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nasa1
26th July 2007, 05:32 PM
1st Corthinians 15:12-28
But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he has put everything under his feet.

Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.





Do you think that G-d is trying to save everyone Today, or some possibly in the next age?



Matthew 12:31
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.



I wonder why Yeshua would say the age to come if forgiveness was not possible in the next age. So, I am thinking that forgiveness is possible in the next age - but what is the next age?

I think it was Pioneer who intelligently remarked that many phrases Yeshua used while on earth were not orginated by Him. I did some research and found that it was Rabbis before Yeshua that coined Gehenna and what it all entails. I find it amazing that Yeshua picked up their lingo and kept teaching it as truth. That is why I believe the Rabbinic interpretation of Gehenna - for some, it is eternal, for others, temporary. And yes, I think I can back that up (the temporary concept) with scripture (Matthew 5:24-26)




It is hard for me to think that forgiveness is only possible in this lifetime. What about those who only lived 20 years, or even 15 years? Surely a merciful G-d would not commit them to eternal hell-fire after just 15 or 20 years of life! G-ds love is so infinite that it must transcend time or ages, that it is always available, right up unto the great white throne judgement.



I know some might say I am teaching falsehood, and I can accept your criticism. But think of G-ds promise to Israel: surely that promise is not only for these times, is it? If it is, what about the millions of Israelites that have been on the earth over the centuries? I cannot believe a promise is only for a specific time period, and that nothing is offered or available before that - or even after that.

I look forward to your views.

nasa1

stone
26th July 2007, 05:35 PM
The parable of the wheat and tares makes it clear that not all will be saved.

nasa1
26th July 2007, 05:56 PM
Hi Stone,

I realize that not all will be saved, and I edited my first post so you might want to look at it again, fyi.

I am just pondering when the door will be shut. It seems to me that if G-d should give everyone a good chance to repent. I really do not think everyone has that good opportinity in this life.

I also think many reject Yeshua because they have not heard the true gospel message. Lots of people talkin salvation, not many preachin the simple truth.




nasa1

muffler dragon
26th July 2007, 05:59 PM
Hey nasa:

Have you ever heard of the tradition that a person pays the debt of all their sin upon their death?

nasa1
27th July 2007, 06:35 PM
Hey nasa:

Have you ever heard of the tradition that a person pays the debt of all their sin upon their death?



Is it a Noachide tradition? I have not heard of it, but can you provide any scriptures to help me understand your views?

I believe that the Bible teaches Yeshua paid the sin debt, that while we were yet sinners, Yeshua paid the debt and this is how we recieve forgiveness from G-d.

My problem is the time-frame of that forgiveness. G-d does not operate in our time-space.

Here is a small story to help you understand: I was reading a Christian magazine true story about a man who died in a plane crash when he was 18. He was severly burned in many places on his body. The magazine had a picture of his burned body, and his face today, at 40-ish.

He died in the hospital, and he was travelling down a dark path that had a light at the end of the tunnel. But when he realized he was moving away from the light, he cried out in horror, Save me, G-d, save me! and at that moment, he was in the presence of G-d, and he said it was wonderful!

Now, this young man did not know anything about Yeshua, but yet he was taken up into G-ds glory. G-d had mercy on this young man. How many more people have been saved at death, in this same manner?

It seems that forgiveness is available after death, or any time we cry out to Him with an honest heart. How could G-d turn away the cry of His creation?

NASA1

muffler dragon
27th July 2007, 06:59 PM
Is it a Noachide tradition?

No. It's Judaic.

I have not heard of it, but can you provide any scriptures to help me understand your views?

Isaiah 22
14. "And it was revealed in My ears, the Lord of Hosts; that this iniquity shall not be atoned for you until you die, said the Lord God of Hosts.

The tradition is held that this verse shows that death is the final atonement for a person's sins.

I believe that the Bible teaches Yeshua paid the sin debt, that while we were yet sinners, Yeshua paid the debt and this is how we recieve forgiveness from G-d.

It's the Jewish perspective that one doesn't need a mediator for the atonement of sin. G-d deals with each individual on a one-to-one basis.

My problem is the time-frame of that forgiveness. G-d does not operate in our time-space.

What do you mean?

Here is a small story to help you understand: I was reading a Christian magazine true story about a man who died in a plane crash when he was 18. He was severly burned in many places on his body. The magazine had a picture of his burned body, and his face today, at 40-ish.

He died in the hospital, and he was travelling down a dark path that had a light at the end of the tunnel. But when he realized he was moving [I]away from the light, he cried out in horror, Save me, G-d, save me! and at that moment, he was in the presence of G-d, and he said it was wonderful!

Now, this young man did not know anything about Yeshua, but yet he was taken up into G-ds glory. G-d had mercy on this young man. How many more people have been saved at death, in this same manner?

It seems that forgiveness is available after death, or any time we cry out to Him with an honest heart. How could G-d turn away the cry of His creation?

NASA1

I am not a follower of the Christian understanding of salvation. So, the story above presents the same ideal to me you ask in your question. But then again, I'm more or less a universalist (with some exceptions). ;)

Sephania
28th July 2007, 01:05 PM
Here is a small story to help you understand: I was reading a Christian magazine true story about a man who died in a plane crash when he was 18. He was severly burned in many places on his body. The magazine had a picture of his burned body, and his face today, at 40-ish.

He died in the hospital, and he was travelling down a dark path that had a light at the end of the tunnel. But when he realized he was moving away from the light, he cried out in horror, Save me, G-d, save me! and at that moment, he was in the presence of G-d, and he said it was wonderful!

Now, this young man did not know anything about Yeshua, but yet he was taken up into G-ds glory. G-d had mercy on this young man. How many more people have been saved at death, in this same manner?

It seems that forgiveness is available after death, or any time we cry out to Him with an honest heart. How could G-d turn away the cry of His creation?

NASA1Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify psalms 50:15

The Man cried out Save me G-d, Yeshua means Salvation. For those who in times of peril even if they never recognized it before, but do now that there is a G-d he promises to save them.

nasa1
31st July 2007, 07:14 PM
Praise G-d for His mercy - who blesses all who call on Him, whether they know of Yeshua or not!

I think if someone heard the gospel, and rejected it, the final outcome might be different, though.

However, when does someone these days truly hear the good news? Usually it is just hellfire and brimstone, to scare people.

nasa1

muffler dragon
31st July 2007, 08:23 PM
Praise G-d for His mercy - who blesses all who call on Him, whether they know of Yeshua or not!

I think if someone heard the gospel, and rejected it, the final outcome might be different, though.

How so?

I fit that very category.