Jesus-ing Up the Democratic Party

[Voegelin]

BeyondChron
San Francisco's Alternative OnLine Daily
by Tommi Avicolli-Mecca‚ Jul. 25‚ 2007


Democratic leaders have been worried of late that their party comes off a little too secular or even anti-religious. A recent poll revealed that only 26% of Americans believe the Democrats are religion-friendly. It’s convinced Democratic movers and shakers that they have to turn that perception around in order to win back the White House.

Mara Vanderslice, Democratic strategist and conservative Christian, has the solution: Bring back that old-time religion. Forget that feel-good, liberal talk about diversity or separation of church and state. The Christian majority is what counts. “Jesus-ing up the party,” as she puts it, is what’s going to win the highest office for the Democrats.

Vanderslice knows from experience that it works. Last year, she advised Joseph Heath Shuler in his bid for North Carolina’s 11th congressional district to Jesus up his campaign. He did. In a radio ad, Shuler confessed: “When I was in 8th grade, my mother gave me a note that read ‘Heath, make every decision as if I’m standing beside you, for when I’m not, Jesus Christ always is.’” It worked like a charm. Shuler was elected . . .

I understand why the Democrats are doing this.

Desperate times and all that. But it’s insulting to Atheists, Jews and others who don’t believe in Jesus. It’s a slap in the face to a multicultural society. The Democrats should be doing the right thing and taking a stand against the Republican Party’s routine of shoving their religion down voters’ throats . . .

http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/Jesus_ing_Up_the_Democratic_Party_4750.html
***********************************
Note: As far as I can determine, this "alternative" newspaper in San Francisco does not contain material unsuitable for this site. I clicked around, didn't find any photos or words which might be objectionable. That is, in my experience, unusual for an "alternative" left wing publication, especially one based where this one is. Just saying should someone explore further and report this post. . . I did due diligence . . .if I wasn't diligent enough, I'm all for pulling the thread. My intent was not to post a link to anything objectionable. A sad commentary on the state of one political faction in America when it is necessary to even post a disclaimer such as this, isn't it?

[meh]

It's already Jesusy in the Democratic party, thanks. He lives in the heart of all Christians who vote Democrat. I'm sure I'm not the only one who votes that way in part, specifically, because we feel their social programs are a lot more Christian than the other sides. :)

[GreenMunchkin]

Dude, why all the political threads? There's a whole forum for that stuff. This is about Christianity, not politics. Ideally, the two don't go hand in hand.

[Voegelin]

Dude, why all the political threads? There's a whole forum for that stuff. This is about Christianity, not politics. Ideally, the two don't go hand in hand.

As I have mentioned on another thread, I do not agree with you.

Is there a rule that politics cannot be mentioned in this sub-forum?

If so, what is to be discussed here? I am really curious.

How can the Great Commission be expressed non-politically? How can one evangalize without going into the polis? How can Christian morality and ethics be sucessfully spread without entering into the polis?

Why should conservative Christians not oppose that which goes against their faith in the public square?

Give me some idea where you are going here...I really don't have a clue. Western Civilization was built because Christians engaged the world, because Christianity was a political force. Fundamentalist Christians ended slavery. Christians fought Jim Crow.

Look at atheist China. They know being a Christian is a political statement. That is why priests and protestants are in prison over there.

If we don't discuss how our faith enters the world, what do we discuss?

What prompted me to post these few articles today was coming in here and seeing nearly every thread devoted to discussing changes at CF, the rules at CF, the mods at CF and even what an atheist forums was saying about CF. Figured it was time to "move on" and get something of substance rather than engage in what appears to me to be endless introspection. A forum should talk about more than itself.

And...btw...my name is not "dude".

[intricatic]

.....
How can the Great Commission be expressed non-politically? How can one evangalize without going into the polis? How can Christian morality and ethics be sucessfully spread without entering into the polis? The gospel is apolitical. It relies on the Lordship and sovereignty of God, not of man.

Why should conservative Christians not oppose that which goes against their faith in the public square? Because all of mankind is utterly corrupt. Politics are an expression of this fact.

Give me some idea where you are going here...I really don't have a clue. Western Civilization was built because Christians engaged the world, because Christianity was a political force. Fundamentalist Christians ended slavery. Christians fought Jim Crow. True.

Look at atheist China. They know being a Christian is a political statement. That is why priests and protestants are in prison over there.Communists think this. The Christians, I'm sure, think it's far more than a political statement.

If we don't discuss how our faith enters the world, what do we discuss?How does faith enter the world?

[GreenMunchkin]

As I have mentioned on another thread, I do not agree with you.

Is there a rule that politics cannot be mentioned in this sub-forum?

If so, what is to be discussed here? I am really curious.

How can the Great Commission be expressed non-politically? How can one evangalize without going into the polis? How can Christian morality and ethics be sucessfully spread without entering into the polis?

Why should conservative Christians not oppose that which goes against their faith in the public square?

Give me some idea where you are going here...I really don't have a clue. Western Civilization was built because Christians engaged the world, because Christianity was a political force. Fundamentalist Christians ended slavery. Christians fought Jim Crow.

Look at atheist China. They know being a Christian is a political statement. That is why priests and protestants are in prison over there.

If we don't discuss how our faith enters the world, what do we discuss?

What prompted me to post these few articles today was coming in here and seeing nearly every thread devoted to discussing changes at CF, the rules at CF, the mods at CF and even what an atheist forums was saying about CF. Figured it was time to "move on" and get something of substance rather than engage in what appears to me to be endless introspection. A forum should talk about more than itself.

And...btw...my name is not "dude".This isn't a sub-forum. It's a forum in its own right. You're arbitrarily attempting to alter its dynamic and landscape. There are other members to consider.

Why not ask Letalis to create a Politics sub-forum? We're gonna need a separate one for debate, also, anyway. But having all these political threads is misleading as to the forum's focus.

[Voegelin]

The gospel is apolitical. It relies on the Lordship and sovereignty of God, not of man.

Those are not identical things. The gospel is not apolitical. It takes political stands. It is not neutral. Everything is not accepted. We are commanded to do certain things and not do others. Where do we do them or not do them? For most of us, in the public square, in the polis.

How does faith enter the world?

In my case, my faith enters the world everyday. Who I choose to associate with, what products I find acceptable to purchase, how I treat those I do business with, what moral positions I support and which I oppose, how I vote to have my tax money directed and so on.

Perhaps I'm just missing something here. I know there are Christians who withdraw. I don't practice that myself of course but it is a legitimate Christian position with a history which goes back to the founding of the faith. Never been the position taken by the majority of the faithful but it is part of the faith--a needed part in my opinion. Is that what you are suggesting? Removal from the world?

[meh]

This isn't a sub-forum. It's a forum in its own right. You're arbitrarily attempting to alter its dynamic and landscape. There are other members to consider.

Why not ask Letalis to create a Politics sub-forum? We're gonna need a separate one for debate, also, anyway. But having all these political threads is misleading as to the forum's focus.
Seriously, Greenie. Don't change it on my account. It's not that big of a deal. If people want a space where it's conservative theologically/politically, that's fine. I'll groove on down the road. And I'm being totally serious. It's not a big deal. I'll still bug you in PMs :P

[Voegelin]

This isn't a sub-forum. It's a forum in its own right. You're arbitrarily attempting to alter its dynamic and landscape. There are other members to consider..

Hold on a minute here. I am expressing my views. I don't know you, I don't know Letitas and I don't know what "dynamic and landscape" you and others seek to maintain that I am "arbrarily attempting to alter".

I have no idea what "other members to consider" means as I have no idea what everyone wants said in here. I don't know who "other members" include. Some appreciate my comments as I have received reps. You obvious do not appreciate my comments.

Give me a list of rules and I'll follow them or not. Don't have those, give me a hint of what you want discussed in this forum. What you don't want discussed you have made clear. Tell me what you want.

[GreenMunchkin]

Seriously, Greenie. Don't change it on my account. It's not that big of a deal. If people want a space where it's conservative theologically/politically, that's fine. I'll groove on down the road. And I'm being totally serious. It's not a big deal. I'll still bug you in PMs :P:hug: From my perspective, too, though, sis. American politics are irrelevant to an English person. This is my home forum, so its suddenly being filled with American politics is annoying. If it's putting people off, that's unacceptable.

[Miss Shelby]

Desperate times and all that. But it’s insulting to Atheists, Jews and others who don’t believe in Jesus. It’s a slap in the face to a multicultural society. The Democrats should be doing the right thing and taking a stand against the Republican Party’s routine of shoving their religion down voters’ throats .I don't understand this. How does a Christian NOT make Jesus a part of their lives without including their politics? He's saying it's offensive to embrace Christianity [to other religions]--to me that says he saying it's better to be ashamed of the name of Christ.

[Voegelin]

:hug: From my perspective, too, though, sis. American politics are irrelevant to an English person. This is my home forum, so its suddenly being filled with American politics is annoying. If it's putting people off, that's unacceptable.

So what is it? American politics or all politics? OK to speak of the kidnapped Korean missionaries ? OK to speak of the to-do in the UK regarding the Catholic church and adoption?

[NewGuy101]

I don't understand this. How does a Christian NOT make Jesus a part of their lives without including their politics? He's saying it's offensive to embrace Christianity [to other religions]--to me that says he saying it's better to be ashamed of the name of Christ.
I concur :amen:

[GreenMunchkin]

So what is it? American politics or all politics? OK to speak of the kidnapped Korean missionaries ? OK to speak of the to-do in the UK regarding the Catholic church and adoption?I don't know. Am tired of arguing, to be honest. It's your forum, too, so you should be able to discuss whatever you want.

God bless. x

[vatuck]

Might I suggest that those who don't want to participate in any sort of "politics and conservative Christians" type thread just ignore it and not post. I do this with many of the threads. I love politics, but some of the threads I just am not interested in participating in. Just a suggestion.

[CyberPaladin]

I don't understand this. How does a Christian NOT make Jesus a part of their lives without including their politics? He's saying it's offensive to embrace Christianity [to other religions]--to me that says he saying it's better to be ashamed of the name of Christ.
That's something alot of us will never understand.

[MachZer0]

BeyondChron
San Francisco's Alternative OnLine Daily
by Tommi Avicolli-Mecca‚ Jul. 25‚ 2007


Democratic leaders have been worried of late that their party comes off a little too secular or even anti-religious. A recent poll revealed that only 26% of Americans believe the Democrats are religion-friendly. It’s convinced Democratic movers and shakers that they have to turn that perception around in order to win back the White House.

Mara Vanderslice, Democratic strategist and conservative Christian, has the solution: Bring back that old-time religion. Forget that feel-good, liberal talk about diversity or separation of church and state. The Christian majority is what counts. “Jesus-ing up the party,” as she puts it, is what’s going to win the highest office for the Democrats.

Vanderslice knows from experience that it works. Last year, she advised Joseph Heath Shuler in his bid for North Carolina’s 11th congressional district to Jesus up his campaign. He did. In a radio ad, Shuler confessed: “When I was in 8th grade, my mother gave me a note that read ‘Heath, make every decision as if I’m standing beside you, for when I’m not, Jesus Christ always is.’” It worked like a charm. Shuler was elected . . .

I understand why the Democrats are doing this.

Desperate times and all that. But it’s insulting to Atheists, Jews and others who don’t believe in Jesus. It’s a slap in the face to a multicultural society. The Democrats should be doing the right thing and taking a stand against the Republican Party’s routine of shoving their religion down voters’ throats . . .

http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/Jesus_ing_Up_the_Democratic_Party_4750.html
***********************************
Note: As far as I can determine, this "alternative" newspaper in San Francisco does not contain material unsuitable for this site. I clicked around, didn't find any photos or words which might be objectionable. That is, in my experience, unusual for an "alternative" left wing publication, especially one based where this one is. Just saying should someone explore further and report this post. . . I did due diligence . . .if I wasn't diligent enough, I'm all for pulling the thread. My intent was not to post a link to anything objectionable. A sad commentary on the state of one political faction in America when it is necessary to even post a disclaimer such as this, isn't it?
There does seem to be a move in the Democrats to drum up a sense of being religious in the Democrat party. Sort of like the way Hillary suddenly gets that southern drawl in front of predominantly black crowds in the South. I prefer candidates who are Christian, conservative Christian, when they are running for office and when they are not running as well.

[Ginny]

Dude, why all the political threads? There's a whole forum for that stuff. This is about Christianity, not politics. Ideally, the two don't go hand in hand.

Yeah, I can see how being pro-life needs to stay within the realms of religion. :scratch:

[Ginny]

Might I suggest that those who don't want to participate in any sort of "politics and conservative Christians" type thread just ignore it and not post. I do this with many of the threads. I love politics, but some of the threads I just am not interested in participating in. Just a suggestion.

I just thought of how so many people post "who cares?" type posts in so many threads...yet they have the time and make the time to post the comment. LOL

[Ginny]

And...btw...my name is not "dude".

Dude.
http://sp1.mm-a5.yimg.com/image/3260183697 (http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dfast%2520times%2520at%2520ridgemont%26fr2%3Dtab-web%26fr%3Db1ie7&w=270&h=180&imgurl=www.close-upfilm.com%2Fpictures%2FFast%2520Times%2520at%2520Ridgemont%2520High.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.close-upfilm.com%2Freviews%2Ff%2Ffasttimesatridgemonthigh.html&size=10.3kB&name=Fast+Times+at+Ridgemont+High.jpg&p=fast+times+at+ridgemont&type=jpeg&no=1&tt=1,991&oid=4e9734b15b63d77a&ei=UTF-8)

Duuuuude.

http://sp1.mm-a5.yimg.com/image/3105684114 (http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dbill%2Band%2Bted%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Db1ie7%26x%3Dwrt%26js%3D1%26ni%3D21&w=225&h=364&imgurl=www.technofile.com%2Fimages%2Fbill%26amp%3Bted_collection.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.technofile.com%2Fdvds%2Fbill%26amp%3Bted_set.html&size=51.2kB&name=bill+ted_collection.jpg&p=bill+and+ted&type=jpeg&no=5&tt=24,202&oid=2a6f7b1454142388&ei=UTF-8)

Riiiiiiiiiiiighteous.

[Ishida]

Well, sounds as long as it's geniune and not false. I think voting in presidential elections is a waste of time, a ritual at most considering how these last two elections went.

[Voegelin]

I prefer candidates who are Christian, conservative Christian, when they are running for office and when they are not running as well.

There you go again.

Mixing politics and religion is not a solution to our problems, mixing politics and religion is the problem.

;)

[Gregged]

How can the Great Commission be expressed non-politically? How can one evangalize without going into the polis? How can Christian morality and ethics be sucessfully spread without entering into the polis?

Why should conservative Christians not oppose that which goes against their faith in the public square?

Give me some idea where you are going here...I really don't have a clue. Western Civilization was built because Christians engaged the world, because Christianity was a political force. Fundamentalist Christians ended slavery. Christians fought Jim Crow.

Look at atheist China. They know being a Christian is a political statement. That is why priests and protestants are in prison over there.

If we don't discuss how our faith enters the world, what do we discuss?



No! The Great Commission was not to preach politics. It was to preach the Gospel.

Can you show me where Jesus brought partisan politics into preaching the Gospel? Or where we are told to actively get into government and make reforms from the inside?

That is Dominionism which is (for the most part) widespread in the US. Changing things politically so that the earth is ready for the return of Jesus.

I've heard reports from those who were high up in the Dominionism movement - that often churches ditch the prayer meeting to talk about the latest bill going through, or to protest march etc.

Where is that in the Bible?

Yes - vote by all means. But then do what we're told - to pray for our leaders, even if they're not the ones you voted for. Make the change through prayer, our witness and preaching the Gospel. Dominionism, the Republican party, and lots of posts on CF say "look at the US - we're doing the will of God in all that we do on the world stage." Really?!

Can you really talk about China as being atheist? The government, maybe. But all the people? Christianity is increasing in China. And in many of these non-Western countries, they see many more miracles that the US (or the West) does. How does that happen? Through politics?! No! Through the preaching of the Gospel.

Did Jesus say that His Kingdom is not of this world? Did He say to preach politics, or the Gospel?

If all Christians (myself included) through the centuries preached the Gospel more, prayed for our nations more and were more of a witness, rather than just talking politics, do you think things may be better?!

So, when you ask how can the Great Commission be expressed non-politically - look at how it was done in the Bible! Through preaching of the Word - with signs following to confirm it. Little of that happens in the US or the West today.

[Voegelin]

Can you show me where Jesus brought partisan politics into preaching the Gospel? Or where we are told to actively get into government and make reforms from the inside?

I don't get it. You mean we're supposed to sit back and let taxpayer funded abortion on demand happen? We're supposed to not oppose it when Senator Obama, in a speech last week, said government workers should usurp the natural role of parents and give "age appropiate" sex education to kindergarteners? We are supposed to let sleaze merchants, drug dealers, pimps have a free ride? Pass no laws what-so-ever restricting anything? Or only speak up at the ballot box every two years? Be quiet the rest of the time? It is OK for Christians to allow their country to become a Sodom and Gomorrah?

The Catholic church teaches Christians have a duty to be engaged based upon, among other things, the fourth commandment. Read it here if you wish (http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a4.htm).

That is Dominionism which is (for the most part) widespread in the US. Changing things politically so that the earth is ready for the return of Jesus.

Then the founders of America were Dominionists. The revolution was preached from the pulpit (http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel03.html). For the first 80 years of the Republic, on Sunday, the House of Representatives became a church. Below is a sermon John Hargrove preached in Congress in 1805. Not once, but several times. President Jefferson, one of our most theologically liberal Presidents, heard it at least once:

A Sermon on The Second Coming of Christ (http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=817&chapter=69469&layout=html)

Jefferson himself paid the Rev David Allen to preach during his re-election campaign of 1804.

These were not Republicans doing this. The party didn't exist. They were Federalists and what became the Democratic party.

Want a 20th century example? Scroll down to THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD -- January 23, 1935 (http://www.ssa.gov/history/longsen.html)


There you have a populist Democrat quoting at length from Nehemiah and citing Ecclesiastes, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Was the Senator from Louisiana out of line to mix politics and religion? The bible belt elected him. In landslides. The Christians of his state certainly did not believe religion and politics should not mix.

Yes - vote by all means. But then do what we're told - to pray for our leaders, even if they're not the ones you voted for. Make the change through prayer, our witness and preaching the Gospel. Fine. But its not either/or. And if the politicians who do not want the Gospel preach are not constantly opposed (elections are only part of it), there may be legal sanctions for preaching the gospel. We already see signs of this in the EU and Canada where speech has been criminalized by "hate speech" law. Any Christians who believes they can simply show up at the polls on election day and select a candidate who will protect their faith and advance Christian morality and ethics is going to be disappointed. That candidate won't be on the ballot because they have not participated in the debate which selects the candidates.

Have you read the full text of the OP? Secularists and those hostile to the faith are certainly engaged in politics. So is the Democratic Party. Why should conservative Christians defer to them? Why should we allow them to create the laws under which we live unchallenged?

[Gregged]

I don't get it. You mean we're supposed to sit back and let taxpayer funded abortion on demand happen? We're supposed to not oppose it when Senator Obama, in a speech last week, said government workers should usurp the natural role of parents and give "age appropiate" sex education to kindergarteners? We are supposed to let sleaze merchants, drug dealers, pimps have a free ride? Pass no laws what-so-ever restricting anything? Or only speak up at the ballot box every two years? Be quiet the rest of the time? It is OK for Christians to allow their country to become a Sodom and Gomorrah?

On some of these news stories, I think you know from the news section that all is not as was reported - not that I am so interested in your politics :hug:

I didn't say not vote. I said vote. But prayer does more than your protest.

Let me ask you... will politics ever bring peace? Will it stop the drug dealers, pimps etc? Because it hasn't so far. The Bible tells us that Sodom was destroyed for much more than it's homosexuality. And some of those things are where some countries are now.

Or... will preaching the Gospel, prayer and our witness be more effective than politics?


The Catholic church teaches Christians have a duty to be engaged based upon, among other things, the fourth commandment. Read it here if you wish (http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a4.htm).

Well, in this case I am a little too fundamentalist to be posting here ;)



Then the founders of America were Dominionists.
Yes! And they wanted to build the new Atlantis.



The revolution was preached from the pulpit (http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel03.html).
Yes! And were they doing God's will??? Some have argued that the revolution was not in line with the Word to submit to leaders - and pray for them. So to me, that argument that because politics was preached from the pulpit it is God's way, doesn't wash at all.




There you have a populist Democrat quoting at length from Nehemiah and citing Ecclesiastes, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
Firstly, I'm not interested in Democrat or Republican... It means nothing to me. It wasn't so very long ago that the Republican party became the party of choice for "evangelical Christians". Anyone can quote the Bible to gain a vote.



Was the Senator from Louisiana out of line to mix politics and religion? The bible belt elected him. In landslides. The Christians of his state certainly did not believe religion and politics should not mix.
No, because from the pulpit it has been preached to be Dominionists - and not to preach the Gospel.



Fine. But its not either/or. And if the politicians who do not want the Gospel preach are not constantly opposed (elections are only part of it), there may be legal sanctions for preaching the gospel. We already see signs of this in the EU and Canada where speech has been criminalized by "hate speech" law. Any Christians who believes they can simply show up at the polls on election day and select a candidate who will protect their faith and advance Christian morality and ethics is going to be disappointed. That candidate won't be on the ballot because they have not participated in the debate which selects the candidates.
Do you really believe that George Bush stands for all things Christian, that the US is a Christian country and that it's morality should be spread to the world?


Have you read the full text of the OP? Secularists and those hostile to the faith are certainly engaged in politics. So is the Democratic Party. Why should conservative Christians defer to them? Why should we allow them to create the laws under which we live unchallenged?
Yes, others are involved in politics. So were they in Jesus' day. Did Jesus go around being involved in politics, or did He preach the Gospel because He knew that His Kingdom is not of this world? Did Jesus think that prayer, faith, preaching the Gospel was greater, or that being a political voice was?

There have been many things, including war averted by people praying. Not people bringing political change.

It's up to you. If you are so keen on being active through political change, check to see that you are spending more time praying, spreading the Gospel and being a witness than you are being politically active.

And I'm still waiting on Biblcal examples of where we should be politically active over and above pressing for political reform. Thanks :)

[MachZer0]

No! The Great Commission was not to preach politics. It was to preach the Gospel.

Can you show me where Jesus brought partisan politics into preaching the Gospel? Or where we are told to actively get into government and make reforms from the inside?

That is Dominionism which is (for the most part) widespread in the US. Changing things politically so that the earth is ready for the return of Jesus.

I've heard reports from those who were high up in the Dominionism movement - that often churches ditch the prayer meeting to talk about the latest bill going through, or to protest march etc.

Where is that in the Bible?

Yes - vote by all means. But then do what we're told - to pray for our leaders, even if they're not the ones you voted for. Make the change through prayer, our witness and preaching the Gospel. Dominionism, the Republican party, and lots of posts on CF say "look at the US - we're doing the will of God in all that we do on the world stage." Really?!

Can you really talk about China as being atheist? The government, maybe. But all the people? Christianity is increasing in China. And in many of these non-Western countries, they see many more miracles that the US (or the West) does. How does that happen? Through politics?! No! Through the preaching of the Gospel.

Did Jesus say that His Kingdom is not of this world? Did He say to preach politics, or the Gospel?

If all Christians (myself included) through the centuries preached the Gospel more, prayed for our nations more and were more of a witness, rather than just talking politics, do you think things may be better?!

So, when you ask how can the Great Commission be expressed non-politically - look at how it was done in the Bible! Through preaching of the Word - with signs following to confirm it. Little of that happens in the US or the West today.If we follow your advice, none of our leaders would be the ones we voted for, because nobody we would vote for should be running for office in the first place. Those of us who believe Christians should participate in the political process beleive we are putting outr faith in action. We can preach the Gospel, pray for the nation, be witnesses and participate in the political process as well. Those things are not mutually exclusive. and we have no Biblical mandate to make them so.

[Gregged]

Ah - MachZer0 - someone else from the news forum ^_^ :wave:

If we follow your advice, none of our leaders would be the ones we voted for,
:scratch: ^_^


because nobody we would vote for should be running for office in the first place.
Ah - so, by that you claim that Bush (and x number of previous presidents) are/were Christian. Okkkaaaaay ;)



Those of us who believe Christians should participate in the political process beleive we are putting outr faith in action. We can preach the Gospel, pray for the nation, be witnesses and participate in the political process as well. Those things are not mutually exclusive. and we have no Biblical mandate to make them so.
I didn't say not to vote. But what is your greater amount of time spent on? Prayer/spiritual warfare/preaching the Gospel...... or politics?

Keep in touch with politics. Then pray!

Where in the Bible are people involved in politics? I know that there are those in this thread - and indeed this forum is not sola scriptura, so I don't expect an answer. I am neither Conservative or super strict Fundamentalist. But I will choose God's word - and try to adhere to it, often failing... A big part of that is prayer, not politics.

[MachZer0]

Ah - MachZer0 - someone else from the news forum Irrelevant
Ah - so, by that you claim that Bush (and x number of previous presidents) are/were Christian. Okkkaaaaay Your point?


I didn't say not to vote. But what is your greater amount of time spent on? Prayer/spiritual warfare/preaching the Gospel...... or politics?Are you suggesting that you are more spiritual and thus more approved by God because you shun politics? Are you also saying that those in politics who oppose Christian principles don't need to hear the Gospel? By the way, do you remember when Joshua was on his knees praying after defeat, and what he was told? He was told to act. There is a time for prayer and a time for action and while we are acting, we can also be praying.

Where in the Bible are people involved in politics? I know that there are those in this thread - and indeed this forum is not sola scriptura, so I don't expect an answer. I am neither Conservative or super strict Fundamentalist. But I will choose God's word - and try to adhere to it, often failing... A big part of that is prayer, not politics.David, Solomon, Joshua, Moses, and on, and on, and on.

[Gregged]

Irrelevant
Not for me because I know your views on many things ;)


Your point?
A little more thought, maybe rather than me spelling it out.


Are you suggesting that you are more spiritual and thus more approved by God because you shun politics?
No. Where did I ever claim that? Read my other posts. Look at how Dominionist churches go, and see whether God or politics becomes the priority. I am saying that people whose focus is on prayer are doing the better - and right thing.



Are you also saying that those in politics who oppose Christian principles don't need to hear the Gospel?
:scratch: I don't know how you reach that conclusion!!! ^_^


By the way, do you remember when Joshua was on his knees praying after defeat, and what he was told? He was told to act. There is a time for prayer and a time for action and while we are acting, we can also be praying.

David, Solomon, Joshua, Moses, and on, and on, and on.
Yes - as a direct instruction from God. They were seeking God. God was their god! Are you saying your policital party is doing God's will?

[Ginny]

Hoarders of Christ, I tell ya.


"Keep politics and things of religious matters separate", but vote for someone who has total control over "religious related matters".