Christian Perfection

[FallingWaters]

I read an article by Adam Clarke this morning on Christian Perfection.
I have a lot of respect for Adam Clarke.
I believe that he was truly born again,
and a great scholar and theologian.

I liked this idea, and I think I agree with it.

Apparently, Christian Perfection was a Wesleyan teaching and I was wondering if Methodist churches still teach it today.

And I was wondering if what is taught today is exactly like what Wesley taught or if it's been changed.

http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/178clarke_a2.htm

[FallingWaters]

Is anybody here familiar with this doctrine?

[Redheadedstepchild]

I am no expert on anything, but It sounds similar to the idea of holiness which is still taught in some Wesleyan denominations.

[FallingWaters]

I am no expert on anything, but It sounds similar to the idea of holiness which is still taught in some Wesleyan denominations.Yes. I think it's related to Holiness doctrine.

[mouse1203]

It is still taught in the Wesleyan denomination. I did some research on it about a year ago. I believe it is the same as Wesley taught.

[GraceSeeker]

I read an article by Adam Clarke this morning on Christian Perfection.
I have a lot of respect for Adam Clarke.
I believe that he was truly born again,
and a great scholar and theologian.

I liked this idea, and I think I agree with it.

Apparently, Christian Perfection was a Wesleyan teaching and I was wondering if Methodist churches still teach it today.

And I was wondering if what is taught today is exactly like what Wesley taught or if it's been changed.

http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/178clarke_a2.htm (http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/178clarke_a2.htm)


Indeed Wesley did teach it. It is something that you will still find being taught in all varieties of methodism today, including the United Methodist Church. But of course how much attention is given to it is going to very from church to church and pastor to pastor. I happen to have my copy of John Wesley's A Plain Account of Christian Perfection sitting on my desk from having used it as part of my last Bible study class.

[FallingWaters]

I understand what Wesley was trying to teach.
He wanted people to set their aim high- at holy living.
Not to think "I can't ever be perfect so why bother trying?"

There's a new statistic out.
65% of Christian Americans believe God does not expect them to be holy.

We should probably be doing a better job of discipling.

[GraceSeeker]

I understand what Wesley was trying to teach.
He wanted people to set their aim high- at holy living.
Not to think "I can't ever be perfect so why bother trying?"

There's a new statistic out.
65% of Christian Americans believe God does not expect them to be holy.

We should probably be doing a better job of discipling.


That doesn't surpise me. Nearly all Americans claim to believe in God and as much as 3/4 of all Americans actually belong to a church. But it is also true that 3/4 of all Americans did attend church this week. We're a conflicted people and Christians are just as likely to engage in "unholy" activities as the unchurched.

[ContraMundum]

Adam Clarke was an early Methodist....so he got his idea of Christian Perfection from the Methodist movement...who in turn got it from various other sources, but ultimately all from the Bible.

Also- Adam Clarke's commentary on the Bible is still amongst the finest around, and much of his works are available online if you do a search.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

The Nazarene church also teaches Christian Perfection/Holiness like John Wesley taught.

[FallingWaters]

Adam Clarke was an early Methodist....so he got his idea of Christian Perfection from the Methodist movement...who in turn got it from various other sources, but ultimately all from the Bible.

Also- Adam Clarke's commentary on the Bible is still amongst the finest around, and much of his works are available online if you do a search.I have a copy of his work through e-sword. (http://www.e-sword.net/)

[HeatherJay]

Is anybody here familiar with this doctrine?
Yes, the Church of the Nazarene holds to the doctrine of Entire Sanctification. Google that term and you're likely to come up with lots of info in relationship to the modern Wesleyan denominations.

The doctrine of Theosis is a similar concept practiced in the orthodox/catholic tradition.

[GraceSeeker]

Is anybody here familiar with this doctrine?

So, Falling Waters, several people have said, "YES," we are familiar with it. Did you have any specific questions about it?

[Ciana]

Andrew Murray also wrote a great book, 'Be Perfect'.

[ContraMundum]

Most of Andrew Murray's books centre in one way or another on Christian Perfection- good call Ciana!

[ContraMundum]

I have a copy of his work through e-sword. (http://www.e-sword.net/)

E-Sword also has a "STEP Library" with a great selection of Wesleyan-Holiness books. It's free, of course.

[Speculative]

Great! I'll have to download that Wesleyan collection from e-sword. I had previously thought they only had bibles.

I've heard a little bit about Christian perfection but must admit I never could quite grasp it.

I have a quick question for those of you that may have a handle on this doctrine: Does this teach that we may become sinless in this life?

Thanks :)

[HeatherJay]

Great! I'll have to download that Wesleyan collection from e-sword. I had previously thought they only had bibles.

I've heard a little bit about Christian perfection but must admit I never could quite grasp it.

I have a quick question for those of you that may have a handle on this doctrine: Does this teach that we may become sinless in this life?

Thanks :)
To state such would be a vast oversimplication of sanctification.

It, in a nutshell, states that we are born with hearts that are naturally inclined (or "bent") toward sin...a good mental picture is a heart bound in chains. Through God and His divine gift of grace in sanctifying us, the power of sin on our hearts is broken. Through sanctification, our hearts are "bent" back toward God and His holy purpose for our lives. The chains on our heart are broken and we gain power over sin...a gift of grace from God.

So, back to the idea of sinlessness...I doubt that there are very many people that have walked this earth who can claim to have never committed another sin after being sanctified. BUT, entire sanctification does means that our hearts are no longer controlled by sin, no longer are we slaves to sin...we have power over sin through Christ.

Personally, I don't know a single Nazarene (or other Holiness believer) who would claim to be "sinless" (lol, though I've heard stories that such people DO exist, lol)...but I do know many that demonstrate what it means to be holy and walk upright inside God's total will and purpose.

It's a tricky doctrine to explain, lol. Hopefully I haven't slaughtered it in trying to explain it. I do believe that God calls us to be holy as He is holy...and I believe that sanctification is the way in which God makes that feat possible. 'Cuz heaven knows we can't acheive holiness on our own. :bow:

[GraceSeeker]

Great! I'll have to download that Wesleyan collection from e-sword. I had previously thought they only had bibles.

I've heard a little bit about Christian perfection but must admit I never could quite grasp it.

I have a quick question for those of you that may have a handle on this doctrine: Does this teach that we may become sinless in this life?

Thanks :)

Basically, it is the idea that God takes away our bent to sinning. And of course, if that were true and we were entirely sanctified, then it follows that we would not will to sin, and as sins are acts of our will not being submissive to God's will then those who are totally devoted to doing the will of God would never sin. but like HeatherJay indicated, achieving that theoretically is easier than it seems to be in practice. Though, I had a secretary once who made it was true of.

[Speculative]

Thanks for your input, you guys. I'm still not quite getting it. I think I understand sanctification, but adding the adjective "entire" in front of it kind of throws me for a loop. I have to think/pray/study this some more. God Bless :)

[GraceSeeker]

Thanks for your input, you guys. I'm still not quite getting it. I think I understand sanctification, but adding the adjective "entire" in front of it kind of throws me for a loop. I have to think/pray/study this some more. God Bless :)


Sanctification -- the process by which one comes to reflect more and more of the character of God in one's life. The process by which one becomes more and more Christlike and less and less given to desiring anything other than the things of God and to do God's will versus one's own human (sinful) will.

Entire sanctification -- reflecting nothing other than the character of God in one's life. Actually being Christlike so that one desires only to do God's will and not one's own will with regard to anything in life.

[bmjackson]

That's a good explanation GraceSeeker

Entire Sanctification is being able to live without any sin at all. Awesome. I can witness to it.