unrepentant sin

[eoe]

What does your tradition teach about unrepentant sin? If someone clings to a particular sin, excusing it or rationalizing it in some way, does that make it ok? Let's say someone really likes porn and just will not accept that there is anything wrong with it or they like to smoke marijuana and defend the act by saying it is natural. Whatever it might be - something is clearly a sin according to the Church yet they refuse to accept that and repent - what would you say to that?

[WarriorAngel]

IMHO, porn is a matter of grave offense.

Upon Christ's own words that if your eye gives you trouble, cut it out.
Rather to live [Heaven] without an eye, than to burn for all eternity with the eye.

So, if we cling to sin, and clearly we always have the choice to avoid that sin, then we are reveling in that sin rather than seeking God to help us remove the temptation.
[The Our Father prayer]

So...the judgement is between the person and God.

Smoking marijuana I am not certain about. [AS to which catagory of sin that may be under]

But with venial sins, the sinful nature is purged from our bodies through the process of cleansing. To which we go through a system of 'going to the cleaners' before entering Heaven.

[a_ntv]

What does your tradition teach about unrepentant sin? If someone clings to a particular sin, excusing it or rationalizing it in some way, does that make it ok? Let's say someone really likes porn and just will not accept that there is anything wrong with it or they like to smoke marijuana and defend the act by saying it is natural. Whatever it might be - something is clearly a sin according to the Church yet they refuse to accept that and repent - what would you say to that?

the Catholic doctrine I'm explain here can be quite a surprise for you.

The final judge of your sins is only the your conscience.
So, at the limit cases, if you actualy consider that the use of porn is not a sin, you are not committing such a sin when watching porn.

But...
The point is that it is a heavy duty of you to agree with the moral teached by the Church.
The Church is very clear....the porn is a heavy sin, because with the heart interested in the porn it is impossible to go on in the path of salvation.
If your conscience dont consider the porn as a sin, your conscience is like to be drunk, and this is the very heavy sin. Not the act of porn by itsself, but to keep a intoxicated conscience.

In the worse case this intoxication of the own conscience became a deep permanent status...it is what we call "Obstinacy in sin", that is one of the Sins against the Holy Sprit.

[Simon_Templar]

I have known quite a few people who had a slightly different problem, the idea sometimes referred to as "besseting sins" in protestant circles.

In this case, a person knows and agrees that something is a sin, but still can't stop themselves from doing it.

Like a drug addiction, or a porn addiction etc. They agree that it is sin, but they can't seem to ever get free from it.

How do the respective churches view that?

[kamikat]

Before I left the RC church, a RC priest told me that if one suffers from addiction, the addiction isn't a sin, but failure to get treatment would be a sin. If the addict is getting treatment and trying to break the addiction, then when the addict fails, it's not really a sin unless he gets right back to his program.
When I was first inqiring into Orthodoxy, I asked my priest about this. He said addiction is a sinful behavior and that we all struggle with sinful behaviors. Each time an addict choses to indulge in his addiction, he is choosing to sin and should repent each time. This is different from someone who doesn't see his behavior as a sin. The addict usually understands that his behavior is a sin.

[zhilan]

the Catholic doctrine I'm explain here can be quite a surprise for you.

The final judge of your sins is only the your conscience.
So, at the limit cases, if you actualy consider that the use of porn is not a sin, you are not committing such a sin when watching porn.

But...
The point is that it is a heavy duty of you to agree with the moral teached by the Church.
The Church is very clear....the porn is a heavy sin, because with the heart interested in the porn it is impossible to go on in the path of salvation.
If your conscience dont consider the porn as a sin, your conscience is like to be drunk, and this is the very heavy sin. Not the act of porn by itsself, but to keep a intoxicated conscience.

In the worse case this intoxication of the own conscience became a deep permanent status...it is what we call "Obstinacy in sin", that is one of the Sins against the Holy Sprit.
I may be wrong, but I don't think this is a teaching of the Church. I'm pretty sure that even if you don't think it's a sin, it's still a sin.

[a_ntv]

I may be wrong, but I don't think this is a teaching of the Church. I'm pretty sure that even if you don't think it's a sin, it's still a sin.If you actualy interested in this subject, I can spend 20 minutes to find the relevant articles in the Cathechism

[WarriorAngel]

HOLY BIBLE: Psalm 108 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/psa108.htm)

... his just punishment for his obstinacy in sin and final impenitence. ... When he is judged, may he go out condemned; and may his prayer be turned to sin. ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/psa108.htm
HOLY BIBLE: Jeremiah 13 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jer013.htm)

Their obstinacy in sin brings all miseries upon them. 13:1. Thus saith the Lord to me: Go, and get thee a linen girdle, and thou shalt put it about thy ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/jer013.htm
HOLY BIBLE: Jeremiah (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jer000.htm)

Their obstinacy in sin brings all miseries upon them. Jeremias Chapter 14. ... For their obstinacy in sin the Jews shall be led captive. ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/jer000.htm
HOLY BIBLE: Book of Psalms (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/psa000.htm)

The folly of worldlings, who live on in sin, without thinking of death or hell. .... his just punishment for his obstinacy in sin and final impenitence. ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/psa000.htm
HOLY BIBLE: Jeremiah 17 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jer017.htm)

For their obstinacy in sin the Jews shall be led captive. He is cursed that trusteth in flesh. God alone searcheth the heart, giving to every one as he ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/jer017.htm
HOLY BIBLE: Amos 1 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/amo001.htm)

The prophet threatens Damascus, Gaza, Tyre, Edom, and Ammon with the judgments of God, for their obstinacy in sin. 1:1. The words of Amos, who was among the ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/amo001.htm
HOLY BIBLE: Amos (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/amo000.htm)

The prophet threatens Damascus, Gaza, Tyre, Edom, and Ammon with the judgments of God, for their obstinacy in sin. Amos Chapter 2. The judgments with which ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/amo000.htm
SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (Secunda ... (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3014.htm)

It would seem unfitting to distinguish six kinds of sin against the Holy Ghost, viz. despair, presumption, impenitence, obstinacy, resisting the known truth ...
www.newadvent.org/summa/3014.htm
HOLY BIBLE: Romans 9 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/rom009.htm)

Not that God made him on purpose that he should sin, and so be damned; but foreseeing his obstinacy in sin, and the abuse of his own free will, ...
www.newadvent.org/bible/rom009.htm
SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Vainglory (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 132) (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3132.htm)

Is desire of glory a sin? Is it opposed to magnanimity? ... First, as regards the intellect, and thus we have "obstinacy," by which a man is too much ...
www.newadvent.org/summa/3132.htm


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[Everlasting]

:groupray:

As we bear our souls to the Lord, that which was never a sin, became a sin by Adam and Eve. How then can we stand in judgment of anyone? And by what means can we exhault ourselves above God's original glory? We take nothing with us from this material world, but where would we be without the word of God, in it's material form? We are tempering justice and understanding, to meet the depths of this world, only as much as we are allowed. All other depths are those which we continually supplicate and pray to the Lord over. This is our challenge, to discern and inform our brethren, and leave the judging to God. :crosseo:


:priest:

Just A Thought
_____________


Everlasting,

:hug:

Moon Over Key Biscayne

[WarriorAngel]

:groupray:

As we bear our souls to the Lord, that which was never a sin, became a sin by Adam and Eve. How then can we stand in judgment of anyone? And by what means can we exhault ourselves above God's original glory? We take nothing with us from this material world, but where would we be without the word of God, in it's material form? We are tempering justice and understanding, to meet the depths of this world, only as much as we are allowed. All other depths are those which we continually supplicate and pray to the Lord over. This is our challenge, to discern and inform our brethren, and leave the judging to God. :crosseo:




Just A Thought
_____________


Everlasting,



Moon Over Key Biscayne

Well first let me say hello. :wave: Nice to meet you.
I do not see your icon stating you are from one of the Churches we have marked as membership...

Second, let me say that this is for the members of CF who have Traditional Apostolic Succession. [Information is posted in the sticky's if you have questions]

You may come in and fellowship and ask questions, but please do not come in to preach to us.

Like all other congregational areas, we are given certain license for discussion with one another, but we do not accept non T~AC members to come in and preach to us how wrong or judgemental we are.

Furthermore; I want to touch base with you about the presumption that we are judging.

WE are discussing. Tradition gives us information, otherwise absent in the scriptures. Since Scripture and Tradition both mark the components of the word of God....it is there for us to KNOW.

We have the ability to discuss sins. And perchance avoid them and near occasions of them.

God is love & mercy, but He is just punishment too. SO we are defining and talking about how this is...through Traditional understandings of our Churches.
AND one last thought...

The judging goes to God, but the admonishing comes from the brethrens.

WE are our brothers keepers.

*I apologize profoundly if I misunderstood your Church affiliation and your freedom to communicate in here about Tradition.*

IF that is the case, then I will simply say that we are supposed to talk through things that edify us and help us avoid sin.

Have a wonderful day.:hug:

[Everlasting]

:wave:
Hello Warrior Angel, :angel:

I think that your response to my answer, does not reflect my answer to the original question. "Unrepentent Sin". The topic itself goes to making a judgment call about how someone has to adapt to this world. When you know within your heart that there is something you shouldn't do. But circumstances don't permit. Even by so doing, the circumstance becomes a part of your life. Prayer and supplication represent meekness to the Lord, who can be a person's only judge. I think you may have mis-understood. I didn't say that you were judging anyone. I said that God is the only judge of a person's personal situation. Saying that someone is an "Unrepentent Sinner" does sound like judging, and judging someone who you don't know, is a sin. Isn't that like saying you think of yourself more highly than you should? The Bible is clear, if God chooses to punish someone, it certainly would'nt be based upon another person in this world's opinion. If he needed to do that, He would not be God.

Eph 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].



Just a Thought ~~ Blessings
_____________


May the love of the Father abide in your heart


Everlasting,

Moon over Key Biscayne
:groupray:


1 Pe 4:10
As every man hath received the gift, [even so] minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

[WarriorAngel]

EVerlasting, I would go more indepth, but I do not know which Church you are currently attending. :)

[Everlasting]

:crosseo:


I think we are on the same page. Have a blessed day ! ! !


Everlasting,

:angel:

Moon over Key Biscayne