Matthew:5 31-32?

[Lupinus]

ESV-

31(A) "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Picked up on this today while reading and wanted some opinions on this passage.

Is this to say that anyone marrying a divorced woman will live in a constant state of sin (adultery) with her? If so how would this be open to forgiveness? Seems it would be sort of a hard sin to repent as short of a divorce one would continue practicing that same sin knowingly.

Thoughts? Comments?

[PreachersWife2004]

I'll come at this from my limited laypersons experience.

I am divorced.

My ex was not unfaithful sexually. He didn't have affairs with other women (or men, either). He did, however, have an "affair" with another church, he did abuse me and there was abandonment.

Now, based on JUST the scripture that you posted, it would seem that my pastor husband has been living in sin for the last three years.

I, too, was confused by this passage, and it made me stall in filing for divorce because I thought surely I would be committing a huge sin.

I went to my pastors for counseling, and their reasoning was thus: My ex adulterated the marriage bed through other ways than sexual immorality. No spouse should stay married to someone who abuses them.

Well, okay, so then when I started dating my current husband, I was worried again, because of this passage. My pastors (and this was a different set of pastors) referred me to what is often known as the "marriage verses"...these are the verses (and frogive me, I'm on the road and do not have my bible with me) that are often used in weddings that speak to how a husband should be and how a wife should be.

The bottom line was that I had committed no sin (in terms of the ending of the marriage). Therefore Matt wasn't sinning by marrying me. Whew!

Well, I'm sure DaRev or someone can explain it scripturally better than I can. I might've just confused the issue...and some may not even agree that I should've ever remarried.

[Lupinus]

perhaps someone else can point those verses out to me if not if you get the chance before someone else I'd love to read them :thumbsup:

But let me see if I can summerize that I am getting it right lol (been a long day).

In short even though there was no sexual defying of the marriage there were abuses, mistreatments, what have you. As well as him not keeping up his end of the bargin in how the bible says a man should treat his wife and the divorce was therefor acceptable and no sin commited upon remarrying? Like I say just trying to summerize as I read that to make sure I understand your meaning right.

[Radiata]

Let's see what my cheater bible says about this. Divorce is as hurtful and destructive today as in Jesus' day. God intends marriage to be a lifetime commitment (Gen 2:24). When entering into marriage, people should never consider divorce an option for solving problems or a way out of a relationship that seems dead. In these verses, Jesus is also attacking those who purposefully abuse the marriage contract, using divorce to satisfy thir lustful desire to marry someone else.

Jesus said that divorce is not permissible except for unfaithfulness. This does not mean that divorce should automatically occur when a spouse commits adultery. The word translated "unfaithfulness" implies a sexually immoral lifestyle, not a confessed and repented act of adultery. Those who discover that their partner has been unfaithful should first make every effort to forgive, reconcile, and restore their relationship. We are always to look for reasons to restore the marriage relationship rather than for excuses to leave it.


Nope. Never says anything for your question. I guess I will just have to pull my weight and address the question myself. I think that marrying a divorced person would only be a sin IF they did so to get away from the other person. That was confusing. Let me rephrase that. Man A is married to Woman A. Woman A then sins with Man B. Woman A then divorces Man A so she can be with Man B. In this case, Woman A is sinning. But if then sometime later, a certain Woman B comes into the life of Man A, and they get married, I do not think that they are committing sin.

I hate my bad advice.

[DaSeminarian]

ESV-


Picked up on this today while reading and wanted some opinions on this passage.

Is this to say that anyone marrying a divorced woman will live in a constant state of sin (adultery) with her? If so how would this be open to forgiveness? Seems it would be sort of a hard sin to repent as short of a divorce one would continue practicing that same sin knowingly.

Thoughts? Comments?


I look at this verse in the context it was written and to whom Jesus was speaking. He was speaking to the Pharisees on these issues of the Torah. He knew they had abused the heart of the law, even though they seemingly had kept the letter of the law. But they had drawn a fence around this law which gave them carte blanche freedom to divorce their wives for just about any reason. Jesus was telling them that the real reason they were divorcing was because they had concubines on the side that they wanted to be married to rather than their wives. So he told them that unless they were divorcing their wives for the reasons of marital infidelity on the wives part (the husbands would be the victims) then they had no grounds for divorcing.

I wonder what he would have said to the wives of these men? Suppose he would have given quite a few of the wives the permission they needed to rid themselves of an adulterer.

So the context in which these words were spoken were designed to show the true hearts of the Pharisees, not so much to burden us with a new law. Though I will say that the law imposed by Christ should make us consider the circumstances in our own relationships before moving in this direction.

I also would agree with Becky about her ex's abuse and abandonment. It doesn't have to be a purely sexual issue or cut and dried abandonment. There are ways to abandon someone and yet still be living in the same house.

[JimfromOhio]

In the concept of God's forgiveness, this also contradicts. God loves us very much and has forgiven our sin (i.e. adultery & divorce) when we confessed it from our heart. He not only forgives our sins but rebuilds our lives from where we are. Love hopes all things (1 Corinth 13). Love refuses to take human failure as final. With Christ in me, my human failures are never final. Love never keeps a record of wrongs. Love forgives and love is unable to think about them anymore. Forget the past and move on. Focus on the future as I focus on Christ at the same time. Romans 4:8 (also Psalms 32:2) "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him". That if a local church forgive those who sinned (divorce), our heavenly Father will forgive us. But if we refuse to forgive others, our Father will not forgive our sins.

[PreachersWife2004]

I do have a friend who cheated on his wife. They tried counseling and through all that, she realized that she just could not get past his cheating. They divorced, amicably, and he takes very good care of her. She is remarried, he is not. He has said he will not remarry, because he was the unfaithful one in the marriage and he doesn't think it would be right to remarry. And he doesn't hold any bitterness towards his ex that she couldn't trust him any more.

She did forgive him. But sometimes forgiving and forgetting is impossible with our sinful human natures.

[Zecryphon]

Let's see what my cheater bible says about this. Divorce is as hurtful and destructive today as in Jesus' day. God intends marriage to be a lifetime commitment (Gen 2:24). When entering into marriage, people should never consider divorce an option for solving problems or a way out of a relationship that seems dead. In these verses, Jesus is also attacking those who purposefully abuse the marriage contract, using divorce to satisfy thir lustful desire to marry someone else.

Jesus said that divorce is not permissible except for unfaithfulness. This does not mean that divorce should automatically occur when a spouse commits adultery. The word translated "unfaithfulness" implies a sexually immoral lifestyle, not a confessed and repented act of adultery. Those who discover that their partner has been unfaithful should first make every effort to forgive, reconcile, and restore their relationship. We are always to look for reasons to restore the marriage relationship rather than for excuses to leave it.


Nope. Never says anything for your question. I guess I will just have to pull my weight and address the question myself. I think that marrying a divorced person would only be a sin IF they did so to get away from the other person. That was confusing. Let me rephrase that. Man A is married to Woman A. Woman A then sins with Man B. Woman A then divorces Man A so she can be with Man B. In this case, Woman A is sinning. But if then sometime later, a certain Woman B comes into the life of Man A, and they get married, I do not think that they are committing sin.

I hate my bad advice.
What's a cheater Bible and where can I get one?

[Edial]

ESV-
Picked up on this today while reading and wanted some opinions on this passage.

Is this to say that anyone marrying a divorced woman will live in a constant state of sin (adultery) with her? If so how would this be open to forgiveness? Seems it would be sort of a hard sin to repent as short of a divorce one would continue practicing that same sin knowingly.

Thoughts? Comments?
My thoughts on this.

MT 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Greek word for "marital unfaithfulness" is porneia, like pornography.
It is like fooling aroung with someone in a "pornographic" way. Then divorce is OK.

Now, in that text there are two types of divorced women.

One is when her husband abandons her.

Another is when she commits marital unfaithfulness and should be lawfully divorced.

Follow me now.
If the wife is divorced due to abandonment, she is called an adulteress.
HOWEVER, it is NOT her fault for becoming one, because it was her husband that CAUSED her to become an adulteress by divorcing her unjustly.

She is an adulteress, but not due to her doing. Not her fault.

It is like a little child that was CAUSED to sin.

Now comes the complicated part.
... and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. ...

Which "divorced woman" is this text addressing?

The one that was abandoned unjustly OR the one that was divorced justly due to fooling around?

The one that was divorced justly for fooling around.
Any man that marries HER commits an adultery.

But how do we know that the text does not address the other woman who was abandoned?

Because, the Bible advises them to remarry if they are "burning with passion" by being alone.

1CO 7:8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

And the guys that marry abandoned women do not commit adultery, they commit it if they marry the ones that were divorced because of the marital unfaithfulness.

There are also other verses that would cover every possible variant or marriage and remarriage.

Thanks, :)
Ed

[DaSeminarian]

My thoughts on this.

MT 5:32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Greek word for "marital unfaithfulness" is porneia, like pornography.
It is like fooling aroung with someone in a "pornographic" way. Then divorce is OK.

Now, in that text there are two types of divorced women.

One is when her husband abandons her.

Another is when she commits marital unfaithfulness and should be lawfully divorced.

Follow me now.
If the wife is divorced due to abandonment, she is called an adulteress.
HOWEVER, it is NOT her fault for becoming one, because it was her husband that CAUSED her to become an adulteress by divorcing her unjustly.

She is an adulteress, but not due to her doing. Not her fault.

It is like a little child that was CAUSED to sin.

Now comes the complicated part.
... and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. ...

Which "divorced woman" is this text addressing?

The one that was abandoned unjustly OR the one that was divorced justly due to fooling around?

The one that was divorced justly for fooling around.
Any man that marries HER commits an adultery.

But how do we know that the text does not address the other woman who was abandoned?

Because, the Bible advises them to remarry if they are "burning with passion" by being alone.

1CO 7:8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

And the guys that marry abandoned women do not commit adultery, they commit it if they marry the ones that were divorced because of the marital unfaithfulness.

There are also other verses that would cover every possible variant or marriage and remarriage.

Thanks, :)
Ed


Very good Ed.

[Radiata]

What's a cheater Bible and where can I get one?
A cheater bible is a study bible. There are notes that go along with scripture. In the old testament, there is perhaps an inch of notes at the bottom of each page, but in the new testament, there are pages with maybe 2 verses and the rest of the page is taken up by notes. I don't know where you can get one. My dad has one and he got me one for Christmas last year. You can probably get it at any Christian bookstore though.

[DaRev]

A cheater bible is a study bible. There are notes that go along with scripture. In the old testament, there is perhaps an inch of notes at the bottom of each page, but in the new testament, there are pages with maybe 2 verses and the rest of the page is taken up by notes. I don't know where you can get one. My dad has one and he got me one for Christmas last year. You can probably get it at any Christian bookstore though.

Which study Bible do you have? There are several different ones available.

I have two. One is the Concordia Self-study Bible by CPH. It is basically Zondervan's NIV Study Bible but the notes have been "Lutheranized" to relfect orthodox theology. The other one I have is the Life Application Study Bible (NIV). I use this on occasion for sermon prep as it helps me to see how others view a particular passage. The notes, however, have a slight Reformed bend to them. You would need to be able to distinguish the false teachings contained therein in order to be able to use if effectively.

CPH has been contemplating a study Bible for the ESV text, but I don't know what the status of that is.

[Radiata]

The other one I have is the Life Application Study Bible (NIV).
That would be the one. I use it all the time. I actually read out of that one rather than an ordinary NIV or NKJV, just so I have the explainations on hand. But you mentioned false teachings. Could you elaborate on that a little?

[DaSeminarian]

CPH has been contemplating a study Bible for the ESV text, but I don't know what the status of that is.


Last I heard from the CPH bookstore on campus it is due sometime late 2008 or 2009.

[DaRev]

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That would be the one. I use it all the time. I actually read out of that one rather than an ordinary NIV or NKJV, just so I have the explainations on hand. But you mentioned false teachings. Could you elaborate on that a little?

I don't have an example off the top of my head, nor do I have the time to look any up, but the notes in the LAB do tend to favor a Reformed view of some things. You just need to be able to recognize such.

[Zecryphon]

A cheater bible is a study bible. There are notes that go along with scripture. In the old testament, there is perhaps an inch of notes at the bottom of each page, but in the new testament, there are pages with maybe 2 verses and the rest of the page is taken up by notes. I don't know where you can get one. My dad has one and he got me one for Christmas last year. You can probably get it at any Christian bookstore though.
Oh I've got a ton of those! LOL I've just never heard it called that before. See Jim, what I say is true about this place. I always come here to read and end up learning! LOL

[filosofer]

[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]
That would be the one. I use it all the time. I actually read out of that one rather than an ordinary NIV or NKJV, just so I have the explainations on hand. But you mentioned false teachings. Could you elaborate on that a little?

Look at any passage that mentions Baptism (i.e. 1 Peter 3:21), Lord's Supper (i.e. 1 Cor. 11:23-27), or End Times (i.e. 1 Thes. 4:13-18).

In Christ's love,
filo

[rrguy]

IMO that is a tough situation & do not mean to confuse it with others I have seen. I do not know all the details & aside from that. To what that passage reads, there may be desire to make or add exceptions? Second If you say to God words that are similar to "for better or worse till death do us part", then that just reinforces what the Bible says. People may fall but thats when they need help. Of course not many would encourage staying in a abusive situation, but there are alternatives to divorcing. Although where I sit that may be easy to say. Never would I wish to be in such a situation, I seem to be just as weak as any when struggling to do God's will vs my own. With society no longer supporting what some may call family values. It seems more & more reasons for divorce are being accepted & marriage devalued. Which I am really starting to believe broken families is what the devil desires. Sorry if I went off course.

[Edial]

IMO that is a tough situation & do not mean to confuse it with others I have seen. I do not know all the details & aside from that. To what that passage reads, there may be desire to make or add exceptions? Second If you say to God words that are similar to "for better or worse till death do us part", then that just reinforces what the Bible says. People may fall but thats when they need help. Of course not many would encourage staying in a abusive situation, but there are alternatives to divorcing. Although where I sit that may be easy to say. Never would I wish to be in such a situation, I seem to be just as weak as any when struggling to do God's will vs my own. With society no longer supporting what some may call family values. It seems more & more reasons for divorce are being accepted & marriage devalued. Which I am really starting to believe broken families is what the devil desires. Sorry if I went off course.
But the devil does desire broken families.

Broken families feed instability, selfishness, sexual immorality, lusting for each other, loose morals ... and in the end - the cheap grace.

Thanks, :)
Ed

[Edial]

Very good Ed.
Thanks Scott.

I find this topic one of the most complex and relevant to the church life.

[PreachersWife2004]

Like I said, it was hard trying to sort out if getting remarried was going to be committing a sin.

After much prayerful consideration and many counseling sessions, it just felt as though God was saying to marry my husband. I know we can easily say that as an excuse for behavior and actions, so I do say it with caution.

I guess part of the way I've looked at it is that I have been very blessed since marrying my husband. We have three beautiful children with another on that way, and while finances aren't all that great, our faith is strong and our family is strong.

I also mentioned the other bible verses. They really speak to how a husband should treat his wife and vice versa. My husband is ten thousand times the man my ex ever could be.