geocajun
18th July 2007, 10:56 PM
Liberal Catholic Sub-forum
"Blessed is the man that doth meditate good things in wisdom, and that reasoneth of holy things by his understanding." -Ecclesiasticus 14:20
"Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified; but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed." -Isaiah 66:5
"Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable upon mine altar, for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples" -Isaiah 56:7
"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." -Romans 13:8
Congregational Forum Standards
“Liberal Catholic” is a congregational sub-forum governed by the broader rules of Christian Forums. Please make sure you are familiar with the latest statement of those rules before you post in this forum.
All those who consider themselves Liberal Catholics, in the broadest sense, are welcome to fully participate in the life and work of this forum community, including participating in debates. We also want to explicitly and especially extend an invitation to lapsed and former Catholics who have an attachment to Catholicism and view themselves as sharing some of the same values or cultural backgrounds as other members of the forum, to participate as full members.
It is joyfully anticipated that a lively group of moderate and progressive Roman Catholics, Old Catholics, Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutherans, former Catholics, those that are re-entering faith formation and others will join us in community here. We want to cast the widest net possible in building community.
Members and Non-Members
This is the congregational forum for members of Christian Forums who self-identify as “Liberal Catholics” and other associated groups as outlined above. While all catholics are able to debate in this forum, those who are anti-liberal should be aware they are visitors here.
Those who aggressively and actively reject theological liberalism are welcome for fellowship, questions and inquiries, non-debate discussion, and finally, at the discretion of the moderating team, limited congenial debate. Flamers will be removed.
It is the responsibility of any non-member posting in this forum to avoid contentious topics.
Diversity of Belief Among Members
The “Liberal Catholic” forum is for members of Apostolic Churches and similar associated groups or categories, who express a range of perspectives on different doctrines. Despite this breadth of thought within our Churches and groups, it is possible for them to coexist.
Because we want to include as many people as possible, we recognize that there will invariably be some strong disagreement on the part of forum members with regard to doctrine and liturgical practice. This might be found more especially among those denominations and communions who identify as Old Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and Orthodox (Eastern or Oriental). There is a rich tradition of pluralistic sentiment, even within the Roman Catholic Church. Please respect the diversity of thought, belief, and liturgical practices of everyone present, taking care not to engage a forum member on the validity of either their Sacraments, dogma, or worship style.
As Catholic means "universal" so we have the need to convey our faith to other members, to non-Catholics and non-Christians in an informational and spiritual way
It is the expectation on this board that the diverse groups will co-exist, and do so courteously, or at least with restraint from discourtesy.
Interaction of Members Regarding Disagreement in the Roman Catholic Church
It must be said that before any question of disagreement with the Roman Catholic Church can be made, there must be a statement about Catholic identity. This must occur before reduction of any argument about allegiance to one or another of the Church’s teachings. Catholic identity is shaped by the willingness to be addressed by the Holy Spirit and by God in Christ. Catholic identity is shaped by the faithful celebration of the Eucharist and engagement of distinctive practices: fasting, alms, giving, visiting the sick, keeping the Sabbath and speaking out against injustice.
Catholic identity is also promoted by fellowshipping in One Bread One Body (OBOB)- Catholic. This sub-forum was not formed to supplant OBOB but to provide perspectives that are in adjunct to that forum. We all must remember that most of us have had many positive moments in OBOB and will continue to do so.
Catholic Dogmas (1st gradation) are the most authoritative of the Church’s teachings. The only appropriate response to dogma for the Catholic believer is “assent of faith’” as described in Vatican II. Rejection of dogma by obstinate or public denial may result in the formal excommunication “by heresy”, which is rare. The actual stance of most Catholics to dogmatic teachings ranges from “explicit affirmation” to “explicit rejection”. Explicit rejection may not result in landing a believer outside of God’s Grace or salvation but it may result in placing someone outside of Roman Catholic communion by formal excommunication by a bishop of the Church.
For the purposes of this forum and the contemplation of what Church dogmas are (as given above), flaming someone as a “heretic”, “schismatic” or any other disparaging remarks will be subject to heavy moderation and editing. It is hoped that these remarks will lead all posters to respect one another without calling each other terms that can only be granted by a Catholic bishop.
Disagreement to Definitive Doctrine (second gradation) involves explicit rejection a believer is “bound to firmly accept and hold as true”. There is no evidence that explicit rejection of Definitive Doctrine has ever resulted in formal excommunication as heresy. Definitive Doctrine is not divinely inspired but are necessary to “safeguard and explain” revelation.
If one’s denial is well informed and in keeping with the desire to remain united in faith with the Catholic Church, the withholding of internal assent, while a serious error, would not necessarily place one outside of Roman Catholic communion.
For the purposes of this forum, claiming one is “withholding internal assent” or is not “well informed” as to the teachings of the Catholic Church with be subject to heavy moderation and editing. Posters that do not have respectful regard for inquiry within the Church will be also be subject to heavy moderation.
Disagreement to Authoritative Doctrine (3rd gradation) is with the Church teachings that mainly involve moral life (i.e., cohabitation or artificial contraception). If one approaches problems with agreement to apply “docility”(a submission to study the problem further), examines one’s conscience and ultimately setting a distinction between the intrinsic problem and the actual conveyance of the Church’s teaching office- then one has met the burden of inquiry. While still not able to provide internal assent, it does not separate the individual from the Church.
Disagreement to Concrete Application, Admonition and Discipline (4th gradation) which includes examples like disagreeing with a bishop’s strategy to serve the poor or acceptance of the Church’s teaching that all Catholics bear responsibility for the welfare of the poor, can be denied under the will of good conscience as provided by the Council of Bishops. It must be remembered that most church law is set up to foster the call to holiness but that “observing such law might be detrimental to the common good or to the good of individuals”.
"Blessed is the man that doth meditate good things in wisdom, and that reasoneth of holy things by his understanding." -Ecclesiasticus 14:20
"Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified; but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed." -Isaiah 66:5
"Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable upon mine altar, for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples" -Isaiah 56:7
"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." -Romans 13:8
Congregational Forum Standards
“Liberal Catholic” is a congregational sub-forum governed by the broader rules of Christian Forums. Please make sure you are familiar with the latest statement of those rules before you post in this forum.
All those who consider themselves Liberal Catholics, in the broadest sense, are welcome to fully participate in the life and work of this forum community, including participating in debates. We also want to explicitly and especially extend an invitation to lapsed and former Catholics who have an attachment to Catholicism and view themselves as sharing some of the same values or cultural backgrounds as other members of the forum, to participate as full members.
It is joyfully anticipated that a lively group of moderate and progressive Roman Catholics, Old Catholics, Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutherans, former Catholics, those that are re-entering faith formation and others will join us in community here. We want to cast the widest net possible in building community.
Members and Non-Members
This is the congregational forum for members of Christian Forums who self-identify as “Liberal Catholics” and other associated groups as outlined above. While all catholics are able to debate in this forum, those who are anti-liberal should be aware they are visitors here.
Those who aggressively and actively reject theological liberalism are welcome for fellowship, questions and inquiries, non-debate discussion, and finally, at the discretion of the moderating team, limited congenial debate. Flamers will be removed.
It is the responsibility of any non-member posting in this forum to avoid contentious topics.
Diversity of Belief Among Members
The “Liberal Catholic” forum is for members of Apostolic Churches and similar associated groups or categories, who express a range of perspectives on different doctrines. Despite this breadth of thought within our Churches and groups, it is possible for them to coexist.
Because we want to include as many people as possible, we recognize that there will invariably be some strong disagreement on the part of forum members with regard to doctrine and liturgical practice. This might be found more especially among those denominations and communions who identify as Old Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and Orthodox (Eastern or Oriental). There is a rich tradition of pluralistic sentiment, even within the Roman Catholic Church. Please respect the diversity of thought, belief, and liturgical practices of everyone present, taking care not to engage a forum member on the validity of either their Sacraments, dogma, or worship style.
As Catholic means "universal" so we have the need to convey our faith to other members, to non-Catholics and non-Christians in an informational and spiritual way
It is the expectation on this board that the diverse groups will co-exist, and do so courteously, or at least with restraint from discourtesy.
Interaction of Members Regarding Disagreement in the Roman Catholic Church
It must be said that before any question of disagreement with the Roman Catholic Church can be made, there must be a statement about Catholic identity. This must occur before reduction of any argument about allegiance to one or another of the Church’s teachings. Catholic identity is shaped by the willingness to be addressed by the Holy Spirit and by God in Christ. Catholic identity is shaped by the faithful celebration of the Eucharist and engagement of distinctive practices: fasting, alms, giving, visiting the sick, keeping the Sabbath and speaking out against injustice.
Catholic identity is also promoted by fellowshipping in One Bread One Body (OBOB)- Catholic. This sub-forum was not formed to supplant OBOB but to provide perspectives that are in adjunct to that forum. We all must remember that most of us have had many positive moments in OBOB and will continue to do so.
Catholic Dogmas (1st gradation) are the most authoritative of the Church’s teachings. The only appropriate response to dogma for the Catholic believer is “assent of faith’” as described in Vatican II. Rejection of dogma by obstinate or public denial may result in the formal excommunication “by heresy”, which is rare. The actual stance of most Catholics to dogmatic teachings ranges from “explicit affirmation” to “explicit rejection”. Explicit rejection may not result in landing a believer outside of God’s Grace or salvation but it may result in placing someone outside of Roman Catholic communion by formal excommunication by a bishop of the Church.
For the purposes of this forum and the contemplation of what Church dogmas are (as given above), flaming someone as a “heretic”, “schismatic” or any other disparaging remarks will be subject to heavy moderation and editing. It is hoped that these remarks will lead all posters to respect one another without calling each other terms that can only be granted by a Catholic bishop.
Disagreement to Definitive Doctrine (second gradation) involves explicit rejection a believer is “bound to firmly accept and hold as true”. There is no evidence that explicit rejection of Definitive Doctrine has ever resulted in formal excommunication as heresy. Definitive Doctrine is not divinely inspired but are necessary to “safeguard and explain” revelation.
If one’s denial is well informed and in keeping with the desire to remain united in faith with the Catholic Church, the withholding of internal assent, while a serious error, would not necessarily place one outside of Roman Catholic communion.
For the purposes of this forum, claiming one is “withholding internal assent” or is not “well informed” as to the teachings of the Catholic Church with be subject to heavy moderation and editing. Posters that do not have respectful regard for inquiry within the Church will be also be subject to heavy moderation.
Disagreement to Authoritative Doctrine (3rd gradation) is with the Church teachings that mainly involve moral life (i.e., cohabitation or artificial contraception). If one approaches problems with agreement to apply “docility”(a submission to study the problem further), examines one’s conscience and ultimately setting a distinction between the intrinsic problem and the actual conveyance of the Church’s teaching office- then one has met the burden of inquiry. While still not able to provide internal assent, it does not separate the individual from the Church.
Disagreement to Concrete Application, Admonition and Discipline (4th gradation) which includes examples like disagreeing with a bishop’s strategy to serve the poor or acceptance of the Church’s teaching that all Catholics bear responsibility for the welfare of the poor, can be denied under the will of good conscience as provided by the Council of Bishops. It must be remembered that most church law is set up to foster the call to holiness but that “observing such law might be detrimental to the common good or to the good of individuals”.