St. Sergius of Radonezh

[a_ntv]

St. Sergius of Radonezh (Bartholomew of Radonezh)

This venerable saint, born in Russia in 1314 and died in 1392, has the particularity to be venerated officially both by the EO and by the Catholics.
There are many common saints, but a very few ones after the 1054

His feast is the 25 September

Here a link to his page at Catholic Online (http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=905)

He is also venerated by the EO (I suppose it, looking at here (http://www.goarch.org/en/Chapel/saints.asp?contentid=2344))

[Mary of Bethany]

Yes, he is. We have an icon of him in our nursery at church. Apparently, he is known for caring for children. I'm sorry to say I've never learned about him.


Mary

[xristos.anesti]

http://www.cnit.uniyar.ac.ru/yaros/images1/yaros_73/drev_y61.jpg

http://www.sobornost.org/images/sergius_large.gif

http://p.vtourist.com/1085482-Trinity_Monastery_of_St_Sergius-Sergiyev_Posad.jpg

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/1020/2005454990058763230S425x425Q85.jpg

http://www.orthodox.cn/images/aeroviewsm.jpg





Two icons of St. Sergius and a couple of photos of his Holy Trinity Monastery.

Troparion to our father among the saints - Sergius of Radonezh:


As a virtuous ascetic athlete, and true warrior of Christ our God, fighting fiercely the good fight against the passions during this earthly life, labouring in song, vigil and fasting thou wast an example to thy disciples.

Wherefore, the Holy Spirit made His abode in thee Whose activity adorned thee with radiant beauty: Since thou hast great boldness towards the Holy Trinity remember thy flock wisely gathered by thee and forget not as thou didst promise to visit thy children, O holy Father Sergius.

[EmperorConstantine]

His feast is the 25 September
New Calendar or Old Calendar?

[karen freeinchristman]

25 September is held as a day of commemoration for St. Sergei of Radonezh in the Anglican Church. :)

[Monica, child of God]

Why does he enjoy the honor of being venerated outside of the Orthodox church?

M.

[xristos.anesti]

Why does he enjoy the honor of being venerated outside of the Orthodox church?

M.

There are some Saints of the East - not many of the West - well, none that I know of - that are venerated by the both Churches - saints who lived to Lord after the Schism - St. Sava the 1st Archepiskop of Serbia is another one - it stems mainly from Greek-Catholics who having received the Orthodox faith continued to venerate their Orthodox saints after the Unianitisation - this custom spread among the Latin Catholics of the area.

[a_ntv]

There are some Saints of the East - not many of the West - well, none that I know of - that are venerated by the both Churches - saints who lived to Lord after the Schism - St. Sava the 1st Archepiskop of Serbia is another one - it stems mainly from Greek-Catholics who having received the Orthodox faith continued to venerate their Orthodox saints after the Unianitisation - this custom spread among the Latin Catholics of the area.

A saint for the Catholic Church is NOT venerated ONLY in a single area, but his veneration shall be recognized by ALL the Church all over the world. Otherwise we call him blessed.

Som, also St Sava is considered saint ALL OVER the Catholic Church: his page on Catholic Online (http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=755)

[xristos.anesti]

A saint for the Catholic Church is NOT venerated ONLY in a single area, but his veneration shall be recognized by ALL the Church all over the world. Otherwise we call him blessed.

Som, also St Sava is considered saint ALL OVER the Catholic Church: his page on Catholic Online (http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=755)

Many years,

I am talking about the origin of the occurrence that post schism saints are revered by the one or the other church - I doubt that once St. Sava reposed Rome declared him a saint - rather it happened when some crossed over to Rome they retained their saints from the Orthodoxy.

General Note:

Not all conversions of Orthodox were peaceful and not all Orthodox that united to Rome became either Roman Catholics or Byzantine Catholics by the virtue of peace and love - indeed many were converted under the pain of death - (i.e. conversion of Serbs during existence of fascist Roman Catholic State of Croatia 1941-1945) - but, it seems that it is not politically correct to mention this - especially since the former pope JPII declared for a saint a man that was one of the principal characters in slaughter of Serbs during WWII - Cardinal Stepinac. This is why JPII was never allowed to come to Serbia. But, who cares anyhow, Serbs are enemies who need to be bombed and their land needs to be given to the Moslems - with friends like Western Christians some Orthodox really need no other enemies...As far as occurrences of Orthodox saints being recognised by the Rome - some on the East (including me) see it a a political strategy that Rome uses to make easier for Orthodox to convert under Rome - and find nothing but evil in such cases - we see it as a pretense - I came from Bosnia and know for a fact that only some Byzantine Catholics - former Serbian Orthodox - consider St. Sava for a saint in a true sense of the word - Roman Catholic Croats were burning Orthodox Churches dedicated to this saint in times of Ante Pavelic in 1941-1945 and Franjo Tudjman in 1991-1995.

The reason I am saying this - as conflictive as it is - is so that all of us understand that any attempt by Rome and Roman Catholics to present situation between East and West as better than it truly is - and present it as that we Orthodox should re-unite with Latins and are not doing it because we are stubborn and because we remember things that happened thousands years ago - is really not the fact - my mother remember her fathers head being cut off because he was a priest and did not want to convert to Roman Catholicism in 1944 - while my grandma in order to save her children - and indeed me (by saving my mother when she was a little girl) - converted. They (my grandmother and my mother) were Roman Catholic until 1945 when they returned to Orthodoxy with the whole of the family - the 12 out of 68 of those who were left alive.

It is a constant - never ending and never ceasing river of presentations from Rome (even on these forums) that state how the reasons for our separation are really just little long forgotten things that matter not - "here, we even have the same saints - why not re-unite?"

it will not happen until Rome does what she should do.

Sorry, a-ntv - but I see your OP as another case of this tactic.

Maybe you did not have such intent, or did not do it consciously - actually I am sure you did not - but some of European born Orthodox here are very sensitive to things, we lived through them and still do.

I am glad and grateful that many Roman Catholics do have a great respect for us Orthodox - indeed even more than we can reciprocate - but the causes for our separation and effects of it are as real and as deep - if not deeper - than at the time of definite separation (probably at the time of the council of Florence in XV century).

I hope this is not offensive - it is just the matter as it is seen from where I sit - and I am sorry but from time to time - I feel the need to speak of it.

Should anyone find this post offensive please send me a PM and I will delete it -

[WarriorAngel]

Thanks A_ntv.

Interesting...I didnt know. :thumbsup:
We share a post shcism Saint with the EO and the Anglicans. ;)

ALthough, X, I know you do not venerate St Francis officially, but many EO revere him privately.

Interesting to consider.

[a_ntv]

Not all conversions of Orthodox were peaceful and not all Orthodox that united to Rome became either Roman Catholics or Byzantine Catholics by the virtue of peace and love - indeed many were converted under the pain of death - (i.e. conversion of Serbs during existence of fascist Roman Catholic State of Croatia 1941-1945) - but, it seems that it is not politically correct to mention this - especially since the former pope JPII declared for a saint a man that was one of the principal characters in slaughter of Serbs during WWII - Cardinal Stepinac. This is why JPII was never allowed to come to Serbia. But, who cares anyhow, Serbs are enemies who need to be bombed and their land needs to be given to the Moslems - with friends like Western Christians some Orthodox really need no other enemies...As far as occurrences of Orthodox saints being recognised by the Rome - some on the East (including me) see it a a political strategy that Rome uses to make easier for Orthodox to convert under Rome - and find nothing but evil in such cases - we see it as a pretense - I came from Bosnia and know for a fact that only some Byzantine Catholics - former Serbian Orthodox - consider St. Sava for a saint in a true sense of the word - Roman Catholic Croats were burning Orthodox Churches dedicated to this saint in times of Ante Pavelic in 1941-1945 and Franjo Tudjman in 1991-1995.

The reason I am saying this - as conflictive as it is - is so that all of us understand that any attempt by Rome and Roman Catholics to present situation between East and West as better than it truly is - and present it as that we Orthodox should re-unite with Latins and are not doing it because we are stubborn and because we remember things that happened thousands years ago - is really not the fact - my mother remember her fathers head being cut off because he was a priest and did not want to convert to Roman Catholicism in 1944 - while my grandma in order to save her children - and indeed me (by saving my mother when she was a little girl) - converted. They (my grandmother and my mother) were Roman Catholic until 1945 when they returned to Orthodoxy with the whole of the family - the 12 out of 68 of those who were left alive.

It is a constant - never ending and never ceasing river of presentations from Rome (even on these forums) that state how the reasons for our separation are really just little long forgotten things that matter not - "here, we even have the same saints - why not re-unite?"


Well, on the other side I have friends of my family who escaped from their home in Istria after WWII.
And the subway of Milan is full of Bosniac muslim beggars without legs due to the Serbian (Orthodox) mines.

We shall not confuse here the ethics with the religion: the fights of this century in the former Jugoslavia are due to ethnic disagreement, and the own religion was used by ALL the parties to cover the already exisiting disagreements.
So it was not a Catholics vs Orthodox, but a Croatian vs Serbs, as well as it was not a Orthodox vs Muslims but a Serbs vs Bosniacs.

And anyway the church is made of men, the Croatian Church was made of Croatians....as well as the Serb Church is made of Serbs.
I dont judge the Orthodox religion for the geonocide of Bosniacs or of Kossovians. If the Serbians would have been Catholics, they would have acted in the same way, and the Croatians, acted in the same way vs the Serbians when they could.

What we can do?
We shall not say: we are sinless, but we shall always ask forgivness and forgive the brothers.

Also, please take in mind that the Vatican is not at all so powerfull to control what a particular church does. Not at all. Each Catholic population does, in politic and not only in politic, what it prefers. Nor even it Italy the church succeded to control the catholics in politic :)

About the last point of your post, please consider that JPII knew very well the East Europe.
JPII knew perfectly that it is imposible to reach a unity with the Orthodoxy up to now.
Actually JPII took many decisions in favour of the ECs that were seen as an obstacle to the EO-CC relationships...and even if he loved a lot the Orthodox world, he was not loved by the Orthodox.
To call St Sava 'saint' was not a tactic....(a tactic in not made of only one point) ..it was simply due to the fact that St Sava is a saint due to veneration. That is all. (St Sergius was canonized in the CC in the XV century....so for sure it ws not JPII tactic)

Looking at this thead we can have two opposite feelings:
- happiness because what units us is more of what divides us, even if what divide us is not a crumb
- sadness, because MY saints are only MY and I get upset when the other venerate MY saints.

It is up to us.

[xristos.anesti]

Well, on the other side I have friends of my family who escaped from their home in Istria after WWII.
And the subway of Milan is full of Bosniac muslim beggars without legs due to the Serbian (Orthodox) mines.

We shall not confuse here the ethics with the religion: the fights of this century in the former Jugoslavia are due to ethnic disagreement, and the own religion was used by ALL the parties to cover the already exisiting disagreements.
So it was not a Catholics vs Orthodox, but a Croatian vs Serbs, as well as it was not a Orthodox vs Muslims but a Serbs vs Bosniacs.

And anyway the church is made of men, the Croatian Church was made of Croatians....as well as the Serb Church is made of Serbs.
I dont judge the Orthodox religion for the geonocide of Bosniacs or of Kossovians. If the Serbians would have been Catholics, they would have acted in the same way, and the Croatians, acted in the same way vs the Serbians when they could.

What we can do?
We shall not say: we are sinless, but we shall always ask forgivness and forgive the brothers.

Also, please take in mind that the Vatican is not at all so powerfull to control what a particular church does. Not at all. Each Catholic population does, in politic and not only in politic, what it prefers. Nor even it Italy the church succeded to control the catholics in politic :)

About the last point of your post, please consider that JPII knew very well the East Europe.
JPII knew perfectly that it is imposible to reach a unity with the Orthodoxy up to now.
Actually JPII took many decisions in favour of the ECs that were seen as an obstacle to the EO-CC relationships...and even if he loved a lot the Orthodox world, he was not loved by the Orthodox.
To call St Sava 'saint' was not a tactic....(a tactic in not made of only one point) ..it was simply due to the fact that St Sava is a saint due to veneration. That is all. (St Sergius was canonized in the CC in the XV century....so for sure it ws not JPII tactic)

Looking at this thead we can have two opposite feelings:
- happiness because what units us is more of what divides us, even if what divide us is not a crumb
- sadness, because MY saints are only MY and I get upset when the other venerate MY saints.

It is up to us.

Many years.

Stepinac was a Roman Catholic Cardinal - ROMAN CATHOLIC CARDINAL - made a saint by your pope - so, please do not tell me that Rome has no control over things - this happened in 1996 (Canonisation).

Maybe in the 1940ties Rome did not control much, but in 1996 when good old Polish (an Eastern Slav hating nation to say the least) pope canonised another Western Slav (a Croat - another Eastern Slav hating nation) into whatever lever of blessedness he was given – ROME DID CONTROL and controlled everything.

As far as war in Yugoslavia is concerned – are you sure you wish to talk about it – maybe CNN was a way to see that war – I did not have a luxury of CNN – I kinda saw it – in your face - so to speak. All those beggars that you speak of Milan were there 20 years before the war – maybe you do not remember Milan of 1980ies – but same beggars you are speaking of were there in those days too.

Orthodox Serbs did not have a Nazi state that killed 1.2 million of Croats – burned their Churches and had a second biggest concentration camp in Europe in which they killed Croats, Jews and Gypsies – we did not. However Roman Catholic Croats had – It is called Independent state of Croatia with Jasenovac – read about it. And the Cardinal of this puppet state – Stepinac was blessed by the Roman pope in 1996 and made – whatever.

Please, tell us more about beggars of Milan.

[EmperorConstantine]

Don't forget that all but maybe one of the Orthodox bishops in former Yugoslavia were killed or imprisoned. Either way in this case it was the same thing.

(I read this from a book by Bishop Kallistos Ware. I'll pull up the source in a little bit)

[a_ntv]

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[EmperorConstantine]

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[jckstraw72]

i find it at least a bit odd that non-Orthodox would venerate our saint.

[Mary of Bethany]

I guess I'm just not getting this whole "our saint" thing. :scratch:

Mary

[Sothron]

I think its wonderful we share this saint as he deserves to be venerated by all Christians. I wish we had more that we shared.

I am not discussing the political aspect of the Serbian situation because frankly it deserves its own thread. I will say I am ashamed that we as Americans attacked a Christian nation but that entire situation is so full of centuries old ethnic hate.

[jckstraw72]

i guess i just find it weird that he would have a day on the calendar outside the Orthodox Church, whereas we have only Orthodox saints on our calendar. its a good thing though that they recognize his holiness.