What does "conservative" mean to you?

[GreenMunchkin]

Am sort of confused as to what it means to people... both theologically, in terms of your faith, and whether it does have an inherent link with your political viewpoint?

Really interested, because it's only relatively recently I realised am "conservative", so am still exploring that a bit and going "Ooh!" a lot :)

Thenk you veddy much :hug:

[Izdaari]

In some ways I'm conservative, in some ways I'm not.

Theologically, I'm very conservative on the basics of the faith, the Nicene Creed and stuff like that. And I believe in the literal truth of the miracles of the Gospels and of the Pentecostal gifts. But I'm a theistic evolutionist, and though I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, I don't believe it's "verbally inspired" (as in word for word dictated by God) or inerrant. And I tend to be fairly liberal in matters of personal morality and cultural stuff.

Politically, I'm neolibertarian (httphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolibertarianism://) rather than conservative. That is, I'm for maximizing individual liberty consistent with order and the rule of law. I'm for laissez-faire capitalism so far as is practical, and I'm for a traditional conservative Republican type of foreign policy, somewhere in the Eisenhower to Reagan range. I'm also an extremely strict construction constitutionalist: like Ron Paul, if it isn't expressly authorized by the Constitution, I don't think the federal government has any business doing it.

[Hishandmaiden]

For me, being conservative means I believe in what the Bible said as the Truth and that the standard of God doesn't change through time.
That God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
And that we don't conform God to our standards but we conform ourselves to His standards.

I believe the Bible is from God, but not word for word. What I mean is, the bible's real author is God. The message is from God. The gist of the bible, is from God. Therefore, its author is God and its message is relevant even if society changes.

But the one who God uses to write it is human authors, and therefore, when translated into different languages, the Word for Word accuracy may not be 100% there.

But the inherent message will still be there 100%.

Being conservative also means that my stand on homosexuality, abortion is according to the Bible's literal meaning of it. That means, they are wrong.

It also means that I believe in miracles, and healings, and what is recorded in the Bible are not mere symbolic stories, but actually happens.

That includes Jesus walking on water, a donkey talking, and the flood.

[NewGuy101]

I'm still trying to figure out why they made this forum while having the fundametalist forum.

[Albion]

I'm still trying to figure out why they made this forum while having the fundametalist forum.

Because you have to be a fundamentalist to be in that forum. Many conservatives, theologically and socially, are not fundamentalists because they don't adhere to every one of the specific doctrinal points that always have identified fundamentalism. Would we consider William F. Buckley, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Fred Thompson, or C. S. Lewis to be conservative Christians? I'd think so, but none is a fundamentalist.

[NewGuy101]

Because you have to be a fundamentalist to be in that forum. Many conservatives, theologically and socially, are not fundamentalists because they don't adhere to every one of the specific doctrinal points that always have identified fundamentalism. Would we consider William F. Buckley, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Fred Thompson, or C. S. Lewis to be conservative Christians? I'd think so, but none is a fundamentalist.
Are you speaking of social conservatism? I do think that CS Lewis was a fundie since it was the only person you mentioned that I know.

[CyberPaladin]

I'm still trying to figure out why they made this forum while having the fundametalist forum.
I think the better question is why do you have such a big problem with nonfundie conservative christians getting there own board that you feel the need to whine repeatedly about it.

[Albion]

Are you speaking of social conservatism?

It doesn't matter. Social conservatives (the original conservatives), Fiscal conservatives, or religious conservatives are not identical to Fundamentalists.

I do think that CS Lewis was a fundie since it was the only person you mentioned that I know.

Well, he wasn't. Far from it.

But if you are unsure of what a Conservative is and don't recognize even the names of some of the most prominent people of our times, a quick reply here can't solve your problem. I'd recommend getting a good book on the subject.

[talitha]

The main things for me that make me a conservative are the belief in the Bible as the written standard for Truth and the belief that God IS truth, and everything that is good, right, and true comes from HIM.

[nyj]

I do think that CS Lewis was a fundie since it was the only person you mentioned that I know.C.S. Lewis was Anglican. :)

[nyj]

Posted this to another thread. It's my opinion on the word "conservative":

When I think conservative, I think traditional.

1 Corinthians 11:2 - I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 - So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

God is immutable ...

Malachi 3:6 - For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalm 102:27 - But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

... and such, since the Bible is His work, His message to us does not change either. Liberals would have you believe that His Church is outdated, and has wrongly interpreted His words for two thousand years. I for one, will not buy that bridge.

To boil it down: Conservatism is letting God place His desires onto us, not us placing our desires onto Him.

[SunMessenger]

When the word is used to separate Christians into categories it means trouble. That is what I see being done here. Christians who believe in and love Jesus Christ are just that Christians.

I am far from conservative in many ways. I do however believe that if God said it then it must be true. Is that being conservative ?

[talitha]

Yes, Sun Messenger. :) For purposes of this forum.

And to be clear, I agree with you.

Here's a link to something I posted in SFPC that you might enjoy reading:

Unity (`For I,' declares the LORD, `will be a wall of fire around her, and I will be the glory in her midst.')

bless you
tal

[Lisa0315]

I want to post without having read anybody elses definition so as to not be influenced. Then, I want to go back and read and compare to see how close we all come.

To me a Conservative Christian is somewhere between a Fundementalist and a Liberal. Meaning, we believe mostly the same doctrines as Fundies, but are cautious in forcing those beliefs on others. We believe in moderation rather than an extreme doctrine. It is certainly far from situational ethics, yet, it is not legalistic either.

Moderation in all things would be the motto that I would see as the best description of a Conservative Christian.

Lisa

[Simon_Templar]

To me conservative in terms of faith means that a person holds to the teachings and Faith which has been handed down since the beginning.

In specifics it is usually defiend by a belief in objective, absolute truth, the inspiration and authority of scripture, and the traditional moral teachings of the church.

[Albion]

To me, it doesn't mean only being temperate or moderate (like the fundamentalists except not pushy, as Lisa said) or catholic (believing theoretically in "everything" as the majority has believed it from the beginning, as Simon said).

To me, it is to believe in the Bible and the traditional application of the Bible's values (as Talitha said) to our society (which hardly anyone has wanted to include).

That incorporates a point (which I am glad WAS made by Simon), that the traditional moral teachings of the
church(es) are held dear to a conservative and are impossible to separate from the meaning of the word conservative.

[Simon_Templar]

To me, it doesn't mean only being temperate or moderate (like the fundamentalists except not pushy, as Lisa said) or catholic (believing theoretically in "everything" as the majority has believed it from the beginning, as Simon said).

To me, it is to believe in the Bible and the traditional application of the Bible's values (as Talitha said) to our society (which hardly anyone has wanted to include).

That incorporates a point (which I am glad WAS made by Simon), that the traditional moral teachings of the
church(es) are held dear to a conservative and are impossible to separate from the meaning of the word conservative.
When I say "since the beginning" that is the bible :) When I say that, I think specifically of Jude and his comment opening his letter.

paraphrased "I would like to write about our common salvation, but I find I must rather call your attention back to the teaching and Faith which was delivered to us by the apostles".

It begins with the bible. I don't believe that the Holy Tradition is infallible, or that it is completely original. I believe aspects of it have been added over time, which is why it is not on the same level as the scriptures. However, I think it is very difficult, if not impossible to accurately understand many aspects of scripture apart from a knowledge of the traditions and historic teaching of the church.

morality is a good example of that. The bible talks alot about sexual immorality, but people today interpet that to mean whatever they want, rather than looking at what the church has always taught it means.

[Lisa0315]

When I say "since the beginning" that is the bible :) When I say that, I think specifically of Jude and his comment opening his letter.

paraphrased "I would like to write about our common salvation, but I find I must rather call your attention back to the teaching and Faith which was delivered to us by the apostles".

It begins with the bible. I don't believe that the Holy Tradition is infallible, or that it is completely original. I believe aspects of it have been added over time, which is why it is not on the same level as the scriptures. However, I think it is very difficult, if not impossible to accurately understand many aspects of scripture apart from a knowledge of the traditions and historic teaching of the church.

morality is a good example of that. The bible talks alot about sexual immorality, but people today interpet that to mean whatever they want, rather than looking at what the church has always taught it means.

What a very, very excellent point! :thumbsup:

Lisa

[McWilliams]

Conservative, as opposite of 'liberal'.

One who seeks to follow a biblical worldview, is ever seeking scriptural truth, does not conform to this world but is transformed by the renewing of their mind that they may prove what is that good, and acceptable and perfect will of God.(Rom12:2) They are knowledgable of the Word and what our God expects of them.

A conservative would desire to do all that they do in a manner pleasing to God and to uphold HIs word.

[Albion]

When I say "since the beginning" that is the bible :) When I say that, I think specifically of Jude and his comment opening his letter.

paraphrased "I would like to write about our common salvation, but I find I must rather call your attention back to the teaching and Faith which was delivered to us by the apostles".

It begins with the bible. I don't believe that the Holy Tradition is infallible, or that it is completely original.

Good man! You wrote what you did in language that seemed so much like what is usually said by those of that other line of thought, that I made a mistake about your meaning.

However, I think it is very difficult, if not impossible to accurately understand many aspects of scripture apart from a knowledge of the traditions and historic teaching of the church.

Yes, but that is a different proposition altogether. We're all traditionalists in that sense.

morality is a good example of that. The bible talks alot about sexual immorality, but people today interpet that to mean whatever they want, rather than looking at what the church has always taught it means.

Yep. You've written on that point before, and I agree that to be a conservative means to resist the unproven, the faddish, relative truth, and situational ethics.

[Lisa0315]

Good man! You wrote what you did in language that seemed so much like what is usually said by those of that other line of thought, that I made a mistake about your meaning.



Yes, but that is a different proposition altogether. We're all traditionalists in that sense.



Yep. You've written on that point before, and I agree that to be a conservative means to resist the unproven, the faddish, relative truth, and situational ethics.

Amen on that last statement especially!

Lisa

[GreenMunchkin]

Amen on that last statement especially!

Lisa

:wave:

[talitha]

why would that be, greenie?

[Lisa0315]

.

[GreenMunchkin]

We should start a prayer chain in here, you know...

[Lisa0315]

.

[Lisa0315]

.

[GreenMunchkin]

For CF, and for the people that come here in good faith...

[Lisa0315]

I replied straight away :(

It's still in my Outbox so will forward it to you again.

Yeah, I got it. Thanks.

Lisa

[meh]

I honestly don't know. I didn't know I was one until recently.

[talitha]

hi, meh....... how did you find out? was it the strange urge to open your Bible several times a day? lol....

[meh]

hi, meh....... how did you find out? was it the strange urge to open your Bible several times a day? lol....
lol...I think it's because...I don't really know.

I'm a raging liberal politically. So you can imagine my confusion.

[GreenMunchkin]

I honestly don't know. I didn't know I was one until recently.Meh!!! You don't know how lovely it is to see you here! :hug: :hug:

If I bribe you with ice-cream and biscuits, will you stay?

[MariaRegina]

A lot of people go to sleep and then wake up after having a dream of strange reality to find themselves allied with Christ and that changes their whole outlook on life, including politics.

Having a baby, nursing it, and trying to find a good school, but finding that home is the best school ... all these things change a person's perspective.

In this world, you gotta trust in God and in Him alone, because He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the ultimate reality, while we are only living in shadowland.

[talitha]

A lot of people go to sleep and then wake up after having a dream of strange reality to find themselves allied with Christ and that changes their whole outlook on life, including politics.

Having a baby, nursing it, and trying to find a good school, but finding that home is the best school ... all these things change a person's perspective.

In this world, you gotta trust in God and in Him alone, because He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the ultimate reality, while we are only living in shadowland.
BEAUTIFUL!

[meh]

Meh!!! You don't know how lovely it is to see you here! :hug: :hug:

If I bribe you with ice-cream and biscuits, will you stay?
i might. gotta get a dollie though

[MariaRegina]

i might. gotta get a dollie though

ahhh! :)

[GreenMunchkin]

Can anyone explain the technical difference between being conservative and being a fundamentalist? :scratch:

I find that there's a different attitude, but what's the *technical* difference?

[hazeleyes80]

Can anyone explain the technical difference between being conservative and being a fundamentalist? :scratch:

I find that there's a different attitude, but what's the *technical* difference?

I think the line between the two blurs sometimes, but this is the continuum that I see it on.

< --Fundamentalist ---Conservative ---Moderate ---Liberal ---Ultra-liberal -->

I think that it has a lot to do with the finer nuances of Scripture. For instance: many fundamentalists I've come across think that women should only wear skirts. Some conservatives believe that, but others think that pants are ok as long as they're modest. Many conservatives I've come across feel that Christian rock is ok. A lot of fundamentalists (and some conservatives) that I've come across think that it's worldly. (By fundamentalist and conservative, I am referring to people who either identified themselves outright as being fundamentalist or conservative or who attend traditionally fundamentalist or conservative denoms.)

Just my $.02. If anyone disagrees or has information to the contrary, please feel free to correct me. :)

[Hishandmaiden]

I think the line between the two blurs sometimes, but this is the continuum that I see it on.

< --Fundamentalist ---Conservative ---Moderate ---Liberal ---Ultra-liberal -->

I think that it has a lot to do with the finer nuances of Scripture. For instance: many fundamentalists I've come across think that women should only wear skirts. Some conservatives believe that, but others think that pants are ok as long as they're modest. Many conservatives I've come across feel that Christian rock is ok. A lot of fundamentalists (and some conservatives) that I've come across think that it's worldly. (By fundamentalist and conservative, I am referring to people who either identified themselves outright as being fundamentalist or conservative or who attend traditionally fundamentalist or conservative denoms.)

Just my $.02. If anyone disagrees or has information to the contrary, please feel free to correct me. :)
I like your explanation. :)

[Criada]

This still confuses me.
I think I am a fundementalist...
But I am wearing jeans and listening to Kutless...
:scratch:

And I really can't see any biblical reason why either could be considered wrong.
I believe that the Bible is the word of God, that is is true literally, not metaphorically, and I try to live my life according to that belief.
So - what does that make me?

Other than very confused...

[talitha]

Criada, we need to remember, I think, that this forum is going to be a mixed bag - like someone else said, a WWMC for Conservatives..... I think Romans 14 needs to be in our minds as we speak with one another.

blessings
tal

[Criada]

Apologies if that post sounded in any way crirical - was not meant that way :(


I am just genuinely confused by all this - and if anyone can explain it to me, i would be very grateful!
:hug:

[Simon_Templar]

Fundamentalists are also, frequently (but not always) anti-charismatic. Conservatives is basically a large group, of which fundamentalists are one sub-section.

All fundamentalists are conservative, but not all conservatives are fundamentalist.

[talitha]

Fundamentalists are also, frequently (but not always) anti-charismatic.
....which is why I sometimes protest loudly when I'm called a "fundy" by anyone. I do not fit into that group - for that reason, and also (obviously) for some others.

Conservatives is basically a large group, of which fundamentalists are one sub-section.

All fundamentalists are conservative, but not all conservatives are fundamentalist.
That's how I understand it.

blessings
tal

[Criada]

OK - hadn't come across the anti-charismatic stance...

That counts me out :D

Tho, again, I think perceptions are very different in the US to what they are here...

[hazeleyes80]

Fundamentalists are also, frequently (but not always) anti-charismatic. Conservatives is basically a large group, of which fundamentalists are one sub-section.

All fundamentalists are conservative, but not all conservatives are fundamentalist.

:thumbsup: That's an excellent way of putting it.

[MMXII]

I used to think I was an ultra conservation (or that's what a liberal friend said) until the changes here at CF. I must be more on the fence.

For me being a conservative meant the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible, that it was God breathed and that the traditions of those going on before me were pretty much adhered to.

I guess since I don't believe in exclusivity of this forum or anything on the internet I must be more liberal than I thought :scratch: Be that as it may, I would label myself as conservative.

Ok, I ramble....;)

Can I hang around with you guys anyway? :)

[Albion]

:thumbsup: That's an excellent way of putting it.

It's not accurate, though. I know many fundamentalists who are liberals. The only items which make a fundamentalist a fundamentalist are listed on their forum. You can see that it is more than possible to believe all manner of other notions so long as those half-dozen or so very basic doctrinal positions are held to. That, in fact, was the idea behind fundamentalism in the first place--that so long as these very "fundamental" beliefs relating the the Faith of Christ are adhered to and agreed upon, you can believe whatever else you want.

[Criada]

I used to think I was an ultra conservation (or that's what a liberal friend said) until the changes here at CF. I must be more on the fence.

For me being a conservative meant the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible, that it was God breathed and that the traditions of those going on before me were pretty much adhered to.

I guess since I don't believe in exclusivity of this forum or anything on the internet I must be more liberal than I thought :scratch: Be that as it may, I would label myself as conservative.

Ok, I ramble....;)

Can I hang around with you guys anyway? :)
Welcome! :hug:

[Albion]

Can we agree to this--

A Conservative must be one who wants to conserve something?

Of course.

So that means that any important idea, any proposal for changing what has been with the church for a long time, can't be the conservative POV.

[MMXII]

Welcome! :hug:
Thank you sweetie. :hug:

[Macrina]

Labels like "conservative" and "liberal" are so hard to define. I have been called a fundamentalist for believing in the literal resurrection of Christ, and I have been called some names I won't repeat (but generally imply "liberal") because of my vocation. So for the most part, I define it relative to where other people are -- it's too hard to pin down exactly.

Theologically speaking, I think most people who know me IRL would describe me as conservative. This would primarily be due to a high view of scripture and the classicly evangelical position that Jesus Christ is the only Lord and that we are called to proclaim the Gospel to others. I am conservative in that I am not a relativist and not seeking to conform the church to societal norms.

Politically conservative is a whole different matter -- I don't agree with the entire platform of either of the major parties in my country, so I resist a label on that front.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Labels like "conservative" and "liberal" are so hard to define. I have been called a fundamentalist for believing in the literal resurrection of Christ, and I have been called some names I won't repeat (but generally imply "liberal") because of my vocation. So for the most part, I define it relative to where other people are -- it's too hard to pin down exactly.

Theologically speaking, I think most people who know me IRL would describe me as conservative. This would primarily be due to a high view of scripture and the classicly evangelical position that Jesus Christ is the only Lord and that we are called to proclaim the Gospel to others. I am conservative in that I am not a relativist and not seeking to conform the church to societal norms.

Politically conservative is a whole different matter -- I don't agree with the entire platform of either of the major parties in my country, so I resist a label on that front.
Well said Macrina...:thumbsup:

[Criada]

Don't know about the conservative part - but I would have thought that the Christian part would involve not picking on a sister in Christ to such an extent that she feels unable to enjoy fellowship here!
Am seriously considerinf whether I want to be a part of this.
:(

[Albion]

Labels like "conservative" and "liberal" are so hard to define. I have been called a fundamentalist for believing in the literal resurrection of Christ, and I have been called some names I won't repeat (but generally imply "liberal") because of my vocation. So for the most part, I define it relative to where other people are -- it's too hard to pin down exactly.

Theologically speaking, I think most people who know me IRL would describe me as conservative. This would primarily be due to a high view of scripture and the classicly evangelical position that Jesus Christ is the only Lord and that we are called to proclaim the Gospel to others. I am conservative in that I am not a relativist and not seeking to conform the church to societal norms.

Politically conservative is a whole different matter -- I don't agree with the entire platform of either of the major parties in my country, so I resist a label on that front.

Here's what it means on this forum:

Conservative Christians Forum


Conservative Christianity is defined by its allegiance to the Holy Scriptures and the traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christian Church on issues of theology and morality.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Here's what it means on this forum:

Conservative Christians Forum


Conservative Christianity is defined by its allegiance to the Holy Scriptures and the traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christian Church on issues of theology and morality.
I'm conservative but I wear makeup. Does that make me a liberal? :eek: Is it what's "traditional" to you that makes one conservative?

You're definition is flawed.

[Criada]

Here's what it means on this forum:

Conservative Christians Forum


Conservative Christianity is defined by its allegiance to the Holy Scriptures and the traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christian Church on issues of theology and morality.
If that is what it means , I'll have to go.
Will not, under any circumstances give "traditional beliefs and teachings" equal weight with scripture!!
Or indeed, any weight at all.

[Albion]

I'm conservative but I wear makeup. Does that make me a liberal? :eek: Is it what's "traditional" to you that makes one conservative?

You're definition is flawed.

Read the statement!

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Read the statement!
I have.

See...the problem with the statement is that some people go by the letter of the law and what the Bible calls "legalism". The "traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christians Church" are not always correct. This is a doctrinal issue...not a Biblical issue IMHO.

[GreenMunchkin]

Have worked out, it means staying absolutely true to God's Word, but doing it in love.

Love is so, so important.

[JimfromOhio]

I am conservative and this depends on someone's view. My views of conservative is not the same with others. To me, those who are not conservative are those who are teaching various forms of liberalism theology. Many Christian liberal thinkers have differed regarding their doctrines from their own perspective rather than God's perspective simply because of man's doctrines rather than truth. At the same time, I also oppose to legalism that some conservatives are promoting.

[Angel4Truth]

Conservative christian to me means that one believes Jesus Christ is God who came to die for our sins and rose again and this was a literal event and that we must literally receive this and confess ourselves sinners in order to be saved from our sins. There is no other way of salvation except through Jesus Christ as Lord. I believe the nicene creed says it pretty clearly.

The Bible is the the source of Gods revelations to man and basis for christian ethics and morality also - scripture is inerrant. Marriage is a union between one man and one woman and abortion is against God. The church is the body of all believers and responsible to govern itself with biblical principles in order to spread the gospel of Christ - edifiy and minister to other believers and further the kingdom of God.

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.

[talitha]

Conservative christian to me means that one believes Jesus Christ is God who came to die for our sins and rose again and this was a literal event and that we must literally receive this and confess ourselves sinners in order to be saved from our sins. There is no other way of salvation except through Jesus Christ as Lord. I believe the nicene creed says it pretty clearly.

The Bible is the the source of Gods revelations to man and basis for christian ethics and morality also - scripture is inerrant. Marriage is a union between one man and one woman and abortion is against God. The church is the body of all believers and responsible to govern itself with biblical principles in order to spread the gospel of Christ - edifiy and minister to other believers and further the kingdom of God.

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.
AMEN!
:clap:

[Lisa0315]

Have worked out, it means staying absolutely true to God's Word, but doing it in love.

Love is so, so important.

THAT should be in our Statement of Beliefs! You should go wiki that!

Lisa

[GreenMunchkin]

THAT should be in our Statement of Beliefs! You should go wiki that!

LisaThing is, someone would decide they disagree and wiki it out again. It's just not worth bothering :(

You're a lovely person. x

[Lisa0315]

Thing is, someone would decide they disagree and wiki it out again. It's just not worth bothering :(

You're a lovely person. x

Can I do it?

Lisa

[GreenMunchkin]

Can I do it?

LisaFor sure :) You're much more assertive than I am, so maybe it'll stick if you put it in there. :hug:

[Lisa0315]

I cannot find the wiki. Where did it go?

BTW, GreenM, you are very assertive when you need to be, LOL! :D

Lisa

[Lisa0315]

Hi GreenMunchkin,
It was already in the wiki and beautifully stated:

5) Truth and Love are both God's character. All truth can be expressed in love. When addressing others in the forum we should hold ourselves accountable to the belief that all people are created in God's image, and as such deserve a basic level of respect, regardless of their deeds. This is not meant to muzzle honest discourse or comment, but to remind that all truth, must be expressed in love. Therefore, Conservative Christians may not flame visitors but rather seek to reason with them with an attitude of service and love

[GreenMunchkin]

That really is beautiful :)

The question is, how do we enforce it?

[Lisa0315]

That really is beautiful :)

The question is, how do we enforce it?

With mods who "get it".

Lisa

[Lisa0315]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5740285-wiki-poll-opening-statement.html

[talitha]

Amen - I think that when a certain pair of people (who if I remember correctly only showed up when that thread was about to wind down) started posting on a certain thread, that's when things turned ugly. I suppose I should have reported them instead of hashing things out with them knowing they wouldn't listen to me. *blush*

[Lisa0315]

Amen - I think that when a certain pair of people (who if I remember correctly only showed up when that thread was about to wind down) started posting on a certain thread, that's when things turned ugly. I suppose I should have reported them instead of hashing things out with them knowing they wouldn't listen to me. *blush*

Well, the problem was when that certain pair of people were done, we had one very hurt person who left the forum. That is what we want to avoid, and if I had known about that Love Rule, I would have reported them myself.

Lisa

[Voegelin]

To me a Conservative Christian is somewhere between a Fundementalist and a Liberal. Meaning, we believe mostly the same doctrines as Fundies, but are cautious in forcing those beliefs on others. We believe in moderation rather than an extreme doctrine.

Are you suggesting "Fundies" have an extreme doctrine? Are you suggesting "Fundies" force their beliefs on others? Or simply that they are not "cautious" enough in "forcing" their beliefs on others? If so, where exactly do you see this? I am a conservative Christian. I am not a fundamentalist. I detect no coercion on the part of my fundamentalist Christian friends. I do voter registration and speak with fundamentalists on a regular basis. They witness to me. They invite me to their services. When I say my theology differs from theirs but I am glad they find fulfillment in their faith (and I am sincerely glad they do) that is the end of it.

As a Christian conservative, I am certainly not "somewhere between" a Fundamentalist and a Liberal. I am not halfway between Jonathan Edwards and William Ellery Channing. I'm not half way between Timothy Dwight and Thomas Paine.

I don't even see a spectrum here. I see a sharp divide. Liberals on one side, conservative on the other. Building the Kingdom of God on earth vs an acknowledgement the Kingdom is not of this world. Huey Long vs Alexandr Solzhenitsyn. Williams Jennings Bryan vs TS Eliot. 19th c Harvard Unitarianism and Frederic Henry Hedge's Germanic transcendentalisn vs Timothy Dwight's neo-Calvinist revival at Yale.

All of American history can be explained by this split (even cultural and economic marxism which both arose from Liberal Christianity and were a reaction against Conservative Christianity). These are not points on a line. They are distinctly different (yet complementary).

How each side goes about propagating their view is not unimportant but is not the central issue.

[Lisa0315]

Are you suggesting "Fundies" have an extreme doctrine? Are you suggesting "Fundies" force their beliefs on others? Or simply that they are not "cautious" enough in "forcing" their beliefs on others? If so, where exactly do you see this? I am a conservative Christian. I am not a fundamentalist. I detect no coercion on the part of my fundamentalist Christian friends. I do voter registration and speak with fundamentalists on a regular basis. They witness to me. They invite me to their services. When I say my theology differs from theirs but I am glad they find fulfillment in their faith (and I am sincerely glad they do) that is the end of it.

As a Christian conservative, I am certainly not "somewhere between" a Fundamentalist and a Liberal. I am not halfway between Jonathan Edwards and William Ellery Channing. I'm not half way between Timothy Dwight and Thomas Paine.

I don't even see a spectrum here. I see a sharp divide. Liberals on one side, conservative on the other. Building the Kingdom of God on earth vs an acknowledgement the Kingdom is not of this world. Huey Long vs Alexandr Solzhenitsyn. Williams Jennings Bryan vs TS Eliot. 19th c Harvard Unitarianism and Frederic Henry Hedge's Germanic transcendentalisn vs Timothy Dwight's neo-Calvinist revival at Yale.

All of American history can be explained by this split (even cultural and economic marxism which both arose from Liberal Christianity and were a reaction against Conservative Christianity). These are not points on a line. They are distinctly different (yet complementary).

How each side goes about propagating their view is not unimportant but is not the central issue.

Well, they have self-described as "militant orthodoxy" in their Statement of Beliefs. I think that is the dividing line in my opinion. My understanding of Conservative is NOT Militant, but speaking truth in love and compassion.

I do not want to make you mad at me. I saw your name and was excited to see you here. I have always thought very highly of you.

Lisa

[Voegelin]

Well, they have self-described as "militant orthodoxy" in their Statement of Beliefs. I think that is the dividing line in my opinion. My understanding of Conservative is NOT Militant, but speaking truth in love and compassion.

I do not want to make you mad at me. I saw your name and was excited to see you here. I have always thought very highly of you.

Lisa

I think highly of you too. I was delighted to see a fellow Protestant in OBOB. We both share an admiration for Catholicism. For years I had little interest in the faith. Not because of what it is, but because the only side I saw of it was from "progressive" Catholics, very liberal New England political figures who are Catholic and secularists and those of other faiths who are hostile to Catholicism. Oh yeah..I knew there was an unchanging core there but I thought it very small and a relic of the past. An ethnic/cultural thing. Few really believed that stuff (what "that stuff" was I only had the vaguest idea). So it was wonderful to come on the net and find an enormous number of very knowledgeable , very articulate and deeply religious Catholics.

To be frank, what bothered me about your comments was the wording. I have read and enjoyed what you write. I don't believe you are hostile to anyone. But in your comments above I detected some rhetoric about fundamentalists the media and the left hammers, sucessfully I believe, into the public day after day, month after month, year after year. The gloss Ralph Neas, Charles Schumer, Barry Lynn, Frank Rich, the Washington Post, PFAW, the ACLU etc puts on fundamentalists. They do the same to Catholics. Catholics are antisemitic. Catholics take orders from the Pope. Catholics judges will be theocrats. Catholics want to turn the clock back. The Inquisition...the Crusades....on and on and on...

Sure I've repeated some of this stuff myself. We hear it so often, regarding both Protestants and Catholics, it takes an effort not to.

I replied to you last night. Read it over, didn't like it and trashed what I spent an half an hour composing. Saw this thread this evening and thought...I have to say something about this.

If I offended or was overbearing I apologize. I view you as an ally. I hope you do me.

[Lisa0315]

I think highly of you too. I was delighted to see a fellow Protestant in OBOB. We both share an admiration for Catholicism. For years I had little interest in the faith. Not because of what it is, but because the only side I saw of it was from "progressive" Catholics, very liberal New England political figures who are Catholic and secularists and those of other faiths who are hostile to Catholicism. Oh yeah..I knew there was an unchanging core there but I thought it very small and a relic of the past. An ethnic/cultural thing. Few really believed that stuff (what "that stuff" was I only had the vaguest idea). So it was wonderful to come on the net and find an enormous number of very knowledgeable , very articulate and deeply religious Catholics.

To be frank, what bothered me about your comments was the wording. I have read and enjoyed what you write. I don't believe you are hostile to anyone. But in your comments above I detected some rhetoric about fundamentalists the media and the left hammers, sucessfully I believe, into the public day after day, month after month, year after year. The gloss Ralph Neas, Charles Schumer, Barry Lynn, Frank Rich, the Washington Post, PFAW, the ACLU etc puts on fundamentalists. They do the same to Catholics. Catholics are antisemitic. Catholics take orders from the Pope. Catholics judges will be theocrats. Catholics want to turn the clock back. The Inquisition...the Crusades....on and on and on...

Sure I've repeated some of this stuff myself. We hear it so often, regarding both Protestants and Catholics, it takes an effort not to.

I replied to you last night. Read it over, didn't like it and trashed what I spent an half an hour composing. Saw this thread this evening and thought...I have to say something about this.

If I offended or was overbearing I apologize. I view you as an ally. I hope you do me.

Oh, of course. I didn't take offense. I was afraid that you had, and I was at the very least borderline.

My, (well, the only true word for it is "hostility"), but my hostility towards Fundementalist stems from the fact that I am in the heart of the Bible Belt. I live it every day. I attend church with some. I know of what I speak. Now, that does not mean that every single fundie on this board is militant or "in your face". However, there is a culture of militant Christianity within fundementalism that I am very, very familiar with. It is this "angry Christianity" that drove me away for 23 years. I am back only by the grace of God, and only because one fundie out of the thousands I know was loving towards me. Nope, that thousands is not figurative. It is literal. I have three fundemental Baptist preachers in the family. I have met every well known fundementalist preacher out there. I know fundementalists all across this country. I am not just in the heart of the Bible Belt. I am part of the inner circle.

So, while what I say may be shocking and harsh, it is only with a bitten tongue that I write what I say. This means I could tell you far more than I have. I am standing in this congregation as a warning. I am not doing it out of hatred towards fundies, although, it may certainly seem that way. I am doing it out of love for those who may be hurt by "Angry Christianity".

Lisa

[Joykins]

I'm finding this thread very interesting. I'm conscious of my status as a guest here, but I hope you don't mind the intrusion.

Historically, fundamentalism arose as a response to classic Liberal theology--the mostly-German theologians of the 19th and early 20th centuries who, taking their cue from academia rather than religion, formed a theology that was as much or more informed by higher criticism and the natural sciences. In response, the fundamentalist movement fired back, "Um, no, there ARE fundamentals you have to believe that define Christianity." These were the Virgin Birth, the Miracles, the Inspiration and Inerrancy of Scripture, the literal Resurrection, literal Heaven/Hell, and probably a few other things I have forgotten since I'm not looking it up now. These fundamentalist beliefs became ingrained in a culture that was generally "in the world but not of it" and fairly legalistic and rigid in its approach--I remember as a child the discussons about whether it would be OK to dance or play cards or drink alcohol. And the other side calling all this "legalism." I've also read some studies identifying this general fundamentalist *culture* with premillenial dispensationalism. But all these things may exist separately.

It's no accident that the word "conservative" has "conserve" as a root--the conservative believes strongly in the traditions and teachings that their particular tradition has maintained over the years. These may include creeds, church governance structures, and views on scripture and the nature of truth. As the statement of faith being formulated for this forum demonstrates, there is also a conservative position on life and end-of-life issues which also tends to support a traditional viewpoint or what (liberal theologian) Borg calls "the conventional wisdom." [side note: Borg notices threads of both "conventional wisdom" and "unconventional wisdom" both present in the Bible and I have to agree with this analysis. My perception is that conservatives tend to identify strongly with the "conventional wisdom" aspect but tend to balance it better with the "unconventional wisdom" than as fundamentalists do.]

My own views are liberal in some respects and conservative in others. My church and personal life are very conservative, but I have come to believe that the life of radical obedience Jesus is calling me to often means to break with "conventional wisdom." At any rate, I hope this rambling helps clarify the questions you guys are discussing, if only by the tiniest little bit.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

:wave: Hi Joykins...welcome! :) Nice to see you here!

Thank you for your input. :thumbsup:

[talitha]

Joykins, thank you very much for your post! it does clarify some things..... my, what I forget over twenty-or-so years since I took church history.......

bless you
tal

(PS - I do love Leonard Cohen - he's a mess, but he's an artistic mess.....)

[Joykins]

:wave: This forum is very interesting. I hope y'all don't mind if I respectfully hang out :)

[PaladinGirl]

To me a conservative is someone who believes the Bible is infallible, believes in the Nicene Creed or the contents therein, is pro-life at least to a certain extent, is against homosexual acts and the homosexual agenda, and who is against euthanasia for humans.

[talitha]

To me a conservative is someone who believes the Bible is infallible, believes in the Nicene Creed or the contents therein, is pro-life at least to a certain extent, is against homosexual acts and the homosexual agenda, and who is against euthanasia for humans.
I can agree with that!

[PaladinGirl]

I can agree with that!
Cool beans! :cool:

[McWilliams]

A great read on this topic is 'Christianity and Liberalism' by J. Gresham Machen. It reveals how Liberalism is a 'religion' of its own and no where near christianity.

Great reviews here: http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Liberalism-J-Gresham-Machen/dp/0802811213/ref=sr_1_2/102-9053906-5490527?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185076902&sr=1-2

[Angel4Truth]

Lisa, your description of conservative being between fundamentalist and liberal, would actually describe moderate belief, not conservative belief imo.

Fundamentalist simply means one who holds to the belief that scripture is without error and fundamental to the christian faith but some people take that further as well into certain bible versions only and extreme literalism. Actually those would be ultra conservative.

[Joykins]

Conservative is a position relative to your tradition, also. Conservative Catholics will agree with conservative Baptists on life/end-of-life issues and Christian basics, but may strongly disagree on other theological issues. Conservative Anabaptists may believe in passive nonresistance or other nonviolent/peace stances, which other traditions classify as a liberal belief. If you want to look at it that way, fundamentalist can be an (ultra?) conservative form of evangelical protestant Christianity.

[talitha]

fundamentalist can be an (ultra?) conservative form of evangelical protestant Christianity.
that is generally how I look at it - and I don't identify as a fundamentalist to some extent because I am Charismatic.

[PaladinGirl]

that is generally how I look at it - and I don't identify as a fundamentalist to some extent because I am Charismatic.
Charismatics can be Fundamentalists too you know. I was one once.

[Iosias]

C.S. Lewis was Anglican. :)

So am I :)

[Iosias]

Charismatics can be Fundamentalists too you know. I was one once.

Indeed the largest segment of fundamentalists are in fact Charismatic.

[Iosias]

Am sort of confused as to what it means to people... both theologically, in terms of your faith, and whether it does have an inherent link with your political viewpoint?

Really interested, because it's only relatively recently I realised am "conservative", so am still exploring that a bit and going "Ooh!" a lot :)

Thenk you veddy much :hug:

Politically I am a High Tory.

Conservative theologically means someone who holds to the historic orthodox Christian faith.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

•Belief in Deity
Conservatives believe God is incorporeal, omnipresent spirit--a Trinity of the Father (God), the Son (Christ), and the Holy Spirit that comprises one God Almighty.

•Incarnations
Jesus Christ is God's only incarnation. He is the Son of God and God, both fully divine and fully human, part of the Trinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, which comprises one God Almighty.

•Origin of Universe and Life
The biblical book of Genesis is inerrant. God created the universe and all life forms from nothing in less than 7 days, less than 10,000 years ago--not as revealed by modern science. Many resolve the conflict between scientific evidence and the book of Genesis with the contention that God created the appearance of evolution (perhaps as a test of faith), or that scientific evidence is faulty.

•After Death
Saved souls experience the bliss of heaven and unsaved souls the torture of hell. On Judgment Day, Jesus Christ will resurrect the dead, reunite body and soul, and judge each for eternity in heaven, or on a restored, paradisiacal earth, or in hell. Some believe the souls of the dead will remain "asleep" until the resurrection and final judgment.

•Why Evil?
The original sin of Adam and Eve caused all to inherit sinfulness. Some Conservatives believe that only relatively few people will be saved. The work and influence of Satan prevail among the unsaved and/or those who lack complete faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

•Salvation
Salvation is granted by the grace of God alone, through faith in Jesus Christ alone as Lord and Savior--not through "works" such as moral behavior, good deeds, and generally not through sacraments. Some believe that once saved, or born again, always saved. Many Conservatives regard baptism, when performed, as a practice for adult believers, rather than infants/children, as it is not considered a sacrament for salvation but an act of commitment to the fellowship. However, some churches do regard certain sacraments as very important components on the path to salvation (e.g. Evangelical Lutheran Church of America), including infant baptism, regarding baptism as a miracle from God that creates faith in the heart. Some Protestants regard baptism as a washing away of sin, which may be repeated. Among most, confession/repentance is considered personal, between the individual and God, unless a public sin is involved, and confession to a pastor, when offered, is optional. Some use exorcism to remove indwelling evil spirits. Pentecostalists believe that speaking in tongues is a gift from God as evidence of having been born again, and some regard it as the only evidence of having been born again. Preaching the gospel, the Word of God, is often regarded as a means for building faith in Christ.

•Undeserved Suffering
Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. Also, Satan rules the earth, causing pain and suffering. Many believe that suffering is God's design to test, teach, or strengthen belief in Him; the greater the suffering of innocent believers, the greater will be their reward after life.

•Contemporary Issues
Abortion is considered murder. Positions among denominations on divorce vary from unacceptability of divorce and remarriage to acceptance of divorce in certain situations and remarriage.

[CyberPaladin]

•Belief in Deity
Conservatives believe God is incorporeal, omnipresent spirit--a Trinity of the Father (God), the Son (Christ), and the Holy Spirit that comprises one God Almighty.

•Incarnations
Jesus Christ is God's only incarnation. He is the Son of God and God, both fully divine and fully human, part of the Trinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, which comprises one God Almighty.

•Origin of Universe and Life
The biblical book of Genesis is inerrant. God created the universe and all life forms from nothing in less than 7 days, less than 10,000 years ago--not as revealed by modern science. Many resolve the conflict between scientific evidence and the book of Genesis with the contention that God created the appearance of evolution (perhaps as a test of faith), or that scientific evidence is faulty.

•After Death
Saved souls experience the bliss of heaven and unsaved souls the torture of hell. On Judgment Day, Jesus Christ will resurrect the dead, reunite body and soul, and judge each for eternity in heaven, or on a restored, paradisiacal earth, or in hell. Some believe the souls of the dead will remain "asleep" until the resurrection and final judgment.

•Why Evil?
The original sin of Adam and Eve caused all to inherit sinfulness. Some Conservatives believe that only relatively few people will be saved. The work and influence of Satan prevail among the unsaved and/or those who lack complete faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

•Salvation
Salvation is granted by the grace of God alone, through faith in Jesus Christ alone as Lord and Savior--not through "works" such as moral behavior, good deeds, and generally not through sacraments. Some believe that once saved, or born again, always saved. Many Conservatives regard baptism, when performed, as a practice for adult believers, rather than infants/children, as it is not considered a sacrament for salvation but an act of commitment to the fellowship. However, some churches do regard certain sacraments as very important components on the path to salvation (e.g. Evangelical Lutheran Church of America), including infant baptism, regarding baptism as a miracle from God that creates faith in the heart. Some Protestants regard baptism as a washing away of sin, which may be repeated. Among most, confession/repentance is considered personal, between the individual and God, unless a public sin is involved, and confession to a pastor, when offered, is optional. Some use exorcism to remove indwelling evil spirits. Pentecostalists believe that speaking in tongues is a gift from God as evidence of having been born again, and some regard it as the only evidence of having been born again. Preaching the gospel, the Word of God, is often regarded as a means for building faith in Christ.

•Undeserved Suffering
Some suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality originating from Adam and Eve's disobedience to God, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. Also, Satan rules the earth, causing pain and suffering. Many believe that suffering is God's design to test, teach, or strengthen belief in Him; the greater the suffering of innocent believers, the greater will be their reward after life.

•Contemporary Issues
Abortion is considered murder. Positions among denominations on divorce vary from unacceptability of divorce and remarriage to acceptance of divorce in certain situations and remarriage.

Wonderful job suming about what conservatives general beliefs are and the common variations.

Hi Peacelover02 glad to see you made it over here.

[Lisa0315]

I am not sure that I agree with a literal Genesis account. I really have no opinion one way or the other except that God did it.

Also, there is nothing regarding homosexuality.

Lisa

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

I am not sure that I agree with a literal Genesis account. I really have no opinion one way or the other except that God did it.

Also, there is nothing regarding homosexuality.

Lisa
Well, it's not an all inclusive list...just something to go on. Can always be added to. :)

[GreenMunchkin]

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe in a literal Genesis interpretation, either. I just don't see how the universe can only be 12,000 years old. A day to God could be hundreds of thousands of years... mind you, something just occurred to me. If it's not literal, why do we have the Sabbath? :scratch:

Ack, Lisa, you're right. God done it. Beyond that, DO NOT WANT.

[JimfromOhio]

Literal to me is based on the calculations based upon the genealogies of Genesis that the earth is about 10,000 years old.

Literal on Sabbath....
1. Grace versus Legalism in Sabbath
2. Method of Sabbath system
3. Obedience versus heart
4. Heart versus action
5. Much more.

I have learned and believe that the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances were ceremonial. The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.

[CyberPaladin]

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe in a literal Genesis interpretation, either. I just don't see how the universe can only be 12,000 years old. A day to God could be hundreds of thousands of years... mind you, something just occurred to me. If it's not literal, why do we have the Sabbath? :scratch:

Ack, Lisa, you're right. God done it. Beyond that, DO NOT WANT.

GreenMunchkin my advice remember God is the omnipent being that created the Unvirse and don't over think things you do you will drive yourself crazy.

[Izdaari]

GreenMunchkin my advice remember God is the omnipent being that created the Unvirse and don't over think things you do you will drive yourself crazy.
That's pretty much my approach to it. God created the universe, and I happen to think He probably did it via the Big Bang. I also think He probably created life on Earth by means of evolution. But I'm not greatly concerned about it. By whatever means, He did create it and we are here. We'll know the full truth... or at least, a whole lot more of it, in Heaven. In the meantime, God is not limited to what we can conceive of.

[CyberPaladin]

That's pretty much my approach to it. God created the universe, and I happen to think He probably did it via the Big Bang. I also think He probably created life on Earth by means of evolution. But I'm not greatly concerned about it. By whatever means, He did create it and we are here. We'll know the full truth... or at least, a whole lot more of it, in Heaven. In the meantime, God is not limited to what we can conceive of.

Actaully I would say we have rather sighficant differences since I believe he formed it in 7 days and earth is only maybe 20,000 years old tops.

[Izdaari]

Actaully I would say we have rather sighficant differences since I believe he formed it in 7 days and earth is only maybe 20,000 years old tops.
Right, we differ on that. But how much does it matter? Whatever you or I believe about it, we're still here and God still made it all, by whatever means.

[JimfromOhio]

The Word of God says He created in 6 days, so my faith is to follow what He said. Just as Jesus was resurrected on the third day, so my faith is to follow what the Word of God says. God's time is different than our time, the main point is that God said He created in 6 days so we should believe what HE SAID and not debate about it.

While I believe in literal at the same time the Bible did mention that God's time is not the same as our time. All I do at this point is believe what He said whether it is literal or someone's interpration of God's time, God did it in 6 days now matter how you look at it.

As God said:"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,' declares the LORD. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.' "

Isaiah 55:8-9 Evolution make me wonder why people are following what Science says rather than what God says.

I guess the concept evolution or a "reasoning view of creation" are winning since people are view the Bible is as nothing but a book.

[CyberPaladin]

Right, we differ on that. But how much does it matter? Whatever you or I believe about it, we're still here and God still made it all, by whatever means.
Izdaari I agree with the sentiment that niether of us is going to convince the that they're. But I would say that whether God intended a particular portion of scripture to be literal or mephatoric does matter alot.

The Word of God says He created in 6 days, so my faith is to follow what He said. Just as Jesus was resurrected on the third day, so my faith is to follow what the Word of God says. God's time is different than our time, the main point is that God said He created in 6 days so we should believe what HE SAID and not debate about it.

While I believe in literal at the same time the Bible did mention that God's time is not the same as our time. All I do at this point is believe what He said whether it is literal or someone's interpration of God's time, God did it in 6 days now matter how you look at it.

As God said:"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,' declares the LORD. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.' "

Isaiah 55:8-9 Evolution make me wonder why people are following what Science says rather than what God says.

I guess the concept evolution or a "reasoning view of creation" are winning since people are view the Bible is as nothing but a book.
:amen: :amen:

[Izdaari]

Izdaari I agree with the sentiment that niether of us is going to convince the that they're. But I would say that whether God intended a particular portion of scripture to be literal or mephatoric does matter alot.
It surely does, for some particular portions of scripture. I'm not so sure it does for Genesis 1. Literal or metaphoric for that one seems to lack practical consequence.

Anyway, my view on creation and evolution is the orthodox Catholic view, and thus the conservative Catholic view. But I'm not Catholic? True, but on many issues, including this one, I agree with them. If Catholicism didn't have such a large element of salvation by works, which in my view is utterly bogus, I might well be one. But of course that's a very big issue, the same one that set Martin Luther off.

[CyberPaladin]

It surely does, for some particular portions of scripture. I'm not so sure it does for Genesis 1. Literal or metaphoric for that one seems to lack practical consequence.



I would say it does have serious consequences in the sense that I personaly believe this is one of Satan's most dangerous trick confusing Christians on what is really meant by scriptures.

[talitha]

CONTINUED FROM THE WOMEN IN MINISTRY THREAD:

I've put you on the defense again...... I'm sorry, Albion, I didn't mean that in a mean way, but it sure looks like I did now that I read your response. I had given up on this thread - just thought I needed to practice what I preached about "agreeing to disagree" - and then - whoops! - I slipped up.....

This thread was a very interesting one - we've all showed more of our true colors than we probably would like to have shown - the problems with the CCF have come out, particularly the fact that we all define "conservative" differently and expect everyone else to go by our defnition.......

not sure what to do about that.....
blessings anyway be upon you and yours
tal
Yes, I am a conservative and would love the forum to be a place where conservatives are not deliberately made to feel on the defensive for posting conservative viewpoints. There's already been at least one poster who felt chased away for that precise reason--made to feel unwelcome for being conserative and posting conservative Christian thoughts on an allegedly conservative forum.

Even if some here would like a broader meaning for "conservative" than Webster gives us, they ought to be able to see that to uphold the customary and usual Christian view can in no way be UNconservative, can't they?

Albion, I believe that the meaning of the word "conservative" needs to be broader than our individual definitions of it so that this doesn't end up being a forum that keeps more and more people out.

When I originally wrote the Wiki, I made a very firm stand about Jesus's power to restore "homosexuals", and "Colabomb" differed with me. I did not feel that his stance on that issue was a conservative one, but I allowed his viewpoint, because I realized that I needed to choose my battles. He was not saying homosexuality was okay, just that some people may never be delivered and would need to spend their entire lives celibate in order to be at least outwardly compliant with Christian practice, whereas I was saying that it is God's will that everyone be fully set right from the inside out.....

many blessings
tal

[Codger]

I wish someone would define it for me because it is so complex that one definition will not cover all examples. One person thought it meant to conserve the Word - that is to take it simply as it is written. If this is the case conservatism is a misnomer and would better be defined as "Literalism."

Literalism is practiced by Dispensationalists in particular. They take the book of Revelation as literal as possible despite the fact that this book is written in signs symbols and tokens. In other words a "Conservative" (literalist) would say that the 1,000 years is a period of time of 1,000 years long and not a symbol for a very long period of time. Babylon is Babylon instead of a symbol of Rome. 666 is a literal number and not a symbol of Nero. So if you exegete nero using numerology to come up with the meaning of 666 and do not accept it literally - you are then a liberal?

[Voegelin]

Oh, of course. I didn't take offense. I was afraid that you had, and I was at the very least borderline.

Good! That's finished then!

My, (well, the only true word for it is "hostility"), but my hostility towards Fundementalist stems from the fact that I am in the heart of the Bible Belt. I live it every day. I attend church with some. I know of what I speak. . . .So, while what I say may be shocking and harsh, it is only with a bitten tongue that I write what I say. This means I could tell you far more than I have . . .

This will be fun in here. My hostility (and like you, I will admit, that is what it is--hostility) toward liberal Christianity and socialism comes from the flip side of your experience. I was born into a Congregational church. My parents became Unitarians when I was 11. I live in one of the most liberal states in the country. Liberals on this forum think I bash them but, like you, I could say far more than I do. They also think I (and others) get this stuff from Fox News or Rush. Nothing could be further from the truth. I get my views directly from living inside the liberal establishment.

Guess we're both "reactionaries" eh? :thumbsup:

[GreenMunchkin]

Did anyone else not even know *know* they were a conservative/liberal Christian before joining this site? Before CF, I just had myself down as "Christian" :(

[Voegelin]

Did anyone else not even know *know* they were a conservative/liberal Christian before joining this site? Before CF, I just had myself down as "Christian" :(

That is why I prefer to say I am a Christian who is a conservative rather than a conservative Christian.

[GreenMunchkin]

That is why I prefer to say I am a Christian who is a conservative rather than a conservative Christian.What is it about CF that forces people to take on one of those labels? Or is it that way for all internet forums? In real life, you don't join a church and have to choose which you are. It just never comes up. In England, anyway. It seriously sucks that we have to here. What's the dealio?

[Voegelin]

We have more diversity in America

[Hishandmaiden]

I didn't know I am a conservative until I come here. :)

[Albion]

What is it about CF that forces people to take on one of those labels? Or is it that way for all internet forums? In real life, you don't join a church and have to choose which you are. It just never comes up. In England, anyway. It seriously sucks that we have to here. What's the dealio?

I think the dealio may be that religious liberalism or modernism has so taken over most mainline denominations in the USA, that to be an ordinary Christian believing what almost every Christian church a century ago did is to make one feel he has to stand out and stand up for the faith, hence a distinguishing label.

[talitha]

Agreeing with Albion here.... :O

Except that on many issues I would go back much farther than a century...... ;)

[Joykins]

Good! That's finished then!



This will be fun in here. My hostility (and like you, I will admit, that is what it is--hostility) toward liberal Christianity and socialism comes from the flip side of your experience. I was born into a Congregational church. My parents became Unitarians when I was 11. I live in one of the most liberal states in the country. Liberals on this forum think I bash them but, like you, I could say far more than I do. They also think I (and others) get this stuff from Fox News or Rush. Nothing could be further from the truth. I get my views directly from living inside the liberal establishment.

Guess we're both "reactionaries" eh? :thumbsup:

You are David Horowitz and I claim my $5 ^_^

[CyberPaladin]

I think the dealio may be that religious liberalism or modernism has so taken over most mainline denominations in the USA, that to be an ordinary Christian believing what almost every Christian church a century ago did is to make one feel he has to stand out and stand up for the faith, hence a distinguishing label.
:amen: :amen: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Voegelin]

You are David Horowitz and I claim my $5 ^_^

Never agreed with them politically as Horowitz did but I did know a few panthers. Their Breakfast for Kids program was pretty good. Horowitz was a cradle communist but I can see how others were sucked in by the New Left and its affiliates.

[Izdaari]

That is why I prefer to say I am a Christian who is a conservative rather than a conservative Christian.
Aye, and I am a Christian who is a neolibertarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolibertarianism). That's not the same thing as a Christian who is a conservative, but there's a fair bit of common ground.

I'm also a Horowitz fan. Of course he and I disagree on a few issues, but I find him a delight to read. Like you and unlike Horowitz, I was never on the left, was never at all attracted to it. When I first became politically aware it was as a conservative, but the more theory I read, the more libertarian I became... at one point a Randian/Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist. With age and more experience of the real world, I've drifted back towards the conservative side, but still only so far as conservative libertarian.

[Joykins]

Oh, well I am a Christian who is pretty much a social libertarian and an economic FDR-style liberal when it comes to public policy although my personal behavior and opinions tend toward the conservative. I have extremely ambivalent views towards authoritarian power structures including religious ones. My outlook is generally moderate in that I believe that extremism and excessive dogmatism should be avoided.

I find Horowitz interesting but he is someone who went from one extreme to another.

[LovesEnduringPromise]

Conservative to me means doing/ believing what the bible says....
Modest dress(no bathing suits, short skirts/shorts, revealing tops, lots of jewlery, lots of makeup, covering up breasts, butt, stomach, thighs fully)
Modest language(no swearing/cursing, foul jokes about anything sexual, violent, drug/alcohol etc)
No looking at porn, obeying 10 commandments, reading the bible.....list goes on

[Albion]

Oh, well I am a Christian who is pretty much a social libertarian and an economic FDR-style liberal when it comes to public policy although my personal behavior and opinions tend toward the conservative.


Well, no offense intended at all, but this is exactly why we have to have some definition around here. A liberal on social, economic, and public policy who, however, is "conservative" in personal behavior doesn't represent what "Conservative Christian" suggests. The title either means a conservative who is also a Christian or a Christian who is conservative in his or her values and approach to the Bible. That's what it normally means.

[Nicki4Christ]

I very seldom post at CF. But since seeing this sub-forum I am very happy to see Christians who believe with all their heart that the bible is the infallible word of God. "We have a more sure word of testimony, a rock of truth upon which we rest, for our infallible standard lies in, "It is written." The Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible, is our religion"

I am conservative, but I do not wear that as a rigid label. I believe God is a God of justice, and I also believe God is a God of compassion. I believe I also need to be compassionate and loving. I believe that we as Christians should not judge others, and we should forgive so that we may be forgiven (Luke 6:37). Therefore as a conservative Christian there is a great need for balance.

I believe in a one man one woman marriage (1Cor. 6:9-10) and (1Cor. 7:2) I do not believe in adultery, I do not believe it is even remotely okay, this for me, applies to pornography (Mat. 5:28) I do not believe in abortion.
However, how do I balance these firm statements with the calling to love and show compassion?

I really don’t know if this makes me conservative, by someone else’s definition, but I feel I can relate to the posts in this section. I am pretty new to CF, I almost did not stay after the changes on 7-07-07. I feel a fellowship here. And I feel comfortable posting here as this is really only my second or third thought provoking post.

If you see me lurking in a thread, and I pop away with no comment, know I am digesting what I read, and would like to put my thoughts together before I post. I have dyslexia and its really hard to type my thoughts out. Now if I could talk to you guys in person , It would be a different scenario.;)

[magdiel]

Hello Nicki :wave: Nice to meet you and welcome to this forum!

[CyberPaladin]

Hello Nicki welcome to the forum.:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:
You sound like nice solid conservative to me at least.
Just keep in there is a CCC fellowship thread here also if feel like chatting without debating.

[Lisa0315]

Good! That's finished then!



This will be fun in here. My hostility (and like you, I will admit, that is what it is--hostility) toward liberal Christianity and socialism comes from the flip side of your experience. I was born into a Congregational church. My parents became Unitarians when I was 11. I live in one of the most liberal states in the country. Liberals on this forum think I bash them but, like you, I could say far more than I do. They also think I (and others) get this stuff from Fox News or Rush. Nothing could be further from the truth. I get my views directly from living inside the liberal establishment.

Guess we're both "reactionaries" eh? :thumbsup:

Yep!!! :thumbsup:

Lisa

[Joykins]

Well, no offense intended at all, but this is exactly why we have to have some definition around here. A liberal on social, economic, and public policy who, however, is "conservative" in personal behavior doesn't represent what "Conservative Christian" suggests. The title either means a conservative who is also a Christian or a Christian who is conservative in his or her values and approach to the Bible. That's what it normally means.

I never said I was a Conservative Christian. I post in fellowship here only.

I enjoy the company of conservative Christians; I grew up one; I'm married to one; and I attend a church full of 'em. I hope it's not a problem if I hang out as long as I don't debate.

[LovesEnduringPromise]

I very seldom post at CF. But since seeing this sub-forum I am very happy to see Christians who believe with all their heart that the bible is the infallible word of God. "We have a more sure word of testimony, a rock of truth upon which we rest, for our infallible standard lies in, "It is written." The Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible, is our religion"

I am conservative, but I do not wear that as a rigid label. I believe God is a God of justice, and I also believe God is a God of compassion. I believe I also need to be compassionate and loving. I believe that we as Christians should not judge others, and we should forgive so that we may be forgiven (Luke 6:37). Therefore as a conservative Christian there is a great need for balance.

I believe in a one man one woman marriage (1Cor. 6:9-10) and (1Cor. 7:2) I do not believe in adultery, I do not believe it is even remotely okay, this for me, applies to pornography (Mat. 5:28) I do not believe in abortion.
However, how do I balance these firm statements with the calling to love and show compassion?

I really don’t know if this makes me conservative, by someone else’s definition, but I feel I can relate to the posts in this section. I am pretty new to CF, I almost did not stay after the changes on 7-07-07. I feel a fellowship here. And I feel comfortable posting here as this is really only my second or third thought provoking post.

If you see me lurking in a thread, and I pop away with no comment, know I am digesting what I read, and would like to put my thoughts together before I post. I have dyslexia and its really hard to type my thoughts out. Now if I could talk to you guys in person , It would be a different scenario.;)
Hi there. I am in total agreement with you!

[Voegelin]

When I first became politically aware it was as a conservative, but the more theory I read, the more libertarian I became... at one point a Randian/Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist. With age and more experience of the real world, I've drifted back towards the conservative side, but still only so far as conservative libertarian.


An interesting progression! A historical niche I'm interested in is New England Federalist congregationalism. Neo-Calvinists many of them (Timothy Dwight at Yale for instance) but also free market types horrified by Shay's Rebellion and the attempts to rig the market by inflating the currency and making debts payable in . . . among other things . . . hogs and corn. Oddly enough, or perhaps not so oddly, many modern Libertarian critiques of figures such as Fisher Ames are that the Federalists spoiled everything by demanding structural safeguards--moral in nature and based on their faith-- against those who would loot the property of others.

In other words, the people who wrote the book on looting (Atlas Shrugged) shrug their shoulders when it comes to enacting laws to stop it. That would be imposing a moral code on people....

[Albion]

In other words, the people who wrote the book on looting (Atlas Shrugged) shrug their shoulders when it comes to enacting laws to stop it. That would be imposing a moral code on people....

Sorry, but that doesn't even make sense. The "looters" would be the Socialists, and the Objectivists, i.e. Atlas Shrugged, the ethical force in opposition (along with Libertarians and Conservatives).

[Albion]

I never said I was a Conservative Christian. I post in fellowship here only.

I enjoy the company of conservative Christians; I grew up one; I'm married to one; and I attend a church full of 'em. I hope it's not a problem if I hang out as long as I don't debate.

Well, I didn't say anything about writing rules that include the line, "Joykins can't post here."

I said that we have a problem so long as we don't have a definition.

That would apply to any forum. Not everyone is as willing as you to do the honorable thing and post an occasional fellowship message; many want to debate under the cloak of "who say's I'm not a Conservative Christian." Obviously, if we've never written up a statement that answers the question, anyone can say that.

[talitha]

Please see the thread "comparison of mindsets". This expresses a concern I have regarding defining "conservative".

[Albion]

Please see the thread "comparison of mindsets". This expresses a concern I have regarding defining "conservative".

OK. I read it and found that whatever you dislike you have labelled "conservative" just like Jim from Ohio.

But there IS a meaning to the word and I can't understand why people want instead to use it as a perjorative instead. Why don't you just call the Thessalonians "Fascists" or "Obstructionists" and let us here come together for the Christian faith as something that has real meaning instead of whatever each person wants it to be?

[JimfromOhio]

OK. I read it and found that whatever you dislike you have labelled "conservative" just like Jim from Ohio.

But there IS a meaning to the word and I can't understand why people want instead to use it as a perjorative instead. Why don't you just call the Thessalonians "Fascists" or "Obstructionists" and let us here come together for the Christian faith as something that has real meaning instead of whatever each person wants it to be?

Then I ask... what is Christian Conservative?

[Codger]

Here's what it means on this forum:

Conservative Christians Forum


Conservative Christianity is defined by its allegiance to the Holy Scriptures and the traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christian Church on issues of theology and morality.

You're never going to define "Conservative Christian" to anyone's satisfaction.

First of all who is "The" Christian Church. Pope Benedict just told us the answer.

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

So this would mean that I would have to follow the traditional teachings and beliefs of "the" Catholic Church. So when I say that I do not believe that the mother of Mary was a virgin then I am not a conservative but a liberal?

You cannot define "Conservative" because you have no standard belief system to apply it to - no absolute doctrinal standard.

[talitha]

OK. I read it and found that whatever you dislike you have labelled "conservative" just like Jim from Ohio.
Aux contraire, my dear brother...... I have been fighting for my right to be called "conservative"! I have felt that you have labelled "liberal" whatever you dislike.......

But there IS a meaning to the word and I can't understand why people want instead to use it as a perjorative instead.
I'm not using "conservative" as a "perjorative" - I'm using a scale of conservatism..... the Thessalonicans were wayyyy too far in that direction. Wow, you completely missed my point.....


Why don't you just call the Thessalonians "Fascists" or "Obstructionists" and let us here come together for the Christian faith as something that has real meaning instead of whatever each person wants it to be?
Some people would say that to be a conservative would necessarily mean to be a cessationist, for example. They want to "conserve" what they have spiritually and not let the Lord teach them or lead them in anything new. They insist to keep the KJV or 19th century hymns - that is conservatism to a fashion, and I think we should include such people in this forum - but not let them overrun the rest of us, like the Thessalonian Jews overran the Apostles.

is that clearer?

[Albion]

But just as some were saying "too broad" (that was your concern also, Jim), we heard this from the opposite direction (from post #109 in this thread)--

"Albion, I believe that the meaning of the word "conservative" needs to be broader "

[JimfromOhio]

But just as some were saying "too broad" (that was your concern also, Jim), we heard this from the opposite direction (from post #109 in this thread)--

"Albion, I believe that the meaning of the word "conservative" needs to be broader "



Conservative Christian Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Christian) So far, I have seen is similar to this.

[Albion]

Some people would say that to be a conservative would necessarily mean to be a cessationist, for example. They want to "conserve" what they have spiritually and not let the Lord teach them or lead them in anything new. They insist to keep the KJV or 19th century hymns - that is conservatism to a fashion, and I think we should include such people in this forum - but not let them overrun the rest of us, like the Thessalonian Jews overran the Apostles.

is that clearer?

Here are the mistakes in that paragraph:

1. What "some people say" should not tie our hands here. We are only after a decent statement of conservative Christianity so that we can have a forum. Mistaken idea about us should not determine what we are.

2. It is NOT a matter of different Bible interpretations. That is the problem YOUR proposed statement would saddle us with--not what is conservative but just a requirement that the poster refer to the Bible when saying where his ideas come from, whatever they are.

3. So what of the specific examples you gave: cessationism, KJV, 19th century hymns.

NOT ONE OF THESE WOULD HAVE A "CONSERVATIVE" PREFERENCE UNDER ANY ONE OF THE PROPOSALS THAT YOU SHOT DOWN. Liking old hymns and the KJV is a personal preference having nothing to do with the faith or Bible and not a matter of values, doctrine, or morality at all! Cessationism would be judged on its merits, not just a war of words.

I am getting the idea that you want to preclude anyone from holding a Bible view that is not yours being able to claim the the forum prefers theirs because of our title. OK, but if that is so, don't you realize that by offering us your proposals that have only "believe the Bible" as a definition of a CC, you are welcoming that, not restricting it!!

[Albion]

You cannot define "Conservative" because you have no standard belief system to apply it to - no absolute doctrinal standard.

With respect, what has been attempted is a definition that generally establishes a standard, not an absolute one. We could not have an absolute one, as you said, but what do those who are opposed to the statements that have been put up that try to include something that at least refers to conservative values and beliefs? They've offered one of these two as alternatives:

1. Whatever the poster says consevative means. or

2. Believing in the Bible.

Now what Christian is going to be left out with either of those?)

Having nothing--which is what we have--is not preferable to a pretty good statement IMO.

[talitha]

I am getting the idea that you want to preclude anyone from holding a Bible view that is not yours being able to claim the the forum prefers theirs because of our title.
Interesting, that is basically the same idea I'm getting about you.

[Lisa0315]

I do not see why this has to be so hard.

We have two definitive traits that separate us from Liberalism and Fundementalism.

We believe in the literal Word of God which separates us from Liberalism.

We do not believe in militant orthodoxy which separates us from Fundementalism.

We are Conservatives which means that we believe in delivering the fullness of truth from the literal Word of God with love and compassion.

It is not that hard. One cannot be both Liberal and Conservative, and one cannot be both Fundementalist and Conservative.

Lisa

[Albion]

Interesting, that is basically the same idea I'm getting about you.

Could you possibly work with me here, since you are the single most persistent opponent to including any reference to conservatism or traditional belefs and values in our statements?

I've answered almost every objection you have and tried to do so with thoroughlness, clarity, and often with examples. To that you really haven't said much except that you are uneasy about someone saying that they hold a different religious POV.

I'm more than willing to hear differences of opinion about KJV or cessationism; I just want to separate all of us, with all our differences on individual or trivial matters, from Christian Liberals.

Butyour proposal does not separate Conservative from Liberal Christians.

[talitha]

I agree with you, Lisa, on the liberal/conservative side.

but fundamentalists are conservatives too, like it or not.

[Lisa0315]

I agree with you, Lisa, on the liberal/conservative side.

but fundamentalists are conservatives too, like it or not.

I am sorry, but I simply do not agree. If it were true, then, there is no need for a separate Conservative forum.

There is an easy differential between Liberals and Conservatives/Fundementalists. There is a much finer line between Conservies and Fundies, but that line is there. In their own words, Fundies claim to be militant. I do not consider myself to be militant, and being in the inner circle of Fundementalist Baptist, trust me! There is a big difference between our two groups.

Lisa

[Albion]

I agree with you, Lisa, on the liberal/conservative side.

but fundamentalists are conservatives too, like it or not.

So what do you propose we do that would handle that?

[Albion]

I agree with you, Lisa, on the liberal/conservative side.

Talitha,

You said you agree wtih Lisa on the liberal/conservative side of her comments.

Here's your proposed statement. We know how liberal Christians are screened out in the Simon_Templar proposed statement. Please show us how they are by YOUR statement. Where in all these words are any that do that?

As conservative Christians we believe that the Truth exists completely outside of our understanding of it, and that God, from Whom procedes all Truth, has chosen to reveal Truth to mankind in His Word, aka the Bible, and to embody it first in His only begotten Son, Jesus, and then progressively in the Church, which is comprised of all who call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, submitting their lives to Him.

[talitha]

I live in a community where there are a lot of Mennonites, including some who drive in a horse and buggy and wear old-style clothing with bonnets for women, etc. These people, I would say, are fundamentalists. But they are not militant.

[JimfromOhio]

I live in a community where there are a lot of Mennonites, including some who drive in a horse and buggy and wear old-style clothing with bonnets for women, etc. These people, I would say, are fundamentalists. But they are not militant.

I agree. They are not Militants but rather the opposite.

I was an Anabaptist for years and lived in a community where there are alot of conservatives and Mennoites who have their own definition of "conservative".

[Albion]

I live in a community where there are a lot of Mennonites, including some who drive in a horse and buggy and wear old-style clothing with bonnets for women, etc. These people, I would say, are fundamentalists. But they are not militant.

But ARE they fundamentalists? Again, it's not just what any individual likes to call other people that matters. ARE THEY ACTUALLY FUNDAMENTALISTS?

According to the fundamentalist statement, no they are not! That's what Lisa was saying to you, I think.

But hey, the fundamentalists HAVE a statement, so we know what they stand for. We on the other hand, are all things to all people because we won't say we're conservative.

[CyberPaladin]

Guys personaly I have had about enough of the CF because of the labels I have been called in my time here everything from nonbeliever to biblethumper it's trying this has been going the entire time have been here the changes have made it more vocal.

[talitha]

Albion, the prevailing understanding of "truth" in Western culture today is that it is relative, and that what is "true for you" may not be "true for me". To my way of thinking, the Conservative Christian forum is all about opposing that prevailing understanding. I have said that over and over, in different ways - perhaps now you will understand.

blessings
tal

[Albion]

Albion, the prevailing understanding of "truth" in Western culture today is that it is relative, and that what is "true for you" may not be "true for me". To my way of thinking, the Conservative Christian forum is all about opposing that prevailing understanding. I have said that over and over, in different ways - perhaps now you will understand.

blessings
tal

I do understand. That is why I pointedly asked how any liberal CHRISTIANS would be separated out by your proposed statement for this forum.

You didn't answer that.

But of course, there is not a single word in your statment that rules a liberal who claims to be a Christian in some way or other, from being right at home here on a forum you still seem to think is going to be for conservative Christians. Of course, they all do, or almost all of them.

All that your statement rules out are atheists, pantheists, those who expressely reject the Bible, and members of other religions. That's fine, especially if you think a lot of them are going to come here.

But we have plenty of liberals posting and debating. They just say that they are Christian. That makes them eligible. In fact, there are plenty of churches that are part of ecumenical, mainstream protestantism, plus almost every cult that claims to be Christian.

Your answer, please?

[Albion]

Guys personaly I have had about enough of the CF because of the labels I have been called in my time here everything from nonbeliever to biblethumper it's trying this has been going the entire time have been here the changes have made it more vocal.

If we don't have a statement, that will happen to everyone sooner or later. It has happened to me before, if that's any consolation. When "whatever you want to call it" is our rule, this is inevitable.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

I do understand. That is why I pointedly asked how any liberal CHRISTIANS would be separated out by your proposed statement for this forum.

You didn't answer that.

But of course, there is not a single word in that statment that rules a liberal, who claims to be a Christian in some way or other, from being right at home here on a forum you still seem to think is going to be for conservative Christians.

All that your statement rules out is atheists, pantheists, and members of other religions. That's fine, especially if you think a lot of them are going to come here. But we have plenty of liberals posting and debating. They just say that they are Christian. In fact, there are plenty of churches that are part of ecumenical, mainstream protestantism, plus almost every cult that claims to be as Christian as you and me.

Your answer, please?
Perhaps we should include what we don't believe to better clarify the difference between conservative and liberal?

Or would that be too devisive? :scratch:

For example: We don't believe God condones abortion or euthanasia as they are in essence committing murder.

[JimfromOhio]

Perhaps we should include what we don't believe to better clarify the difference between conservative and liberal?

Or would that be too devisive?

Yes.. that would work. Right now, I am confused about the definition of "Conservative Christians" in this forum.

[Albion]

Yes.. that would work. Right now, I am confused about the definition of "Conservative Christians" in this forum.

There is no definition now. That is the problem. And we can't get one without people agreeing to work it through. To that extent, I'm very grateful that you and Lady T are concerned enough to address the issue.

[Albion]

Perhaps we should include what we don't believe to better clarify the difference between conservative and liberal?

Or would that be too devisive?

Not divisive at all IMO. In fact, it could be a stroke of genius.

What could be worse than we have now? We are stalemated. The divisiveness we have already is about 80% caused by there being no agreed-upon statement. It's the main topic. It's tended to cause personal rivalries. We almost never get to serious topics because we are still at the starting post.

Right up something if you have an idea, and let us see it. It could be the way out.

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

There is no definition now. That is the problem. And we can't get one without people agreeing to work it through. To that extent, I'm very grateful that you and Lady T are concerned enough to address the issue.

It can be difficult to come to a consensus with so many differing backgrounds/viewpoints. But I agree with Lisa that it shouldn't be as hard as we're making it. :doh: ^_^


We have two definitive traits that separate us from Liberalism and Fundementalism.

We believe in the literal Word of God which separates us from Liberalism.

We do not believe in militant orthodoxy which separates us from Fundementalism.

We are Conservatives which means that we believe in delivering the fullness of truth from the literal Word of God with love and compassion.

Lisa

This rings true to me and could be added to our definition of CC in my opinion. I think it further clarifies what most conservatives believe.

[CyberPaladin]

Perhaps we should include what we don't believe to better clarify the difference between conservative and liberal?

Or would that be too devisive? :scratch:

For example: We don't believe God condones abortion or euthanasia as they are in essence committing murder.
Lady I don't think we have a choice if we want to have any sort of real definition since we are trying to incorporate so many denominations. If we were talking about group that didn't spread such a wide spectrum l