Is this what we've come to?

[insaneinthebrain]

It is now okay to post anti-Israel hate in the MJ forum with no repercussions?

It now okay for a bunch of Gentiles from various Christian backgrounds to tell a Jewish man he's no longer Jewish simply because he attends an Anglican church?

This forum sickens me...

[cyberlizard]

where's that

[Ivy]

It now okay for a bunch of Gentiles from various Christian backgrounds to tell a Jewish man he's no longer Jewish simply because he attends an Anglican church?

This forum sickens me...

Yeah, I'm looking around for the Pepto-Bismol myself :sick:

It's hard to comprehend such unbelievable presumption.

[ChavaK]

I must admit I am guilty of responding to the anti-Israel
post. Perhaps the best thing to do is to ignore these
people, let the thread die, and let them go post their
garbage somewhere else.....

[Charles YTK]

Yes and you have a person in here who comes to refute the scriptures and denies Yeshua is messiah and they are protected. When I spoke against him and said his posts denying the validity of Yeshua were antichrist doctrine (definition proved by Johns epistles) I was repremanded. This is the new and improved MJ.

[christianmomof3]

So are there not yet any forum specific rules?
I have seen discussion about them but it gets confusing and I have no idea if any FSRs have actually been set up yet.
For me, I would want a forum specific rule in MJ that states something like:
Here in the MJ forum we support the Jews and we support Israel and any posts that do not support the Jews and Israel will not be allowed in this forum.

[ContraMundum]

For me, I would want a forum specific rule in MJ that states something like:
Here in the MJ forum we support the Jews and we support Israel and any posts that do not support the Jews and Israel will not be allowed in this forum.




I think that would be splendid- but hard to moderate. Sometimes supporting Israel and the Jews sounds like being critical of them. For example, the recent immoral behaviour of a certain Israeli politician should be fair game to be critical about- but someone might think it is against Israel to mention it.

Just a thought.

I do like your idea though- a lot.

[insaneinthebrain]

So are there not yet any forum specific rules?
I have seen discussion about them but it gets confusing and I have no idea if any FSRs have actually been set up yet.
For me, I would want a forum specific rule in MJ that states something like:
Here in the MJ forum we support the Jews and we support Israel and any posts that do not support the Jews and Israel will not be allowed in this forum.


We have rules, but the membership can edit them, so we've got people who aren't Messianic editing out the rules they violate. :(

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37069093&postcount=21
How about if we remove contra from the "approved list" and from modding in MJ.

That would solve a LOT of problems!

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37069329&postcount=23

I agree with #21, and when the time comes to vote on mods, we can vote to have him removed fully.

We've obviously reached a level of hypocritical holiness in this forum that I can no longer support. I don't claim to be so bold as to speak for God, but I honestly don't feel his presence in anything I've seen here since the 7-7-7 reforms. Doesn't the internet have enough garbage without a so-called Christian forum contributing more?

[nasa1]

It is now okay to post anti-Israel hate in the MJ forum with no repercussions?

It now okay for a bunch of Gentiles from various Christian backgrounds to tell a Jewish man he\'s no longer Jewish simply because he attends an Anglican church?

This forum sickens me...



One thing that should not be allowed is to attack a person\'s race. No matter what kind of church anyone attends, that will never change who they are in the flesh - if you are Jewish, being an Anglican Christian will never change that!

The first pope was a Jewish man! No matter what church you belong to, it will never change who you are in the flesh.

nasa1

[Wags]

Questions about the ethnicity of members here should not be raised.

Jew and Gentile are supposed to be ONE in Messiah. If someone is not messainic, they should have the same posting restrictions as anyone else who is not messianic - regardless of their ethnicity.

That doesn't mean they aren't welcome - just like any other chrisitans they can fellowship or ask questions, but they should not be allowed to debate in the messianic forum.

"Traditional" Jews should be allowed the same "rights" as the non-messianic christians. (Questions, fellowship, no debate).

[ChavaK]

We have rules, but the membership can edit them, so we've got people who aren't Messianic editing out the rules they violate. :(

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37069093&postcount=21


http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37069329&postcount=23



We've obviously reached a level of hypocritical holiness in this forum that I can no longer support. I don't claim to be so bold as to speak for God, but I honestly don't feel his presence in anything I've seen here since the 7-7-7 reforms. Doesn't the internet have enough garbage without a so-called Christian forum contributing more?

I am shocked to read these comments about CM, and
even more shocked to see them repeated here.
For what's it's worth, I think CM is one of the most
intelligent, even minded people on the forum- a
man who lives his faith.

[Talmidah]

I am shocked to read these comments about CM, and
even more shocked to see them repeated here.
For what's it's worth, I think CM is one of the most
intelligent, even minded people on the forum- a
man who lives his faith.I completely agree with Chava's words here. This is a man of integrity who has been attacked over and over in this forum. I may disagree with him on theological issues, but I also have nothing but respect for him.

[ContraMundum]

Questions about the ethnicity of members here should not be raised.

Jew and Gentile are supposed to be ONE in Messiah. If someone is not messainic, they should have the same posting restrictions as anyone else who is not messianic - regardless of their ethnicity.

That doesn't mean they aren't welcome - just like any other chrisitans they can fellowship or ask questions, but they should not be allowed to debate in the messianic forum.

"Traditional" Jews should be allowed the same "rights" as the non-messianic christians. (Questions, fellowship, no debate).


Back to the bad old days?

The problem with that view is that only a couple (maybe *three*) people liked that idea, which is why people were begging the staff to change it to be more open. I must have recieved 15 PMs a week about that, so I can't imagine what the others got.

In other words, that plan didn't work.

On the other hand, it's obvious this new plan isn't working either.

We almost had it right until 7/7/7. We were on the right path. Posters were generally happier, although it needed a little more opening to be sure to allow our non-trin and Jewish friends to post.

[christianmomof3]

Back to the bad old days?

The problem with that view is that only a couple (maybe *three*) people liked that idea, which is why people were begging the staff to change it to be more open.
In other words, that plan didn't work.


It was not working before. I don't think the new rules have been established yet. I hope they are not the same as the old ones.

[Ivy]

I am shocked to read these comments about CM, and
even more shocked to see them repeated here.
For what's it's worth, I think CM is one of the most
intelligent, even minded people on the forum- a
man who lives his faith.

I am shocked, too. I had always thought better of each & every person on this forum than that.

:sigh: Boy.

[visionary]

We have rules, but the membership can edit them, so we've got people who aren't Messianic editing out the rules they violate. :(

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37069093&postcount=21


http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37069329&postcount=23



We've obviously reached a level of hypocritical holiness in this forum that I can no longer support. I don't claim to be so bold as to speak for God, but I honestly don't feel his presence in anything I've seen here since the 7-7-7 reforms. Doesn't the internet have enough garbage without a so-called Christian forum contributing more?
It may be my fault for starting the "let's have Contra removed from modship" but I have since retracted that thought and statement because it isn't his mod ship that I had and do have difficulty with. As far as I know, his modmanship has been decent and fair to all concerned.

The original reason that I wanted to have his modship removed was I thought he would then be less inclined to post in this area of the forum. It is not his imput that I rejected, but his attitude to other posters. He would give the "poo poo" to their statements, and call them strawmen, he would inform the other posters that they were not worthy of his knowledge, they would need to learn "church father" stuff before they could receive the knowledge of what he is telling them, they are facists in their defense positions and on went the belittling and insulting comments.

For these character flaws, he has ruffled feathers, caused flaming reports, and flaming reactions.

Do this have anything to do with his jewish blood?.... NO. Does this have to do with undermining MJ members? YES

Respect is necessary to all posters. Any poster comments regarding the post of another, should refrain from insulting, belittling, undermining, or other high handed remarks. If posters post does not edify, define, clarify, substanciate the personal favored position or refute the other post with quality, serious presentation, and if necessary the use of other writers quotes, then they should be reported.

I think that MJ should rule their own forum. They should have an area where they define and clarify a stance or position that must be upheld within their corner, so that they can peacefully post.

[jgonz]

I completely agree Vis.

[ContraMundum]

OK...well, if you're allowed to hijack the thread to yet another "anti-Contra" thread....then this time I'll respond in public.

It may be my fault for starting the "let's have Contra removed from modship" but I have since retracted that thought and statement because it isn't his mod ship that I had and do have difficulty with. As far as I know, his modmanship has been decent and fair to all concerned.

I completely respect and appreciate that comment.

The original reason that I wanted to have his modship removed was I thought he would then be less inclined to post in this area of the forum. It is not his imput that I rejected, but his attitude to other posters. He would give the "poo poo" to their statements, and call them strawmen, he would inform the other posters that they were not worthy of his knowledge, they would need to learn "church father" stuff before they could receive the knowledge of what he is telling them, they are facists in their defense positions and on went the belittling and insulting comments.

I'm sorry my words in defence of the mainstream MJ position were taken that way.

I will answer in my defense. I felt quite provoked. I was more than happy, and even asked publically thrice, to be left out of that discussion. However, a number of posters (three, actually) wrote to me and asked me to defend the mainstream MJ position in that thread.

I did so, reluctantly, knowing that the thread would devolve, and I stated as such quite early, and it did.

I defended the mainstream position the only way I knew how- with scripture, tradition, and history. This is a foreign approach to some, but it has the same results yet with a far more sure foundation. It dispels the myths promoted by the new religions and proves that the earliest Jewish Christians were Torah observant and that it is ok for others to do likewise.

Then I was called some pretty horrible things by those who deny the mainstream position. At that point, all respect for those people was lost by me and the gloves were off.

I was lied about- often. Off that thread and on. I was lied about- that's really offensive. You few lied about me.

I believe, and so do others here, that you singled me out because:

a) I'm a Jew, and yet I don't fit into what those few think I should be.

b) I'm also an educated Christian who has things that some find too challenging.

c) I'm passionate and committed to truth and I go after errors masquerading as truth with the zeal fitting of a religious man.

I'm sorry if I am passionate about my positions, but I've always been one who can't stomach lies about me, my beliefs, or my friends.

I'm as passionate about my beliefs as the more radical restorationists are about theirs.

I have since told those posters who pushed me forward to fight their own battles, and that if they can't defend their mainstream positions well enough they should go and equip themselves. I won't be fooled and set up again.

For these character flaws, he has ruffled feathers, caused flaming reports, and flaming reactions.

I don't think I have actual character flaws, and have never accused anyone here of having actual character flaws or faulty blood.

I wish you could have reciprocated.

Do this have anything to do with his jewish blood?.... NO. Does this have to do with undermining MJ members? YES

I only sought to defend the accepted MJ position from the snipes and mis-conceptions of the more radical positions.

My reward from the few was to call me a self-hating Jew, call me anti-MJ, and call my charater "flawed".

However, MOST MJs supported me and showered me with compliments and rep points...something I'm eternally grateful for. Those MJs will always be my friends and I love them with all my heart. Such support both on and off the boards has kept me from despairing.


Respect is necessary to all posters. Any poster comments regarding the post of another, should refrain from insulting, belittling, undermining, or other high handed remarks. If posters post does not edify, define, clarify, substanciate the personal favored position or refute the other post with quality, serious presentation, and if necessary the use of other writers quotes, then they should be reported.

I really don't like the way I have been singled out by yourself over this, yet my blood has been libelled, my culture ridiculed, my character called into question and my integreity questioned by others, including yourself, who yet remain to be chastised.

The difference is, I'm not calling for the character assasins and smear campaigners to be kicked out of the forum- although any other forum would have disposed of them instantly!

Just because someone is different doesn't make them fodder for your war. I respect the fact that the few who are different and who seem borderline to me should be allowed to post here.

I want those few MJs who oppose the mainstream MJ viewpoint, even with unbalanced agression, to stay.

YET- those few do not think people who defend MJism's central core positions should be allowed! How odd!

As far as I can tell, there are only three posters on this forum who have actively engaged in this smear campaign, and as far as I can tell, it's only those three who I have defended myself against with equal veracity (without the racial slurs and actual character assasinations).

Your complaints about my "character flaws" (which, incidentaly, make your post a clear rules violation) stem from my reaction to those awful words. Those awful words were from a *misconception* about and me and/or my beliefs.

You three all owe me a huge apology. I don't expect one though, and I won't be asking for one either.

I just want to be heard and given the fair justice you say I give others.

[Ivy]

Then I was called some pretty horrible things by those who deny the mainstream position.

I was lied about- often. Off that thread and on. I was lied about- that's really offensive. You few lied about me.


I really don't like the way I have been singled out by yourself over this, yet my blood has been libelled, my culture ridiculed, my character called into question and my integreity questioned by others, including yourself



All these happenings certainly don't sound like the "respect" that is due to "all posters," do they, Contra? :scratch:

I'm sorry you have been treated this way and I admire your integrity. :thumbsup:

[Ivy]

I'd also like to make a point about negative perceptions of other people.

A couple years ago, I was part of another forum (previous to this one), and one of the posters there really bugged me. She came across to me as arrogant and know-it-all, and I was starting to cherish a real dislike of her in my heart.

Then one day, I found out that English was not her native language, and then I knew the real reason why she sounded abrupt to me.

Now, I know that English is Contra's native language, but sometimes there are still differences in culture, family background, communication style etc.

Not to mention that writing is just a harsher medium of communication by nature......it's *very easy to superimpose a bad tone on someone's writing based on our own tension level with the subject. I've done it myself many times.

I'm simply saying, take negative perceptions with a whopping grain of salt.....that person may be a wonderful human being in realtime.

[simchat_torah]

Questions about the ethnicity of members here should not be raised.

Jew and Gentile are supposed to be ONE in Messiah. If someone is not messainic, they should have the same posting restrictions as anyone else who is not messianic - regardless of their ethnicity.

That doesn't mean they aren't welcome - just like any other chrisitans they can fellowship or ask questions, but they should not be allowed to debate in the messianic forum.

"Traditional" Jews should be allowed the same "rights" as the non-messianic christians. (Questions, fellowship, no debate).
The major problem with your position here is that the "icon" on the CF forums does not reflect race, but rather religion (or denomination). One who has the "mogan david" icon selected is Jewish by religion. This isn't even getting into the complications of the term "Jewish" which reflects both race and creed, but strictly from a CF perspective, one who has the Jewish icon selected IS JEWISH by religion. Moreover, Messianic Judaism claims to be a legitimate expression OF JUDAISM, yet you want to ban (at least certain "rights" as you put it) those of the Jewish faith from posting in your own forums? The very religion you borrow from, the very religion you proclaim to be a legitimate sect within, you want to ban those from being able to freely post in a Messianic Jewish forum?




Could I buy hypocricy for a thousand Alex?

Don't get me wrong, I know you're arguing that no one should judge Contra, and I agree. However, within that slight perception, you in turn argue against legitimate Jews from being able to post freely.

I was here when Pray4Isrel first helped forge this section of the CF forums. Jews were given full rights to post in this section of the forum, and in fact there was a wonderful section stickid at the top where Jews could even form specific debates with Messianics. I was a messianic at the time, and enjoyed the lively spirited debates held in that part of the forum. Moreover, I NEVER felt attacked or forced to defend my beliefs if a Jewish individual questioned/debated something in the normal section.

Now, I can fully see having certain rules apply in the main section of posts. Things such as the messiahship of your messiah, anti-israel/antisemetic comments, etc. But to block Jews from posting freely only seems entirely hypocritical to me. And scary. And it has been this way for a couple of years, and quite quickly the Jews disappeared from the forums. At least a good chunk of them did.

my 2 cents.

[Ivy]

The major problem with your position here is that the "icon" on the CF forums does not reflect race, but rather religion (or denomination).

I agree that this is a problem too. There is a lot of ambiguity about people's true identity, and this creates many problems in discussions.

I carried the scroll for a brief time, but I ran into the problem of one or two people on the site asking me to "tell me more about your people." They thought I was Jewish and that I could inform them. I couldn't.



Moreover, Messianic Judaism claims to be a legitimate expression OF JUDAISM, yet you want to ban (at least certain "rights" as you put it) those of the Jewish faith from posting in your own forums? The very religion you borrow from, the very religion you proclaim to be a legitimate sect within, you want to ban those from being able to freely post in a Messianic Jewish forum?

This was exactly my concern when I first came on this forum, and I still have that concern. However, one of the long-time members PM-ed me at that time explaining that during the era of more freedom, that there came to be a lot of anti-missionary activity going on, and that, in his words, "Scores of people fell away from faith." Maybe there is some way to prevent this kind of problem from happening again?

I perfectly understand that Messianics want to protect people from falling away from faith in Yeshua....faith in Yeshua is regarded as a very precious thing, and I know those who are Jewish by birth sometimes pay a high price for that faith.

[visionary]

Do have any easy answer on how to make that delineation.... there is a thread code invite which reflects whether this is a race discussion or a religious discussion and what type of posters are allowed to respond.

On the left side of the thread are various icons for the various types which is for sex, religions, and bloodlines. That way the OP is in control of the type of environment he/she wished to have this thread addressed in.

[Ivy]

On the left side of the thread are two types of codes, that which is for sex, religions, and bloodlines. That way the OP is control of the type of environment he/she wished to have this thread addressed in.

That might be a reasonably good solution.

I like other people to know who they're talking to when they're talking to me, and I like to have a realistic picture of them too.

[ChavaK]

I agree that this is a problem too. There is a lot of ambiguity about people's true identity, and this creates many problems in discussions.

I carried the scroll for a brief time, but I ran into the problem of one or two people on the site asking me to "tell me more about your people." They thought I was Jewish and that I could inform them. I couldn't.


I wish there was an icon for messianic gentiles-
because over and over I have seen the same
thing happen as you have described. People think
they are coming to Jews to clarify what Jews or
Judaism has to say, and they have no clue they
are not speaking with Jews. The posters tend
not to clarify this either...





This was exactly my concern when I first came on this forum, and I still have that concern. However, one of the long-time members PM-ed me at that time explaining that during the era of more freedom, that there came to be a lot of anti-missionary activity going on, and that, in his words, "Scores of people fell away from faith." Maybe there is some way to prevent this kind of problem from happening again?

I perfectly understand that Messianics want to protect people from falling away from faith in Yeshua....faith in Yeshua is regarded as a very precious thing, and I know those who are Jewish by birth sometimes pay a high price for that faith.

Having a debate or discussion or clarifying an issue
does not mean it is an anti-missionary " attack". I
also don't know why any anti-missionaries would
come to this forum since the vast majority of the
posters are not Jewish. Or are you referring to
"anti-missionary" as some one who is attempting
to convince a messianic to return to "normative"
Christianity?
If someone is easily persuaded on a forum to
change their religous beliefs, I would suggest
that they didn't have much religous faith to
begin with.
:wave:

[simchat_torah]

This was exactly my concern when I first came on this forum, and I still have that concern. However, one of the long-time members PM-ed me at that time explaining that during the era of more freedom, that there came to be a lot of anti-missionary activity going on, and that, in his words, "Scores of people fell away from faith."
This is totally baseless and untrue.

Other than insaneinthebrain and Pray4Isrel (And they both can attest to what I'm about to say), I have been around longer than most anyone else here. No one... NO ONE other than myself and Talmidah have converted to Judaism. Moreover, I had always attended a synagogue and never called a messianic congregation my home, and Talmidah never truly was "messianic", she was just searching at the time.

There was 1... count it, ONE Jew who openly debated the messiahship of Jesus at the time, and he was kind and kept his debates specifically to the debate section. In fact, I was the one who debated him ;) He was respectful, kind and was only around for maybe less than 6 months.

This whole argument that was PM'ed to you (and I can imagine only a couple of people who would have sent it to you on these forums) was essentially used to cut Jews off from posting freely.

-Yafet

[ContraMundum]

On the left side of the thread are various icons for the various types which is for sex, religions, and bloodlines. That way the OP is in control of the type of environment he/she wished to have this thread addressed in.

I don't think information or conversation control has ever made the forum interesting or friendlier. Simply put, when one puts a thread out there....one should expect all kinds of responses. If one wants only a certain kind of response and they didn't get it, they can request a thread closure or deletion.

[ContraMundum]

How clever is this lady!?


I'd also like to make a point about negative perceptions of other people.

A couple years ago, I was part of another forum (previous to this one), and one of the posters there really bugged me. She came across to me as arrogant and know-it-all, and I was starting to cherish a real dislike of her in my heart.

Then one day, I found out that English was not her native language, and then I knew the real reason why she sounded abrupt to me.

Now, I know that English is Contra's native language, but sometimes there are still differences in culture, family background, communication style etc.

Not to mention that writing is just a harsher medium of communication by nature......it's *very easy to superimpose a bad tone on someone's writing based on our own tension level with the subject. I've done it myself many times.

I'm simply saying, take negative perceptions with a whopping grain of salt.....that person may be a wonderful human being in realtime.

Amen and Amen and Amen!

Thank you for reminding us all of this.

I'm taking this on board again.

[Talmidah]

This is totally baseless and untrue.

Other than insaneinthebrain and Pray4Isrel (And they both can attest to what I'm about to say), I have been around longer than most anyone else here. No one... NO ONE other than myself and Talmidah have converted to Judaism. Moreover, I had always attended a synagogue and never called a messianic congregation my home, and Talmidah never truly was "messianic", she was just searching at the time.

There was 1... count it, ONE Jew who openly debated the messiahship of Jesus at the time, and he was kind and kept his debates specifically to the debate section. In fact, I was the one who debated him ;) He was respectful, kind and was only around for maybe less than 6 months.

This whole argument that was PM'ed to you (and I can imagine only a couple of people who would have sent it to you on these forums) was essentially used to cut Jews off from posting freely.

-YafetThis is true and I was always open with the fact that I studied Judaism throughout high school with the intention of converting once I reached 18 years old. Life changed, I went away to school, became a parent and became a Christian, then Messianic, but always searching for where I really belonged. I have said over and over here that nothing here at CF made me go back to Judaism. In fact, when I left Christianity and Messianism, there weren't any so-called "anti-missionaries" here. There really wouldn't be much reason for anti-missionaries to devote much time here because they have no interest in getting gentiles to convert to Judaism and there are very few Jewish Messianics anyway. And after I converted, I always (and simchat_torah and iitb remember, I'm sure), prefaced posts with things like "I'm not messianic, but here is a brief description of that holiday from a Jewish POV." I never tried to "convert" anyone or deceive anyone. S_T has also been transparent during his journey toward conversion. So, I'm curious as to these scores of people who have fallen away because of antimissionaries. Who are they?

[Ivy]

Having a debate or discussion or clarifying an issue
does not mean it is an anti-missionary " attack". I
also don't know why any anti-missionaries would
come to this forum since the vast majority of the
posters are not Jewish. Or are you referring to
"anti-missionary" as some one who is attempting
to convince a messianic to return to "normative"
Christianity?
If someone is easily persuaded on a forum to
change their religous beliefs, I would suggest
that they didn't have much religous faith to
begin with.
:wave:

I don't remember that person referring to it as an "attack".

What I believe this person meant by an "anti-missionary"--and what my understanding of the term thus far is-- is a person who attempts to persuade a Jewish-born person who has come to faith in Yeshua, to abandon that belief and return to traditional Judaism.

And it's true, if most of the posters here are not Jewish-born, I wouldn't see any point in "anti-missionaries" coming to this forum. My understanding is that Jews don't typically proselytize Gentiles.

It certainly sounds like the "scores" was an overblown claim, Yafet.

[insaneinthebrain]

This is totally baseless and untrue.

Other than insaneinthebrain and Pray4Isrel (And they both can attest to what I'm about to say), I have been around longer than most anyone else here. No one... NO ONE other than myself and Talmidah have converted to Judaism. Moreover, I had always attended a synagogue and never called a messianic congregation my home, and Talmidah never truly was "messianic", she was just searching at the time.

There was 1... count it, ONE Jew who openly debated the messiahship of Jesus at the time, and he was kind and kept his debates specifically to the debate section. In fact, I was the one who debated him ;) He was respectful, kind and was only around for maybe less than 6 months.

This whole argument that was PM'ed to you (and I can imagine only a couple of people who would have sent it to you on these forums) was essentially used to cut Jews off from posting freely.

-Yafet
You've been here longer than me, by about a month. :P

[Ivy]

Are you guys older than dirt? :D Heh heh, just funnin' ;)

[ChavaK]

And it's true, if most of the posters here are not Jewish-born, I wouldn't see any point in "anti-missionaries" coming to this forum.

Which is why it wouldn't make sense for an
"anti-missionary" to come here- I agree with
you.

My understanding is that Jews don't typically proselytize Gentiles.


Correct, we do not proselytize at all. There is no
need for a Gentile to become a Jew.
Which is why I don't see the need for an anti-
missionary to come here, unless they are assuming
that all posters here are Jewish...

[ChavaK]

Are you guys older than dirt? :D

I admit I am! :)

[Ivy]

My grandma would never admit that....she has white hair, and she still says, "I'm 29 and holding," :D with a twinkle in her eye.

[dignitized]

It is now okay to post anti-Israel hate in the MJ forum with no repercussions?

It now okay for a bunch of Gentiles from various Christian backgrounds to tell a Jewish man he's no longer Jewish simply because he attends an Anglican church?

This forum sickens me...We've had our disagreements in the past - for the most part, I have always respected you - ;) But I hafta say - I'm glad to see you have evolved in your opinions. :)

[dignitized]

One thing that should not be allowed is to attack a person\'s race. No matter what kind of church anyone attends, that will never change who they are in the flesh - if you are Jewish, being an Anglican Christian will never change that!

The first pope was a Jewish man! No matter what church you belong to, it will never change who you are in the flesh.

nasa1Linus was Jewish?

[simchat_torah]

S_T has also been transparent during his journey toward conversion. Yup. Even when I VERY FIRST joined, like... years ago... I made it clear that I attended a traditional Jewish synagogue and not a messianic service (Even though at the time I had messianic beliefs). So, I'm curious as to these scores of people who have fallen away because of antimissionaries. Who are they?haha, yeah...

[simchat_torah]

You've been here longer than me, by about a month. :Plol, are you serious? I guess I've been around longer than I thought.


hahahaha, oh boy.

[simchat_torah]

It certainly sounds like the "scores" was an overblown claim, Yafet.Oh, I wasn't attacking you Ivy ;)

I was just flabbergasted by the pm someone sent to you.

[dignitized]

Yup. Even when I VERY FIRST joined, like... years ago... I made it clear that I attended a traditional Jewish synagogue and not a messianic service (Even though at the time I had messianic beliefs). haha, yeah... [/color][/font][/color][/font]I seem to remember that you were on staff and openly posting in this forum denials of the divinity of Christ. :) I was here back then too - QUITE unpopular, but I was here.

[Ivy]

Oh, I wasn't attacking you Ivy ;)

I was just flabbergasted by the pm someone sent to you.

Yes, I knew you weren't. I was agreeing with you that that person's claim must have been overblown. :sorry:

[simchat_torah]

I seem to remember that you were on staff and openly posting in this forum denials of the divinity of Christ. :) I was here back then too - QUITE unpopular, but I was here.Well, I had agreed to never argue it in the forums. But at the time, this section of the forums was in desperate need of a MJ moderator, or at least a moderator who was even vaguely familiar with the movement. So Pray4Isrel made a plea to Erwin and allowed non-trinitarian mods as long as they agreed to not "argue" about the divinity of the messiah. I never hid my beliefs, but also never argued regarding them either.

All was perfectly happy... until the new rules came into effect.

[dignitized]

Well, I had agreed to never argue it in the forums. But at the time, this section of the forums was in desperate need of a MJ moderator, or at least a moderator who was even vaguely familiar with the movement. So Pray4Isrel made a plea to Erwin and allowed non-trinitarian mods as long as they agreed to not "argue" about the divinity of the messiah. I never hid my beliefs, but also never argued regarding them either.

All was perfectly happy... until the new rules came into effect.not exactly perfectly happy. But it's water under the bridge. I'm surprised at the "conspiracy" then to deceive the membership that took place if what you say is true. Especially since I was given a ban to keep me silent on the issue it seems. Interesting. OH well.

[simchat_torah]

not exactly perfectly happy. But it's water under the bridge. I'm surprised at the "conspiracy" then to deceive the membership that took place if what you say is true. Especially since I was given a ban to keep me silent on the issue it seems. Interesting. OH well.
I think the MJ forum had special rules apply simply because MJ is a blending of Christianity and Judaism. Considering Judaism is non-trinitarian, Erwin then agreed that MJ's wouldn't be banned if they held to a non-trinitarian view.

Of course, that didn't last. Many outside the MJ forum were royalled ticked off and made their voices known loudly.

. I'm surprised at the "conspiracy" then to deceive the membership that took place if what you say is true.What conspiracy? I don't follow...

[dignitized]

simchat - would you mind if I were to share this information? There is plenty of debate going on right now about non-Christians and heterodox Christians being mods. People might change their tune if they realize that we've had them in the past and the forum did not come crashing down.

[simchat_torah]

Well, I have no relation to what's going on right now honestly... as I haven't even posted on these forums in months. The only reason I came back is because my email tells me "Hey, you've got an PM at CF, go check it you lazy bum." So I came here, noticed I could post a bit more freely and have had a good time the past few days.

Anyway, if you need documentation Pray4Isrel would be the best person to go to regarding those rules. I haven't been a mod here in... I dunno... in 3.5+ years?

Nor have I been a consistent poster. The restricting rules were harsh. The constant barrage of warnings I received was even harsher.

I'd say go to Pray4Isrel. She probably has the best documented resources, as she went directly to Erwin with such matters. In fact, she was the whole reason this section of the forums was created in the first place.

[dignitized]

I know. I was here. :)

[ChavaK]

My grandma would never admit that....she has white hair, and she still says, "I'm 29 and holding," :D with a twinkle in her eye.

Good for grandma, I like her attitude!
I have been lucky enough so far not
to have gone gray yet, but when the
time comes.....that's one of the advantages
of wearing a sheitl! Hide the gray without
bothering with haircolor!

[debi b]

Not to mention that writing is just a harsher medium of communication by nature......it's *very easy to superimpose a bad tone on someone's writing based on our own tension level with the subject. I've done it myself many times.

I'm simply saying, take negative perceptions with a whopping grain of salt.....that person may be a wonderful human being in realtime.

I know you were talking about how we percieve people - but I couldn't help thinking about how this also applies to scripture. There are so many times we supply the emotion there as well...and tend to miss the point as a result.

Back to your regularly scheduled program :D