Rant

[JustinHesychast]

Forgive me, and allow me to rant, please.

I can't stand my mother. And this goes beyond those petty normal teenage/parent arguments (though we do have those). I'm just so sick of her. She makes me depressed. She makes me cry. She makes me angry. I feel like I hate her and I'm 75 miles away from her! She is so opposed to me trying to live a Christian life because of that "God-forsaken word" - Orthodox. She won't let me do anything where the name is even mentioned. She despises it. She doesn't even try to learn about it, thus learning about me. She gets angry all too easily.

I started thinking about moving with my dad. But I love my high school and now we're adopting a girl. So I'm stuck with her and I can't take it. I lose my faith and get sad all too often because of her. It's just not worth it. Sometimes I wanna be agnostic and say screw it, let her see what she thinks of that. But my stupid better sense gets the best of me.

Blah. T_T :cry: :mad:

There. Finished with my ignorant petty ridiculous ranting. Thanks. v_V (this is what you get for allowing a petty hormonal teenager on the forums :P) T_T

[cobweb]

Try to step back a minute and look at it from a different perspective. Do you think that she cares about you? From what you have said about her before I get the feeling that she does... even if she disagrees with you.

It is your job to love and respect your mother as Scripture commands. What will she know of Orthodoxy if all she sees is rebellion? Pray for God to give her wisdom and patience. Show her that the effect of your Faith is love. Be obedient.

Try to remember that this is only temporary. You have 2 years until you are a legal adult. There have been many who have suffered torture and martyrdom for their faith. Respecting your mother's (who seems to care for you) rules for 2 years doesn't seem so bad.

[ma2000]

My prayers.

[Anhelyna]

hang in Justin ,

We don't mind you ranting and venting here - it's better than blowing your top at your Mother.

I hate to sound really old [ well I am :P ] but this time will pass - I promise you it will.

Carry on venting here - we will understand

[Macarius]

Forgive me, and allow me to rant, please.

I can't stand my mother. And this goes beyond those petty normal teenage/parent arguments (though we do have those). I'm just so sick of her. She makes me depressed. She makes me cry. She makes me angry. I feel like I hate her and I'm 75 miles away from her! She is so opposed to me trying to live a Christian life because of that "God-forsaken word" - Orthodox. She won't let me do anything where the name is even mentioned. She despises it. She doesn't even try to learn about it, thus learning about me. She gets angry all too easily.

I started thinking about moving with my dad. But I love my high school and now we're adopting a girl. So I'm stuck with her and I can't take it. I lose my faith and get sad all too often because of her. It's just not worth it. Sometimes I wanna be agnostic and say screw it, let her see what she thinks of that. But my stupid better sense gets the best of me.

Blah. T_T :cry: :mad:

There. Finished with my ignorant petty ridiculous ranting. Thanks. v_V (this is what you get for allowing a petty hormonal teenager on the forums :P) T_T
I would offer two things:

1) This is temporary. You will not always be under your mother's authority. This is permanent, though, in the sense that she will always be your mother. During the later high school years, though, the emotions and the breaking away can be extremely difficult. No conflict is "normal teenage stuff" - I'm convinced the "normal teenage stuff" has it's roots in real conflict and the inability of the individuals involved to resolve it. Some of that is hormones and growing in emotional maturity on your part, but a lot of it is on her as well to recognize the validity of your feelings and to respect you as a person capable of making choices she disagrees with. She does this all the time with her friends, but it is much much harder with one's child.

2) Distance and time will help. Remember, she is a person - fallible, and imperfect. She's trying to grow and learn, the same as you, and she has a unique perspective. She's got her own pain from her past she's probably dealing with, and has a lot of emotion and heart invested in her faith and her child that guides her actions. I'm not saying agree with her, but try not seeing her as your mother - rather as another deeply flawed human being in need of love and healing. Stand your ground, but give her time to grow.

With prayer and in Christ,
Macarius

[JustinHesychast]

Maybe I'll take a sudden "turn". Ask her to do drugs and drink (she said she'd let me drink in her house and get drunk just once). Ask her to buy me condoms. Then, after she does, let her "accidentally" find a gay porn magazine next to my bed.

See what she thinks then. V_v

[Monica, child of God]

Umm...Don't do that.

M.

[JustinHesychast]

It'd make her beg for me to go back to wanting to be Orthodox. v_V

Plus, well, I've always wanted to get drunk. Just once. And it may as well be in the safety of my own home.

[Mysterium_Fidei]

Your mom would rather have you drunk than Orthodox? There really isn't any logic in that at all, although I'm sure you know that.

Anyway, just continue praying for her. You two are still in my prayers.

[Monica, child of God]

It'd make her beg for me to go back to wanting to be Orthodox. v_V

Plus, well, I've always wanted to get drunk. Just once. And it may as well be in the safety of my own home.

I think you are mostly joking but here are the reasons why you shouldn't do it:

1) It is manipulative. Instead of praying and hoping that the Holy Spirit will change her heart, you are taking matters into your own hands and trying to force an outcome. It would be better to trust God and pray. Respect your mom enough to allow her the time she needs to come to terms with your decisions.

Taking a manipulative approach also bypasses anything that God may be trying to teach you through this experience. The whole point of becoming Orthodox is to further theosis. Waiting and persevering even suffering is a part of salvation.

2) Getting drunk is a sin. It is a misuse of alcohol and your body. Alcohol is not made for drunkeness.

3) You are too young to drink. Laws vary from country to country but in the US the legal age is 21. Your mom could be arrested for allowing you to drink in her home.

4) Buying porn is wrong. You would be giving money to an unholy industry. You would be opening yourself up to temptation by just picking out the magazine and handling it.

Do you really think God would be pleased by this behavior?

M.

[JustinHesychast]

I'm not really joking.

1) Point taken. I'll ponder on it.
2) But haven't you gotten drunk before? What's life if you haven't got wasted just once? :P
3) That doesn't stop half the teens in my school. :P
4) It's no different than what I do on the internet. >_>;;

*sigh* T_T

[Anhelyna]

Maybe I'll take a sudden "turn". Ask her to do drugs and drink (she said she'd let me drink in her house and get drunk just once). Ask her to buy me condoms. Then, after she does, let her "accidentally" find a gay porn magazine next to my bed.

See what she thinks then. V_v
Justin

minor lecture coming - be warned :)

actually I'm serious

You are really wanting your Mom to see that you are mature - yes ?

You want her to see that you are capable of making a reasoned judgement about things - yes ?

OK - so do you really think she will feel you are mature enough to make your own decisions if you do all that ??

not a chance matey - not a chance

Sorry - but that's the way Moms think

[JustinHesychast]

Not her. She is always saying how I am "not cool" and "why don't you listen to rap?". "Why don't you wear this tight shirt all the girls will love?" (Not like that matters, being a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] and all). T_T

[Jacob4707]

It'd make her beg for me to go back to wanting to be Orthodox. v_V

Plus, well, I've always wanted to get drunk. Just once. And it may as well be in the safety of my own home.

Well, it that's what you want to do, then take a good look at this:

http://www.austell.org/pw/images/water/bluedyeinbowl.jpg

because it's what you're going to be spending a l-o-n-g time looking at:

http://www.eleuthera.com/vomiting.jpg

You will be embracing it as if it were a life preserver.

[Andrew21091]

3) That doesn't stop half the teens in my school.

Don't worry about what others do in your school. Just because half of them drink doesn't mean that makes it ok or cool. I'm in high school too and trust me there are a ton of kid who drink and do drugs and look what that kind of stuff does to people. I refuse to do that kind of stuff because I know it won't please God. Doing all of that stuff won't make you look or act more mature.

[Monica, child of God]

I'm not really joking.

:(

1) Point taken. I'll ponder on it.

Great!

2) ...What's life if you haven't got wasted just once? :P

A little more righteous. A little more like the Theotokos. A little more like Jesus. Do you honestly believe that you can use sin to get closer to God? Sin only wounds us and makes us sicker. It only gives us more to regret before the perfect purity of God.

3) That doesn't stop half the teens in my school. :P

So what? Are you interested in imitating them or imitating Christ and the saints? If not Christ, why do you want to be Orthodox?

4) It's no different than what I do on the internet. >_>;;

But you should be struggling against that not giving into it. If you really think your mom would be more accepting of your inquiry into Orthodoxy if she knew, just tell her without buying porn. It would be more God pleasing to be honest with your mom and say, "I struggle with X. Sometimes it feels overwhelming and I can't fight it. I think pursuing Orthodox Christianity and a life of righteousness is the way to conquer it. I would love to have your blessing." Even if she isn't swayed you won't have sinned.

M.

[Orthosdoxa]

2) But haven't you gotten drunk before? What's life if you haven't got wasted just once? :P

Justin, I am 32 years old, and I have NEVER been drunk. Not even close to it. And I think I have a pretty good life, thankyouverymuch.

My DH had your attitude about it when he was a teenager. He ended up becoming a serious alcoholic, (as once turned into twice, turned into three times, turned into...) nearly dying of alcohol poisoning, not once but TWICE, crashing his car while drunk, losing his license, and spending a year in rehab. When I met him, he was fresh out of rehab, living in his parents basement, trying to get his life back together. Most 24 year old guys have already graduated from college or technical school and are out there making money and having a life. He wasted 6 years of his and nearly lost his life. He did things while drunk that he still has incredible pain, regret, and embarrassment about.

He envies me for never having been drunk.

(And I know what you're thinking - he didn't think it would happen to him, either. I read recently that one third - ONE THIRD~!!!!!!!! - of Americans have or have had a problem with excessive drinking. It CAN and WILL be you, if you start doing stupid things.)

Your attitude worries me. Just don't do it.

[Macarius]

Once a line is crossed, easier to cross again it becomes. Keep yourself from all avenues to the passions, don't let what isn't currently a wound become one.

[Sipahi]

It'd make her beg for me to go back to wanting to be Orthodox. v_V

Plus, well, I've always wanted to get drunk. Just once. And it may as well be in the safety of my own home.

And what happens then? You return to Orthodoxy as suddenly as you abandoned it. Don't you think that would make her see it was all a bluff? And that's the best-case scenario, in worst case she will see through your bluff right away. No, getting wasted just to manipulate her will neither earn you respect nor acceptance, quite the opposite I'd believe.

[Dorothea]

Not her. She is always saying how I am "not cool" and "why don't you listen to rap?". "Why don't you wear this tight shirt all the girls will love?" (Not like that matters, being a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] and all). T_T

:eek: :crosseo:

[Dorothea]

Justin, I am 32 years old, and I have NEVER been drunk. Not even close to it. And I think I have a pretty good life, thankyouverymuch.

My DH had your attitude about it when he was a teenager. He ended up becoming a serious alcoholic, (as once turned into twice, turned into three times, turned into...) nearly dying of alcohol poisoning, not once but TWICE, crashing his car while drunk, losing his license, and spending a year in rehab. When I met him, he was fresh out of rehab, living in his parents basement, trying to get his life back together. Most 24 year old guys have already graduated from college or technical school and are out there making money and having a life. He wasted 6 years of his and nearly lost his life. He did things while drunk that he still has incredible pain, regret, and embarrassment about.

He envies me for never having been drunk.

(And I know what you're thinking - he didn't think it would happen to him, either. I read recently that one third - ONE THIRD~!!!!!!!! - of Americans have or have had a problem with excessive drinking. It CAN and WILL be you, if you start doing stupid things.)

Your attitude worries me. Just don't do it.
I know what you mean. I've never been drunk in my life either. The most I've ever drank is a half a glass of a daiquiri back when I was around 20. Since I've got hypoglycemia, I guess I won't need to worry about thinking about drinking in the future, although I've never really had an interest. Growing up around drinkers (one who drank a bit too much throughout my growing up), and being married to one that calls himself an alcoholic and has to watch himself, and his dad who's an alcoholic, I have kind of a resentment or bitterness about alcohol. :sorry:

[JustinHesychast]

I hate it when I'm wrong. It's just, well, it would be a great way to get back at my mom for her ignorance, stubbornness, and hatefulness.

Boy, I sure am Christ-like. Well on my way to theosis. X_x

[Orthosdoxa]

We fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up, we fall down, we get up...

[JustinHesychast]

Tell me how much sense this makes.

If I want, just tell her, and I can get drunk for the first time in the safety of my own home (just once). Tell her what I want within a decent price range and I can get wasted.

If I want, she will buy me condoms. I just have to ask.

If I want, she will buy me marijuana to try for the first time (just once) or some other drug so I can be high in my own home.

But I can't go to an Orthodox Church???

[Monica, child of God]

Justin, I am really sorry that you are going through this. I think you know that underage drinking, drunkeness, sex outside of marriage and illicit drug use are all wrong. These things draw our attention away from God and holiness. It would be wonderful if all parents raised their children to walk carefully in the world. But the Church teaches us that this world has been twisted and warped by sin and parents sometimes fail their children.

But you must act on the Truth that you know. You must be like Josiah who turned from the sin and idolatry of his own parents to worship God. Even if you don't have the fullness of the Church, you have to show your thanksgiving to God by using whatever prayers and books of Scripture He has given you. Read the Bible. Pray simple prayers. Pray the Psalms. Lift your mind to heaven. I love this verse:

...seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. --Colossians 3:2

and

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you. --Philippians 4:8-9

M.

[Sipahi]

Tell me how much sense this makes.

If I want, just tell her, and I can get drunk for the first time in the safety of my own home (just once). Tell her what I want within a decent price range and I can get wasted.

If I want, she will buy me condoms. I just have to ask.

If I want, she will buy me marijuana to try for the first time (just once) or some other drug so I can be high in my own home.

But I can't go to an Orthodox Church???

Well, why not consider this to be an auspicious incident? Many teens would wound, maim and kill to have as liberal a mother as you. If she would be the mother of just about anyone else, one more soul would be firmly on its path to damnation. But that soul is you, and you can make that not happen.

I advise you to tell your mother, politely but firmly, that you refuse her offers. It's the right thing to do. God wills it!

[Shubunkin]

When I was a teen, my best friend's mother was a shrew to her... until her mom got pregnant and had a baby boy. Then she was all relaxed and contented. Maybe this will be similar to what happens when your little sister comes. Maybe this is what your mother needs to calm down and feel good about herself. Just wait. Maybe it's what you need too. Maybe you need to step back, and relax, and take all of this slower! Nothing wrong with taking your time with anything. You've got more than enough time here.

[SeraphimSarov]

Tell me how much sense this makes.

If I want, just tell her, and I can get drunk for the first time in the safety of my own home (just once). Tell her what I want within a decent price range and I can get wasted.

If I want, she will buy me condoms. I just have to ask.

If I want, she will buy me marijuana to try for the first time (just once) or some other drug so I can be high in my own home.

But I can't go to an Orthodox Church???
As Sipahi said, many teens would kill for a mother like that. You seem to think it's nothing less than a curse. That says a lot about your character.

So put away all this talk of leaving porn laying around and drinking, because you obviously know better than that. I can think of a number of ways that could backfire, up to and including her blaming Orthodoxy for that behavior.

My prayers man. My high school years weren't much fun either, but there is life after it, believe it or not.

[eoe]

No it does not make any sense but that does not mean that you have to wallow in it either.

When you have thought like this - take a few laps around the rope.

[Kristos]

Justin - Your Mom is only trying to protect you. I often wonder how I will deal with these situation with my own children without being overbearing or a hypocrit.

Just don't rush into anything. You have more than enough time left in your life to "try" things.

[Father Gregory]

I don't post very often here ... and by the time I have finished on this one many will probably be thankful that I don't!

Anyways ... Before we start jumping up and down about the 5th commandment let us recall that St. Paul counsels parents (fathers actually) not to provoke their children to resentment, (Ephesians 6:4) and on those grounds I do not believe that we can counsel simply "submit until you're 18." Where in the Scriptures does it say WHEN we come of age?

Anyway that minor point aside, the reality of life is that some parents DO provoke their children to resentment .... I know mine did and I spent the greater part of my teens fighting furiously with my mother. If I hadn't done that I think I would have ended up even MORE messed up in that relationship than I subsequently became. When your mother is still interfering in your life at 29+ (my history) then perhaps you reflect that the breaking of old dysfunctionalities should have happened much earlier.

Also there is all the difference in the world between anger and "sun-going-down" resentment. The trick is to avoid moving from the former to the latter. It's achieved by first acknowledging the anger and having a safety valve to dump all that aggression. Then you get the right perspective ... once the blood has cooled and you can pray again.

Can we also stop being a bit prissy about sex and booze? I am a ripe old 54 but it's not too distant from time from my teens to remember when I myself had one desparate objective ... to get laid. I got drunk once (never again ... horrible experience) but that "zipper moment" had to wait .... I am glad it did. All that though is circumstantial to be honest, so cut the guy some slack. He's trying to be a Christian AND 16. It ain't easy. It is possible though.

[Matrona]

No, we have free will.

1 Timothy 2:4. He wasn't arguing for predestination.

Please refrain from such comments in TAW. Thanks! You also might want to think about changing you name - it's rather offensive.

Sipahi's comment was appropriate to the thread and not at all contradictory to Orthodox theology. Also, he's already changed his name once to avoid offending some TAW posters, most of whom don't seem to have a problem with this one.

[Rowan]

My high school years weren't much fun either, but there is life after it, believe it or not.

Remember this Justin!

It will come in handy...

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. ~Philippians 3:12-14

My prayers. As Fr. Gregory said, it's tough to be a Christian teen (I know I have trouble sometimes).

Pray, pray, and pray some more. :)

[MariaRegina]

I'm not really joking.

1) Point taken. I'll ponder on it.
2) But haven't you gotten drunk before? What's life if you haven't got wasted just once? :P
3) That doesn't stop half the teens in my school. :P
4) It's no different than what I do on the internet. >_>;;

*sigh* T_T

A young person in his early 20s got drunk while on a business trip -- all accidentally because the drinks tasted so good and went down so smoothly.

Anyway, he and his friends had to walk the mile to their hotel in the dark because they couldn't drive the car and didn't want to puke in the taxi.

Then, he sat in the hotel room and drank water continuously to flush the stuff out and keep hydrated.

Yes, alcohol causes massive dehydration and that it why it is so painful with those splitting headaches and body aches like you have a massive viral attack.

Don't do it. It ain't worth the pain.

And then you might just do something really stupid as some people go into a drunken rage or black out and then commit murder or rape. So, you just might wake up in jail even if you get drunk at home.

[SeraphimSarov]

As Fr. Gregory said, it's tough to be a Christian teen (I know I have trouble sometimes).

I'm an old man at 21 and I still haven't gotten over some of the addictions from my teen years. :P I was scared away from Christianity because all I ever heard about was punishment for sin... it seemed like all the Christians I knew were goody two-shoes and couldn't relate to my struggles at all (I may as well tell you that it was pornography, in a big way). Orthodoxy has really shown me what it is to be a Christian... to struggle. In my prayerbook, there is a prayer to God every night that asks to help Orthodox Christians to struggle. It never occurred to me before that Christians should be struggling; I thought you were either perfect after being "saved" or you weren't "saved" at all.

Thank God for Orthodoxy. Still praying for you Justin.

[Protoevangel]

Justin,

All I can say is I wish I had half your integrity when I was your age. God bless you.

[EmperorConstantine]

Don't get drunk, its bad for you.

Liver gets screwed up beyond belief. There's also what Aria mentioned about waking up in a cell.

Teen years are not easy. It seems like sixteen is the worst. So far my sixteenth year was the worst. A lot happened. Looking back, I'm surprised I didn't smoke or drink!

A few things that happened when I was sixteen.

-all the mayhem from my parent's divorce (was in 1996) caught up. Stuff is still not settled, mainly because my mom is uncooperative, but it all caught up to me. I found out things from before the divorce that lead up to it and also things about my mom that I would rather have not known. Stuff she did before she had married my dad.
But that's another story.

-I ran away when I was sixteen. Take it from one who knows: DO NOT DO IT. I rarely type all caps unless it is important, but DO NOT DO IT. I was angry at the world, I was a closet Agnostic, my dad was in Miami, my brother and I had left our mom's house some years before, she was still being a pain in the neck, we were living with our stepmom for the better part of four years while our dad was in Miami. Four years. He's been back since February and thank God for that! Anyway, a lot was going on when I was sixteen. I was very depressed, I didn't do my homework or anything so my stepmom was giving my a hard time for bad grades. I was having issues with a girlfriend who I was dating because I was very depressed. She was a you-know-what in every sense of the word. What did I do about it? I left home on a Monday, came back that Friday. It is a scary world out there. The reason why you shouldn't get drunk, high or any of that is because, really, I doubt any of us are ready to see anything close to the worst that there is.

But to get through all this, you need faith.

There is nothing more important right now than faith. My life has literally turned around since I became Orthodox. I know that you may not have that luxury, but you do have a Spiritual Father.

That is probably the best thing you have going right now is a Spiritual Father. You truly are blessed in that regard. Take advantage of it.

You've been in my prayers for a while and shall remain so, but I can not emphasize this enough: DO. NOT. GET. DRUNK.

God does not put you through anything you can not survive.

If it helps, listen to some Bob Marley. Think of what he is singing about.

[Rowan]

I'm an old man at 21 . . .

hehe :P

...and I still haven't gotten over some of the addictions from my teen years. :P I was scared away from Christianity because all I ever heard about was punishment for sin... it seemed like all the Christians I knew were goody two-shoes and couldn't relate to my struggles at all (I may as well tell you that it was pornography, in a big way). Orthodoxy has really shown me what it is to be a Christian... to struggle. In my prayerbook, there is a prayer to God every night that asks to help Orthodox Christians to struggle. It never occurred to me before that Christians should be struggling; I thought you were either perfect after being "saved" or you weren't "saved" at all.

Thank God for Orthodoxy. Still praying for you Justin.The underlined is a big deal for a lot of youth, teen or otherwise. Some feel they aren't "cut out for it" because they aren't like the godly people they see around them. They think they're going to be judged instead of loved.

[Anhelyna]

Frankly I don't think that Justin will do any of this .

I really think he has too much respect for himself - he knows what is right , and what he should do - but things are getting on top of him .

Justin - you know we love you and trust you to do what is right.

We know you are human and will fall from time to time - but we know you will pick yourself up and give yourself a shake and start all over again.

Life was never meant to be easy - sorry - but that is the truth.

Try and think hard before you do anything - and ask yourself --

"what could happen to me if I did this ?"

[Monica, child of God]

Anyways ... Before we start jumping up and down about the 5th commandment

With respect, who did that in this thread? :scratch:

Can we also stop being a bit prissy about sex and booze?

Is is prissy to encourage a teenager not to sin? :scratch:

I parent two teenagers one of whom has had significant issues with substance abuse including alcohol. Because the world is the way that it is, I really don't think there is any leeway when it comes to early exposure to intoxicating substances. Young people unfortunately drink to get drunk these days which is the worse way to be introduced to alcohol. We need to call a sin a sin here.

And when it comes to sex it is not "prissy" to advocate purity. Yes, kids want to have sex. They are curious. I know. I had my my son when I was 17 years old. I wish someone had encouraged me to take custody of my eyes and practice self control. It seems like you are calling some of us prissy while agreeing with us at the same time which is confusing. :confused:

With all the respect due your office,
Monica

[MariaRegina]

With respect, who did that in this thread? :scratch:



Is is prissy to encourage a teenager not to sin? :scratch:

I parent two teenagers one of whom has had significant issues with substance abuse including alcohol. Because the world is the way that it is, I really don't think there is any leeway when it comes to early exposure to intoxicating substances. Young people unfortunately drink to get drunk these days which is the worse way to be introduced to alcohol. We need to call a sin a sin here.

And when it comes to sex it is not "prissy" to advocate purity. Yes, kids want to have sex. They are curious. I know. I had my my son when I was 17 years old. I wish someone had encouraged me to take custody of my eyes and practice self control. It seems like you are calling some of us prissy while agreeing with us at the same time which is confusing. :confused:

With all the respect due your office,
Monica

A bunch of reps are due for this post!

A powerful piece of writing, Monica.

[Father Gregory]

Dear Monica

I am agreeing with Orthodox Christian morality. What I am gently chiding is the "Now listen here young man" undertone of the some of the posts here. The reference to the 5th commandment related to posts that said (more or less) .... you've only got two years to go before you don't need to submit to the authority of your parents. I just don't recognise that as mutual respect and love ... hence the balancing quote from St. Paul.

In continental Europe ... especially France ... a young man such as Justin would have a glass of wine with his family at the family meal. Responsible consumption of alcohol is thereby taught and practised. Absolute prohibition itself can easily lead to abuse. I suppose it all just depends on what you mean by "early" (in your last post). Binge drinking it should be noted is more a feature of WASP cultures in northern Europe and the US rather than Catholic and Orthodox Mediterranean cultures. Orthodox or not we are more influenced by the ambient culture than we care to admit.

There, I told you why I don't post often here.

[Monica, child of God]

The reference to the 5th commandment related to posts that said (more or less) .... you've only got two years to go before you don't need to submit to the authority of your parents. I just don't recognise that as mutual respect and love ... hence the balancing quote from St. Paul.

I understand what you are saying. But Justin cannot change his mother except through love. She should be doing things differently, but he can't force her to change. He must learn even at his age to heap burning coals on her head by loving and respecting her. He only has control of his own conversion.

That does not mean that he cannot disagree with her or even express that disagreement. But he must learn to balance that disagreement with respect. The Wisdom Scriptures tell us

A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control. --Proverbs 29:11

and

Be angry, and do not sin.
Meditate within your heart on your bed, and be still. --Psalm 4:4

In continental Europe ... especially France ... a young man such as Justin would have a glass of wine with his family at the family meal. Rersponsible consumption of alcohol is thereby taught and practised. Absolute prohibition itself can easily lead to abuse. I suppose it all just depends on what you mean by "early" (in your last post. Binge drinking it should be noted is more a feature of WASP cultures in northern Europe and the US rather than Catholic and Orthodox Medfiteranean cultures. Orthodox or not we are more influenced by the ambient culture than we care to admit.

Yes I understand. I really think the reason many of us reacted strongly is because Justin, a 16 year old, refered to "getting wasted" and smoking marijuana. He did not say his mom invited him to have a glass of wine with dinner. He also refered to the kids at his school and their example. Based on that context, I didn't see anything worthy of encouragement.

We are not "Christian American teetotalers" here in TAW. I know I am not. The fact is that kids are ending up in rehab in this country before they are 21. If this were France or Germany, things may be different, but it is not.

There, I told you why I don't post often here.

Please feel welcome to post here anytime, Father :)

M.

[JustinHesychast]

American should adopt more of Europe's way. The drinking age, combined high schools and colleges, etc.

Of course, I told my dad last night and he told me no. That all of Europe was going to Hell in a handbag. But, he said, so was America.

[Anhelyna]

Well - I have to admit that both my daughters were allowed to drink a little at home from the age of 16 - like a glass of wine with meals from time to time.

It was the way I was brought up too - hundreds of years ago :P

To my mind - this unable to learn how to drink wisely by drinking in the house under very tightly controlled conditions - method just encourages youngsters to go and over-indulge as soon as they are legally able so to do.

[EmperorConstantine]

American should adopt more of Europe's way. The drinking age, combined high schools and colleges, etc.

Of course, I told my dad last night and he told me no. That all of Europe was going to Hell in a handbag. But, he said, so was America.
The thing about Europe, is that they have their alcohol under control. Like Fr. Gregory mentioned in France families would share a bottle of wine. That is the difference between America and Europe in this case is that Europeans just have a sip here, a sip there. Americans have an entire case.

[Monica, child of God]

I totally support learning to drink in moderation at home. Certain things about the US make this hard though. The culture is still present even if you have things under control at home. EC was right on in what he said. Your teen might learn how to drink moderately and appreciate the taste of what he/she imbibes. But he/she may also say at the next party, "Mom lets me drink so I will have a few" and end up worshiping the porcelain god. Teenagers are so much in flux that even the ones you believe to be trustworthy may get caught up in the moment. Then there is the whole date rape phenomenon. Things can get ugly on this side of the pond :(

M.

[Anhelyna]

Things can get very ugly here too.

Speaking as a Mom - and I know you will understand that Monica - all we can do is bring our children up to the best of our ability and hope that they have learnt enough from us .

When they leave home , we worry and fret over them , and we can do nothing except pray for them

[Kristos]

I grew up in Germany and did more binge drinking before I was 15 than most people do in a lifetime. The idea that the "Euro" way is better is not 100% true. My alcohol problems followed me to the States, through high school and into college until I found myself in an alcohol abuse program after being arrested while intoxicated. Why did I drink so much? Besides that I had fun when I was drunk, I can't really say. Obviously, the morning after wasn't much fun, but that didn't stop me. It came very close to ruining my life several times, but thanks to God, I made it.