What are Prophets? and are they Gone?

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

What are Prophets: and do they exist any more?

Its Kind of a trick question. As a lot of Gods words have overlapping truths and seemingly contradictions in truths.

But The " Prophets are until John" which means that "prophets are passed out of the land"zechariah 13;2. But in truth the Prophets are not Gone, they Just have a new title. And that Title is Christians, with "Spiritofprophecy " As paul taught.

And also as Paul taught, that the word of God is now perfect; and christians of Spiritofprophecy; only reveal and interpret in spirit the Prophecies already Given.

I ask not one take offense by my words, and interpretations.

God bless C.F. and all who use it.:)
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[Oscarr]

The Old Testament prophet became a thing of the past as soon as Jesus was revealed as the Risen Son of God seated at the right hand of the Father. On the Day of Pentecost, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers and to be their counsellor and teacher. This made the Old Testament prophet redundant.

The Old Testament prophet's ministry was directed toward the Jews under the Law and sacrifices. When Jesus rose from the dead, believers became recreated in Christ, and the labels 'Jew' and 'Gentile' fell away, because all believers Jew or Gentile became one type of new creation in Christ. They became a new creature, leaving the old labels behind.

The ministry of the Old Testament prophet was superceded by the ministry of the Holy Spirit within the life of the believer. Christian believers no longer need a human prophet to teach them the ways of God. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would teach us all things.

The New Testament gift of prophecy is quite different. It has a completely different function in the Christian church. Paul describes its function in 1Corinthians14.

Even though we have the printed Bible, it is still not perfect. Only the Word of God coming through the Holy Spirit is perfect. Therefore the Word of God does not come from the text of our translations of the Bible, it comes through them. We still need to fellowship with the Holy Spirit as we seek to understand the printed Scriptures.

When Paul referred to 'that which is perfect is come' He was talking about the revealing of the Bride of Christ at the second coming of Jesus. There are Scriptures that clearly point toward the revelations of the Sons of God at that time. This is what Paul is talking about. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are tools to assist the spreading of the Gospel and for the building up of the body of Christ, until Jesus comes and the pure and spotless Bride of Christ is revealed to the world. This is the perfect entity that is still to come, and when it has come, the gifts of the Spirit will pass away because they will become redundant.

Cessationists say that the formation of our printed Scriptures are the perfect thing that makes the gifts of the Spirit redundant, but if you think about it carefully, what translation of the Scriptures is actually perfect? Every translation we have has errors in it. Even the original documents are flawed because they were written from the memories of the authors of events that happened more than 30 years after the events happened. Therefore our printed Scriptures do not fit into the profile of perfection that Paul is referring to.

But it is very clear that what is totally perfect is the revealing of the true Church of Christ, the Bride of Christ that will be revealed when Jesus comes again with all His saints. These are the ones dressed in white surrounding the throne of God singing His praises and worshiping the Lamb of God, the risen, glorified, Jesus Christ.

So, until them, we have the New Testament gift of prophecy operating in the church among those who believe in it. Its purpose is to encourage, build up, and comfort the people of God. New Testament prophecies are love letters between God and His people.

There is an error among some churches that practice prophecy. They try to model their prophecies on Old Testament principles, with judgemental words spoken in very formal language - trying to emulate the Old Testament prophet. These are not true New Testament prophecies. The Old Testament style of prophecy passed away with the coming of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.

Now, the Holy Spirit uses the New Testament gift of prophecy to speak words of comfort and encouragement to His people when they need it.

[jive4005]

I need to ask a question.

Does one need to be a Prophet in order to forsee God's will in someone's life?
The reason I ask... I have been witness to some Ministers (they just happen to be Baptist... ) that indeed spoke prophetic things to other Christians... and these things DID come about.

I'm serious about this... I don't know a lot about prophecy. My own ministries focus upon relationship(s) with God and between Christians.
But I'm really interested in knowing what IS as opposed to WHAT SEEMS TO BE!

His,
Rev J

[bluemarkus]

prophets are not gone, i have met some of them.

[ozell]

I need to ask a question.

Does one need to be a Prophet in order to forsee God's will in someone's life?
The reason I ask... I have been witness to some Ministers (they just happen to be Baptist... ) that indeed spoke prophetic things to other Christians... and these things DID come about.

I'm serious about this... I don't know a lot about prophecy. My own ministries focus upon relationship(s) with God and between Christians.
But I'm really interested in knowing what IS as opposed to WHAT SEEMS TO BE!

His,
Rev J

how can this be when Jesus said his testimony is about
prophecy

Rv 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


How can this be when the gospelis the good news of the COMING Kingdom of God.

Mt 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mt 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

The OT tells of the coming of Jesus in the flesh and the coming of Jesus the second time

all Prophecy told of by the PROPHETS

testified on by the apostles and us.

[seekthelight]

prophets are not gone, i have met some of them.
You have?

Would you care to explain further ?

[jive4005]

Yes...
How CAN this be?

Only thing I can come up with is that I just don't understand things well enough. So for now I'll just believe that He knows best and however it IS it IS!

I'll just keep digging into it!

His,
Rev J

[tturt]

Yes, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Christ Jesus. That's the reason why Paul says every Christian should prophecy. There is the office of prophet, the spirit of prophecy, faith to prophecy, etc. Prophets are for today. Here are just a few verses about prophets:

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Acts 2:17
' AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS."

Wondering what your questions are? Not interested in arguing/debating/discussing whether or not prophets are for today or not though.

[Dave01]

This is one of the most misunderstood and abused offices in the 5 fold ministries.

First off,...anyone that is Spirit-filled and received the gifts of The Holy Spirit can have the gift of prophecy,...anyone. The gift of prophecy will always be "Edification and Exhortation and comfort." It will always be those three things together in each message to the congregation, everytime.

Secondly,...Anyone can have the gift of the word of knowledge operating in their spiritual walk, but that does not make them a prophet. That gift is a requirement for a prophet though, because it is the revelation gift that is used in conjunction with prophecy at times. This sort of forthtelling type prophecy would be personal, not corporate, but just someone operating in the word of knowledge does not make them a prophet.

Thirdly,...A true prophet will have the power gifts operating in their life. There are three, the gift of faith, the working of miracles, and the gifts of healings. If there are not at least one of these three power gifts operating on a regular basis in the person's life (most likely all three will be), then their claim to fame as a prophet is null and void. It matters not how great prophetically they operate in the word of knowledge, the actual office of a prophet is very exact and always powerful, and has too many examples in the OT and NT for people to say differently.

If people would take this guideline and start using it, we would not see so many false claims in church's and abroad. If a person doesn't have revelation knowledge flowing, and does not have the power gifts operating in their life, they are not a prophet, period.

[jive4005]

"WORD OF KNOWLEDGE"... yes, that's what I was trying to remember. Thanks!


His,
Rev J

[tturt]

There is also a word of wisdom (I Cor. 12:8)

[Zecryphon]

I need to ask a question.

Does one need to be a Prophet in order to forsee God's will in someone's life?
The reason I ask... I have been witness to some Ministers (they just happen to be Baptist... ) that indeed spoke prophetic things to other Christians... and these things DID come about.

I'm serious about this... I don't know a lot about prophecy. My own ministries focus upon relationship(s) with God and between Christians.
But I'm really interested in knowing what IS as opposed to WHAT SEEMS TO BE!

His,
Rev J
"I have been witness to some Ministers (they just happen to be Baptist... ) that indeed spoke prophetic things to other Christians... and these things DID come about."

Can you give us an example of one such prophecy? How specific was it? Or were these vague prophecies, where some of the things foretold came to pass? My understanding of the prophets in the OT is that they were all Jewish. To me that says it must have been one of the requirements for being a prophet of God. The other requirement was that your prophecy had to come to pass with 100% accuracy. If it did not, you were considered a false prophet. See Deuteronomy 18:15-22 (ESV):


Deu 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers--it is to him you shall listen--

Deu 18:16 just as you desired of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.'

Deu 18:17 And the LORD said to me, 'They are right in what they have spoken.

Deu 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Deu 18:19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

Deu 18:20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

Deu 18:21 And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?'--

Deu 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.


So did this prophecy of the Baptist minister come to pass with 100% accuracy, or is a little Biblical justice in order?

[tturt]

I've been told the Lord was healing me and that is happening. Each doctor's report I receive afterwards vertifies that prophectic word.

[Zecryphon]

"There are three, the gift of faith, the working of miracles, and the gifts of healings. If there are not at least one of these three power gifts operating on a regular basis in the person's life (most likely all three will be), then their claim to fame as a prophet is null and void."

You have a problem here. One of the things that makes a miracle a miracle is that it does not happen on a regular basis. So if that's true, then a person can't be performing miracles everyday. The word miracle is so overused by the Word-Faith crowd and others that it has lost its intended meaning.

mir·a·cle http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png /ˈmɪrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngkəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mir-uh-kuhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

[The Princess Bride]

This is one of the most misunderstood and abused offices in the 5 fold ministries.

First off,...anyone that is Spirit-filled and received the gifts of The Holy Spirit can have the gift of prophecy,...anyone. The gift of prophecy will always be "Edification and Exhortation and comfort." It will always be those three things together in each message to the congregation, everytime.

Secondly,...Anyone can have the gift of the word of knowledge operating in their spiritual walk, but that does not make them a prophet. That gift is a requirement for a prophet though, because it is the revelation gift that is used in conjunction with prophecy at times. This sort of forthtelling type prophecy would be personal, not corporate, but just someone operating in the word of knowledge does not make them a prophet.

Thirdly,...A true prophet will have the power gifts operating in their life. There are three, the gift of faith, the working of miracles, and the gifts of healings. If there are not at least one of these three power gifts operating on a regular basis in the person's life (most likely all three will be), then their claim to fame as a prophet is null and void. It matters not how great prophetically they operate in the word of knowledge, the actual office of a prophet is very exact and always powerful, and has too many examples in the OT and NT for people to say differently.

If people would take this guideline and start using it, we would not see so many false claims in church's and abroad. If a person doesn't have revelation knowledge flowing, and does not have the power gifts operating in their life, they are not a prophet, period.
Took the words right out of my mouth! :thumbsup:

[tturt]

Yeah, the Word of Faith crowd that I know - expect to see miracles and we do see them.

But I would like to know where the definition of a "true prophet" is in the Word.

[Zecryphon]

Yeah, the Word of Faith crowd that I know - expect to see miracles and we do see them.

But I would like to know where the definition of a "true prophet" is in the Word.
I don't use the word "true", when talking about prophets. Either you are a prophet of God or you aren't. Look at the verses I've quoted previously from Deuteronomy. Those are some good guidelines to follow when trying to decide who is and is not of God. Also remember to whom the author was writing and about what the author was writing, basically what was going on at that time.

1 Corinthians 12 addresses the issue of gifts and makes it clear to me that each member of the body may be blessed with a gift, meaning one, by the Holy Spirit. I don't see that numerous gifts are given to each person. I see that some are given the gift of prophecy, some are given the gift of healing, some are given the gift of distinguishing between spirits, etc. If one person has the gift of prophecy, he is not to look down his nose at the person who has a different gift like, healing. Gifts in the church to me are like members of the church, no one gifts is any more important than another gift. All work together for the strengthening of the body of Christ on earth.

[jive4005]

I recall a night a visiting minister prophecised to a member about a future ministry... came true. Same minister is/was well known in New england area as a man with that gift. What He spoke to me tho general in nature was right on the money!

His,
Rev J

[Dave01]

You have a problem here. One of the things that makes a miracle a miracle is that it does not happen on a regular basis. So if that's true, then a person can't be performing miracles everyday. The word miracle is so overused by the Word-Faith crowd and others that it has lost its intended meaning.[/COLOR]


GOD's actions are not based on your opinions and what you think. What HE does is what HE does, and if HE wants to do miracles every single hour, HE will.

Any person serving in a position listed in the 5-fold ministry will have a strong anointing upon them for certain gifts and authority. If they don't, get away from them fast.

GOD does not give HIS approval upon a person until they are full-grown as a son or daughter of Christ. HE will not anoint children.

[Dave01]

I don't use the word "true", when talking about prophets. Either you are a prophet of God or you aren't. Look at the verses I've quoted previously from Deuteronomy. Those are some good guidelines to follow when trying to decide who is and is not of God. Also remember to whom the author was writing and about what the author was writing, basically what was going on at that time.

1 Corinthians 12 addresses the issue of gifts and makes it clear to me that each member of the body may be blessed with a gift, meaning one, by the Holy Spirit. I don't see that numerous gifts are given to each person. I see that some are given the gift of prophecy, some are given the gift of healing, some are given the gift of distinguishing between spirits, etc. If one person has the gift of prophecy, he is not to look down his nose at the person who has a different gift like, healing. Gifts in the church to me are like members of the church, no one gifts is any more important than another gift. All work together for the strengthening of the body of Christ on earth.

You are going on some false information here. Any born-again Spirit-filled believer can have all 9 Spiritual gifts in their life. Paul did and so can we.

We are to covet the best "gifts" not best gift. It is plural.

[jazzypooh]

You are going on some false information here. Any born-again Spirit-filled believer can have all 9 Spiritual gifts in their life. Paul did and so can we.

We are to covet the best "gifts" not best gift. It is plural.
amen to everything you said.

[jazzypooh]

"I have been witness to some Ministers (they just happen to be Baptist... ) that indeed spoke prophetic things to other Christians... and these things DID come about."

Can you give us an example of one such prophecy? How specific was it? Or were these vague prophecies, where some of the things foretold came to pass? My understanding of the prophets in the OT is that they were all Jewish. To me that says it must have been one of the requirements for being a prophet of God. The other requirement was that your prophecy had to come to pass with 100% accuracy. If it did not, you were considered a false prophet. See Deuteronomy 18:15-22 (ESV):


Deu 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers--it is to him you shall listen--

Deu 18:16 just as you desired of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.'

Deu 18:17 And the LORD said to me, 'They are right in what they have spoken.

Deu 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Deu 18:19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

Deu 18:20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

Deu 18:21 And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?'--

Deu 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.


So did this prophecy of the Baptist minister come to pass with 100% accuracy, or is a little Biblical justice in order?
you think a person must be Jewish to be a prophet of God? maybe all the OT prophets were Jewish because the Jews were the only ones with a covenant with God at that time... maybe, just maybe that's why?

Galatians 3:28 says there is neither Jew nor Greek now that we are under the new covenant, which is extended to both the Jew and the Gentile. it was never God's will to have a covenant with just 1 race of people.

my pastor is a prophetess and she moves in more than just 1 gift of the Spirit. and i know she's called of God. the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit administers gifts as HE sees fit. not as we see fit. and she has spoken prophetic words over my life and those in the congregation. some of those words she's spoken to me have been confirmations of a prophetic word the Lord had already gave to me. sometimes its just a word of wisdom. but all of us have the HOly Spirit, so He lets us know when something or someone is of Him or not. that's why Jesus said His sheep know His voice. its our individual responsibilities to know the voice of GOd so that we dont get led astray. but knowing His voice and making up things that aren't true are 2 different things...

you also said that a word must come to pass in order for that person to be a prophet. yes that is critical, but also we have to cosider that in some cases the fulfillment of prophecy is contigent upon a response from us. and if we dont respond accordingly, then that word may or may not come to pass. some prophetic words are words of warning and can be avoided if we respond the way God would have us to respond. in that case, that word wouldn't come to pass, because the mercy of God triumphed over judgment. so we have to consider that factor as well. we cant receive a prophetic word, sit back and do nothing, and then expect for that word to come to pass in our lives. sometimes God requires a response from us in order for us to receive what has been prophesied. so in that case we cant accuse the person of being a false prophet because we didn't obey God... c'mon now...

[tturt]

We have our standards of what a true and false prophet are and usually one is that what they say must come to pass.

Would you call Isaiah a false prophet? Afterall, it was 800? years before some of his prophecies came true. Jonah - years also.

So for myself I'm very careful about who I call a false prophet.

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings In the name of Jesus;:)

First I would like to Commend and thank all voices and posts in this thread: All posts were respectful in love of spirit for Gods words. And I praise God for all of you and your discernment on Gods words.:clap:

I wanted to add to some more points of scripts for all to pray and discern upon for all edification:

Earlier I post about Jesus saying, the prophets are until John. But also Jesus said; That of sons born unto women; there are none greater than John.( John the baptist). But then says that the least of those in the Kingdom of heaven are greater than he. ( John the Baptist)

Also in correlation I wanted to quote: zechariah 12;10 is speaking about God saying I will pour out... spirit of grace and " Look upon me whom they have pierced" ( Jesus) and continues until 13;1 " In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the Inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for Uncleanness" ( fountain of salvation which is Jesus) verse 2. " Also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the Land." As I interpret this; as all should interpret themselves and read; as Jesus as fountain for cleaning sin. And that also the prophets pass out of the land, or are no more; after Jesus.

One more thing, the spirit of prophecy continues in children of the Kingdom. Which paul teaches, as Spiritual Gifts.

All of zechariah 13. is a great chapter, and all should read.:) Thanks every one for a great thread.

I pray no one takes offense by my words, and interpretations.
God bless C.F. and all who use it.:wave:
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[Dave01]

Greetings In the name of Jesus;:)

First I would like to Commend and thank all voices and posts in this thread: All posts were respectful in love of spirit for Gods words. And I praise God for all of you and your discernment on Gods words.:clap:

I wanted to add to some more points of scripts for all to pray and discern upon for all edification:

Earlier I post about Jesus saying, the prophets are until John. But also Jesus said; That of sons born unto women; there are none greater than John.( John the baptist). But then says that the least of those in the Kingdom of heaven are greater than he. ( John the Baptist)

Also in correlation I wanted to quote: zechariah 12;10 is speaking about God saying I will pour out... spirit of grace and " Look upon me whom they have pierced" ( Jesus) and continues until 13;1 " In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the Inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for Uncleanness" ( fountain of salvation which is Jesus) verse 2. " Also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the Land." As I interpret this; as all should interpret themselves and read; as Jesus as fountain for cleaning sin. And that also the prophets pass out of the land, or are no more; after Jesus.

One more thing, the spirit of prophecy continues in children of the Kingdom. Which paul teaches, as Spiritual Gifts.

All of zechariah 13. is a great chapter, and all should read.:) Thanks every one for a great thread.

I pray no one takes offense by my words, and interpretations.
God bless C.F. and all who use it.:wave:
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It seems you need to read more scripture,..


28 (ASV) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues.


Paul talks about the position again over in Ephesians,..


9 (ASV) (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?

10 (ASV) He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 (ASV) And he gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;


I won't argue with you over it since it is quite obvious.

[jazzypooh]

Greetings In the name of Jesus;:)

First I would like to Commend and thank all voices and posts in this thread: All posts were respectful in love of spirit for Gods words. And I praise God for all of you and your discernment on Gods words.:clap:

I wanted to add to some more points of scripts for all to pray and discern upon for all edification:

Earlier I post about Jesus saying, the prophets are until John. But also Jesus said; That of sons born unto women; there are none greater than John.( John the baptist). But then says that the least of those in the Kingdom of heaven are greater than he. ( John the Baptist)

Also in correlation I wanted to quote: zechariah 12;10 is speaking about God saying I will pour out... spirit of grace and " Look upon me whom they have pierced" ( Jesus) and continues until 13;1 " In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the Inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for Uncleanness" ( fountain of salvation which is Jesus) verse 2. " Also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the Land." As I interpret this; as all should interpret themselves and read; as Jesus as fountain for cleaning sin. And that also the prophets pass out of the land, or are no more; after Jesus.

One more thing, the spirit of prophecy continues in children of the Kingdom. Which paul teaches, as Spiritual Gifts.

All of zechariah 13. is a great chapter, and all should read.:) Thanks every one for a great thread.

I pray no one takes offense by my words, and interpretations.
God bless C.F. and all who use it.:wave:
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Jesus also said that He didnt come to destroy the Law OR THE PROPHETS. that's written in red.

how can you say that there are no more prophets, but we can all have the spirit of prophecy? why focus on one part of Paul's letters and overlook other areas that contradict what you're saying?

yes, all of us as believers can prophesy, but there is also an office of the prophet which one must be called to just like any other office. we cant keep the gift and throw away the office... that's picking and choosing what you want to believe...

[Zecryphon]

you think a person must be Jewish to be a prophet of God? maybe all the OT prophets were Jewish because the Jews were the only ones with a covenant with God at that time... maybe, just maybe that's why?

Galatians 3:28 says there is neither Jew nor Greek now that we are under the new covenant, which is extended to both the Jew and the Gentile. it was never God's will to have a covenant with just 1 race of people.

my pastor is a prophetess and she moves in more than just 1 gift of the Spirit. and i know she's called of God. the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit administers gifts as HE sees fit. not as we see fit. and she has spoken prophetic words over my life and those in the congregation. some of those words she's spoken to me have been confirmations of a prophetic word the Lord had already gave to me. sometimes its just a word of wisdom. but all of us have the HOly Spirit, so He lets us know when something or someone is of Him or not. that's why Jesus said His sheep know His voice. its our individual responsibilities to know the voice of GOd so that we dont get led astray. but knowing His voice and making up things that aren't true are 2 different things...

you also said that a word must come to pass in order for that person to be a prophet. yes that is critical, but also we have to cosider that in some cases the fulfillment of prophecy is contigent upon a response from us. and if we dont respond accordingly, then that word may or may not come to pass. some prophetic words are words of warning and can be avoided if we respond the way God would have us to respond. in that case, that word wouldn't come to pass, because the mercy of God triumphed over judgment. so we have to consider that factor as well. we cant receive a prophetic word, sit back and do nothing, and then expect for that word to come to pass in our lives. sometimes God requires a response from us in order for us to receive what has been prophesied. so in that case we cant accuse the person of being a false prophet because we didn't obey God... c'mon now...
"you think a person must be Jewish to be a prophet of God? maybe all the OT prophets were Jewish because the Jews were the only ones with a covenant with God at that time... maybe, just maybe that's why?"

Maybe. But the example I see in the Bible is that all prophets are Jewish, therefore it is logical to conclude that that is a requirement. Now this next statement is my personal opinion. I really don't see the need for the future predicting prophets. What's the point? God has revealed all He needs to reveal to us, through His written word. True, we don't have the answer to that BIG question of when the "last day" is, but according to the Bible, we're not supposed to know that. So what other questions do we need an answer to that the Bible or counsel with the Holy Spirit can not provide?

"Galatians 3:28 says there is neither Jew nor Greek now that we are under the new covenant, which is extended to both the Jew and the Gentile. it was never God's will to have a covenant with just 1 race of people."

I never said it was. In fact, I don't remember making any comment about any covenant relationship in my post.

"my pastor is a prophetess and she moves in more than just 1 gift of the Spirit. and i know she's called of God."

A female pastor and prophetess to boot? Wow.

"the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit administers gifts as HE sees fit. not as we see fit."

I didn't say it said that the Holy Spirit administered gifts as we see fit. I said in the text it's clear to me that the Holy Spirit gives each person one gift. I don't see anything in the text that suggests multiple giftings.

"and she has spoken prophetic words over my life and those in the congregation. some of those words she's spoken to me have been confirmations of a prophetic word the Lord had already gave to me."

If you had already received this word from the Lord, why did she need to speak it at all? Do you need outside confirmation from a 2nd party to know that what you heard was the voice of God?

"sometimes its just a word of wisdom. but all of us have the HOly Spirit, so He lets us know when something or someone is of Him or not."

What does that voice sound like? I'm not trying to be a wisenheimer here, but often times people confuse their voice and what they desire with what the Holy Spirit is telling them.

"that's why Jesus said His sheep know His voice. its our individual responsibilities to know the voice of GOd so that we dont get led astray. but knowing His voice and making up things that aren't true are 2 different things..."

I agree.

"you also said that a word must come to pass in order for that person to be a prophet. yes that is critical, but also we have to cosider that in some cases the fulfillment of prophecy is contigent upon a response from us. and if we dont respond accordingly, then that word may or may not come to pass."

See that's the funny things about prophecies from God they tend to be rather specific. The prophecies most people speak concern future events. Like Benny Hinn's most famous failed prophecy ever. The one where he said the homosexual population would be destroyed by a great fire in the mid-90's. LOL With prophets like that, you can surely, understand why I'm skeptical that the gift is still given today.

"some prophetic words are words of warning and can be avoided if we respond the way God would have us to respond."

How do you know which way that is?

"in that case, that word wouldn't come to pass, because the mercy of God triumphed over judgment."

Well the only way I could see that working is if it were like the city of Ninevah in Jonah, the people repented so God witheld His wrath. So the prophecy must have been along the line of, turn from your wicked ways or be destroyed. That's pretty specific, and I would consider a warning such as that to be from God. But in today's society it would have to be even more specific because our wicked ways could mean anything from our high divorce rate to our legalized abortions. You just don't see prophecies like that being spoken or fulfilled in today's day and age.

"so we have to consider that factor as well. we cant receive a prophetic word, sit back and do nothing,"

No, you can't, but I'm not convinced from the examples I've read thus far in the thread that anyone has truly received a prophetic word.

"and then expect for that word to come to pass in our lives. sometimes God requires a response from us in order for us to receive what has been prophesied. so in that case we cant accuse the person of being a false prophet because we didn't obey God... c'mon now..."

Nothing here convinces me that there are still valid prophets as there were in the Biblical times.

[Zecryphon]

GOD's actions are not based on your opinions and what you think. What HE does is what HE does, and if HE wants to do miracles every single hour, HE will.

Any person serving in a position listed in the 5-fold ministry will have a strong anointing upon them for certain gifts and authority. If they don't, get away from them fast.

GOD does not give HIS approval upon a person until they are full-grown as a son or daughter of Christ. HE will not anoint children.
"GOD's actions are not based on your opinions and what you think. What HE does is what HE does, and if HE wants to do miracles every single hour, HE will."

And if you need to believe that you're seeing a miracle every single hour, you will see a miracle every single hour. When people live in this mindset, the most common events suddenly become miracles, like finding your lost car keys to getting green lights all the way to work. Normal every day occurences that some people need to believe are miracles and blessings from God. Nothing in that definition of the word miracle that I provided is my opinion, Dave. Also, the two examples I've given here do not qualify as miracles, according to the definition I have provided previously, because those events have rational explanations in the natural world.

"Any person serving in a position listed in the 5-fold ministry will have a strong anointing upon them for certain gifts and authority. If they don't, get away from them fast."

Thanks for your two cents.

"GOD does not give HIS approval upon a person until they are full-grown as a son or daughter of Christ. HE will not anoint children."

That sounds like a personal opinion. Do you have some scripture to back up this claim? Also, when did I mention kids? Are you off on some tangent now or do you think you're still talking about my post? Because I have no idea what you're talking about now or why you're typing this in response to my post.

[Zecryphon]

You are going on some false information here. Any born-again Spirit-filled believer can have all 9 Spiritual gifts in their life. Paul did and so can we.

We are to covet the best "gifts" not best gift. It is plural.
"You are going on some false information here."

I'm going on what the Bible clearly states.

"Any born-again Spirit-filled believer can have all 9 Spiritual gifts in their life. Paul did and so can we."

Scriptures please.

"We are to covet the best "gifts" not best gift. It is plural."

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

I don't see anything here that speaks of plurality. I see singular gifting. One gift per person.

I do see in 1 Corinthians 12:31 this:

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Now the KJV renders the words "earnestly desire" as "covet". I'm wondering if that's a mistake in the translation because the tenth commandment says thou shalt not covet. So is Paul actually telling people to violate a commandment by coveting the higher gifts above the lesser gifts? Doesn't make sense to me. Plus what is the more excellent way that Paul speaks of that is better than any gift?

[zeke37]

you think a person must be Jewish to be a prophet of God? maybe all the OT prophets were Jewish because the Jews were the only ones with a covenant with God at that time... maybe, just maybe that's why?

Zecryphon said...
Maybe. But the example I see in the Bible is that all prophets are Jewish, therefore it is logical to conclude that that is a requirement. Now this next statement is my personal opinion.

Hi there.

The Old Testament prophets were not all Jewish....

Jews are from Judah, 1 of 12 tribes....people always seem to forget this fact.

There were more than one Covenant, Abraham's seed, Isaac's seed, Jacob/Israel's seed, Joseph's seed.....

The scattered tribes are Israel in prophecy. Who are the scattered tribes today...the so called lost tribes....not the Jews but the other stick...

Zecryphon said...
I really don't see the need for the future predicting prophets. What's the point? God has revealed all He needs to reveal to us, through His written word.

I agree

Zecryphon said...
True, we don't have the answer to that BIG question of when the "last day" is, but according to the Bible, we're not supposed to know that.

But we are to know the season...and the signs....the fake Jesus / son of Perdition / Satan, MUST come first....

Zecryphon said...
So what other questions do we need an answer to that the Bible or counsel with the Holy Spirit can not provide?

Do you guys and gals believe in evil spirit possession....?

Since Christ cast some of them out, and they existed then, they may also be around today, even in the church .... unbeknownst to those in the church ...

That is why it is important to realize that there are no more prophets as they were in the Old Testament. Today's prophets, are teachers of the Word of God, speaking the Prophecies that we are already aware of....for Christ told us all things, because He is the Word of God....we need no other prophet....we've been taught by the best...

in His service
c

[Dave01]

Scriptures please.


Word of wisdom - 2 Peter 3:15
Word of knowledge - Acts 13:10,11
Discerning of spirits - Acts 16:16-18
Gift of tongues - 1Cor 14:18
Interpretation of tongues - 1Cor 14:13
Prophecy - 1Cor 14:6
Gift of faith - 1Cor 13:2
Gifts of healings - Acts 14:8-10
Gift of working of miracles - Acts 20:9-12




I don't see anything here that speaks of plurality. I see singular gifting. One gift per person.



13 (ASV) Wherefore let him that speaketh in a tongue pray that he may interpret.


You can't get any clearer than that.

[tturt]

In reference to the prophets were all Jewish so therefore there can't be prophets today - as were the original disciples Jews. But if we use that as a measuring stick, then non-Jewish folks can't be disciples of Christ Jesus.

That's the reason we have to go by what The Word says.

[Dave01]

In reference to the prophets were all Jewish - as were the original disciples Jewish. If we use that as a measuring stick, then non-Jewish folks can't be disciples of Christ Jesus.

Actually, Enoch was not Jewish, and he was a prophet.

[bluemarkus]

agabus doesnt sound too jewish to me either

[Zecryphon]

"Word of wisdom - 2 Peter 3:15
Word of knowledge - Acts 13:10,11
Discerning of spirits - Acts 16:16-18
Gift of tongues - 1Cor 14:18
Interpretation of tongues - 1Cor 14:13
Prophecy - 1Cor 14:6
Gift of faith - 1Cor 13:2
Gifts of healings - Acts 14:8-10
Gift of working of miracles - Acts 20:9-12"

Thank you for these. This is very interesting and helpful. Now, one more question. Without a doubt Paul was very blessed indeed, but are there any scriptures that say we too can have all 9 gifts, and that there is a need for us to have all nine to this day? The gifts were helpful in Paul's time to help him srpead the gospel of Jesus Christ but I don't see why people would need some gifts today, when we have the Bible.

Quote:
I don't see anything here that speaks of plurality. I see singular gifting. One gift per person.

Quote:
13 (ASV) Wherefore let him that speaketh in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
"You can't get any clearer than that."

It would be helpful to me if you would be so kind as to provide the book and chapter number along with the verse, when quoting the Bible, so I may know which verse you are quoting easily. Here's how I interpret that passage. We may speak in tongues if we are indeed gifted with that ability, but that verse also says we have to pray for an interpretation of what we speak. That's the key for me. Obvioulsy if we need to pray for an interpretation we do not have the gift of interpretation ourselves, but rather the one gift we have been blessed with is the gift of tongues. So we need to pray, and then God interprets what we have spoken and reveals the meaning of the message to us and we then speak that message to the people. I mean if we had two gifts, the gifts of tongues and interpretation, we wouldn't need to pray to God for an interpretation, would we?

[Zecryphon]

In reference to the prophets were all Jewish so therefore there can't be prophets today - as were the original disciples Jews. But if we use that as a measuring stick, then non-Jewish folks can't be disciples of Christ Jesus.

That's the reason we have to go by what The Word says.
"In reference to the prophets were all Jewish so therefore there can't be prophets today - as were the original disciples Jews. But if we use that as a measuring stick, then non-Jewish folks can't be disciples of Christ Jesus."

That's not the only measuring stick for determining a prophet of God though. The given prophecies had to come to pass with 100% accuracy too. Usually a prophet would be tested to determine if he were from God or not. So the prophet would predict something that could be fulfillled with in a few days. If what was predicted came to pass with 100% accuracy, the people knew the prophet was of God. Then the prophet would get down to business, so to speak. However, if the prediction did not come to pass, the prophet was then stoned to death. So someone claiming to be a prophet was a very serious business.

I think we'd see a lot less prophets today if we still stoned people to death for failed prophecies. My other question still hasn't been answered though, by anyone. What do we need future predicting prophets for today? God has revealed in His written word all that we need to know regarding the future.

[Zecryphon]

[COLOR=darkgreen]Hi there.

The Old Testament prophets were not all Jewish....

Jews are from Judah, 1 of 12 tribes....people always seem to forget this fact.

There were more than one Covenant, Abraham's seed, Isaac's seed, Jacob/Israel's seed, Joseph's seed.....

The scattered tribes are Israel in prophecy. Who are the scattered tribes today...the so called lost tribes....not the Jews but the other stick...



I agree



But we are to know the season...and the signs....the fake Jesus / son of Perdition / Satan, MUST come first....



Do you guys and gals believe in evil spirit possession....?

Since Christ cast some of them out, and they existed then, they may also be around today, even in the church .... unbeknownst to those in the church ...

That is why it is important to realize that there are no more prophets as they were in the Old Testament. Today's prophets, are teachers of the Word of God, speaking the Prophecies that we are already aware of....for Christ told us all things, because He is the Word of God....we need no other prophet....we've been taught by the best...

in His service
c
"But we are to know the season...and the signs....the fake Jesus / son of Perdition / Satan, MUST come first...."

But it seems we never do know the season or the signs. Every time someone has made a prophecy concerning the last days or any event involving God, they are always wrong.



Quote:
Zecryphon said...
Quote:
So what other questions do we need an answer to that the Bible or counsel with the Holy Spirit can not provide?


"Do you guys and gals believe in evil spirit possession....?"

I believe an evil spirit can possess a person not soundly saved. The Bible says where Christ is present, evil can not dwell.


"Since Christ cast some of them out, and they existed then, they may also be around today, even in the church .... unbeknownst to those in the church ..."

I agree, because an evil spirit can exist in a false convert just as easily as they can in someone who is a non-believer.

"That is why it is important to realize that there are no more prophets as they were in the Old Testament. Today's prophets, are teachers of the Word of God, speaking the Prophecies that we are already aware of....for Christ told us all things, because He is the Word of God....we need no other prophet....we've been taught by the best..."

Yep.

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the Name of Jesus: :hug:

I agree with the OP. oops that was Me. :)

Now some seem to think Jesus spoke wrong, when he said the Prophets are unto John. Which is the old testament prophet styled ones. Which I also added later the zech 13;2; saying " I will cause the Prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land."

And asked all to read and interpret all of zechariah 13;. a great chapter. But some Need not instruction of word, and smarter than Gods words.

One even claimed I should read more. Which we all should do of Gods words. Especially those who didn't read Zech 13; which they dismiss without reading. Now let me continue in quote of zech 13. What happens after Jesus.

Zech 13;3." And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him. Thou shalt not live: for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth."

rebellious people "Which say to the seers, See not: and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophecy deceits." Isaiah 30;10

Prophets of old testament are Gone. Prophets do exist, but they are children of the kingdom with prophetic Gifts. but the title prophet of old.; is replace with children of Kingdom; with Spirit of Prophecy blessing. Like paul. And all can be blessed with spirit of Prophecy, which we should all covet.

I praise God for all those who love the things of God, and wrestle with the spirit, to find Gods truth.:thumbsup:

I pray no one takes offense by my words, but usually some do. God bless C.F. and all who use it. :wave:
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[Dave01]

Thank you for these. This is very interesting and helpful. Now, one more question. Without a doubt Paul was very blessed indeed, but are there any scriptures that say we too can have all 9 gifts, and that there is a need for us to have all nine to this day? The gifts were helpful in Paul's time to help him srpead the gospel of Jesus Christ but I don't see why people would need some gifts today, when we have the Bible.

Your question is worded wrong, it should be, is there anything that says we can't have all 9 of the gifts?

Paul was not of the original twelve Apostles, and if he could have all 9 of them, so can we, GOD is no respector of persons. Same way with Jesus. He operated in all of them with the exception of tongues and interpretation, and He specifically said,..


12 ¶ (ASV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father.


No one is going to do "His works" without the gifts of The Spirit, period. That is why Jesus gave them to us, He knew we were going to need them.

It would be helpful to me if you would be so kind as to provide the book and chapter number along with the verse, when quoting the Bible, so I may know which verse you are quoting easily. Here's how I interpret that passage. We may speak in tongues if we are indeed gifted with that ability, but that verse also says we have to pray for an interpretation of what we speak. That's the key for me. Obvioulsy if we need to pray for an interpretation we do not have the gift of interpretation ourselves, but rather the one gift we have been blessed with is the gift of tongues. So we need to pray, and then God interprets what we have spoken and reveals the meaning of the message to us and we then speak that message to the people. I mean if we had two gifts, the gifts of tongues and interpretation, we wouldn't need to pray to God for an interpretation, would we?

The quote is from 1 Cor 14:13.

Your assessment is incorrect in this instance. The gift of interpretation is a separate gift from the gift of tongues. They are distinctively different. We see Paul affirming this a couple passages later,..


15 ¶ (ASV) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.


Paul is talking about their use in the assembly. A person that has a ministry of tongues, where they are prompted by The Holy Spirit to speak a tongues message in the assembly for edification, needs to have the gift of interpretation also so that they can check the message being interpreted or interpret it themselves if no one else does.

[Zecryphon]

[/COLOR]

Your question is worded wrong, it should be, is there anything that says we can't have all 9 of the gifts?

Paul was not of the original twelve Apostles, and if he could have all 9 of them, so can we, GOD is no respector of persons. Same way with Jesus. He operated in all of them with the exception of tongues and interpretation, and He specifically said,..



No one is going to do "His works" without the gifts of The Spirit, period. That is why Jesus gave them to us, He knew we were going to need them.

[COLOR=blue]

The quote is from 1 Cor 14:13.

Your assessment is incorrect in this instance. The gift of interpretation is a separate gift from the gift of tongues. They are distinctively different. We see Paul affirming this a couple passages later,..



Paul is talking about their use in the assembly. A person that has a ministry of tongues, where they are prompted by The Holy Spirit to speak a tongues message in the assembly for edification, needs to have the gift of interpretation also so that they can check the message being interpreted or interpret it themselves if no one else does.
"Your assessment is incorrect in this instance. The gift of interpretation is a separate gift from the gift of tongues. They are distinctively different. We see Paul affirming this a couple passages later,.."

Really? Because what I was saying in my assessment was that if a person speaks in tongues, that person can not also have the gift of interpretation, because they are, as you've pointed out, two separate gifts. That's why the person who has just spoken in tongues must pray for an interpretation of what he or she has just spoken.

[Jerrell]

I asked the same Question myself (except it was about Apostles and Prophets), here is the answer I got:


Answer: The movement to restore the offices of apostle and prophet bases the claim that apostles and prophets are to be a part of the church on Ephesians 4:11-12. These verses say, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ."

During the first century of the church, there was an office of apostle and there was a spiritual gift of apostle. The office or position of apostle was held by the 12 disciples of Jesus plus Matthias, who took Judas’ place, and Paul. Those who held the office or position of apostle were chosen specifically by Christ (Mark 3:16-19). The replacement for Judas is seen in Acts 1:20-26. Note in this passage that Judas' position was called an office. It should also be noted that Paul was chosen by Christ (1 Corinthians 15:8-9; Galatians 1:1; 2:6-9). These men were given the task of setting up of the foundation of the church. It should be understood that it was for the universal church that these men were a part of the foundation (Ephesians 2:20). The foundation of the church (universal church) was laid in the first century. This is why the office of apostle is no longer functioning.

There was also a spiritual gift of apostle (This is not to be confused with the office—they are separate). Among those who had the spiritual gift were James (1 Corinthians 15:7; Galatians 1:19), Barnabas (Acts 14:4, 14; 1 Corinthians 9:6), Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), possibly Silas and Timothy (1 Thessalonians 1:1; 2:7), and Apollos (1 Corinthians 4:6, 9). This latter group had the gift of apostleship but not the apostolic "office" conferred upon the Twelve and Paul. Those who had the gift of apostle, then, were those who carried the gospel message with God’s authority. The word "apostle" means "one sent as an authoritative delegate." This was true of those who held the office of Apostle (like Paul) and those who had the spiritual gift (like Apollos). Though there are men like this today, men who are sent by God to spread the gospel, it is best NOT to refer to them as apostles because of the confusion this causes since many are not aware of the two different uses of the term apostle.

The gift of prophet was a temporary gift given by the Christ for the laying of the foundation of the universal church. They also were foundational to the universal church (Ephesians 2:20). The prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord for the believers of the first century. These believers did not have the advantage we have of having a complete Bible. The last book of the New Testament (Revelation) was not completed until late in the first century. So the Lord provided gifted men called prophets who proclaimed messages from God to the people until the canon of Scripture was complete.

It should be noted that the current teaching of the restoration of prophet and the office of apostle is far from what Scripture describes of the men who held the gift of prophet and the office of apostle. Those who teach the restoration of the office teach that the men who claim to be apostles and prophets should never be spoken against, should never be questioned, because the person who speaks against them is speaking against God. Yet, the Apostle Paul commended the people of Berea for checking what he said against the Word of God to make sure he spoke the truth (Acts 17:10-11). The Apostle Paul also stated to those in Galatia that if anyone, including himself, should teach another Gospel, that person should be "accursed" (Galatians 1:8-9). In everything, Paul kept pointing people to the Bible as the final authority. The men who claim to be apostles and prophets today make themselves the final authority, something Paul and the Twelve never did.

It should also be noted that Scripture refers to these men in the past tense. In 2 Peter 3:2 and also in Jude 3-4, it states that the people should not stray from the message the apostles gave (past tense). In Hebrews 2:3-4, it also speaks in the past tense of the those who performed (in the past) signs, wonders, miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

______________________________________________

[Dave01]

"Your assessment is incorrect in this instance. The gift of interpretation is a separate gift from the gift of tongues. They are distinctively different. We see Paul affirming this a couple passages later,.."

Really? Because what I was saying in my assessment was that if a person speaks in tongues, that person can not also have the gift of interpretation, because they are, as you've pointed out, two separate gifts. That's why the person who has just spoken in tongues must pray for an interpretation of what he or she has just spoken.

I stand by what scripture says about it. They are two separate gifts that a person can have, and there is nothing in scripture that says no one can't. Paul had all 9 of the gifts, so anyone in the church can have them also, they did not die out with the apostles.

[Zecryphon]

I stand by what scripture says about it. They are two separate gifts that a person can have, and there is nothing in scripture that says no one can't. Paul had all 9 of the gifts, so anyone in the church can have them also, they did not die out with the apostles.
Where does scripture say that a person can have all nine and that all nine are necessary today? That's what I'm looking for. If you want to say, that since Paul had all nine, we can have them too, I'd like to see some scriptural support for that claim. I don't think all gifts are still given today as I don't think all of them are necessary, particularly the gift of future predictions by prophets. Perhaps I need to take this to the Holy Spirit, no one here seems to be able to give me what I seek.

[Lpe04]

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

What are Prophets: and do they exist any more?

Its Kind of a trick question. As a lot of Gods words have overlapping truths and seemingly contradictions in truths.

But The " Prophets are until John" which means that "prophets are passed out of the land"zechariah 13;2. But in truth the Prophets are not Gone, they Just have a new title. And that Title is Christians, with "Spiritofprophecy " As paul taught.

And also as Paul taught, that the word of God is now perfect; and christians of Spiritofprophecy; only reveal and interpret in spirit the Prophecies already Given.

I ask not one take offense by my words, and interpretations.

God bless C.F. and all who use it.:)
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A prophet is one who speaks for God. Prophets still exist. I have met a very powerful one who prophesized over me and others and knew things about my life. A prophet is one of the gift ministries, just as an apostle is. God bless!

Jesus' Daily Inspirationals (http://Lanceeh.blogspot.com)

[Lpe04]

Also, a prophet has changed since the Old Testament, I am not sure how, but if you read about a guy named Todd Dekker (spelling?) I have heard powerful stuff about him, Elijah type of stuff.

God bless.

Jesus' Daily Inspirationals (http://Lanceeh.blogspot.com)

[Dave01]

Where does scripture say that a person can have all nine and that all nine are necessary today? That's what I'm looking for. If you want to say, that since Paul had all nine, we can have them too, I'd like to see some scriptural support for that claim. I don't think all gifts are still given today as I don't think all of them are necessary, particularly the gift of future predictions by prophets. Perhaps I need to take this to the Holy Spirit, no one here seems to be able to give me what I seek.

Really, you are suppose to be taking these things to GOD and letting The Holy Spirit lead and reveal things to you in your spirit. I may not be able to reach you in what I know, and that just happens a lot of times. Each of us is given a measure of faith, and we all suppose to prefect it and produce fruit, so take these things to GOD with a open heart allowing HIM to reveal what you need, you will be happily surprised.

Maybe you will be one that GOD can trust to use in the power gifts, it all depends on your desire within your heart and the patience you have to allow HIM to teach you in these things.

[tturt]

Amo 3:7 "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

An interpretation to tongues can be prayed for but isn't necessary when tongues are spoken between the believer and the Lord because 1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;..."

[Dave01]

Also, a prophet has changed since the Old Testament, I am not sure how, but if you read about a guy named Todd Dekker (spelling?) I have heard powerful stuff about him, Elijah type of stuff.

God bless.

Jesus' Daily Inspirationals (http://Lanceeh.blogspot.com)

The prophet ministry changed due to the work Jesus did on the cross. All of us are given a ministry of reconciliation, not one of condemnation, so the NT prophet is different than the OT model.

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the Name of Jesus: :hug:

I praise God for all those who seek the wisdom and knowledge of God.:)

Matt 11;13 " For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

Unless you discern this quote accurately, you will not be able to speak in spiritual truths on this thread. But all are welcome to speak.

Jesus also said that the least in the kingdom of heaven is Greater than he. (John). and that Elijah is John the baptist, ( reincarnated).

you and those who claim Jesus are of the Kingdom, and greater than John the baptist.:thumbsup:

Now if a prophet is less than, the least of the Kingdom of heaven. then the title is inaccurate; but the poetic license of scriptures of Old, Can term prophets, when they are really disciples of Christ; with blessings of the spirit.

And you should read zechariah 13. which all should read. I could quote it: but No one likes long posts. Short and sweet to the point with script #.

I pray no one takes offense by my words. And I thank all members and guests for their input and interests. God bless and keep you safe, and God bless C.F. and all who use it. :wave:
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[Oscarr]

"I have been witness to some Ministers (they just happen to be Baptist... ) that indeed spoke prophetic things to other Christians... and these things DID come about."

Can you give us an example of one such prophecy? How specific was it? Or were these vague prophecies, where some of the things foretold came to pass? My understanding of the prophets in the OT is that they were all Jewish. To me that says it must have been one of the requirements for being a prophet of God. The other requirement was that your prophecy had to come to pass with 100% accuracy. If it did not, you were considered a false prophet. See Deuteronomy 18:15-22 (ESV):


Deu 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers--it is to him you shall listen--

Deu 18:16 just as you desired of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.'

Deu 18:17 And the LORD said to me, 'They are right in what they have spoken.

Deu 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Deu 18:19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

Deu 18:20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'

Deu 18:21 And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?'--

Deu 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.


So did this prophecy of the Baptist minister come to pass with 100% accuracy, or is a little Biblical justice in order?

These scriptures speak about Old Testament prophets, not New Testament ones. New Testament prophecy is totally different in nature and does not carry the same 'authority'. Old Testament prophecy was for guidance and supplemented the written law. Jesus talked about the Law and the Prophets. This was Old Testament prophecy. It was written for spiritually dead people who needed Law and prophetic guidance through the mouths of annointed men of God.

New Testament prophecies are quite different: They are love letters from the Father to new creation believers who are made alive in the spirit. Therefore to quote Deuteronomy as a set of principles for New Testament prophecy is a misquote of the Scripture.

[Jerrell]

These scriptures speak about Old Testament prophets, not New Testament ones. New Testament prophecy is totally different in nature and does not carry the same 'authority'. Old Testament prophecy was for guidance and supplemented the written law. Jesus talked about the Law and the Prophets. This was Old Testament prophecy. It was written for spiritually dead people who needed Law and prophetic guidance through the mouths of annointed men of God.

New Testament prophecies are quite different: They are love letters from the Father to new creation believers who are made alive in the spirit. Therefore to quote Deuteronomy as a set of principles for New Testament prophecy is a misquote of the Scripture.

Moses was foretelling of Jesus.

[Dave01]

These scriptures speak about Old Testament prophets, not New Testament ones. New Testament prophecy is totally different in nature and does not carry the same 'authority'. Old Testament prophecy was for guidance and supplemented the written law. Jesus talked about the Law and the Prophets. This was Old Testament prophecy. It was written for spiritually dead people who needed Law and prophetic guidance through the mouths of annointed men of God.

New Testament prophecies are quite different: They are love letters from the Father to new creation believers who are made alive in the spirit. Therefore to quote Deuteronomy as a set of principles for New Testament prophecy is a misquote of the Scripture.



This is correct. The guidelines for a NT prophet are contained within the NT, not the OT. The OT model died out with John the baptist.

Jesus walked in every ministry we have listed in our NT, and that included prophet, and he specifically says,...


12 ¶ (ASV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father.


In essence, people are calling Jesus a liar here. GOD cannot stop certain things or offer them to just twelve people and not the rest, GOD is no respector of persons,..and HE certainly is not going to make HIS son out to be a liar.

[tturt]

Again - one interpretation of scripture.

[Dave01]

Again - one interpretation of scripture.

Do you see this verse interpreted some other way than what it means,..


12 ¶ (ASV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father.

[bluemarkus]

prophets are here on the forum :)

[tturt]

The interpretation of scripture I was referring to was quoting the OT for today.

I know what the scriptures say in v12 and don't see where that pertains to prophets only.

Earlier it was posted that prophets would operate in several spiritual gifts and no allowances were made for a learning period such as the school of prophets who were with Elijah. That period of time is allowed for every other spiritual gift by some except for prophets. But it is necessary. They need a period of time (which will vary per person) so they can reach a level of understanding.

For example, a friend was given a prophetic word that he would become a pastor and he said NO. What happened? The beginning prophet saw my friend speaking to a congregation and interpreted that to mean pastor while my friend is beginning to realize an evangelist call.

[Dave01]

The interpretation of scripture I was referring to was quoting the OT.

I know what the scriptures say in v12 and don't see where that pertains to prophets only.

Earlier it was said that prophets would operate in several spiritual gifts and no allowances were made for a learning period such as the school of prophets who were with Elijah. That period of time is allowed for every other spiritual gift by some except for prophets. But it is necessary. They need a period of time (which will vary per person) so they can reach a level of understanding.


This is exactly true and I agree wholeheartedly with you. The scripture wasn't just for prophets, but they are included as well as any ministry listed in scripture

There are some so eager to get out into the fields that they do not wait on GOD enough to receive all that HE wishes to give them for the work. Besides, without a specific anointing for the work, it will be in vain.

Gifts also take time to mature as you mentioned. I just had the gift of interpretation become active in my life recently from me praying for it, and now it will take some time to mature that gift to work as good as the others.

[tturt]

We agree on this -

That period of time may include a realization that they have the gift and an accepting of the it.

When someone realizes that they have the gift, it is helpful if they will read such books as Jim Goll's Seer which a Biblically based book that explains the numerous types of prophetic communication b/c God uses so many different ways.

[Deba]

So the office of prophet is to equip and edify Christians or perhaps non-Christians who come to church?

[Spiritofprophecy]

greetings in the name of Jesus: :hug:

I asked people to read zechariah 13. But I shall quote some parts. zech 13;1 " fountain opened ... for sin and uncleanness." ( Jesus salvation). zech 13;2. " I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of he land. 13. And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision."

Its an interesting chapter about the end of prophets.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all in C.F. and who use it. :wave:
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[Dave01]

.

[zeke37]

greetings in the name of Jesus: :hug:

I asked people to read zechariah 13. But I shall quote some parts. zech 13;1 " fountain opened ... for sin and uncleanness." ( Jesus salvation). zech 13;2. " I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of he land. 13. And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision."

Its an interesting chapter about the end of prophets.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless all in C.F. and who use it. :wave:
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Certainly did not offend me friend....

And that shall be...but not prophets as in the Old Testament prophets...a prophet can also be a teacher of God's Word...and there are bad teachers and good teachers.

So, since Jesus said that I have foretold you all things...and He did by the prophets and the Word....we do not need any prophets, that claim revelation from God, about future events ....especially if they are contrary to the Word of God.

I don't know folks....who ya gonna believe???

a man or woman who CLAIMS to be a supernatural preacher......

....or.....

Jesus, who said that He told us ALL things...through His prophets who told us of the end days, and how there would be a famine in the land...a famine for hearing the Word of God, properly divided...not for food, but for His Truth...

and those that teach contrary, especially in these end days, this last generation....they shall indeed be taken out....for the fake one / the instead of Jesus / the son of Perdition is coming soon...and he must come first....


in His service
c

[tturt]

Yes, prophets speak to non-believers and believers today – just like in Biblical times.

earlier post said all the prophets were Jewish – I know they weren’t all Jewish.

Stoning for false prophecies – Some of Isaiah’s prophecies didn’t happen for 800? years.

Someone posted: “Every time someone has made a prophecy concerning the last days or any event involving God, they are always wrong.” Not everyone's experience.

As far as us needing prophets today – we need prophetic words just like people from the past. Afterall they had the law and had prophets.

Zech 13:2 – does say prophets will cease yes, they will (not have) because this chapter is about the end of time – the very, very end. There will be no need for them b/c we’re be with the Father.

Heb 2:2-4 nor Eph 2 indicates that they ceased either (have not ceased).

Someone posted a prophet won’t speak in church. I Cor 14:4. “… but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.” Of course, if they’re received something about someone that’s corrective and they are to talk with that person – then yes correction should be done discreetly – one to one such as II Samuel 12 Nathan to David.

It isn’t necessary to pray for an interpretation of tongues as shown in I Cor 14:2 and 4
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” “Also, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;…”

Yes, believers can operate in more than one spiritual gift. I Cor 14 says desire spiritual “gifts.”

The Holy Spirit decides (I Cor 12).

[Deba]

Men and women are still called, prepared, equipped and sent out by God as His prophets. Has God stopped wanting to communicate with his beloved people? Both those who know Him and those who don't yet.

There are probably more prophets among us - prophets of God - true prophets - than we realize. In the environment of the church today - these people generally will not announce their calling and there is no need to do so anyway. A prophet works for God. God is sovernign. The prophet has been disciplined in that fact before being sent - regardless of the call. Out of the overflow of his heart the prophet will speak.

Prophets I know tend to be like scripture, take them out of the context which God has placed them and they can (and most likely will) be misunderstood. But to watch them work where they have been placed is amazing testimony that HE IS.

[Dave01]

This is one of the most misunderstood and abused offices in the 5 fold ministries.

First off,...anyone that is Spirit-filled and received the gifts of The Holy Spirit can have the gift of prophecy,...anyone. The gift of prophecy will always be "Edification and Exhortation and comfort." It will always be those three things together in each message to the congregation, everytime.

Secondly,...Anyone can have the gift of the word of knowledge operating in their spiritual walk, but that does not make them a prophet. That gift is a requirement for a prophet though, because it is the revelation gift that is used in conjunction with prophecy at times. This sort of forthtelling type prophecy would be personal, not corporate, but just someone operating in the word of knowledge does not make them a prophet.

Thirdly,...A true prophet will have the power gifts operating in their life. There are three, the gift of faith, the working of miracles, and the gifts of healings. If there are not at least one of these three power gifts operating on a regular basis in the person's life (most likely all three will be), then their claim to fame as a prophet is null and void. It matters not how great prophetically they operate in the word of knowledge, the actual office of a prophet is very exact and always powerful, and has too many examples in the OT and NT for people to say differently.

If people would take this guideline and start using it, we would not see so many false claims in church's and abroad. If a person doesn't have revelation knowledge flowing, and does not have the power gifts operating in their life, they are not a prophet, period.

I have to correct myself in an area here. I picked up Lester Sumrall's book on the gifts and ministeries of The Holy Spirit, and I have to agree with him on his definition of the word of wisdom.

Anyone can prophecy with the gift of prophecy, Spirit-filled folks are aware of this, but when someone steps into foretelling the future, they are no longer prophesying but speaking the word of wisdom. Although people may call it prophecy, it isn't prophecy since prophecy is defined in the NT as "Edification and Exhoration and Comfort." Prophecy is an inspiration gift, word of wisdom is a revelation gift.

This gift can have a few different forms such as dreams and visions that give the person insight to future events particular to them or others, but can also be a spoken form, and when it is, it will be declaring things to come and futuristic events, hence it is GOD's wisdom being shown.

This particular gift should be evident in a prophet's life along with the power gifts. A prophet's credentials come strickly from GOD, and GOD will verify a prophet of HIS by a show of power.

[Spiritofprophecy]

Yes, prophets speak to non-believers and believers today – just like in Biblical times.

earlier post said all the prophets were Jewish – I know they weren’t all Jewish.

Stoning for false prophecies – Some of Isaiah’s prophecies didn’t happen for 800? years.

Someone posted: “Every time someone has made a prophecy concerning the last days or any event involving God, they are always wrong.” Not everyone's experience.

As far as us needing prophets today – we need prophetic words just like people from the past. Afterall they had the law and had prophets.

Zech 13:2 – does say prophets will cease yes, they will (not have) because this chapter is about the end of time – the very, very end. There will be no need for them b/c we’re be with the Father.

Heb 2:2-4 nor Eph 2 indicates that they ceased either (have not ceased).

Someone posted a prophet won’t speak in church. I Cor 14:4. “… but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.” Of course, if they’re received something about someone that’s corrective and they are to talk with that person – then yes correction should be done discreetly – one to one such as II Samuel 12 Nathan to David.

It isn’t necessary to pray for an interpretation of tongues as shown in I Cor 14:2 and 4
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” “Also, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;…”

Yes, believers can operate in more than one spiritual gift. I Cor 14 says desire spiritual “gifts.”

The Holy Spirit decides (I Cor 12).
Greetings in the Name of Jesus:

Now the definitive verse on Prophets is Matt 11;13. Which as all definitive verses. begins with words of Jesus. Jesus says" For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.". Thats pretty definitive. yet we are confirmed by two or more. so Add Luke 16;16. " The law and the prophets were until John."

Now on zech 13;2. is defined by 13;1. which is about the day the Fountain for sin and uncleanness is opened. One can argue Jesus is not a fountain for sin: but that is not me. And in "that Day" it says " I will cause the prophets to pass out of the land.

Now it goes on to say in zech 13 that their mother and father can kill any who prophesy. Thats not today. or in Kingdom to come. Thats about the Cross, where fountain for sins is opened. And opened in that day, lest you claim Jesus didn't on that day take away sins.

the Term prophets exists today, poetically and in reference unto spiritual wisdom. but the Greatest of Prophets is less than the least of the Kingdom of God. matt 13;14

And please any who post with words of God; As to respect and honor unto others, should always give scriptural # where it is written or related unto. It is disrespectful not to give # scripts to aid the least of flock to follow into the discourse of thread. ty

I thank all posters and interest in this thread in the spirit of finding Gods truths of these things. Which the word is the defining Judge and truth.

I pray my words do not offend or anger any. God bless C.F. and all who us it.

[tturt]

Matt 11:15 Yes, John the Baptist was the last OT prophet.

dave01, I read Leslie Summerall's book several years ago. Wish he had given more information.

[Dave01]

Matt 11:15 Yes, John the Baptist was the last OT prophet.

dave01, I read Leslie Summerall's book several years ago. Wish he had given more information.

If you can, pick up Howard Carter's book "Questions and Answers on Spiritual Gifts." Lester traveled with Mister Carter quite a few years and most of Lesters material comes from Carter. The book by Carter is a print from a question and answer session he was in about the gifts. You would be amazed on the amount of material that is in that book and how Lesters book helps clarify areas.

Get it if you can.

[jazzypooh]

I have to correct myself in an area here. I picked up Lester Sumrall's book on the gifts and ministeries of The Holy Spirit, and I have to agree with him on his definition of the word of wisdom.

Anyone can prophecy with the gift of prophecy, Spirit-filled folks are aware of this, but when someone steps into foretelling the future, they are no longer prophesying but speaking the word of wisdom. Although people may call it prophecy, it isn't prophecy since prophecy is defined in the NT as "Edification and Exhoration and Comfort." Prophecy is an inspiration gift, word of wisdom is a revelation gift.

This gift can have a few different forms such as dreams and visions that give the person insight to future events particular to them or others, but can also be a spoken form, and when it is, it will be declaring things to come and futuristic events, hence it is GOD's wisdom being shown.

This particular gift should be evident in a prophet's life along with the power gifts. A prophet's credentials come strickly from GOD, and GOD will verify a prophet of HIS by a show of power.

Dave i have a question for you. because now i think i'm totally confused between a word of wisdom and a word of knowledge and prophecy. these are the definitions that i have:

1. Word of Knowledge - A phrase that describes one of the nine manifestations of the Holy Spirit where information or knowledge is delivered by the Spirit of God supernaturally. Word of knowledge manifestations are usually short, often single word sentences that provide information for the hearer to act on while being used of God. For clarity, the term found in 1 Corinthians 12:8 would be understood as the "statement of knowledge, more of fact," for that is how it emerges to the hearer.
Statements about someone's health, condition, spiritual attitude, or conduct are the typical ways they manifest. Words of knowledge ordinarily do not require any overt action on the part of the hearer other than to verbalize what is heard with the spiritual ear. For the most part, words of knowledge are not necessarily revelatory or predictive. These features are routinely reserved for the prophecy anointing or manifestation.

2. Word of Wisdom - Similar to the word of knowledge, this communication from the Holy Spirit tends to emerge more elaborately. The information given is more of a practical sort rather than revelatory or predictive and it is tied to specific circumstances the hearer may be facing. Answers that describe wise and prudent follow-up action on their part is what ususally tends to come forth. With the word of wisdom manifestation, "how to" is emphasized over what is or is not. Then when and where are explained about the circumstances. See 1 Corinthians 12:8.
Words of wisdom, while they may complement or enlarge a prophecy with practical application, are not necessarily predictive unless its performance is contingent upon some future action. Consequently, when a predictive aspect is detected, it is because the message is tagged on to a prophecy that reveals what God wants to counsel or advise the recipient on.

3. Prophecy - Predictive revelation that God, who is eternal, speaks from outside time to His creation and family in time. Once a word from the Lord leaves eternity and makes its way in the earth, usually through a human vessel, it precedes the event that occasioned it. That is what makes prophecy what it is.

ok. that is why i am confused. it seems like what you're saying is the exact opposite of this.

i got these definitions from Paula Price's book The Prophet's Dictionary.

she says that the predictive or revelatory features are reserved for the prophecy anointing. that's why i'm confused about this. :confused: or is the prophecy anointing just what moves a person to prophesy and the word of wisdom or knowledge what the prophecy consists of? :scratch:

[Dave01]

she says that the predictive or revelatory features are reserved for the prophecy anointing. that's why i'm confused about this. :confused: or is the prophecy anointing just what moves a person to prophesy and the word of wisdom or knowledge what the prophecy consists of? :scratch:

No Jazzy, anyone who has received the baptism of The Holy Spirit can have all 9 gifts. Paul did and so can we. None of them are "reserved" to any ministry. When anyone says such things, they try to make GOD out to play favorites amongst HIS children, and HE certainly doesn't do that.

Her definitions are off. Let me try to clarify them for you,..


Word of Knowledge - This gift deals with known facts as revealed by The Holy Spirit by direct knowledge or visions. GOD shows you a situation that happened or is currently happening. It is not forthtelling at all. Example,..


48 (ASV) Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.


Here Jesus manifested the gift of knowledge. He was shown who Phillip was and something particular about what he was doing at that moment by The Holy Spirit. This was not a spoken statement, but a vision that Jesus had. It can be a spoken statement arising from The Holy Spirit within us, but it is not relegated to just that sort of activity, as we see here in scripture.

Another example,..


17 (ASV) The woman answered and said unto him, I have no husband. Jesus saith unto her, Thou saidst well, I have no husband:

18 (ASV) for thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: this hast thou said truly.


The gift of knowledge again. Jesus states known facts that are current and past. He doesn't say that He was shown them, just that He knew them, hence direct revelation knowledge. The facts were revealed to His spirit by The Holy Spirit or they were spoken directly by The Holy Spirit through His spirit.


Word of Wisdom - This gift is forthtelling in nature and is described as another of the three revelation gifts, in fact, it is called the greatest of the revelation gifts. It is GOD's all knowing wisdom and purpose being given in part to us by The Holy Spirit, whether by vision/dream or spoken from our spirit.

It is typically labled prophecy by folks, but it is not the "gift of prophecy." The gift of prophecy is defined in the NT as this,..


3 (NKJV) But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.


Revelation is not included as part of that definition by Paul, so when The Holy Spirit starts forthtelling things to be through a person, say in the assembly on a sunday, that person would be speaking by the word of wisdom at that moment, not the gift of prophecy. Even the gift of interpretation can switch over to the word of wisdom if the speaker interpreting has the gift operating in their life, even dreams such as what Daniel intepreted, are revealed by this gift.

Some examples,..


11 (ASV) And the night following, the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer: for as thou hast testified concerning me at Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.


The Lord spoke to Paul forthcoming events that were to take place, not current events. This would be an example of the word of wisdom being revealed by GOD to Paul, and it happened.

The destruction of the temple and the forthcoming events which were to take place prior to Jesus returning to earth were all spoken by this gift through The Lord. They were all forthtelling in nature, hence they were all from this gift.


Prophecy - Prophecy is one of the inspiration gifts. It is The Holy Spirit speaking through a person for edification, exhortation, and comfort to the body of Christ. All three of these things will be included in the message given through the individual. It is The Holy Spirit speaking through the person's spirit.


There is a lot of teaching coming out here lately that seems suspect when compared to what the old saints knew. The idea that the gift of the word of wisdom was just rightly dividing the word for a given situation, does more harm in this case because anyone can claim to operate in this gift if they are just a good expositor of the bible. The Spiritual gifts and the natural ablities of man are distinctively separate. Even the gifts themselves, are distinctly separate in operation, they don't mix up. I know that probably goes against the grain of most pentecostal and charismatic teachings, but they are as separate as candles on a lampstand.

Prophets in the OT and NT are known as seers. The revelation gifts are "seeing" type gifts since The Holy Spirit can give known insight by these gifts through visions and instant revelation knowledge. They are not "reserved" just for prophets, but prophets of GOD are expected to be operating in them since others before them did already. The gifts are not the mark of a prophet, but they will be there and operating maturely when GOD anoints his man or woman for that office. A prophet's credentials is GOD HIMSELF.

[jazzypooh]

ok. i see what you're saying. the word of knowledge speaks about the present and the past. and the word of wisdom speaks about the future.

but maybe the author wasn't just referring to prophets when she mentioned the prophecy anointing? i think she may have been referring to whoever the Holy Spirit led to prophesy whether they were a prophet or not. because she does make mention that psalmists, seers, intercessors and the official prophet can all have a prophecy anointing (but the official prophet must have this anointing). so maybe when she says that those features are reserved for the prophecy anointing, maybe she's talking about whoever has this anointing whether they be an official prophet or not.

with prophecy, i know you said that those 3 things are supposed to be present. do all 3 have to be present or just 1 of those 3? one of my friends is a prophet, and i think he said that at least 1 of those 3 have to be present.

[tturt]

Yes, that will save me taking the time to look them up. I know discernment is necessary.

Also you might find Jim Goll's book, Seer, very informative.

[jazzypooh]

the author also said that the word of wisdom is predictive when it is contingent upon a response from someone. wouldn't that be the case in the example you gave about Paul?

[Dave01]

ok. i see what you're saying. the word of knowledge speaks about the present and the past. and the word of wisdom speaks about the future.

but maybe the author wasn't just referring to prophets when she mentioned the prophecy anointing? i think she may have been referring to whoever the Holy Spirit led to prophesy whether they were a prophet or not. because she does make mention that psalmists, seers, intercessors and the official prophet can all have a prophecy anointing (but the official prophet must have this anointing). so maybe when she says that those features are reserved for the prophecy anointing, maybe she's talking about whoever has this anointing whether they be an official prophet or not.

She probably should have worded it better, it leaves one to think different.

There are two Spiritual anointings a person can receive according to scripture, within and upon. That is it. The word "anointing" tends to be thrown around in Spirit-filled circles as a sort of catch phrase to assemblies. When you hear people saying "Oh the anointing is here" they are wrong.

with prophecy, i know you said that those 3 things are supposed to be present. do all 3 have to be present or just 1 of those 3? one of my friends is a prophet, and i think he said that at least 1 of those 3 have to be present.

He would be incorrect,..


3 (NKJV) But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.


The passage says "and" in between the words. There are some particulars about scripture that we can miss at times, or tend to add our opinions to, but we must discipline ourselves not to do that and to abide by scripture and what it says.

[Dave01]

the author also said that the word of wisdom is predictive when it is contingent upon a response from someone. wouldn't that be the case in the example you gave about Paul?

I wouldn't know what she is talking about. She would have to produce scripture that could back her claim. To be honest with you Jazzy, the author doesn't seem to be that exact in her definitions, or they are misleading at times.

[jazzypooh]

yeah, you have a point there. the only scripture i see for that one is 1 Corinthians 12:8.

can u explain better about those 2 anointings you were talking about?

[Dave01]

yeah, you have a point there. the only scripture i see for that one is 1 Corinthians 12:8.

can u explain better about those 2 anointings you were talking about?

The first anointing would be the one that is within,..

27 (ASV) And as for you, the anointing which ye received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any one teach you; but as his anointing teacheth you; concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, ye abide in him.

This would be the anointing one receives when they receive the baptism of The Holy Spirit. I won't get into the differences between "receiving The Holy Spirit" and "being filled of The Holy Spirit" as it just leads to arguments out of folks. It is for maturity and teaching.

The second one people usually miss,..


8 (ASV) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,


This would be an anointing upon the head of Jesus. This would be for power. The Spirit of The Lord rested in power upon Him because of it. This would be a Spiritual truth of a material event in the OT. People that were set aside by GOD were anointed upon their heads. In this case, Jesus declares that GOD had anointed Him, not another prophet or someone upon the earth, His credentials were directly from GOD.

We see David talking about this also,..


5 (ASV) Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: Thou hast anointed my head with oil; My cup runneth over.


Obviously David experienced this tangible Spiritual anointing also.

[jazzypooh]

ok. i see. that makes a lot of sense. the 1st is for teaching you and the 2nd is for empowering you. i guess i missed the 1st one then. i recognize the 2nd, but have never heard of the 1st one until now. isn't that something? i think i've learned more here than in all my Bible classes put together...

thanks for clearing all this up for me Dave.

God bless!

[Dave01]

ok. i see. that makes a lot of sense. the 1st is for teaching you and the 2nd is for empowering you. i guess i missed the 1st one then. i recognize the 2nd, but have never heard of the 1st one until now. isn't that something? i think i've learned more here than in all my Bible classes put together...

thanks for clearing all this up for me Dave.

God bless!

No problem. You will find people that tend to dispute such things, as if they were not in the word, but the bible is true and The Holy Spirit will witness to it in your spirit.

later on :wave:

[jazzypooh]

yeah i ignore those people.

Be blessed!

[tturt]

posted: "the author also said that the word of wisdom is predictive when it is contingent upon a response from someone."

If I understand this statement - she's saying that the person that receives the word of wisdom has to agree to the prophetic word that they've received for it to come true. Is that right?

One Biblical example is "Luk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her."

[jazzypooh]

posted: "the author also said that the word of wisdom is predictive when it is contingent upon a response from someone."

If I understand this statement - she's saying that the person that receives the word of wisdom has to agree to the prophetic word that they've received for it to come true. Is that right?

One Biblical example is "Luk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her."

no, i think this is what she's saying:
the word of wisdom is predictive when the person that has received the word (not the giver of the word), must respond a certain way in order for it to come to pass. not that they have to agree to it per se, but that in order for it to happen like God desires for it to, they have to do something (most likely obey an instruction from God).

that's what i think she's saying.