Article - "No, I'm Not Offended"

[Jenna]

"Aren't you offended? That is the question many Evangelicals are being asked in the wake of a recent document released by the Vatican. The document declares that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church -- or, in words the Vatican would prefer to use, the only institutional form in which the Church of Christ subsists.

No, I am not offended. In the first place, I am not offended because this is not an issue in which emotion should play a key role. This is a theological question, and our response should be theological, not emotional." (Read Complete Article (http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=973))

[Melethiel]

I'm not offended - that's always been the RC position, and I respect the Pope for stating it clearly.

Why should people be surprised that the Pope is *gasp* Catholic?

[Jenna]

*laughs* That was kind of the point of the article- that at least the RCC has stated their position boldly, and that we should do the same. :)

[TCat]

I'm not offended but I do feel sorry for Christians that think their church's teaching is the only truth and every other Christian church is wrong. It somehow sends the message that there are degrees of Christianity.

No wonder those who feel the Holy Spirit calling them get so confused. Who is right? Where am I to go to learn about the real Jesus? No wonder so many fall prey to New Age garbage, we can't present the Truth which is Jesus without making it "us" vs. "them".

[Jenna]

So you don't ever believe that any other Christian churches are in error concerning some of their doctrinal teachings?

It just strikes me that there are areas where we can't all be right at the same time. :)

[PreachersWife2004]

It's rather hard to be offended by a position that is so clearly WRONG.

[DaRev]

This statement by Pope Benny is nothing new. It stems from the years immediately following the east/west schism. It's basically a reaffirmation of the Papal Bull "Unum Sanctum" of 1302 which basically states that unless you are in communion with the Roman pontiff you are accursed. "There is no salvation outside the 'holy Roman Church'." Practically every pope since then has reaffirmed this.

I like the statement implied in the "Luther" movie: "There is salvation outside the (Roman) Church, but not outside of Christ."

[TCat]

So you don't ever believe that any other Christian churches are in error concerning some of their doctrinal teachings?

It just strikes me that there are areas where we can't all be right at the same time. :)

I agree that there is some error in all Christian churches, because although the Word is infallable humans are not and our own sins and pride get in the way of the Truth at times. Leagalism is alive and well in all churches.
The difficulty comes when we condem and judge other Christians on points that have nothing to do with Salvation and the Truth about the saving grace of Christ.

[Jim47]

This may not be a sureprise, but I don't think the majority of Cathloics believe that. I really could care less what the Pope says, I believe scripture alone :preach:

[TCat]

I like the statement implied in the "Luther" movie: "There is salvation outside the (Roman) Church, but not outside of Christ."

This is a perfect statement although I rather like it without the word Roman.
"There is salvation outside the church, but not outside of Christ."

[Jenna]

Of course, it is not the church that saves. However, if the context is removed then it makes it sound like a very common excuse given by Christians for forsaking the assembly of believers. :)

[DaSeminarian]

"Aren't you offended? That is the question many Evangelicals are being asked in the wake of a recent document released by the Vatican. The document declares that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church -- or, in words the Vatican would prefer to use, the only institutional form in which the Church of Christ subsists.

No, I am not offended. In the first place, I am not offended because this is not an issue in which emotion should play a key role. This is a theological question, and our response should be theological, not emotional." (Read Complete Article (http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=973))

I totally agree with you. This is not something to which we should be all up in arms about emotionally. We should in fact, be ready to show why the Roman Catholic church has ceased to be that which they claim. Why Luther wanted to debate the abuses of the Church 490 years ago should be where we start. I don't declare anyone in any church body to be unchristian, but it is clear that most lay people do not understand their church's confession of faith.

When I become a Pastor and I am teaching catechism, I will ask my class "Why are you Lutheran?" I am sure it will cause them to do this :scratch: . Which is good because it will show me that they can be taught our confessions as well as help them to understand the scriptures more clearly than ever before.

The terms Lutheran and Christian should be interchangeable.

[dinkime]

am i offended by this? no

what offends me, is a family i know who are very strong in SNAP (support network for those abused by priests) who speak out so strongly against the catholic church (for the abuse scandals) yet send their child to a catholic school?!?!?!?!!

[DaRev]

This is a perfect statement although I rather like it without the word Roman.
"There is salvation outside the church, but not outside of Christ."

Since the body of believers make up the Church, there is no salvation outside the Church.

[Lupinus]

Rev beat me to it. The "Church" is not a building, a group of buildings, or a denomination or any such thing. The group is you me us belivers in Christ. If you believe in Christ you are a member of the church catholic.

[TCat]

Church being the body of believers, church (small c) meaning a particular church.

[Zecryphon]

I'm not offended but I do feel sorry for Christians that think their church's teaching is the only truth and every other Christian church is wrong. It somehow sends the message that there are degrees of Christianity.

No wonder those who feel the Holy Spirit calling them get so confused. Who is right? Where am I to go to learn about the real Jesus? No wonder so many fall prey to New Age garbage, we can't present the Truth which is Jesus without making it "us" vs. "them".
I used to be into the new age garbage and half the appeal was, the simplicity of it all. If you wanted love to come to you, all you had to do was put a rose quartz crystal near you and love would come. LOL It's really very simplistic.

[DaSeminarian]

I used to be into the new age garbage and half the appeal was, the simplicity of it all. If you wanted love to come to you, all you had to do was put a rose quartz crystal near you and love would come. LOL It's really very simplistic.


That's kind of funny. I was reading in Roland Bainton's "Here I Stand" last night regarding Erasmus of Rotterdam. Luther rejected Erasmus notions that Christianity should be made more simplistic for the very reasons you stated. There is no substance to any of it.

[Lupinus]

I used to be into the new age garbage and half the appeal was, the simplicity of it all. If you wanted love to come to you, all you had to do was put a rose quartz crystal near you and love would come. LOL It's really very simplistic.

Well theres a wee bit more to it then that if done "properly". But yes, it is much more simplistic lol.

[Zecryphon]

This statement by Pope Benny is nothing new. It stems from the years immediately following the east/west schism. It's basically a reaffirmation of the Papal Bull "Unum Sanctum" of 1302 which basically states that unless you are in communion with the Roman pontiff you are accursed. "There is no salvation outside the 'holy Roman Church'." Practically every pope since then has reaffirmed this.

I like the statement implied in the "Luther" movie: "There is salvation outside the (Roman) Church, but not outside of Christ."
One of my favorite quotes from the Luther movie is:

"The Pope may interpret scripture, but he is not above it."

[Edial]

I do not know even ONE Catholic that fully believes that there is no salvation outside of the RCC.

The Roman Catholic Church manages to make the most ridiculous and unrealistic statements while having no worry that their own people would complain.

And the RCC KNOWS that their people do not believe that statement.

Yet they also know that their people would defend the RCC despite of the lies and the pomp and the unscriptural practices that they promote.

RCC KNOWS that people in general care little about the truth.
Yet they know that people care about strenght.
And they are strong, big and fat.

The RCC (and EO) know exactly what they are doing.

They are giving people a certain sense of security.
And truth has little to do with it.

They claim to be right, and that's good enough for a regular member.

Thanks,
Ed

[DaRev]

I do not know even ONE Catholic that fully believes that there is no salvation outside of the RCC.


I do, and have argued with many of them.

[ctay]

There are a few in our church that left the RC church, they started reading their bibles and started having questions and didn't believe in some of what they teach

[Edial]

Sometimes I ask some of the more devoted ones why they put so much faith into the RCC.
The best that it could offer is ... Purgatory.

RCC and EO know how to enslave people.

They are very good at it.

[DaRev]

Sometimes I ask some of the more devoted ones why they put so much faith into the RCC.
The best that it could offer is ... Purgatory.

RCC and EO know how to enslave people.

They are very good at it.

Absolutely! It's the guilt thing. I know all about it. Been there, done that.

[PreachersWife2004]

I know plenty of RC and every one of them believes that there is no salvation outside of their church.

From my ex-boyfriend, to his priest, to his parents, his sister and his grandma, to the Catholics that I have dialog with even today...they all believe that I am not heaven-bound and are astonished when I say that I know without a doubt that I'll be in heaven when I die. Laughingly enough, they consider that arrogant.

And like was said, purgatory is a big seller for the RCC. My ex thought it was a wonderful thing to be able to look forward to purgatory and to staying out of hell. He just felt like he never did enough, though, and always wondered whether he'd actually make it to heaven.

I just couldn't imagine having that kind insecurity about my eternity.

[IowaLutheran]

I know plenty of RC and every one of them believes that there is no salvation outside of their church.

From my ex-boyfriend, to his priest, to his parents, his sister and his grandma, to the Catholics that I have dialog with even today...they all believe that I am not heaven-bound

If they believe that submission to the Roman pontiff is required for salvation, then they are not following the current teaching of their church.

It was previously their teaching that "no salvation outside the church" meant you had to submit to the Pope to be saved. Pope Boniface said this in Unam Sanctam in the 1300s.

Current RC teaching, as I understand it, maintains that there is still "no salvation outside the church" but that does not necessarily mean that the person must be a member of the RC church in order to be saved.

The various ways the RC church have interpreted "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" are described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/extra_ecclesiam_nulla_salus

[Melethiel]

I know a lot of RCs, and none of them doubts my Christianity...

[PowderedGold]

Isn't claiming to be the one true church the hallmark of a cult?