Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

[ozell]

Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement that He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill.

Based on that statement many ministers have taught their congregation that the arrival of Jesus did away with the Old Testament along with its laws.

They even make the statement, to their congregation, that they are no longer under the Old Testament, but now operate under the New.

So you have people believing that the Old Testament is no longer relevant today. One needs only to further examine the scriptures to find out, how incorrect that position is.

In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states that as long as heaven and earth exist not one jot or not one tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist.

We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say.

The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

You will see the information needed to answer this will be found in the Old Testament. This itself serves as further proof as to how erroneous the position of doing away with the Old Testament is.

This lesson will focus on what Jesus was referring to when He said He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill and His position on the commandments.

[ozell]

JESUS CAME TO FULFILL

The Gospel of Luke, will reveal what Jesus meant when He said in (Matthew 5:17 & 18), that He came to fulfill and no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Looking at Luke chapter 24:14-44, you will find that, this is when Jesus had been crucified and Peter and others were at the grave site and they were contemplating the events that had occurred. Verse 16, tells you that Jesus had come among them but they did not know Him. In verse 17, Jesus asks them what were they discussing,
(17) And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

In verse 19 and 20, they explained to Jesus what had taken place, still not recognizing Him. Verse 21, tells why they were sad, they had expected Jesus to restore Israel. (Israel as a nation , had a history of being conquered by other nations.

They had been split into two kingdoms and the northern kingdom had already been taken into captivity prior to this time.

All that remained was Judah, and now it had been taken over by Rome.) Now this was the 3rd day since Jesus's crucifixion and they were in question because to them nothing had changed.

Israel still remained in its same state. Note what Jesus says to them in verse 25:

(25) Then he said unto them, O fool, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Now the prophets had spoke of many things that Jesus was to do when He came. However they were just focused on the redemption of Israel.

That is why Jesus told them in verse 25 that they were not bringing into remembrance all the things that were spoken of Him by the prophets.

He reminded them in verse 26 that He had to suffer first and then enter into glory. He then in verse 27 went over all that the scriptures had to say concerning Himself. Following is verse 27,

(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

The following verse explains what Jesus meant in (Matthew 5:17) where He said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill.

(Luke 24:44) And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Here Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled.

He also was referring to the writing of Moses, not the commandments. But since ministers have attempted to do away with the laws using that verse, that matter also will be dealt with.

Following are just a few examples of things written about Jesus, in the Old Testament along with the verses from the New Testament showing that Jesus fulfilled these in His first coming.

This will be followed by examples of things written that He wont fulfill until His second coming

[ozell]

THINGS ALREADY FULFILLED

Jesus was to born of a virgin.

Isaiah 7:14, Therefore the Lord himself shall give a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Luke 1:30, And the angel said unto her, Fear not Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

1:31, And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

2:12, For unto is born this in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Jesus was to be born in Bethlehem

Micah 5:2, But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Matthew 2:1, Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herold the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem.

Jesus was to have the Spirit of the Lord

Isaiah 11:2, And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

Matthew 3:16, And Jesus, when he was baptized, went straightway out the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

Jesus was to die for our sins

Isaiah 53:5, But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our pace was upon him; and with his stripes we were healed.

Romans 5:8, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[ozell]

THINGS YET TO BE FULFILLED

Jesus is to return to earth

Zechariah 14:1, Behold the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the mist of thee.

4, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south.

Jesus is to dwell in Zion

Psalm 132:13, For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Revelation 21:2, And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

(Note Zion is another name used when referring to Jerusalem)

Jesus is to execute judgement

Micah 4:3, And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up a sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore.

Jesus is to rule over all

Isaiah 9:6, For unto a child is born, and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus is to rid the world of Satan

Genesis 3:15, And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise his heel.

Revelation 20:10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

We can see from the above scriptures that Jesus has not yet accomplished all the things that had been written in reference to him in the Old Testament.

And looking at the definition of the word fulfill previously given all has not been fulfilled. Consequently one should not look at the Old Testament and its writing as being irrelevant nor think that they no longer need to adhere its laws.

Because based on and obtaining eternal life.

what Jesus, himself said, we will be held accountable to the writing of the Old Testament until all is fulfilled.

If one is still inclined to feel that Jesus did away with the Old Testament laws I encourage you to pay close attention to how Jesus replied when he was asked about the commandments

[ozell]

JESUS REINFORCES THE COMMANDMENTS

In Matthew verse 22:35, a lawyer who was well versed in the law proposed a question to Jesus.

(35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying.

(36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
The following verses show Jesus=s reply.

(37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

(38) This is the first and great commandment.

(39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Now Jesus was asked for the great commandment and He responded by stating the same commandments which had been given to Israel by Moses.

In verse 37, Jesus in his reply quoted the same commandment written in Deuteronomy.

(Deuteronomy 6:5), And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

In verse 39 Jesus quoted the commandment written in Leviticus.

(Leviticus 19:18) Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

The commandments given by Jesus encompass the Ten Commandments. Because if you love God you will not have any gods before Him nor make any graven images to worship, nor use His name in vain.

You will remember to keep the Sabbath day holy and you will honor your father and mother.

And if you love your neighbour you will not steal from him nor lie on him or commit murder against him.

You will not commit adultery nor covet that which belongs to another.

Note how Jesus replied when questioned about obtaining eternal life.

(Matthew 19:16), And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There in none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Now Jesus told the individual to obtain eternal life he must keep the commandments.

Now this person wanted Jesus to be specific so he asked which commandments.

(18) He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

(19) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Here once again Jesus gave instruction to keep the same commandments that had been given by Moses. Look at Jesus response in the Gospel of Luke when He was asked about how to obtain eternal life.

(Luke 10:25) And, behold a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Jesus first responds by answering him a question.

(Luke 10:26), He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

Jesus is asking him does he not know the writing of Moses. The lawyer responds in the following verse.

(Luke 10:27) And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now Jesus is going to let him know that his answer was correct.

(Luke 10:28) And he said unto him, Thou has answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Once again Jesus confirms that one should follow the laws given by Moses.

Contrary to the belief of many, Jesus did not do way with the laws of Moses or with the fact that one has to be obedient. This is evidenced in the following verse. Here Jesus tells you what you should do if you love Him.

(John 14:15) If you love me, keep my commandments.

The question one may have is which commandments?The same commandments given by Moses.

This applies to all of Gods laws, His Royal Laws which are the Ten Commandments as well as His Dietary Laws and Moral Laws found in the Old Testatment.

Jesus first coming did not do away with the laws. He did not issue any new commandments.

What Jesus did was to emphasize the spirit of the law.

[ozell]

JESUS MAGNIFIED THE COMMANDMENTS

Jesus did not only, not do away with the commandments, our role of obedience to those laws, intensified under his teaching.

Note what he says in the following verses.

(Matthew 5:27), Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

(28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a women to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus is saying, it is not enough for you to refrain from committing a sinful act. He is saying it is wrong for you to even entertain the thought, of committing an act of sin.

Your heart is your mind and if you allow a sinful thought to originate and fester there you may be unable to exercise restraint when confronted with a situation of temptation.

Jesus goes on further to emphasize this in the following verses.

(29) And if your right eye offend thy, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

(30) If your right hand offend you cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Here he is saying, it is better for you to destroy that member of your body, that you use to commit a sinful act with, rather than risk condemning your soul to hell.

He also tells you in (Matthew 5:43-47), to love your enemies, to bless them that curse you, and to do good to them that hate you.

In verse 48 he tells you why you should operate in this manner.

(Matthew 4:48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now Jesus tells us to be perfect and the question one should have perfect according to what. The answer is simple one should strive to be perfect in following Man's instruction manual the Holy Bible.

Jesus does not want us to abandon the laws instead he wants us to operate in the spirit of the laws.

[holo]

So you have people believing that the Old Testament is no longer relevant today.It's relevant, but that doesn't mean we're under the old covenant.

1. The old covenant was between God and Israel. Gentiles had nothing, and still have nothing, to do with it.
2. The NEW covenant is between God and all who believe.
3. The NEW covenant is based on faith in Christ rather than compliance with the law.
4. We who believe are DEAD to the law.
5. You belong either to the Law or to Christ.
6. The Law is one. If you're under it, you're under ALL of it.
7. The old covenant is old and waxed away.
8. It is FINISHED.
9. The Law is for the wicked and the ungodly. Unless you are wicked and ungodly, the Law is most definately NOT for you.
10. There's nothing Christ Himself does NOT provide, that you need the Law to provide.
11. The Law is the ministry of death.

[james415]

You are right ozell, the Old Covenant Law IS still in effect.

The Old Covenant “Law of the Letter” leads to death.
The New Covenant “Law of the Spirit” leads to life.

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

It sounds like the “Letter” is not done with you yet. But not to worry, one day it will finish its work and you will be "born again" of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:7-8 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

zechariah 11;10&11. "I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord."

Jesus fulfilled the Law which was to break the old temporary Covenant and replace it with the eternal true Covenant of God. Which was Jesus on the Cross. The Old covenant was Just the foreshadowing of the New covenant which was eternal.

I pray my words do not offend any.
God bless C.F. and all who use it.

[ozell]

It's relevant, but that doesn't mean we're under the old covenant.

1. The old covenant was between God and Israel. Gentiles had nothing, and still have nothing, to do with it.
2. The NEW covenant is between God and all who believe.
3. The NEW covenant is based on faith in Christ rather than compliance with the law.
4. We who believe are DEAD to the law.
5. You belong either to the Law or to Christ.
6. The Law is one. If you're under it, you're under ALL of it.
7. The old covenant is old and waxed away.
8. It is FINISHED.
9. The Law is for the wicked and the ungodly. Unless you are wicked and ungodly, the Law is most definately NOT for you.
10. There's nothing Christ Himself does NOT provide, that you need the Law to provide.
11. The Law is the ministry of death.


Holo

Take a look at this

Heb8v5: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13: In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

now go into chapter 9

Heb 9v1: Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2: For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3: And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4: Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5: And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6: Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7: But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10: Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11: But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13: For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Paul tells us what covenant had waxen old and taken away. ANIMAL SACRIFICE and the ordinances that goes with it.

Take a look at verse 10 it say it was imposed on them until the reformation(Jesus)

Jesus death and blood replaced animal sacrifice

[jmacvols]

Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy


In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement that He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill.

Based on that statement many ministers have taught their congregation that the arrival of Jesus did away with the Old Testament along with its laws.

They even make the statement, to their congregation, that they are no longer under the Old Testament, but now operate under the New.

So you have people believing that the Old Testament is no longer relevant today. One needs only to further examine the scriptures to find out, how incorrect that position is.

In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states that as long as heaven and earth exist not one jot or not one tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist.

We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say.

The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

You will see the information needed to answer this will be found in the Old Testament. This itself serves as further proof as to how erroneous the position of doing away with the Old Testament is.

This lesson will focus on what Jesus was referring to when He said He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill and His position on the commandments.

Note the contrast between the words "fulfill" and "destroy" in v17. Christ took away the OT not by destroying it, but by fulfilling it. By Christ fulfilling the prophecies of the OT, He took it out of the way.

[ozell]

Note the contrast between the words "fulfill" and "destroy" in v17. Christ took away the OT not by destroying it, but by fulfilling it. By Christ fulfilling the prophecies of the OT, He took it out of the way.

Zech14v1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


Is this fulfilled? When Jesus came the first time, did he fulfill this?

Is Jesus the king over the whole earth?

has anyone sen his feet touch the mount of olive?

lets reason together

[jmacvols]

Zech14v1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


[quote=ozell]Is this fulfilled? When Jesus came the first time, did he fulfill this?

Is Jesus the king over the whole earth?

If the man know as "Jesus" did not fulfill the OT prophecy about the Messiah, then "Jesus" was not the Messiah.
I believe Zech 14 is using figurative langauge about Christ setting up His kingdom, [the church] and reigning over that kingdom throughout the Christian age. And Christ did set that kingdom up, [see Acts 2] and is now reigning over that kingdom, 1 Cor 15:25,26.

has anyone sen his feet touch the mount of olive?

lets reason together

Again, this context of Zech 14 is using figurative language. From 1 Thess 4:17, the "saved" will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall they ever be with the Lord. The Lord's feet will not touch the earth again.

[ozell]

Zech14v1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

[QUOTE]If the man know as "Jesus" did not fulfill the OT prophecy about the Messiah, then "Jesus" was not the Messiah.
I believe Zech 14 is using figurative langauge about Christ setting up His kingdom, [the church] and reigning over that kingdom throughout the Christian age. And Christ did set that kingdom up, [see Acts 2] and is now reigning over that kingdom, 1 Cor 15:25,26.

Let's look at it in a different light.

Jesus will sit on David's throne this was told to mary by Gabriel.

When did Jesus sit on he throne of David? David throne was in Jersualem. Where in Jersualem is Jesus sitting, where is He?

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

John wrote before Jesus comes the earth, sun, moon and heavens will go through some changes.

when did this occur?

Rv6v12: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14: And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15: And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16: And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

and in your above statement you said you believe?
Believing is required but how much do you understand!:)


Again, this context of Zech 14 is using figurative language. From 1 Thess 4:17, the "saved" will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall they ever be with the Lord. The Lord's feet will not touch the earth again.

You read what the prophets said, Zachariah said Jesus feet will touch the mount of Olives(earth)

but sense you don't believe that lets get another witness, hopefully you will understand so you can believe all that the Lord has written.

Acts1v 1: The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12: Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.


Paul told us to

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

[RefrusRevlis]

If the man know as "Jesus" did not fulfill the OT prophecy about the Messiah, then "Jesus" was not the Messiah.
I believe Zech 14 is using figurative langauge about Christ setting up His kingdom, [the church] and reigning over that kingdom throughout the Christian age. And Christ did set that kingdom up, [see Acts 2] and is now reigning over that kingdom, 1 Cor 15:25,26.


:amen: :amen: :amen: :amen:

[jmacvols]

[quote=jmacvols;37195884]

You read what the prophets said, Zachariah said Jesus feet will touch the mount of Olives(earth)

but sense you don't believe that lets get another witness, hopefully you will understand so you can believe all that the Lord has written.

Acts1v 1: The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12: Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.


Paul told us to

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


A bulk of OT prophecies about the Messiah was written in figurative language. You will encounter problems trying to make this language literal.

Yes, Christ will sit upon David's throne, but it is not a literal, physical throne here on earth, but a spiritual one in heaven. We have already seen from 1 Cor 15:24,25, Rev 3:21. Christ is now reigning over His kingdom, the church from heaven right now. From Jn 18:36 Christ said Himself His kingdom was not of this world, He is not going to have a earthly, material kingdom, but a spiritual one. In Jeremiah 22:30 it was prophesied that no seed of Coniah (Jeconiah) shall prosper sitting upon the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah. Christ was the from the seed of Coniah, hence He will not sit upon Daivd's physical throne and rule over Judah. In Zech 6:12ff it is prophesied that Christ will be a priest upon His throne. YEt From Hebrews chpts 7 and 8 Christ was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, so He could not be a priest while here on earth.

Acts 1:1-12 does not say anything about Christ putting His feet upon earth again. Again 1 Thess 4:17 says the saved will meet the Lord in the air and so shall ever be with the Lord.

Acts 24:14 I also believe the things written in the law and prophets, yet those things were a foreshawdow of Christianity, I do not follow those OT law, but NT law.

[ozell]

[quote=ozell;37226708]


A bulk of OT prophecies about the Messiah was written in figurative language. You will encounter problems trying to make this language literal.

Yes, Christ will sit upon David's throne, but it is not a literal, physical throne here on earth, but a spiritual one in heaven. We have already seen from 1 Cor 15:24,25, Rev 3:21. Christ is now reigning over His kingdom, the church from heaven right now. From Jn 18:36 Christ said Himself His kingdom was not of this world, He is not going to have a earthly, material kingdom, but a spiritual one. In Jeremiah 22:30 it was prophesied that no seed of Coniah (Jeconiah) shall prosper sitting upon the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah. Christ was the from the seed of Coniah, hence He will not sit upon Daivd's physical throne and rule over Judah. In Zech 6:12ff it is prophesied that Christ will be a priest upon His throne. YEt From Hebrews chpts 7 and 8 Christ was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, so He could not be a priest while here on earth.

Acts 1:1-12 does not say anything about Christ putting His feet upon earth again. Again 1 Thess 4:17 says the saved will meet the Lord in the air and so shall ever be with the Lord.

Acts 24:14 I also believe the things written in the law and prophets, yet those things were a foreshawdow of Christianity, I do not follow those OT law, but NT law.


what is NT law?

understand what you are saying. You said you believe>
#1 that a wrong statement. check this out.

Gabriel said this

Lk 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings

31: And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

is this figurative the name Jesus? lets continue.

32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Is Jesus the son of God? is this figurative?
why must jesus sitting on the throne of David be figurative? it came from the same source using the same mouth in the same statement.

lets continue.

33: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Is Jesus king of the Jews? will he rule over the Jews?


This is NT.

see you believe, Paul and the Apostle knows. there is a big difference between faith and knowing.

Paul said this

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

this is NT.

see the OT was taught and it was not figuratively.

who should the people believe, what a person believes or what is written?

[jmacvols]

what is NT law?

Laws that the NT contains. And yes, the NT does contain law. It was prophesied that the NT would contain law, Isa 2:2,3. James speaks of the perfect law of liberty, Jam 1:25. John said sin is transgressing the law. If the NT did not contain law, then no one could transgress/sin.

understand what you are saying. You said you believe>
#1 that a wrong statement. check this out.

Gabriel said this

Lk 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings

31: And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

is this figurative the name Jesus? lets continue.

32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Is Jesus the son of God? is this figurative?
why must jesus sitting on the throne of David be figurative? it came from the same source using the same mouth in the same statement.

lets continue.

I said most of the prophecies from the OT prophets such as Zech 14, use figurative language.

33: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Is Jesus king of the Jews? will he rule over the Jews?
Jesus will have no earthly kingdom, He said so Himself, Jn 18:36. His kingdom is a spiritual one, the church, which He now reigns over from heaven, 1 Cor 15:25,26.



This is NT.

see you believe, Paul and the Apostle knows. there is a big difference between faith and knowing.

Paul said this

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

this is NT.

see the OT was taught and it was not figuratively.

who should the people believe, what a person believes or what is written?

We can study and learn from the OT law, Acts 28:23, 1 Cor 10:11, but we are not governed by it. The OT law was given to the Jews, Exo 34:27; Deut 4:1; 1 Kings 8:9. The OT law was only for a certain time before a new and better covenant would take its place, Jer 31:31-34>Heb 8:7-13.

[tturt]

ozell, I've been reading on this lately and it was interesting to me that they say out of the 613 laws only 1/4 were fulfilled with Christ Jesus' sacrifice. Of course, that's not meant to downplay His sacrifice just help people to realize the numbers. Plus the author said that almost half of the NT is from the OT and that each covenant wasn't meant to replace the previous one - just add to it.

[jmacvols]

ozell, I've been reading on this lately and it was interesting to me that they say out of the 613 laws only 1/4 were fulfilled with Christ Jesus' sacrifice. Of course, that's not meant to downplay His sacrifice just help people to realize the numbers. Plus the author said that almost half of the NT is from the OT and that each covenant wasn't meant to replace the previous one - just add to it.


THe OT law could not be just added to the NT for there are too many discrepancies between the two. For example, under the OT law one could not get complete forgiveness of sins while under the NT one can. Both of these differences cannot exist at the same time. Besides this, we have what Paul wrote in Rom 7:1-4. Here Paul compares an adulteress woman to one who tries to live by the OT and NT at the same time. If one tries to live by both laws he is committing a kind of spiritual adultery. A woman was free to marry if her first husband was dead, likewise we are free to be under the NT for the OT is dead. One cannot be 'joined' to Christ (NT) and another (OT) at the same time for that is "adultery".

[Clydson]

Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement that He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill. Based on that statement many ministers have taught their congregation that the arrival of Jesus did away with the Old Testament along with its laws. They even make the statement, to their congregation, that they are no longer under the Old Testament, but now operate under the New. So you have people believing that the Old Testament is no longer relevant today. One needs only to further examine the scriptures to find out, how incorrect that position is. In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states that as long as heaven and earth exist not one jot or not one tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled. Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. You will see the information needed to answer this will be found in the Old Testament. This itself serves as further proof as to how erroneous the position of doing away with the Old Testament is. This lesson will focus on what Jesus was referring to when He said He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill and His position on the commandments.

Greetings ozell.

It may be a little easier for understanding to consider the ramifications of Christ's sacrifice.

First, however, it is also important to understand the nature of the old covenant compared to the new covenant. The old covenant was not made to the Gentile nations, but rather the Israelites only. This, then, necessarily eliminates all Gentile nations from being amenable to Moses to begin with. The ramifications of this one single fact disallow any and all Gentiles from being governed by Moses. So, if you’re Gentile, you cannot be justified by Moses, period, and it makes no difference what is meant by “destroy” or “fulfill” the law of Moses.

There is another ramification necessarily concerning the Jew or Jewish proselyte. Paul explains;

2 Cor 3:7-16
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.
11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech —
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
NKJV

This teaching was given to the church, specifically the church at Corinth. Even more specifically, those in Corinth who were Jews or proselytes. Yet we Gentiles can learn from it. The Law of Moses, to the Christian church, was a “ministry of death” or “ministry of condemnation”, of which the gospel of Christ remedies.

Paul gives testimony that has helped me in my understanding of this issue;

Acts 24:14
14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
NKJV

Paul says that he does not worship God according to the Law of Moses, which governed the old covenant. This, at least to me, seems mighty strange coming from a Jew, even a Pharisee. What did Paul understand? Well, he undoubtedly understood the ramifications of Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet even though he worshipped God according to the Way, he continued believing the Law and the prophets. So do I.

Finally, Jesus clears up a matter that completes the understanding, at least in my opinion. He testified to Pilate that his kingdom was not of this earth. The Israelite nation was indeed an earthly nation, and still is. The Hebrew writer further clarifies;

Heb 7:11-13
11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levit'ical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchiz'edek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron?
12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.
RSV

Even if we do not understand “destroy” or “fulfill” the law, we can at least understand the ramifications of the cross of Jesus concerning those who contemplate “reading” the Law of Moses.

Jake

[New_Wineskin]

Even if we do not understand “destroy” or “fulfill” the law, we can at least understand the ramifications of the cross of Jesus concerning those who contemplate “reading” the Law of Moses.

Jake

Exactly !! If one was not under the Law *before* salvation , why would there be a need *after* ? For those who were not under the Law , it doesn't matter if the Law was fulfilled , destroyed , annulled , expanded , lessened , or whatever . It only matters to those who were under the Law from the beginning .

[ozell]

ozell, I've been reading on this lately and it was interesting to me that they say out of the 613 laws only 1/4 were fulfilled with Christ Jesus' sacrifice. Of course, that's not meant to downplay His sacrifice just help people to realize the numbers. Plus the author said that almost half of the NT is from the OT and that each covenant wasn't meant to replace the previous one - just add to it.


Hi

good observation

I like to use this one.

Thou shalt not kill.

How can this law be fulfilled when people are being killed
every day.

thanks for your common sense.

[ozell]

Clydson;37330600]Greetings ozell.

It may be a little easier for understanding to consider the ramifications of Christ's sacrifice.

First, however, it is also important to understand the nature of the old covenant compared to the new covenant. The old covenant was not made to the Gentile nations, but rather the Israelites only. This, then, necessarily eliminates all Gentile nations from being amenable to Moses to begin with. The ramifications of this one single fact disallow any and all Gentiles from being governed by Moses. So, if you’re Gentile, you cannot be justified by Moses, period, and it makes no difference what is meant by “destroy” or “fulfill” the law of Moses.

Hi

forgive me for my absent. all my comptures are down and I'm on a very slow one this moment.

The new covenant was made to the house of Israel.

The new covenant and the old covenant says the same thing

Jeremiah30 or 31 and Hebrews8


There is another ramification necessarily concerning the Jew or Jewish proselyte. Paul explains;

Cor 3:7-16
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.
11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech —
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
NKJV

This teaching was given to the church, specifically the church at Corinth. Even more specifically, those in Corinth who were Jews or proselytes. Yet we Gentiles can learn from it. The Law of Moses, to the Christian church, was a “ministry of death” or “ministry of condemnation”, of which the gospel of Christ remedies.


where do it say that Moses laws is a ministry of death?

what Law required death?

Paul gives testimony that has helped me in my understanding of this issue;


Acts 24:14
14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
NKJV

Paul says that he does not worship God according to the Law of Moses, which governed the old covenant. This, at least to me, seems mighty strange coming from a Jew, even a Pharisee. What did Paul understand? Well, he undoubtedly understood the ramifications of Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet even though he worshipped God according to the Way, he continued believing the Law and the prophets. So do I.


Paul and You as well as I BELIEVED(HAVE FAITH) in
ALL THINGS WRITTEN

understand what Paul has said
ALL THINGS WRITTEN BY Moses and THE prophets



Finally, Jesus clears up a matter that completes the understanding, at least in my opinion. He testified to Pilate that his kingdom was not of this earth. The Israelite nation was indeed an earthly nation, and still is. The Hebrew writer further clarifies;

Heb 7:11-13
11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levit'ical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchiz'edek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron?
12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.
RSV

Even if we do not understand “destroy” or “fulfill” the law, we can at least understand the ramifications of the cross of Jesus concerning those who contemplate “reading” the Law of Moses.

Jake



The lessson I put gave testimony of what was fulfilled when Jesus came in the flesh.

it is veryclear that when Jesus comes back to take the earth and set up his kingdom, this part of prophecy is not fulfilled

ozell

[RefrusRevlis]

it is veryclear that when Jesus comes back to take the earth and set up his kingdom, this part of prophecy is not fulfilled


But Jesus is reigning now:scratch: .

Where do you get the idea he is going to take the Earth and set up his kingdom on it?

Refrus

[ozell]

But Jesus is reigning now:scratch: .

Where do you get the idea he is going to take the Earth and set up his kingdom on it?

Refrus


Hi

unfortunately my computer is down and I'm on a very slow computer.

Revelation20v1-6 Jesus kingdom when he returns
Zechariah 14v1-9 Jesus will rule over all the earth when he returns
Daniel 7v9-27 Jesus and the saints ruling under the whole heaven.

Jesus is our high priest now! that's bible
Jesus is not the king of the earth YET.
satan controls the earth now. that's bible

Jesus told pilate that if this was his kingdom, his servant would fight. When Jesus returns we will fight, saint.

I have a lot more and I will answer, hopefully, by next week I will be back on my own computer.

peace in Jesus

ozell

[GnosticSoldier]

Hi

unfortunately my computer is down and I'm on a very slow computer.

Revelation20v1-6 Jesus kingdom when he returns
Zechariah 14v1-9 Jesus will rule over all the earth when he returns
Daniel 7v9-27 Jesus and the saints ruling under the whole heaven.

Jesus is our high priest now! that's bible
Jesus is not the king of the earth YET.
satan controls the earth now. that's bible

Jesus told pilate that if this was his kingdom, his servant would fight. When Jesus returns we will fight, saint.

I have a lot more and I will answer, hopefully, by next week I will be back on my own computer.

peace in Jesus

ozell
Ummm, I don't really want to bother quoting biblical passages, since everyone usually knows them anyways, but since many believe Revelations is prophecy, which it isn't in the least, supposing it were prophecy, doesn't anyone find the suggestions of "lamb returning with great wrath" seem suggestive of destruction?

Logically, if Christ is a spirit able to be reincarnated, does it not seem logical that the only one with both the strength and the knowledge to destroy the Christian religion would indeed be the Sabbath, Messiah, Christ himself?

[cyberlizard]

re-incarnation??? as in the hindu belief of trans-migration of souls.

I'm not sure that idea is scriptural... hebrews states 'once to die and then the judgement'.

[GnosticSoldier]

re-incarnation??? as in the hindu belief of trans-migration of souls.

I'm not sure that idea is scriptural... hebrews states 'once to die and then the judgement'.
Well, for Jesus who was alive a long time ago to return to Earth in human form once again, wouldn't that be reincarnation?

Or maybe he'd be like a totally different person? Maybe Jesus with a 90's attitude. That would be cool.

[Ishida]

He'll come back the same way he went away. Meaning he'll descend from the sky, not be re-incarnated.

[johnchao]

Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy


In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement that He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill.

Based on that statement many ministers have taught their congregation that the arrival of Jesus did away with the Old Testament along with its laws.

They even make the statement, to their congregation, that they are no longer under the Old Testament, but now operate under the New.

So you have people believing that the Old Testament is no longer relevant today. One needs only to further examine the scriptures to find out, how incorrect that position is.

In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states that as long as heaven and earth exist not one jot or not one tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist.

We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say.

The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

You will see the information needed to answer this will be found in the Old Testament. This itself serves as further proof as to how erroneous the position of doing away with the Old Testament is.

This lesson will focus on what Jesus was referring to when He said He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill and His position on the commandments.
The teaching about the Old Testament Bible

Jn 10:35 the Scripture cannot be broken—
(Note: When Jesus spoke this word, there was no New Testament Bible)
Mt 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
(Note: The Bible is the words Christ spoke, Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away)
Gal 3:15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.
Rev 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets."
(Note: What God announced to his servants the prophets is the mystery of God)
Dt 4:1 Hear now, O Israel, the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land that Yahweh, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of Yahweh your God that I give you.

[Nadiine]

Well, for Jesus who was alive a long time ago to return to Earth in human form once again, wouldn't that be reincarnation?

Or maybe he'd be like a totally different person? Maybe Jesus with a 90's attitude. That would be cool.
Well, Jesus is GOD - how does an eternal God "reincarnate"??? He always WAS, IS and WILL BE

Praise His name!!:clap: :bow:

[GnosticSoldier]

Well I'd agree by default. But for Jesus to walk in the form of human flesh, a human body made of flesh would be required, would it not? Thus wouldn't the idea of an eternal god taking a form of flesh more than once be the very notion of reincarnation? A soul or spirit can be eternal, but in order to communicate amongst humans would require a physical or corporeal body would it not?

[Spiritofprophecy]

Well I'd agree by default. But for Jesus to walk in the form of human flesh, a human body made of flesh would be required, would it not? Thus wouldn't the idea of an eternal god taking a form of flesh more than once be the very notion of reincarnation? A soul or spirit can be eternal, but in order to communicate amongst humans would require a physical or corporeal body would it not?
Greetings in the name of Jesus:

dear sir: you do wrestle in spirit and seek Gods truth. I commend you, and also agree, and add for you. matt 11;14. elijah returned in John the baptist.

I praise God for your spirit.

I pray no one take offense, God bless C.F. and all who use it.