huh????

[bigJerm]

hard to understand how you are really saved sometimes...some preachers preach grace...that you are save by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ paying the full penaly .....then you have the guys that preach repentance as if the quality of your repentance is going to save you...." if youre still practicing sin your not going to be in the kingdom" well how do you know what practicing sin is?....since John says if we say we have no sin we are lying.........seems like the logic to this stuff just goes in circles

[jazzypooh]

actually the Bible says both. sometimes in these cases its best to look at what it says in the Word instead of trusting in what man has said to you. its best that you look at what all of the Bible says about this. you cant take bits and pieces of Paul's letters, then ignore the other things he wrote about the same subject... c'mon now. and thats what a lot of preachers/teachers do. but we have to keep a balance when it comes to the Word of God especially in the area of salvation. so people won't be confused.

look at these scriptures (keeping in mind that Paul wrote both of these letters - so they have the same author):

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Romans 6:15-16
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

then he goes on to say:
Romans 6:19
I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members (another word for body parts) as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

so here in these 2 letters Paul lets us know that yes salvation is a free gift given to us by the grace of God and that we must believe in order to be saved. but then he also says, that just because we're no longer under the law, does that mean that we do away with the law? just because we're under grace, does that mean that we continue in sin? then he responds to his own question with a resounding no! i suggest that you read the book of Romans, specifically the 1st 6 chapters.

the Lord has saved us by grace, but He has also called us to a life of holiness. holiness is not unattainable. if it were, then the Lord would not require it of us. think about it: God would never require something of us, that we were not able to attain. and yes it is a requirement. the Bible says without holiness no man will see the Lord (Heb. 12:14). and Jesus said out of His own mouth that only the pure in heart shall see God (also referring to living a life of holiness). but just like it was His grace that saved us, it will also be His same grace that leads us into a life of holiness. i think what a lot of "grace preachers" (if thats what you like to call them) fail to recognize, its the whole definition of the word "grace."

grace is not just defined as God's mercy on mankind's sinfulness. but grace is also defined as the power of the Holy Spirit in us to overcome sin. so not only does His grace save us from sin, but it also enables us to overcome the sin that is in our lives. when you look at it from that perspective, then it helps you to understand why Paul wrote what seems to be contradictory statements. but when you understand the full meaning of the word "grace" then it helps you to get a better picture.

and yes Jesus paid the price in full and salvation is not by works. but Jesus' death was more than an Atonement for our sins. He also gave us His Spirit to help us overcome sin. so what His Word requires, His grace enables us to obtain.

as far as repentance: Jesus said Himself if we do not repent we will perish (Luke 13:3). and in Acts it says:
Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

maybe what you're struggling with is again the definition. repentance means to turn from sin and turn toward God, and again what His Word requires, His grace enables us to do. this is 1 of the reasons why His Spirit now lives in us - to enable us to obey His Word. God knew that we could not obey Him on our own. thats why He has given us HIs precious Holy Spirit to show us how. the power of the Holy Spirit is what enables us to repent from our sins. so the more we trust in Him to assist us, the more He assists us. we have to have faith in Him. we have to believe that He can free us from these things, instead of trying to free ourselves from these things. it is impossible for man by himself, but with God all things are possible.

you asked about practicing sin and knowing whether or not you're in the kingdom... i was just studying in the 4th chapter of Romans. i believe that you know you are saved when you have His Spirit living inside you and you are in right standing with God. how do you know when you are in right standing with God? in Romans 4:18-22, it's talking about the faith of Abraham:

Romans 4:18-22 (Amp)
[For Abraham, human reason for] hope being gone, hoped in faith that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been promised, So [numberless] shall your descedents be. He did not weaken in faith... No unbelief or distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong and was empowered by faith as he gave praise and glory to God... That is why his faith was credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).

so it is our faith in God that puts us in right standing with God. as long as we have faith in Him to empower us by His grace (the power of His Holy Spirit to overcome sin), and trust in His power, then that faith puts us in right standing along with our obedience and submission to Him. we cannot say we truly have faith in God, if we are not truly submitted to Him. our submission to Him proves our faith and trust in Him. thats why Paul said I put my trust in whom I have committed my life. when he committed his life to God, at the same time he became submitted to God, and becasue he was submitted to God he also trusted in God or had faith in God. and that faith puts us in right standing with God. the Bible says that salvation is by faith and not by works, but it also says that faith without works is dead. so there has to be balance.

we cannot turn his grace into lawlessness and still say we have faith in Him, because if we had faith then we would trust Him to help us overcome our sin instead abusing His grace by continuing in sin.

does that mean that we're not saved because we still have "junk"? no, it means that we need to trust God more to help us overcome the garbage that remains. the Bible says that the Word of God is alive and full of power (Heb. 4:12). so it is full of power to deliver us from sin and keep us from sin as long as we trust in God to do so through the power of His Word. when people ask me questions about this subject, i always tell them that the same Bible that saved us is the same Bible that'll free us from sin. if it has the power to save you from sin, then it also has the power to keep you from sin. we have been called OUT of darkness and into His marvelous light.

as far as what John said: look at what he said a few verses before that:

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (sin), we lie and do not practice the truth.

so not only do we lie if we say we have no sin, but we also lie if say we have fellowship (or relationship) with God, yet walk in darkness. then he goes on to say that Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. so it is the power that is in Christ that enables us to overcome sin. the same power that rose Jesus from the dead, now lives in us by His Spirit. and that same power that rose Him from the dead can also free us from sin.

in my personal life, the Lord has freed me from sin that i thought i would never be free from. and now He is still freeing me from things in my life. so my point is that it is a process. and its not an overnight process. we should all be a work in progress. the key words being "in progress." as long as we stay yielded to God and have faith in God, then He will complete the work that He has begun in us just like He's promised in His Word (Phil. 1:6). so just stay yielded, believe Him and trust HIm. its HIs truth (His Word) that sets us free (John 8:32).

[jazzypooh]

i want to also add concerning right standing that the Holy Spirit lives inside of us, right? and Jesus said that the Holy Spirit is a Spirit of Conviction and He will convict us of sin. so it is the job of the Holy Spirit to let us know when we have messed up so that we can go to God in repentance. this is why it is so vital that we trust in Him to lead us into truth. the truth is what sets us free and the Holy Spirit leads us into that liberating truth. that's why the Bible says where the Spirit of teh Lord is there is also liberty. but He can only help us overcome sin if we are submitted to His leading and guiding us, and if we are obedient to His voice. He lets us know when we are in right standing with God, and when we are not, He is the One who helps us find our way back to God. but He cannot lead us into truth, if we are disobedient and refuse to follow.

God bless you!

[TheGuide]

hard to understand how you are really saved sometimes...some preachers preach grace...that you are save by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ paying the full penaly .....then you have the guys that preach repentance as if the quality of your repentance is going to save you...." if youre still practicing sin your not going to be in the kingdom" well how do you know what practicing sin is?....since John says if we say we have no sin we are lying.........seems like the logic to this stuff just goes in circles
Your question is well-written.

There are different types of ministries. The "fire and brimstone" minister teaches repentance and deliverance. Once you understand and receive both, then it's time to move on to a more grace-based ministry (or minister).

You have to understand that annointed ministers are blessed with powerful ministries techniques, but you will find that many are stronger preachers in certain areas. For example, a "fire and brimstone" minister is usually effective in bringing people to repentance, and he/she doesn't deviate too far from this type of ministry. So to remain under this type of ministry is pointless if you have 1) repented, and 2) know exactly what that means.

Once we are delivered we need a ministry that teaches us how to apply God's word to our daily lives. This is what helps us grow out of our sinful nature.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you..."

You are definitely on the right track.

God bless you,

The Guide

[bigdAddyweAve423]

All of what I am about to say, may have already been said. but, here goes:

First, we are saved by Grace. But we also need to repent of our sins, daily. We all sin, even after we have confessed our faith in Christ. God's Grace, through Christ's death forgives us of our sins.

Second, when we repent of our sins, that means we are turning away from that sin & turning to the Lord. If we continue in that sin, I would then ask, did we really, truly repent with all out heart??

When you say what John said, what verse are you reading. It would better help to explain.

Again, when we repent of our sin & turn everything over to the God, through Christ Jesus, by God's grace - He forgives us. We must live a life of repentance, because we all still fall short of the glory of God.

[bigJerm]

so the days when you do a good job of repenting you are forgiven...how would you ever know if youve repented enough to be forgiven?..........

[heymikey80]

so the days when you do a good job of repenting you are forgiven...how would you ever know if youve repented enough to be forgiven?..........
Simple: you haven't! It's simple, it's just ... a little scary to admit it, isn't it. We all know we fall totally short.

If God were setting up a new bar for us to leap over, we'd still be sunk. If God were thinking, "Well, ok, they couldn't do the Law so how about ... how about just confessing what they haven't done? We'll set up the bar here. Now, it's way lower, surely they can jump that bar."

Well, no. We can't. You've got that exactly, BigJerm. We're still sunk.

But wait -- what if we made an error? We're sunk only if that's what God intended.

What if He didn't intend it that way?

Y'see, we have to get out of thinking what we do is "satisfying requirements," or "getting this for doing that." Paul says it quite clearly, "Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. But to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness" Rom 4:4-5 The rules have changed. We're not working for salvation. Thank God, too. Because we'd all be dead.

However, that doesn't mean there's no actions resulting from faith. We just talked about taking action in order to receive salvation; that's a deadly kind of thing. But instead we take actions because we have received God's grace. We confess, repent, and try to live the new life God has given us because we believe He has given these things to us. We don't confess, repent, and live the new life in order to earn it. That'd be like dressing up for the prom when no one's invited you. What a forlorn hope that is. But surely you'd still dress for the prom! Because Someone's sworn that He will carry you there -- even if it kills Him (and even though it did).

[bigJerm]

that awesome stuff for sure since im a rotten sinner who needs mercy and grace...i just get hung up on these lists paul makes of people practicing sin that wont inherit the kingdom.......eph 5:5, 1 cor 6;9 and galatians 5........what does it mean to "practice" sin?.....seems kind of vague since he lists things like envy that were all prone to..........

[jazzypooh]

it means exactly what it says. to practice means to practice.

the Bible says if you walk in the Spirit, then you won't pursue the lusts of the flesh. so if there's sin in your life that you're having trouble breaking from then you need to spend some time alone with God in prayer and yield to His Spirit - whatever He tells you to do. maybe you should try fasting. when i had trouble breaking free from certain sins, i found out that when i would fast the Holy Spirit through His grace would give me strenth to overcome whatever i was struggling with. and the end result was it being broken off of my life.

1st though, you have to really wanna be free from whatever you're struggling with. if you're not serious with God, then He wont be serious with you. we have to show God that we are serious about whatever we are coming to Him about. fasting is a good way to do that, because we're coming to Him with a sacrifice.

so you have to wanna be free. a slave cant ever get free if he loves his shackles. if he's content with his condition, then he'll never go after what's better.

then you have to believe that you can be liberated from the power of sin. in fact, the Bible says that you already have been set free from the power of sin. so once you're in Christ, sin no longer has power over you. but you have to believe that. and you have to believe His Word. then you have to walk according to what you believe. when you present these things to God, then He does the rest as long as you stay yielded to Him.

remember the Word says that it is the truth that will make you free. then it says that the Holy Spirit will lead you into that truth. in order for someone to lead you somewhere, you have to be willing to follow them.

so you cant be satisfied with where you are. remember to whom much is given, much is also required. so since you have been given this knowledge that you can be free and you can get beyond where you are, then the Lord will be expecting you to push further to that place.

[heymikey80]

that awesome stuff for sure since im a rotten sinner who needs mercy and grace...i just get hung up on these lists paul makes of people practicing sin that wont inherit the kingdom.......eph 5:5, 1 cor 6;9 and galatians 5........what does it mean to "practice" sin?.....seems kind of vague since he lists things like envy that were all prone to..........
I like what jazzypooh's sayin'. Practicing sin essentially is making it "normal" to do these things, where you slip into justifying those things. And they can't be justified.

We always love to bring up the hypocrisy of politicians. When politicians say they want to make a sin "rare", we hear cynically that they don't want to impede a sin at all. But not so with God. God intends to make sins less and less in your life. "Christ came to put away sin". And to make one sin or another out to be "normal" -- or ultimately justifiable -- is a deadly way of allowing sin to rule in your life.

So when we sin, we must then agree with God that it is sin, and it would ultimately condemn and kill us. Were it not for God's grace.

It is extremely humbling to be in Someone Else's Hands about the thing that matters most to you. But it's absolutely critical to put yourself in His Hands and not to squirm away as if these sins don't matter. They matter. But if you don't squirm away from Him, He can do something about it. (Of course He already has.)

[LilLamb219]

so the days when you do a good job of repenting you are forgiven...how would you ever know if youve repented enough to be forgiven?..........

Repentance is a gift from God Himself.

Your sins were forgiven at the cross...ALL of them. That's how you know you're forgiven. YOU don't have to DO anything to earn that forgiveness in any way. By God's grace, He gives you the benefits of the cross to you through the use of means, whether it's by His Word, or baptism or the Lords Supper.

God is the one who saves 100%. We can't add to it. We can only fall away and reject Him.

[jazzypooh]

that awesome stuff for sure since im a rotten sinner who needs mercy and grace...i just get hung up on these lists paul makes of people practicing sin that wont inherit the kingdom.......eph 5:5, 1 cor 6;9 and galatians 5........what does it mean to "practice" sin?.....seems kind of vague since he lists things like envy that were all prone to..........

i want to add also, that the Bible says where sin abounds, grace much more abounds (Romans 5:20). grace meaning the power of the Holy Spirit in us to overcome that sin. that's why the Bible says that with every temptation, God provides a means of escape. that means of escape is within us, because 1/3 of the Godhead lives in us. the power of the Holy Spirit, which dwells within us is our means of escape. His Spirit lives in us to assist us during times of temptation. that's why the Bible says He's a very present help in the time of trouble, because His presence is in us to help when we're facing trouble. so the more you find yourself struggling with sin, the more you can call on the grace of God to strenthen you to overcome that sin as you trust in the Holy Spirit more and more. so no matter what the problem is, His grace is sufficient enough for you. that's why the Bible calls Him the God of all grace.

2 Peter 1:2 says:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you in [the full, personal, precise, and correct] knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

so as we come into the knowledge of God and of Christ, God's grace is multiplied to us. that knowledge will come through prayer and His Word. so pray without ceasing and get in HIs Word more especially concerning the areas where you are struggling right now. the book of Romans pretty much answers your original question, so that'll be a good read for you. so come into His knowledge by studying HIs Word, and as you study the Word, it will empower you to overcome everything that you struggle with and everything that'll ever come your way. His grace will be multiplied to you. remember it is His truth (His Word) that sets you free (John 8:32), and it is that same truth that sanctifies you or cleanses you from sin (John 17:17).

God bless you

[bigJerm]

good replies!!....thank you........i understand everything now....NOT....just kidding!..... im not all freaked like i was....and thats good enough for right now........so thanks a million

[bigJerm]

i dunno...im pretty frustrated with the bible....faith alone faith and works justified by something or other.....by grace....or by repentance.....do i repent?..or repentance is a gift ....so if im struggling with sin is it because God hasnt had enough grace on me...or am i just not believing enufff.....or do o like sin too much ......who knows if i even love God.....sure sounds like a lie when i say it.........i dont know how anybody finds "truth" or "assurance" in all of this circular reasoning and paradoxes......................

[LilLamb219]

You aren't alone in your struggles! The apostle Paul spoke of such struggles himself! It's because we're bound to sin in our human bodies, yet, the Holy Spirit is transforming us. It's why we should NOT look to ourselves for any proof of salvation, but look completely to our triune God and the cross where salvation was won for us and know that we are forgiven.

[jazzypooh]

i dunno...im pretty frustrated with the bible....faith alone faith and works justified by something or other.....by grace....or by repentance.....do i repent?..or repentance is a gift ....so if im struggling with sin is it because God hasnt had enough grace on me...or am i just not believing enufff.....or do o like sin too much ......who knows if i even love God.....sure sounds like a lie when i say it.........i dont know how anybody finds "truth" or "assurance" in all of this circular reasoning and paradoxes......................
you need to pray about these things. God is not the author of confusion. ask His Spirit to lead you. and this is not circular reasoning or paradoxes. His Word is TRUTH - absolute truth. you just have to believe that. if you dont believe that, then you can never receive understanding on any of these questions you are asking. and stop speaking the lies of the enemy. just pray and ask God to reveal His Word to you, and help you understand it better. this is all we can do for you.

[bigJerm]

this is all you can do for me huh.......sounds like your version of truth is blind faith

[Inan3]

this is all you can do for me huh.......sounds like your version of truth is blind faith

Hey BJ I don't think that faith is blind it is based on the Word of God. It is based in whether or not you TRUST Him and His Word.

Do you Believe that what God says is true? Do you believe it is for you? Those are the things you must first decide.

Forget about for now your sin issues, your weaknesses. You must first believe that God IS.

Heb 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and [that] He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Faith is the catalyst into our life with God and Faith is the language, so to speak, that we communicate with Him.

What He wants from us is to "believe" Him, that what He says is Truth. He understands that our world we live in is very often contrary to what He says, but that is where He wants us to learn to Trust Him, in spite of what we see, feel, hear contrary to it. That is why He has given us His Word, the Bible. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.

A born again "believer" walks in this for always. From the first day he gives his life to Christ to the last day of his life here on the Earth.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

In Hebrews 11:6 above we see that God WANTS us to first believe that He is, He exists, but the second part of that is that He WANTS us to believe that He is a REWARDER of those who diligently seek Him.

He says, Seek me and you shall find Me when you seek for me with ALL your heart. He's there for you and everyone who will call upon His name.

There's much more I could say but the first decision is up to you. Are you willing to BELIEVE Him. That's all it takes. He really wants you to because He has so much for you.

[bigJerm]

you know ive taken a huge step of faith...i have called on His name...and walked away from a life of social acceptance and financial security and its going on more than a year of just complete misery.....i dont know what else to do.....i keep hearing God has a plan for your life....God has so much more for you.....really...where?.....on this side of the grave?.............and then i have questions and i get replies like......"God is not the author of confusion.........you just need to pray ....thats all we can do for you".....typical chrisitan responses to an uncomfortable question

[Inan3]

hard to understand how you are really saved sometimes...some preachers preach grace...that you are save by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ paying the full penaly .....then you have the guys that preach repentance as if the quality of your repentance is going to save you...." if youre still practicing sin your not going to be in the kingdom" well how do you know what practicing sin is?....since John says if we say we have no sin we are lying.........seems like the logic to this stuff just goes in circles

Repentence is just a decision you make to change your mind. The Greek word for REPENT follows:

G3340 μετανοέω metanoeō met-an-o-eh'-o
Strongs definition
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

G3340 μετανοέω metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3326 and G3539
Citing in TDNT: 4:975, 636

That's all it is. I do agree there is too much emphasis on Repentence and too much preaching on sin to the Body of Christ. It takes maturity and an understanding of the Word of God to know who you are in Christ to keep you from getting frustrated, discouraged and depressed.

You can be victorious but it won't by hearing over and over again that you have to repent, repent, repent. You will get the victory when you hear who you are in Christ. You will become transformed, not by trying to curb your appetites, or beat yourself up but you will be transformed by the renewing of you mind with the Word of God. Once again believing what God says, (about you), and applying it by faith and not works.

God's Word is a powerful force that can litterally change us when we can't change ourselves.

I know there are preachers out there who keep pounding and hounding on sin but I suggest you get as far away from them as possible. Find a man of God or church that teaches you who you are in Christ and get yourself built up rather than torn down. That is the key to true change and deliverence from sin.

Here is one of my favorite scriptures:

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass (or mirror) the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I hope this helps because I know the turmoil that one can experience before they learn this truth. I have truly been there.

[Inan3]

you know ive taken a huge step of faith...i have called on His name...and walked away from a life of social acceptance and financial security and its going on more than a year of just complete misery.....i dont know what else to do.....i keep hearing God has a plan for your life....God has so much more for you.....really...where?.....on this side of the grave?.............and then i have questions and i get replies like......"God is not the author of confusion.........you just need to pray ....thats all we can do for you".....typical chrisitan responses to an uncomfortable question

As Christians, we all walk away from the old social acceptance, (or we should) and as far as financial security, some do some don't....you certainly do not have to. I don't know where you are going to church or where you are at in your heart, but your life should be a more peaceful, secure and full of joy. That is what God wants for you. If this is not happening then something is amiss and needs to be corrected. I'm not saying that you will never have trials in your life, you will, but NOW you have the Lord to help you and deliver you.

Psa 34:19 Many [are] the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

Those in the world do not have this privilage. They have hard times but no one to deliver them. (Except they come to the Lord)

Pro 13:15 Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors [is] hard.

Pro 4:14 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil [men].
Pro 4:15 Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away.
Pro 4:16 For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause [some] to fall.
Pro 4:17 For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.
Pro 4:18 But the path of the just [is] as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
Pro 4:19 The way of the wicked [is] as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

I suggest you stop looking back. We usually only remember the good times and easily forget the bad. The Israelites kept looking back at Egypt, forgetting the bondage they were in. They could only remember the leeks and the garlic, etc. Their looking back is what KEPT them out of the promised land. They chose to keep whining and complaining even though God did many wonderful things for them. I think they kept their eyes on the wrong things and didn't get to KNOW the LORD.

It is when we have a relationship with Him that we are able to endure. It is the joy OF THE LORD, that is our strength. Said another way, it is the joy OF KNOWING THE LORD INTIMATELY that is our strength. Their is a joy, a peace, a strength that comes from His fellowship, His presence that no financial security, nor man or woman, nor anything else can give. I would suggest you seek HIM. Develop your relationship with HIM. You don't have to put on any "religious" airs with the Lord. Just be yourself. He knows and loves you best. LET Him be your best friend. He wants that. I know you are a Christian but you still need to develop that relationship. Christianity is not a social club. It's KNOWING Him. It's all about Him. If you are looking for people or things to fulfill you, forget it. They will fail you.

I assure you that if you will look to Jesus the Author and Finisher of your faith, you will find what you are looking for. He's waiting for and wanting that relationship with you. He's looking for a man like David...a man after His own heart. Read the Psalms and cry out to Him. It's all there.

[bigJerm]

enduring is right....thats all my life has become....something to endure.......

[Inan3]

enduring is right....thats all my life has become....something to endure.......

Okay BJ...would you feel comfortable elaborating a little on that? Maybe we can figure it out with maybe another slant on it.

[bigJerm]

ahhh.....found the verse i was looking for...how coincidental..yea right........habakkuk.... Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: habakkuk 3:17-1818 Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation.

even if i think my life sucks......praise the Lord!..i got it now

[jazzypooh]

you know ive taken a huge step of faith...i have called on His name...and walked away from a life of social acceptance and financial security and its going on more than a year of just complete misery.....i dont know what else to do.....i keep hearing God has a plan for your life....God has so much more for you.....really...where?.....on this side of the grave?.............and then i have questions and i get replies like......"God is not the author of confusion.........you just need to pray ....thats all we can do for you".....typical chrisitan responses to an uncomfortable question
thats because you're looking for a perfect answer and you wont find it until you go to God. thats why i told you that. if you dont seek God for yourself then you'll never find Him. we cant do that for you. that's your own responsibility as a Christian. you have to work out you OWN salvation. we can only go so far. there's only so much we can do and say to you. at some point you have to make an effort yourself. we've poured out a lot trying to help you, and i think its very unappreciative for you to make such a comment when people are only trying to help you. you have to wanna be helped. this IS all we can do until you make personal steps yourself to get further than where you are in your walk. all we can do is tell you how and give you information on how you can progress, but its up to you to take that information and actually do something with it.

[bigJerm]

sorry jazzy....i dont mean to sound unappreciative......thanks for your replies.........im just reallly reallly frustrated

[jazzypooh]

i responded like that not to offend you, but to give you scripture to combat your frustration and confusion. when you begin to pray "God is not the author of confusion" and "His Spirit is leading me into all truth" then that is warfare. you start warring against that frustration and confusion that is attacking your mind and causing you to feel that way. that's why i always try to respond like that so i speak against what is attacking you. and that's what you need to do. the enemy is attacking you in your mind. that's why you have to start praying like that to counteract the attacks that he is sending to you. i've been doing this a lot lately too and it does work. it's sort of like when Jesus was in the wilderness fasting and the enemy came to tempt Him. every time the devil came Jesus quoted the Word back to him and put him on the run. that's the same thing we have to do. even if you still feel like you're confused and frustrated just stop operating according to your feelings. and go by your faith in what the Word says. His Word says He'll give you truth about all these things. so keep praying His Word. God has to perform His Word. He's obligated to do so. and He will do it. whenever the devil sends thoughts to your mind that are contrary to the Word, speak the Word anyhow. even if you dont feel like it's working. there's power in your words, so after a while your emotions and feelings will start lining up with what you've been saying. trust me. this is what i've been doing and it DOES WORK! i am so serious. i was depressed for a long time, but i just kept speaking the WOrd and saying "the joy of the Lord is my strenth" and other scriptures and pretty soon i was no longer depressed. because my feelings began to align with the words that were coming out of my mouth. and now even people around me tell me how much better i look and act. they say i look like a new person. and i tell them i am! because His Word changed me. and it will change you to.

it's not God's desire that you be confused about Him. it's HIs will to reveal Himself to you and He will do just that.

God bless you

[Inan3]

ahhh.....found the verse i was looking for...how coincidental..yea right........habakkuk.... Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: habakkuk 3:17-1818 Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation.

even if i think my life sucks......praise the Lord!..i got it now

I'm sorry, I intended to give you that very scripture in Habakkuk but thought I had given you enough to chew on. I'm so glad the Lord gave it to you, though. It seems to have helped. He's always is there for you.

One other thing, have you ever heard that you have the things your say?


Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

That includes both bad and good.


Life and death are in the power of the tongue.

Pro 18:21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

It might help if you began to change what you are saying, such as, "My life is good in God. I am more than a conqueror in Christ Jesus. He always causes me to triumph in Christ Jesus." Etc. This is all scriptual and the truth. So it you won't be lying.


Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in ALL these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Cr 2:14 Now thanks unto God, which[B] ALWAYS causeth us (ME) to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of His knowledge by us in every place.


When we put God's word in our mouth it is always the truth even if our circumstances don't seem to line up with it. God's word in our mouth is HOW we change our circumstances. Read Gal 3. Our tongue is as the rudder on a ship or the bridle on a horse and can "turn about" or reverse our lives. If we don't like what is happening in our lives we need to speak God's word over our lives and it will "turn about" our circumstances.


Jam 3:3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
Jam 3:4 Behold also the ships, which though [they be] so great, and [are] driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
Jam 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

So how do we do this? When we need to change things in our lives...we find scriptures relating to it...write them down...learn them and then speak them out loud over our circumstances. Especially when the enemy comes in and begins to accuse you and condemn you and lie to you. The Word of God in your mouth is the sword of the Spirit. USE IT! IT WILL NOT FAIL YOU! The shield of faith will quench his fiery darts. Submit to God by believing His word works! Resist the devil with it and he will flee from you.

Also, when you read God's word don't look at it an say, "I don't measure up!" Instead say, "That's me! That's my life! This is what Christ has done for me!"

This takes courage and faith and patience but it will do what it said it will do. Hallelujah to our God!

[jazzypooh]

Amen!

[Inan3]

sorry jazzy....i dont mean to sound unappreciative......thanks for your replies.........im just reallly reallly frustrated

Song by Don Francisco

http://www.rockymountainministries.org/membersite.html

Then click on "I'll Never Let Go of Your Hand" under He's Alive Collection Vol 1

[bigJerm]

man im such a jerk

[Inan3]

man im such a jerk

If jerk is what you want to be keep speaking that over yourself BUT I don't think that is what you want so try saying what God says about you. Forgiven, beloved, righteous, child, more than a conqueror, king and priest, saint, redeemed, bride, member of His Body, peculiar people, sheep, etc.:D

[bigJerm]

im such a peculiar sheep

[heymikey80]

you know ive taken a huge step of faith...i have called on His name...and walked away from a life of social acceptance and financial security and its going on more than a year of just complete misery.....i dont know what else to do.....i keep hearing God has a plan for your life....God has so much more for you.....really...where?.....on this side of the grave?.............and then i have questions and i get replies like......"God is not the author of confusion.........you just need to pray ....thats all we can do for you".....typical chrisitan responses to an uncomfortable question
You know, I'm not sure if I'd be making this easier or harder for you to say what I'm about to say. It may frustrate you even more. Because it destabilizes a few things. And it makes it even harder to decide what to do in some cases. So ... what I'm gonna tell you I believe it's true. I just don't think it's really easy to understand.

Some things just take a long time to understand.

And I hope I'm not about to repeat myself to you -- but I have a feeling I'm gonna. :blush: So just blow it off if I've said this before. Maybe there's a little bit that'll help.

We often come to Christ with two preconceptions: that we're to assimilate with the Good, and separate from the Evil. Right? I did, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

But if God is connecting through to us sinful people who do evil, egotistical, unjustifiable things: then God is slashing a new path of Good. It's a path that can be vaguely called the "redemptive" path.

So now there're three actions in ethics, not just two: assimilation, separation, and redemption. That's that new path Jesus walked to the Cross. What if God wanted us to spread this redemptive path? Jesus lived a sinless life, true. But we're to be putting away sin as we live along His path to redemption. Jesus redeemed His people. Scripture says we're suppose to "redeem the times", be of "good report", "always be willing to have an answer for the hope that's in us".

It isn't perfect. It takes plenty out of us -- and it really takes huge chunks out of my psyche when I try to act "Christian" without bringing straight to mind, "This Jesus died a painful death for me, for my benefit, just so He could carry me in His embrace beyond the grave to a life forever."

But it's not all sacrifice and no fun. It is amazingly cool to work with new believers you've helped to see God's love and grace.

I repeat myself from another posting, but I still remember the first time I ever saw this redemptive scheme in action. It was a tiny thing. I was playing monopoly with a couple of kids, and this one kid, he was busting up on all the rest of us. I could tell his younger brother had probably never ever won against this mastermind of Monopoly.

So I did something.

I openly gave away everything to the younger brother.

In a shot, I was out of the game. But the younger brother, he was ahead. The game quickly rolled to an end. The kid seemed to be walking on air he was so happy.

Now that was just a game. This is real life. Then we were playing. Now we play for keeps. It's not as easy or predictable as the game, no. But it's worth every play you can make.

[heymikey80]

im such a peculiar sheep
:thumbsup: We used to sing this song, and when the verse came to "a peculiar people", we'd sing it REALLY REALLY LOUDLY! :groupray:

[Inan3]

im such a peculiar sheep

LOL Good Man! God Man! You got it!

[Kryzoz]

The more scripture you read the more your eyes will be opened and the more you will say "Oh, envy is wrong" "Oh strife is wrong" once you have that knowledge the Holy Spirit will convict you speedily when you sin. The idea of grace is correct. However, you cannot use grace as a "get out of jail free card" as it were. Therefore the idea of repentance is also correct.If you knowingly sin, you must repent and repentance is not just asking for forgiveness, it is turning away from your sin, or making a conscious effort not to fall into that sin any more. As for the list of sins in galatians, that is for knowledge so that you can have that "Oh" moment. To practice sin is just like practicing any other thing, like hitting a baseball or shooting a basketball in my honest opinion. Therefore cit means to do it continually with no desire to change.