Church of Satan - Neo-Conservativism/Modern Republicans.

[Cosmic Charlie]

I would never get away with this on OBOB and I see this as a moral issue rather then a political one.

This is serious question for me so if you can't take it seriously, done respond.

What follows are the 5 percepts of the Church of Satan (Cos), which is not and never has been devil worship. Instead it is a narcissistic, self-possessed, pagan religion this seems to form the basis of neo-con philosophy. Why is this important?

Neo-cons have control of this country.

My comments are in-line.

Stratification—The point on which all the others ultimately rest. There can be no more myth of “equality” for all—it only translates to “mediocrity” and supports the weak at the expense of the strong. Water must be allowed to seek its own level without interference from apologists for incompetence. No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity.

( The basis of neo-con philosophy is that free markets are gods. They naturally organize and find their own levels. Once empowered and enriched by a free market winners and losers are found. The winners get tax breaks and wealth the losers are just incompetent. Also neo-cons have spent most of the 30 years removing the backstops and safety nets of society, allowing people to be unprotected from the own "stupidity")

2. Strict taxation of all churches—If churches were taxed for all their income and property, they’d crumble overnight of their own obsolescence, and the National Debt would be wiped out as quickly. The productive, the creative, the resourceful should be subsidized. So long as the useless and incompetent are getting paid, they should be heavily taxed.

(Leaving the church part out of this is forms the basis for tax policy in America. The rich get few taxes; the middle and lower classes get taxed. The US economy gets deeply in debt, the rich go overseas. Corporations make money, small businesses get destroyed.

3. No tolerance for religious beliefs secularized and incorporated into law and order issues—to re-establish “Lex Talionis” would require a complete overturning of the present in-justice system based on Judeo-Christian ideals, where the victim/defender has been made the criminal. Amnesty should be considered for anyone in prison because of his alleged “influence” upon the actual perpetrator of the crime. Everyone is influenced in what he or she does. Scapegoating has become a way of life, a means of survival for the unfit. As an extension of the Judeo-Christian cop-out of blaming the Devil for everything, criminals can gain leniency, even praise, by placing the blame on a convenient villain. Following the Satanic creed of “Responsibility to the responsible,” in a Satanic society, everyone must experience the consequences of his own actions—for good or ill.

(Two words - Scooter Libby. Two more - habis corpis. Look, personal responsibility is a benchmark of neo-con's until they have to take it, then everyone gets a pass. This paragraph is convoluted but it is saying exactly the same thing. )

4. Development and production of artificial human companions—The forbidden industry. An economic “godsend” which will allow everyone “power” over someone else. Polite, sophisticated, technologically feasible slavery. And the most profitable industry since T.V. and the computer.

(The neo-cons couldn't pull this off so they just make it easy to exploit real humans:

white slavery,
sex slavery,
child labor,
union breaking,
destruction of the middle class
inability to access higher education
and so on.....

All brought to you be the ne0-con religion of globalization and international unmanaged free markets.

5. The opportunity for anyone to live within a total environment of his or her choice, with mandatory adherence to the aesthetic and behavioral standards of same—Privately owned, operated and controlled environments as an alternative to homogenized and polyglot ones. The freedom to insularism oneself within a social milieu of personal well-being. An opportunity to feel, see, and hear that which is most aesthetically pleasing, without interference from those who would pollute or detract from that option.

(George Bush is the poster boy for ne0-cons, need I say more? )

Let's get right to the point: I am saying that our country is being run by the CoS ?

No.

I am saying its being run by people with the same principles as the CoS ?

Yes I am

Am I insane or is this truly, frightening ?
I mean, we need armed insurrection frightening ?

[Miss Shelby]

Charlie. You know that if a thread were to have been started in obob stating Church of Satan: Modern Liberalism, it may have lasted for a while, but the title would have been toned down to something different. Because the liberals would have blown a gasket from just the mere suggestion that they were of the devil.

When Renton started the thread-- are pro choicers monsters, the title was changed because people were oh so offended at the implication.

But you know what? This is your forum. So do what you will. I won't report the thread because the title might be offensive, and I hope you're enjoying your new found freedom.

[Cosmic Charlie]

Charlie. You know that if a thread were to have been started in obob stating Church of Satan: Modern Liberalism, it may have lasted for a while, but the title would have been toned down to something different. Because the liberals would have blown a gasket from just the mere suggestion that they were of the devil.

When Renton started the thread-- are pro choicers monsters, the title was changed because people were oh so offended at the implication.

But you know what? This is your forum. So do what you will. I won't report the thread because the title might be offensive, and I hope you're enjoying your new found freedom.
Don't blame me, CaDan convinced me this forum was a bad idea

And beside I'm making a cohensive arguement, I you want to do for lib's, do it, I say.


(And shel: no matter what you think of me, like a sinner before the gates of heaven I'll come crawling on back to you )

[MikeK]

Enough with the Meatloaf!

Am I insane or is this truly, frightening ?
I mean, we need armed insurrection frightening ?

It's not that frightening.

[Cosmic Charlie]

Enough with the Meatloaf!



It's not that frightening.
I'm begining to doubt my sanity.

I will have to find the document signed by two head doc's that says I am in fact sane.

Maybe the warrentee has expried.

[Cosmic Charlie]

Enough with the Meatloaf!



It's not that frightening.

Oh, i'm realy messed up.

I',m seeing a ghost line in your quote.

Its like hearing the voices again.

Only online.

[MikeK]

I just mean, you know, same as it ever was. Neo-Cons are as the Preo-Cons were. Nothing new under the sun. We'll be okay. No need to adjust your meds - just tweak the vertical hold and wiggle the antenna a bit.


(is "tweak the vertical hold" an obsolete phrase?")

[Fish and Bread]

I actually do understand Charlie's point here. It is valid and worthwhile to point out that many Republican values are actually anti-Christian and anti-Catholic in many respects. I actually can produce a whole list of Papal quotes and quotes from prominent churchmen that talk about the government having a responsibility to the poor in terms of social programs, a gap between the rich and the poor being a bad thing, and so forth. And I agree that, contrary to their rhetoric, the actual policy recommendations and moves by Republicans in power do not demonstrate that they value life in any way, at least not after life is born.

However, having said that, I do not believe the Republican Party is the Church of Satan. I think there are a lot of good well-intentioned people who are Republicans, and there are a small number of issues (like abortion) that I do agree with the Republicans on. However, by and large, I find their party as a whole frightening and their use of religious imagery to advance anti-religious aims a bit strange.

[Cosmic Charlie]

I just mean, you know, same as it ever was. Neo-Cons are as the Preo-Cons were. Nothing new under the sun. We'll be okay. No need to adjust your meds - just tweak the vertical hold and wiggle the antenna a bit.


(is "tweak the vertical hold" an obsolete phrase?")
No more than referiring the TV static as "raster"

[Cosmic Charlie]

I actually do understand Charlie's point here. It is valid and worthwhile to point out that many Republican values are actually anti-Christian and anti-Catholic in many respects. I actually can produce a whole list of Papal quotes and quotes from prominent churchmen that talk about the government having a responsibility to the poor in terms of social programs, a gap between the rich and the poor being a bad thing, and so forth. And I agree that, contrary to their rhetoric, the actual policy recommendations and moves by Republicans in power do not demonstrate that they value life in any way, at least not after life is born.

However, having said that, I do not believe the Republican Party is the Church of Satan. I think there are a lot of good well-intentioned people who are Republicans, and there are a small number of issues (like abortion) that I do agree with the Republicans on. However, by and large, I find their party as a whole scary. And I have no clue as to why it's thought as the Christian party in this country, makes no sense to me.
Maybe you meds need adjusting too.

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

I dunno, I don't like the Neo-Cons, I don't think a fully "free" market is ever in the interests of the people and I think their foreign policy is doomed - but I'm still having trouble following your reasoning.

No.1, is a valid point in my opinion - but everything after that, I don't see how they really relate to the Neo-Conservatives in a big way.

And I don't follow American politics to a big extent, but all the sound coming from there are telling me that the Neo-Cons are on their way out.

[JasonV]

I think I might need meds....

[UberLutheran]

I'm a liberal Democrat and proud to say it -- but I'm in complete agreement with many of my Republican friends in saying that we have spent ourselves into a very deep and very serious financial hole called a nine trillion dollar national debt and a quarter trillion dollar trade imbalance, and we're going to have to own up to the responsibility of our actions and begin to dig ourselves out of this hole or we're doomed.

It means we're going to have to get rid of duplicated effort in government and develop a government which is streamlined and very efficient at what it does; we'll probably need to establish protective tariffs to rebuild our manufacturing sector so we aren't importing cheap goods from China (which is subsidizing our national debt buy buying our securities while we buy their cheap products); we'll have to make the difficult decisions of deciding which programs are absolutely necessary (including healthcare) and then reprioritize our spending, and that includes not playing 911 for the rest of the world when they get into problems; and we'll need to raise taxes and leave them there until we've got 90 percent of the national debt paid off (and that will still be one trillion dollars).

I have intense dislike for the neoconservatives and what they've done to this country; but I can certainly identify with the fiscal conservatism of traditional Republicans. If we don't have the money to pay for what we want or a good plan to pay back the money we're going to borrow to get what we want -- then we wait until we do have the money to get that thing and we haven't been doing that for quite some time.

[drstevej]

I have intense dislike for the neoconservatives

:wave:

except Buzz!
Right?

[Fish and Bread]

To me, the Democratic Party has become the party of balanced budgets and rebuilding our industrial infrastructure, at least more so than the Republican Party (Neither party seems very keen on those two issues, to be honest). I know it seems implausible, but if fiscal responsibility and trade policies that protect workers are the way you want to go, I think you're better off a donkey than an elephant nowadays!

I was actually a big fan of Ross Perot, so I can certainly sympathize with what UberLutheran is saying. Balanced budgets, paying down the national debt, and high-wage industrial jobs should be important priorities for the leaders of this country.

[Protinus]

It has been pointed out that this thread might be offensive to conservative Christians in the newly formed Conservative Christian Forum. I would like the group to consider moving it to the Politics Forum. I can do it but need group approval as we have no forum specific moderators yet.

[Miss Shelby]

No Protinus, that is not what happened at all.

You were complaining about some doofus conservative Christian referring to liberals as devil worshipers. I pointed out that here in your very own pet forum you have a member willing to compare neo-cons to the Church of satan, a sentiment which would have died a dismal death in OBOB had it been the opposite.

Don't move it on my account. I don't care what is said in here or by whom. But if I see inconsistency in what you're willing to tolerate, I am going to point it out. And turfing it to another forum is hardly expressing consistency, when if it had been in OBOB the title would have been toned down to something 'politically correct'.

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

I agree. I would, broadly, describe myself as conservative and I don't have a problem with this thread. I'm not sure why it would be any less offensive to neo-cons in the politics section either.

[Protinus]

No Protinus, that is not what happened at all.

You were complaining about some doofus conservative Christian referring to liberals as devil worshipers. I pointed out that here in your very own pet forum you have a member willing to compare neo-cons to the Church of satan, a sentiment which would have died a dismal death in OBOB had it been the opposite.

Don't move it on my account. I don't care what is said in here or by whom. But if I see inconsistency in what you're willing to tolerate, I am going to point it out. And turfing it to another forum is hardly expressing consistency, when if it had been in OBOB the title would have been toned down to something 'politically correct'.

"doofus conservative"?? whatever...and I take offense that you would have this as "my pet forum". And for your information, I was not trying to move it on your account...however, if the perception is out there that this is offensive to conservation christians, I will ask this group to move it as was suggested by Grizzly.

and thanks Charlie.

[Cosmic Charlie]

You know as the OP I asked that serouis discussion take place in this thread because I see this as a serious issue.

If, indeed, the veiws of the industrialists, politicains and finaniers of this country have become the same as those expressed by the CoS, I beleive we have a problem with the underlying bedrock of the US.

This to me, as I stated is a moral issue and this is a moral forum (for all its liberal tone) to move this to a political based forum would, IMO, be one those moves that mods used to do rather arbitrailly to head of a actual conversation for occuring.

[Protinus]

You know as the OP I asked that serouis discussion take place in this thread because I see this as a serious issue.

If, indeed, the veiws of the industrialists, politicains and finaniers of this country have become the same as those expressed by the CoS, I beleive we have a problem with the underlying bedrock of the US.

This to me, as I stated is a moral issue and this is a moral forum (for all its liberal tone) to move this to a political based forum would, IMO, be one those moves that mods used to do rather arbitrailly to head of a actual conversation for occuring.


I quite frankly did not know how to respond initially. So I didn't post. So I'm convinced that you are serious that it is a moral and theologic issue.

I will state my mind though if Miss Shelby accuses me of a double standard...I see no basis for it and I'm additionally miffed that she now calls this forum my "pet forum".

[Cosmic Charlie]

I quite frankly did not know how to respond initially. So I didn't post. So I'm convinced that you are serious that it is a moral and theologic issue.

I will state my mind though if Miss Shelby accuses me of a double standard...I see no basis for it and I'm additionally miffed that she now calls this forum my "pet forum".
Hey, it hardly matters,

No one cared anyway. No one even posted for a week before tonight and all the posts were bull for the most part anyway.

And lighten up with ya ?

[Protinus]

Hey, it hardly matters,

No one cared anyway. No one even posted for a week before tonight and all the posts were bull for the most part anyway.

And lighten up with ya ?


FWIW, I was thanking Charlie (gibbon) for his earlier comment. I wasn't making a sarcastic remark about your thread.

[Miss Shelby]

Protinus, you'd do yourself a favor by not victimizing yourself every time you read some stupid comment by some stupid person calling liberals devil worshippers, or some equally such bogus nonsense. Like who cares? That's my point.

[Cosmic Charlie]

FWIW, I was thanking Charlie (gibbon) for his earlier comment. I wasn't making a sarcastic remark about your thread.
My mistake.

[Aymn27]

Well CC - in all honesty - I read through your five points and I would have to say each one is spot on for the Democrat/Socialist regime that is called mainstream Democratic party. As a libertarian-Republican, I also have issues with this neo-con administration and the way it has run things (exactly like a Democrat/Socialist would have), but sorry to say - it is the fact that they are acting like Democrats NOT Republicans...

[Cosmic Charlie]

Well, now that you've got your chops in against the dem's do you want to say something about the broader point of these concepts being the base concepts of either party in this country ?

Or is your point only that dem's suck ?

Which means your part of the problem.

[Domenico]

If you organize an armed insurrection, I'll come across the Pacific and help. I've long been looking for a excuse to shoot someone with my longbow.

[Miss Shelby]

/

[Gukkor]

Bipartisan politics make me sick, moreso when it worms its slimy tentacles into religious matters. Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives; no matter what labels they fall under, they are almost always greedy, lying people who in truth worship only themselves. There is no "good" political party in America.

[D'Ann]

Well Charlie... not sure what to say. Interesting op.

God's Peace,

Debbie