What the pope said.

[texastig]

How can CF unite all Christians when this statement was stated:

Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation.

Does John 3:16 state this: For God so loved the catholic church that He gave His only Son?
Nope.
It says for God so loved the world (people) that He gave His only begotten Son.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It doesn't say through the catholic church.

Sorry, but I'm irked at the pope and false statements.

Thanks,
TexasTig

[Secundulus]

Thats nothing different than what was stated at Vatican 2 and a whole lot better than what was stated before that.

[Wigglesworth]

How can CF unite all Christians when this statement was stated:

Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church . . . .

We love him, but we don't work for him.

Peace be with you.

:crossrc:

[Fish and Bread]

I've had a change of heart about statements like the one the Vatican issued today. They used to offend me at times. Nowadays, though, I feel like I understand them better. I know they are very intrinsically tied into the Roman Catholic faith and world view, and an important part of their theology. Asking them to believe differently would be asking them to change their basic nature and to give up their God and their faith, and asking them to state things differently would be asking them to bear false witness. We may not agree on the content all the time, but I think I understand why statements like this are necessary from the Roman Catholic perspective.

[Colabomb]

And.... thus it begins....

[Fish and Bread]

And.... thus it begins....
What begins?

[PaladinValer]

Well, my opinion of ++Benedict XVI just turned to the worse.

[Zacharias]

Here's a more complete article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2056515.ece

[DeoJuvante]

Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that the Roman Catholic Church is in some way defective and that the Anglican church is closer to the true path to salvation?

Then, how can we not expect the Roman Catholic Church to believe that they are more right than everyone else? If they believed others were more right than they were, wouldn't they adopt their views? I don't agree with this statement, but I'm not offended. Everyone thinks their views are better than everyone else's.

[EvAng]

Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that the Roman Catholic Church is in some way defective and that the Anglican church is closer to the true path to salvation?

I agree if you are refering to the Thirty Nine Articles :)

[EvAng]

Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that the Roman Catholic Church is in some way defective and that the Anglican church is closer to the true path to salvation?

I agree if you are refering to the Thirty Nine Articles but in my mind Tractarianism is no better that the doctrine of the Vatican. :)

[longhair75]

I admit wholeheartedly that my views on the Church of Rome are far from objective, so I generally try to avoid commenting on it. As for the current Pope, I won a hundred bucks betting that he would be the new Pope. I am about to win another hundred as he brings back the Latin Mass.

[Camden202]

Looking at the what the Pope has pronounced it appears he has set back ecumenical relations back to the pre Henry VIII time.

I remember being in a Reformation Church History lecture and an observation was made that the Church of England would have eventually split from Rome in any event, its just that Henry found a pretext to speed it up.

I often wonder what the current Pope (who has not relinquished his title of "Grand Master of the Inquisition" held since bring head of the Doctrine etc) thinks will be achieved or accomplished by his 'controversial' statement.

I am reminded of a quote which can be found in the movie "Luther"... That salvation may exist outside the Roman Catholic Church, but not outside Christ......

It is this salvation which as an Anglican I cling too, replete with a tradition which extends back through the ages to the Ecclesia Anglicana.

May God bless you and keep you in his care.

[Naomi4Christ]

True to type - but I won't lose any sleep over it.

[Wigglesworth]

Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that the Roman Catholic Church is in some way defective and that the Anglican church is closer to the true path to salvation?


With humility, I say both are defective, and some others are defective as well.

:crossrc:

[Fish and Bread]

Looking at the what the Pope has pronounced it appears he has set back ecumenical relations back to the pre Henry VIII time.

Something very similar was issued by the Vatican in the 2000 document dominus iesus, and it's pretty much been a consistent teaching of Roman Catholicism over the years. If any argument can be made for it being a discontinuity, actually, it might be that it is less harsh than a lot of statements from the middle ages and counter-reformation and such. So, I'm not sure how it is a set back to ecumenical relations as such as it similarly reinforces a teaching that some folks were confused about, and doesn't present a new teaching or reverse a pro-ecumenical teaching.

[Camden202]

Hello Fish and Bread,

I agree with you that the latest comments are not as 'wild' as those Middle Age pronouncements which seem to define the religious tennor of the time.

That being said there has been a large amount of work done in the past by the Anglican Church to reconcile the rift and it seems that the Pope has singlehandedly 'unstitched' a lot of that goodwill.

The current Pope has 'previous form' in this regard... you only have to look at his views on SSPX (themselves Roman Catholic) to see that he is not adverse to burning bridges and destroying goodwill..... without considering the consequences or impact it has on faithful.

That being said, I appreciate your persepective.

God Bless.

[Secundulus]

That being said there has been a large amount of work done in the past by the Anglican Church to reconcile the rift and it seems that the Pope has singlehandedly 'unstitched' a lot of that goodwill.
God Bless.

Given some of the innovations of the Anglican Communion over the past 30 years, the rift is irreconcilable.

I would imagine that any recent talks have been for formalities sake only.

[Camden202]

Given some of the innovations of the Anglican Communion over the past 30 years, the rift is irreconcilable.


In terms of 'reconciliation' efforts I don't believe that there was ever any real intention to promote a 'merger' of equals.....though this as I understood it did not preclude an effective 'communion'.

Are there any specific 'rifts' you might care to mention??

[karen freeinchristman]

Here's a more complete article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2056515.ece

I liked this part:

“We are grateful that the Vatican has once again been honest in declaring their view that the Church of England is not a proper Church. Too much dialogue proceeds without such honesty. Therefore, we would wish to be equally open; unity will only be possible when the papacy renounces its errors and pretensions.”

:thumbsup:

[gtsecc]

Who burned Bridges - the Pope for not accepting a particular practice, never accepted before by Christians, or those who started it?

[Camden202]

Who burned Bridges - the Pope for not accepting a particular practice, never accepted before by Christians, or those who started it?

Hey there gtsecc,

Based on your comments I am going to presume that you are unaware of the History between the Vatican and SSPX.

SSPX are a Roman Catholic organistation, the leadership of which were given 'Ecclesia Dei'. It became completely schismatic at that time.

The key element of SSPX is that they are essentially pre-Vatican 2. People who do not support the 'Novos Ordo' and who adehere to the rites, customs and practices pre-V2. The congreations of the faithful are STRONG and Rome would rather they come back to the fold, but won't recant on its decree(s). Quite frankly it is an embaracement to Rome and they have NO moral compass to be making remarks about issues within the Anglican Communion when they are clearly encountering the same within Catholicism. SSPX are an embaracement to Rome and Pope Benedict would rather they 'disappear' (his own words when he was chair of the Doctrinal commission).

The bridges were BURNED when the Vatican chose to ignore both the priests and the faithful and instead issued the "Ecclesia Dei".

So yes... the Roman Catholic Church has a history of knee jerk reactions, without any understanding of the consequences, then wonders why when the dust settles that they can't just go back to the way things were....where the Pope is infalible and the Vatican Supreme.

"Salvation can exist outside the Roman Catholic Church, but NOT outside Christ." - Luther.

Unless you wish to go back to the times where the Roman Catholic Church required you to 'pay' for indulgences and that the observation of 'relics' remitted your time in purgatory.

Personally I will stick to the 39 Articles and what is understood from the Oxford Movement in the Tracts.

God Bless.