am i lost???

[bigJerm]

maybe somebody can help me out.....ive recently recommitted my life to the Lord as of a year ago.....i was or thought i was a christian or at least knew the gospel from around age 13 until 16 and i ended up getting on drugs and falling completely away into complete sin and rebellion.....satanic tattoos....all sorts of drugs and sin...and i chased my flesh for 2 decades......im always getting hung up on hebrews 6:4-6r in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8)

i mean i apostasized in the worst way and have lived the most sinful life i could.........am i just repenting and professing Jesus in vain???....am i lost and dont know it??????

[TrustingmyLord]

I looked up that passage and I must say, it frightened me! If you are still lost, then many of us are! (I fell alway for many years as well.)

But no. I do not believe so. We must not just take those verses alone and make this assumption. Lets look elsewhere in the Bible.

I am looking for a verse and having trouble finding it. I KNOW its there. I have it highlighted in a certain Bible, but that one is in the truck and its raining outside...
Its in the new testament. It talks about how a person will be greatly blessed if they can help someone come back to God.

Then look at Peter. He denied Christ!
Thomas doubted, they were both forgiven.

Best one to look at is Saul/Paul. He has been a servant of God for practically his whole life. Very devout. Then this Jesus comes along and Paul feels he is right in KILLING all of these believers. He slaughtered people, Christians! As he said, of sinners, I am the worst of all. Yet he was forgiven and used greatly by God.

God forgives you and me, just like he did Paul. He is a gracious and merciful God abounding in grace. He has wiped the slate clean for us. He really has!

[hizlamb]

I looked up that passage and I must say, it frightened me! If you are still lost, then many of us are! (I fell alway for many years as well.)

Ditto on that one! It sure makes one think..but that can be a profitable thing

Amen to the rest of yer post

God bless you

[Trying2BaFaithfulServant]

Luke 15... the whole chapter, but particularly 11-32.

As much as I respect Paul, I believe Jesus' words above his. :)

[twistedsketch]

You want to come back, so I would say not.

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." - John 6:37

Welcome back. Stay with Him.

[PowderedGold]

Perhaps falling away is a permanent thing, spiritually speaking. You did a lot of sinning, but since you have returned to the faith, then you were never truly fallen away. Perhaps Paul is speaking about people who have fallen away and will never return. Perhaps.

[TrustingmyLord]

Just a side note here... but I believe the writer of Hebrews is unknown. I do not believe it was Paul.

[Trying2BaFaithfulServant]

Just a side note here... but I believe the writer of Hebrews is unknown. I do not believe it was Paul.
My Bible starts the book with "The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Hebrews"

[PowderedGold]

I have a lot of difficulty with Paul. It seems to me like Saul never quite lightened up.

[twistedsketch]

I have a lot of difficulty with Paul. It seems to me like Saul never quite lightened up.
I'd say going from torturing and killing people to outright pacifism is quite a lightening up.

[TrustingmyLord]

My Bible starts the book with "The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Hebrews"


Yes, I have seen this, but google it, you will see, it was never fully agreed upon. In most all of Pauls other writings he identifies himself. This one is written in a style and phrasing that is very different from all of Pauls other writings. People have speculated, but no one knows for sure.

[Trying2BaFaithfulServant]

Yes, I have seen this, but google it, you will see, it was never fully agreed upon. In most all of Pauls other writings he identifies himself. This one is written in a style and phrasing that is very different from all of Pauls other writings. People have speculated, but no one knows for sure.

All right, I'll check it out. Thanks, Trusting.

[PowderedGold]

I'd say going from torturing and killing people to outright pacifism is quite a lightening up.

Touche.

[bigJerm]

ahhhh the the lost sheep parable....and this verse tooAnd Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible..... maybe it means its impossible to bring them to repentance apart from an act of God............the bible...afflicts the comfortable...and comforts the afflicted.......wed be lost without it

[bigJerm]

Paul would seem to be the author since he talks about timothy in jail at the end of the book......who else could it have been???

[TrustingmyLord]

Well, you have a point. I am not claiming I know who wrote Hebrews, just that I knew it wasnt certain.
I am pretty familliar with Pauls writings and somehow it just doesnt "sound" like Paul's writing. I should look up more about it and read it more.

Sorry to have taken this all off topic here. Didnt mean to.

I was thinking, David is a good one to look at. He screwed up ALOT, yet God always took him back. He was so far from perfect, yet he is called "a man after God's own heart."

[bigJerm]

yeah youre right about david....didnt he join up with the enemy philitines for like 8 years....and he was a man after Gods own heart.....its amazing God doesnt just incinerate the whole planet.......its like he entered and lived among the world of ignorant slugs to save them.....baffling

[TrustingmyLord]

Its amazing God doesnt just incinerate the whole planet.......its like he entered and lived among the world of ignorant slugs to save them.....baffling

It just goes to show how totally amazing he is. The patience, love, mercy. So much more than we goofy people have. When you think about it its pretty unbelievable.

[heymikey80]

maybe somebody can help me out.....ive recently recommitted my life to the Lord as of a year ago.....i was or thought i was a christian or at least knew the gospel from around age 13 until 16 and i ended up getting on drugs and falling completely away into complete sin and rebellion.....satanic tattoos....all sorts of drugs and sin...and i chased my flesh for 2 decades......im always getting hung up on hebrews 6:4-6r in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8)

i mean i apostasized in the worst way and have lived the most sinful life i could.........am i just repenting and professing Jesus in vain???....am i lost and dont know it??????
Can I help you leave your obsession with Hebrews 6? I would absolutely love to. But it's going to take a minor rethink on what Hebrews 6 is written about.

Hebrews 6 is not obsessed with individual salvation or how it works. Hebrews 6 is written to a little church that is under persecution. So start there. The Apostle (who is so Pauline it just hurts -- maybe Apollos?) is writing to a church. Don't miss that, it's important.

Hebrews 6 is practical. It's also concrete. The Apostle is talking about real people who've walked away from the church, the fellowship, the Spirit partnering with them.

But what's the Apostle focused on? He's focused on this church. He's telling this church not to pursue such people. He's telling them that their ministry is exhausted when it comes to these people. They have no other cards to play with these people.

Hence the "bring to repentance" is what the church is trying to bring out of these people.

Are they all ultimately and finally unsaved? No. He's not saying that -- though he may want the church to think that way, and it may be generally true about apostates. But instead the Apostle is emphasizing this church's ministry can't bring them back -- and shouldn't go pursuing them. Their apostasy has done damage to the Gospel of Christ's Crucifixion. The church can't chase them, and drag Christ through this twice.

Still, it's a good rule of thumb generally that apostates don't return. Praise our Father that you and I have come back! I'll be forever humbled by that -- it's His sacrifice that brought us back.

[TrustingmyLord]

Wow,heymikey80, thanks so much for sharing all that!

[jazzypooh]

maybe somebody can help me out.....ive recently recommitted my life to the Lord as of a year ago.....i was or thought i was a christian or at least knew the gospel from around age 13 until 16 and i ended up getting on drugs and falling completely away into complete sin and rebellion.....satanic tattoos....all sorts of drugs and sin...and i chased my flesh for 2 decades......im always getting hung up on hebrews 6:4-6r in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8)

i mean i apostasized in the worst way and have lived the most sinful life i could.........am i just repenting and professing Jesus in vain???....am i lost and dont know it??????
NO NO NO u r not!

that's referring to those who have turned reprobate

there's a difference between backsliding and turning reprobate. backsliding is the 1st step to get there, but just because you've done that doesn't mean there's absolutely no hope for you.

i'm sure all of us have backslided at some point even if just at heart.

[jazzypooh]

My Bible starts the book with "The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Hebrews"
what translation are you reading from?

from my studies, the actual author is unknown but it is believed to be Paul since he was familiar with Jewish customs and things like that... also, the style of the letter resembles his other letters. so they think its the same author, but no one knows for sure

[Trying2BaFaithfulServant]

what translation are you reading from?

from my studies, the actual author is unknown but it is believed to be Paul since he was familiar with Jewish customs and things like that... also, the style of the letter resembles his other letters. so they think its the same author, but no one knows for sure
KJV

[YoungJoonKim]

Is there any way of removing your tattoos :P

[MoNiCa4316]

I don't believe you are lost, because if you've recommitted your life to Christ, that was because the Holy Spirit was drawing you to Him! We cant' get to God without the Spirit. Repentance is never in vain :)
Also, remember the story of the prodigal son. God always takes us back, and if you reach out to Him, He would never draw away from you. It's by His grace that you came back, and by His grace you have been forgiven...don't listen to doubt! God loves you and is happy to have you back!

God bless!


monica

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

maybe somebody can help me out.....ive recently recommitted my life to the Lord as of a year ago.....i was or thought i was a christian or at least knew the gospel from around age 13 until 16 and i ended up getting on drugs and falling completely away into complete sin and rebellion.....satanic tattoos....all sorts of drugs and sin...and i chased my flesh for 2 decades......im always getting hung up on hebrews 6:4-6r in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8)

i mean i apostasized in the worst way and have lived the most sinful life i could.........am i just repenting and professing Jesus in vain???....am i lost and dont know it??????

i danced with Satan for over two decades and had the same problem reconciling those verses. tried a half dozen times to come back to Christ and it never worked, never "took"; i always ended up going back to the occult. But at this point I don't have the issue you have over those verses anymore. I guess I worked them through enough times and came to the conclusion they did not apply to me somehow. I wish I could remember how I did it but maybe I didn't do it, maybe it was one of those things that disappeared when the old stronghold was demolished, or maybe i just refuse to let myself think about it long enough to invoke its torment back on me.

Whatever the case may be if God can still accept me he can still accept you. I've done far worse if you want to compare "sins". Trust me.

p.s. what kind of satanic tattoos? I mean are they actually satanic or just cheesy pictures of Las Vegas style devil heads?

[bigJerm]

haha....pretty much cheezy devils......hr giger type garbage....

[artgaldayna]

Hebrews 6:4-6 is hypothetical. It is impossible for those who have tasted in the heavenly gift to fall away, but he says if they could, it would be impossible for them to come back. I remember misunderstanding this one as well before. But there are verses:Romans 8:38-39 and Mark 10:27
Though Hebrews 6:7-8 talks about the thorns and thistles leading to death, they can be removed. Matthew 13:22 This person who has fallen into deceit and worry and sin is in danger of being cursed, but if he turns from those things and asks God to wash him clean, he will not be in danger any more. It is not too late until death.

as a side note: there was some previous expressed mistrust of Paul's credibility as a writer. God inspired the Bible and used Paul as we would use a pen to write a book. Saying there is flaw in Hebrews would be accusing God there is flaw in His word.

[bigJerm]

yes im gonna go with..let God be true and every man a liar

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

haha....pretty much cheezy devils......hr giger type garbage....
hey if its hr giger style it is NOT cheesy. .... i like his work. very visceral and industrial. i know ppl have tattooed goetic sigils on themselves too, that's what i was wondering, if you like inked your servitors' bonds on you or anything. ;)

[bigJerm]

no way ...never got into acual satanism....just lived like a heathen pirate on steroids.....praise the Lord not anymore

[bigJerm]

hows this verse??....david thought he was condemned....22 For I said in my haste, I am cut off from before thine eyes: nevertheless thou heardest the voice of my supplications when I cried unto thee. psalm 31:22-2323 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

i think there is a psalm like 50 or 51 or something that is david plea after he sinned, it might be helpful for you reading that, "take not thy holy spirit from me" is in there somewhere too

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

no way ...never got into acual satanism....just lived like a heathen pirate on steroids.....praise the Lord not anymore
continue to draw strength from contrast if you will. i was a practicing satanist (self-styled theistic satanist, not laveyan), ceremonial magickian, diabolist, etc. for over 20 years and i still have not been able to break away; they have me for keeps i think. so your case cannot be so bad right? :)

[bigJerm]

i believe its all a choice.......And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

i still have good days and bad days.....but the battle is already won.....we just have to take hold of it by FAITH

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

i have no choice ... but i don't expect you to grasp that. most can't. (and they have no choice about THAT it seems)

[bigJerm]

yeah its hard to communicate well over a bulletin.......but your still alive so there has to be hope!

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

good answer. those who push it after a statement like i made above don't get to come any closer ... EVER.

there's hope for you though. IF such a thing interests you. if not, no hard feelings.

[bigJerm]

man it seems like i still get in this state of feeling lost...condemnation from the past creeps back in......i know i believed as a youth..and then denied Christ and turned apostate for many years and did reprehensible things.........ive since repented but difficult passages like 1John 5:16 about sin leading to death.....many pastors believe that once apostate you are lost.......so am I lost?

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Jerm. Do you WANT to be lost?

(no indictment implied there, but the question IS important)

[bigJerm]

of course not!!!!!!

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

then trust me, you aren't.

only when that changes are you in danger of it.

trust me. i know. and you really don't want to know how i know, either.

[bigJerm]

this site has become pretty useless since renaming itself......is anybody even here?

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

apparently not, if I'm "nobody" now.... LOL.

Seriously I think they are all just hanging out at other areas on the board besides this one. This one is kinda dead.

[bigJerm]

no youre somebody....i didnt mean it like that.........doesnt it seem like its gotten all flat?