Biased moderation.

[lunachick]

Hi. :)

As I understand it, a moderator is an esteemed member of the fora who is employed as a volunteer to keep discussions civil, make sure no one is breaking the rules, and squishing obvious trolls. I think many of the moderators here do a fine job of that, and I have respect for their position - even if we are in ideological disagreement regarding the world, society at large, etc.

However, there is the odd moderator (one in particular, actually) who uses their position to stifle opposing political views.

Now, I can understand debates being closed down or deleted in the religion-specific fora should they be advocating everyone turn to, say, hinduism, or something as that is against the Christian principles of the forum.

But, with regard to news and politics, there are Christian (and non-Christian) members of CF that hold widely diverse political views, ranging from the very liberal to the very conservative. I believe these views have a right to be aired and discussed from all angles - pro-Bush, anti-Bush, libertarian, socialist, whatever - without them being closed down simply because of moderator bias of the topic. The moderator, (if acting as a moderator rather than simply adding another point of view to the topic), should only be there to keep things civil.

As it stands in News & Politics at the moment, this is not happening. The moderator in question actually prevents polite discourse and robust debate by either; goading opponents into frustrated flames; locking the thread; or deleting posts because they are not in line with her own personal political ideology or are critical of those she holds as her "heroes".

Hmmm. I guess I'm both making a formal complaint and raising the issue of just what exactly a moderator's role at CF is, and the ethics of moderators using their CF moderating powers to further their own political bias by squishing opposing views.

[AngelAmidala]

Hi lunachick! :)

I think you have down what a moderator's role is, as you explained in your opening paragraph. I'd only add one thing. Moderators do actually have to deal with rule-breakers. General action is a PM from a mod asking a rule-breaker to edit their post so it doesn't break the rules anymore. If it's done, then that's the end of it. If it's not done, then we deal with warnings and stuff.

As to the complaint issue you brought up...I have two comments.

First being, here is a link to a thread in the Announcements forum. It is to the staff teams with instructions at the bottom of the post as to what the list is for. Pretty much it is for making formal complaints about specific moderators.

http://www.christianforums.com/t40986

The second thing I have to say is that I think I already know the issue you're speaking of. ;) And, in fact, it is being discussed by the staff. So, unless you really want to in this case, you don't even have to go through the whole staff team thing.

I hope this answered some of the questions you had. At least about the role of moderator and what to do with formal complaints. :)

[Reader Nilus]

I too have the same questions that lunachick has, on the subject of moderators and the closing of threads that do not seem to be that uncivil at all.
Jeff the Finn

[lunachick]

Thank you, AngelAmidala. :)

I will follow the link, and think (I'm a poet, heh ;)) about any further action with regard to a more formal complaint. But it sounds like you guys have got things in hand. :)

Many thanks!

Have a great night. :)

[No gods]

Angel, I will also be following the link you provided. Unfortunately, I had already PMed another admin of the news forum about the same problem, so hopefully I didn't step too far out of line with that. Anyway, thanks for the link and thanks for looking into this problem.

[Plan 9]

post deleted

[No gods]

I give up. I'm just going to going to avoid fora in which I am treated unfarily and am told twice that it's just.Plan9, want to share your experiences? I remember a similar "case" to this, and it took a lot of people sharing their experiences to make a difference.

[La Bonita Zorilla]

Without being specific I have noticed some improvement but I am aware of instances of unfairness to liberal Christians within the last year. One person in particular was banned after having received ONE warning rather than the requisite seven and moderators involved refused to dialogue with her but later claimed the opposite was so.

[Brimshack]

Plan 9

????????

[Inspired]

I give up. I'm just going to going to avoid fora in which I am treated unfarily and am told twice that it's just.No, no no. There are fair moderators on the site, give them a chance to deal with things, don't judge them based on the others. Breath come back, posthttp://christianforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

[Inspired]

Plan 9

????????:kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss:
hehehehe

[psycmajor]

God bless you, Inspired ;).

But God curse these darn wide threads!! :sick:

[Inspired]

God bless you, Inspired ;).

But God curse these darn wide threads!! :sick:
LOL, sorry I did one of those, I couldn't get my image to shirk and still be able to read the documentationhttp://christianforums.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

[TheBear]

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I will be personally looking into this, and doing my best to resolve these issues. You are all our guests, and we want you to feel welcome and comfortable here. :)

[Plan 9]

Post deleted

[Erwin]

Without being specific I have noticed some improvement but I am aware of instances of unfairness to liberal Christians within the last year. One person in particular was banned after having received ONE warning rather than the requisite seven and moderators involved refused to dialogue with her but later claimed the opposite was so.
One warning and they are banned? That is against our staff protocol:

[staffprotocol]

It could be that 2 other warnings were issued but because they were banned they never got it.

In any case, the senior staff are reviewing this.

[Inspired]

It happens Erwin, it has happened to me twice, think it's been almost 6 months since the last time, the situation was quickly remedied, but it happens.
Actually now that I think back, my banning was my warning, there was no prior warning to either one. Like I said though both were quickly resolved in my case.

[Outspoken]

why is it when members have something happen to them it is all of a sudden unfair on the whole? :scratch:

[Iron Maiden]

Can't you see Outspoken?

[Outspoken]

Can't you see Outspoken?
Nope. I don't. It seems to me like a little child crying when a parent disciplines them. I have more right then anyone here to do that, and i don't.

[JillLars]

Discipline without reason is not discipline at all. Things aren't fair if they are only fair to some people.

[Iron Maiden]

Nope. I don't. It seems to me like a little child crying when a parent disciplines them. I have more right then anyone here to do that, and i don't.

Empty your PM box hon. :)

[TheBear]

In any case, I would like for all who feel they have been subject to biased moderation, to PM me with all the specifics.

Thanks. :)

[nyj]

Nope. I don't. It seems to me like a little child crying when a parent disciplines them. I have more right then anyone here to do that, and i don't.
It's posts like these that are not very constructive. No reason to flame people who view something as a problem and then, through the proper channels, seek clarification. That Erwin has responded as he has, leads me to believe that he takes the issue very seriously. That he hasn't said something will be done, but rather that it will be looked into, shows just how fair he is trying to be with both the posters and his moderating staff.

Enough said.

[Blessed75]

It's posts like these that are not very constructive. No reason to flame people who view something as a problem and then, through the proper channels, seek clarification. That Erwin has responded as he has, leads me to believe that he takes the issue very seriously. That he hasn't said something will be done, but rather that it will be looked into, shows just how fair he is trying to be with both the posters and his moderating staff.

Enough said.
yes, i agree.......

[La Bonita Zorilla]

why is it when members have something happen to them it is all of a sudden unfair on the whole? :scratch:
It's a concept called distributive justice. It means an injury done to one is an injury done to the whole. It is not adhered to in dictatorial societies or those with fascist tendencies. It is highly valued in post Enlightenment Western democracies, however.

[La Bonita Zorilla]

Nope. I don't. It seems to me like a little child crying when a parent disciplines them. No, it most certainly is not; it is much more accurate to say it is like a little child crying after she has been given 75 strokes with a razor strap, hit with fists, had her head banged against the wall, had her hand held over a lit gas stove burner, been penetrated with objects, and then thrown outside and told to sleep with the pigs in a frozen mud puddle in 20 degree Minnesota winter weather.

I have more right then anyone here to do that, and i don't.Interestingly, in nearly every severely abusive family there are siblings who are not abused at all who generally conceive of the abused child as the 'bad one' and themselves as 'good ones'.

[Mr.Cheese]

I think we should start handing out pacifiers.

[MarieAnn]

I think we should start handing out pacifiers.
http://jeffburden.net/cf/baby01.gif

http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/hug.gif

[SqueezetheShaman]

No, it most certainly is not; it is much more accurate to say it is like a little child crying after she has been given 75 strokes with a razor strap, hit with fists, had her head banged against the wall, had her hand held over a lit gas stove burner, been penetrated with objects, and then thrown outside and told to sleep with the pigs in a frozen mud puddle in 20 degree Minnesota winter weather.

Interestingly, in nearly every severely abusive family there are siblings who are not abused at all who generally conceive of the abused child as the 'bad one' and themselves as 'good ones'.
you depressed the living daylights out of me you know http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

[Erwin]

Please, let's not allow this thread to degenerate into a flame-war between certain members.

With a staff of over 65 or so at the moment, it's hard to keep track of what an individual moderator does. Obviously no one here is perfect, and we all make mistakes. The issue is that we learn from them, and improve ourselves.

I want to apologize on behalf of all staff and members if anyone has been hurt by being a part of this community. It is not intentional, and we are only doing what we think is best for CF. We do try our best, with what we have, to do the best for everyone, and be fair to all.

[Plan 9]

I think we should start handing out pacifiers.
That was a low blow, Mr. Cheese. I've taken my complaint to two moderators with no result. You can give my pacifier to someone else, thank you.

[SqueezetheShaman]

That was a low blow, Mr. Cheese. I've taken my complaint to two moderators with no result. You can give my pacifier to someone else, thank you.
I dont' think he was directing it to you planny, but i may be wrong...it doesn't happen often...but it is possible...not likely..although stranger things have happened :) nah who am i kidding. i am always right

[Plan 9]

I dont' think he was directing it to you planny, but i may be wrong...it doesn't happen often...but it is possible...not likely..although stranger things have happened :) nah who am i kidding. i am always right

I made a complaint about biased moderation.

[Inspired]

I think we should start handing out pacifiers.
Can I have a purple one?:P ooo ooo and a rattle?

:hug: :hug:

[Plan 9]

Can I have a purple one?:P ooo ooo and a rattle?

:hug: :hug:If you break my brand new rattle, you're in big trouble, Inspired!

Tweedledum and Tweedledee set out to fight a battle.

[Mr.Cheese]

That's funny. I banned tweedle dee and tweedle dum a few days ago.

Plan 9 and I are all good now.


Now listen up. If you have a problem. Don't rag on us in public. really. That's a waste of everyone's time. That's what the binkies are for.
Our admins care. Talk to them and they'll work on trying to accomodate you. This isn't a perfect world, but we try to do the best we can.

[Iron Maiden]

That was a low blow, Mr. Cheese. I've taken my complaint to two moderators with no result. You can give my pacifier to someone else, thank you.

That wasn't very nice of Mr. Cheese, that was ugly. In my opinion this is one kind of childish behavior that should be addressed also, it's supposed to be a Christian ministry not a belittlement fora.

If this was "Ministry" the bands website or Henry Rollins.com then I would understand. Its not like Mr.Cheese has been singled out, well it's your foum, so I guess you can and should run it anyway you want, but make things clear, like if you're going to give out pacifiers, maybe Irwin could hack a button on the bottom and we could get pacifier points. :idea:

[Erwin]

LOL! Pacifier points.

Mr.Cheese probably didn't mean it to come out the way it did. I agree it can be misread as being a bit patronising. As I know Mr.Cheese, I know that he does not mean for it to come across that way.

He is a good bloke. :)

[Susan]

LOL! Pacifier points, now that IS funny. . .makes me think of this fanart image I posted somewhere here a while back (which few people posting here would understand, nevertheless. . .). . .LOL :D :D :D can't. . .stop. . .laughing.

Needles to say, I think pacifier points would be a bad idea, although I've seen a few people I'd like to give them to sometimes. As we all have. :)

[nyj]

Now listen up. If you have a problem. Don't rag on us in public. really. That's a waste of everyone's time.

Generally, I agree with this. However, when someone has felt that they have tried extensively to seek remediation via PMs and nothing has been done, what other recourse do they have?

Our admins care. Talk to them and they'll work on trying to accomodate you.
As far as I know, and from my vantage point, it's not about accomodating people, it's about making sure that proper procedure is being followed, moderator bias is removed from judgements and justice is dispensed properly at CF.

[lunachick]

Now listen up. If you have a problem. Don't rag on us in public. really. That's a waste of everyone's time.

Generally, I agree with this. However, when someone has felt that they have tried extensively to seek remediation via PMs and nothing has been done, what other recourse do they have?Ditto to what nyj said.

In my OP, I was careful not to name names, although given how specific my complaint was, anyone who posts in those particular fora would know who I was talking about - those who don't would've been none the wiser.

For me to take it to PM to the administrator would've been quite useless, all things considered.

As for the usual protocol of complaints, I was unaware of those - thinking this forum to serve that very function. Also, by bringing the topic to this forum allowed others to air their issues regarding biased moderation, which I see as being healthy - provided it doesn't decend into a flame war. I guess it did decend a little, and I'm sorry about that - a flame war was certainly not my intent.

I hadn't sent in a formal PM of complaint, as I've been pretty busy (and pretty sick - I have a crazy mad cough that hurts my throat and lungs like heck), but was intending to do that sometime this week had the issue not yet been resolved. It seems that the issue has been worked out by the admin team, and I thank you. :)

As far as I know, and from my vantage point, it's not about accomodating people, it's about making sure that proper procedure is being followed, moderator bias is removed from judgements and justice is dispensed properly at CF.Yep. That's the one! :clap:

Cheers, all. :)

[Plan 9]

[/i]
I hadn't sent in a formal PM of complaint, as I've been pretty busy (and pretty sick - I have a crazy mad cough that hurts my throat and lungs like heck), but was intending to do that sometime this week had the issue not yet been resolved. It seems that the issue has been worked out by the admin team, and I thank you. :)

Yep. That's the one! :clap:

Cheers, all. :)
I thought your OP was friendly and tastefully written.

My health is too poor to allow me to pursue my complaint any farther. Two moderators did respond and offer to assist me, but I had already spent too much time and effort to continue, so I asked them to drop it. I did want to post publicly that I received these offers of help, which I appreciate very much. :)

[Lotar]

Ya, I think anyone who spends a little time in the Politics forum knows what Lunachick is talking about. I've seen several threads closed by that moderator only to be reopened by another.

[Erwin]

A decision to close a thread by a mod is never a final one. Such things are always discussed by other mods, and threads can be reopened later on if that is felt to be appropriate.

[datan]

Generally, I agree with this. However, when someone has felt that they have tried extensively to seek remediation via PMs and nothing has been done, what other recourse do they have?

out of curiosity, how do you feel about this issue now on the opposite side of the fence?


As far as I know, and from my vantage point, it's not about accomodating people, it's about making sure that proper procedure is being followed, moderator bias is removed from judgements and justice is dispensed properly at CF.

Exactly!!!
Could not have said so better myself.

[datan]

no, in case you're wondering, I'm not harassing you.

I'm genuinely curious--you were once in our position and shared the exact same concerns. Now that you've cross over to "the other side", have those concerns been assuaged?

[Shannonkish]

It seems like this issue has been brought almost a year ago.. and the issue is still here... hmm.. so much for that accountability thing, huh.

[datan]

hm...
in spite of the title, let's not turn this into a bash CF mods threads 'coz there's enough around.

I really want to hear how nyj's views have changed since he joined staff, since he seemed to have shared the exact same concerns that many of us are now bringing up.

For all I care, you can lock this thread and just post your reply.

[ej]

i just bumped this

http://www.christianforums.com/t111931

cos the question was never answered backin april

[WesleyJohn]

A decision to close a thread by a mod is never a final one. Such things are always discussed by other mods, and threads can be reopened later on if that is felt to be appropriate.
For instance, my decision to close this thread will be discussed by other mods, and it may be overturned, but I doubt it. :)

The Forum Support moderation staff has been very open and lenient on the recent discussions. We have read and responded to your concerns. However, there is a limit to our patience, and a limit to the number of threads we will allow on this topic. Dragging up a year-old thread and populating the "above-the-fold" area with your concerns and in this forum will not be tolerated. It is beginning to look like a spam-fest in here, with all the threads revolving around the basic same topics. There are other members with other questions and concerns, and these need to be addressed as well. Please confine your concerns to a single active thread.

Thank you,

WesleyJohn
Forum Support Moderator
Team Kindness