God doesn't tempt people so...

[ProdigalSeeker]

It is said that God doesn't lead us into temptation in James 1:13... what are your views on how this relates to the Lords Prayer where we say "Lead us not into temptation". Was Jesus saying "For you lead us not into temptation, but you deliver us from evil"?

It would seem kind of empty for him to ask God not to tempt us, when God doesn't do the tempting.

[Simon_Templar]

There is a difference between saying God himself does not tempt us and saying that God can not allow us, or even lead us into temptation.

This is like the fact that God can not lie, yet God sent a lying spirit to Saul in the OT.

God does not tempt us, yet there are plenty of spirits around to do the job if he should allow it.

[ProdigalSeeker]

Very true, as the book of Job shows. However, God still does not lead into temptation. Still kind of unclear.

[Iosias]

You could do worse than read Thomas Watson in his chapter on the sixth petition in his book on The Lord's Prayer (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/watson/prayer.ix.html):)


This petition consists of two parts. First, Deprecatory, ‘Lead us not into temptation.’ Secondly, Petitionary, ‘But deliver us from evil.’

I. ‘Lead us not into temptation.’ Does God lead into temptation? God tempts no man to sin. ‘Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.’ James 1: 13 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.Jas.1.html#Jas.1.13). He permits sin, but does not promote it. He who is an encourager of holiness cannot be a pattern of sin. God does not tempt to that to which he has an antipathy. What king will tempt his subjects to break laws which he himself has established?

But is it not said, God tempted Abraham? Gen 22: 1 (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/asv.Gen.22.html#Gen.22.1).

Tempting there was no more than trying. He tried Abraham’s faith, as a goldsmith tries gold in the fire; but there is a great deal of difference between trying his people’s grace and exciting their corruption; he tries their grace, but does not excite their corruption. Man’s sin cannot be justly fathered on God. God tempts no man.

What then is the meaning of ‘Lead us not into temptation’?

The meaning is, that God would not suffer us to be overcome by temptation; that we may not be given up to the power of temptation, and be drawn into sin.

[Romanseight2005]

Another way you could look at it is that you are praying that God will lead you. I pray for God to direct my steps most days. Praying for that leading to not be in temptations way might be a way for us to consciously be aware of the battle that we are in. We are in essence asking God to deliver us before we are even ensnared. I guess its like we are affirming in our hearts to God, that we want to walk in purity.

[Romanseight2005]

Something else to consider, is that when you look up the word tempt in the Greek, it can mean to test, or to draw, entice. A test is not the same as being enticed. A test is merely a gage of where you are at. That is what Jesus underwent in the wilderness. So I believe that James is saying that God doesn't entice, but He surely tests. Does that make sense?

[ProdigalSeeker]

That's a real good point... kind of like when abraham was tested with his son isaac. But why would Jesus ask for us not to be tested, when it by going through the struggles that increases our faith?

[Romanseight2005]

I don't think He was telling us not to be tested. I think He was telling us to ask God to keep us away from the things that would entice, or ensnare us. I think in the instance of the prayer, the term temptation was being used like it is in James, when it means to entice. This is just my thoughts of course. I am certainly not dogmatic about it, but I have given this subject a lot of thought, and have prayed for wisdom in this area.

[ProdigalSeeker]

That certainly does make sense... but I would think a faith without enticement would be monotonous.

[ebia]

Down here we have "save us from the time of trial" instead, which I still haven't entirely gotten used to.

[PaladinValer]

I prefer save us from the time of trial personally.

[ProdigalSeeker]

I prefer "...time of trial" also, and use it myself. But, is it biblical? It seems every time the lord's prayer is mentioned it's "Lead us not into temptation". I also prefer "..deliver us from the evil one", again just personal preference.

[PaladinValer]

The Greek words used for "lead" and "temptation" can respectively mean either lead or bring; temptation or trial.

[ProdigalSeeker]

oh... that makes more sense now. Thanks! See... this is why people need to stay at CF!