Unforgivable sin?

[GodRules22793]

I have a younger sister who is 12. Earlier this year,she sent a boy a text message saying she was so mad ,she could commit suicide.(She was probably mad because my parents wouldn't let her do anything that
day).Anyways,the day after,she went to a friends house.When we went to pick her up,my mother looked sad.I asked why she was sad.She said because suicide is unforgivable.
Is this true?
Are there any verses in the bible that explain it?




:confused:

[GodRules22793]

The boy she sent it to was in the youth group at the church we were visiting.He told the youth pastor,and the youth pastor told our principal(our school is located at a church).Just in case any of you were wondering how my mother found out

[twistedsketch]

Did she die, or did people get to her in time?

[GodRules22793]

She is still alive.I worded it wrong.Let me reword it .
She was so mad ,she felt like killing herself

[jazzypooh]

suicide is the same as murder, so yes it is sin. look up scriptures on murder. God said thou shall not kill. that's plain as day. He never said you can't kill anyone, except yourself.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 says if you destroy the temple of God...which is your body...He will destroy you...that means you go to hell if you kill yourself

the reason it is unforgiveable is because how can you ask God to forgive you if you're dead? there's no repentance for you. God will not be handing out salvation and mercy on the Day of Judgment... so there's no need of her thinking she can ask Him for forgiveness then, because it'll be too late.

you really need to pray for your sister, and talk to her about the consequences of her actions. i have felt like committing suicide too... until a friend began to talk to me about the consequences of doing so. and not just that, but he prayed for me. you have to really pray for her and mean what you say. whenever someone starts talking about death, that is a spirit. and you need to change the subject and talk about something different. don't let her sit around meditating and thinking about dying all day long. take her to the park, out to see a movie, and pray with her and for her. get her to laugh, and study the Bible with her.

sometimes people threaten to do that for attention or to get their way. i'm not saying that's the case with her, and since there's no way to tell, then you ought to take her seriously. and no matter what KEEP PRAYING FOR HER.

God bless you.

[GodRules22793]

I too have felt like killing myself.Thank goodness I didn't.

[twistedsketch]

It's good to hear she is alive. Yes, she can be forgiven.

The only thing that makes suicide unforgivable in the minds of so many Christians is the nature of it. The Lord commanded us not to murder. If one succeeds in murdering one's self, the person is dead and it is too late to repent of that sin, since the time for repentance is when you are alive.

There is another point of view however, which teaches that once someone is a Christian, that person CANNOT lose their salvation no matter what. Therefore a Christian who killed himself or died while committing some other sin would still go to Heaven. This is because when they became a Christian in the past, they were forgiven for all past, present, and future sins.

I personally believe the second view has more Biblical merit, but I believe it is best not to test the Lord when it comes to this. After all, I may be wrong.

[jazzypooh]

i believe you can lose your salvation. the Bible says without holiness no man shall see the Lord. and Jesus said out of His own mouth that only the PURE in heart shall see God. so you can't live any kind of way and think grace is just gonna cover you...

that's just my opinion. i don't believe in eternal security. and like you said, i definitely don't wanna take any chances so... i would not put my trust in that eternal security doctrine. i believe that our salvation is secure as long as our relationship with Christ is maintained. if we fall away that's a whole other story. if we abuse His grace, then that's a whole other story. we can't claim His promises, but not His lifestlye and His commitment and faithfulness. it is wrong to take the life that God has given you. the Bible says He knows the length of our days, so that means He has an ordained time for us to die and He also has a destiny for each of us to fulfill. so for us to cut our life short, is for us to play God in our own lives, and basically screw up the plan that God has for our lives and everyone that our lives were supposed to touch... do you think it is apart of God's plan for you to kill yourself? and if that is not His will for our lives, then why would we do it, and take such a risk on the Day of Judgment? how are you gonna face God with that? how will you respond when He asks you why did you take the precious life He's given you when He was gonna use your life in such an awesome way?

[GenesisGirl]

Mark 3:28: [Jesus said] "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for all their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

Any and all sins can be forgiven except for blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which in essence is hating and yelling at God. It's unforgivable because if somebody truly, deeply hates the Lord, then he won't be able to see how wrong he is anyway.

I think the whole thing about not being able to repent for suicide because you're already dead is picky and makes the Lord sound like a snippy school principal, while He is kind and forgiving and loves each and every human on the planet. I don't think anybody REALLY repents for everything they do -- for instance, stealing a stick of your friends Double Bubble. It's stealing, it's a sin, but do you go to Confession or just feel bad about it?

I hope that helped a little. :) I'll be praying for your sister!

[Zilam]

Mark 3:28: [Jesus said] "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for all their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

Any and all sins can be forgiven except for blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which in essence is hating and yelling at God. It's unforgivable because if somebody truly, deeply hates the Lord, then he won't be able to see how wrong he is anyway.

I think the whole thing about not being able to repent for suicide because you're already dead is picky and makes the Lord sound like a snippy school principal, while He is kind and forgiving and loves each and every human on the planet. I don't think anybody REALLY repents for everything they do -- for instance, stealing a stick of your friends Double Bubble. It's stealing, it's a sin, but do you go to Confession or just feel bad about it?

I hope that helped a little. :) I'll be praying for your sister!

I couldn't have said it better:thumbsup:

[jazzypooh]

Mark 3:28: [Jesus said] "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for all their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

Any and all sins can be forgiven except for blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which in essence is hating and yelling at God. It's unforgivable because if somebody truly, deeply hates the Lord, then he won't be able to see how wrong he is anyway.

I think the whole thing about not being able to repent for suicide because you're already dead is picky and makes the Lord sound like a snippy school principal, while He is kind and forgiving and loves each and every human on the planet. I don't think anybody REALLY repents for everything they do -- for instance, stealing a stick of your friends Double Bubble. It's stealing, it's a sin, but do you go to Confession or just feel bad about it?

I hope that helped a little. :) I'll be praying for your sister!

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Don't you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? God will bring ruin upon anyone who ruins this temple. For God's temple is holy, and you Christians are that temple.

this scripture is pretty clear here. if we destroy God's temple (which is our body), then God will destroy us. if you study the Old Testament and look and see how carefully the tabernacle was cared for and set up it helps to understand how God now views us as His living tabernacles.

I don't think anybody REALLY repents for everything they do -- for instance, stealing a stick of your friends Double Bubble. It's stealing, it's a sin, but do you go to Confession or just feel bad about it?

1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from every wrong.

the reason you think this way is because you don't have a correct understanding of repentance. the Bible says a confession is to be made. that is what this scripture says. we confess to God that we have sinned, and we ask for forgiveness.

repentance is not simply "feeling bad" for your sins. repentance is a way of life. it is a lifestyle. repentance means to turn from sin and turn toward God. that's much deeper than just simply feeling bad about your sin. you can feel bad about a thing, but if your mind is never renewed or changed (which is what true repentance is), then you'll go right back to doing it again. that means you never truly repented in the first place. because true repentance causes your mind to be changed in that area. and that renewal of your mind is what causes you to turn from that sin and turn toward God. so repentance is the only way to stop sin. that's why it is necessary for forgiveness and salvation.

notice how Jesus instructed a lot of peoplet to "go and sin no more." in other words, He was telling them to repent. it's not the same as feeling sorry for doing something. i'm sure the woman caught in adultery felt extremely bad about it (especially since she had been caught), but Jesus never told her to "go and feel bad about what you did", He told her "go and sin no more". He told her not to go and do what she did anymore. He told her to repent. you can feel sorry about stealing something, but that feeling does not cause your mind to be changed about stealing, and because your mind has not been changed then you turn around and steal something again. Romans 12:2 says "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed (or changed) by the renewing (changing) of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." So as our mind is changed, then we are changed. As our soul prospers, we prosper (3 John 2).

it says if we confess our sins to Him, He will forgive us for those sins and cleanse us from them. repentance must precede forgiveness. the Bible says that God cleanses us of sin once we confess it and truly repent of it. so for you to say that no one truly repents is not Biblical. if no one truly repents then no one is truly saved. true repentance is necessary for salvation.

Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

now in the area of suicide, the Bible is clear. this is sin. we are the temple of God. if we destroy God's temple (which is us), then God will destroy us. how can you confess to God that you have committed suicide if you're no longer alive? the dead don't talk! and there is no need for confession at the Judgment, because there's no more mercy for you then.

the reason we view sin this way is because we do not understand how serious sin is in the eyes of God. God is holy. and His holiness causes Him to be just, meaning He must punish sin. sin is so serious in the eyesight of God that He even holds us accountable for unconfessed sin or sin that we are not aware of. this is why David prayed this prayer unto God in Psalm 19:12:

Psalm 19:12
Who can discern his lapses and errors? Clear me from hidden [and unconcious] faults.

this is so important, because sin committed is sin committed, whether we are aware of it or not. David understood this. that is why he made this prayer unto God to forgive him for sins he committed that he was unaware of. so he recognized how serious sin is and how offensive it is to the holy God that we serve.

Leviticus 5:17
If anyone sins and does any of the things the Lord has forbidden, though he was not aware of it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity.

so this lets us know that it does not matter whether or not we are aware of the sin that we commit... we are still guilty of that sin. that's why it's so important that like David, we ask God to clear us of sin that we have committed unconciously. so if God holds us to such an accountability now, why do you think He would hold us to a lesser accountability because we've died (or committed suicide)? His standards remain. He's the same yesterday, today, and forevermore. so even though we are not aware of our trespasses we are still punished for our trespasses. we were born in sin and shaped by iniquity, but now that we have received the knowledge of Truth (of God's Word), then the Bible says that to whom much is given, much is also required (Luke 12:48).

the Bible teaches that when we continue in sin willfully knowing that what we are doing is wrong in the eyesight of God, then we cause God's name to be blasphemed. look at this scripture in Romans:

Romans 2:21-24
Well then, if you teach others, why don't you teach yourself? You tell others not to steal, but do you steal? You say it is wrong to commit adultery, but do you do it? You condemn idolatry, but do you steal from pagan temples? You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it. No wonder the Scriptures say, "The world blasphemes the name of God because of you."

please study these scriptures to help you understand the seriousness of sin and the importance and necessity of repentance:

Leviticus 5:5,17
Numbers 15:27-31
1 John 1:9
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Romans 2:21-24
Luke 13:1-9
Acts 2:38
Acts 17:30-31
2 Peter 3:9
Revelation 3:19
Acts 3:19-20

John the Baptist was a man sent from God to prepare the way of the Lord. and in order for that way to be prepared, repentance was necessary. it is still the same in our lives today. in order for the way of the Lord to be prepared in us (for God to show through us and in our lives), then true repentance is necessary. now God would never require anything of us that His grace does not enabe us to attain. so, yes, true repentance is possible by the grace of God and is necessary in our lives.

Yes Jesus did say that we can be forgiven for all our sins, but that is not all that He said. check out what He said in Luke 13:3. He says, "...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." so it is important to note ALL that the Bible teaches so that we get the most accurate view of these things.


when trying to understand the seriousness of sin, think about it this way: sin is so serious in the eyesight of God that He sent His only Son to die because of it. He broke up His family in heaven, to do something about the sin down here on earth. that's how much it catches His attention. that's how serious it is to Him.

I think the whole thing about not being able to repent for suicide because you're already dead is picky and makes the Lord sound like a snippy school principal, while He is kind and forgiving and loves each and every human on the planet.

God is kind and forgiving and loving, but we must also remember that that is only PART of His nature. while He is all of those things, at the same time God is holy and just and He has a wrath side too. The Bible calls the Lord a Man of War (Exodus 15:3). He must punish sin, because it is His nature to do so. just like it is His nature to love us. while He loves every human on the planet, every human on the planet is not His child. we are all a creation of God, but not all of us are a child of God. in order to be His child you must be born again into His family. it is by the Spirit of adoption that we cry out "Abba, Father" (Romans 8:15). it is very important that we consider His whole side, especially when it comes to sin.

also, to blaspheme the Holy Spirit means to speak against the Holy Spirit, the movement of the Holy Spirit in the church, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. it's much more than just hating God or yelling at God. it's when you deny the operation of spiritual gifts for today. it's when you deny the existence of the Holy Spirit. it's when you give Satan the credit for the work of the Holy Spirit. and when you do that you cause the Holy Spirit to be extremely grieved. it's sort of like how you feel when someone has stolen your homework and put their name on it in school, or when someone takes the credit for your idea on the job. it causes you to be grieved in spirit. that is how the Holy Spirit feels when He is blasphemed. blaspheming Him basically means speaking and being against anything that is connected to the Holy Spirit. like when you hear someone saying that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not for today's church. that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, because the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a move of the Holy Spirit and to deny His movement is to grieve Him and blaspheme Him. we blaspheme Him when we make such comments and cause Him to be grieved, which the Bible encourages us not to do. what i observed and found funny about this is that most churches that do this don't believe that this sin is unforgiveable... i just thought that was ironic

but, i pray that this helps to clear up some misunderstandings. i know that this thread was about suicide but i felt a need to explain repentance, because it is such an important part of our faith. without it there is no faith. so we need to have a clear understanding of what it means. we cannot truly walk with God unless we walk in true repentance, and in order to do that we must understand what true repentance is and is not. it is not simply feeling bad for your sins with no change of heart. it is much more than that.

God bless each of you.

[PowderedGold]

So if I just went out and said something blasphemous, even if I didn't mean it, would I go to Hell for that? Or is there the presumption that I wouldn't say it if I was truly faithful?

What if someone says something blasphemous as a teenager, then years later becomes a model Christian? How could they not be forgiven?

[jazzypooh]

you know i would like to pretend that i have all of the answers right off the top of my head, but i don't.

but considering the fact that you're asking such a question causes me to believe that you haven't done this anyway.

i believe the people who may have committed this sin could be those who are in a reprobate state, and are on their way to hell.

i'm on my way to bed right now, but tomorrow i will see if i can give you a more thorough explanation. but i doubt that you have committed this sin.

[twistedsketch]

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Don't you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? God will bring ruin upon anyone who ruins this temple. For God's temple is holy, and you Christians are that temple.

this scripture is pretty clear here. if we destroy God's temple (which is our body), then God will destroy us. if you study the Old Testament and look and see how carefully the tabernacle was cared for and set up it helps to understand how God now views us as His living tabernacles.

The context indicates that the "temple" is the greater body of believers, not a physical body. Our physical bodies are temples too, but Paul is talking about false teachers, the church, and how God is zealous for it. If anyone corrupts the church, God will destroy him. A reading of the entire chapter makes this apparent.

[jazzypooh]

its referring to both (destroying the individual body & the Body of Christ as a whole)

[heymikey80]

Suicide is not the unforgivable sin.

God had no intention of forcing people to repent for every sin they committed. If He did, we're all dead. God's point is that if we are repenting of the sins He shows us, then that shows God is at work in our lives to cleanse us from all our sins.

1 John 1 points it out -- we're repenting of sins -- John doesn't use the word "all" in our case. Yet God is cleansing us from all unrighteousness. So even the profound sense of despair in suicide is not beyond God's power to forgive. God is merciful to everyone. He's not tapping His foot, "Well these guys are such sinners, I'm not sure I'm going to open up my heaven 'til they confess all this boatload of sin they're carrying."

And that's how, just a few verses later John can say, "whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything" 1 Jn 3:20

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 is in the plural "y'all are the temple of God." Paul's warning is indeed to those leading astray or even just ripping apart the whole church in Corinth.

It's not individual bodies. In fact worms will destroy all our bodies, if Christ doesn't come.

[heymikey80]

you know i would like to pretend that i have all of the answers right off the top of my head, but i don't.

but considering the fact that you're asking such a question causes me to believe that you haven't done this anyway.

i believe the people who may have committed this sin could be those who are in a reprobate state, and are on their way to hell.

i'm on my way to bed right now, but tomorrow i will see if i can give you a more thorough explanation. but i doubt that you have committed this sin.
Well I have. Decades ago. I don't agree that my entire life in Christ is hopeless for that one comment, decades ago, said in anger.

If you've just thought it, then as Jesus said you've already committed such blasphemies in your heart.

Our immorality slices so deeply into our souls that ... in moments of honesty I admit I'm a sinner to the core. I'm completely at the mercy of God to save me, and I can't take any amount of comfort in what I've done or haven't done. I've neglected it all, I've done much that condemns me. And I suspect that at heart, we have all done so, inside ourselves if not to one another.

And that's really an attempt to commit soul-suicide.

[jazzypooh]

Suicide is not the unforgivable sin.

mikey, i never said that suicide was the unforgiveable sin as in the one that Jesus was referring to

God had no intention of forcing people to repent for every sin they committed. If He did, we're all dead. God's point is that if we are repenting of the sins He shows us, then that shows God is at work in our lives to cleanse us from all our sins.

does that justify suicide? i'm not in disagreement with you about repentance, but that still does not justify suicide. most people that do it know its wrong. because whether or not you're saved you still have that God-given conscience.

1 John 1 points it out -- we're repenting of sins -- John doesn't use the word "all" in our case. Yet God is cleansing us from all unrighteousness. So even the profound sense of despair in suicide is not beyond God's power to forgive. God is merciful to everyone. He's not tapping His foot, "Well these guys are such sinners, I'm not sure I'm going to open up my heaven 'til they confess all this boatload of sin they're carrying."

God in His sovereignty has a way of making everyone aware that their actions are wrong in His eyesight... the same is the case with suicide. i don't believe that God would allow anyone to commit suicide without letting them know the consequences of their actions. that way they stand before Him without excuse. that's the purpose of judgment. how can God hold us to something if we were not aware that it was in place? this is why no one will have an excuse on the Day of Judgment for not accepting Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

It's not individual bodies. In fact worms will destroy all our bodies, if Christ doesn't come.

yeah but we'll already be dead at that time, so you can't seriously use that support your viewpoint. our spirits will have left us by that time

Well I have. Decades ago. I don't agree that my entire life in Christ is hopeless for that one comment, decades ago, said in anger.


i bet u didn't...

there's a difference between blaspheming God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. so what exactly did u say?

[jazzypooh]

oh and the scripture in 1 Cor. 3:16-17 is referring to both individual bodies and the Body of Christ as a whole. i edited my earlier post. i dont know if it showed up to you or not. but its referring to both. how can we be the temple of the Holy Ghost as a whole, but not individually? does that mean that the Holy Ghost is only present in us when we meet with each other once a week? no, we ALL are the temple of God... individually and as a whole.

[heymikey80]

Last I checked this wasn't the place for debate. I tried to focus back on the original post in reply.

I did indeed respond to your thoughts, but largely to offer the other side.
does that justify suicide?
Repentance (or confession) doesn't justify any action. It takes more than saline eyes to make things right.
God in His sovereignty has a way of making everyone aware that their actions are wrong in His eyesight... the same is the case with suicide.
I think there are plenty of people who can't possibly have their heads together to be aware of the implications of their actions.

Many are suicidal. Others are violent enough to be a danger to themselves.
yeah but we'll already be dead at that time, so you can't seriously use that support your viewpoint. our spirits will have left us by that time
It's clear our bodies are not directly in view here (other verses deal with our responsibility there). It's the group of believers that's in view. The destruction is reserved for those intent on destroying the communion of believers.
i bet u didn't...
I know exactly what I said, and it doesn't bear repeating. Ever. Remember who Jesus was talking to? Remember what they said. This is not a "precision wording" case for Jesus. It shouldn't be for us, either.

[heymikey80]

oh and the scripture in 1 Cor. 3:16-17 is referring to both individual bodies and the Body of Christ as a whole. i edited my earlier post. i dont know if it showed up to you or not. but its referring to both. how can we be the temple of the Holy Ghost as a whole, but not individually? does that mean that the Holy Ghost is only present in us when we meet with each other once a week? no, we ALL are the temple of God... individually and as a whole.
Well, I disagree there, too. Again, it's not some critical issue to argue over, it's just that other views are applicable as well.
If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. If all were a single member, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. ...Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 1 Cor 12:17-20, 27

As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1Pt 2:4-5
A brick is not a temple. An ear is not a body. We're parts of a whole. A jar of clay is not a temple. We bring the Spirit to temple in gathering. He does things specially among His gathered people, things that He doesn't do among people alone.

[jazzypooh]

so does that mean that God is only with us at that time? we are the temple of God individually and as a whole. thats the whole point of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, so that He can be there to guide us 24/7. He's our GUIDE... not just on Sundays, but everyday.

I think there are plenty of people who can't possibly have their heads together to be aware of the implications of their actions.

Many are suicidal. Others are violent enough to be a danger to themselves.

i disagree because of my past experience. i've been there. my head wasn't "together" but subconciously i knew the consequences of my actions. it was only the mercy of God that kept me from going through with it. and several other people i knew were there too, and they were fully aware of the consequences, but the mercy of God saved them.

It's clear our bodies are not directly in view here (other verses deal with our responsibility there). It's the group of believers that's in view. The destruction is reserved for those intent on destroying the communion of believers.


it can be applied to both as is the case in a lot of scriptures.

I know exactly what I said, and it doesn't bear repeating. Ever. Remember who Jesus was talking to? Remember what they said. This is not a "precision wording" case for Jesus. It shouldn't be for us, either.

the reason the words are important is because there's a difference between the 3 Persons of the Godhead. and in this scripture, Jesus makes a distinction in His words when referring to the Person of the Holy Ghost. that's why i asked, but if you don't wanna repeat it that's fine. you know you're saved, right? so why does it matter.

and i wasn't trying to debate with you. you responded to my post, and i responded to yours. and since this is one of those things that can go on and on and on, i'll end it here by saying this:

suicide is murder. murder is sin. that we do know. you can take that and do what you want with it. personally, i wouldn't take any chances. the actual word "suicide" is not in the Bible, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere, otherwise people walk around confused and thinking that its ok to kill themselves and its not. and some might even think they'll still go to heaven. i know because thats how i walked around. until somebody told me what it says in the Word of God.

Judas committed suicide and he walked with Jesus on a regular basis. do you think he went to heaven or hell?

[jazzypooh]

if what you're saying is true about the us being the temple of God when we meet, then that means that every single Christian in the world would have to gather together in 1 place in order to form the complete Body of Christ... thats crazy. Christ is complete in us already. that scripture is emphasizing how we need each other, because God has created each of us to do different things. so when we all come together then the Body is edified... that would be the special thing that you are referring to the HOly Ghost doing. but that doesn't mean that's the only time He's in us. the most remarkable times when God has touched me have been when i was all alone... at home... in my room... just me and the Holy Ghost. in fact, i didn't even get saved in a building with other believers. i got saved right in my bedroom! now if the Holy Ghost was not present then how did i receive my salvation? no one "led" me to Christ. His Spirit and His Word led me to Him, and had it not been for His Spirit that breathed through His Word and spoke into my being i would not be saved today. so i do not believe that He is only present when believers gather. and i do not believe that He only does "special" things when we gather. nothing is more special than salvation, and that happened to me while i was alone. sometimes there is a special level of anointing present when we gather, but that is often dependent on the level of consecration of those that are gathering. the church i just left, never had the Holy Ghost there and we gathered every Sunday. but then at other meetings i've gone to, i walked out with my life changed.

[heymikey80]

if what you're saying is true about the us being the temple of God when we meet, then that means that every single Christian in the world would have to gather together in 1 place in order to form the complete Body of Christ... thats crazy.
Uh, no it doesn't. Two or three is plenty. Temples aren't unique.

1 Corinthians 12 was written to -- what? An individual in Corinth? No, it was written to the congregation. It was read to the congregation. It was intended for the congregation.

And 1 Corinthians 12 explicitly says it: we aren't doing this on our own.
Christ is complete in us already. that scripture is emphasizing how we need each other, because God has created each of us to do different things. so when we all come together then the Body is edified... that would be the special thing that you are referring to the HOly Ghost doing.
... Completion in terms of sufficiency to save, yes. But clearly not complete in the sense of every perfection. We're not perfect. We have God, so we shall be made whole -- but "it is not seen what we shall be."
but that doesn't mean that's the only time He's in us.
That's true, and I never said it wasn't. I did say Paul's warning is to teachers, about the Temple of God. That's Paul's focus in the text.

If you want to project beyond his focus, that's fine. But it won't do to say Paul is warning destruction on something that he's not talking about.

Peace & Favor

[jazzypooh]

well, mikey this is becoming tiresome... :yawn:

suicide is murder. murder is sin. thats where i stand.

Love ya! God bless you Brother! :wave:

[Shiversblood]

Saying that if you commite Suicide means you go to hell, is very cruel to all the people who have lost someone who has killed themselves. No living person can say if someone has gone to hell or not, Only God can.

[jazzypooh]

ok i see where this is going. i'm through here.

[heymikey80]

well, mikey this is becoming tiresome... :yawn:

suicide is murder. murder is sin. thats where i stand.

Love ya! God bless you Brother! :wave:
God bless you, too sister. And yes, suicide is murder, and murder is sin, and I would never condone nor wish suicide on someone.

Or even the wish to commit suicide.

It does inestimable harm.

[jazzypooh]

i kinda understand what you mean. some of my family members attempted to commit suicide, but they were not successful. one is saved today. the other is saved in my heart by faith. i was devastated at the thought of losing them. i cant imagine how hurt i would have been had they been successful in their attempts. so i dont know exactly how it feels to lose someone to that, but i know what it feels like to struggle with that. there were times when i almost felt like giving up too. i cant even explain what happened to me. all i know is God saved me. but the devil attacks a lot of people with thoughts of suicide, and the church needs to really intercede for these people.

Be blessed