Request for vote on new sub forum name

[Protinus]

Please suggest a new sub-title as well; the current title is gramatically incorrect anyway: should be "Catholic who..." rather than "Catholics that...

[drstevej]

1-0

I move we close the poll.




j/k

[Protinus]

steve, you ARE a contributer...this is an open forum...please vote.

[CaDan]

"Nosta Aetate" ~ In Our Time.

[JasonV]

I suggest we close the poll within 48 hours of opening.

[Protinus]

OK jason...I'll change the poll...

[in2Nas]

"Nosta Aetate" ~ In Our Time.

I voted for this one.

[boughtwithaprice]

I voted for the Lord's table. I like the sound of Nostra Aetate, but I like the open invitation of the Lord's Table better.

[Pogue]

I voted for the second option, but I think both are great suggestions, so I don't mind either way :)

[Rebekka]

Shouldn't it be nostra aetate then?

[Rochir]

Nosta Aetate sounds so traditional.... I voted for the Lord's Table :)

[JasonV]

The Latin is beautiful, but I'd hate for it to turn away someone just because it is Latin.

[Rochir]

What does it mean? Our ... sumthing?

[Protinus]

The Latin is beautiful, but I'd hate for it to turn away someone just because it is Latin.

very perceptive Jason...just like the Latin mass is beautiful...but it separates us in the vernacular.

[JasonV]

I'm actually a fan of Church Latin, but I don't want the wrong impression given out by using a Latin name. My personal opinion, but I'll respect whatever the board chooses.

PS. It's about time to vote on the Wiki as well, no?

[Protinus]

What does it mean? Our ... sumthing?

"In Our Time"

[Protinus]

PS. It's about time to vote on the Wiki as well, no?

Yes!!!

[JasonV]

I trust you'll set up our poll then? (Maybe we should wait until this one closes though?)

[Fish and Bread]

I think there are good cases to be made for both choices and I'll be happy with whatever the find results are. For those interested, though, this is why I voted for option #2:

1. I think Latin is cool. :)
2. I like the tension between using an ancient language and the meaning of the words "In our Time". Simultaneously, it gives one a sense of both timelessness and also of being rooted in the present, which, when one thinks about it, is a good metaphor for what the Church has always attempted to do.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

i voted for the Lord's Table
the other choice was too hard to pronounce and many people wouldnt know what it meant anyway..

[kimber1]

when does this poll close?

[Protinus]

12:52 am tonight (tommorow morning). Thanks for voting!! Please vote!

[kimber1]

my bad, i just noticed the date up there. :P

[Protinus]

my bad, i just noticed the date up there. :P


sorry I missed it too...11:04 pm tonight, my mistake.

[JasonV]

That's 11:04pm Eastern Time. 9:04pm Mountain Time. ;)

[Protinus]

That's 11:04pm Eastern Time. 9:04pm Mountain Time. ;)

RebeccaH has already posted from Holland, do we have any left coasters or Aussies?

[JasonV]

Will this go as well?

"A forum for Catholics that disagree with the Catholic Church on key issues."

[Protinus]

Will this go as well?

"A forum for Catholics that disagree with the Catholic Church on key issues."

Yes, imho...

[Loki]

i'm a left-coaster. I'm so left-coast that I live in that Mecca of all things liberal, the BAY AREA.

If previous posting times seemed not left-coast, it was 'cause I've been in Switzerland for the past two weeks.

[Protinus]

i'm a left-coaster. I'm so left-coast that I live in that Mecca of all things liberal, the BAY AREA.

If previous posting times seemed not left-coast, it was 'cause I've been in Switzerland for the past two weeks.


But you haven't voted for the name!! Don't shortchange NYC as a liberal mecca as well!! Come to think of it, Jason is a diamond in the rough coming from conservative Wyoming!!

[JasonV]

But you haven't voted for the name!! Don't shortchange NYC as a liberal mecca as well!! Come to think of it, Jason is a diamond in the rough coming from conservative Wyoming!!

True enough, but I did serve my mission in the Bay Area! ;)

Loki...ever been to hell...er I mean Vallejo?

[Loki]

I'm not all that crazy about either of the names; the first will just cause others to say that we're cafeteria Catholics, and the second is fairly obscure Latin. But i don't have anything better to suggest.

[Loki]

Nope, just been to the various centralish East bay areas, and of course SF. Gotta love those sea lions.

Planning on a trip to Monterey in a month or so when DH returns from the land of Chocolate and Cheese and Watches.

[Loki]

NYC may be a liberal mecca, but Berkeley has the stupid circle of land that no nation can claim, nor the air above it. And people's park. And SF has the Haight. And periodically a bunch of bicyclists decide to gang up and shut down the roads by riding en masse and ignoring traffic laws. And people protested a research facility for alternate fuels because they think that it's not really better than fossil fuels (I guess they want their cars to run on hope?)

[JasonV]

I miss the Bay Area. Such a perfect mix of humanity.

The only thing Wyoming is famous for is Yellowstone National Park and "Brokeback Mountain".

[Protinus]

True enough, but I did serve my mission in the Bay Area! ;)

Loki...ever been to hell...er I mean Vallejo?


I spent all my summers growing up in Concord and Monterey but I didn't know what liberal meant. And the phase that I went through from 19 to about 26....you would have run me out of here like William F Buckley on a stick!!

[JasonV]

I spent all my summers growing up in Concord and Monterey but I didn't know what liberal meant. And the phase that I went through from 19 to about 26....you would have run me out of here like William F Buckley on a stick!!

^_^

[Loki]

I drove xcountry last summer when I moved out to the bay area; Wyoming is a beautiful state. i'd never seen terrain like it, and if it weren't so, um, far from everything, I'd consider moving there.

[JasonV]

I drove xcountry last summer when I moved out to the bay area; Wyoming is a beautiful state. i'd never seen terrain like it, and if it weren't so, um, far from everything, I'd consider moving there.

Did you catch the State sign when you got here?

"Welcome to the middle of nowhere....enjoy your stay."

(BTW. I'm the only man in Wyoming who actually saw the movie: "Brokeback Mountain".)

[Loki]

Eh, desolate wyoming can't be as bad as desolate nevada.

[Protinus]

Nope, just been to the various centralish East bay areas, and of course SF. Gotta love those sea lions.

Planning on a trip to Monterey in a month or so when DH returns from the land of Chocolate and Cheese and Watches.


I love SF...I love fisherman's wharf...Our South Street Seaport (certainely not like SF's fisherman's wharf!!) moved the Bronx last year!!

[Loki]

SF really is a nice city; the people out here are just a bit much for my midwestern pragmatism sometimes.

[Protinus]

I drove xcountry last summer when I moved out to the bay area; Wyoming is a beautiful state. i'd never seen terrain like it, and if it weren't so, um, far from everything, I'd consider moving there.


I guess this is like trading compliments but the SF coast rivals the Wyoming mountians and country side and vice versa. Just incredible places you guys live in!!

Now I miss my Kentucky!!:cry:

[Protinus]

(BTW. I'm the only man in Wyoming who actually saw the movie: "Brokeback Mountain".)

I believe it...a brilliant movie though...ang lee is amazing and the actors were tremendous plus the cinematography.

[Loki]

Movies dont' often make me cry, but Brokeback made me cry.

The blonde cowboy could actually ride a horse, too. (I had a horse for something like 6 years, and bad Hollywood riding hurts me)

[Protinus]

Movies dont' often make me cry, but Brokeback made me cry.

The blonde cowboy could actually ride a horse, too. (I had a horse for something like 6 years, and bad Hollywood riding hurts me)


I grew up on horses!! Heath Ledger had experience riding in Australia. I cried in that movie...

But I cried in My Cousin Vinny too!!! *wipes away tear*

OK!!! so I cried in Crying Game too!!

[Loki]

sap!

[Protinus]

sap!
OK!! I can defend myself!! In a defensive sort of way...

[drstevej]

You cried in My Cousin Vinny ???

I don't believe I'd have told that!
What's a "ute" ?

[Protinus]

You cried in My Cousin Vinny ???
It was a diversion as you know...did you cry in Brokeback and Crying Game??

On a Bible!!

[drstevej]

It was a diversion as you know...did you cry in Brokeback and Crying Game??

On a Bible!!

Did not see Crying Game
Will not see Brokeback Mounting

[Protinus]

Did not see Crying Game
Will not see Brokeback Mounting

Shameless puns will get you nowhere Steve:eek: ...we can change our Church and we can change society!!!

[drstevej]

Shameless puns got me a ban at IIDB
That's an accomplishment.

Changing your church while Benedict is pontiff is real optimism.
Society not only needs a change it needs some Boudreaux's paste.

[Protinus]

Boudreaux's paste.

*looks up*

we are aware of the B16 's wielding ways...but he has shown promise...though we are always wary. We are working on our local level mainly....a fulminating progression up, not down. This is not Rome's way...and we realize the challenges.

[drstevej]

Many Catholics attend our church. Half of our elders or their wives are former Catholics. They appreciate Biblical preaching and teaching.

[JasonV]

Many Catholics attend our church. Half of our elders or their wives are former Catholics. They appreciate Biblical preaching and teaching.

That's a comment that fumes me frankly Steve. I've never, ever, attended a Catholic Mass where the Bible wasn't read from, taught from, and sermonized.

I've pointed that out to an ex-Catholic turned JW friend of mine, because she's frankly brainwashed herself into believing that Catholics don't teach or read the Bible.

Give me a break.

[drstevej]

That's a comment that fumes me frankly Steve. I've never, ever, attended a Catholic Mass where the Bible wasn't read from, taught from, and sermonized.

I've pointed that out to an ex-Catholic turned JW friend of mine, because she's frankly brainwashed herself into believing that Catholics don't teach or read the Bible.

Give me a break.

Ever been to one with a 40 minute sermon based upon a biblical passage?

[Protinus]

That's a comment that fumes me frankly Steve. I've never, ever, attended a Catholic Mass where the Bible wasn't read from, taught from, and sermonized.

I've pointed that out to an ex-Catholic turned JW friend of mine, because she's frankly brainwashed herself into believing that Catholics don't teach or read the Bible.

Give me a break.


Jason: I will admit that I grew up brainwashed about Catholics...becoming a Catholic, it makes all the comments that I grew up with absurd and laughable. Steve chooses "bush league" commentary to incite and distract, knowing his comments will provoke and split, this is his cross...but he really is a nice guy....hard to tell sometimes.

[Protinus]

Ever been to one with a 40 minute sermon based upon a biblical passage?
yes...and I was very moved

[drstevej]

I am not saying Catholics do not read or teach the Bible. I am simply relating the comments of many, many friends who attend out church.

And I have not mentioned the word Catholic from the pulpit during my ministry. I teach the Scriptures.

Steve

[drstevej]

yes...and I was very moved

Our weekly sermons average 35-40 minutes and many listen to them online when they are out of town. Solid teaching week after week make an impact.

[JasonV]

Ever been to one with a 40 minute sermon based upon a biblical passage?

No. The longest Sermon in either Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox I've heard was about 20 minutes. So you've got me there.

Of course, Catholics are there for the Eucharist, which, in my opinion, is far more important than a long-winded sermon. :liturgy:

[JasonV]

Our weekly sermons average 35-40 minutes and many listen to them online when they are out of town. Solid teaching week after week make an impact.

Agreed it does. So does solid ritual. :)

[Protinus]

I want to say that our name is now "The Lord's Table - Liberal Catholics", thanks to Jason who suggested the title.

Thanks to all our supporters, including drsteve, but mainly...let's know that our faith derives from our teaching and our ongoing inquiry about it...that we are fulfilled by asking questions and that we assume a position as a change agent, in our church, our family, our society and in our world.

[JasonV]

Here here!

Now, who is gonna make the change Prot?

[Protinus]

I've got to request this from admimistration.

[kimber1]

if i could ever figure out how to get into the admin panel, i'd do it but i've yet to figure it out:P

[Rebekka]

Will this go as well?

"A forum for Catholics that disagree with the Catholic Church on key issues."
I don't like this one as I don't think I disagree on a key issue. Key issues for me are the dogmas and the creed.

[boughtwithaprice]

I want to say that our name is now "The Lord's Table - Liberal Catholics", thanks to Jason who suggested the title.

Thanks to all our supporters, including drsteve, but mainly...let's know that our faith derives from our teaching and our ongoing inquiry about it...that we are fulfilled by asking questions and that we assume a position as a change agent, in our church, our family, our society and in our world.


I was reading Charles Curran's memoires, "Loyal Dissent: Memoires of a Catholic Theologian" He described our church as a pilgrim church. He said we are One Holy Catholic Apostolic, and sinful, meaning that we should not be triumphalistic, we are constantly in need of reform and renewal. I believe that is our view here in the Lord's Table. Yes?

[Rebekka]

Hm, I can't see pages 5-7.

[Rebekka]

Oh, I can see them again.

CF bugs are so annoying. Or maybe it's just my computer.

[JasonV]

I was reading Charles Curran's memoires, "Loyal Dissent: Memoires of a Catholic Theologian" He described our church as a pilgrim church. He said we are One Holy Catholic Apostolic, and sinful, meaning that we should not be triumphalistic, we are constantly in need of reform and renewal. I believe that is our view here in the Lord's Table. Yes?

I would agree. TLT is meant to discuss these potential reforms, and perhaps even work out a theological basis for their foundation.

[kimber1]

i can't change the name but i've gotten in touch with letalis so hopefully it will change soon.

[Letalis]

Do those that voted for Nosta Aetate have any objections to changing the name to The Lord's Table?

[Protinus]

I was reading Charles Curran's memoires, "Loyal Dissent: Memoires of a Catholic Theologian" He described our church as a pilgrim church. He said we are One Holy Catholic Apostolic, and sinful, meaning that we should not be triumphalistic, we are constantly in need of reform and renewal. I believe that is our view here in the Lord's Table. Yes?

Yes!!

[JasonV]

Do those that voted for Nosta Aetate have any objections to changing the name to The Lord's Table?

Why would you ask? Seriously, we've voted and majority rules, right? :scratch:

[Letalis]

Why would you ask? Seriously, we've voted and majority rules, right? :scratch:
I'd like to hear if they voted the way they did out of personal preference or because they have some objection to The Lord's Table.

I'd like for everyone to be on board with the change.

[Protinus]

I'd like to hear if they voted the way they did out of personal preference or because they have some objection to The Lord's Table.

I'd like for everyone to be on board with the change.

If anything, this sub-forum is about inclusion of ideas and opinions...not exclusion. Am I reading something into to this that I shouldn't???:scratch:

[JasonV]

I'd like to hear if they voted the way they did out of personal preference or because they have some objection to The Lord's Table.

I'd like for everyone to be on board with the change.

So why don't you read the thread then? Anyone who had anything to say has posted their view.

This inquiry seems a bit odd.

[Letalis]

So why don't you read the thread then? Anyone who had anything to say has posted their view.

This inquiry seems a bit odd.
I want everyone to be OK with the change before I make it.

I get a lot of flack from members when I make changes not everyone agrees with.

[JasonV]

I want everyone to be OK with the change before I make it.

I get a lot of flack from members when I make changes not everyone agrees with.

What? You created this forum without the same consensus, so what's the problem?

Is Prot right? Should we be reading something into this?

[Letalis]

What? You created this forum without the same consensus, so what's the problem?

Is Prot right? Should we be reading something into this?
Can you let me hear from the others?

Thanks.

[JasonV]

Can you let me hear from the others?

Thanks.

Sure. Here they are:

"Nosta Aetate" ~ In Our Time.

I voted for this one.

I voted for the second option, but I think both are great suggestions, so I don't mind either way :)

I think there are good cases to be made for both choices and I'll be happy with whatever the find results are. For those interested, though, this is why I voted for option #2:

1. I think Latin is cool. :)
2. I like the tension between using an ancient language and the meaning of the words "In our Time". Simultaneously, it gives one a sense of both timelessness and also of being rooted in the present, which, when one thinks about it, is a good metaphor for what the Church has always attempted to do.

Two of the votes said they don't care either way. So why don't you PM CaDan and in2Nas and find out if it upsets them.

[Letalis]

I've sent them a PM. Hopefully we'll hear back from them shortly.

[Protinus]

Sure. Here they are:









Two of the votes said they don't care either way. So why don't you PM CaDan and in2Nas and find out if it upsets them.

the comical thing is that I even revised the poll to allow for last minute suggestions!!! I even pm'd CaDan to say that I moved his vote from "other" to his newly suggested poll option. I included the option to express other ideas!!:doh:

[JasonV]

I have to wonder if we had a non-OBOB admin here, if he'd be giving us the same song and dance. :sigh:

[Pogue]

Do those that voted for Nosta Aetate have any objections to changing the name to The Lord's Table?

I've got no objections. :)

[Letalis]

I have to wonder if we had a non-OBOB admin here, if he'd be giving us the same song and dance. :sigh:
There's no rush.

Let everyone have their final say and then we can go forward. Better to deal with it now than later.

FWIW, I'm not an OBOB admin. And again, FWIW, I like the name The Lord's Table.

[JasonV]

There's no rush.

Let everyone have their final say and then we can go forward. Better to deal with it now than later.

FWIW, I'm not an OBOB admin. And again, FWIW, I like the name The Lord's Table.

Well that's real nice. I suppose I'm still a little bitter about the way you railroaded us into a "sub-forum" here.

I don't suppose it's too early to appeal for our own full forum?

[Letalis]

Well that's real nice. I suppose I'm still a little bitter about the way you railroaded us into a "sub-forum" here.

I don't suppose it's too early to appeal for our own full forum?
I don't see why you couldn't.

This has become a vibrant community.

That said, I'm trying to get consensus before I create or rearrange forums. It's not me you're going to have to convince.

[JasonV]

If you think about it, we have more activity than the Oriental orthodox forum, the House Church forum, the Looking for a Church forum, and the Anabaptists forum.

We're about equal in activity to the Anglican forum and the Apostolic Churches forums. (And probably some of the others as well.)

Is that not good enough to justify a forum of our own? Who do we have to convince?

[Letalis]

If you think about it, we have more activity than the Oriental orthodox forum, the House Church forum, the Looking for a Church forum, and the Anabaptists forum.

We're about equal in activity to the Anglican forum and the Apostolic Churches forums. (And probably some of the others as well.)

Is that not good enough to justify a forum of our own? Who do we have to convince?
I noticed. I'm surprised it has gotten this active this fast.

As for who you'd have to convince, you'd have to work it out with other members who may object to you becoming a congregation forum.

You could make a proposal in Suggest new Forums, or in a Wiki article.

[Protinus]

As for who you'd have to convince, you'd have to work it out with other members who may object to you becoming a congregation forum..

We've been there...as I recall, it was met with mocking derision and vapid plea to accept congregational rules without input for change (of course)...even in the face of wavering contrition and conciliatory discussion.

[JasonV]

Translation: You have to get approval from OBOB. :(

[Rebekka]

I'm not too happy with this subtitle, and I'd like to know if I'm alone in that (if so, no problem, keep it as it is):
"A forum for Catholics that disagree with the Catholic Church on key issues".
I don't disagree on a key issue, I think. Worded like this, I don't know if I belong here.

Is there a possibility to have it altered? Or are we as a whole for keeping it?

[Protinus]

I totally agree RebeccaH:

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=37078268&postcount=135

It should changed post haste and a new sub-titles agreed upon. No one asked us if the sub-title was appropriate in the beginning and it was simply grafted on by Letalis.

[Pogue]

I'd like the subtitle changed, too. Can't think of any alternative suggestions at the moment, but will let you know if anything comes to mind.

[JasonV]

Subtitle suggestion:

The Lord's Table - Liberal Catholics
A Forum for Progressive and Independent Catholics

??

[Rebekka]

Why not simply 'a forum for liberal catholics'?

[kimber1]

okay whose answer are we waiting on? this seems a bit............odd what with a poll and all............

[boughtwithaprice]

Subtitle suggestion:

The Lord's Table - Liberal Catholics
A Forum for Progressive and Independent Catholics

??

That is an excellent subtitle, Jason:)


Much better than the one that we were slapped with at the beginning

[Letalis]

I didn't hear back from In2nas.

There is a consensus even if he were to object.

[Letalis]

Name changed/description removed.

Let me know when you reach a consensus on the latter.

[Loki]

Isn't 11:4 a consensus even if those 4 object?

[Letalis]

Isn't 11:4 a consensus even if those 4 object?
Maybe.

With a community that isn't as active as, say, the Charismatic forum, 4 members is a pretty good portion of the participants here.

[drstevej]

nm

[Michie]

I'm too late to vote but I personally don't like the name.

The Lord's Table- Liberal Catholics.

For many reasons.

But since I'm not really liberal (labels, labels, labels) I guess that is to be expected.

I'd prefer something like- The Other Catholic forum. A place to discuss issues not normally questioned or discussed.

Do we have to put a freakin label on everything?

[drstevej]

It could be One Bond One Brotherhood Too

Or OBOB too

for short

[Michie]

It could be One Bond One Brotherhood Too

Or OBOB too

for short
Hey Steve! :)

Missed you.

I like your suggestion too.

[drstevej]

Hi Michie. Fancy seeing you here.
Blessings my friend.

[Loki]

Maybe.

With a community that isn't as active as, say, the Charismatic forum, 4 members is a pretty good portion of the participants here.

It's a poll. Not every person who posts here was required to vote. I didn't realize that decisions had to be unanimous before they were enacted here. And it's just a name, and two of the four dissenters had already expressed ambivalence toward the other option.

Is there some hidden policy here about how things really work, or some place where it's clarified how to determine which polls are official, which polls must be unanimous?

Sheesh, so easy to get a pejorative subtitle, so difficult to change the real title that was voted for nearly 3:1.

[Michie]

Hi Michie. Fancy seeing you here.
Blessings my friend.
Thank you Steve.
And also to you. :)

I was invited. Don't know how long it will last! ^_^

[Letalis]

I didn't realize that decisions had to be unanimous before they were enacted here.
It would certainly make my job a lot easier.

Good luck with the forum.

[Loki]

It would certainly make my job a lot easier.

Good luck with the forum.

Must the polls be unanimous at all of CF, or just this subforum?

[JasonV]

It would certainly make my job a lot easier.

Good luck with the forum.

Even better, show Kimber1 how to do what you did, and then we don't have to wait for you to feel better about it.

[Rebekka]

Name changed/description removed.

Let me know when you reach a consensus on the latter.
Thank you Letalis! :thumbsup:


I quite like Michie's suggestion:

I'd prefer something like- The Other Catholic forum. A place to discuss issues not normally questioned or discussed.

Do we have to put a freakin label on everything?

[Cosmic Charlie]

I don't like either one.

[Protinus]

I don't like either one.

why Charlie?

[Michie]

I quite like Michie's suggestion:
Thanks Rebekka. :) No labels so nobody feels excluded. OBOB can come over & feel ok about it & discuss what they can't in OBOB. The description is simple & direct in its intention.

The forum says Whoever Will May Come yet theres that big fat liberal label on it.

I say we lose the confusion in the Other Catholic Forum.

[JasonV]

I'm a label kinda guy. Without labels, how would you know whether you're buying a can of chili or a can of green peas?

I'm sorry, I know that's a bit facetious. But labels are very useful, as are stereotypes, and the folks who claim to dislike both aren't very realistic IMO.

[Rebekka]

Thanks Rebekka. :) No labels so nobody feels excluded. OBOB can come over & feel ok about it & discuss what they can't in OBOB. The description is simple & direct in its intention.

The forum says Whoever Will May Come yet theres that big fat liberal label on it.

I say we lose the confusion in the Other Catholic Forum.
I agree. I value the whosoever will may come mentality, and also I don't feel separated from my brothers and sisters in OBOB - I'd love to see more friends from OBOB here.

But I know I'm not the most liberal person here. :sorry:

[Michie]

I agree. I value the whosoever will may come mentality, and also I don't feel separated from my brothers and sisters in OBOB - I'd love to see more friends from OBOB here.

But I know I'm not the most liberal person here. :sorry:
I know I'm not. If I must use a label I consider myself mostly moderate on some things. But I'm definitely not liberal. My motto is let common sense rule in these matters. :D

[Michie]

I'm a label kinda guy. Without labels, how would you know whether you're buying a can of chili or a can of green peas?

I'm sorry, I know that's a bit facetious. But labels are very useful, as are stereotypes, and the folks who claim to dislike both aren't very realistic IMO.
Oh ok.

So I'm unrealistic. *shrug*

I agree that labels are needed but where I protest is that they do not define or motivate me. I take each situation as it comes & that label is not going to be the deciding factor in individual decisions. I also don't like them to segregate people as defined by their label.

I really don't understand the name of Whoever Will May Come & then slapping Liberal on it. Which is it?

[Protinus]

I know I'm not. If I must use a label I consider myself mostly moderate on some things. But I'm definitely not liberal. My motto is let common sense rule in these matters. :D


Michie- we are liberal "as compared to". This is a cache of moderates. But I will challenge you that compared to OBOB- we might as well be as well be fringe at best. What does that say? In the end, labels do matter.

It is the dialogue that matters and sharing concerns and issues that real Cathloics encounter in their faith daily. That is why "WE ARE" and not "IN ADDITION TO".

Unfortunate? If you concentrate on labels, maybe. But I have heard so many heart warming remarks and searching testimony that I know this place is REAL now.

If you want to go through the sordid responses that I received in the new forum request, then by all means...it is very educational.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5714756-liberal-catholic-forum.html

Oh! an I see there are a lot of edits...I wonder why?

[Loki]

Reading some of the responses in that thread make me sick to my stomach.

[Michie]

No I don't want to go through sordid responses.

Reread my post. I understand labels being necessary to a point. But a lot of folks will see Liberal & not bother.

I don't like being defined by a label. I like to feel like I can communicate with everyone.

Why does it have to be called liberal catholics then? If it is a cache of moderates? Shouldn't that be clarified? If only to make it feel like all are welcome? Just another Catholic forum to discuss things without feeling out of place.

Bottomline, just my opinion. But those are my feelings on it.

[Pogue]

The thread does bring back some bad memories :(

[Loki]

Why does it have to be called liberal catholics then? If it is a cache of moderates? Shouldn't that be clarified? If only to make it feel like all are welcome? Just another Catholic forum to discuss things without feeling out of place.


As Prot said, it's liberal compared to...

[Protinus]

Why does it have to be called liberal catholics then? If it is a cache of moderates? Shouldn't that be clarified? If only to make it feel like all are welcome? Just another Catholic forum to discuss things without feeling out of place.

Bottomline, just my opinion. But those are my feelings on it.

you know...the title of the forum is not going to mean a thing in the end. We are not opening a storefront to attract customers. We are building a fellowship that does not make presumptions. I might add that we represent the Liberal Catholic Church as well...we await Jason's contributions.

What I am saying is that folks here will zoom past any title and focus on the fellowship and exchanges, insights, thoughts that we have.

We have been through "progressive" and others labels as you would have it. Sometimes you have to "get on with it".

disclaimer- Michie is a dear friend and I value her opinion, I talk to her in a pitched fashion sometimes and I welcome her opinion!!!

[Protinus]

The thread does bring back some bad memories :(

I remember you in the thick of it. I remembered..."I don't even know this poster- what must she think?" I didn't even care if you were for or against.

I'm glad to know you now...I'm still licking wounds and I know that I was in it like a junkyard dog. But I'm glad you're here...that you weren't offended and that you saw a possibility for simply another way, albeit distinctly, to discuss catholicism without repercussions.

[Michie]

you know...the title of the forum is not going to mean a thing in the end. We are not opening a storefront to attract customers. We are building a fellowship that does not make presumptions. I might add that we represent the Liberal Catholic Church as well...we await Jason's contributions.

What I am saying is that folks here will zoom past any title and focus on the fellowship and exchanges, insights, thoughts that we have.

We have been through "progressive" and others labels as you would have it. Sometimes you have to "get on with it".

disclaimer- Michie is a dear friend and I value her opinion, I talk to her in a pitched fashion sometimes and I welcome her opinion!!!
And I talk to you in a pitched fashion at times but you know I respect you deeply. I feel comfortable disagreeing in a genuine friendship because I know it's not going to turn into a grudge match. :)

Well, as I said, just my opinion. That is how the liberal Catholic title makes me feel personally. But I've been attacked in WWMC forum before so I may be feeling a bit bitten by the term 'liberal.'

I just wish it was not there. Because you do have those that feel the need to ask why you are in a forum based on it's title. You know what I mean JP. You've been there too.

I feel so strongly about it because I do feel like I'm in limbo in these defined forums. (Excuse the limbo term! ;) ) But as one that does not fit in OBOB yet does not fit the liberal definition it makes one feel left by the wayside.

In the end it's really of no consequence I suppose but since the thread was here I thought I'd give my opinion on it.

[Pogue]

I remember you in the thick of it. I remembered..."I don't even know this poster- what must she think?" I didn't even care if you were for or against.

I'm glad to know you now...I'm still licking wounds and I know that I was in it like a junkyard dog. But I'm glad you're here...that you weren't offended and that you saw a possibility for simply another way, albeit distinctly, to discuss catholicism without repercussions.

Aww! :hug: :hug: :hug:
Yeah, it was pretty unpleasant at the time, but I'm glad things seem to have calmed down a bit now. I feel very at home here *big grin*

[Protinus]

Aww! :hug: :hug: :hug:
Yeah, it was pretty unpleasant at the time, but I'm glad things seem to have calmed down a bit now. I feel very at home here *big grin*


you never answered me about my personal subtitle!!

[Pogue]

I did! I said I knew, but only because I googled it. I was going to pretend that I knew it without the benefit of google, but honesty's the best policy!

[JasonV]

So I'm unrealistic. *shrug*

That wasn't meant to be taken personally Michie. I used to be of the view that labels=bad. I don't like to be labeled either, but such is life, and labels are generally useful, if not always accurate on an individual basis.

I might add that we represent the Liberal Catholic Church as well...we await Jason's contributions.

Another shameless request by JP? I shall attempt something for posting this weekend.

[Michie]

No problem Jason.

[Protinus]

I feel so strongly about it because I do feel like I'm in limbo in these defined forums. (Excuse the limbo term! ;) ) But as one that does not fit in OBOB yet does not fit the liberal definition it makes one feel left by the wayside.

In the end it's really of no consequence I suppose but since the thread was here I thought I'd give my opinion on it.


Of course it is of consequence....I was too destracted to invite you previously...you're debate is necessary...it is my fault for not including you. Things happened so quickly. Jason was incredible in the beginning with the whole conception and continues to be. I was trying not to ostracize but hold many tenets true that I conveyed.

All of this to get people together and commune.

I'm still forgetting folks...but the bright new faces that I know now are so revealing: Loki, Jason, RebeccaH, Red Tulip, Fantine, FnB, Longhair, Pogue and others...and even the old school apologists coming here Quanta Cura and Ireneas...I am so invigorated about new beginnings!!

[Rebekka]

I agree with Michie about labelling. It's not something against the label of 'liberal' alone - I know that according to many, that is exactly what I am - but I see people as individuals, I don't want to put people in boxes.

The "us" vs. "them" mentality is all over CF. But things aren't that black and white. Compared to fundamentalist protestants, the catholic church is liberal. Compared to atheists, liberal christians are conservative in their beliefs. I don't like "men" vs. "women" thinking (people are individuals first, and man or woman second), I try to use as few stereotypes as possible.

I've said this a couple of times in Whosoever Will May Come, but I think that for many non-Americans, the conservative/liberal division is artificial. We don't think in either/or over here because there is so much in between. In the Netherlands, I am pretty conservative - and politically a leftist at the same time. That is possible.

I'm not trying to change the title, just giving my opinion; I feel moderate and yet I post here because I sympathize with liberals and share some liberal beliefs.

I understand why you need a safe haven Protinus, because some posts in OBOB are extremely anti-liberal (mentioning the word is speaking of the devil) and I never understood where it was coming from, I still don't understand. It's a dirty word for some reason - even in the political sense. Just rambling here, sorry. I think that attempts to make this subforum welcoming for everyone will help with making CF less "us" vs. "them". Yet there is a problem with trolling if you take the word "liberal" out. Hm. Sorry for my unhelpful post. :sorry:

[JasonV]

It's not unhelpful Rebekka. This forum shouldn't need any labels at all, but the very nature of CF (which I believe Erwin is trying to change) is based on a system of labels. It's the "us" vs "them" all over the place, and the minorities are left out until now. TLT is an even better place for me than my old home at STR because I can talk more openly about what I believe here than even there! My beliefs are more safely discussed here than over there. Defining and labeling this place as a safe-haven from the majority gives us the ability to welcome all, even if in labeling we alienate a few. That's the only unfortunate part about the label, as I see it.