you saying.. ...............Gentiles bodies are made tougher and can take toxins in better??? Animals not considered edible by God ... should not be eated... PERIOD.

[fremen]

So there's no consensus among Messianics over this? :confused:

Dank!

Fremen

[Charles YTK]

Fremen,

Yeshua (Jesus) never declared all food clean. If you read the passage in context he declared that eating food with unwashed hands did not make it ritually unclean. That was the question , ritual handwashing practiced by the Pharisees. Did eating with unwashed hands make otherwise clean food unfit to eat? Yeshua said no, that the Pharisees had many such laws which only placed a man in bondage.

Biblical Kosher food laws remain for all those who are faithful to God and followers of Yeshua. Kosher food is listed in the bible (Leviticus) with things like homosexuality and beastiality. They are all abominations according to God. It is unbelieveable that so many churches come out against homosexuality and identify it as an abomination to God and pronouce their judgments while eating a plate full of pork and shell fish at ther church dinners and in their homes. It is the same God and the same law. They are both called abomiations by God. Yes, eating pork and shellfish is just as much an abomination as homosexulity!!

In Isaiah 66 the prophet is looking forward to the cleansing of the earth in the Messianic (Millennial ) Kingdom. That which the church has allowed will be rectified and unclean food will no longer be tollerated.

Unlike Zayit, who is on a recent campaign to make most of God's commandments exclusive to Jews only, and believes that Gentiles can eat anything, but I doubt that she would think that God would allow Gentiles to take part in homosexuality or beastiality and other abominations. I would recommend you bypass her advice in this matter.

In Messiah Yeshua there is one covenant and one law for all for both Jews and Gentiles. We are all wrapped together as one people saved by the same Messiah and living for the same Messiah.

God separated all men into two groups which remian to this day, the righteous and the unrighteous. Any man could become part of Israel. It was not about ethnicity, and neither is your relationship to God through Messiah a matter of ethnicity. He made one new man out of Jew and Gentile. We have one law, that which is written on our hearts and which is reflected in some detail in the Tanakh. That which is taught by Yeshua, the Apostles or taught by the prophets for the Kingdom of God pertains to all of God's children, both Gentile and Jew.

[Charles YTK]

So there's no consensus among Messianics over this? :confused:

Dank!

Fremen
There is little concensus among Messainics because we do not have a single ruling council like a denomination does, and many bring their own religion and their ethnicity into their beliefs. The latest thrust is to try and make the Messianic faith strictly a Jewish movement and neglecting the fact that Gentiles were also part of the early church and those who received the spirit of God. It is important to remember that those Gentiles were live animal eating, idol worshipping Pagans and not former Christians converting to a Hebraic expression of faith. They had little knowledge or preconceptions about God to bring with them. That is not true today. Most Messianics are Gentiles and former christians of various flavors. They bring all that baggage with them rather than starting with a clean view of the scriptures to guide them.

[A_Pioneer]

Mimimum rules for Gentiles to join with Israel and the WAY;
that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."

Kosher slaughter of kosher animals was known all over, here-by demanded of new converts by the Church Fathers.

There is a concencus among the rank and file of Messianics, some degree of kosher.

Shalom

[stone]

Hello!

Can anyone tell me what the Messianic view is on Isaiah 66:17:

"Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things--they will meet their end together," declares the Lord."


Ich dank aych zeyer!

Fremen

The main point i see here has nothing to do with what is put in the mouth and consumed, except that those who follow this thing in the midst of this garden, this thing that eats unclean, will perish.

Sounds to me like a warning to those that follow lawlessness.