The problem I have with the latest announcement

[nyj]

EDIT: It was pointed out to me that this announcement seemed to be focussing on conservatives - I actually posted "some conservatives", not all - in fact, conservatives are welcome here as they provide a much-needed balance against the liberal Christian members of the site - we are serious about our vision to bring ALL Christians together, both conservatives and liberals.

A "much-needed balance against". It seems as if things continue to be seen as a struggle, a fight, an opposition. Liberal v. Conservative, Protestant v. Catholic.

This is why CF is always in an uproar, it is why the wiki's are a mess and the arguments are rampant.

I won't ask Erwin to reconsider his vision, I ask him to reconsider the environment he's fostering through his choice of words.

[MariaRegina]

I agree.

I just read the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels for an American Literature class I was taking, and these two communists said basically the same thing, that mankind is in a constant struggle.

However, belief in dualism is not what Christianity is all about.

[GreenMunchkin]

Was just about to start a thread :)

My reasons are altogether more banal.


It's also the straw the broke the proverbial's for another 7 - that I've seen - member's tenure here.

So, really, are we gonna be receiving posts like that from the upper-staffers and owner until we're all gone?

You needn't bother asking him anything, nyj. If he gets his wish, it'll be only liberals left, and there'll be no conservative/lib divide to encourage anymore :)

But don't forget, we are all to feel welcome.

"Your boot missed my kidney, Erwin. Have another go."

[Hishandmaiden]

I think conservatives are too important a part of the Body of Christ to leave CF.

[Letalis]

I think conservatives are too important a part of the Body of Christ to leave CF.
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy0062.gif

[Criada]

I think conservatives are too important a part of the Body of Christ to leave CF.
Agreed.
But am beginning to feel very unwelcome! :(

[Jim47]

Conservaives will always be looked down upon by liberals and visa versa. I don't see that as anything new, although it is very disappointing that Erwin would state that. The fact remains, we are faithful believers and have a mission to fulfill, and that is to witness to God's trust as He presented it in scripture. :preach:

[catofhope]

I think conservatives are too important a part of the Body of Christ to leave CF.
I'd rep that if you had yours turned on. :thumbsup:

[EternallyPierced]

Conservaives will always be looked down upon by liberals and visa versa. I don't see that as anything new, although it is very disappointing that Erwin would state that. The fact remains, we are faithful believers and have a mission to fulfill, and that is to witness to God's trust as He presented it in scripture. :preach:
Amen to that. We can't forget our true purpose in the midst off al this hogwash.

[Hishandmaiden]

If we are out, the liberals can do whatever they want with the board. Which is why they want to drive us out.
Then, before long, the bible cannot even be quoted as a line for debate.

[talitha]

GreenMunchkin, please don't go! PLEEEEASE!!

I firmly believe that this conservative forum - if it continues to shine brighter and brighter - will greatly effect the tone and quality of CF as a whole.

blessings
tal

[CyberPaladin]

It's only a matter of time before this subforum like all the others go downhill and the liberal Christian along with the nonbelievers force us to leave entirely.

[talitha]

O ye of little faith.

[CyberPaladin]

O ye of little faith.
Well I have little faith in mankind.
Besides it's just a message board and whether it suceeds or fails Christianity even on the web in the form of message boards well continue so while I do believe an end to to traditional Christian beliefs being welcomed here is likely occur it doesn't concern me much.

[Rep Daddy]

Conservaives will always be looked down upon by liberals and visa versa. I don't see that as anything new, although it is very disappointing that Erwin would state that. The fact remains, we are faithful believers and have a mission to fulfill, and that is to witness to God's trust as He presented it in scripture. :preach:

Just take Christ out of the title declare this a god-talk site and then it would be labeled correctly. As it is becoming the sign on the building doesn't match the events inside (a Spiritual Springer Show).

[talitha]

SteveJ, why are you here?

[Rep Daddy]

I am a conservative Christian and this is the Conservative Christian Forum.

[talitha]

Do you have to be so antagonistic?

[SunMessenger]

A "much-needed balance against". It seems as if things continue to be seen as a struggle, a fight, an opposition. Liberal v. Conservative, Protestant v. Catholic.

This is why CF is always in an uproar, it is why the wiki's are a mess and the arguments are rampant.

I won't ask Erwin to reconsider his vision, I ask him to reconsider the environment he's fostering through his choice of words.

That is quite true. Quite true. Something just does not seem right. Why have public relations people if you do not use them for things like this? I do not get it. Those words seem to illustrate that a battle line has been drawn by him. Unification is no where in the definition of against.

[SunMessenger]

I am a conservative Christian and this is the Conservative Christian Forum.
I am glad to meet you. :)

In this closet of the forum I think it may be important for us to get along as much as possible since we are some how being cast aside as it is.

I feel like I just gave a speech in a prison infirmary for some reason. I just don't get it. :help: :sigh:

[Criada]

I am glad to meet you. :)

In this closet of the forum I think it may be important for us to get along as much as possible since we are some how being cast aside as it is.

I feel like I just gave a speech in a prison infirmary for some reason. I just don't get it. :help: :sigh:
:hug:

But God will never cast us aside, bro!
Hold on, and He will sort all this out somehow!!

[SunMessenger]

:hug:

But God will never cast us aside, bro!
Hold on, and He will sort all this out somehow!!
Thank You and you are one hundred percent correct. One Hundred Percent. Thank You !

[nyj]

When I think conservative, I think traditional.

1 Corinthians 11:2 - I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 - So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

God is immutable ...

Malachi 3:6 - For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalm 102:27 - But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

... and such, since the Bible is His work, His message to us does not change either. Liberals would have you believe that His Church is outdated, and has wrongly interpreted His words for two thousand years. I for one, will not buy that bridge.

To boil it down: Conservatism is letting God place His desires onto us, not us placing our desires onto Him.

[SunMessenger]

Just take Christ out of the title declare this a god-talk site and then it would be labeled correctly. As it is becoming the sign on the building doesn't match the events inside (a Spiritual Springer Show).
I understand what you mean for the most part. Quite frankly I have felt like a pawn in a giant computer game created by a bunch of computer people elsewhere.

I do wish the Cross could be returned to the title bar. The current banner is quite nice but we need the Cross more than ever before...

[SunMessenger]

When I think conservative, I think traditional.

1 Corinthians 11:2 - I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 - So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

God is immutable ...

Malachi 3:6 - For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalm 102:27 - But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

... and such, since the Bible is His work, His message to us does not change either. Liberals would have you believe that His Church is outdated, and has wrongly interpreted His words for two thousand years. I for one, will not buy that bridge.

To boil it down: Conservatism is letting God place His desires onto us, not us placing our desires onto Him.

Amen

[Rep Daddy]

I understand what you mean for the most part. Quite frankly I have felt like a pawn in a giant Nintendo game created by a bunch of computer people elsewhere.


Interesting, I have thought that too.

Game premise: Balance Conservative vs. Liberal; Protestant vs. Catholic, etc. into the perfect dynamic tension. Avoid letting any side get too strong to lose the balance.

Levels:
First Level -- Alpha Phase: staff control the parameters in seeking to preserve the balance.
Second Level -- WIKI Phase: members control the parameters in seeking to preserve the balance.Hint:

To win you must remove the players with convictions they will not compromise or secure them in "Safe Houses" in order to maintain equilibrium. Ergo, the latest Announcement by the Head Programmer.

just a thought....

[SunMessenger]

Interesting, I have thought that too.

Game premise: Balance Conservative vs. Liberal; Protestant vs. Catholic, etc. into the perfect dynamic tension. Avoid letting any side get too strong to lose the balance.

Levels:
First Level -- Alpha Phase: staff control the parameters in seeking to preserve the balance.
Second Level -- WIKI Phase: members control the parameters in seeking to preserve the balance.Hint:

To win you must remove the players with convictions they will not compromise or secure them in "Safe Houses" in order to maintain equilibrium. Ergo, the latest Announcement by the Head Programmer.

just a thought....
Well you know Steve it sure looks that way. I thought I was the only one with that impression. Interesting ...

[CyberPaladin]

I understand what you mean for the most part. Quite frankly I have felt like a pawn in a giant Nintendo game created by a bunch of computer people elsewhere.



It doesn't remind any game I have ever heard of produced by Nintendo however it does remind of pretty much every PC strategy game I have ever played. Watch as there numbers grow they will take over this forum one board at a time.

[talitha]

So which pill do we take, the red or the blue?

[Criada]

So which pill do we take, the red or the blue?
Both! :(

[Letalis]

It doesn't remind any game I have ever heard of produced by Nintendo however it does remind of pretty much every PC strategy game I have ever played. Watch as there numbers grow they will take over this forum one board at a time.
Real-time strategy!

[SunMessenger]

It doesn't remind any game I have ever heard of produced by Nintendo however it does remind of pretty much every PC strategy game I have ever played. Watch as there numbers grow they will take over this forum one board at a time.
I tend to agree. I did not mean to use the name brand of a company I will edit that . I just dated myself in doing that I think.

Anyway you are right and I agree .

[suzybeezy]

I made a discussion thread about the announcement here - http://www.christianforums.com/t5729...e-enemies.html (http://www.christianforums.com/t5729920-christians-can-be-our-worse-enemies.html)

[CyberPaladin]

So which pill do we take, the red or the blue?
That all depends Alice do you want to go down the rabbit hole?;)

Letalis you're a gamer too?

[GreenMunchkin]

So I take it there hasn't been a retraction or anything?

Wow, so we really are being beaten from the side and from above.

[Rep Daddy]

Awesome post my Newman99 (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36864991&postcount=51)
drstevej

[MariaRegina]

Yes, Newman99 makes his point about the supposedly wiki-utopia that is turning into anarchy as the rules get continually rewritten and where the last poster only rules until a new poster comes along.

As a candidate for the Masters in Linguistics, I don't have time to edit wikis. I do have a life to live outside of cyberspace.

[nyj]

It's an excellent synopsis of the situation.

[Rep Daddy]

Erwin replied and locked the thread. He never interacted with the analysis Bob gave. I hope he will when he has time (he was at work when he posted).

Steve

[Erwin]

I've removed my announcement as it was being misinterpreted - I guess I worded it wrong and shouldn't have put the word conservative in there.

It was aimed at really a handful of posters (I can name 3) who have been basically doing what cannot be called anything else except trolling with sarcastic posts, name-calling, and generally sowing discord in multiple forums. I had hoped that my general announcement would have helped to reduce this, and I think it did. In any case, I apologise for any offence caused to conservatives as that is unintentional.

[Erwin]

Erwin replied and locked the thread. He never interacted with the analysis Bob gave. I hope he will when he has time (he was at work when he posted).

Steve

Bob already PMed me his thoughts - and I did consider them, and was about to implement some changes, if not for some ridiculous actions by some posters who basically showed me that I cannot react to such immature actions. These posters know who they are.

[Rep Daddy]

Bob already PMed me his thoughts - and I did consider them, and was about to implement some changes, if not for some ridiculous actions by some posters who basically showed me that I cannot react to such immature actions. These posters know who they are.

EErwin,

I am honestly confused by this. It sounds like you had something else in mind and due to these people you reacted to them rather than what you intended.

I do not understand.

Steve

[MariaRegina]

Please, Erwin, discuss your thoughts.

It is a shame that a handful of posters can attempt to destroy a good site.

Please don't get angry at a few and destroy the good work of many.

If I were younger, I might spend more time here, but I'm 61 and don't need all the negativity that I currently see from both sides in the reports I have been reading here.

[Erwin]

I don't want to directly name people (although that would probably be an easier option).

I'm not saying that I'm totally in the right - I admit that I should have staged the changes a bit better and consulted a bit more prior to implementing the radical changes - I didn't anticipate the response - however, what is done is done, and I am hoping to move forward here.

The 3 most contentious issues so far are:

1. Letting non-Christians edit some of the Wikis.

2. Letting non-Christians be moderators.

3. Letting Christian "cults" have their own subforums.

I admit that they are contentious and these are the 3 areas that I am still considering. The rest of the issues should be okay, since I have no issue with the Nicene Creed being used in subforums.

The statement I made about "Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian" I admit I phrased wrongly and should have used a better choice of words - just because I say I am a Wookie doesn't make me a Wookie per se - in the end, I was trying to say that staff will no longer try to force an icon change on members, something that puts a lot of stress on both staff and members.

Believe me when I say that I take the things I do on this site seriously. Yes, and policies do change - just because I said something a year ago, doesn't mean I can't change my mind.

Anyway, I hope this clarifies things further.

[Rep Daddy]

Very helpful, thank you.
Steve

[MariaRegina]

Erwin --

Regarding the Icon changes

I think that OBOB is on the right track, that those who have the OBOB faith icon are grandfathered in but new members must have the endorsement of three members before considered to be a member of OBOB. In this way, some semblance of order will reign and not just anyone can have a faith icon and then change it on the spur of the moment just to participate in the election of another faith forum. It inspires accountability.

[GreenMunchkin]

I don't want to directly name people (although that would probably be an easier option).

I'm not saying that I'm totally in the right - I admit that I should have staged the changes a bit better and consulted a bit more prior to implementing the radical changes - I didn't anticipate the response - however, what is done is done, and I am hoping to move forward here.

The 3 most contentious issues so far are:

1. Letting non-Christians edit some of the Wikis.

2. Letting non-Christians be moderators.

3. Letting Christian "cults" have their own subforums.

I admit that they are contentious and these are the 3 areas that I am still considering. The rest of the issues should be okay, since I have no issue with the Nicene Creed being used in subforums.

The statement I made about "Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian" I admit I phrased wrongly and should have used a better choice of words - just because I say I am a Wookie doesn't make me a Wookie per se - in the end, I was trying to say that staff will no longer try to force an icon change on members, something that puts a lot of stress on both staff and members.

Believe me when I say that I take the things I do on this site seriously. Yes, and policies do change - just because I said something a year ago, doesn't mean I can't change my mind.

Anyway, I hope this clarifies things further.But, Erwin, the fact remains that fora-wide, conservative Christians are being called awful names, and your announcement gave people the sense that they're entitled to do so because to all intents and purposes, you agree.

I get that wasn't your intention, but that's one of the consequences. So will there be a further announcement retracting it so people *don't* feel we're legal targets?

[Erwin]

Erwin --

Regarding the Icon changes

I think that OBOB is on the right track, that those who have the OBOB faith icon are grandfathered in but new members must have the endorsement of three members before considered to be a member of OBOB. In this way, some semblance of order will reign and not just anyone can have a faith icon and then change it on the spur of the moment just to participate in the election of another faith forum. It inspires accountability.
That's fine and other congregational forums can implement this too if they want.

[Letalis]

Let me know about this last one:

"3. Letting Christian "cults" have their own subforums."

[Erwin]

But, Erwin, the fact remains that fora-wide, conservative Christians are being called awful names, and your announcement gave people the sense that they're entitled to do so because to all intents and purposes, you agree.

I get that wasn't your intention, but that's one of the consequences. So will there be a further announcement retracting it so people *don't* feel we're legal targets?
I get the sense that every announcement I make can be easily misunderstood and every word I say analysed and used against me. :) So I am now a bit scared of making announcements about these issues. I'll think about it.

[MariaRegina]

Yes, unfortunately, CF is becoming very legalistic.

Every word we print, can and will be used against us.

So words are twisted totally out of context, this in spite of the Lord's injunction: Judge not lest ye yourselves be judged.

Lord have mercy on us all.

[GreenMunchkin]

I get the sense that every announcement I make can be easily misunderstood and every word I say analysed and used against me. :) So I am now a bit scared of making announcements about these issues. I'll think about it.You may be right. Things are beyond chaotic, so people are looking to you for leadership and stability. It must suck.

But, equally, so far the perception is that to upper staff and to you, we are very much the undesirables, so that probably means announcements are scrutinized more than they otherwise would be, by both "sides".

It's badness, with a layer of crap on that and a final layer of ick on top. Stripping some of that back would probably go a long way to alleviating some of the tension, and people knowing it's not open season on conservatives would be a good start... at least if it's a level playing field dialogue can start, but as things stand, that's nigh on impossible as, rightly or wrongly, people who hate conservative Christians now feel vindicated, and that "Well, Erwin thinks so, so it's definitely true."

This also sucks.

[SunMessenger]

I get the sense that every announcement I make can be easily misunderstood and every word I say analysed and used against me. :) So I am now a bit scared of making announcements about these issues. I'll think about it.
We do read those closely as they are the only source of what is really going on here. No question. Am I being knit picky about some wording ? Perhaps. I do understand how busy things are and how some words can be misused or misinterpreted.

You have done a great job here at CF for God. In doing so You have aided countless Christians. For that I thank you. Your admission of not thinking through the reaction is understood but that is what mistakes are for to learn from and not repeat. Wow that just made you human like everyone else and rightly so.

I prayed tonight over dinner for guidance in this matter and it came to my heart that it is not time yet . More lessons must be learned by all here. I believe I understand that message.

Mister it is your place. You do what you want with it. That is how it should be but you must also expect reactions and discussion. They are not against you as a Christan as far as I know they are merely policy related and no more than that. I agree it surely would have been much better to move slower and in turn give everyone time to adjust.

So what is next ? I do not know. I know I must speak my mind within the rules of course and do that with a good heart regardless of our human emotions.

Lets see what happens but I do hope that you keep that fluid attitude with regard to change.

God Bless ...

Sun

[SunMessenger]

Erwin...

I was calming down a bit until I read another thread on this situation. Every time you lock threads after posting a comment that only serves to stir people up more. Let them speak and as long as what they say in within the rules it fits right in with this open air environment. That is not a good way to help calm people by locking the thread so those who agree with you or disagree with you can not have their say...

[CaDan]

Actually, I think things are not that bad. Much better than I had feared. Of course, people are calling me a cult leader and such in PMs, but I'm sort of used to that.

[meh]

Actually, I think things are not that bad. Much better than I had feared. Of course, people are calling me a cult leader and such in PMs, but I'm sort of used to that.

You mean you aren't one? That's disappointing:( ;)


Erwin, thank you for taking time to talk with us :)

[catofhope]

Erwin, thank you for taking time to talk with us :)

Yes, Erwin, thank you for sharing with us your thoughts.

Praying for you as you listen to God in these matters. :prayer:

[GreenMunchkin]

Actually, I think things are not that bad. Much better than I had feared. Of course, people are calling me a cult leader and such in PMs, but I'm sort of used to that.Come back when you're being called a Pharisees, a tool of the devil, unloving and unChristian :)

[CaDan]

Come back when you're being called a Pharisees, a tool of the devil, unloving and unChristian :)

Is false teacher, heretic, and apostate enough? :D

I think tool of the devil is an equal opportunity insult, though. I've gotten pawn (misspelled as prawn) of Satan for sure.

[SunMessenger]

Come back when you're being called a Pharisees, a tool of the devil, unloving and unChristian :)
Well you know that is the old sticks and stones theory of flaming. It should be ignored or deleted by those on staff. That is why these threads get closed sometimes too. How can we ever expect anyone to listen when discussing a situation when people resort to those tactics. Each post needs to be reported and deleted separately when that happens in order to keep the threads alive.

There has been way too much of that name calling nonsense .

[GreenMunchkin]

Is false teacher, heretic, and apostate enough? :D

I think tool of the devil is an equal opportunity insult, though. I've gotten pawn (misspelled as prawn) of Satan for sure.
What do Satanic prawns taste like?

[CaDan]

What do Satanic prawns taste like?

I dunno. I'm not into that cannibalism (prawnibilism?) thing. :D

As SM says, we should just stop calling people names and move on. I know I've called some people bad things and I am trying to make sure I don't do that anymore. It's not helpful.

[Rep Daddy]

I dunno. I'm not into that cannibalism (prawnibilism?) thing. :D

As SM says, we should just stop calling people names and move on. I know I've called some people bad things and I am trying to make sure I don't do that anymore. It's not helpful.

Can I have a :hug:?
Maybe we can have a combined ice cream social and invite our minions.
:cool:

[Grizzly]

Come back when you're being called a Pharisees, a tool of the devil, unloving and unChristian :)

Oh, I get called that kind of stuff regularly in GA and GP. Well, I don't get called a Pharisee, but a tool of the devil? Oh yea. Dead. Blind. A fool (with the appropriate Psalm citation). I've even heard the phrase spiritual pedophile tossed around (but not aimed directly at me).

Thick skin helps if you want to cut through the animosity and get to an understanding of each other :)

[Grizzly]

What do Satanic prawns taste like?

Hot and spicy. Eat lots of cornbread with it, you'll be fine.

[Grizzly]

My apologies! I just noticed I was posting in the conservative christians forum. With the walls so low these days, I didn't even notice. I'll cease and desist.

[GreenMunchkin]

Oh, I get called much worse things regularly in GA and GP. Well, I don't get called a Pharisee, but a tool of the devil? Oh yea. Dead. Blind. A fool (with the appropriate Psalm citation). I've even heard the phrase spiritual pedophile tossed around (but not aimed directly at me).

Thick skin helps if you want to cut through the animosity and get to an understanding of each other :)Well, without wanting to kick you in the shins, blind and fool are scriptural terms that have modern - mean - connotations. Their actual meaning when used shouldn't ever be said by way of an insult because in their original meaning, they are rebukes, yes, but not derogatory. Their being used to be mean isn't cool.

But, yah, your being called a tool of the devil is yucky... unless you're a prawn.

The spiritual paedophile is... it's extreme language, but its premise is eminently valid. But it would refer to someone with that intention, rather than everyone, I would have thought...? But those people do exist, and it'd be silly to ignore that.

We don't all have thick skins, though :) Which is ok. It just means some places become kinda hi-octane for some people. But, ya know. Moo. Etc.

[GreenMunchkin]

My apologies! I just noticed I was posting in the conservative christians forum. With the walls so low these days, I didn't even notice. I'll cease and desist.Don't be silly. You're welcome here.

[SunMessenger]

My apologies! I just noticed I was posting in the conservative christians forum. With the walls so low these days, I didn't even notice. I'll cease and desist.
Why?

Everyone is welcome here and that is how it should be. Any restrictions here are only to keep people in not out. Just kidding... Take care.

[Grizzly]

Don't be silly. You're welcome here.

Why?

Everyone is welcome here and that is how it should be. Any restrictions here are only to keep people in not out. Just kidding... Take care.

Thanks folks. I guess my reaction was from the old days. Before Erwin coded things so that atheists could not post in Christian Only sections, we just had to be on our watch not to cross the over the line.

Thanks for the welcome.

[meh]

My apologies! I just noticed I was posting in the conservative christians forum. With the walls so low these days, I didn't even notice. I'll cease and desist.
No! Don't go. I like you.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

I've removed my announcement as it was being misinterpreted - I guess I worded it wrong and shouldn't have put the word conservative in there.

It was aimed at really a handful of posters (I can name 3) who have been basically doing what cannot be called anything else except trolling with sarcastic posts, name-calling, and generally sowing discord in multiple forums. I had hoped that my general announcement would have helped to reduce this, and I think it did. In any case, I apologise for any offence caused to conservatives as that is unintentional.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here Erwin...and for clarifying what we may not have completely understood. I think it goes a long way for you to express this personally as you have here.

[meh]

*meh should read all new posts before responding ;)

[catofhope]

Thanks folks. I guess my reaction was from the old days. Before Erwin coded things so that atheists could not post in Christian Only sections, we just had to be on our watch not to cross the over the line.

Thanks for the welcome.
I think a grizzly hug is needed here. ;)

http://www.wildliferesearchinstitute.org/images/HWB_Slide41_FS.jpg

[SunMessenger]

Thanks folks. I guess my reaction was from the old days. Before Erwin coded things so that atheists could not post in Christian Only sections, we just had to be on our watch not to cross the over the line.

Thanks for the welcome.
That was a crazy rule . There were lots of crazy rules. Some surely needed changing so that is a benefit to be happy about.

Everyone should be welcome everywhere as long as they do not disrupt the place. Much like Churches should be also.

[GreenMunchkin]

Thanks folks. I guess my reaction was from the old days. Before Erwin coded things so that atheists could not post in Christian Only sections, we just had to be on our watch not to cross the over the line.

Thanks for the welcome.:hug: Us all being able to chatter about prawns is one of the *better* aspects of the changes :)

Tomorrow: salmon.

[P_G]

I get the sense that every announcement I make can be easily misunderstood and every word I say analysed and used against me. :) So I am now a bit scared of making announcements about these issues. I'll think about it.

It's not easy being in charge is it?


PG

[MariaRegina]

Leaders face difficult decisions and opposition, and must answer to God for every thought, word, and deed.

That is why we must pray for all our leaders, as we Orthodox Christians do at every Divine Liturgy.

[Ms.Garnet]

Awesome post my Newman99 (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36864991&postcount=51)
drstevej

Thanks Stevej for siting this post...I have appreciated this whole thread as I am just now seeing the situation that has caused the uproar. I am an occasional poster & am not dependent on a daily dose of CF, but have enjoyed the fellowship with those threads I do visit. I consider myself a Christian in that I believe Jesus did shed His blood willingly for the redemption of my sins...in that respect I do not want my posts supervised by professing non-believers..
"Do not be bound together with unbelievers: for what partnership have righteouness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor 6:14
That said, I AM NOT against unbelievers being on CF and posting, etc. , but in that this is named CHRISTIAN FORUMS I think professing believers should do the moderating, etc. (and, yes, I am aware that anyone can profess to be a Christian and still not be one...I just don't think professing non-believers should be in a position to moderate & make rules....anyway ...I don't mean to offend or open another "can of worms".

[Tonks]

I'm tempted to see if I can garner the required 20 votes to create Tonks' Forum under the Theology banner. :P

[Glass*Soul]

Can I have a hug too? :(

I've been up late every night working on the core rules wiki. Hearing from Erwin that he might be considering cutting the non-Christians out of that process is so discouraging. I don't want to debate the point here in a Congregational Forum; it doesn't feel quite right. But I hope its OK to peek in and say how it feels.

I keep tying to reach across the divide between myself and Christianity, but my hand keeps getting slapped. So, it gets harder and harder to keep trying. I don't know what more to do at this point.

[talitha]

Come 'ere! :hug:


btw, Jesus loves you! ;)

blessings
tal

[GreenMunchkin]

Can I have a hug too? :(

I've been up late every night working on the core rules wiki. Hearing from Erwin that he might be considering cutting the non-Christians out of that process is so discouraging. I don't want to debate the point here in a Congregational Forum; it doesn't feel quite right. But I hope its OK to peek in and say how it feels.

I keep tying to reach across the divide between myself and Christianity, but my hand keeps getting slapped. So, it gets harder and harder to keep trying. I don't know what more to do at this point.:hug: :hug: Well you're always welcome here :)

We have hot chocolate and hugs on tap :hug:

[Q]

Can I have a hug too? :(

I've been up late every night working on the core rules wiki. Hearing from Erwin that he might be considering cutting the non-Christians out of that process is so discouraging. I don't want to debate the point here in a Congregational Forum; it doesn't feel quite right. But I hope its OK to peek in and say how it feels.

I keep tying to reach across the divide between myself and Christianity, but my hand keeps getting slapped. So, it gets harder and harder to keep trying. I don't know what more to do at this point.


awww,would a non conservative hug be ok?
I am quite conservative in other things ...just no politics or religion.
:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

:wave:@LadyT and Aria -so this is where I can find you,I tried supporters,but no luck.


;) Grizzly...you marking you territory?

[Hishandmaiden]

Can I have a hug too? :(

I've been up late every night working on the core rules wiki. Hearing from Erwin that he might be considering cutting the non-Christians out of that process is so discouraging. I don't want to debate the point here in a Congregational Forum; it doesn't feel quite right. But I hope its OK to peek in and say how it feels.

I keep tying to reach across the divide between myself and Christianity, but my hand keeps getting slapped. So, it gets harder and harder to keep trying. I don't know what more to do at this point.
Hugs... don't feel unwelcomed here!
:)

[Hishandmaiden]

More hugs. :)

[Hishandmaiden]

I don't want to directly name people (although that would probably be an easier option).

I'm not saying that I'm totally in the right - I admit that I should have staged the changes a bit better and consulted a bit more prior to implementing the radical changes - I didn't anticipate the response - however, what is done is done, and I am hoping to move forward here.

The 3 most contentious issues so far are:

1. Letting non-Christians edit some of the Wikis.

2. Letting non-Christians be moderators.

3. Letting Christian "cults" have their own subforums.

I admit that they are contentious and these are the 3 areas that I am still considering. The rest of the issues should be okay, since I have no issue with the Nicene Creed being used in subforums.

The statement I made about "Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian" I admit I phrased wrongly and should have used a better choice of words - just because I say I am a Wookie doesn't make me a Wookie per se - in the end, I was trying to say that staff will no longer try to force an icon change on members, something that puts a lot of stress on both staff and members.

Believe me when I say that I take the things I do on this site seriously. Yes, and policies do change - just because I said something a year ago, doesn't mean I can't change my mind.

Anyway, I hope this clarifies things further.
Thanks, it does clarify things better.

[Hishandmaiden]

My apologies! I just noticed I was posting in the conservative christians forum. With the walls so low these days, I didn't even notice. I'll cease and desist.
Actually, we conservatives are not monsters that eat atheists, you know.
We just have some views that are different from the direction which the site is taking, that is all. :)

[Q]

I've removed my announcement as it was being misinterpreted - I guess I worded it wrong and shouldn't have put the word conservative in there.

I think it is a shame you removed it,perhaps exlaining it a bit better would be more helpful.
Your oinions and feelings are imortant to many members,and they seek you as the highest authority on this board.
YOU need not be ashamed of what you are doing,or let peole bully you to change your mind.



It was aimed at really a handful of posters (I can name 3) who have been basically doing what cannot be called anything else except trolling with sarcastic posts, name-calling, and generally sowing discord in multiple forums. I had hoped that my general announcement would have helped to reduce this, and I think it did. In any case, I apologise for any offence caused to conservatives as that is unintentional.

I tried to address this,when I noticed that 2 ex staff members,both pastors,are trying to buy,intimidate and are using subtle,and not so subtle sarcasm in their posts,also,several other ex staff members engaged in breaking staff protocol,and calling everyone who does not believe they way they do names,playing martyrs and victims at the same time.
Sadly,those are the poeple who caused many members to leave,by telling them lies,and spreading panick about atheists ,witches and cultists taking over the board.

Most conservative memebers I know,did understand your announcement,and did not take any offense,but rather shown their support for you.



Bob already PMed me his thoughts - and I did consider them, and was about to implement some changes, if not for some ridiculous actions by some posters who basically showed me that I cannot react to such immature actions. These posters know who they are.

Again,I am hoping you will not be intimidated,or bullied,by judgemental and selferving members.



I don't want to directly name people (although that would probably be an easier option).

I am sure it would help many members,who started to follow them,think about the whole issue,and instead of following a bunch of loud trolling 'martyrs',they would go back to the asics of their faith,and help CF in this time,where it really needs Christian love,unity,and ethos.



I'm not saying that I'm totally in the right - I admit that I should have staged the changes a bit better and consulted a bit more prior to implementing the radical changes - I didn't anticipate the response - however, what is done is done, and I am hoping to move forward here.


I was surprised by the speed of the changes,as I expected one thing at the time,but I see many positive changes,and as the faults are so clearly visible,they can be addressed directly.It looks like the members who want to take resoonsibility,are trying to work together,despite some arguments.
I hope you will let this change run it's course,and just tweak it as needed,rather than starting again,and again...


The 3 most contentious issues so far are:

1. Letting non-Christians edit some of the Wikis.


I think the issues affectingall the members,should be managed by all the members,with reminder,that the site
is Christian,and will remain Christian .As far I am aware,non christians do understand this,and do not have any problems with it.


2. Letting non-Christians be moderators.

This is definitely a step in the right direction,on aboard as diverse as this.

Anyway,even if you decide allow only christians to moderate,you will face problems as severe as a few loud
ones claim,becasue unfortunately,most conservative christians do not consider liberal christians being 'true' christians,and even on mostly conservative staff,they fight each other,on the bases of denomination.

Allowing a mixture of christians,and non christians on staff,is IMO a good thing,especialy as the members shown in their vote,personality is the most important
qualification.





3. Letting Christian "cults" have their own subforums.


Is it not better to know ones 'enemy',than ignore or deny they exist,and teach untrue statements about them?
Cults??
I think this is about Mormons,non trinitarian christians,
and who else?
Getting to know them,and their beliefs,will benefit anyone who takes the time,and even makes ones beliefs stronger.
Most of those member follow Jesus teachings in their lifestyle,and in they interaction with other members,and respect this is a CHristian board.



I admit that they are contentious and these are the 3 areas that I am still considering. The rest of the issues should be okay, since I have no issue with the Nicene Creed being used in subforums.


I just hope your decision will be based on your own search,prayers,and beliefs,rather than being a result of
bullying and intimidation.


The statement I made about "Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian" I admit I phrased wrongly and should have used a better choice of words - just because I say I am a Wookie doesn't make me a Wookie per se - in the end, I was trying to say that staff will no longer try to force an icon change on members, something that puts a lot of stress on both staff and members.

icons are not exactly reliable,it is good people will make their midn abot others,based on their behaviour ,rather than an icon

Believe me when I say that I take the things I do on this site seriously. Yes, and policies do change - just because I said something a year ago, doesn't mean I can't change my mind.

You have the right to change your mind,as you are a humna being,who learns,develops,evolves.
Keep strong!



But, Erwin, the fact remains that fora-wide, conservative Christians are being called awful names, and your announcement gave people the sense that they're entitled to do so because to all intents and purposes, you agree.

I get that wasn't your intention, but that's one of the consequences. So will there be a further announcement retracting it so people *don't* feel we're legal targets?

What about the names you call others.....???


I get the sense that every announcement I make can be easily misunderstood and every word I say analysed and used against me. :) So I am now a bit scared of making announcements about these issues. I'll think about it.

Most of the members understand the pressure you are under,and most of the members do respect you,and wish you would have time to interact more.

I pray you will have strenght you need to keep leading this forum.

[flaglady]

I've gotten pawn (misspelled as prawn) of Satan for sure.

Oh too too funny! And this one has a complex as well!

http://www-staff.it.uts.edu.au/%7Edon/big/prawn.jpg

[Grizzly]

Oh too too funny! And this one has a complex as well!

http://www-staff.it.uts.edu.au/%7Edon/big/prawn.jpg

Hey look - its a picture of headquarters!

[EternallyPierced]

For CF,

You know ya'll, I'm beginning to feel bad for Erwin. I really don't think he meant to start this wildfire. I'm tired of hearing all this degradation and abuse. We should start asking what we can do to help and stop trying to take out everyone's kneecaps (including Erwin's). Sitting here complaining about the moral decay of this is site is not doing anything to help it.

I think we need to re-implement some of the "old rules" or set out at least set some concrete (unwikifyable) rules at least until we can bring back some sense of order and plan things out a little better. Right now we are just running around in circles chasing our tales amidst rampant chaos.

For Erwin,

It's still your site Erwin, You can still do what you want with it. You act as if you have no power "what's done is done”. I don't see why? As long as you have a mouse in your hand and a keyboard at your fingertips, then you have the ability to change things. Like I've said before, I have faith in you, that's one reason why I'm still here. God gave you this ministry and He's going to see you through it as long as you listen to His voice and not just the crowd.

Who cares if you get a hundred pm's criticizing your decisions? They're not the ones your going to have to answer too. Who would you rather have opposing you? A million angry posters are nothing compared to one angry God. Who gave you this ministry to begin with? It's certainly wasn't us. There is only one opinion you need to be truly mindful of and I think you’re giving us way to much say in this.

Speaking for myself, I know that I would be much more content with decisions made on this site, whatever they might be, if I knew that your sole concern was to please God in the way this site was ran. You can't allow yourself to be swayed by groups, threats or anything else. Stand firm, if God is for you who can be against you?

You, this site and all that are in it, are in my prayers daily. You can do this Erwin. Have a little faith in yourself. Godspeed, my friend.

Praying for you,
EternallyPierced (Matt)

[SunMessenger]

You know ya'll, I'm beginning to feel bad for Erwin. I really don't think he meant to start this wildfire. I'm tired of hearing all this degradation and abuse. We should start asking what we can do to help and stop trying to take out everyone's kneecaps (including Erwin's). Sitting here complaining about the moral decay of this is site is not doing anything to help it.I must disagree on one important point. Voicing ones opinion is not "doing nothing" and Prayer is not "doing nothing" as the ultimate authority of this site and the universe still belongs to God .

Nice to see you...:)

Sun

[catofhope]

Can I have a hug too? :(

I've been up late every night working on the core rules wiki. Hearing from Erwin that he might be considering cutting the non-Christians out of that process is so discouraging. I don't want to debate the point here in a Congregational Forum; it doesn't feel quite right. But I hope its OK to peek in and say how it feels.

I keep tying to reach across the divide between myself and Christianity, but my hand keeps getting slapped. So, it gets harder and harder to keep trying. I don't know what more to do at this point.

Just saw this post.

:hug: :hug: Glass*Soul :hug: :hug:

[flaglady]

Anyone here read "Animal Farm"?

The reason I ask is because I see a lot of comparisons. All we've got here now is a pseudo democracy.

There are those trying honestly to bring Erwin's vision into being, working like crazy to develop the Wikis and others are also doing their level best to help in other ways. We have more applicants for mods now than ever.

Then we have the others who are doing their level best to shoot everything down in flames. This may either be by disagreeing, inserting scarlet fishes into the debates or moaning about what a mess it all it, all that sort of stuff.

And then there is the majority (by far the majority) who are wandering around in a haze of ignorant naivety, either unable to grasp what it is all about (and who can blame them? I might even be one of them!) or totally unaware that anything is going on anyway.

Sadly, at the moment the vocal minority are having their way and convincing everyone else that it's far worse a mess than it really is.

I don't care for the muddle. I don't/can't contribute to much of the debate because it's over my head but I notice that in many Wiki discussions it's only about 6-8 names are that involved. In 'my' patch (Spirit-filled) we had 93 people in the forum last light yet there only seem to be about half a dozen people engaged in the rules discussions and the polls that have spilled out of them.

So I ask myself - can this really be a democratic procedure? Barely 1% working on the rules!! Is this not exactly what we had before? The majority being 'ruled' by the minority? Land sakes, do we really think we're going to get more observance of the rules with this method?

I would point out that I had and still have hopes for the public reporting system. It is my belief that members will be a lot more supportive of staff when they see how the reports are worked and action decided upon. I also think we'll be surprised how they will be much more ready to take action than we would have been before, how they won't put up with the nonsense we so often have in the past. But I don't think it will be like that if the rules are decided by the minority that are working them out now. It will be, to those who misbehave, that they are being penalised by a minority decision and they won't be far wrong.

I suppose after my years in management and at my age, I'm more accustomed to an autocratic management style. I decided what the rules were and my staff had to abide by them! Not that I'm proposing that but one thing this exercise has shown me is that there are those amongst the members (and that includes all of us who are first members before we are staff) are pretty much incapable of behaving in a mature and adult fashion. Given the anonymity of our screen name and keyboard, we are not capable of restraining ourselves or - more importantly - our 'tongue' (keyboard!!). So what happens then to the third group who are unable or unwilling to voicde their opinions? In fact nothing - nothing has changed for them, the 99%, because they are being dictated to just as much as they were in the previous 'regime'.

Motto - no matter how much things change they always stay the same!!

[Criada]

I agree with most of what you say - and am guilty of not doing enough to put my point of view - I tend to back out when things get heated!

The thing is, though, I am not sure that democracy is in any way a Christian concept...
Or a workable one on a forum of this size!
Because, we just end up being governed by the most vocal - which is not a good thing! And when there is no stipulation that these must even be Christians, it seems an odd way of going about things.

God bless you, sister - you are one of the few left on staff who I feel able to trust and respect! Thank you for all you are doing.

[flaglady]

heehee ! I got called away half way though that and ended up thinking I was posting in the Conference Room. So if you wondered just who I thought I was addressing, now the truth be told - I thought I was talking to other staffers!!

Never the less, my comments still stand!!

[Macrina]

All I know is that I don't envy Erwin the task of trying to keep the peace around here. I think he's doing his best and needs our encouragement and prayers.

[Q]

Flaglady I share your concerns,I have mostly given up on the changes,and the process.
I think having diverse mods,transparency,and no constant punishments is definitely the right way to go.

But you are so right,saying most people don' t know whats going on,or are not sure how to contribute.

So far the general CF rules look Ok (last time I checked),staff issues are not developed yet , and there is too many untouchables sellected by Erwin,but I will wait and see how this goes.
I want to believe it will be a good thing...there are quite a few people deciding on things,I have no trust in,but maybe I am wrong about them.

[Q]

I was thinking of creating support thread for Erwin,but there is no place to post it.

I started a wiki about roles of Erwin and his staff,and suggested a subforum for questions /messages for ?Erwin and his staff .

I hope more people will support the idea.

[meh]

becasue unfortunately,the conservative christians do not consider liberal christians being 'true' christians,.

Hi Q,

Could you not use such a broad brush please? You don't know how I feel about anyone else's "Christian-ness". I'm in this forum because I was given a label by others and don't know where else to go. So there is plenty of labeling and finger-pointing and judging going on by lots of people on this site right now. It would be nice if we could get past that, though.

[praying]

This thread made me feel better. :)

[SunMessenger]

Hi Q,

Could you not use such a broad brush please? You don't know how I feel about anyone else's "Christian-ness". I'm in this forum because I was given a label by others and don't know where else to go. So there is plenty of labeling and finger-pointing and judging going on by lots of people on this site right now. It would be nice if we could get past that, though.
Yup! I agree.

[NewGuy101]

Hi Q,

Could you not use such a broad brush please? You don't know how I feel about anyone else's "Christian-ness". I'm in this forum because I was given a label by others and don't know where else to go. So there is plenty of labeling and finger-pointing and judging going on by lots of people on this site right now. It would be nice if we could get past that, though.
Well I'll be the first one to admit that I have yet to meet a liberal who I consider a real Christian. I think moderates slide, but definetely not liberals. They kill the essence of what being a Christian is.

[praying]

Oh too too funny! And this one has a complex as well!

http://www-staff.it.uts.edu.au/%7Edon/big/prawn.jpg


what was really really funny was the picture he posted in response to the comment. :D :D That was funny stuff.

[Grizzly]

Well I'll be the first one to admit that I have yet to meet a liberal who I consider a real Christian. I think moderates slide, but definetely not liberals. They kill the essence of what being a Christian is.

Well, maybe now that the walls are lower here at CF, you might run into one or two that will change your mind?

[NewGuy101]

Well, maybe now that the walls are lower here at CF, you might run into one or two that will change your mind?
I'm definitely opened to it, but the problem is that "christian liberalism" basically denies scripture and many of the essentials of the christian system. I guess they would have to be fake liberals.

[Grizzly]

Actually, we conservatives are not monsters that eat atheists, you know.
We just have some views that are different from the direction which the site is taking, that is all. :)


You have all been very kind to me - thank you.

And I don't see conservatives as monsters! I just had an "old" reaction. I thought I was accidently posted somewhere I was not allowed to.

[Criada]

Anyone with a picture of Baloo is very welcome as far as I am concerned! :D
:hug:

[Grizzly]

I'm definitely opened to it, but the problem is that "christian liberalism" basically denies scripture and many of the essentials of the christian system. I guess they would have to be fake liberals.

Of course. When you said liberal, I was thinking political liberal (Christians who think using the government to feed the pooor and help the sick is a good thing). I forgot there were theological conservatives and liberals.

I guess I spend too much time posting in General Politics.

[praying]

I guess I spend too much time posting in General Politics.


When there was such a thing. :(

[Q]

Hi Q,

Could you not use such a broad brush please? You don't know how I feel about anyone else's "Christian-ness". I'm in this forum because I was given a label by others and don't know where else to go. So there is plenty of labeling and finger-pointing and judging going on by lots of people on this site right now. It would be nice if we could get past that, though.

I apologise,I meant to say most,that is unfortunately my experience.

It was not meant to be a judgemental coment in anyway,just something I only discovered and observed once I joined CF.
Even people who I made close friends with,felt not comfortable once they realised I did not share the beliefs in hell,evil,demons,YEC,literal bible.

I tried to ask why does it matter to them,but they did not want to talk about it,and I respected it.


I dislike generalising,and I keep making this mistake,as I have a group in mind,and dont explain clearly what I mean.

I know everyone is diferent,but sometimes it is dificult to avoid generalising ,and I am sorry I offended you,I don't really know why I am called liberal ether,because I am quite conservative in lifestyle,and I actualy dislike things and groups labelled liberal,especialy in political and social issues.

thank you for pointing it out to me,I will edit my post.

[Criada]

I apologise,I meant to say most,that is unfortunately my experience.

It was not meant to be a judgemental coment in anyway,just something I only discovered and observed once I joined CF.
Even people who I made close friends with,felt not comfortable once they realised I did not share the beliefs in hell,evil,demons,YEC,literal bible.

I tried to ask why does it matter to them,but they did not want to talk about it,and I respected it.


I dislike generalising,and I keep making this mistake,as I have a group in mind,and dont explain clearly what I mean.

I know everyone is diferent,but sometimes it is dificult to avoid generalising ,and I am sorry I offended you,I don't really know why I am called liberal ether,because I am quite conservative in lifestyle,and I actualy dislike things and groups labelled liberal,especialy in political and social issues.

thank you for pointing it out to me,I will edit my post.
Are you saying you don't believe in evil?
Or am I misinterpreting? :scratch:

[Q]

Well I'll be the first one to admit that I have yet to meet a liberal who I consider a real Christian. I think moderates slide, but definetely not liberals. They kill the essence of what being a Christian is.


What essence?I guess this is a wrong place for asking,if you ever want to discuss it,please created thread and post me a link.

Well, maybe now that the walls are lower here at CF, you might run into one or two that will change your mind?

I have met a few in Crevo,but they become sort of liberal,by rejecting YEC and literal bible.

I'm definitely opened to it, but the problem is that "christian liberalism" basically denies scripture and many of the essentials of the christian system. I guess they would have to be fake liberals.

LOL.
I don't deny the bible,I just see it differently,as a work of inspired men,rather than a perfect manual for life writen by God.


You have all been very kind to me - thank you.

And I don't see conservatives as monsters! I just had an "old" reaction. I thought I was accidently posted somewhere I was not allowed to.

You just wanted to see what is it in their picnic baskets ,admit it ...

Of course. When you said liberal, I was thinking political liberal (Christians who think using the government to feed the pooor and help the sick is a good thing). I forgot there were theological conservatives and liberals.

I guess I spend too much time posting in General Politics.

LOL..Grizzly does not like welfare state?

There is so many ways a person can be,I am conservative in lifestyle,liberal in religion,and libertarian in politics...add to it vegetarian eco warrior,and tell me,what shall I call myself...actualy,dont :P

[Letalis]

When there was such a thing. :(
That forum was reopened.

[praying]

That forum was reopened.

:eek: Really I had no idea, I got tired of checking.

Great thanks!


*runs over to Politics*

[Letalis]

No one ever reads the announcements. ^_^

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

No one ever reads the announcements. ^_^
^_^ That's true for the most part...:P

[humblet]

The statement I made about "Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian" I admit I phrased wrongly and should have used a better choice of words - just because I say I am a Wookie doesn't make me a Wookie per se - in the end, I was trying to say that staff will no longer try to force an icon change on members, something that puts a lot of stress on both staff and members.

Sorry...I'm slow to find this thread...but could these two things be any more different??????? Saying anyone who says they're a Christian is is completely different than saying 'staff, you're no longer allowed to force someone to change their icon'. :doh:

I wondered how well thought out these changes were, and I think I'm starting to get an answer :sigh: .

[Rep Daddy]

Sorry...I'm slow to find this thread...but could these two things be any more different??????? Saying anyone who says they're a Christian is is completely different than saying 'staff, you're no longer allowed to force someone to change their icon'. :doh:

I wondered how well thought out these changes were, and I think I'm starting to get an answer :sigh: .

Read NewMan's post (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36894059&postcount=11) for additional insight.

[meh]

I apologise,I meant to say most,that is unfortunately my experience.

It was not meant to be a judgemental coment in anyway,just something I only discovered and observed once I joined CF.
Even people who I made close friends with,felt not comfortable once they realised I did not share the beliefs in hell,evil,demons,YEC,literal bible.

I tried to ask why does it matter to them,but they did not want to talk about it,and I respected it.


I dislike generalising,and I keep making this mistake,as I have a group in mind,and dont explain clearly what I mean.

I know everyone is diferent,but sometimes it is dificult to avoid generalising ,and I am sorry I offended you,I don't really know why I am called liberal ether,because I am quite conservative in lifestyle,and I actualy dislike things and groups labelled liberal,especialy in political and social issues.

thank you for pointing it out to me,I will edit my post.

thanks, Q:hug: sorry to be so bristly. i hope you hang out here with us :)

[Q]

Thank you Meh,I dont mind being corrected :hug:

Are you saying you don't believe in evil?
Or am I misinterpreting? :scratch:


I don't believe in an evil entity.
I think Satan is a servant of God,doing exactly what it was designed to do,being an accuser,but not acting on it's own will.
I believe evil exist in us.
I think Lucifer is a translation based myth,and I dont believe in eternal punishment.


No one ever reads the announcements. ^_^

LOL..nope!

[MariaRegina]

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36900933&postcount=290

This is the real problem I have with the whole Wiki setup.

Unless Erwin rectifies this, we are doomed.

How does one account for sock puppets when Internet Cafes, Campus Colleges, and other sites offer that availability making it so difficult and in some cases impossible to do an IP check to verify these socks.

How can one vote without voter fraud?

[CaDan]

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36900933&postcount=290

This is the real problem I have with the whole Wiki setup.

We have a self appointed Wiki-mistress who appoints a self-proclaimed cheat to work on the wikis'. Is this appropriate?

Unless Erwin rectifies this, we are doomed.

Not self-appointed.

[SunMessenger]

thanks, Q:hug: sorry to be so bristly. i hope you hang out here with us :)
Me too and yes Q thank you for the reps. God Bless.

[SunMessenger]

Sorry...I'm slow to find this thread...but could these two things be any more different??????? Saying anyone who says they're a Christian is is completely different than saying 'staff, you're no longer allowed to force someone to change their icon'. :doh:

I wondered how well thought out these changes were, and I think I'm starting to get an answer :sigh: .
I believe the changes were very well thought out . The implementation of them is another matter . That was a mess.

[GreenMunchkin]

I believe the changes were very well thought out . The implementation of them is another matter . That was a mess.You honestly do, bro? How so? :hug:

[SunMessenger]

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36900933&postcount=290

This is the real problem I have with the whole Wiki setup.

We have a self appointed Wiki-mistress who appoints a self-proclaimed cheat to work on the wikis'. Is this appropriate?

Unless Erwin rectifies this, we are doomed.

This entire wiki is madness. The attempt to reinvent the rules is like reinventing the wheel. We already had them and they just needed to be updated . A big upset cast upon the members for no good reason other than to absolve one from responsibility.

Awful needless waist of energy. All we can do is point things out and pray . I refuse to agree to stay within any ones good graces . God is my only authority. :)

Sun

[SunMessenger]

You honestly do, bro? How so? :hug:
Well it seems that the big guy was tired of getting messages from some and thought about a way to remove himself from the responsibility or aggravation by throwing the process back at the members to do. Understandable for a busy guy but remember it could also have been done on a gradual basis not all at one time. I feel that is what shocked people the most.

[GreenMunchkin]

Oh I see what you mean now. I thought you meant it had all been strategically planned, and I was about to strongly disagree :D

[suzybeezy]

Not self-appointed.

So if not self-appointed, does this mean someone put her in that position?

[Hishandmaiden]

Well I'll be the first one to admit that I have yet to meet a liberal who I consider a real Christian. I think moderates slide, but definetely not liberals. They kill the essence of what being a Christian is.
I was a liberal christian before I went deeper into the Word. It is possible to be a liberal christian and still knows Jesus.

We need time to grow and mature.

[Hishandmaiden]

No one ever reads the announcements. ^_^
Not me. I do, sometimes. :)

[SunMessenger]

I was a liberal christian before I went deeper into the Word. It is possible to be a liberal christian and still knows Jesus.

We need time to grow and mature.
I believe that also. It can happen in steps . Hey even conversions can be gradual. All in God's time not ours. Very true.

[Glass*Soul]

This entire wiki is madness. The attempt to reinvent the rules is like reinventing the wheel. We already had them and they just needed to be updated . A big upset cast upon the members for no good reason other than to absolve one from responsibility.

Awful needless waist of energy. All we can do is point things out and pray . I refuse to agree to stay within any ones good graces . God is my only authority. :)

Sun

Hi SunMessenger:

I agree the wiki process is a little messy right now. I tend to think of it the way I do a room I'm spring cleaning. About 1/3 of the way through, the room actually looks to be in a far worse state of disarry than before I began, but if I'm patient and keep plugging away, order will begin to rise out of the chaos. :D

I can't comment on Erwin's reasons for starting this, but good things are coming out of it. I'm finding myself working with and gaining much respect for people I seldom encountered on this board before the reforms. I think that we're learning that whatever our disagreements may be, we're not that far apart as to what we feel needs to be included in the rules.

Have you read the core rules wiki lately? I think its shaping up fairly nicely. If you feel that something important is missing come let us know and help work on them. http://www.christianforums.com/t5692141-wiki-christian-forums-rules-draft-version-2.html

We're currently struggling to find the proper wording for a rule that will satisfy the concerns of many of the Christians on here that we not blaspheme, while still allowing fruitful debate and discussion between Christians and non-Christains and between Christians with differing opinions on the nature of God. I think we're gettingc close. I've suggested combining bullet points 7 and 8, simplifying and clarifying the intent, but someone else may have a better idea.

Also we're working on some guidelines for using wikis that may help sort out some of the mess and confusion. http://www.christianforums.com/t5746064-wiki-cf-wiki-guidelines-and-structure.html

Come help. We need you.

[IamRedeemed]

Hi all, I did not see this forum before. Not surprising, as this place is humongous. But I am glad I found it.

One thing I wonder with the ecunemical ideology is why would we think or believe that we can be successful where Jesus failed and told us we would fail also? And that we, as servants, are no better than our master and that if we follow Him and take a stand for righteousness that we also, would be persecuted and that some of us (which many of our brothers and sisters in other lands experience on a daily basis) would be killed for His name's sake? Some just try to kill our spirits, even though they can't kill our bodies.

His name's sake is righteousness over sin, life over death, and He is the only way to heaven and repentance is the only way to Him.

Not a popular message. People want their cake and eat it too. They want to continue to wear the label of "sinner", and continue to walk in sin, while wearing the badge of ambassador and disciple of Christ.

I am not saying that as Christians we will never sin again, however, sin should not be an acceptable part of our daily walk, we should be confessing and allowing the Holy Spirit to purge our sins from us and replace them with the righteousness of Christ, better this year than we were last year, but not holding on to "pet sins" at any time, understanding that we forfeited that life, for TRUE life, in Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that we cannot serve two masters. So, why do we think that His message is null and void today? Are we more superior today than we were two thousand years ago, that now we think we can serve two masters without hating one of them?

We will be unified IF and WHEN, we all a)Believe and b) Follow the Scriptures, and not a moment before.

[IamRedeemed]

I think what he probably means, (if not, please correct me Newguy101),
is that he has yet to meet a liberal who represents the mind of Christ,
according to the Word.


I was a liberal christian before I went deeper into the Word. It is possible to be a liberal christian and still knows Jesus.

We need time to grow and mature.

NewGuy101[/b]
Well I'll be the first one to admit that I have yet to meet a liberal who I consider a real Christian. I think moderates slide, but definetely not liberals. They kill the essence of what being a Christian is.

[GreenMunchkin]

Hi SunMessenger:

I agree the wiki process is a little messy right now. I tend to think of it the way I do a room I'm spring cleaning. About 1/3 of the way through, the room actually looks to be in a far worse state of disarry than before I began, but if I'm patient and keep plugging away, order will begin to rise out of the chaos. :D

*snipped*Hiya, Glass*Soul :hug:

I can't lie... I still think non-Christians writing the wiki is wrong for a Christian board, but I know you've poured *hours* into it and you're being as fair as possible, so thank you for all the work you've put into it :hug:

God bless you, sweetie.

[SunMessenger]

Hiya, Glass*Soul :hug:

I can't lie... I still think non-Christians writing the wiki is wrong for a Christian board, but I know you've poured *hours* into it and you're being as fair as possible, so thank you for all the work you've put into it :hug:

God bless you, sweetie.
I agree.

[Rep Daddy]

Take Christ's name out of the label on this site and I am fine with the changes.

[Hishandmaiden]

Hi all, I did not see this forum before. Not surprising, as this place is humongous. But I am glad I found it.

One thing I wonder with the ecunemical ideology is why would we think or believe that we can be successful where Jesus failed and told us we would fail also? And that we, as servants, are no better than our master and that if we follow Him and take a stand for righteousness that we also, would be persecuted and that some of us (which many of our brothers and sisters in other lands experience on a daily basis) would be killed for His name's sake? Some just try to kill our spirits, even though they can't kill our bodies.

His name's sake is righteousness over sin, life over death, and He is the only way to heaven and repentance is the only way to Him.

Not a popular message. People want their cake and eat it too. They want to continue to wear the label of "sinner", and continue to walk in sin, while wearing the badge of ambassador and disciple of Christ.

I am not saying that as Christians we will never sin again, however, sin should not be an acceptable part of our daily walk, we should be confessing and allowing the Holy Spirit to purge our sins from us and replace them with the righteousness of Christ, better this year than we were last year, but not holding on to "pet sins" at any time, understanding that we forfeited that life, for TRUE life, in Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that we cannot serve two masters. So, why do we think that His message is null and void today? Are we more superior today than we were two thousand years ago, that now we think we can serve two masters without hating one of them?

We will be unified IF and WHEN, we all a)Believe and b) Follow the Scriptures, and not a moment before.

Amen, sister.

You cannot find this forum before because it is only recently created! :)

[SunMessenger]

Take Christ's name out of the label on this site and I am fine with the changes.
I do wish the Cross could go back at the top. The Cross is needed everywhere especially now.

[Rep Daddy]

I do wish the Cross could go back at the top. The Cross is needed everywhere especially now.

When the Ark was removed in the OT here was the commentary:

And she named the child Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel.

1 Samuel 4:21

[Sothron]

Interesting, I have thought that too.

Game premise: Balance Conservative vs. Liberal; Protestant vs. Catholic, etc. into the perfect dynamic tension. Avoid letting any side get too strong to lose the balance.

Levels:

First Level -- Alpha Phase: staff control the parameters in seeking to preserve the balance.
Second Level -- WIKI Phase: members control the parameters in seeking to preserve the balance.Hint:

To win you must remove the players with convictions they will not compromise or secure them in "Safe Houses" in order to maintain equilibrium. Ergo, the latest Announcement by the Head Programmer.

just a thought....

Its one I happen to agree with. I feel like this is some kind of Harvard psych experiment for a new computerized age.

[SunMessenger]

Its one I happen to agree with. I feel like this is some kind of Harvard psych experiment for a new computerized age.
Me too. Seems that way .

[IamRedeemed]

Oh, that could be another very good reason I never saw it! hehehehe :thumbsup:


Amen, sister.

You cannot find this forum before because it is only recently created! :)

[SunMessenger]

Oh, that could be another very good reason I never saw it! hehehehe :thumbsup:
:wave: LOL

[Glass*Soul]

Its one I happen to agree with. I feel like this is some kind of Harvard psych experiment for a new computerized age.

Would the Gospel of Christ win out in either scenario?

[tapero]

Hiya, Glass*Soul :hug:

I can't lie... I still think non-Christians writing the wiki is wrong for a Christian board, but I know you've poured *hours* into it and you're being as fair as possible, so thank you for all the work you've put into it :hug:

God bless you, sweetie.

Hi,

I haven't read posts prior to yours but working in Wiki I have found that non c's are considerate of c's needs, and visa versa.

:hug:

[SunMessenger]

Would the Gospel of Christ win out in either scenario?
I believe that good wins everytime. Patience is the key needed to make it happen. :wave:

Do not forget a double dose of prayer too...

[Glass*Soul]

I believe that good wins everytime. Patience is the key needed to make it happen. :wave:

Do not forget a double dose of prayer too...


The Holy of Holies stopped being a "place" a long time ago. No man can remover the Ark from its current residence.

I think we need to stop worrying about the shape of this board. I don't think it matters. ;)

[SunMessenger]

The Holy of Holies stopped being a "place" a long time ago. No man can remover the Ark from its current residence.

I think we need to stop worrying about the shape of this board. I don't think it matters. ;)
Who am I to know? I am just an insignificant member. Loud but insignificant. ;) :)

[Hishandmaiden]

I do wish the Cross could go back at the top. The Cross is needed everywhere especially now.
I wish the cross is back, too.

[SunMessenger]

I wish the cross is back, too.:amen:

[CyberPaladin]

I wish the cross is back, too.

Would like it back too.

[GreenMunchkin]

Erwin's never gonna change the forum's name, but if enough people wanted the cross back, that may be do-able... we could start a poll for that.

[Rep Daddy]

Erwin's never gonna change the forum's name, but if enough people wanted the cross back, that may be do-able... we could start a poll for that.


And round two of the Cross vs Crucifix War ensues.
Dibs on the popcorn booth at the poll.

[SunMessenger]

Erwin's never gonna change the forum's name, but if enough people wanted the cross back, that may be do-able... we could start a poll for that.
Anything evil has a problem remaining very long with the cross reminding it of Jesus and all He gave to us. Salvation! Praise God ! Salvation !

[IamRedeemed]

:wave: LOL

Hi there SunMessenger. God bless! :wave:

[Sothron]

And round two of the Cross vs Crucifix War ensues.
Dibs on the popcorn booth at the poll.

I would like to throw my third party candidate of the three bar Orthodox Cross into the race. :P

[SunMessenger]

Hi there SunMessenger. God bless! :wave::hug:

[Angeldove97]

How about an Orthodox Cross, a Crucifix for the Catholics, and a "normal" Cross to represent those who are Protestant? I'm all for bringing those symbols back to the top of the site...where they ought to be. :)

[SunMessenger]

How about an Orthodox Cross, a Crucifix for the Catholics, and a "normal" Cross to represent those who are Protestant? I'm all for bringing those symbols back to the top of the site...where they ought to be. :)
Why not? I agree. That is what will help move away the evil that lurks on the net. I think it should be done right away.

[Glass*Soul]

I hope you guys don't mind me poking my nose in again, but since I made a point of expressing some hurt feelings earlier, I did want to come back and say something positive.

I think the idea of asking Erwin to display several different crosses in the banner is an excellent one. It captures the eccumenical spirit of CF and it's a positive call for change.

Very cool. Carpe diem. :)

[SunMessenger]

I hope you guys don't mind me poking my nose in again, but since I made a point of expressing some hurt feelings earlier, I did want to come back and say something positive.

I think the idea of asking Erwin to display several different crosses in the banner is an excellent one. It captures the eccumenical spirit of CF and it's a positive call for change.

Very cool. Carpe diem. :)
:hug:

[Joykins]

Seeing the cross on the site helped my son become interested in Jesus. I miss it.

The fish and the Chi Rho are also well-established symbols but not as well-known to other groups.

[SunMessenger]

Seeing the cross on the site helped my son become interested in Jesus. I miss it.

The fish and the Chi Rho are also well-established symbols but not as well-known to other groups.
See that he became interested in Jesus. Wonderful testimony. Thank You for that. That was touching.

[Rep Daddy]

Seeing the cross on the site helped my son become interested in Jesus. I miss it.

The fish and the Chi Rho are also well-established symbols but not as well-known to other groups.

Is he now interested in fishing or getting some tropical fish?

I know I have gotten rid of our wicker furniture sine 7-7-7

[Sothron]

How about an Orthodox Cross, a Crucifix for the Catholics, and a "normal" Cross to represent those who are Protestant? I'm all for bringing those symbols back to the top of the site...where they ought to be. :)

Excellent idea! Repped! :clap:

[CyberPaladin]

How about an Orthodox Cross, a Crucifix for the Catholics, and a "normal" Cross to represent those who are Protestant? I'm all for bringing those symbols back to the top of the site...where they ought to be. :)
Only the PROTESTANT CROSS I'm just kidding. :P

That would be a very good solution that I would fully support.

[Joykins]

Is he now interested in fishing or getting some tropical fish?

Not really, but he loves EATING fish.

[Albion]

How about an Orthodox Cross, a Crucifix for the Catholics, and a "normal" Cross to represent those who are Protestant? I'm all for bringing those symbols back to the top of the site...where they ought to be. :)

I like your thinking, but I'd opt for three crosses that are not immediately identifiable as those associated with particular churches or communions. Something like a plain cross, a Jerusalem cross (used for RCs on CF but liked by members of a number of denominations in real life), and a Greek cross (equal length arms), let's say. Or a Maltese cross.

[CyberPaladin]

I like your thinking, but I'd opt for three crosses that are not immediately identifiable as those associated with particular churches or communions. Something like a plain cross, a Jerusalem cross (used for RCs on CF but liked by members of a number of denominations in real life), and a Greek cross (equal length arms), let's say. Or a Maltese cross.

I like where your thinking is going s generic cross is the way to go of course there are some Christians that claim that the cross is orginaly a pagan symbol so no cross is the only way they will be happy.

[SunMessenger]

I like where your thinking is going s generic cross is the way to go of course there are some Christians that claim that the cross is orginaly a pagan symbol so no cross is the only way they will be happy.
The cross that was up before did not seem to be a problem. It seemed to help protect this place by showing all that come that this is a place that believed in salvation. They should have left it alone . A contest brought about this current banner and it is very nice and shows much talent for the designer . Maybe it can be used in special areas but I do feel strongly that the original cross should be displayed again.

God Bless ...
Sun

[Angeldove97]

Woot, glad people like the idea of multiple crosses. It might have been a pagan symbol but we have claimed it as our own and it now means something VERY different and we now use it to help inspire and remind us of our walk with Him.

I was kinda thinking of three crosses, like how it was set up when He was crucified. Maybe we could have an image of Jesus above them with His hands stretched out. Anyways...

I choose the most widely understood crosses. People can identify with these three crosses:
http://www.alaskajewelry.com/images/imagecache/252_00257_312.jpg http://www.wheresmyhead.com/images/topics/topic_cross.gif http://mike.ripplinger.us/images/crucifix.jpg
easier than some other crosses. Well at least Tati can cause I grew up Orthodox (my first cross necklace is a Russian Orthodox cross ^_^), was Protestant for awhile and wore the middle cross on a necklace, and now I'm Catholic so I have the Crucifix.

Anyway we can help inspire ourselves to be more like Christ is good! This should be supported ^_^