Why will Fundamentalists only say "Mary" and not "blessed Mary"?

[LivingWordUnity]

When I asked a question about blessed Mary, I was the only one who called her "blessed Mary".

Even after seeing me do this, Fundamentalists would only say "Mary is not this" or "Mary is not that". But they omitted the word "blessed" whenever using her name.

Why is that?

Here is the thread that I’m talking about. Notice the omission of the word “blessed” every time a Fundamentalist uses Mary’s name.
http://www.christianforums.com/t5658387-amen-means-so-be-it-or-let-it-be-done.html

In the Bible, blessed Mary said:

Luke chapter 1, verse 48
"for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed."

[SeraphimSarov]

Wondering the same thing.

[LJSGM]

because I guess they want to seperate themselves from the perversion that it's become to many (Mary worship).

Poor Mary. She was blessed, but now people are afraid to even speak her name unless they be numbered with people who worship Mary. How sad

[SeraphimSarov]

Poor Mary. She was blessed, ...

Uh... is blessed.

[LJSGM]

She WAS blessed to carry the Christ in her womb. But she was just like everyone else, it was Christ that was the Second Adam. I think a lot of people get tripped up over the, "which was first theory," "the chicken or the egg"?

1 Corinthians 15
45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=15&verse=45&version=31&context=verse#fen-NIV-28748a)]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Mary was not concieved of the Holy Spirit as was Christ, she was born naturally, so where is her deity?

[SeraphimSarov]

Mary was not concieved of the Holy Spirit as was Christ, she was born naturally, so where is her deity?

Where in the world do you equate being blessed with deity?

Besides, you're directly contradicting the Bible here. "All generations will call me blessed?" Ring any bells...?

[LJSGM]

Where in the world do you equate being blessed with deity?

Besides, you're directly contradicting the Bible here. "All generations will call me blessed?" Ring any bells...?
Yes, and I did call her blessed that she carried the Christ in her womb. Nothing more then that. Other then the fact that it's blessed to be a believer, which she was ;)

[SeraphimSarov]

Yes, and I did call her blessed that she carried the Christ in her womb.

Ahhh, misunderstood you.

[Rhamiel]

it is to close to Catholic, they have to do these things to show a distinction... likewise many Catholic down play St. Paul because it sounds too "protestant" to talk about him lol. we can be so silly sometimes

[NewGuy101]

Well if Mary is blessed right now I guess I'm blessed newguy.

[SeraphimSarov]

it is to close to Catholic, they have to do these things to show a distinction... likewise many Catholic down play St. Paul because it sounds too "protestant" to talk about him lol. we can be so silly sometimes
Yeah, the Church put St. Paul in the Bible to begin with, so really that doesn't make an ounce of sense... :)

[MrPolo]

Notice the omission of the word “blessed” every time a Fundamentalist uses Mary’s name.

The correct answer is because calling her "blessed" would lend credence to Catholics, who are leaders in demonstrating that Mary would be called blessed by "all generations."

And Fundamentalists who do this do not want to grant Catholics the imitation.

[Cyprian31]

Wow - guess it's time to once again put me foot in me mouth. here goes.

"was" blessed? Gee, I guess it's really no big deal, then, to give birth the Creator of everything? The theotokos IS blessed, regardless of Catholic ideas or Fundamentalist ideas. She chose to accept the awesome responsiblity of being mother to the very God from which all things spring. She chose to obey God (rather like Abraham, or Joseph, or David....) and to not do her own will.

As for the whole blessed = deity thing, where did that come from? By that reasoning, Israel must be the next thing to God Himself, then. I find it funny that king David, or Moses, or even (especially) St. Paul are spoken of in reverential tones, but the Blessed Virgin is mentioned , at most, twice a year.

Shutting up now. Forgive me.

[SeraphimSarov]

Wow - guess it's time to once again put me foot in me mouth. here goes.

"was" blessed? Gee, I guess it's really no big deal, then, to give birth the Creator of everything? The theotokos IS blessed, regardless of Catholic ideas or Fundamentalist ideas. She chose to accept the awesome responsiblity of being mother to the very God from which all things spring. She chose to obey God (rather like Abraham, or Joseph, or David....) and to not do her own will.

As for the whole blessed = deity thing, where did that come from? By that reasoning, Israel must be the next thing to God Himself, then. I find it funny that king David, or Moses, or even (especially) St. Paul are spoken of in reverential tones, but the Blessed Virgin is mentioned , at most, twice a year.

Shutting up now. Forgive me.
Nah, this thread needed it.

[lismore]

Maybe fundamentalists prefer to talk more about Jesus Christ than about Mary?

Not saying that we shouldnt talk about Mary, but any catholic/ orthodox friends here should be aware. A lot of people do have the perception that you have taken veneration or devotion (please forgive me if the terminology is wrong) for Mary beyond what the bible would support and far beyond what they would find acceptable.

Not saying that you have taken it too far, but the perception is there!

God Bless

Lismore

[SeraphimSarov]

Maybe fundamentalists prefer to talk more about Jesus Christ than about Mary?

Kind of skirting the issue though, isn't it? Some protestants flat out refuse to say anything about her at all, lest they sound like a Catholic. It's meet and right to call the Virgin Blessed (and strictly Biblical).

Don't understand what the big deal is. We all know that a lot of people have a problem with veneration of the saints, but that has nothing to do with calling Mary blessed.

[New_Wineskin]

Edited ... I am ashamed of myself for allowing myself to particiapate in the promotion of worshipping humans over the Lord .

I have edited my posts in this thread as a way of washing my hands of the matter .

[david01]

This reminds of a Turkish friend of mine who is a devoit Sunni Muslim. I found it puzzling that he never referred to Mohammed, but always referred to MohammedBlessedBeHisName, as a run-on noun. He understood that I, as an infidel, would only call the Prophet by his given name, Mohammed. In the same way, Protestant Christians refer to biblical people by their given names - Mary, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, David, Moses. etc. In fact, I suspect more than one eyebrow would be raised if I referred to Holy Moses.

[minasoliman]

Well, I have seen many Protestant friends mention people of high exemplary Christian faith and practice to call them holy and blessed. Have we forgotten in our lingo that we ask one another that God may bless you? Surely, it's not a eye opener when one calls people God has blessed and used for our salvation as "holy" and "blessed" and GASP "saints." Are we not as Christians called "saints," which simply means "holy ones?"

There's also a sense of honor and respect that goes along with this. I'm sure everyone here talks not just about my father or my mother, but my "dear" mother and father, in honor of them. No different when we give honor to saints and call them "blessed." It's a matter of humility more than anything.

God bless. (or I suppose if you do not want to be called "blessed" you don't want the blessing, right?)

PS I don't mean to offend, but this is common sense, and no one is worshiping anyone but God. We are only acknowledging their God-given holiness.

[david01]

Perish the thought that we might be called saints (which, as you and I both know is a simple description used far more frequently in scripture to describe believers in Christ than the word Christian). I would be more than happy to address you as a saint or a brother. Better yet that I would treat you as one. Some Protestant churches turn the words brother and sister into regular titles, as in Brother Jones will be leading the singing during the Revival Meetings. Myself, I call my real brother, John, because that is his name. I think it is a cultural thing more than anything else.

[New_Wineskin]

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[minasoliman]

This is why I also added in the end the issue of a matter of honor and respect in the spirit of humility. When I realize and appreciate St. Mary's role in bearing for us the God of our salvation and in addition following what can rightly be considered both her son and her God's footsteps on Calvalry, she continued to be a mother and an exemplary spiritual figure for us all, and just as I honor my parents more than myself, I do the same for her. Keep in mind, everyone here agrees that we don't worship anyone but God alone.

In addition, when you read something like the Magnificat that she sang, it resembles the spirit of the Psalmist David and gives forth her own humility. I think it's important that one reads the words of her song:

My soul doth magnify the Lord.And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble.He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy:As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever.Let us not forget, it is not her that call herself blessed, but rather only prophecies what all generations call her. And in fact, the Angel Gabriel was the first among all generations to call her blessed, "Blessed are you among women." I'm sure if Gabriel, being the Messenger of good news, would not single her out as "blessed among women" if it was such a common thing for all (I'm not saying it's not common, for all Christians are blessed, but he singled her out for a reason as "among women"). Even this Archangel was humbled by the fact that she would carry out in her womb the most important mission for all of humanity's sake, i.e. to safely bring forth and raise God incarnate for our salvation. If you are not convinced by the singling out and respect of Mary by her own words, at least by the words of the Archangel himself who was commissioned by God to send this important message of salvation.

God bless.

[New_Wineskin]

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[minasoliman]

I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. To me, it seems she represented to all of us the single most important mission, which is why I tend to single her out. She is after all "blessed among women." Without her (or whoever God would have chosen to be His own mother), each of us wouldn't be able to be "singled out" to the work of the Church. That is why not only "was" she blessed, but is still blessed today among women. Her "Yes" lead to Christ's incarnation, leading to our salvation. I can hardly imagine the amount of responsibility God entrusted her for such a mission.

You seem to appeal to the "lack" or "scarcity" of mentioning her in Scripture. But that means nothing. A lack or scarcity of something in Scripture does not make that "something" irrelevant. St. John the Forerunner is mentioned as much as the Virgin St. Mary, and Christ considered him as the "best born among women." Likewise, the mention that St. Mary which English texts consider "highly favored one" and the Greek reads "full of grace" means nothing more than repeating it 100 times in Scripture. That fact that it's Scripturally mentioned should insight study.

In fact, the lack or scarcity of mentioning could simply mean this wasn't a problem in the ancient times, that this was some sort of "no brainer", which would force us then to study ancient history and read what ancient Christians had written and interpreted to get an idea of what New Testament Christians believed. A look at ancient Christian history will find a great deal of respect for people like St. Mary, St. John, the Apostles, St. Paul, etc.

God bless.

[New_Wineskin]

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[New_Wineskin]

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[minasoliman]

I think you mistaken the difference between "need" and "truth." "Need" has nothing to do with what we call someone. All that matters is truth. Truth is Scripture shows very clearly the singling out of people like Sts. Mary and John. You just happen to like to ridicule this fact, trying to question as to why I don't call someone "best born." When someone is singled out as "blessed among women" or "best born," how do dismiss their importance is beyond me.

Perhaps a better analogy is the way we give respect to our leaders today. We don't address someone older as Jack, but "Mr." Jones. We don't call our leader "Bush" or "Clinton" but give the appropriate title "President Bush" or "Senator Clinton." A person with a doctorate is given the title "Dr." so-and-so. What about the simple names of "Mom" and "Dad?" I'm sure you understand the disrespect that goes along with simply calling their names. I don't know of any society that does not show proper respect to those who truly have them. In my opinion, it's a shame that people feel a need to not face truth and not realize the disrespect they have to important people of Christian history, while maintaining the respect of contemporary political, social, and familial figures.

God bless.

[New_Wineskin]

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[minasoliman]

There was no inconsistency, and you're also not paying attention. My point was not about the title, but about "singling out" someone which would lead someone to give an exemplary title.

I suppose at this point we'll have to agree to disagree on cultural and social issues. However, there is one thing that you did that I would disagree with:

Her being older is unknown .She was present at the Cross when "her Son" was about 33 years old, where Christ entrusted her care to St. John. I think this alludes to the fact that she was "old." Certainly to me, that's quite "known." Again, is there a "need" to know this? Well that's up to you, but this is truth.

In addition, I've met both Orthodox and Catholics who considered it even more disrespectful to call her merely "St. Mary" but to add "Mother of God" or "Theotokos" to her name. The idea of "blessed" is pretty much the same as calling someone a "saint." I find it hard to believe that you grew up around Catholics who merely called her "Mary." Liturgical practice does not even do this.

So , before trying to get those who are not Orthodox( E and W ) to do something that *some* Orthodox do , how about getting *all* of the Orthodox( E and W) in line , first .

If you're looking to learn about "Mere Orthodoxy," try history. Otherwise, you're only evading the topic.

God bless.

[New_Wineskin]

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[dayhiker]

I don't think that Lk.1:48 is a command to say Mary is blessed ever time one uses her name. I don't think in Mary's day people went around saying blessed Mary as we might say Ms Mary.

That's why I'm not say blessed Mary.

I also don't say brother or sister so and so and I really don't like people to call me Mr. dayhiker. So its a personal thing.

dayhiker

[minasoliman]

I don't think that Lk.1:48 is a command to say Mary is blessed ever time one uses her name. I don't think in Mary's day people went around saying blessed Mary as we might say Ms Mary.

That's why I'm not say blessed Mary.

I also don't say brother or sister so and so and I really don't like people to call me Mr. dayhiker. So its a personal thing.

dayhiker
The verse is obviously not a command. It's an Archangel's form of respect to someone. I think the idea is exemplary, not something to be apathetic about or completely ignore. When you talk to your Pastor, you say "Pastor so and so" or "Reverend so-and-so" or a great choir leader who happens to be a woman, "Sister so-and-so"

This is common sense people. I don't go to Pastor James and say "Hey Jim...how you been?"

[Albion]

In fact, plenty of Fundamentalists do refer to her as Blessed, the Blessed Virgin, etc.

Those who do not are the ones that come from churches that tend not to overdo the terms of regard for anyone, whether that be ministers or heroes of the faith now passed on. I don't think at all that there is any particular intent to denigrate Mary.

As for that Bible verse, I agree with those who have pointed out that this is not a command to always talk in a certain way; when it is said that all ages will call Mary "blessed," it means that she will ever be considered special, not that we are all supposed to include that particular word each time she is mentioned.