In regards to being slain in the Spirit:

[jeolmstead]

In regards to being slain in the Spirit:

For my part I believe it to be a valid experience. I say this because it happened to my wife (Cathy) in our living room while I was praying for her once in 1982.

(At the time I didn’t even know there was such an experience)

Having said that, I can certainly understand why some would not accept it especially in light of the abuses and “Tom Foolery” associated with the practice.

I do not find a clear example of this in the bible, nor do I find that the word speaks against it.

Since I have some degree of personal experience with this I am not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water. I will concede however that the bath is very dirty and it is difficult at this point to grasp the infant therein.

John O.

[talitha]

Agreed. John, you seem to me to be the voice of reason around here. :)

[JAS4Yeshua]

Voice of reason? Is that a slap against me because I don't agree with it? No, I'm not offended, so don't think that, but I do realize that I appear to have been the only one who had brought up that topic until this point, so your comment would appear to have been directed towards me. ;)

I don't agree with the topic, but understand John's point. I personally feel it is a false manifestation, and that there are way too many abuses of it. I have brought up my view, and if others disagree with my view, that is fine. This forum is being defined, and its members are speaking up on what they think it should include. Don't dismiss me just because you don't agree with me on a topic. ;)

[NewSong]

Voice of reason? Is that a slap against me because I don't agree with it? No, I'm not offended, so don't think that, but I do realize that I appear to have been the only one who had brought up that topic until this point, so your comment would appear to have been directed towards me. ;)

I don't agree with the topic, but understand John's point. I personally feel it is a false manifestation, and that there are way too many abuses of it. I have brought up my view, and if others disagree with my view, that is fine. This forum is being defined, and its members are speaking up on what they think it should include. Don't dismiss me just because you don't agree with me on a topic. ;)
I disagree with you and believe that people do go down under the power of God and whether you call it slain in the spirit or what I don't really care but it happens and it has happened to me.

[cyberlizard]

i am not opposed to it, but when did anyone last see anyone fall forwards, where and when.

but there is loads of historical proof if you need it you just got to be bothered to look for it and often it is in academic works. not the bedtime reading books

[NewSong]

OOPS no one fell forward....sorry!
Although I have in the past.............goodness.
It happens all the time when the power of GOD IS operating. In fact, Sunday morning we had a lady who was so overwhelmed by the power of God she dropped because her legs could not hold her. My new found friend I have been taking to church dropped her first Sunday there and she didn't even know that this was something that happened. She was so hungry for God and His life and touch that she just swallowed up HIS word and truths and no one preaches or teaches it and yet she dropped. My legs have shook like jelly and the only reason I haven't dropped is because I sat down before it happened.

[Dave01]

It happens. Seen it at our Pentecostal church and also at a Methodist church.

[SirTimothy]

Would like to suggest that it's normal Charismatic belief to believe in the power of the Spirit being possible to overcome people (i.e. 'slain in the Spirit') however it is non-standard (and cultic) to believe that it MUST occur with the filling of the spirit.

[cyberlizard]

actually i know it happens, happened to me a few years ago in the town of sunderland in the UK (150 miles from my home).

The people who were there actually said the chairs in front moved as I went down. Not that I remember though. The speaker was a popular one by the name of Mike Bickle, though he was not so well known then.

The church, just as a by the way is the one that owns the satellite tv channel 'god tv' and 'god tv europe'

Steve

though that has only ever happened once and I have only ever seen it one other time amongst other people.

[JAS4Yeshua]

Would like to suggest that it's normal Charismatic belief to believe in the power of the Spirit being possible to overcome people (i.e. 'slain in the Spirit') however it is non-standard (and cultic) to believe that it MUST occur with the filling of the spirit.
I disagree that it is a normal Charismatic belief. Not all Charismatics agree with it. I for one, do not.

[cyberlizard]

i did not used to either, it was not until I was sure the historical evidence supported it I even gave it consideration.

so you can imagine the difficulty I had with the toronto blessing, people laughing like idiots, and making stupid animal noises.

but hey they are all to be found in the historical records even over the past 300 years. There just uncommon. Even the Wesley's mention them.

Steve

[SirTimothy]

I disagree that it is a normal Charismatic belief. Not all Charismatics agree with it. I for one, do not.
You disagree that the Spirit has the power to overcome someone and cause them to collapse as they experience his power? Being Slain in the Spirit isn't cultic at all--it's just people experiencing God in a different way. I certainly agree there seems to be a lot of trickery and fakery going around, but I know there has been times when I pray when the presence of God has forced me down onto my knees in awe...

[c1ners]

I didn't believe it either. I thought people were faking it. (and some still might have been) But then it happened to me. Stubborn me. I believe it now. It was wonderful. Almost like floating on a cloud.

[JAS4Yeshua]

"Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit" are two different things, IMO. I might be moved to my knees, or moved to raise my hands, or moved to bow my head. These are all fine. Slain in the Spirit, though, where people just fall over, start laughing uncontrollably, make unusual noises, etc. Those are things I disagree with.

[geetrue]

This forum is being defined, and its members are speaking up on what they think it should include. Don't dismiss me just because you don't agree with me on a topic. ;)


I promise not to dismiss you Jason ... where do I start. I've seen so much in the last twenty years that is both good and bad about this particular subject.

I've seen preachers just push the person down, I've seen people fall on each other with injuries even.

I've seen whole lines of people standing in front of a stage at a Rodney Howard Browne meeting just all fall down from one wave of Rodney's arm and hand.

I was on the side of the stage and no one knocked me down. No one fell into me and caused a chain reaction. I just simply fell collapsed.

I'm laying there on the floor wondering what happened. I tried to get up and I couldn't move any of my limbs. I looked and an angel was sitting on my stomach. I said, "Let me up" and he just shook his head and laughed at me. I was down for several minutes while the Holy Spirit ministered to me.

The day before that meeting in 1991 I was sitting in the same church with Rodney getting people all giglely and laughing. I put my arms around my chest and said he's not going to get me to do any of that.

He didn't either ... the Lord did.

I have many other testimonies of being slain in the Spirit. I'll share them later ... I have to go eat right now, but trust me I've been where you are Jason.

I won't dismiss you ...

[JAS4Yeshua]

I was actually more referring to the "voice of reason" comment with my response, but I appreciate you saying that. ;)

[NewSong]

GeeTrue:

You sound like me! I absolutely was one of those who was steadfast on my feet and was not going to be moved. In my brothers' church, they try to push you down and if you don't go down you are grieving the Spirit of God according to their pastoral staff.

I asked my brother if I had to go down and my brother said not unless God puts you down and that was what I thought too and so that is the way I dug in my heels.

Then on several different occasions between some of Rodney Howard-Browne's evangelists, Vineyard etc., I found out what it was all about. I had no intentions whatsoever of falling and I was going to stand up. I slid out of my chair and on to the floor and no one could pick me up because I was out and limp. Then one time we were asked to stand to our feet to close the service and I felt my body flying about 4 feet backwards like saul/Paul must have looked and landed I laughed because no one touched me and I was flying backwards and no one could catch me or nothing and then I though I was going to get up and that it was ridiculous but then I experienced the sweetest presence of God and never got up and God ministered to my hurting heart where no man could possibly say or do anything to help me. After God ministered to my heart, I got up and I heard God speak to me and say go to your family and minister to them. I saw my parents and my daughter distressed and so I got up and went and PRAISE GOD PRAISE GOD PRAISE GOD....right on time and God IS so good. There was horrible distress but I didn't fall into the horrible nightmare, God had ministered to me through HIS Spirit to minister to my family. THANK YOU JESUS!

[NewSong]

I didn't believe it either. I thought people were faking it. (and some still might have been) But then it happened to me. Stubborn me. I believe it now. It was wonderful. Almost like floating on a cloud.

You sound like me too

[c1ners]

You sound like me too

I had to laugh when I read your post because it sounded so much like me. I think that's one of the reasons why that pastor never liked me because I wouldn't "fake" it when be would give me that look and push as hard as he could on my forehead. I'd always cross my arms and lock my knees so I wouldn't fall.

But one day God said "I've had enough of this nonsense woman! I can do do this, and I will do this regardless if you like it or not!" And down I went, pride and all. :)

[zaksmummy]

I've got very mixed feelings about being slain in the spirit. My friend Lee crashed to the floor one night, with no one to catch him, as did I in Sunderland, banging my head on the overhead projector on my way down - no it didnt hurt when I got up!

Having said that and experienced it, I am a little sceptical. I cant say that I felt God ministering to me on that occassion, in a conscious way, as described by a few people, in fact I think the "toronto blessing" wasnt that much of blessing for me, I became disillusioned and back slidden for ten years.

How many people came to Jesus through it? Where was the revival? In my opinion, it was more about self gratification than worshipping God.

That said, God is God and he can do what he wants, if he wants you on the floor, thats where you'll go.

Catrin xx

[Simon_Templar]

actually i know it happens, happened to me a few years ago in the town of sunderland in the UK (150 miles from my home).

The people who were there actually said the chairs in front moved as I went down. Not that I remember though. The speaker was a popular one by the name of Mike Bickle, though he was not so well known then.

The church, just as a by the way is the one that owns the satellite tv channel 'god tv' and 'god tv europe'

Steve

though that has only ever happened once and I have only ever seen it one other time amongst other people.
I've just been listening to a couple of sermons by Mr. Bickle. I must say his teaching seems very good so far.

[simpleone]

"Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit" are two different things, IMO. I might be moved to my knees, or moved to raise my hands, or moved to bow my head. These are all fine. Slain in the Spirit, though, where people just fall over, start laughing uncontrollably, make unusual noises, etc. Those are things I disagree with.

Hi Jas,

May I ask why you feel "slain in the spirit" is not of God? I am skeptical about the laughing and noises part as you are but seem to be ok with the "slain" part..
What do you think is causing the slain in the spirit if it isn't God's doing?
thx....just looking for answers....and i know you are a pretty cool guy so would like to know your thoughts :)

[JAS4Yeshua]

As I said, I see being "Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit" as two, completely separate actions. Slain in the Spirit is what I perceive to be the abuses that I mentioned previously. Moved in the Spirit is when the Holy Spirit moves inside of you. I have seen it move someone to tears, move someone to their knees, etc. These actions move a person closer to the Lord and point to Him. The "Slain in the Spirit" actions (swooning, making noises, etc) draws attention away from God and focuses on what are purported to be works of the Spirit.

[simpleone]

As I said, I see being "Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit" as two, completely separate actions. Slain in the Spirit is what I perceive to be the abuses that I mentioned previously. Moved in the Spirit is when the Holy Spirit moves inside of you. I have seen it move someone to tears, move someone to their knees, etc. These actions move a person closer to the Lord and point to Him. The "Slain in the Spirit" actions (swooning, making noises, etc) draws attention away from God and focuses on what are purported to be works of the Spirit.
Ok...
I think the terminology is confusing me here (whats new!) ...heh ..let me try without using the terms :)

In your opinion:
People can fall back/forward under the spirit ....and that is fine (moved by the spirit)

People can fall back/forward but is not fine since it has now lead to swooning, laughing, etc? (slain)

Did I interpret you right??

The only reason I am focusing on the falling back thing is I have seen it with others incl myself (a long time ago) - but there no shaking, laughing, swooning or anything like that...just the gentle fall :)

[simpleone]

I have to leave...be back later :)

[JAS4Yeshua]

Close. ;)

Let my try to break it down the way you have, although I use the terms I'm familiar with so that others hopefully understand where I'm coming from as well.

Moved by the Spirit (I agree with)
Moved to one's knees
Moved to raise hands
Moved to tears
Moved to sing
Moved to dance

Slain in the Spirit (I disagree with)
Uncontrollable falling
Uncontrollable laughter
Uncontrollable noises
Uncontrollable actions

The Holy Spirit leads us, guides us, and teaches us. In all things, he points us to God. To give the Holy Spirit credit for uncontrollable actions that take the focus away from the Lord is the problem, IMO.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

[JAS4Yeshua]

To help try to clarify further, since maybe the term "Moved by" is unlcear. "Moved by" is the Spirit leading us, prompting us, directing us. It isn't forced upon us, so that we lose control. It is very strong direction, clearly from God, and something that we would be foolish to resist, IMO.

[jeolmstead]

Voice of reason? Is that a slap against me because I don't agree with it? No, I'm not offended, so don't think that, but I do realize that I appear to have been the only one who had brought up that topic until this point, so your comment would appear to have been directed towards me. ;)

I don't agree with the topic, but understand John's point. I personally feel it is a false manifestation, and that there are way too many abuses of it. I have brought up my view, and if others disagree with my view, that is fine. This forum is being defined, and its members are speaking up on what they think it should include. Don't dismiss me just because you don't agree with me on a topic. ;)
I for one would certainly not dismiss your point of view on the topic. If I lacked the personal experience I would certainly be VERY skeptical of it.

Nor would I think you ought to believe in it just because I said it was so.

Frankly, if all I had to go on is what I see happening in most of what passes for the charismatic movement now, I would run the other way.

I do not think that in my wife’s case it was a false manifestation as it was associated with a dramatic healing she experienced while I was praying for her. But, it is possible I suppose that we were either deceived or caught up it the power of suggestion.

(It happens, it’s part of the human condition)

I do not think we were as at the time we were not even aware of the phenomenon. As I remember, I felt a very strong presence of the Holy Spirit. I had my hand on lightly Cathy’s head praying for her. I felt “something” was going to happen, but, I didn’t know what. The only things I can say for sure are I didn’t push her over and she was rendered unconscious for a few moments. We both felt it to be a very positive experience. It had never happened before, nor has it happened since.

In any event, my post was in no way meant to offend. It was just a personal testimony.

John O.

[JAS4Yeshua]

I wasn't offended, John. I was just directing my post to the "voice of reason" statement talitha had. Since I was the only one (that I know of) opposed to the teaching, it seemed like it was directed against me. ;)

[NewSong]

Close. ;)

Let my try to break it down the way you have, although I use the terms I'm familiar with so that others hopefully understand where I'm coming from as well.

Moved by the Spirit (I agree with)
Moved to one's knees
Moved to raise hands
Moved to tears
Moved to sing
Moved to dance

Slain in the Spirit (I disagree with)
Uncontrollable falling
Uncontrollable laughter
Uncontrollable noises
Uncontrollable actions

The Holy Spirit leads us, guides us, and teaches us. In all things, he points us to God. To give the Holy Spirit credit for uncontrollable actions that take the focus away from the Lord is the problem, IMO.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Your underlined word is self-control this has nothing to do with an individual who controlled by the Spirit. Self-control is something you practice at the dinner table or your sexual affairs, magazines you buy.... there is a vast difference JAS and I disagree with you.

[JAS4Yeshua]

Fair enough. But don't throw away what I've written just because of a poorly chosen verse. ;)

[jeolmstead]

I wasn't offended, John. I was just directing my post to the "voice of reason" statement talitha had. Since I was the only one (that I know of) opposed to the teaching, it seemed like it was directed against me. ;)
I think you are wise to be skeptical Jason. I don’t think God is offended by honest skepticism. Frankly we need more of it.

We do not have to disengage our brain or reason to follow Christ. He is the Lord of all of our parts, body, soul , and spirit.

Sometimes things we do look foolish to the world but not to us (as it should be)

Sometimes things appear foolish to us as Christians because they are! We should have the courage to stand up and say it!

IMHO there is a whole lot of flesh out there pushing people down, and there is a whole lot of flesh out there falling down. This is what my brain (the one God gave me) tells me and my spirit (the one God gave me) bears witness.

Having said that, there are a many people I know and trust who have had this experience. (including my wife) this too bears witness with both my mind and my spirit.

John O.

[JAS4Yeshua]

Please believe that I'm not discounting anyone's experiences or testimonies. I'm stating what I believe, and separating "Moved by the Spirit" from "Slain in the Spirit."

[talitha]

I wasn't offended, John. I was just directing my post to the "voice of reason" statement talitha had. Since I was the only one (that I know of) opposed to the teaching, it seemed like it was directed against me. ;)
Jason, I have not read this entire thread, but that statement was not directed against you. I have just been impressed by both of Jeolmstead's OPs. Very impressed with the strength and solidity I'm seeing in the spirit with him. No reflection on anyone else - I'm sorry I worded it that way.

blessings
tal

[talitha]

One more thing I'd like to point out - sorry I don't have time to read the whole thread - human encounters with the manifest presence of God have been known to produce seemingly-odd results - I think it's for the same reason that the butter melts when you put it on the stove.

blessings
tal

[JAS4Yeshua]

That's ok, Talitha. I'll just report it here for your benefit. I wasn't offended in any way, just pointing out how it seemed, because I wasn't certain if it was directed at me or not. ;)

Voice of reason? Is that a slap against me because I don't agree with it? No, I'm not offended, so don't think that, but I do realize that I appear to have been the only one who had brought up that topic until this point, so your comment would appear to have been directed towards me. ;)

I don't agree with the topic, but understand John's point. I personally feel it is a false manifestation, and that there are way too many abuses of it. I have brought up my view, and if others disagree with my view, that is fine. This forum is being defined, and its members are speaking up on what they think it should include. Don't dismiss me just because you don't agree with me on a topic. ;)

[NewSong]

Jason, I have not read this entire thread, but that statement was not directed against you. I have just been impressed by both of Jeolmstead's OPs. Very impressed with the strength and solidity I'm seeing in the spirit with him. No reflection on anyone else - I'm sorry I worded it that way.

blessings
tal
Was it directed at me? I wanna know if I should be offended?
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[MrSnow]

I think it's for the same reason that the butter melts when you put it on the stove.

Interestingly enough, put clay in the same exact stove and it hardens.

The idea of "slain in the spirit" is something that I struggle with. On the one hand, if God is doing something I don't want to resist Him. On the other hand, I don't want to blindly jump into something false just because someone claims that it is of God. I have always been resistant to this, yet I have been praying about it (and having my wife pray for me), and if it's genuinely from God, I want it, just as I want every good that God has for me, whether I understand it or not.

[jeolmstead]

I think that the snare lies in seeking an experience over seeking God.

Lots of things can provide us with an “experience” Most of these are not from God.

I am all for God “laying me out” or anything else he wants for me. If it happens it will happen because I’m seeking Him. (Not because brother grand PooBah waves at me)

John O

[geetrue]

I think we have over looked the explanation of being anointed and being slain in the Spirit at the same time.

What a powerful moment that was for me about two years ago when Pastor Joe Cicchino out of Broken Arrow, Oklahoma anointed me with oil and the anointing of God was so strong that I could not stand, I could not sit, I could not run ... I just fell down on the floor with everyone else.

One lady that was right beside me and recieved the anoiting at the same time was a Budda lover and the whole town new about her. They had mocked her for years. It's a small town. lol

Now she is my best friend at church and the whole town is not laughing anymore.

I think we can live with Jason not understanding being slain in the Spirit. Can't we? It's not going to keep me from enjoying this new sub-forum.

Have I mis-counted how many don't believe in being slain in the Spirit?

If anyone comes in here and says, "Yeah, but what about being slain in the Spirit"?

We'll just send them over to the other two forums and say, "Hey man were still trying to figure that one out oursleves"

http://www.rumration.co.uk/cpgn2/images/smiles/wav.gif

[NewSong]

I think that the snare lies in seeking an experience over seeking God.

Lots of things can provide us with an “experience” Most of these are not from God.

I am all for God “laying me out” or anything else he wants for me. If it happens it will happen because I’m seeking Him. (Not because brother grand PooBah waves at me)

John O
I never was seeking an experience from GoD. I minded my own business. I wanted GOD and the experience came with it. There might be some who seek the experience but I wasn't and I am not and it exists at least in my relationship with GOD~

[NewSong]

I think we have over looked the explanation of being anointed and being slain in the Spirit at the same time.

What a powerful moment that was for me about two years ago when Pastor Joe Cicchino out of Broken Arrow, Oklahoma anointed me with oil and the anointing of God was so strong that I could not stand, I could not sit, I could not run ... I just fell down on the floor with everyone else.

One lady that was right beside me and recieved the anoiting at the same time was a Budda lover and the whole town new about her. They had mocked her for years. It's a small town. lol

Now she is my best friend at church and the whole town is not laughing anymore.

I think we can live with Jason not understanding being slain in the Spirit. Can't we? It's not going to keep me from enjoying this new sub-forum.

Have I mis-counted how many don't believe in being slain in the Spirit?

If anyone comes in here and says, "Yeah, but what about being slain in the Spirit"?

We'll just send them over to the other two forums and say, "Hey man were still trying to figure that one out oursleves"

http://www.rumration.co.uk/cpgn2/images/smiles/wav.gif
Hey Gee did anyone tell you to be careful about using the word anointing ..... ;) Anyway, some of the non-wof have a hard time with that word ...but I know what you mean by it.

[talitha]

I think it's for the same reason that the butter melts when you put it on the stove.

Interestingly enough, put clay in the same exact stove and it hardens.
Now that'll preach!;)

:preach:

[Dave01]

I think I can relate a recent experienc here.

I was invited to a small Methodist church for a healing service here recently. I don't really think there is such a thing as a healing service, but nevertheless, I wanted to check it out.

It is a really old small church, but it's members are known as Spirit-filled. I, along with a couple, came to them from our Pentecostal church.

Well service starts. I notice they are into their old hymns a lot. We are more contempary. Anyways, I start to get into praying in the spirit and lifting hands, all of the sudden, about 3 or so people were slain in one of the pews. No one touched them, they just went down by themselves, all of them at once.

That, I feel, was a true slaying in the Spirit.

[robbymac]

I've "fallen down" (never much cared for the term "slain in the Spirit") when the presence of the Spirit was heavy in a room, so while I'm not a big fan of the terminology that is normally used, it HAS been part of my experience more than once over the years.

Having said that, I appreciate and agree with all those who have pointed out that we seek God for who He is, and not for having cool experiences. Chasing experiences can make us unbalanced and annoying.

And God doesn't need the help of anyone pushing or pulling people down while yelling "more, Lord". I've seen that too, and it was at best... disappointing.

But when the Holy Spirit is genuinely present in power, WOO-HOO!!! Good times!

[c1ners]

Why is it that some pastors feel the need to push extremely hard on someones head?

I took my daughter to a new church last night. She has gone through some pretty rough times, and at the present is living with her sister in a different state. She is here for just another week, and I thought it beneificial to take her to church.

At first she just stood there. Arms dangling at her side. But little by little her arms started coming up. She was getting something out of it! :clap: By the end of the service, I could feel the difference in her. It was like the darkness had fallen away, and the light replaced it. When the youth pastor asked everyone to come up front, she was one of the first to go. I was so happy! Then he started laying his hands on the youth, and some did go down. When he got to my daughter he started screaming in her ear, and pushing on her head. :doh: That's all she remembers now. She won't even go back with me on Sunday. :( It's funny (in a sad kind of way) how God was lifting her up, but man put her right back down.

So, why does a pastor have the tendency to scream in peoples ear, and push hard on their head? It did more damage than good to my daughter, and I'm a little biffed at it right now.

[SirTimothy]

So, why does a pastor have the tendency to scream in peoples ear, and push hard on their head? It did more damage than good to my daughter, and I'm a little biffed at it right now.

It's a pain, causes untold damage. The simple answer is this: ego. Its unbiblical too. Jesus primary ministry was in private to people who needed it most.

[NewSong]

I've "fallen down" (never much cared for the term "slain in the Spirit") when the presence of the Spirit was heavy in a room, so while I'm not a big fan of the terminology that is normally used, it HAS been part of my experience more than once over the years.

Having said that, I appreciate and agree with all those who have pointed out that we seek God for who He is, and not for having cool experiences. Chasing experiences can make us unbalanced and annoying.

And God doesn't need the help of anyone pushing or pulling people down while yelling "more, Lord". I've seen that too, and it was at best... disappointing.

But when the Holy Spirit is genuinely present in power, WOO-HOO!!! Good times!
I can't stand the term "slain in the spirit." I see no biblical words to that effect. However, I do see that people went down under the power of God but I am not sure what the correct terminology would be but "slain in the spirit" is not even a phrase you will hear in our church. You will see people on occasion down but not "slain" as in murdered, bumped off, polished off or whatever the term is defined in your dictionary. :)

[Jimbeaux]

I can't stand the term "slain in the spirit." I see no biblical words to that effect. However, I do see that people went down under the power of God but I am not sure what the correct terminology would be but "slain in the spirit" is not even a phrase you will hear in our church. You will see people on occasion down but not "slain" as in murdered, bumped off, polished off or whatever the term is defined in your dictionary. :)

I remember my first reaction when, as a new believer in a Pentecostal church, someone fell down when the preacher prayed for them. I asked what happened and was told, “Oh, nothing to worry about, they were just ‘slain in the Spirit.’”

I thought the Holy Ghost had just killed someone and felt there was plenty to worry about.

I’m with you, I have never liked the term ‘slain in the Spirit’ ever since. Why don't we just say they 'fell down' w/o over-spiritualizing what has happened?

~Jim

In your hatred of evil do not forget to love good.

[Tamara224]

I've always been a bit skeptical of being "slain in the Spirit." I remember wondering about it when I was younger and thinking "I'm never going to do that."

I'm still skeptical about a lot of it. Like when I see people falling all over themselves and each other at a Benny Hinn event... with all of the arm waving, coat waving stuff that goes on. It just seems odd to me that a man can wave his arms and have people fall down in such dramatic fashion.

Still... I have experienced falling down, once. I was at a Four Square church in college and the pastor (a woman with the gift of prophecy) prayed for me and prophecied over me and the next thing I knew I felt weak and unable to stand. I fell down and lay there feeling... well, overwhelmed is the best word for it, I think.

I do believe it was a "close encounter" ;) with the Holy Spirit. I'm still skeptical of a lot of it. But I believe that it does happen and that it is of God much of the time. Granted, people fake it and preachers push people down, and some of it may simply be that people get themselves worked up to a point that they fall down and "feel" something. I can't pretend to know in every case.

[JAS4Yeshua]

In light of the recent posts, I thought it would be good to quote a few of my previous posts referring to "Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit."

"Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit" are two different things, IMO. I might be moved to my knees, or moved to raise my hands, or moved to bow my head. These are all fine. Slain in the Spirit, though, where people just fall over, start laughing uncontrollably, make unusual noises, etc. Those are things I disagree with.

As I said, I see being "Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit" as two, completely separate actions. Slain in the Spirit is what I perceive to be the abuses that I mentioned previously. Moved in the Spirit is when the Holy Spirit moves inside of you. I have seen it move someone to tears, move someone to their knees, etc. These actions move a person closer to the Lord and point to Him. The "Slain in the Spirit" actions (swooning, making noises, etc) draws attention away from God and focuses on what are purported to be works of the Spirit.

Close. ;)

Let my try to break it down the way you have, although I use the terms I'm familiar with so that others hopefully understand where I'm coming from as well.

Moved by the Spirit (I agree with)
Moved to one's knees
Moved to raise hands
Moved to tears
Moved to sing
Moved to dance

Slain in the Spirit (I disagree with)
Uncontrollable falling
Uncontrollable laughter
Uncontrollable noises
Uncontrollable actions

The Holy Spirit leads us, guides us, and teaches us. In all things, he points us to God. To give the Holy Spirit credit for uncontrollable actions that take the focus away from the Lord is the problem, IMO.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

To help try to clarify further, since maybe the term "Moved by" is unlcear. "Moved by" is the Spirit leading us, prompting us, directing us. It isn't forced upon us, so that we lose control. It is very strong direction, clearly from God, and something that we would be foolish to resist, IMO.

I don't know if "Moved by the Spirit" is used anywhere except in my own mind. Don't know if I've heard it anywhere before, but the description seems apt, and in some cases lines up with what some people are describing as "acceptible Slain in the Spirit."

Do people agree with anything I've written here? Do you think it would be good to use this terminology to show where we differ on this subject?

[talitha]

Jason, I think it would be good to agree to disagree. :)

[LeadWorship]

Last Sunday we had a half dozen or so people enjoying "carpet time". It was a Spiritual release that our church has saught for more than 8 years. It was amazing to say the least. God is Good.

Oh, and they were falling all sorts of ways: forward, sideways, backwards, but our "catchers" would catch and guide them to them backs, or whereever they fell. Also we placed flags over the ladies. (we had no cover sheets handy).

It was the first time our pastor has experienced it. He has only been Baptised in the Spirit 2 and a half years, so his eyes were buggin and he was flying by the Spirit (Praise God!!). It was a beautiful thing.

[JAS4Yeshua]

Jason, I think it would be good to agree to disagree. :)
That's fine, Talitha. I do agree to disagree, but there are others raising concerns as well, which is why I bring it up again for discussion. I'm looking for someone willing to engage in the discussion, instead of just saying "agree to disagree." ;)

[Tamara224]

In light of the recent posts, I thought it would be good to quote a few of my previous posts referring to "Moved by the Spirit" and "Slain in the Spirit."


I don't know if "Moved by the Spirit" is used anywhere except in my own mind. Don't know if I've heard it anywhere before, but the description seems apt, and in some cases lines up with what some people are describing as "acceptible Slain in the Spirit."

Do people agree with anything I've written here? Do you think it would be good to use this terminology to show where we differ on this subject?


Well, I've never liked the term "slain in the Spirit"... As others have pointed it out, it gives a false impression of what actually happens.

I'd be fine with calling it "moved by the Spirit" instead. However, I think that most of us seem to agree that falling down can be a genuine instance of being "moved by the Spirit".

I found two possible instances in the Bible where someone was "moved by the Spirit" (depending on the translation):

Luke 2:26-27 (NIV)
26It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts.

2 Peter 1:21 (NASB)
...for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.


Neither of these passages seem to suggest any of the things on the lists...


As much as I am skeptical of so much of the "charismania"... I am also cautious when we start trying to quantify and qualify (make lists about) what exactly is or is not a genuine "move of the Spirit." I think that these areas are exactly where each Charismatic believer needs to exercise discernment for themselves, (relying on the Holy Spirit to give discernment).

IMO, there is danger in labelling and categorizing. We make ourselves nice lists of what is or isn't a move of God and before long we'll stumble over the lists. What if we got something in the wrong category? What if God does something completely new, or something only one time for one person and one purpose? Would we dismiss it as not from God because it wasn't on our "of God" list?

As we can all see from reading the Bible, God does strange things at times. Strange to us, that is.

Now, do we dismiss it just because it's 'strange'? No.
Do we accept it just because it's 'strange'? No.

We evaluate the situations as they arise and pray about them. The Spirit within us is able to confirm or disavow whatever activity is going on.

Some people will always go into excesses. We can't escape that by making rules about what is or is not going to be "accepted" if it occurs.



One final note... I think you're making a mistake, Jason, in lumping falling down (being "slain") in with laughter, rolling around, and making animal noises... Those things do not necessarily go together and are not really, imo, in the same category. (Yes, I realize I just got done saying we shouldn't categorize... but if we were to categorize, I wouldn't put them in the same category ;) ).

[talitha]

Jason, what I notice about your lists is that you are drawing a line between volitional acts and sovereign moves of the Spirit, and rejecting sovereign moves. Is that right?

[JAS4Yeshua]

I definately agree God does do strange things at times. I also see what you were saying about lists, although my lists were generated to help further explain my point of view.

For me, the bottom line is controlled or uncontrolled. When a person is moved by the Spirit, he is guided and directed to God. To glorify Him. To bring honor and praise to Him. To bring others to Him. Everything the Holy Spirit does, points to God. Neither God nor the Holy Spirit forces things on anyone. I can find no place in the Word that states anything is forced.

Slain by the Spirit seems to be the opposite of that. It is a forceful and uncontrollable action. It points to the action instead of the Lord. I'm not saying that someone who is "slain" isn't focusing on the Lord, but the act of itself is where the problem lies. It is more mysticism than spiritual, IMO.

Like you said, it comes down to testing the Spirits, to see whether they are from God. This is why I point out the difference between being "Moved by the Spirit" as opposed to being "Slain in the Spirit."

[JAS4Yeshua]

Jason, what I notice about your lists is that you are drawing a line between volitional acts and sovereign moves of the Spirit, and rejecting sovereign moves. Is that right?
Not exactly true. If you see my previous post, I explain what I mean. Hopefully it is clear enough to be understood. I'm definately not against God's sovereign moves. I'm all for testing the Spirits, and there are certain things I look for, as mentioned previously. God can do and does do whatever He chooses, that has never been my dispute. ;)

[talitha]

sorry, Jason, in that post you seem to be saying the same thing I'm saying, using different words.

[JAS4Yeshua]

sorry, Jason, in that post you seem to be saying the same thing I'm saying, using different words.
Which is why there is discussion, to clarify differing points of view, to see where the common threads are, and build from that. ;)

[Tamara224]

I definately agree God does do strange things at times. I also see what you were saying about lists, although my lists were generated to help further explain my point of view.

I understand, and I didn't mean to imply that you were making lists for any other reason.

For me, the bottom line is controlled or uncontrolled. When a person is moved by the Spirit, he is guided and directed to God. To glorify Him. To bring honor and praise to Him. To bring others to Him. Everything the Holy Spirit does, points to God. Neither God nor the Holy Spirit forces things on anyone. I can find no place in the Word that states anything is forced.

Similarly, look at the other side of that coin... Can you find anything in the Word that states nothing is forced?

And, I guess I'll disagree that God never "forces things on anyone." I'd say that God most certainly does force things on us at times. If we need it forced on us... Discipline, is one thing God "forces" on us... None of us would choose it for ourselves or volunteer for it.

He doesn't "possess" us and make us do things against our will.... But imo, being "moved by God to fall down" isn't really completely involuntary.

Slain by the Spirit seems to be the opposite of that. It is a forceful and uncontrollable action. It points to the action instead of the Lord. I'm not saying that someone who is "slain" isn't focusing on the Lord, but the act of itself is where the problem lies. It is more mysticism than spiritual, IMO.

I disagree. When I was "felled" by the Spirit, it didn't feel "forceful"... I don't think God was imposing Himself on me, but moving in a tangible way which, at the time, I needed in order to confirm the word that had just been given to me. (Even though I didn't realize I needed it, at the time).

I don't know what other people thought when I fell down or if it drew attention to me. It might have. My attention has certainly been drawn to others who have fallen. Nevertheless, I do believe that God was glorified - it certainly drew my attention to Him.

Like you said, it comes down to testing the Spirits, to see whether they are from God. This is why I point out the difference between being "Moved by the Spirit" as opposed to being "Slain in the Spirit."


Well, I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the exact distinction you are making. I think the "moved vs. slain" is kind of an exercise in semantics. Whatever we call it, people fall down.


Also, as skeptical as I am by nature, I've decided that I can't say that falling down is not a genuine move of God because so many people that I know and trust have testified that they experienced it. So, either I believe that my brothers and sisters are deluding themselves (which ultimately raises questions about their ability to recognize the Shepherd's voice vs. my own), or I believe they experienced a move of God.

[talitha]

Okay, let me see if I can clarify further. I believe that sometimes God does things "to" us (I'm not liking this wording, but I don't know how to make it clear otherwise), and you don't - right?

blessings
tal

PS - to whom it concerns, Jason and I are not fighting, we're just discussing - so please don't be worried...... :)

[Redheadedstepchild]

Also, as skeptical as I am by nature, I've decided that I can't say that falling down is not a genuine move of God because so many people that I know and trust have testified that they experienced it. So, either I believe that my brothers and sisters are deluding themselves (which ultimately raises questions about their ability to recognize the Shepherd's voice vs. my own), or I believe they experienced a move of God.

This pretty well describes my view on charismatic *behavior* in general.
Strangely enough, I've never demonstrated any of the gifts (ok, I may have spoken in tongues once) but I've experienced the laughing thing.
Guess I'm a spiritual oddball.^_^

[JAS4Yeshua]

This pretty well describes my view on charismatic *behavior* in general.
Strangely enough, I've never demonstrated any of the gifts (ok, I may have spoken in tongues once) but I've experienced the laughing thing.
Guess I'm a spiritual oddball.^_^
Welcome to the spiritual oddball club. ^_^

[JAS4Yeshua]

Okay, let me see if I can clarify further. I believe that sometimes God does things "to" us (I'm not liking this wording, but I don't know how to make it clear otherwise), and you don't - right?

blessings
tal

PS - to whom it concerns, Jason and I are not fighting, we're just discussing - so please don't be worried...... :)
It is a simplistic an explanation, and I do agree with what you're saying. That is, I don't agree God does things "to" us in that fashion. But to leave it there doesn't fully explain my stance. For intents and purposes yes, that is where we disagree. ;)

[talitha]

What does it not explain?

[JAS4Yeshua]

I understand, and I didn't mean to imply that you were making lists for any other reason.
I know. I just wanted to be clear on that. ;)

Similarly, look at the other side of that coin... Can you find anything in the Word that states nothing is forced?
I've seen moved, directed, guided, inspired, but I haven't seen forced, or the contrary that nothing is forced.

And, I guess I'll disagree that God never "forces things on anyone." I'd say that God most certainly does force things on us at times. If we need it forced on us... Discipline, is one thing God "forces" on us... None of us would choose it for ourselves or volunteer for it.
I agree, discipline is forced upon us. I had that forced upon me. Those whom He loves, He chastises. I'll always be grateful for His chastisement.

That being said, it still doesn't qualify the slain in the Spirit experience. IMO, it is comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about the actions of the Spirit, our comforter, teacher, encourager, and empowerer. I believe the discipline comes from the Father, while the Spirit handles the comforting. Different aspects of the same God, but still the same God.

He doesn't "possess" us and make us do things against our will.... But imo, being "moved by God to fall down" isn't really completely involuntary.
Then you and I agree. You can be moved so forcefully that it is extremely difficult to resist. IMO it would be foolish to resist. Can He move someone to fall down? Perhaps. But when you think of the injuries that can (and sometimes do) happen, do you think God would cause someone to do something that would harm themselves, even accidentally?

I disagree. When I was "felled" by the Spirit, it didn't feel "forceful"... I don't think God was imposing Himself on me, but moving in a tangible way which, at the time, I needed in order to confirm the word that had just been given to me. (Even though I didn't realize I needed it, at the time).

I don't know what other people thought when I fell down or if it drew attention to me. It might have. My attention has certainly been drawn to others who have fallen. Nevertheless, I do believe that God was glorified - it certainly drew my attention to Him.
As I said, I'm not discounting anyone's experience. I'm not saying that you are wrong for having that experience. God did use that experience for you, and that is great. I just think it is something that is more recent in development as opposed to something that happened in Scripture or in the early church.

Well, I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the exact distinction you are making. I think the "moved vs. slain" is kind of an exercise in semantics. Whatever we call it, people fall down.
It might be semantics. Like I said, it is something I use to explain myself. I don't know where the term came from. In my mind, Slain and Moved are two separate actions, one of which is a perversion of the Truth, IMO.

Also, as skeptical as I am by nature, I've decided that I can't say that falling down is not a genuine move of God because so many people that I know and trust have testified that they experienced it. So, either I believe that my brothers and sisters are deluding themselves (which ultimately raises questions about their ability to recognize the Shepherd's voice vs. my own), or I believe they experienced a move of God.
For me, falling is a very grey area. I'm sure there are those, like yourself, that have had experiences that turn them to, or focus them more on God. I'm not saying anyone is deluding themselves (although there are probably some who do that). What I am saying is that I don't think that falling is something the Holy Spirit is wanting to cause us to do. Especially if falling can cause harm.

[JAS4Yeshua]

What does it not explain?
That answer is too simplistic. God isn't that simplistic. That is the purpose of testing the Spirits, to see whether they are from God. My longer explanations might clarify why the simplistic doesn't necessarily explain my full view. ;)

[Simon_Templar]

The idea that God posesses people is a heresy.

However, I don't think thats necessarily what "slain in the Spirit" is. I believe it is possible and it does occur that a person can simply be physically overcome by the presense of God.

However, honestly, most of what I have seen in actual practice, I don't think is real and some of it is 'new agey'.

[Tamara224]

I agree, discipline is forced upon us. I had that forced upon me. Those whom He loves, He chastises. I'll always be grateful for His chastisement.

That being said, it still doesn't qualify the slain in the Spirit experience. IMO, it is comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about the actions of the Spirit, our comforter, teacher, encourager, and empowerer. I believe the discipline comes from the Father, while the Spirit handles the comforting. Different aspects of the same God, but still the same God.

Well, possibly, but I'd prefer not to get caught up in assigning responsibilities to different persons of the God Head. I'm uncomfortable with that. It seems too much like trying to pin God down so we can understand Him.

Besides, I think I could successfully state an argument for why comfort must sometimes be "forced" upon us.


Then you and I agree. You can be moved so forcefully that it is extremely difficult to resist. IMO it would be foolish to resist. Can He move someone to fall down? Perhaps. But when you think of the injuries that can (and sometimes do) happen, do you think God would cause someone to do something that would harm themselves, even accidentally?

What is a bumped head or a bruised backside to God? We're talking about the same God that dislocated Jacob's hip - giving him a lifelong disability. Maybe our encounters with God aren't always going to be comfortable or painless.

Also, think of fasting... many people might say that God wouldn't want us to fast because it could be dangerous and would certainly be unpleasant and perhaps even painful. Yet we do fast. So, perhaps the temporal/physical comfort and safety is not really something we should be considering in determining whether something is or is not from God. Certainly, the WoFers will tell you that God doesn't want us to be in pain, sick, etc... I disagree.

Nevertheless, I've heard many testimonies about people falling and not being hurt although they should have been. So, perhaps if it's God inspired, the person won't get hurt. Although, to me this sounds like a pretty arbitrary (not to mention sorta carnal) distinction to make.


As I said, I'm not discounting anyone's experience. I'm not saying that you are wrong for having that experience. God did use that experience for you, and that is great. I just think it is something that is more recent in development as opposed to something that happened in Scripture or in the early church.

Well... Not something that was written about the early Church. But to say that because no one wrote about it that it never happened is a logical error. We cannot say definitively that it didn't happen then.

It might be semantics. Like I said, it is something I use to explain myself. I don't know where the term came from. In my mind, Slain and Moved are two separate actions, one of which is a perversion of the Truth, IMO.

I feel like you're being a little slippery, Jason. I'm not understanding your position.

Do you maintain that falling to the floor is "slain in the Spirit" and a perversion of the Truth?

Let me ask you this... You stated earlier that you felt a person could be "moved" by the Holy Spirit to fall to their knees, right? Well, what is the difference between falling to your knees and falling to your face (or your back)? A few feet? What difference is there, really?


For me, falling is a very grey area. I'm sure there are those, like yourself, that have had experiences that turn them to, or focus them more on God. I'm not saying anyone is deluding themselves (although there are probably some who do that). What I am saying is that I don't think that falling is something the Holy Spirit is wanting to cause us to do. Especially if falling can cause harm.

Okay, well whether you mean to or not, the conclusion that must be drawn from your statement is that people who fall are falling on their own or as inspired by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit. There is no wiggle room there.

There are only a few possible explanations for "falling":
1. Faking it;
2. Delude yourself into "feeling" it (pyschosomatic);
3. Influenced or forced by an evil spirit; or
4. The Holy Spirit did it.


Soooo.... You can't really say you think that my experience was not me deluding myself and yet at the same time maintain that God didn't want me to fall down. Either I'm lying or was deluded, or God did it.

If you believe that I was deluded, then you can choose to believe that.

But for me, this is a question of witness credibility. Do you believe the person can hear from God and knows God's voice? Or do you believe that your ideals of what is and should be are more credible than the first-hand testimony of your brothers and sisters?

[JAS4Yeshua]

I have to say, debating with a lawyer can definately stretch your mind. In this case, it is a good thing. ;)

Well, possibly, but I'd prefer not to get caught up in assigning responsibilities to different persons of the God Head. I'm uncomfortable with that. It seems too much like trying to pin God down so we can understand Him.
The different persons and tasks of the Trinity is a subject for another thread completely. That is something that goes far beyond the scope of this discussion. Let's agree to leave that one alone for now. ;)

Besides, I think I could successfully state an argument for why comfort must sometimes be "forced" upon us.
Fair enough. Psalm 23 is an example of how that could be applied. (He makes me lie down in green pastures...)

What is a bumped head or a bruised backside to God? We're talking about the same God that dislocated Jacob's hip - giving him a lifelong disability. Maybe our encounters with God aren't always going to be comfortable or painless.

Also, think of fasting... many people might say that God wouldn't want us to fast because it could be dangerous and would certainly be unpleasant and perhaps even painful. Yet we do fast. So, perhaps the temporal/physical comfort and safety is not really something we should be considering in determining whether something is or is not from God. Certainly, the WoFers will tell you that God doesn't want us to be in pain, sick, etc... I disagree.

Nevertheless, I've heard many testimonies about people falling and not being hurt although they should have been. So, perhaps if it's God inspired, the person won't get hurt. Although, to me this sounds like a pretty arbitrary (not to mention sorta carnal) distinction to make.
God dislocated Jacob's hip because Jacob was wrestling with God, resisting Him. In some ways it was a punishment that ultimately ended with a blessing. Are you intending to compare falling over as the same of Jacob resiting God? If so, I can see a justification for falling over. I doubt that was your intent, though, so I don't quite see the connection on that.

Fasting is a voluntary action that we use to draw ourselves closer to the Lord. It is uncomfortable, and some people have health restrictions that limit their ability to fast. Yes, it is uncomfortable and difficult, but so is our Christian walk at times. Yet God is greater than our trials. Can this be used to justify falling over? Fasting is voluntary and falling over is involuntary.

Now, don't think I'm trying to avoid what you are saying. I know you are talking about being injured. You are correct, bumps and bruises are nothing to God. We get far worse a beating by life at times. Nothing compares to the eternal glory of God, and this body is only a tent that is going to be destroyed one day.

There has also been previous mention in this thread of people falling and not getting hurt. I recognize and acknowledge that. It is an example of God's protection, but I agree it isn't something to base a decision on, one way or the other.

Well... Not something that was written about the early Church. But to say that because no one wrote about it that it never happened is a logical error. We cannot say definitively that it didn't happen then.
True. Logically, just because something isn't written, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I would think, though, that if something like this was happening, we'd see it somewhere in the works we have from the time. Christian or non-Christian writings from the time of the early Church. Again, just because it isn't there, doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it does cast doubt on whether or not it did happen.

I feel like you're being a little slippery, Jason. I'm not understanding your position.

Do you maintain that falling to the floor is "slain in the Spirit" and a perversion of the Truth?

Let me ask you this... You stated earlier that you felt a person could be "moved" by the Holy Spirit to fall to their knees, right? Well, what is the difference between falling to your knees and falling to your face (or your back)? A few feet? What difference is there, really?
I'm not intending to be slippery. I'm just trying to explain my position to the best of my ability. You're just good at spotting the holes that I don't see. ;)

I'm not tying to say that falling to the floor is the same as Slain in the Spirit. Yes, I do believe a person can be moved to their knees. Is that different than falling? I admit, there probably isn't much of a difference. A few feet, though, I definately don't see that one as qualifying.

Okay, well whether you mean to or not, the conclusion that must be drawn from your statement is that people who fall are falling on their own or as inspired by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit. There is no wiggle room there.

There are only a few possible explanations for "falling":
1. Faking it;
2. Delude yourself into "feeling" it (pyschosomatic);
3. Influenced or forced by an evil spirit; or
4. The Holy Spirit did it.
Sounds like the C.S. Lewis argument for Jesus in "Mere Christianity." ;)

You're correct, and I do agree. Those are the only four options. I see no others.

Soooo.... You can't really say you think that my experience was not me deluding myself and yet at the same time maintain that God didn't want me to fall down. Either I'm lying or was deluded, or God did it.

If you believe that I was deluded, then you can choose to believe that.

But for me, this is a question of witness credibility. Do you believe the person can hear from God and knows God's voice? Or do you believe that your ideals of what is and should be are more credible than the first-hand testimony of your brothers and sisters?
I have neither said, nor implied, that your experience was deluding yourself. Nor have I said, nor implied, that for anyone else. Some do that delude themselves, but that isn't what I'm judging.

You said it yourself, there are four things it could be. I agree with those four things. We are called to test the Spirits, to see if they are from God. If you have tested your experience, and it is from God, then that is your experience and worthy of praise.

Again, as you said, there are four options. I think the first three options are far more prevalent than the fourth, IMO. Do I know which is which? No, but I will test the Spirits. That is why I think falling is such a grey area. There are so many false manifestations that it is hard to find the wheat among the tares. That is also why I, personally, separate "Moving of the Spirit" from "Slain in the Spirit." Is it semantics? Probably. But by making the distinction, it helps me to test the Spirits, and separate the wheat from the tares.

[simpleone]

Close. ;)

Let my try to break it down the way you have, although I use the terms I'm familiar with so that others hopefully understand where I'm coming from as well.

Moved by the Spirit (I agree with)
Moved to one's knees
Moved to raise hands
Moved to tears
Moved to sing
Moved to dance

Slain in the Spirit (I disagree with)
Uncontrollable falling
Uncontrollable laughter
Uncontrollable noises
Uncontrollable actions

The Holy Spirit leads us, guides us, and teaches us. In all things, he points us to God. To give the Holy Spirit credit for uncontrollable actions that take the focus away from the Lord is the problem, IMO.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.


To help try to clarify further, since maybe the term "Moved by" is unlcear. "Moved by" is the Spirit leading us, prompting us, directing us. It isn't forced upon us, so that we lose control. It is very strong direction, clearly from God, and something that we would be foolish to resist, IMO.

Some good stuff. I like your view and differentiation of being moved and not lose control vs moved/lose control (which doesn't help with the fruits) :) .
Just a comment still on the falling...I cant speak for others but if I remember my experience correctly...i think this was also controllable in the sense I could have stood ground....but just chose not too :).

I am also very unsure/skeptical about making sounds/laughing and stuff like that. But since I am not sure ...I will leave this with God...

Thanks for your response again!

[cyberlizard]

i've stated my position on this before and everyone at somepoint mentions them being pushed over by the head.

but there is another two aspects

firstly:- to stop the accusation, some ministers held them by the hands when they were praying for them. Now most people, if someone has there hands pulled towards someone else pull slightly back. if you increase the pull in one direction, you increase the pull in the other to keep yourself upright. however if one side suddenly lets go, you know what happens. Over they go.

secondly:- and no one wants to admit this, but it is true. is that when a small group comes together, the group dynamics operate in a certain way (a simple way). however put a large group together and it does not behave that way at all, it takes on a life of its own, academics call it 'collective effervescence' . We no longer function as individuals. Freud (shame i have tou use his name) and Jung (whose name i like even less) would call this 'hysteria' and 'collective unconscious'.

just cause were spiritual does not mean we are no still susceptible to the things of the flesh.

Steve

but god does still work how he chooses too.

[robbymac]

There are only a few possible explanations for "falling":
1. Faking it;
2. Delude yourself into "feeling" it (pyschosomatic);
3. Influenced or forced by an evil spirit; or
4. The Holy Spirit did it.

Could we add just a couple more?

5. Falling down in hopes that it may trigger a genuine Spirit-encounter.
6. Learned behaviour. (Thinking that whenever the Spirit's presence is deeply felt, that falling down is the new "normal".)

I appreciate the straight-forward discussion, and that it's staying respectful.
:liturgy:

[JAS4Yeshua]

I think those two are actually types of delusions or faking it, personally. But it does bring up additional valid points.

[Tamara224]

I have to say, debating with a lawyer can definately stretch your mind. In this case, it is a good thing.

:D


The different persons and tasks of the Trinity is a subject for another thread completely. That is something that goes far beyond the scope of this discussion. Let's agree to leave that one alone for now.

Good call.


God dislocated Jacob's hip because Jacob was wrestling with God, resisting Him. In some ways it was a punishment that ultimately ended with a blessing. Are you intending to compare falling over as the same of Jacob resiting God? If so, I can see a justification for falling over. I doubt that was your intent, though, so I don't quite see the connection on that.

The connection is simply that Jacob's close encounter with God left him injured. It does not prove, and was not intended to prove that falling down is legitimate. It was offerred simply as a refutation to the suggestion that injury could not result for the move of God.

Fasting is a voluntary action that we use to draw ourselves closer to the Lord. It is uncomfortable, and some people have health restrictions that limit their ability to fast. Yes, it is uncomfortable and difficult, but so is our Christian walk at times. Yet God is greater than our trials. Can this be used to justify falling over? Fasting is voluntary and falling over is involuntary.

Same connection here as with Jacob... only offered to refute a specific point, not as a means of establishing the legitimacy of falling. :)

Now, don't think I'm trying to avoid what you are saying. I know you are talking about being injured. You are correct, bumps and bruises are nothing to God. We get far worse a beating by life at times. Nothing compares to the eternal glory of God, and this body is only a tent that is going to be destroyed one day.

:thumbsup:

True. Logically, just because something isn't written, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I would think, though, that if something like this was happening, we'd see it somewhere in the works we have from the time. Christian or non-Christian writings from the time of the early Church. Again, just because it isn't there, doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it does cast doubt on whether or not it did happen.

Good point. While the silence of Scripture cannot prove that it did not happen, we can infer that if it were happening a lot, the chances of it being written about are greater and therefore the lack of mention suggests it might not have been happening. But we can't really definitively say either way.


I'm not intending to be slippery. I'm just trying to explain my position to the best of my ability. You're just good at spotting the holes that I don't see.

I know you weren't intending it. It just felt a little slippery and I wanted to get a firmer clarification.

I'm not tying to say that falling to the floor is the same as Slain in the Spirit. Yes, I do believe a person can be moved to their knees. Is that different than falling? I admit, there probably isn't much of a difference. A few feet, though, I definately don't see that one as qualifying.

:)


Sounds like the C.S. Lewis argument for Jesus in "Mere Christianity." ;)

You're correct, and I do agree. Those are the only four options. I see no others.


I have neither said, nor implied, that your experience was deluding yourself. Nor have I said, nor implied, that for anyone else. Some do that delude themselves, but that isn't what I'm judging.

I know you didn't mean it. And just for the record, I took no offense. I was simply following your statement to its logical conclusion.

You concede that the four possibilities I listed are the only ones. So, if you claim that God doesn't want people falling down, then you must rule out #4 in all instances.

You said it yourself, there are four things it could be. I agree with those four things. We are called to test the Spirits, to see if they are from God. If you have tested your experience, and it is from God, then that is your experience and worthy of praise.

So, then my experience which I relate to you must rule out your conclusion that God doesn't want people falling down? I say God did it.

That was my point... is that at some point you are choosing between what you believe God will do and what someone else has told you God does because those two things conflict.


Again, as you said, there are four options. I think the first three options are far more prevalent than the fourth, IMO. Do I know which is which? No, but I will test the Spirits. That is why I think falling is such a grey area. There are so many false manifestations that it is hard to find the wheat among the tares. That is also why I, personally, separate "Moving of the Spirit" from "Slain in the Spirit." Is it semantics? Probably. But by making the distinction, it helps me to test the Spirits, and separate the wheat from the tares.


I understand and agree with much of this. Certainly, there is a lot of faking and deception out there. It's things like this that cause me to identify as "post-charismatic".

I think the only thing we actually disagree on is whether falling down goes into the "slain in the Spirit" or the "moving of the Spirit" category. I'd say it is a genuine move of the Holy Spirit in some instances.

But it's the same for any other Spiritual encounter or gift. People fake tongues and prophecy but we don't automatically rule out all tongues and prophecy as false because of it.

[JAS4Yeshua]

Instead of commenting on every point in your last post, Tamara, since we have found some basis for agreement through it, I'm just going to the parts that still offer discussion. :)

So, then my experience which I relate to you must rule out your conclusion that God doesn't want people falling down? I say God did it.

That was my point... is that at some point you are choosing between what you believe God will do and what someone else has told you God does because those two things conflict.

I understand and agree with much of this. Certainly, there is a lot of faking and deception out there. It's things like this that cause me to identify as "post-charismatic".

I think the only thing we actually disagree on is whether falling down goes into the "slain in the Spirit" or the "moving of the Spirit" category. I'd say it is a genuine move of the Holy Spirit in some instances.

But it's the same for any other Spiritual encounter or gift. People fake tongues and prophecy but we don't automatically rule out all tongues and prophecy as false because of it.
Agreed. I would have to rule out God not wanting people to fall down. I would also agree that in some instances that might happen by a Moving of the Spirit. The problem still comes back to the other three points you mentioned.

You say that people fake other Spiritual things (like tongues). I agree with you completely on that. There is a big difference, though, between tongues and falling down. Tongues is clearly taught in Scripture. Falling down is not. The gifts are clearly Scriptural, and can't be thrown out. Falling has no support one way or the other. For that reason, it remains in a grey area. What could be, in some instances, a movement of the Holy Spirit, has, in many instances, become a perversion of the Truth, that has no Scriptural grounds one way or the other.

Of course, that being said, I do recognize that there are a lot of things that we do, teach, and say that have no Scriptural grounds, and that do get perverted as well. I don't want to fall into a trap of legalism, for that is never my goal nor intention.

I gracefully acknowledge that the falling could happen by a Moving of the Spirit, along with kneeling, singing, crying, etc. I just think that anything attributed to the Spirit (especially Slain in the Spirit) should be very carefully weighed, and the tares should be thrust away from the wheat and burned.

[geetrue]

I like what Lester Sumerall said about being slain in the spirit. He was 83 years old when I last saw him at his birthday party in Escondido, California.

I know he passed away not long afterwards, but he said he was tired of lining everyone up to be touched by him and then everyone falls down. Then he said they get back up and 15 minutes later they are right back to who they were before.

He said the Lord was leading him to just call out to a few people in the audience that were having problems and then they should raise their hands and come forward if it was them. He called out the specific problems that someone was having and sure enough they stood up came forward and he ministered to them.

I think this is a lot better way of touching people with the power of God than laying hands on everyone.

[talitha]

I think God moves in many different ways, and it's not always up to us to decide how He will move.

[synger]

The term "slain in the Spirit", if I recall, comes from the first chapter of the Revelation of God to St. John, where Johns says, "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead." From my experience (which is, in this matter, very limited) it is not just falling down. It is being so overwhelmed with the Spirit that one cannot move, or talk, or DO anything. The "holy laughter" phenomenon is like it, in a way... it is a physical release, a manifestation of a emotion and reaction that cannot be held in. One I see more often than laughter, actually, is tears. Tears of joy, tears of repentence, tears of reaction to being touched by the Spirit of God.

I've never been "slain in the spirit" in the manner I've seen others -- in worship services, where it is not only accepted, but expected and sometimes encouraged. To me it's like tongues... a personal thing rather than something for corporate worship (but that also has to do with the fact that I attend a church that does not have traditionally "charismatic" services).

However, the three times in my life when I have been totally and completely overwhelmed by God's presence, I could not move. I still stood, but I could easily have fallen with the least provocation.

One was in middle school, when I was allowed to go into the pipe room of an organ, while the organist played. In that dark, small space, I was filled with a weeping joy as I considered the beauty of music that God had given us. I was the music, and each beat of my heart in throbbing concert with the organ notes was a love song from God. I could not move. I could not speak. I could barely breathe. All I could do was feel, and cry, and love.

But I didn't fall down.

So, was I "slain in the Spirit"? *shrugs* Not sure. I doubt it matters. It was God's gift to me.

The second was in college, when I was doing mission work during vacation down in Haiti. Up in the mountains, on the peak overlooking a cliff to the ocean, I was struck by the unutterable beauty of it all. Amidst all the squalor and poverty and violence-torn background of that unhappy country, God touched me. Again, I could not move. I could do nothing but marvel. I did not fall down. When I could begin to move again, I could do nothing but sing. And so I did. How Great Thou Art still reminds me of that moment.

So do I believe one can be slain in the spirit? I'm not sure. I don't see it as formulaic as I see it on TV. But I do believe that when God speaks directly to us in an overwhelming voice of beauty or pain or holiness (as opposed to the still small voice He usually uses, so we can handle it), we can do nothing but bask in His glory, and our bodies will do as they will. If that means they fall, they fall.

[talitha]

I've never been "slain in the spirit" in the manner I've seen others -- in worship services, where it is not only accepted, but expected and sometimes encouraged. To me it's like tongues... a personal thing rather than something for corporate worship (but that also has to do with the fact that I attend a church that does not have traditionally "charismatic" services).
Maybe - although I had to hold on to the pew in front of me once when I was in a Catholic church and the elements of Eucharist were being carried down the aisle past me..... I will not discount that. I did not expect the Holy Spirit's breath at that time.....

....a love song from God. I could not move. I could not speak. I could barely breathe. All I could do was feel, and cry, and love.

But I didn't fall down.

So, was I "slain in the Spirit"? *shrugs* Not sure. I doubt it matters. It was God's gift to me. [/quote]
I think maybe we get into trouble when we seek to label and codify experiences with God. Nothing wrong with the labeling - people do that - but then other people come along and say that because the label isn't from scripture, the experience wasn't from God. Pishposh. Your experience, and mine, and Tamara's, and John's, etc. - these are from God.

we can do nothing but bask in His glory, and our bodies will do as they will. If that means they fall, they fall.
amen!

[The Lord is my banner]

Some really beauitiful testimonies here of the Lord's wonderful touch on your lives.

I read a book on healing by Francis MacNutt where he described an experience called "Resting in the Spirit." That fits much more comfortably than slain for me - as some have said, slain depicts violence, death, not at all a happy association for most folks!

When He touched me this way the first time I resited the feeling of falling - my legs wobbled and I stunmbled backwards, but was afraid. In the end He dropped me to my knees so suddenly and so lightly I was astonished to find myself on the floor!

Then I lay there resting for a few mintes, and after a while tried to get up and couldn't.

I realised God had me right where He wanted me while he performed some "surgery" and that started the laughter bubbling up inside in a most delightful way.
I laughed for joy and wonder, and I would stop for a bit, but then He would tickle me with His delight again and I wouldn't be able to stop, nor did I want to.


I would NEVER have made a spectacle of myself, and if you'd told me this was to happen to me I'd never have believed it. But it was SO releasing and healing. I felt so clean and peaceful afterwards, and still giggly too, for several days.

My Daddy just swept me up off my feet, laid me down to rest, and showed me yet another sweet and glorious way He can bless us with His love.

[NewSong]

Some really beauitiful testimonies here of the Lord's wonderful touch on your lives.

I read a book on healing by Francis MacNutt where he described an experience called "Resting in the Spirit." That fits much more comfortably than slain for me - as some have said, slain depicts violence, death, not at all a happy association for most folks!

When He touched me this way the first time I resited the feeling of falling - my legs wobbled and I stunmbled backwards, but was afraid. In the end He dropped me to my knees so suddenly and so lightly I was astonished to find myself on the floor!

Then I lay there resting for a few mintes, and after a while tried to get up and couldn't.

I realised God had me right where He wanted me while he performed some "surgery" and that started the laughter bubbling up inside in a most delightful way.
I laughed for joy and wonder, and I would stop for a bit, but then He would tickle me with His delight again and I wouldn't be able to stop, nor did I want to.


I would NEVER have made a spectacle of myself, and if you'd told me this was to happen to me I'd never have believed it. But it was SO releasing and healing. I felt so clean and peaceful afterwards, and still giggly too, for several days.

My Daddy just swept me up off my feet, laid me down to rest, and showed me yet another sweet and glorious way He can bless us with His love.
I agree with you about never would have made a deliberate spectacle of myself.

Also, I like the term "Resting in the Spirit."

Thank you so much for sharing. :hug:'s

[Girly3302]

In regards to being slain in the Spirit:

For my part I believe it to be a valid experience. I say this because it happened to my wife (Cathy) in our living room while I was praying for her once in 1982.

(At the time I didn’t even know there was such an experience)

Having said that, I can certainly understand why some would not accept it especially in light of the abuses and “Tom Foolery” associated with the practice.

I do not find a clear example of this in the bible, nor do I find that the word speaks against it.

Since I have some degree of personal experience with this I am not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water. I will concede however that the bath is very dirty and it is difficult at this point to grasp the infant therein.

John O.

Are there any supporting verses in the New Testament concerning being slain in the Spirit?
Is being slain in the Spirit a 20th century phenomenon?

[jeolmstead]

Are there any supporting verses in the New Testament concerning being slain in the Spirit?
Is being slain in the Spirit a 20th century phenomenon?
I personally know of no scriptures that outline this experience as it seems to be manifest in the Charismatic church.

However, I do not believe one can systematically discount this experience because it is not specifically described in scripture. Nor do I think we need to practice things just because Jesus or the apostles did it. I know of no one who goes around spitting in the mud and applying mud to the eyes of blind people. I’ve seen no one make a ministry of walking on water or multiplying fish and loaves either.

Neither do I think that because something appears to be foolish it must be dismissed. God often times asked His people to do what would appear to us (and them) as foolish.

These things have to be discerned spiritually.

As I have already stated, this happened to my wife by the power of God while I was praying for her. Frankly, I do not care if I’m believed or not. The man with the experience is not subject to the man with the argument.

The truth is people need to have their own experience with God anyway. We do not need to live off of anyone else’s. If this happens to you in a meeting, or in your living room, then you’ll know.

John O.

[~RENEE~]

Here are some verses used to explin the term slain in the spirit.

Mt 17:6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified.
Mt 17:7 But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.”
Mt 17:8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus. (NIV)

2Ch 5:13 The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang:
“He is good; his love endures forever.” Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud,
2Ch 5:14 and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the temple of God. (NIV)

Mt 28:4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. (NIV)

Ac 9:4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
Ac 9:5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.
Ac 9:6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
Ac 9:7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.
Ac 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. (NIV)

[NorrinRadd]

Here are some verses used to explin the term slain in the spirit.

Mt 17:6-8 ...

2Ch 5:13-14 ...

Mt 28:4 ...

Ac 9:4-8 ...

The problem is, none of those come particularly close to fitting the phenomenon that is actually occurring in meetings today.

One looks in vain for examples of people falling backward en masse, or falling when hands are laid on them.

Realizing that was one of the many things that caused me to leave my old church. We considered ourselves "Word" people, and had "proof-texts" for everything. But the more I paid attention to the actual wording and context, the more I found them to be "DISproof-texts."

[Lavenderain]

Maybe - although I had to hold on to the pew in front of me once when I was in a Catholic church and the elements of Eucharist were being carried down the aisle past me..... I will not discount that. I did not expect the Holy Spirit's breath at that time.....

....a love song from God. I could not move. I could not speak. I could barely breathe. All I could do was feel, and cry, and love.

But I didn't fall down.

So, was I "slain in the Spirit"? *shrugs* Not sure. I doubt it matters. It was God's gift to me.
I think maybe we get into trouble when we seek to label and codify experiences with God. Nothing wrong with the labeling - people do that - but then other people come along and say that because the label isn't from scripture, the experience wasn't from God. Pishposh. Your experience, and mine, and Tamara's, and John's, etc. - these are from God.


amen![/QUOTE]
Hey I felt that too before, i know what your talking about.
Its like his love hits you so hard in your heart that it could knock you over!

[indagroove]

Hate to dredge up an older treat, but....:)

I used to see this on tv and always thought some people can be so dramatic. I had never witnessed this in person.

Our church sponsered a teacher for a 3 day conference in our city. He was an awesome speaker mostley on Restoration of Gos Kingdom, and the power of the Holy Spirit.

It was an awesome weekend as the prasie and worship was awesome, as some local artists performed. The Spirit was definely present.

On the last day he asked everyone to come up front so he could touch us and pray for us, and the Kingdom movement in our city.

I watched as a few people went down to the floor. A couple of guys from my church were catching them. I thought, they must be in this. Then I started thinking, man, I am going to look like a fool because I'm not playing that. SO I blocked that our and closed my eyes and just concentrated on praising, and singing. I rmemeber him touching my head. By that time I had tears streaming. I just kept prasing God and I rmemeber my knees bucking a little. I do not remember going down, just remember coming to on the floor, crying.... with joy.

ON a side note. My kids freaked out. On of the 9 year olds left the room because she said I embarrashed her :) They thought I had a heart attack. On the way home my wife said, so honey, were you slain in the Spirit? Until that point, I had never even heard the term "Slain in the Spirit". I was also informed I spoke a little tongue. Which I do not recall, and have never done, before, or since.

It was that weekend that the true Power of the Spirit was revealed to me.

God is Great !

[jeolmstead]

Hate to dredge up an older treat, but....:)

I used to see this on tv and always thought some people can be so dramatic. I had never witnessed this in person.

Our church sponsered a teacher for a 3 day conference in our city. He was an awesome speaker mostley on Restoration of Gos Kingdom, and the power of the Holy Spirit.

It was an awesome weekend as the prasie and worship was awesome, as some local artists performed. The Spirit was definely present.

On the last day he asked everyone to come up front so he could touch us and pray for us, and the Kingdom movement in our city.

I watched as a few people went down to the floor. A couple of guys from my church were catching them. I thought, they must be in this. Then I started thinking, man, I am going to look like a fool because I'm not playing that. SO I blocked that our and closed my eyes and just concentrated on praising, and singing. I rmemeber him touching my head. By that time I had tears streaming. I just kept prasing God and I rmemeber my knees bucking a little. I do not remember going down, just remember coming to on the floor, crying.... with joy.

ON a side note. My kids freaked out. On of the 9 year olds left the room because she said I embarrashed her :) They thought I had a heart attack. On the way home my wife said, so honey, were you slain in the Spirit? Until that point, I had never even heard the term "Slain in the Spirit". I was also informed I spoke a little tongue. Which I do not recall, and have never done, before, or since.

It was that weekend that the true Power of the Spirit was revealed to me.

God is Great !
Praise God!

It has never happened to me, but, It did happen to my wife once while I was praying for her.

As discussed earlier in this thread, I think that there is a lot of “Tom foolery” in this area, and I can see why some are skeptical (Not a bad thing)

But,

The man with the experience knows what he knows and is not subject to the man with the argument.

John O.

[lismore]

Some people say the Hebrew word for 'glory' also means 'weight', therefore when the Glory of the Lord comes, it fills the air, the atmosphere gets heavy and you fall down!

Anyone know if this is true?

:wave:

[Jeffwo]

It is timely for me to see this post here because I had had a discussion on another part of the forum about falling under the power/presence of God just the other day.

I , myself have fallen before but it has been a long time ago but this past Sunday night, we had a visiting minister (Rev. Mark White in case anyone might know him) and as he was preaching he asked me if he could pray for me. I have been really praying, seeking God about a situation and I guess he sensed it in the spirit or whatever (well, in fact he mentioned the situation as he prayed for me).

He told me to step out in the aisle but he never left the pulpit. As he was praying for me I had it in the back of my mind that I was "NOT" going to fall. I was not gonna be involved in any fake manifestation. Well, the next thing I knew I was on the floor, laying in a rather undignified position. I went to move my legs and arms to at least not look so retarded. I could not move a muscle, not even my pinkie. I could hear everything and all but it was like I weighed 2,000 lbs. So, I just relaxed and allowed God to minister to me.

What a sweet peaceful feeling I experienced. I knew I had honestly had a visitation of the presence of the Holy Spirit. (in me, on me....it is so hard to explain spiritual things in human terms)

[The Lord is my banner]

What a sweet peaceful feeling I experienced. I knew I had honestly had a visitation of the presence of the Holy Spirit. (in me, on me....it is so hard to explain spiritual things in human terms)

Isn't He wonderful? :clap:

[Jeffwo]

Isn't He wonderful? :clap:
Amen!

[ANM29]

Hate to dredge up an older treat, but....:)

I used to see this on tv and always thought some people can be so dramatic. I had never witnessed this in person.

Our church sponsered a teacher for a 3 day conference in our city. He was an awesome speaker mostley on Restoration of Gos Kingdom, and the power of the Holy Spirit.

It was an awesome weekend as the prasie and worship was awesome, as some local artists performed. The Spirit was definely present.

On the last day he asked everyone to come up front so he could touch us and pray for us, and the Kingdom movement in our city.

I watched as a few people went down to the floor. A couple of guys from my church were catching them. I thought, they must be in this. Then I started thinking, man, I am going to look like a fool because I'm not playing that. SO I blocked that our and closed my eyes and just concentrated on praising, and singing. I rmemeber him touching my head. By that time I had tears streaming. I just kept prasing God and I rmemeber my knees bucking a little. I do not remember going down, just remember coming to on the floor, crying.... with joy.

ON a side note. My kids freaked out. On of the 9 year olds left the room because she said I embarrashed her :) They thought I had a heart attack. On the way home my wife said, so honey, were you slain in the Spirit? Until that point, I had never even heard the term "Slain in the Spirit". I was also informed I spoke a little tongue. Which I do not recall, and have never done, before, or since.

It was that weekend that the true Power of the Spirit was revealed to me.

God is Great !

:amen:..God has a way of putting us to shame when we think we have seen it all and done it all.............He is awesome.....:clap:.....He sure has put me to shame a time or two......

[ANM29]

It is timely for me to see this post here because I had had a discussion on another part of the forum about falling under the power/presence of God just the other day.

I , myself have fallen before but it has been a long time ago but this past Sunday night, we had a visiting minister (Rev. Mark White in case anyone might know him) and as he was preaching he asked me if he could pray for me. I have been really praying, seeking God about a situation and I guess he sensed it in the spirit or whatever (well, in fact he mentioned the situation as he prayed for me).

He told me to step out in the aisle but he never left the pulpit. As he was praying for me I had it in the back of my mind that I was "NOT" going to fall. I was not gonna be involved in any fake manifestation. Well, the next thing I knew I was on the floor, laying in a rather undignified position. I went to move my legs and arms to at least not look so retarded. I could not move a muscle, not even my pinkie. I could hear everything and all but it was like I weighed 2,000 lbs. So, I just relaxed and allowed God to minister to me.

What a sweet peaceful feeling I experienced. I knew I had honestly had a visitation of the presence of the Holy Spirit. (in me, on me....it is so hard to explain spiritual things in human terms)

^_^..God is so awesome......

[Templedweller]

They couldn't stand in Jesus Presence when He said I am He

Nor could they stand in the temple at times in the Old Tesatment

[MoNiCa4316]

I think that at times this is a valid experience....I think if you look at the results it had on you, that's how you'll know. By the 'fruits'. There are some stories I've heard where the 'fruits' were definitely of the Holy Spirit, so that means the experience was too! :thumbsup: I think the problem is when people either seek 'emotional experiences' instead of God, or when pastors make a show out of it and push people down, etc.

I don't think I've ever been 'slain in the Spirit'...well once I was in my room and I was praising God, and suddenly I just felt His presence all around me...I felt such peace, it was pretty amazing. And I found it difficult to stand and went down on my knees. But I remained fully conscious, and just enjoying His presence ;)

God bless!

monica

[Andry]

A resurrected thread, yet after almost a hundred posts, very few Scriptures have been posted thus far.

A Scripture that has not bee posted yet, and IMO, the clearest example of being "slain in the Spirit" can be found in 1 Sam 26, when David and Abishai snuck down to Saul's encampment.......

Verse 8: Then Abishai said to David, “Today God has delivered your enemy into your hand; now therefore, please let me strike him with the spear to the ground with one stroke, and I will not strike him the second time.” 9 But David said to Abishai, “Do not destroy him, for who can stretch out his hand against the LORD’S anointed and be without guilt?” 10 David also said, “As the LORD lives, surely the LORD will strike him, or his day will come that he dies, or he will go down into battle and perish.

11 “The LORD forbid that I should stretch out my hand against the LORD’S anointed; but now please take the spear that is at his head and the jug of water, and let us go.” 12 So David took the spear and the jug of water from beside Saul’s head, and they went away, but no one saw or knew it, nor did any awake, for they were all asleep, because a sound sleep from the LORD had fallen on them. [Emphasis mine]

The whole army were asleep – in a deep sleep from the Lord. In other words, in plain English, IMO, they were "slain in the spirit" - none of them could wake up, because God was the one who put all the men to sleep.

IMO, "slain in the Spirit" is Christianese to describe 'an encounter' or 'an experience' with God. What happens when we have an encounter with God can be manifested in differents ways with different people. I know some very incredible believers - mature, fruitful - who have never done 'carpet time' regardless of who prays for them. In contrast, I also know of those who are seemingly 'slain' at the slightest breath, yet are continuously rebellious, immature, and babes.

But whether we are doing 'carpet time' or not, if there is no fruit that comes out of our lives from those experiences, IOW, if it doesn't change us for the better, we have to be willing to question the validity of it for us personally.

[whatfor]

Very interesting thread.
I haven't had had it (whatever it is) happen to me yet.
But it is a common thing at our church.
I have almost gone down while praying for others to be healed , but it didn't happen.
I recently prayed for healing for about 8 people during a service and all but 1 went down, I didn't push any and the one that didn't fall was in a wheel chair.I wasn't expecting any to fall, but they fell as I prayed for each of them.
I have been catching them numerous times.
I asked our pastors about it and they said they can pick the fakes, they move if they fall wrong and are uncomfortable.

I have only been saved 1 year and had never seen this before, but must add that before then I would not have believed in healings, tongues,prayer working,and all the other things I have now experienced.
I understand those who don't see it as real but I feel it is real, like most things until it happens to you it's hard to believe.

I don't have any scripture to back it up , but I don't for a lot of the feelings I have felt either.

[ydouxist]

It has never happened to me but it has happened to some people I have prayed for.

When they came to arrest Jesus some say his captors were slain in the spirit.

Jhn 18:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=18&verse=6&version=kjv#6)
As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground.

[Barrie...]

I went to some charismatic meetings as a teen.. I was a very skeptical teen.. and people were going up to a priest.. getting prayed for, and falling down.. I said to myself, I am not one of those weak willed people.. I will make a fool out of this priest .. I'm not falling down on the floor!" .. so I went up to be prayed for.. the priest looked at me and sighed audibly.. and he prayed for me for a short time, touched my forhead as light as a feather.. and I hit the floor like a ton of bricks..

[KenBrauckmann]

My problem with the 'slain in the spirit' effect is the 'reality' of it. I have noticed a couple of things:

1 - Similarity in some cases to a hypnotic trance. People will come up, be prayed for and go down almost 'on cue'.

2 - (related) many people come up week after week for prayer, get slain and come back WITH NO CHANGE in the matter. (e.g., the pastor prayed for release from a demon/ besetting sin, etc.)

Now, there are many who will get prayer, fall and there IS change in their lives: greater submission to God, for example. My problem is the one like this guy F. who always has a problem, gets prayer, goes stiff as a board, falls backwards and returns the next week for the same thing: sometimes the same problem!

I admit that I have NOT been knocked down, (there WERE 2 incidents where I knew God was saying to Trust Him and 'fall back' to 'prove it' (to Him or to me, I am not sure??) and I did so consciously) but I am the 'oddball' in this mater at our church.

Oh - my qualification to 'critique' the matter? I am the 'designated catcher' in the prayer tea, so I see how people fall and whether there is change week after week.

Ken - the one who just hid from the flying objects now being thrown!

[robbymac]

My problem with the 'slain in the spirit' effect is the 'reality' of it. I have noticed a couple of things:

1 - Similarity in some cases to a hypnotic trance. People will come up, be prayed for and go down almost 'on cue'.

2 - (related) many people come up week after week for prayer, get slain and come back WITH NO CHANGE in the matter. (e.g., the pastor prayed for release from a demon/ besetting sin, etc.)

Now, there are many who will get prayer, fall and there IS change in their lives: greater submission to God, for example. My problem is the one like this guy F. who always has a problem, gets prayer, goes stiff as a board, falls backwards and returns the next week for the same thing: sometimes the same problem!

I admit that I have NOT been knocked down, (there WERE 2 incidents where I knew God was saying to Trust Him and 'fall back' to 'prove it' (to Him or to me, I am not sure??) and I did so consciously) but I am the 'oddball' in this mater at our church.

Oh - my qualification to 'critique' the matter? I am the 'designated catcher' in the prayer tea, so I see how people fall and whether there is change week after week.

Ken - the one who just hid from the flying objects now being thrown!
Yeah, there are always some people who just like to do the routine, even including falling every week without any noticable change later!

I've been "knocked over" by the Spirit's power numerous times, although I'm one of those "I'm not going down unless it's the Spirit, so get your heavy hands off my forehead" kinda guys. Still, I've experienced "the real thing" quite a few times, and I know God has been jolting my character more towards that of His Son.

For those who come forward everyweek, and nothing seems to change -- isn't it funny that it's not unlike people going to Confession at a Catholic Mass to get "cleaned up" from a week of riotous living, only to go back and live the same way the following week.

OTOH, since we all agree that we need to be continually re-filled with the Spirit, it also kinda makes sense that even the most immature of us might go forward every week if possible?