Help, this is really bothering me

[TCat]

The church I attend is growing and so is the school which it supports. This summer both church and school offices have combined into one large office which is probably a good thing.

The problem I am having is with the bright idea of making the school nurses office the same room as the church nursery. So that during the week sick kids will be in the nurses office vomiting and contaminating everything and in the evenings and on Sunday mornings when families bring their babies to the nursery they will be exposed!

This especially bothers me in knowing that some of the small children who will be in that room, crawling on the floor and touching everything come from homes and shelters where little medical care has been available. Most of the babies cannot recieve their needed vaccines due to age and some are not healthy to begin with as they were exposed to drugs before birth etc.

It really bothers me, I know our church supports, welcomes and encourages young families, we have a great school, camp, and activities for the kids but I am shocked at the apparent lack of concern for the youngest members of our congregation.

I have mentioned my concerns to a few well placed friends but of course they just tell me that this is the way it is and pretty much to get over it. My daughter is 3 and I don't have to use the nursery anymore if I don't like it but I can;t help but be bothered by it.

I guess I should talk to my pastor but he is very busy and I don't think he'd really give a darn about my petty concerns.

Frustrated

[DaRev]

I guess I should talk to my pastor but he is very busy and I don't think he'd really give a darn about my petty concerns.

If the pastor is worth his salt he should be concerned. No concern is petty. I would simply ask if there is any proceudre in place to address the potential hazzard. They may have already thought about this and have some sort of solution in place.

[TCat]

Maybe so, or maybe I am just letting this silly thing bother me. Some of you here are parents, what do you think? Is this really not big deal. would you let your little ones go to the church nursery knowing it was the school nurses office during the week?

[Jim47]

You should also tell your church president and all the elders. If there are others that have your same concern then ask that a meeting be scheduled. This is not a petty concern at all. Everyone should be concerned about children.

[PreachersWife2004]

Maybe so, or maybe I am just letting this silly thing bother me. Some of you here are parents, what do you think? Is this really not big deal. would you let your little ones go to the church nursery knowing it was the school nurses office during the week?

If I knew that it was being cleaned up correctly (anti-bacterial stuff, etc) it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me.

I've seen it done this way at a couple of different schools/churches, mainly because of space issues. It's really hard for most buildings to have a separate "nurse" area.

I would definitely speak up, though, because I would want to make sure that they have the right plan in place to avoid spreading illness around. You are right to be concerned, and it's not a petty concern either.

[KEPLER]

Bear in mind that bacteria don't live for very long on dry, unfertile surfaces. From the time the last kid leaves on Friday afternoon to when the children arrive on Sunday morning, most of the bacteria will already be dead.

Read this: http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arch/9_14_96/bob2.htm

Nevertheless, an appropriate safeguard would be to make sure the room is thoroughly cleaned on Saturday. This would mean (primarily) spraying down all surfaces (especially plastic toys) with a bleach/water solution (generally 1 TBSP bleach to 1 quart of water) and then wiping them dry with a clean cloth.

All plush toys should be laundered.

Perhaps you could volunteer to do this?

[TCat]

If the nursery were only in use on Sunday mornings I would probably be less concerned as I agree that things could be cleaned up and ready between Friday and Sunday.

Fortunately our church is VERY active and has events, meetings and services going on nearly every night of the week. The nursery gets lots of use.

As I said maybe I'm needlessly concerned. Between my DH, teenaged son and I, we can keep my daughter out of the nursery. We may have to be less active in the church but maybe that is what needs to happen for her safety.

As for being concerned about the smallest children coming to play on a carpet that has been vomited on earlier in the day, well, I guess thats not really my problem. The working moms who are coming to be ministered to will have to decide what is more improtant and risk their kids getting sick and having to miss work or just staying home and not letting their kids go in there. Maybe finding another church will have to be an option for some.

Sorry, just venting here.

[KEPLER]

Vomit, while disgusting and smelly, does not actually have a lot of contaminants in it. Remember that the acids in our stomachs comprise about 2/3 of the human immune system. Kills lots of things. :sick:

[seajoy]

How large is this nursery? Could one area be curtained off for the nurse/sick kids, and the rest be left only for church events etc...? Might contain things a little anyway.

[TCat]

The nursery is small, to small for a church our size.

Vomit is not the only thing in which to be concerned, blood and body wastes etc are also an issue. We have a couple of kids in the school who are incontinent due to handicaps, who use the nurses office and bathroom, at times they leak. My son has had bloody noses on the carpet in the former nurses office twice that I am aware of...

I'm just praying about it and protecting my child, as for the rest, oh well.

[dinkime]

what are they doing with the old nurses office? and why the change? it seems like a silly thing that someone is doing so they can have a bigger office (some sort of school admin maybe)...

[dinkime]

oh, and if i was there, i would keep my child with me in church or at meetings -- to heck with them crawling on a floor that may have been puked on -- maybe then the higherups will use their brains and figure out a better solution if their meetings are being disturbed by crying

[QuiltAngel]

You say this is a school too? There should be procedures in place for cleaning up such things as to prevent contamination as well as the fact that many bacteria don't live long on dry surfaces. I would think that the school has to follow any biohazard procedures for cleaning such things as vomiting and blood.

You could ask what is done as far as cleaning up such messes. What does the school nurse say about the situation? Maybe there is another nurse who shares your concerns you could talk with also.

[BigNorsk]

If it's actually used as an office and not just a holding pen for sick children, just let the kids play with all the nurse's stuff a few times, tear it up and throw some of it away and that should take care of it. Don't let them play with the meds, but bandages and rolls of gauze can be a blast. Don't know if your nurse keeps some sex ed brochures around. Let each of the kids take one of those home too.

That should handle it.

Have to go now.

Lord forgive me...

[DaRev]

Does the school have a kindergarten class or a preschool class? Why not use one of them as the Sunday nursery instead of the nurse's new sick room? That would make more sense to me.

[porterross]

If it's actually used as an office and not just a holding pen for sick children, just let the kids play with all the nurse's stuff a few times, tear it up and throw some of it away and that should take care of it. Don't let them play with the meds, but bandages and rolls of gauze can be a blast. Don't know if your nurse keeps some sex ed brochures around. Let each of the kids take one of those home too.

That should handle it.

Have to go now.

Lord forgive me...
My first thought was access to meds of any kind as well. I would think there is a requirement or law that any medicinal items be locked up and a certain area inaccessible to all but licensed staff as well as further restrictions during hours of inoperation. The church and school could be setting themselves up for some serious consequences.

As for the germ issue, it's a mom thing. Nothing wrong with it.

[Lupinus]

Keep in mind there are very strict procedures in place in most facilities (and in many cases according to law when it is a public space, especially for children) for cleaning up anything and everything that could be a bio hazard (blood, vomit, etc). We aren't talking someone bleeding on the floor and it being left there to dry up and go away on its own or a quick mop up with no sanitation. And if we are, you have problems regardless of what uses the room is being used for.

I wouldn't be worried as anything in there that could pose a health hazard is going to be cleaned up quickly if proper procedures are being followed, and if they aren't it's another issue entirely unto itself. If its airborne stuff you are worried about like colds keep in mind that most viruses are pretty fragile things and don't live long outside the body. Think of a hospital, plenty of sick people but the vast majority who spend some time visiting someone aren't going to leave with some airborne disease. If it still worries you perhaps recommend a good air purifier for the room as well as it being sprayed down with some sanitizer at the end of everyday.

Or you could just start thinking like me that we live in an over sanitized world and out immune system can take a work out on occasion lol.

[PreachersWife2004]

Our school nurse is only allowed to keep prescription medicine during the day. The medicine goes home with the child. And they're not allowed to give regular pain relief themselves...if we as parents want our children to have it, we have to go to school and administer it. So I'm not sure you'd have to worry about medicines too much.

If you really stop and think about what we (and our children) come into contact with every day, I'm betting you'd find that a nursing station that doubles as a nursery is probably going to be much cleaner and more sanitary than most public places.

Have you ever looked at the bottom of a child's seat at McDonalds? I saw a show where they tested the surface of a mall stroller. It was gross.

[TCat]

I've been thinking about this issue a lot today. I am concerned about babies crawling on a carpet where sick school aged kids have been.

I don't take my puppy to Petsmart til he is fully vaccinated, I don't let my healthy kid play on the "sick" side of the pediatrican's office, and I don't take my kids under 12 years of age to visit those in the hospital.

I am concerned about children who have not have good medical care or prenatal care and whose immune systems may not be well developed. I am concerned about the fact that if someone has been sick on the carpet it will not be ready for a baby to play on 2 hours later.

I think I will call the State Health department for recomendations, and then go to my pastor with a few other concerned parents, maybe he'll listen.

The thing is that there is an area that could be converted into a great nursery right off our Christian Life building, but it houses tables and chairs right now for use on Sunday mornings on the patio. I seriously doubt that those in charge would be willing to change the convienence of storage just for a few babies whose parents don't bring any money into the church.

[PreachersWife2004]

Hmmm...since our school secretary's office doubles as the nurse station, she wasn't allowed to have carpet - mainly because vomit can stain and is very difficult to clean. I can't remember if it was a state regulation or not though.

It just seems like there's got to be a better place for the nursery. I think it's a good idea to call the Health Department. They'll be able to at least tell you how to make sure that room is cleaned after every use. And they may just tell you that the church isn't allowed to do things that way because of regulations.

[BigNorsk]

Ever put your child in a shopping cart? Or even worse put fruit and such right there where the diapers have all been? Microbiological tests on that area of shopping carts makes one wonder why any of us survive.

Course I had so much microbiology, I'm amazed any of us make it. If I cook a turkey and no one gets sick I am just so proud you couldn't stand me.

Anyway, I can understand your concern about the nurse's office but I'm not sure it's much to be concerned with really. It's more likely you will get something opening a door. Kid might throw up in the nurses office, but also the bathroom the classroom the hallway, the sidewalk outside. I can remember all those from school.

If the school gets a serious health outbreak say meningitis or something, does the congregation shut down too?

See I'm not sure that the school children in the office during the week really add a lot of risk to what is already there. A lot of those youngsters in the nursery have spent the week in various daycares or baby sitter's homes. Plenty of chances to pick up plenty of things.

We don't have a lot of kids in the nursery. Not that many kids and kind of a tradition of keeping the kids with the family in the service. But I actually kind of wonder about nurseries in churches. Very few are adequately cleaned, and no medical history is known.

I kind of liked instead what I saw in Indianapolis. There were a bunch of cloth bags like you see used as shopping bags some times sitting at the back. When visiting we just sat down and off my 3 year old niece went and got one. Inside was a story board. A coloring book and crayons and a couple of other things. She say quietly and watched the service and then it would lose her attention and she would color a bit. Then something would happen to attract her attention and back and forth.

I actually liked that better than nursery. And of course you can make up a bag like that yourself.

Sometimes a kid makes some noise, but I've kind of come to actually enjoy that. I try not to encourage them to make noise though.

Marv

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The church I attend is growing and so is the school which it supports. This summer both church and school offices have combined into one large office which is probably a good thing.

The problem I am having is with the bright idea of making the school nurses office the same room as the church nursery. So that during the week sick kids will be in the nurses office vomiting and contaminating everything and in the evenings and on Sunday mornings when families bring their babies to the nursery they will be exposed!

This especially bothers me in knowing that some of the small children who will be in that room, crawling on the floor and touching everything come from homes and shelters where little medical care has been available. Most of the babies cannot recieve their needed vaccines due to age and some are not healthy to begin with as they were exposed to drugs before birth etc.

It really bothers me, I know our church supports, welcomes and encourages young families, we have a great school, camp, and activities for the kids but I am shocked at the apparent lack of concern for the youngest members of our congregation.

I have mentioned my concerns to a few well placed friends but of course they just tell me that this is the way it is and pretty much to get over it. My daughter is 3 and I don't have to use the nursery anymore if I don't like it but I can;t help but be bothered by it.

I guess I should talk to my pastor but he is very busy and I don't think he'd really give a darn about my petty concerns.

Frustrated
Being exposed to whatever from others physically isn't nearly as potentially and actually harmful to childrens (of any age) health
as the dangers involved in exposing them to what the ama says.
You would think (like my whole family did)
that you could trust your doctor, but before you do/if you already did then you'ld be wise to see what the doctor's in the national health federation have to say (it will shock your socks off very likely, and you will be furious that the united states government has allowed it and actually promoted it).
the simplest way , and surprisingly gentle for the tragedy involved,
is to get one of maureen salaman's book's
(or adelle davis', if you like; or max gerson; or carey reams....so on)
like "all of your health questions answered naturally"
or "nutrition, the cancer answer" (a real eye-opener to a humongous coverup nationwide).....

[latebloomer]

I get real protective of my son. Have to, his immune system is down due to chemotherapy. He spent 2 months at home under "house arrest" this winter (doctor's orders). No church, no preschool, no grocery store, no place but the doctor's until cold, flu and crud of the week season was over. So I can understand the concern about illness. I hope they are cleaning properly.

Marv had a great suggestion. Our church has a rack of "busy bags" and Tiger always gets one. There's always a coloring page that's linked to the Bible readings. Our church has always encouraged children to be a part of the congregation during the service from earliest infancy. We sometimes have a nursery, but it depends on availability of volunteers and whether anyone actually uses it. So far, we're still sitting in the back, but my mom says kids behave better when you sit up front where they can see what's going on. I'm not that bold yet. Tiger hasn't decided yet whether he's ready to go forward for the children's sermon yet. I find it amazing what he remembers. Last week, he asked if we were going to go up front. When parents go forward for Communion, little kids too young to stay in a pew by themselves go along (at my church, anyway). I get the Lord's Supper, he gets a blessing from the pastor. It can be hard getting through a church service with a little one--an hour is an awful long time to sit still and be quiet--but they do learn. My pastor says if all they get out of it is hearing the name Jesus, even that is important. Sometimes Tiger refers to going to church as going to see Jesus. We talk about hearing stories about Jesus and singing songs about Him. And I talk to him afterwards--I want to make sure that he doesn't think that the pastor is Jesus.

[PreachersWife2004]

My current church's nursery is a changing table next to a rocking chair in the fellowship hall. The only small kids are the ones I bring to church. We normally sit in the balcony because I play clarinet but on the days that we don't, I sit up front for two reasons. The babies do behave better - I think it's because they realize Daddy's right up there. I also sit up front because everyone sits in the back of the church, like they're trying to hide. It drives me nuts to look down from the balcony and not see anyone in the middle of the service. So I sit in front to help encourage others to do the same.

The bags are a great idea. I'm going to file it under "useful ideas".

[DaRev]

I also sit up front because everyone sits in the back of the church, like they're trying to hide. It drives me nuts to look down from the balcony and not see anyone in the middle of the service. So I sit in front to help encourage others to do the same.

Well, it is a Lutheran Church afterall.

From the YMBALI ("You Might be a Lutheran if...") file:

"If you have the uncontrollable urge to sit in the back of any room, ...you might be a Lutheran."

"If the only open pew is up front, so you volunteer to shovel the sidewalk, ...you might be a Lutheran."

"If they have to rope off the last pews in church so the front isn't empty, ...you might be a Lutheran."

[synger]

Well, it is a Lutheran Church afterall.

From the YMBALI ("You Might be a Lutheran if...") file:

"If you have the uncontrollable urge to sit in the back of any room, ...you might be a Lutheran."

"If the only open pew is up front, so you volunteer to shovel the sidewalk, ...you might be a Lutheran."

"If they have to rope off the last pews in church so the front isn't empty, ...you might be a Lutheran."
LOL!!

Since it's summer, and the choir is in recess, I don't have to sit near the back (to make my trip upstairs to the choir loft less intrusive). We let our daughter choose where to sit. The first couple of weeks this summer, she invariably wanted to sit Right In the Front Row!

Then, she realized that when we're in the front, I am much less lenient on her behavior. It's one thing to be in the back and have her sprawled out on the floor coloring. In the front row, she has to sprawl out on the pew instead.

So now we're back to our old spot.

[Lupinus]

Well, it is a Lutheran Church afterall.

From the YMBALI ("You Might be a Lutheran if...") file:

"If you have the uncontrollable urge to sit in the back of any room, ...you might be a Lutheran."

"If the only open pew is up front, so you volunteer to shovel the sidewalk, ...you might be a Lutheran."

"If they have to rope off the last pews in church so the front isn't empty, ...you might be a Lutheran."
LOL, yep everyone does sit in the back, and I definatly sit as far back as humanly possible lol

[Melethiel]

I usually sit in the third or fourth pew from the back.

[dinkime]

we sit half way up on sundays (by the ascension window -- large Jesus -- as my dad says he needs all the help he can get) on the window side

on wednesday nights we sit in the 3rd row from the front (with the cross window) -- on the aisle side