The Nicene Creed take Two: Credo...

[Loki]

The Nicene Creed (take two). To see take one, click here. (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=32763380&postcount=5)

I know I've posted my issues with the creed at least once before here, possibly twice or thrice before, way back when. I think I've mentioned it at UC, also.

Well, time makes fools of us all.


Here we go.

We believe in one GodEstablishing that the people of God, not the individual, is the important, indivisible unit, and establishing monotheism. I assent.

The Father, the AlmightyDescribing attributes or metaphors to convey a conception of God. I assent.

Maker of Heaven and of Earth
Of all that is seen and unseenPoetic way of saying everything. I assent.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ
Eternally begotten of the FatherEqual status with the first person of the Trinity. Defines Jesus as the Messiah and the one reigning in the Reign of God. I assent.

God from God, Light from Light
True God from True God
Begotten, not made
One in being with the Father
Through him all things were made.Through the Word all was made, but the Son was not made, but rather eternally springs from the Father. The Son of God is fully God. I assent.

For us men and for our salvationBecause humanity is fallen. I assent.

He came down from Heaven
By the power of the Holy Spirit (bow head ;)
He was born of the Virgin MaryEstablishes virgin birth and divine "parentage." I assent.

And became manAlso fully human. I assent.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontious Pilate
He suffered, died, and was buriedIt's a statement. Sure, why not. I assent.

On the third day he rose again
In fulfillment with the scripturesTHus was a prophesized connection to the Jewish prophets, Old Testament, original Covenant. I assent.

He ascended into heavenI'll assume that this is due to weird quantum physics probability stuff that has such a small probability of occuring that it would take longer than the lifetime of the universe. Because if he really went bodily, he'd not be able to be of matter and exceed the speed of light, which would put him still within our galaxy. If it's spiritually, sure, why not. He went to Hell, too, no? I assent.

And is seated at the right hand of the Father.Figuratively speaking. I assent.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead
And his kingdom will have no end.If you say so. I assent.

We believe in the Holy Spirit
The Lord, the giver of life
Who proceeds from the Father and the SonEqual status with the other persons of the Trinity, equally divine. I assent.

With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified
He has spoken through the prophets.Statements. Sure, why not. I assent.

We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic churchOne universal church comprised of those who follow Christ. I assent.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sinsI find it easier to believe in the sacraments than in God. I assent.

We look to the resurrection of the dead. . . ew? I have problems with this as a biologist.

And the life of the world to come.Basileia? or afterlife? I can suspend disbelief. I assent.

I'll post this now; perhaps I'll regret it when I'm sober and awake tomorrow morning. I hope not. I'm sure I also committed multiple and varying heresies.

[JasonV]

Loki,

As a biologist, what is most difficult with the Resurrection? And if you have a chance, what are your thoughts about Reincarnation?

Thanks. :)

[Loki]

Bodily resurrection of the dead... where are you going to get all that carbon? Our bodies are made of previously dead other bodies from various kingdoms.

Honestly, I have trouble with physical anything that has to do with death/edge of life stuff; bodily assumption, bodily resurrection.

As for reincarnation, the first problem I see is that there seems to be some trouble with the bookkeeping of souls; if one can be reincarnated as a variety of animals, this number has fluctuated wildly throughout the history of the earth. Mass extinctions. . . where do all the souls go?

If you mean a reincarnation of the soul into a new body with full knowledge of what it was previously, where is all the matter going to be pulled from? What's the necessity of a biological form if it's truly the end of times? I would rather not have to deal with biological nuisances such as maintaining proper trace mineral levels so that the biological body keeps running properly.

[Rebekka]

Bodily resurrection of the dead... where are you going to get all that carbon? Our bodies are made of previously dead other bodies from various kingdoms.
I am writing my masters thesis about the novels of the Dutch author Cees Nooteboom. His novel "The next story" deals with this metamorphosis quite beautifully. I can recommend it. :thumbsup:

But I have to warn you - the biologist in this book isn't exactly a nice woman, even though the protagonist is in love with her. :D

[Loki]

Scientists are infrequently portrayed nicely in literature.

[Rebekka]

Scientists are infrequently portrayed nicely in literature.
Well it's not because she is a scientist that she is so nasty, it's her personality. She doesn't treat the protagonist right. And she's cold. I know lots of very kind and warm biologists in person.

[Loki]

I should clarify that this is a profession de foi. It's been years since I've been able to say the creed and mean it in my own way, or even say that I believe in God.

[JasonV]

I appreciate you sharing your journey with us Loki. Nobody here is going to judge you for what you do or do not believe.

:)

[Maynard Keenan]

I do have trouble with bodily resurrection. I don't see afterlife as having any physical component, though I could be wrong I suppose.