*This* is the problem with "New CF"

[Voegelin]

Perhaps because it is a comfort stop for those who have been abused

Yes...that is the line we hear all the time. We're victims. We are not treated well. We just want understanding. We only want to ask questions. Then I read what they say in other forums (not just the one under discussion here). I see those who flat out state they oppose the majesterium of the Catholic church and stay in the church only to change it into something it never was and never will be. Then, in Catholic forums the same people pull the "poor me" routinue and want "understanding".

Just because Christians express charity doesn't mean they don't know what game is being played.

[GreenMunchkin]

How do you know what is an affront to God?
Jesus was not critical of those who didn't know the Father yet and had a relationship with them; He was critical of the deeds of the Pharisees thoughI'm getting really tired of this Pharisees nonsense. It's such a lazy, nonsensical point to make.

At no point have I been critical of people who don't know God, so you can drop that one. It's a poor attempt to polarize and misdirect what I'm saying so you can class me as an "unloving conservative", and it doesn't fly.

IIDB is an affront to God because it is rife with blashemy, boasts deconversions from Christianity, even celebrating someone converting from Christianity to paganism. These are an affront to God. And we know this because it's in the Bible.

[TasManOfGod]

I'm getting really tired of this Pharisees nonsense. It's such a lazy, nonsensical point to make.

At no point have I been critical of people who don't know God, so you can drop that one. It's a poor attempt to polarize and misdirect what I'm saying so you can class me as an "unloving conservative", and it doesn't fly.

IIDB is an affront to God because it is rife with blashemy, boasts deconversions from Christianity, even celebrating someone converting from Christianity to paganism. These are an affront to God. And we know this because it's in the Bible.
"There are many that say they are Jews and are not" -(so saying they are not now one is meaningless)
Accusations made against the bretheren is what is an affront to God.

[GreenMunchkin]

"There are many that say they are Jews and are not" -(so saying they are not now one is meaningless)
Accusations made against the bretheren is what is an affront to God.Dude, your post is so random I honestly don't even know what to do with it or how to respond so I'm just going to wish you well.

God bless you always.

[Rochir]

What is conservative Christian, white USA? You mean, people can't be conservative Christians and a race other than white?? yikes. :eek: that was pretty racist Rochier. Not a very inclusive attitude...:doh:

i will be sure to inform my daughter (who is not white)and friends (who are not white) that they can't be conservative Christians in the USA! :doh:

LOL, being purposely misunderstiood is quite funny :)

[Rochir]

IIDB has its own mini-CF complain thread...CF has its own mini IIDB complaint thread.

The mind boggles.

I'd call that cross-polination!:clap: ^_^ :clap:

[Hishandmaiden]

Well, I guess it is important to pray for the people at IIDB forums, and christians who are weak in their faiths and who do not have a deep relationship with Jesus Christ.

[Lanakila]

Most of the atheists would find it funny that anyone is praying for them. Yes there is blasphemy over there, but is it really blasphemy when you don't believe that there is a God to offend and are merely joking? Some would be offended by the openness in the swearing over there. (no filter) but, flaming of members is not allowed just like on most boards. Flaming is outright insulting however, not calling what someone said stupid. Smart people can say stupid things and insulting what they said is not a flame.

The reason the threads about other forums are in Elsewhere btw is because the board doesn't consider the discussion of other forums as a valid enough discussion to be in the regular forums. Elsewhere is where the junk goes. That is why the thread titles in elsewhere outside of the CF refugees threads are sometimes offensive, sometimes ridiculous, and often rather unwholesome. Please don't judge the value of the discussion in the other forums by the threads you find in elsewhere. The Philosophical and moral discussions in some of the forums there have lots of depth and will surprise those that think atheists have no morality.

Some of the membership over there are quite famous in their own right in this country either as scientists or atheist activists. Understanding why some feel the need to be atheist activists is actually a healthy undertaking for everyone. (btw I am not an activist and am in the closet irl about my atheism)

[SunMessenger]

Well, I guess it is important to pray for the people at IIDB forums, and christians who are weak in their faiths and who do not have a deep relationship with Jesus Christ.
I agree and prayer is so so important for all of us ...

Sun

[Rochir]

Well, I guess it is important to pray for the people at IIDB forums, and christians who are weak in their faiths and who do not have a deep relationship with Jesus Christ.

I'll pray fopr you as well!:hug:

[CyberPaladin]

Well, I guess it is important to pray for the people at IIDB forums, and christians who are weak in their faiths and who do not have a deep relationship with Jesus Christ.
I concur Hishandmaiden.

[Chococat]

Personally I have no problem with Christians posting as ordinary members of II as they could use the opportunity to witness. However I am pretty concerned that some CF people are Mods there as surely to be a Mod on a forum you have to agree with what it stands for?:scratch: :confused:

[Joykins]

Personally I have no problem with Christians posting as ordinary members of II as they could use the opportunity to witness. However I am pretty concerned that some CF people are Mods there as surely to be a Mod on a forum you have to agree with what it stands for?:scratch: :confused:

IIDB allows a few theists to be moderators, but not Admins. The idea is, they can enforce the rules and split threads and the like but are not involved in policy, I think.

[kimber1]

i wonder if it's dawned on anyone yet with all the moaning about how evil IIDB is and how one shouldn't be involved there, the mere fact that people are kvetching about it here is giving it great publicity.

[meh]

"There are many that say they are Jews and are not" -(so saying they are not now one is meaningless)
Accusations made against the bretheren is what is an affront to God.

Does that include accusations against the bretheren who have tattoos?

[drstevej]

IIDB is what it advertises and seems pretty consistent with it's stated policies. It does not reinvent itself every year or so. It does not WIKI it's identity. For these things I commend them. And I speak as one eternally banned from IIDB, and not sorry that I am.

[SunMessenger]

i wonder if it's dawned on anyone yet with all the moaning about how evil IIDB is and how one shouldn't be involved there, the mere fact that people are kvetching about it here is giving it great publicity.
So ? That can be said about any subject. One must speak to get off their chests that which they need to say . Just like your user title speaks to certain issues. Nothing wrong with free speech . Especially from general members with no titles attached to it. Whether one agrees or disagrees is irrelevant to their need to say it...

Sun

[kimber1]

So ? That can be said about any subject. One must speak to get off their chests that which they need to say . Just like your user title speaks to certain issues. Nothing wrong with free speech . Especially from general members with no titles attached to it. Whether one agrees or disagrees is irrelevant to their need to say it...

Sun
i was just saying....which was/is my right *shrug*

[Davidnic]

i was just saying....which was/is my right *shrug*

And I support that. But the current wiki process does not really give that right to everyone in the Cliqueocracy and Mobocracy that it currently engenders. So there will be threads like this that pop up all over CF.

A sad but true fact.

But we all need to remember a few things:

The mods are working hard and the job is not the best. Even if you don't agree with everyone's view. Love them and pray for them. It's a hard job.

But let everyone speak their voice strongly in love.

Honestly though this process is wearing a lot of people down. To have a voice in it you almost need to put in 7-10 hours a day online. Not everyone can do that. It is very disheartening.

Many who are currently trying to do their best to help will walk away long before any sense is made of all of this.

It was rushed into and poorly executed. In the end, that may be a very difficult thing to overcome as long as people try to push through with the initial reforms in this way.

It needs a careful plan, not a poetic announcement. My advice, fall back a punt. Get a structure for actually getting an accurate feeling of what everyone wants.

I do not support that relativistic vision. But if it is the goal to get an honest pulse of the acutal users and not small groups...then that can not be done the current way without the discord and strife to the level it is causing. In my opinion.

[drstevej]

Excellent observations David

[Annabel Lee]

IIDB is what it advertises and seems pretty consistent with it's stated policies. It does not reinvent itself every year or so. It does not WIKI it's identity. For these things I commend them. And I speak as one eternally banned from IIDB, and not sorry that I am.

Eternally banned...that whole episode still cracks me up.
OOOOooombuzzman.

Since you left, we lost our lead singer for "Kumbayah" :(

[Joykins]

And I support that. But the current wiki process does not really give that right to everyone in the Cliqueocracy and Mobocracy that it currently engenders. So there will be threads like this that pop up all over CF.

A sad but true fact.

But we all need to remember a few things:

The mods are working hard and the job is not the best. Even if you don't agree with everyone's view. Love them and pray for them. It's a hard job.

But let everyone speak their voice strongly in love.

Honestly though this process is wearing a lot of people down. To have a voice in it you almost need to put in 7-10 hours a day online. Not everyone can do that. It is very disheartening.

Many who are currently trying to do their best to help will walk away long before any sense is made of all of this.

It was rushed into and poorly executed. In the end, that may be a very difficult thing to overcome as long as people try to push through with the initial reforms in this way.

It needs a careful plan, not a poetic announcement. My advice, fall back a punt. Get a structure for actually getting an accurate feeling of what everyone wants.

I do not support that relativistic vision. But if it is the goal to get an honest pulse of the acutal users and not small groups...then that can not be done the current way without the discord and strife to the level it is causing. In my opinion.

I agree with the spirit behind the reforms *in general* but I agree that it has been poorly executed. Not, you will notice, that I claim I could have done it *better* ^_^

[SunMessenger]

i was just saying....which was/is my right *shrug*
Once again you have that perfect right . It is so difficult to know where the official CF statement stops and ones own personal comment begins. That should be made clear. As a personal statement I defend your right to say it. If you were speaking as an agent of the CF administration I would disagree and call it an attempt at censorship. That clarification is so important.

[SunMessenger]

I do not support that relativistic vision. But if it is the goal to get an honest pulse of the acutal users and not small groups...then that can not be done the current way without the discord and strife to the level it is causing. In my opinion.This opinion could have easily been researched in advance of implementation and would have taken half the effort it is now taking to complete the processes of the change. If Doctors did procedures without tests taken in advance the lawyers would be very, very happy indeed.

There was no emergency and therefore no reason that this could not have been implemented with some thought and careful actions instead of being sprung on the members. Big administrative blunder there...

Sun

[Debi1967]

This opinion could have easily been researched in advance of implementation and would have taken half the effort it is now taking to complete the processes of the change. If Doctors did procedures without tests taken in advance the lawyers would be very, very happy indeed.

There was no emergency and therefore no reason that this could not have been implemented with some thought and careful actions instead of being sprung on the members. Big administrative blunder there...

Sun
concur

[Mary_Magdalene]

This opinion could have easily been researched in advance of implementation and would have taken half the effort it is now taking to complete the processes of the change. If Doctors did procedures without tests taken in advance the lawyers would be very, very happy indeed.

There was no emergency and therefore no reason that this could not have been implemented with some thought and careful actions instead of being sprung on the members. Big administrative blunder there...

Sun


That would have taken waaay too much time and effort for the site owner. Pleeease! Much easier to throw the changes out there and wait a few months to discuss any of it with the Site Supporters. Maybe then, after ignoring them, most of those Christian site supporters will have left and been replaced with non-Christian ones... (pesky Christians...always bringing up God and the bible in their arguements!)


hopefully, too many members won't leave. Wouldn't want Google to catch on... $$$$$$

:P

[TasManOfGod]

Does that include accusations against the bretheren who have tattoos?
Yes it would
As for accusations againsr the actions of setting up a tattoo and body piercing promotion forum as part of a Christian web site -well that is a different matter

[Debi1967]

Yes it would
As for accusations againsr the actions of setting up a tattoo and body piercing promotion forum as part of a Christian web site -well that is a different matter
When Tas was that ever promoted here? I mean really someone might have brought up the idea as a suggestion in suggest new forums but that does not mean that it would have been done.... You are putting the cart before the horse. Again ......

Also there are many GOOD Christians that have Tats such as ME thank you, and according to you I am not a good Christian because I have them. That was the point we had a rule about not accusing others of not being Christians and you flagrantly dismissed that rule as if it was not written with you in mind.

[TasManOfGod]

When Tas was that ever promoted here? I mean really someone might have brought up the idea as a suggestion in suggest new forums but that does not mean that it would have been done.... You are putting the cart before the horse. Again ......

Also there are many GOOD Christians that have Tats such as ME thank you, and according to you I am not a good Christian because I have them. That was the point we had a rule about not accusing others of not being Christians and you flagrantly dismissed that rule as if it was not written with you in mind.
Oh it was done alright and I was banned for speaking against it
ETA -It was created on May 4 04 so you would have been a member then as well
I have never accused anybody of not being a good Christian because they have tats -it is the promotion of them in the light of God calling the practice unholy that I am concerned about

[Debi1967]

Oh it was done alright and I was banned for speaking against it
You were banned for accusing members of not being True Christians and for trolling

[Davidnic]

This opinion could have easily been researched in advance of implementation and would have taken half the effort it is now taking to complete the processes of the change. If Doctors did procedures without tests taken in advance the lawyers would be very, very happy indeed.

There was no emergency and therefore no reason that this could not have been implemented with some thought and careful actions instead of being sprung on the members. Big administrative blunder there...

Sun

Yep.

[TasManOfGod]

You were banned for accusing members of not being True Christians and for trolling
Can you substantiate that with facts please.

So far nobody has been able to do that so if you could that would be cool -Thanks
Surely you could not be guilty of accusing the brethren of something without substance would you?

[Debi1967]

Can you substantiate that with facts please.
So far nobody has been able to do that so if you could that would be cool -Thanks
You want me to go searching for your threads again ????????????????

besides the rest I cannot reveal due to confidentiality ......

[Debi1967]

Maybe I will PM Erwin and ask him the answer and then ask him if I can use the answer and post it publically..... what do you say should I do that?????

[rushingwind62]

RR and Tas....maybe the 2 of you should take this up in PM. I don't think this is the proper place.

[Joykins]

Maybe I will PM Erwin and ask him the answer and then ask him if I can use the answer and post it publically..... what do you say should I do that?????

I'm sure anyone who wants to read the entire tiresome saga is bored enough to have the spare time to wade through all the ~E~ threads to track them down.

[TasManOfGod]

Actually ragged -I am surprised that you know so much about how I was banned yet you didn't even know that there was a tattoo forum at CF that was at the bottom of it . That surprises me somewhat and tells me that you sources of information are dubious at best

[Debi1967]

I'm sure anyone who wants to read the entire tiresome saga is bored enough to have the spare time to wade through all the ~E~ threads to track them down.
LOL man in my time there which was how long ago I was hearing about it and I am still hearing about it ......It never ends

I was banned unjustly from CF too and later the Admin that banned made it so that I got unbanned thank the Lord but for heaven's sakes you don't hear me talking about it every bloody day

It is water under the bridge

[drstevej]

Tas this is a New CF.. you can request an Anti-tatoo Sub-Forum maybe under Deeper Fellowship.

[TasManOfGod]

As far as I am concerned you can reveal anything about me that you like . I have nothing to hide. I was only upholding God's word on the matter -nothing to be ashamed about there. Sure ask Erwin to get all the elevant data if you like . No problem with me. It might however be little damaging to some staff though -some of whom are in senior positions even now

[Debi1967]

Actually ragged -I am surprised that you know so much about how I was banned yet you didn't even know that there was a tattoo forum at CF that was at the bottom of it . That surprises me somewhat and tells me that you sources of information are dubious at best
:D

But I never knew that it had gone through no because I didn't keep up on that section of the board and that was about the time that I was having a Crisis in my own Faith so other things took precedent

[kimber1]

http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/16.gif

[Debi1967]

http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/16.gif
:D pass me some please

[Debi1967]

How many pages now has Tas been complaining .......hmmmm :tutu::swoon:

[TasManOfGod]

It is not water under the bridge to me when I keep getting wrongfully accused like you did just a few posts ago . Will you please stop doing that and I will stop trying to defend my actions. Thank you

[TasManOfGod]

But I never knew that it had gone through no because I didn't keep up on that section of the board and that was about the time that I was having a Crisis in my own Faith so other things took precedentSo where did you get your information from?

[Debi1967]

It is not water under the bridge to me when I keep getting wrongfully accused like you did just a few posts ago . Will you please stop doing that and I will stop trying to defend my actions. Thank you
Tas why are back here? If this place is so uncomfortable for you then leave it be already, and you were the one that brought the whole thing back up in this thread to begin with!!

[Debi1967]

So where did you get your information from?
Confidentiality under the old rules still stands I cannot reveal that

So stop asking

[kimber1]

How many pages now has Tas been complaining .......hmmmm :tutu::swoon:probably about as many as you i think :scratch:

[TasManOfGod]

Well eat all the pop corn you want while you also watch CFgo down the gurgler because of unresolved situations like I am referring to

[Debi1967]

probably about as many as you i think :scratch:
I am not complaining per se but want to change CF back to some order. This is chaotic.

And I am not hammered in on something that is long since past.

[TasManOfGod]

The only thing "confidentiality " did was to protect staff from their own corruption -it has got nothing to do with protecting the member's privacy -that gets shot to pieces anyway when staff leave with grudges against members and post stuff they got while staff in their own private blogs

[Annabel Lee]

It is not water under the bridge to me when I keep getting wrongfully accused like you did just a few posts ago . Will you please stop doing that and I will stop trying to defend my actions. Thank you

Tas, I know that what they did to you was cruel and unfair but you may not ever get closure on this one.

[rushingwind62]

:help: I feel like I am watching a tennis match....boing....boing....lol

[Debi1967]

The only thing "confidentiality " did was to protect staff from their own corruption -it has got nothing to do with protecting the member's privacy -that gets shot to pieces anyway when staff leave with grudges against members and post stuff they got while staff in their own private blogs
To an extent I agree with you Tas.... I am not going to discount that.

Staff now is more open to hearing input from members even with reports which I think that reform is cool

[Debi1967]

:help: I feel like I am watching a tennis match....boing....boing....lol
shut up hubby LOL

[Joykins]

Hey, if we could turf Tas's tattoo tantrums to here instead of ~E~ this would be all worth it. ^_^ ^_^ Except I don't want the nice people of this forum to have to suffer like we did ^_^ ^_^

[GreenMunchkin]

Yeah, y'all need to discuss this in private. Fo realz yo.

This is kind of unseemly, and no-one else's business.

[rushingwind62]

shut up hubby LOL
foul ball!!!!

[Debi1967]

Hey, if we could turf Tas's tattoo tantrums to here instead of ~E~ this would be all worth it. ^_^ ^_^ Except I don't want the nice people of this forum to have to suffer like we did ^_^ ^_^
NO Way take it back ....:D

[rushingwind62]

Yeah, y'all need to discuss this in private. Fo realz yo.

This is kind of unseemly, and no-one else's business.
I totally agree!!!

[Debi1967]

Yeah, y'all need to discuss this in private. Fo realz yo.

This is kind of unseemly, and no-one else's business.
Oh come on you are ruining our fun GreenMunchkin Not fair

[Joykins]

NO Way take it back ....:D

Hey, *I* am not responsible for this!

I think Tas is great when he's not keeping a record of wrongs, myself...

[Debi1967]

I totally agree!!!
How many times do I have to tell you to shut up hubby :D

[Debi1967]

Hey, *I* am not responsible for this!

I think Tas is great when he's not keeping a record of wrongs, myself...
So do I he can actually be a nice guy when he is having any other convo but this one .......

[TasManOfGod]

Joykins Is it fair to laugh at somebody with justifiable concerns. Is this the reasoon why you were chosen as ombudsperson at one time?

[Debi1967]

Actually in all seriousness and not playing around we are seriously off topic ..... me included maybe we should get back on it

[Debi1967]

Joykins Is it fair to laugh at somebody with justifiable concerns. Is this the reasoon why you were chosen as ombudsperson at one time?
We are kidding sorry if you took offense

[Joykins]

Tas, it all happened years before I even knew about CF...the ban was lifted. Subsequent attempts to railroad you failed. You're a great guy and I really think it's time to move on.

[Sothron]

I would like to kindly suggest to either take this to PMs or at least provide some kind of history to put this sidetrack conversation into context. No one knows what you folks are talking about outside of three or four people. So please either keep it in PMs or provide historical context if you are seeking for a third party's perspective on what happened.

[TasManOfGod]

Tas, it all happened years before I even knew about CF...the ban was lifted. Subsequent attempts to railroad you failed. You're a great guy and I really think it's time to move on.
Well I know you all get a good laugh out of kicking whatever love of the bretheren I still have in me so perhaps I just will continue to entertain you eh?

[Debi1967]

I would like to kindly suggest to either take this to PMs or at least provide some kind of history to put this sidetrack conversation into context. No one knows what you folks are talking about outside of three or four people. So please either keep it in PMs or provide historical context if you are seeking for a third party's perspective on what happened.
That is it Sothron it all happened so long ago it really should not be a topic of conversation at all ...... In reality people should be able to forgive and move forward to what now is the issue we have to deal with.

How is the new CF affecting us? I think we should just let the whole conversation die because I don't even think it is good to take to PMS for the party concerned that was banned, it just keeps it fresh in his mind.

[Debi1967]

Well I know you all get a good laugh out of kicking whatever love of the bretheren I still have in me so perhaps I just will continue to entertain you eh?
Let it die Brother forgiveness is something that is hard to do but we must

[rushingwind62]

Back to the regularly scheduled program....will the chaos ever end? Everywhere I go on cf I see chaos breaking out because everything is in limbo. The mods can't really moderate at this point because everyone is setting up the rules. Once the rules are set in stone, will the chaos end??

[Joykins]

Context with an attempt at neutral POV.

1. Body art forum at CF established in dark ages.
2. Tas outraged because Leviticus forbids tattoos.
3. Tas quotes Leviticus ad infinitum and warns against tattoing in tattoo forum.
4. Tas banned for trolling and spamming in tattoo forum. Tas outraged at being banned for quoting scripture.
5. Tas's ban lifted by Erwin because Tas is a nice guy.
6. Body art forum re-thought and removed (at some point, not sure when).
7. Tas continues to post at ~E~ for years about how horrible some CF mods were for banning him for upholding the Word of God. If he uses the word "Pharisees" its those he considers the "pro-tattoo" contingent at fault.

[Joykins]

I laugh at everything Tas. I am sorry if I offended you.

[Debi1967]

Back to the regularly scheduled program....will the chaos ever end? Everywhere I go on cf I see chaos breaking out because everything is in limbo. The mods can't really moderate at this point because everyone is setting up the rules. Once the rules are set in stone, will the chaos end??
In Wiki there is no such thing as something being set in stone as the minute they are enacted someone may indeed create wiki to undo them all .......A wiki is unfortunately a neverending work in progress that can be changed and edited at anytime by any user.

The question is do we want this or not and the constant flux or constant instability this will create in our forums.....

[Sothron]

Context with an attempt at neutral POV.

1. Body art forum at CF established in dark ages.
2. Tas outraged because Leviticus forbids tattoos.
3. Tas quotes Leviticus ad infinitum and warns against tattoing in tattoo forum.
4. Tas banned for trolling and spamming in tattoo forum. Tas outraged at being banned for quoting scripture.
5. Tas's ban lifted by Erwin because Tas is a nice guy.
6. Body art forum re-thought and removed (at some point, not sure when).
7. Tas continues to post at ~E~ for years about how horrible some CF mods were for banning him for upholding the Word of God. If he uses the word "Pharisees" its those he considers the "pro-tattoo" contingent at fault.

Interesting. I can understand the hurt feelings but why keep posting in a forum that was bound to bother you and keep essentially trolling it? I can see why he felt the need to "preach" at them and why the mods had to enforce site rules.

I hope all involved have gotten over it but this thread seems to indicate otherwise. :(

(That BTW is the third party perspective I was gathering an appeal was being subconciously aimed at by all involved)

[TasManOfGod]

I would like to kindly suggest to either take this to PMs or at least provide some kind of history to put this sidetrack conversation into context. No one knows what you folks are talking about outside of three or four people. So please either keep it in PMs or provide historical context if you are seeking for a third party's perspective on what happened.
It is really a simple matter:

Request made for tattoo forum on CF
Tas objects
Tas condemned for objecting
Tatoo forum started
Tas makes posts in tttoo forum with scripture verse in signature
Tas given 2 warnings
Tas told to take scripture vers out
Tas uses title "advocate ink free skin"
Tas gets another warning
Tas gets banned for 3 months for "trolling"
Erwin says Tas was not trolling
Ban lifted but not warnings)
Thread starts in "Christian Advice" about tattoos
Lots of posts appear encourging getting tattoos
Tas answers each with concerns on bsis of God's word
Tas gets E banned and all positive advice in thread removed leaving the only "Christian " advice that tattoos are cool
Erwin steps in again and lifts E ban
AA puts another warning on me perhaps to save face or something -who knows but warning for upholding God's word now amount to 5
Tas goes into my own fellowship forum to seek support because of not being able to post Scripture
Tas gets another warning for referring to staff actions
Tas complains in report about a tattoo enthusiest invading the fellowship forum with a provcative display of a dagger superimposed on a Cross (this was the same member who had complained about Tas using a Scripture vers in his signature)
Tas gets his 7th warning because he happened to mention the scripture vers in his report of the offending post
Tas finds out he is now IP banned as well and has no means of contact for appeal
Despite Tas snding about 100 emails via "contact us" there was no reply given


Now since then I was gratefully "rescued" by some IIDB folk who accepted me despite my "despicable" posting history at CF I have not been able to get a simple explanation or apology for what I believe has been some of the most devilish behaviour from a message board let alone a Christian one

I hope this fills you in on Tas's saga in this

[Joykins]

I'd like to point out also that Tas has made some major contributions in terms of graphic art to CF. I think the banner when I arrived here was his work.

[rushingwind62]

It is really a simple matter:

Request made for tattoo forum on CF
Tas objects
Tas condemned for objecting
Tatoo forum started
Tas makes posts in tttoo forum with scripture verse in signature
Tas given 2 warnings
Tas told to take scripture vers out
Tas uses title "advocate ink free skin"
Tas gets another warning
Tas gets banned for 3 months for "trolling"
Erwin says Tas was not trolling
Ban lifted but not warnings)
Thread starts in "Christian Advice" about tattoos
Lots of posts appear encourging getting tattoos
Tas answers each with concerns on bsis of God's word
Tas gets E banned and all positive advice in thread removed leaving the only "Christian " advice that tattoos are cool
Erwin steps in again and lifts E ban
AA puts another warning on me perhaps to save face or something -who knows but warning for upholding God's word now amount to 5
Tas goes into my own fellowship forum to seek support because of not being able to post Scripture
Tas gets another warning for referring to staff actions
Tas complains in report about a tattoo enthusiest invading the fellowship forum with a provcative display of a dagger superimposed on a Cross (this was the same member who had complained about Tas using a Scripture vers in his signature)
Tas gets his 7th warning because he happened to mention the scripture vers in his report of the offending post
Tas finds out he is now IP banned as well and has no means of contact for appeal
Despite Tas snding about 100 emails via "contact us" there was no reply given


Now since then I was gratefully "rescued" by some IIDB folk who accepted me despite my "despicable" posting history at CF I have not been able to get a simple explanation or apology for what I believe has been some of the most devilish behaviour from a message board let alone a Christian one

I hope this fills you in on Tas's saga in this
Taz.....no need to derail this thread any further than it already has been....It is time to let it go or start your own thread!

[Debi1967]

Back to the regularly scheduled program....will the chaos ever end? Everywhere I go on cf I see chaos breaking out because everything is in limbo. The mods can't really moderate at this point because everyone is setting up the rules. Once the rules are set in stone, will the chaos end??
In Wiki there is no such thing as something being set in stone as the minute they are enacted someone may indeed create wiki to undo them all .......A wiki is unfortunately a neverending work in progress that can be changed and edited at anytime by any user.

The question is do we want this or not and the constant flux or constant instability this will create in our forums.....

[kimber1]

make a wiki taz!!!!!!

[Sothron]

It is really a simple matter:

Request made for tattoo forum on CF
Tas objects
Tas condemned for objecting
Tatoo forum started
Tas makes posts in tttoo forum with scripture verse in signature
Tas given 2 warnings
Tas told to take scripture vers out
Tas uses title "advocate ink free skin"
Tas gets another warning
Tas gets banned for 3 months for "trolling"
Erwin says Tas was not trolling
Ban lifted but not warnings)
Thread starts in "Christian Advice" about tattoos
Lots of posts appear encourging getting tattoos
Tas answers each with concerns on bsis of God's word
Tas gets E banned and all positive advice in thread removed leaving the only "Christian " advice that tattoos are cool
Erwin steps in again and lifts E ban
AA puts another warning on me perhaps to save face or something -who knows but warning for upholding God's word now amount to 5
Tas goes into my own fellowship forum to seek support because of not being able to post Scripture
Tas gets another warning for referring to staff actions
Tas complains in report about a tattoo enthusiest invading the fellowship forum with a provcative display of a dagger superimposed on a Cross (this was the same member who had complained about Tas using a Scripture vers in his signature)
Tas gets his 7th warning because he happened to mention the scripture vers in his report of the offending post
Tas finds out he is now IP banned as well and has no means of contact for appeal
Despite Tas snding about 100 emails via "contact us" there was no reply given


Now since then I was gratefully "rescued" by some IIDB folk who accepted me despite my "despicable" posting history at CF I have not been able to get a simple explanation or apology for what I believe has been some of the most devilish behaviour from a message board let alone a Christian one

I hope this fills you in on Tas's saga in this

This makes me very glad we can all see moderation activity. If the events happened exactly as you described them then it looks like you were wronged. I am sorry you had to go through that.

Does it help that others agreed with you and you are now free to post again? I know it does not justify what happened but at least some justice was had at the end?

[tel0004]

Getting a bit back on topic, I wanted to check out this ~E~ thread, so I made a user name. It really wasn't too interesting, so I figured I would post my IIDB user name and password in case anybody else wants to check it out. Its registered to a junkmail account anyway, so I'm not worried about people spamming me, but hurry up, since I'm guessing I will be banned, or have my password changed in minutes.

IIDB Username: Randomperson
Password: 1235

[TasManOfGod]

This makes me very glad we can all see moderation activity. If the events happened exactly as you described them then it looks like you were wronged. I am sorry you had to go through that.

Does it help that others agreed with you and you are now free to post again? I know it does not justify what happened but at least some justice was had at the end?
Yes with no small thanks to IIDB too by the way
I really dont think justice is done because one of the main players is still active on staff

[TasManOfGod]

I'd like to point out also that Tas has made some major contributions in terms of graphic art to CF. I think the banner when I arrived here was his work.
Actually my winning banner contribution is still there in the "link to us " page, and yes the page header has long since gone :)

[drstevej]

Getting a bit back on topic, I wanted to check out this ~E~ thread, so I made a user name. It really wasn't too interesting, so I figured I would post my IIDB user name and password in case anybody else wants to check it out. Its registered to a junkmail account anyway, so I'm not worried about people spamming me, but hurry up, since I'm guessing I will be banned, or have my password changed in minutes.

IIDB Username: Randomperson
Password: 1235

Someone posted this user name and password on CF so I thought I'd use it to drop by and say, "HI."

Sally Mae

http://www.buttpaste.com/custom/images/babyTop1.jpg

That Buzz is at it again

[meh]

Tas is a good guy. Give him a break. I baited him and we all know it.

But my point stands. What I may personally see as being "righteous" can be seen by the brethren as being accusatory. Or hurtful. There is no way around this anymore. Some of us are conservative and don't like the changes for various reasons and we're being thought of as mean and I'm not sure there is anyway to bridge the gap with the atheists or other non-Christians who are hurt by that. Some like the changes and would be considered liberal and are accused of being not Christiany enough.

There is plenty of accusing going on all over the place. I'd just like it to stop. However, since I'm also judgmental, I'll just call myself a mean hypocrite and shut up now since this has nothing to do with IIDB, which I think long ago was the point of this thread.

[Debi1967]

Wonderful now that we have established that we can complain on both boards about the other board this should get delicious

Someone pass the popcorn please because this is no longer a convo it is a side show

ETA- I like cheese popcorn preferably cheddar

[Goodchild]

..

[drstevej]

That Buzz is at it again

You have been banned for the following reason:
Temporary Suspension while user status is reviewed.
Date the ban will be lifted: July 26, 2007, 03:00 PM


Didn't take long.

[Debi1967]

Fundamentalist Christians are not the only Conservative Christians that make up the population of this board.

Also I got my Tattoos before I turned Catholic and Conservative Christian ... according to Tas that still makes me wrong

[Goodchild]

..

[TasManOfGod]

I have a question for you Sothron :)

How is this any different from the complaints of many conservative christians at CF right now? Such as those who refuse to allow an LDS congregation forum? Wouldn't your same advice apply equally to them?

I'm also not understanding how people here can be so dismissive of what was done to Tas, when he is taking a historical, orthodox and conservative view on the position of tattoos? When I was a fundamentalist christian, I would have absolutely been right by his side to say that tattoos were forbidden by God and a 'christian' website should not be promoting them.

When did having tattoos go the way of relativism and post-modernistic revision and become completely acceptable by christians (particularly conservative christians) when the bible still forbids them?

I think not only has Tas been hard done by here at CF in the past, but he is being so done yet again. If anything, it seems you folk should be totally agreeing with him on this issue and just as up in arms about his mistreatment as he is. Explain to me why breaking this command of God is ok, but the others aren't? Thanks in advance :)
You deserve reps but alas I have turned mine off Nonetheless please standby :)

[TasManOfGod]

Fundamentalist Christians are not the only Conservative Christians that make up the population of this board.

Also I got my Tattoos before I turned Catholic and Conservative Christian ... according to Tas that still makes me wrong
No it doesn't. Who told you that?

[Spherical Time]

Getting a bit back on topic, I wanted to check out this ~E~ thread, so I made a user name. It really wasn't too interesting, so I figured I would post my IIDB user name and password in case anybody else wants to check it out. Its registered to a junkmail account anyway, so I'm not worried about people spamming me, but hurry up, since I'm guessing I will be banned, or have my password changed in minutes.

IIDB Username: Randomperson
Password: 1235Please don't do that. Thanks.

[Debi1967]

This forum did not exist until; the changes took place that is first off.

Secondly, I am not a bad Christian simply because I have Tattoos in fact they have nothing to do with my Christianity thank you very much....

Thirdly Jesus died to cover all my sins not some.

Fourth the old Law that was given to Moses as in the ten commandments was not done away with but other than that maybe we need to reassess some things here because then all women that are not married should be covered from head to toe under the old law certain types of clothing were not permitted under the old law eating certain types of food under the law was not permitted ect ect

What about all the LAWS they then should all be upheld but I am not Jewish and I am not obliged to the old Law as there is neither Jew nor Greek there is only One New man and One new Covenant under Jesus Christ.....

[GreenMunchkin]

Please don't do that. Thanks.LOL! :D

[Debi1967]

You in ~E~ when I said I had Tattoos to begin with a long time ago....

[Debi1967]

Oh and I personally do not advocate getting tattoos either they are painful and I waited until I was in my thirties to get them knowing I would have to live with them but I am already regretting geting one of them

[Spherical Time]

LOL! :D:wave:

[TasManOfGod]

It is rather amazing is it not that a humanist maintains a greater understanding of conservative Christianity than those who would want to describe themselves as that

May God bless you abundantly my friend

[Goodchild]

..

[Goodchild]

..

[Debi1967]

It is rather amazing is it not that a humanist maintains a greater understanding of conservative Christianity than those who would want to describe themselves as that

May God bless you abundantly my friend
Gal 3:26 For you are all the children of God, by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you be Christ's, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.

[rushingwind62]

regardless of all of our pasts...GOD'S GRACE AND MERCY RULE!!!! If that ain't awesome nothing is...God forgives us, why can't we forgive each other? Tattoo and all!

[Debi1967]

That's great!

But you should be advocating to christians not to get them at all because it goes against God's Will :groupray: That's the best reason of all, neh?
Please show me where

Honestly I would like to know that is not being sarcastic

[rushingwind62]

:confused:I can figure out 2 plus 2 = 4....but for the life of me I can't figure out what this all has to do with the op's original post???????:confused:

[TasManOfGod]

Of course God forgives for havoing tattoos Y'all have a good read of Goodchild's posts -they carry more wisdom than I have yet seen in this thread

[Goodchild]

..

[Goodchild]

..

[Debi1967]

ev 19:20 If a man carnally lie with a woman that is a bondservant and marriageable, and yet not redeemed with a price, nor made free: they both shall be scourged: and they shall not be put to death, because she was not a free woman. (There is no longer free nor bonded) So this no longer applies
Lev 19:21 And for his trespass he shall offer a ram to the Lord, at the door of the tabernacle of the testimony.
Lev 19:22 And the priest shall pray for him: and for his sin before the Lord: and he shall have mercy on him, and the sin shall be forgiven.
Lev 19:23 When you shall be come into the land, and shall have planted in it fruit trees, you shall take away the firstfruits of them. The fruit that comes forth shall be unclean to you: neither shall you eat of them.
Lev 19:24 But in the fourth year, all their fruit shall be sanctified, to the praise of the Lord.
Lev 19:25 And in the fifth year you shall eat the fruits thereof, gathering the increase thereof. I am the Lord your God. (Hmm are we coming into a land anymore or has it already been come into? )
This is no longer observed
Lev 19:26 You shall not eat with blood. You shall not divine nor observe dreams. ( but we do and we taold how to in the New Testatment) This is no longer observed
Lev 19:27 Nor shall you cut your hair roundwise: nor shave your beard. (We are allowed to shave our beards) this is unobserved
Lev 19:28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh, for the dead: neither shall you make in yourselves any figures or marks. I am the Lord.

Now I have proven that all the others are no longer observed and why they are not.... Now I will address this one First it talks about making marks into yourself about the DEAD, which I do not wish to see anyone do and secondly it like most other Jewish Law is unobserved and you cannot pick and choose which Laws of the Old Covenat you are going to enforce when these are not enforceable We need to look to the New Covenant with Christ ....

[TasManOfGod]

Jesus has become a sin sacrifice for anybody doing the sin . He didn't eliminate it from being a sin

[Debi1967]

1Co 6:18 Fly fornication. Every sin that a man doth is without the body: but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 Or know you not that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God: and you are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body.

Putting scripture back into it's true context of what it was speaking does a lot for it doesn't it

[Debi1967]

I know that everytime I praise the Lord and ask for forgiveness he gives it to me unconditionally

[Debi1967]

Lev 19:21 And for his trespass he shall offer a ram to the Lord, at the door of the tabernacle of the testimony.
Lev 19:22 And the priest shall pray for him: and for his sin before the Lord: and he shall have mercy on him, and the sin shall be forgiven.I forgot this one

Do we offer up blood sacrifices to the Lord anymore either .....UMMM NO

[porterross]

None of us can keep God's laws, folks. If we could, there would have been no need for Christ's crucifixion.

St. Paul called himself chief of sinners. How could any of us do any better?

[Debi1967]

None of us can keep God's laws, folks. If we could, there would have been no need for Christ's crucifixion.

St. Paul called himself chief of sinners. How could any of us do any better?
Good question and we can't

[Goodchild]

..

[TasManOfGod]

Accepting salvation through Jesus Christ is not a licence to do things that God has declared unholy -whenever He may have declared it . Hey He told Adam and Eve stuff that we still listen to -don't we?

[Debi1967]

Non-Christians and Non-Conservative Christians may post questions but not give answers regarding conservative beliefs. Non-members of the forum also may not give advice to posters who come to this forum looking for help and advice.

Respectfully since Sophia7 is not here I am asking that this be observed here

RAGGEDROBIN

[Joykins]

Romans 6:1-23

[Debi1967]

Accepting salvation through Jesus Christ is not a licence to do things that God has declared unholy -whenever He may have declared it . Hey He told Adam and Eve stuff that we still listen to -don't we?
Like what that because of their sin we are all now stained with Original Sin

[sparklecat]

:confused:I can figure out 2 plus 2 = 4....but for the life of me I can't figure out what this all has to do with the op's original post???????:confused:

Well, the topic drifts a fair bit in the IIDB/CF thread... the CF/IIDB thread may as well do the same :D

[porterross]

Absolutely!

But Paul also repented and prayed for forgiveness. He didn't say he was the chief of sinners and was just gonna go on doing the same old sins and not caring. He regretted that he sinned, even though he knew he could never stop sinning.


Oh, my, yes, as should we all!!!! Confession is necessary continuously and I in no way meant to imply otherwise.
Whew! It's the first portion of Lutheran liturgy and I means it when I says it. :D


Accepting salvation through Jesus Christ is not a licence to do things that God has declared unholy -whenever He may have declared it . Hey He told Adam and Eve stuff that we still listen to -don't we?

Spot on, Brother! Too bad some are led to believe that being born again is a shield from the effects of unrepentant sin. If anything, it makes the burden greater as we now have no excuse for not recognizing our sinful nature and begging forgiveness. Thank God for His grace, mercy and forgiveness. :bow:

[TasManOfGod]

Like what that because of their sin we are all now stained with Original Sin
No Jesus became the second Adam and oblitered the law of sickness sin and death . That does not mean that sickness sin and death does not still exist it just means that the law that we are now under is the law of love in Christ Jesus. It is not an option to go back under the old law and pick up sin again -however if we do there is always repentence.
Now knowing this should we then be a stumbling block for others to stumble?

[SunMessenger]

That would have taken waaay too much time and effort for the site owner. Pleeease! Much easier to throw the changes out there and wait a few months to discuss any of it with the Site Supporters. Maybe then, after ignoring them, most of those Christian site supporters will have left and been replaced with non-Christian ones... (pesky Christians...always bringing up God and the bible in their arguements!)


:P I agree with most of this. Do you think anyone forgot that these screen names represent real people with feelings and concerns ? Lately that seems to be overlooked by some of the powers that be. Perhaps it has turned into a numbers game. I hope not ...

[CyberPaladin]

I agree with most of this. Do you think anyone forgot that these screen names represent real people with feelings and concerns ? Lately that seems to be overlooked by some of the powers that be. Perhaps it has turned into a numbers game. I hope not ...

I wouldn't be surprised if was occuring though it's very easy to do that kind disassoication with message boards and chats regardless of who your and we all need to careful because of that.

[drstevej]

Folks serving on staff for years are give a one or two sentence thanks from the owner if that. (Not a reference to me)

[Sothron]

I have a question for you Sothron :)

How is this any different from the complaints of many conservative christians at CF right now? Such as those who refuse to allow an LDS congregation forum? Wouldn't your same advice apply equally to them?

I'm also not understanding how people here can be so dismissive of what was done to Tas, when he is taking a historical, orthodox and conservative view on the position of tattoos? When I was a fundamentalist christian, I would have absolutely been right by his side to say that tattoos were forbidden by God and a 'christian' website should not be promoting them.

When did having tattoos go the way of relativism and post-modernistic revision and become completely acceptable by christians (particularly conservative christians) when the bible still forbids them?

I think not only has Tas been hard done by here at CF in the past, but he is being so done yet again. If anything, it seems you folk should be totally agreeing with him on this issue and just as up in arms about his mistreatment as he is. Explain to me why breaking this command of God is ok, but the others aren't? Thanks in advance :)

The Orthodox Church does not hold that the OT is completely literal history as some portions of it may be a spiritual truth. I do not know if tattoos are under dogma. I also would stipulate as I said in the female ordination thread that not all conservative Christians can possibly agree on all issues and some degree of disagreement must be allowed.

I would freely submit that something as, forgive me for saying, trivial as tattoos would carry the same weight of conservative or non-conservative as say abortion or gay marriage. I also would point out I acknowledged that what happened to him was not right and I hoped that with others agreeing that it was not just that it may help heal the hurt he obviously felt from the banning(s).

[SunMessenger]

Folks serving on staff for years are give a one or two sentence thanks from the owner if that. (Not a reference to me)
For the record I got a one liner and it never included the word thanks. It said ."I completely understand. No problem." That was so thoughtful . Quite different from what I expected . What is so hard about thank you? I say it to the servers in restaurants and every person I can . Even the bad ones. So sad...

[drstevej]

For the record I got a one liner and it never included the word thanks. It said ."I completely understand. No problem." That was so thoughtful . Quite different from what I expected . What is so hard about thank you? I say it to the servers in restaurants and every person I can . Even the bad ones. So sad...



Well you only had 48,000 posts. Just a noob.

*sigh

[Sothron]

For the record I got a one liner and it never included the word thanks. It said ."I completely understand. No problem." That was so thoughtful . Quite different from what I expected . What is so hard about thank you? I say it to the servers in restaurants and every person I can . Even the bad ones. So sad...



Thank you for what you did for the site and sacrificing your personal time to help maintain it.

[SunMessenger]

Well you only had 48,000 posts. Just a noob.

*sigh
I have hidden it at the moment but a site supporter too. LOL We newbies need a union.

[SunMessenger]

Thank you for what you did for the site and sacrificing your personal time to help maintain it.
You are welcome. It was my pleasure.

[Mary_Magdalene]

Folks serving on staff for years are give a one or two sentence thanks from the owner if that. (Not a reference to me)


yeah, really. but those who have been around here long enough would not expect much more (I didn't). :doh:

[TasManOfGod]

Well at least you got something better than what I got for helping with the site

[drstevej]

Well at least you got something better than what I got for helping with the site

You turned down the nifty CF tattoo.
\

jk

[CFISNOWHERESYFORUMS]

...UberChristians which is even worse than IIDB, because it pretends to be a Christian site.
Are you sure that's UberChristians you are referring to? I could swear that you were talking about CF. Because Pretending to be a Christian site when it isn't squarely defines this new CF.

[kimber1]

funny, i've left staff a couple times and i've always gotten a thank you not to mention i got a pm from him personally when coming back this time welcoming me back.

[SunMessenger]

funny, i've left staff a couple times and i've always gotten a thank you not to mention i got a pm from him personally when coming back this time welcoming me back.
Perhaps you are better than everyone else . Could that be it ? I guess it is the birds of a feather scenario personified. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.

Be well...

Sun

[kimber1]

mmm well i've also been on staff for somehting like 4 years total so..i dunno *shrug*

[SunMessenger]

mmm well i've also been on staff for somehting like 4 years total so..i dunno *shrug*
So you were on before, during and now after these changes. Wow how flexible of you. That says something for flexibility .

Flexibility is nothing like standing for a good cause. It is not always comforting but it is rewarding.

Your fluid personality sort of flows for the good of all. Except "mean people" of course. I guess that sort of goes without saying.
Be Well Always ...

Sun

[Chococat]

There is a forum that people refer to as ~E~ which, for people who don't know, stands for IIDB; Internet Infidels. It's a horrible, horrible place, and I've only ever managed to spend a few minutes there about 3 times. It's sort of the atheistic/humanist counter-point to CF, and they HATE us. Or, rather, used to. I was just reading a thread that got closed down that stated IIDB was where an awful lot of campaigning for non-Christian staff was done, so I went to check.

I don't know how to find my way around, but I do know that many of our esteemed members are mods and members there, and I came across this (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/t172452) thread, completely by accident.

Boasting they've directly caused people to "deconvert"? I do actually want to know why someone who is a mod or member there would wish to be a mod or member here. Even at this forum we don't have a stickied list of people who have accepted the Lord... so why do they have one for people they've led *away*?

IIDB is *rife* with blasphemy and mockery and having people with a foot in both camps is spiritually and Biblically wrong. It's worse than wrong. It fundamentally highlights *exactly* how screwed up this whole thing is and I honestly feel a little sick.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to post this cos, inevitably, someone will sweep in and justify it somehow, and I don't want this to turn into a debate, or an argument. I just feel very, very sad.

Does anyone else think this issue should be brought to the attention of the folk in the spiritual warfare section? Not for the sake of telling tales but because IMHO it gives strong evidence that CF is under attack from the powers of darkness (which isn't to say that all the people who post/mod both here and on IIDB are all devil worshippers before anyone accuses me of saying they are!:doh: )

[drstevej]

Does anyone else think this issue should be brought to the attention of the folk in the spiritual warfare section? Not for the sake of telling tales but because IMHO it gives strong evidence that CF is under attack from the powers of darkness (which isn't to say that all the people who post/mod both here and on IIDB are all devil worshippers before anyone accuses me of saying they are!:doh: )

Here's the folks the Chaplain identifies (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36749771&postcount=1) as workers with the enemy

Those who tell you we need to do X in order to "protect" CF need to be told that they are wrong - "He sends people to your door and you turn them away - while you say "God Bless You, be at peace." THEY are dead. They work more effectively for the enemy than any athiest proselytizer.

[Chococat]

So are you saying that because I don't agree with nonChristians being Mods on this board I am doing the work of the devil?:sigh: I have no problems with nonbelievers being members of this site but surely there's a difference between that and allowing them to be in positions of influence?

[drstevej]

So are you saying that because I don't agree with nonChristians being Mods on this board I am doing the work of the devil?:sigh:

That was Constance's quote. I challenged her on it and it remains unedited.

:doh:

I am one of these
Those who tell you we need to do X in order to "protect" CF

so I guess I am one of those
They work more effectively for the enemy than any athiest proselytizer

in her view.

[Chococat]

Sorry for the misunderstanding as I have read your last post and realise you and I are on the same side:blush: However I am seriously considering whether or not I should stay on a "Christian" site that thinks that those of us who are don't agree with allowing nonbelievers to make the rules are servants of the devil.:mad: :sigh:

[SunMessenger]

Well what was the point in posting it here in that case? I find it extremely hurtful. Well if that's what the people in charge think perhaps I should leave after all you wouldn't want us servants of the devil working for you would you?
No one needs to leave. Everyone needs to speak up. That should have been edited when it was deemed offensive and hurtful. Why it was not is a matter yet to be explained.

[drstevej]

No one needs to leave. Everyone needs to speak up. That should have been edited when it was deemed offensive and hurtful. Why it was not is a matter yet to be explained.

Agreed.

A pastoral team leader with this view concerns me.

[SunMessenger]

Agreed.

A pastoral team leader with this view concerns me.
What could the reason be for this behavior ? Why would someone close to God not go the extra mile to ease the worries of the flock ? These are questions that are perplexing .

[Chococat]

I'm sorry I should have read your last post more carefully and then I would have realised you were not agreeing with constance.:hug: :sorry: :doh: However I am still wondering if staying on this site is the right thing to do and in fact a statement like that just proves my original point about spiritual warfare here! By that reckoning all churches should allow nonbelievers to become pastors or Sunday School workers etc.:eek:

[drstevej]

Hi Chocoat,

No problem in the misread. I am baffled by the floodgates Erwin has opened. Unity without truth is organized rebellion against God.

If Erwin will rename the site and remove the name of Christ, I would at least be relieved that young Christians would not come thinking that what they will find is sound doctrinally.

I am a pastor of 30 years. I would not invite a young Christian here. I wouldn't invite a non Christian here.

[SunMessenger]

I'm sorry I should have read your last post more carefully and then I would have realised you were not agreeing with constance.:hug: :sorry: :doh: However I am still wondering if staying on this site is the right thing to do and in fact a statement like that just proves my original point about spiritual warfare here! By that reckoning all churches should allow nonbelievers to become pastors or Sunday School workers etc.:eek:
I do not leave because it would be giving up to me. That is not in my nature. I will never give up on what is right. I understand why some do leave however...

Sun

[ReformedChapin]

Hi Chocoat,

No problem in the misread. I am baffled by the floodgates Erwin has opened. Unity without truth is organized rebellion against God.

If Erwin will rename the site and remove the name of Christ, I would at least be relieved that young Christians would not come thinking that what they will find is sound doctrinally.

I am a pastor of 30 years. I would not invite a young Christian here. I wouldn't invite a non Christian here.
It's extremely sad that bottomless pit that this site has hit considering it was a great blessing when I first came here. I loved the diversity before when this site still had a Christian feel, now it's just a postmodern hang out with a Christian title.

[Debi1967]

I do not leave because it would be giving up to me. That is not in my nature. I will never give up on what is right. I understand why some do leave however...

Sun
Yeah but are sick people with fevers for two days in a row now allowed to give into their bodies already :D Although I have been trying not to give in I promise ;)

[SunMessenger]

It's extremely sad that bottomless pit that this site has hit considering it was a great blessing when I first came here. I loved the diversity before when this site still had a Christian feel, now it's just a postmodern hang out with a Christian title.I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah but are sick people with fevers for two days in a row now allowed to give into their bodies already :D Although I have been trying not to give in I promise ;):thumbsup:

[drstevej]

now it's just a postmodern hang out with a Christian title.

:amen:

[GraceInHim]

Agreed.

A pastoral team leader with this view concerns me.
she also went on to say the following (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36749771&postcount=1)


If you feel that Erwin has secularized CF, you need to look again. All he's done is take the fence from the Altar so that all may freely partake of the Sacrifice of Love. We have been turning away the liberal, the unorthodox, the unbeliever - and in doing that, we have turned away our Lord and Savior.

I'm not going to let anyone lull you into complacency or safety. The job is not done. Don't close your eyes.

In prayer for you and CF -



St. Paul went to Pagans to talk about Christ.. St. Peter went to Babylon.. not to say anyone who is on CF is pagan. I myself cannot find which church/denomination on CF. Just look at GT; constant debating to no end on whom is right and wrong..

Question Dr Steve, which church/denomination has it ALL RIGHT with Jesus on CF?

Peace

[drstevej]

St. Paul went to Pagans to talk about Christ.. St. Peter went to Babylon..
I am in favor of outreach. Our church has a sizable outreach on campus in the city and in the world. But we do not do it by hiring non Christian staff and opening the pulpit to those who contradict our doctrinal convictions. Non-Christians are welcome to attend our church and do, but they do not WIKI the order of service for us.


Question Dr Steve, which church/denomination has it ALL RIGHT with Jesus on CF?
Peace

That is not the point. CF has for years stood on the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God as a litmus test for staff and posting restrictions (especially areas where there are young believers).

Erwin broke the Nicene/Trinitarian levee and the place flooded with relativism and heresy. Then he tells Conservatives... grab a Nicene lock for your Congregational FEMA Trailers and also get a WIKI mop to help clean this up.

CF was never an attempt at perfect doctrine on all points. Nor have I ever expected that. It did however (per Erwin's once resolute conviction) see the Creed and Trinitarian as uncompromisable.

[Chococat]

We have been turning away the liberal, the unorthodox, the unbeliever - and in doing that, we have turned away our Lord and Savior


What a load of rubbish! People of all beliefs have been allowed to freely post on this site (rightly so IMO) so we've hardly been "turning them away". In fact even before the changes I have been noticing disturbing trends on other sections of the site where nonbelievers have given unScriptural and indeed harmful advice to struggling Christians (I don't want to go into too much detail here) and the post have been allowed to remain.:mad:

[GraceInHim]

I am in favor of outreach. Our church has a sizable outreach on campus in the city and in the world. But we do not do it by hiring non Christian staff and opening the pulpit to those who contradict our doctrinal convictions. Non-Christians are welcome to attend our church and do, but they do not WIKI the order of service for us.
understandable, OTOH, how do we know who is really truly following Christ or whom have been; are staff truly christians? Being on staff myself, have seen some staffers not follow Christ-like ways, the NC is just like a marriage certificate, people screw up, make mistakes and learn from them. Maybe you and others including myself reach out more on CF to those whom are lost and whom seem like leapers?



That is not the point. CF has for years stood on the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God as a litmus test for staff and posting restrictions (especially areas where there are young believers).

You know how I learned about the NC? From CF.. never followed it before, just me and my Bible. Then went to churches around town, never once did any of the churches talk about the NC.


Erwin broke the Nicene/Trinitarian levee and the place flooded with relativism and heresy. Then he tells Conservatives... grab a Nicene lock for your Congregational FEMA Trailers and also get a WIKI mop to help clean this up.

Maybe we can try to see how things go first. Give this a shot.. the last reforms seem to not go good; rules were too legalistic.

CF was never an attempt at perfect doctrine on all points. Nor have I ever expected that. It did however (per Erwin's once resolute conviction) see the Creed and Trinitarian as uncompromisable
If we cannot say whom is the true group on CF which truly follows Christ, then we cannot judge those whom do not follow Christ; we can only reach out to them, show love and if we ourselves have faith as a mustard seed, we can do many things; we should not worry about what happens with CF.

Peace

[ReformedChapin]

understandable, OTOH, how do we know who is really is truly following Christ or whom have been; are staff truly christians? Being on staff myself, have seen some staffers not follow Christ-like ways, the NC is just like a marriage certificate, people screw up, make mistakes and learn from them. Maybe you and others including myself reach out more on CF to those whom are lost and whom seem like leapers?



You know how I learned about the NC? From CF.. never followed it before, just me and my Bible. Then went to churches around town, never once did any of the churches talk about the NC.


Maybe we can try to see how things go first. Give this a shot.. the last reforms seem to not go good; rules were too legalistic.


If we cannot say whom is the true group on CF which truly follows Christ, then we cannot judge those whom do not follow Christ; we can only reach out to them, show love and if we ourselves have faith as a mustard seed, we can do many things; we should not worry about what happens with CF.

Peace
This isn't about judging, it's about keeping the integraty of the Christian system. And I am worried about CF since it has a potential to reach many through out the world. It can do so in a positive way which did once in the past or it can become like many mainline demnominations a postmodern hang out spot.

[drstevej]

understandable, OTOH, how do we know who is really truly following Christ or whom have been; are staff truly christians? Being on staff myself, have seen some staffers not follow Christ-like ways, the NC is just like a marriage certificate, people screw up, make mistakes and learn from them. Maybe you and others including myself reach out more on CF to those whom are lost and whom seem like leapers?



You know how I learned about the NC? From CF.. never followed it before, just me and my Bible. Then went to churches around town, never once did any of the churches talk about the NC.


Maybe we can try to see how things go first. Give this a shot.. the last reforms seem to not go good; rules were too legalistic.


If we cannot say whom is the true group on CF which truly follows Christ, then we cannot judge those whom do not follow Christ; we can only reach out to them, show love and if we ourselves have faith as a mustard seed, we can do many things; we should not worry about what happens with CF.

Peace

Would you accept changing the name to ...

Post Modern Christian Forums

[GraceInHim]

This isn't about judging, it's about keeping the integraty of the Christian system.
Christian systems can only have intregraty with those whom are members here, either they act Christ-like or not. That is a hard to follow, for everyone makes mistakes here, no one is perfect. But we can learn by our mistakes.

And I am worried about CF since it has a potential to reach many through out the world. It can do so in a positive way which did once in the past or it can become like many mainline demnominations a postmodern hang out spot
maybe we can stay positive even to the negative things here on CF, life is short tp worry - jmho.

peace

[GraceInHim]

Would you accept changing the name to ...

Post Modern Christian Forums

NO, maybe a slogan under CF saying "Uniting all in Christ" - it is up to us to do this, even when there are wolves in sheeps clothing, for we cannot prevent this on CF.

[drstevej]

Paul says be on your guard not drop your guard.

[Rochir]

Does anyone else think this issue should be brought to the attention of the folk in the spiritual warfare section? Not for the sake of telling tales but because IMHO it gives strong evidence that CF is under attack from the powers of darkness (which isn't to say that all the people who post/mod both here and on IIDB are all devil worshippers before anyone accuses me of saying they are!:doh: )

http://static.dropline.net/cats/images/i-lold.jpg (http://www.dropline.net/cats/kitty/i-lold)

[GraceInHim]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r307/freecommenttags/Religious/c002897b.gif

peace out :wave:

[Rochir]

So are you saying that because I don't agree with nonChristians being Mods on this board I am doing the work of the devil?:sigh: I have no problems with nonbelievers being members of this site but surely there's a difference between that and allowing them to be in positions of influence?


I'd rather be under the "influence" of a caring, fair and just non-Christian than under that of a mean-spirited unfair and petty Christian!:doh:

[Rochir]

.

[ReformedChapin]

I'd rather be under the "influence" of a caring, fair and just non-Christian than under that of a mean-spirited unfair and petty Christian!:doh:
The liberal jargon gets old pretty quick...

[drstevej]

Ah yes, I forgot! Before 07-07-07 non-Christians and unorthodox Christians were allowed to post in the CO section!

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure ... :doh:

I didn't realize you are a conservative Christian.

[CaDan]

Is Mary the Mother of God?

[drstevej]

Is Mary the Mother of God?

I didn't realize you are a conservative Christian.

[Rochir]

The liberal jargon gets old pretty quick...

You must be talkig about your own jargon, really! :)

[drstevej]

You must be talkig about your own jargon, really! :)
I didn't realize you are a conservative Christian.

[ReformedChapin]

I didn't realize you are a conservative Christian.
Me either..

[drstevej]

I thought the sign on this FEMA Trailer said Conservative Christian.

[Lanakila]

I didn't realize you are a conservative Christian.So is this just the forum to amen and hand slap opinions that you agree with, and keep the riff raff out.


signed--riff raff

[ReformedChapin]

So is this just the forum to amen and hand slap opinions that you agree with, and keep the riff raff out.


signed--riff raff
Nah, it's the forum where you don't get called judgmental for holding to biblical principles.

[Lanakila]

Nah, it's the forum where you don't get called judgmental for holding to biblical principles.But isn't there still debate about what biblical principles are important to hold today, and what ones are part of the old covenant? (btw this is not a debate post but a question)

[SunMessenger]

Is Mary the Mother of God?
Quietly the fuse burns. You are not suppose to play with matches you know. LOL

[SunMessenger]

So is this just the forum to amen and hand slap opinions that you agree with, and keep the riff raff out.


signed--riff raff
Let me think... Umm...

No.

[ReformedChapin]

But isn't there still debate about what biblical principles are important to hold today, and what ones are part of the old covenant? (btw this is not a debate post but a question)
In this forum we hold to a general consensus as to what is important. Of course we don't agree with everything, but the essentials are there.

[Protinus]

Nah, it's the forum where you don't get called judgmental for holding to biblical principles.


yet it's OK to call others "devil worshipers" or "legions of darkness"??:confused:

[TasManOfGod]

Hi Chocoat,

No problem in the misread. I am baffled by the floodgates Erwin has opened. Unity without truth is organized rebellion against God.

If Erwin will rename the site and remove the name of Christ, I would at least be relieved that young Christians would not come thinking that what they will find is sound doctrinally.

I am a pastor of 30 years. I would not invite a young Christian here. I wouldn't invite a non Christian here.
I was in the same state of mind when they had a tattoo and body art promotion forum here and my opinion hasn't changed since due to all the subsequent events.

[drstevej]

yet it's OK to call others "devil worshipers" or "legions of darkness"??:confused:

I think the Chaplain's term is workers for the enemy (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36749771&postcount=1).

[Protinus]

I think the Chaplain's term is workers for the enemy (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36749771&postcount=1).

OH! glad it's not jargon we're talking about!!^_^

[Rochir]

Nah, it's the forum where you don't get called judgmental for holding to biblical principles.

Ah, but you can be called judgemental if you adher to any other principle?

[ReformedChapin]

Ah, but you can be called judgemental if you adher to any other principle?
Says who? And post evidence...

[ReformedChapin]

yet it's OK to call others "devil worshipers" or "legions of darkness"??:confused:
Evidence for this claim..

[drstevej]

Ah, but you can be called judgemental if you adher to any other principle?

http://www.sacredsandwich.com/images/headache.jpg

All this fellowship is giving me a headache.

[Rochir]

Says who? And post evidence...

LOL; funny YOU! :D

[ReformedChapin]

LOL; funny YOU! :D
That's what I thought...

[Protinus]

Evidence for this claim..
http://www.christianforums.com/showp...&postcount=395 (http://www.christianforums.com/showp...&postcount=395)

although, she is not calling others devil worshippers I guess...my misread.

[Rochir]

http://www.sacredsandwich.com/images/headache.jpg

All this fellowship is giving me a headache.

You know, I tend to agree!

http://static.dropline.net/cats/images/pfft.jpg (http://www.dropline.net/cats/kitty/pfft)

[ReformedChapin]

http://www.christianforums.com/showp...&postcount=395 (http://www.christianforums.com/showp...&postcount=395)

although, she is not calling others devil worshippers I guess...my misread.
Link doesn't work...

[TasManOfGod]

Perhaps the changes might stop conservative Christians from being banned for believing the Bible and having no other place to vent their frustrations except that eebil ~E~ place

[kimber1]

So you were on before, during and now after these changes. Wow how flexible of you. That says something for flexibility .

Flexibility is nothing like standing for a good cause. It is not always comforting but it is rewarding.

Your fluid personality sort of flows for the good of all. Except "mean people" of course. I guess that sort of goes without saying.
Be Well Always ...

Sun
you know, i'm pretty sure that was intended as an insult. but still trying to figure it out; too tired to think that hard, eh whatever, get over it.

[Rochir]

yet it's OK to call others "devil worshipers" or "legions of darkness"??:confused:

Of course it is! Conservatives still have special rights here on CF, didn't ya know?

[Miss Shelby]

Of course it is! Conservatives still have special rights here on CF, didn't ya know?
Cosmic Charlie started a thread in ya'lls liberal Christian forum calling conservativism the 'Church of Satan' --and not one of you said boo to him. But it's bad for conservatives to say things like this and when they do they have 'special rights'?

You guys now have the same right to say whatever you want in your own forum. For the love of sweet little fishies stop making yourselves out to be victims, already.

[Rochir]

Cosmic Charlie started a thread in ya'lls liberal Christian forum calling conservativism the 'Church of Satan' --and not one of you said boo to him. .

Link please!?

[Miss Shelby]

Link please!?
http://www.christianforums.com/t5736044-church-of-satan-neo-conservativism-modern-republicans.html

[Protinus]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5736044-church-of-satan-neo-conservativism-modern-republicans.html


Ummm....the sub-forum was days old...we had hardly the capacity to discern the "magnitude" or "irony" of his post, much less check our near non-existent Wiki-fied rules or check our "downtrodden" index. I forgot about it it until you mentioned it and I discovered Charlie was basically having a dialogue with himself!! Maybe you popped in once.

[Miss Shelby]

Ummm....the sub-forum was days old...we had hardly the capacity to discern the "magnitude" or "irony" of his post, much less check our near non-existent Wiki-fied rules or check our "downtrodden" index. I forgot about it it until you mentioned it and I discovered Charlie was basically having a dialogue with himself!! Maybe you popped in once.
Is this what you do when backed into a corner? Start speaking incoherently but pretend all the same that you're addressing the point?

Did he or did he not call neo-conservativism (meaning every conservative on this board)-- the Church of Satan? Did others respond or was it only Charlie?

Look, I don't care what you guys say. Say whatever you want-- and don't get all bent out of shape about what some other clown says about liberalism-- and for the love of sweet sanity STOP with the guilt trips.

[Protinus]

Is this what you do when backed into a corner? Start speaking incoherently but pretend all the same that you're addressing the point?

Did he or did he not call neo-conservativism (meaning every conservative on this board)-- the Church of Satan? Did others respond or was it only Charlie?

Look, I don't care what you guys say. Say whatever you want-- and don't get all bent out of shape about what some other clown says about liberalism-- and for the love of sweet sanity STOP with the guilt trips.
what corner? you can tilt all you want...I'm just saying that's not a good example for your "pot calling the kettle" argument.

[Miss Shelby]

Oh whatever Prot. Get all bent out of shape about some doof making a devil worship claim, but whatever you do, DON'T hold your fellow liberal friends to the same standards of behavior.



...........

[kimber1]

it looks to me after skimming that he compared the POLICIES the they hold to what the CoS holds as well.

[Protinus]

it looks to me after skimming that he compared the POLICIES the they hold to what the CoS holds as well.


I'm still trying to figure why that thread supports her "pot/kettle" argument...I don't even understand his point really in that thread. Perhaps he was testing the approriateness of the topic in the new forum- Republicans=CoS??:confused:

[Grizzly]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5736044-church-of-satan-neo-conservativism-modern-republicans.html

That thread is out of place. It needs to go to general politics. We get threads like those all the time. We can put it next to clirus' weekly "atheistic liberals are taking over the country and its time we went to war" threads.

His post is a political rant, not a religious one.

[SunMessenger]

you know, i'm pretty sure that was intended as an insult. but still trying to figure it out; too tired to think that hard, eh whatever, get over it.
Let me think... Umm...

No.

[Protinus]

That thread is out of place. It needs to go to general politics. We get threads like those all the time. We can put it next to clirus' weekly "atheistic liberals are taking over the country and its time we went to war" threads.

His post is a political rant, not a religous one.

I will ask the group about moving it...I don't want to moderate the group...they must have the ability to chose their own moderators and things are just too new to do that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Grizzly]

I will ask the group about moving it...I don't want to moderate the group...they must have the ability to chose their own moderators and things are just too new to do that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Hey Prot - good to see you over here!

I wasn't calling for its removal. As you said, its up to them. I was just saying that particular OP is very similar to others in GP. We often get discussions that communism/neoconservatism/liberalism/socialism are of the devil.

[GreenMunchkin]

Why are you discussing this in this forum? :scratch:

Not the place for it.

[Protinus]

Why are you discussing this in this forum? :scratch:

Not the place for it.

You are right, it was brought up that this might be offensive to conservative christians and I'm trying to change it. I'll withdraw now, I apologize.

[GreenMunchkin]

You are right, it was brought up that this might be offensive to conservative christians and I'm trying to change it. I'll withdraw now, I apologize.No need. I don't know what "this" is, and what you're saying to one another isn't offensive, bro. Just, genuinely confused as to why you're discussing a WWMC political thread in this forum, as it's not the place for it.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't here. Just means it's confusing.

[Grizzly]

No need. I don't know what "this" is, and what you're saying to one another isn't offensive, bro. Just, genuinely confused as to why you're discussing a WWMC political thread in this forum, as it's not the place for it.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't here. Just means it's confusing.

Some threads wander like the mighty mississip...

[GreenMunchkin]

Some threads wander like the mighty mississip...Y'all need to rename some of your stuff, you know. Mississipi... Tennessee... either or both may be spelt wrong.

I suggest you change them to Bob, and Alan.

[Grizzly]

Y'all need to rename some of your stuff, you know. Mississipi... Tennessee... either or both may be spelt wrong.

I suggest you change them to Bob, and Alan.

The Mighty Bob does have a certain ring to it...

And I live in Tallahassee. Apparently this is what happens when you remove native americans from their lands but keep their names.

[GreenMunchkin]

The Mighty Bob does have a certain ring to it...

And I live in Tallahassee. Apparently this is what happens when you remove native americans from their lands but keep their names.The Mighty Bob sounds like a second rate magician... kids parties, retirement homes. He's struggling to pay the rent. Doesn't do justice to something awesome that has crocodiles in it. Could rename it Steve...

Too soon?

New York area seems to have th