Does the Holy spirit leave you?

[normabcadena]

Does it really leave you or what causes it and why? when we are in sin?

[amadeus2]

Does it really leave you or what causes it and why? when we are in sin?
"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." Psalm 51:11

It seems that according to the above verse King David thought that it could leave.

[stone]

1Jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

[stone]

15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.


apparently, the only way i can lose it is by rejecting the word of the l-rd, and that's impossible now.


***

1 Samuel 16:14-23 14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. 17 And Saul said unto his servants, Provide me now a man that can play well, and bring him to me. 18 Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite, that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant man, and a man of war, and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the LORD is with him. 19 Wherefore Saul sent messengers unto Jesse, and said, Send me David thy son, which is with the sheep. 20 And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul. 21 And David came to Saul, and stood before him: and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer. 22 And Saul sent to Jesse, saying, Let David, I pray thee, stand before me; for he hath found favour in my sight. 23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

[garfieldthecatman]

I believe that the Spirit is always with us. But when we commit sin, the Spirit isn't active in our lives. It's like we are pushing it to the back of our lives and try to take control for ourselves. Just because we sin one, two times before we ask forgiveness, doesn't mean that we lose our salvation, or the Spirit.

[david1988]

I don't believe that sin and the holy spirit can live within the same tent.
(our bodies) Before we sin, the Holy Spirit speaks to us. If we continue in that sin, the Holy Spirit leaves us. And if we sincerely repent, and feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit then is when the Holy Spirit re-joins us. This is my opinion. I could be wrong. But this is how I feel about the Holy Spirit and sin.

[JAS4Yeshua]

I think there is a differentiation that needs to be clarified between the Old and the New Testaments. In the time prior to Christ's death and resurrection, the Holy Spirit wasn't poured out on everyone. It was granted and taken from those in leadership. The example given of Saul is one, and David's Psalm was another.

After Christ's ascention, He promised a helper to us who believed in Him. A guarantee of what was to come. This is the Holy Spirit. It is given to all believers in Christ.

There are three purposes of the Holy Spirit.

1) To convict of sin. The Holy Spirit will convict the non-believers and show them their need for a Savior. The Holy Spirit, in this context, exists outside the person, and in the world.

2) To remind (bring to memory) things from the Bible, and to be a guarantee to believers of what is to come. When a believer accepts Christ, the Holy Spirit enters into them to help them live the life of Christ. It will bring to memory scripture as well as convict of sins and lead to repentence.

3) To empower believers to do great things for the Kingdom of God. This first appeared at pentecost, when the apostles were filled with the Spirit. This is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit from the lives of believers, that allow them to preach the Word boldly and without fear. It also gives gifts, such as the speaking of tongues, prophecies and healings.

If a person is habitually living in sin, then that raises the question of whether or not they have truly accepted the Lord. While it isn't our place to judge a person's salvation (that is for the Lord alone), we should bring to light actions that are called sin in the Bible. That being the case, would the Holy Spirit ever have dwelled in that person? Or the person who willfully turns from the Lord, could they "expel" the Holy Spirit by their own actions?

I don't believe that anyone can lose the Holy Spirit now, as they could in the Old Testament. I do think, though, that an unrepentant and willfully sinful person might push the Holy Spirit out of their own lives by their actions.

[sandman]

Seed is seed once your born again you can’t loose it
Old Testament believers had holy spirit upon them conditionally Since the day of Pentecost, all those who accept Christ as their Lord and savior receive the gift of holy spirit unconditionally

I Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

[Solidlyhere]

"Does [the Holy Spirit] really leave you or what causes it and why?"

I firmly believe that the Holy Spirit can (and does) back-off from a person to the point that His presence cannot be felt.

What causes this is that God wants it to happen.
God controls the Holy Spirit
God can do it for whatever reason God chooses.
Human Beings do not understand the mind of God.

[Churon]

Now that we've seem from the scripute, that the holy spirit cannot leave a believer we can look at several other issues. 1 thessalonians 5, 19 says that we can quench the holy spirit meaning we can cause him not to move in our lives. Also the manifest presence of the holy spirit (his glory/annointing) can leave as well.

The whole idea of "when a person lives in sin he's never been saved and therefore does not have the holy spirit" is defenitely not my opinion but that's probably not the topic of this thread. What is part of this topic is that I'm of the opinion that the holy spirit stays in people who live in sin.

[stone]

I think there is a differentiation that needs to be clarified between the Old and the New Testaments. In the time prior to Christ's death and resurrection, the Holy Spirit wasn't poured out on everyone. It was granted and taken from those in leadership. The example given of Saul is one, and David's Psalm was another.

After Christ's ascention, He promised a helper to us who believed in Him. A guarantee of what was to come. This is the Holy Spirit. It is given to all believers in Christ.

There are three purposes of the Holy Spirit.

1) To convict of sin. The Holy Spirit will convict the non-believers and show them their need for a Savior. The Holy Spirit, in this context, exists outside the person, and in the world.

2) To remind (bring to memory) things from the Bible, and to be a guarantee to believers of what is to come. When a believer accepts Christ, the Holy Spirit enters into them to help them live the life of Christ. It will bring to memory scripture as well as convict of sins and lead to repentence.

3) To empower believers to do great things for the Kingdom of God. This first appeared at pentecost, when the apostles were filled with the Spirit. This is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit from the lives of believers, that allow them to preach the Word boldly and without fear. It also gives gifts, such as the speaking of tongues, prophecies and healings.

If a person is habitually living in sin, then that raises the question of whether or not they have truly accepted the Lord. While it isn't our place to judge a person's salvation (that is for the Lord alone), we should bring to light actions that are called sin in the Bible. That being the case, would the Holy Spirit ever have dwelled in that person? Or the person who willfully turns from the Lord, could they "expel" the Holy Spirit by their own actions?

I don't believe that anyone can lose the Holy Spirit now, as they could in the Old Testament. I do think, though, that an unrepentant and willfully sinful person might push the Holy Spirit out of their own lives by their actions.


The 3 work for those raised with christian relatives, but not for those that did not.

The holy spirit is the same from the beginning to the end. How it is received changed two thousand years ago.

[stone]

Seed is seed once your born again you can’t loose it
Old Testament believers had holy spirit upon them conditionally Since the day of Pentecost, all those who accept Christ as their Lord and savior receive the gift of holy spirit unconditionally

I Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

a contradiction in terms?

all those that accept, receive.. unconditionally...

accepting is a condition.


the scripture states, you have received a good seed.

[sandman]

a contradiction in terms?

all those that accept, receive.. unconditionally...

accepting is a condition.


the scripture states, you have received a good seed.
I guess grammatically speaking it would be a contradiction, if you didn’t know what I meant ….but you do….

[stone]

I guess grammatically speaking it would be a contradiction, if you didn’t know what I meant ….but you do….

to accept J-sus to receive the holy spirit is not unconditional, you have to accept J-sus

[stone]

Mt 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

[amadeus2]

Seed is seed once your born again you can’t loose it
Old Testament believers had holy spirit upon them conditionally Since the day of Pentecost, all those who accept Christ as their Lord and savior receive the gift of holy spirit unconditionally

I Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

Yes the Word of God 'liveth and abideth forever', but the seed does not necessariy. At least, not in us!

"He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down." Luke 13:6-9

The fig tree like the seed planted in us when we are first drawn to God needs proper and regular nourishment. Our natural bodies are the same. If we do not eat and drink regularly and properly we will at first become sick and weak and then we will die.

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55

This is the proper nourishment for the newborn 'inner man': the flesh and blood of Jesus. Jesus is the Word made flesh. We need to partake of the Word of God by reading and studying the Bible and by listening to it being read or preached or taught. But...like our natural bodies need blood to live [see Lev 17:11] so also does this ingested 'flesh' of Jesus need His blood to live. His Blood is the Spirit which gives it Life:

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

[sandman]

Mt 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Stone
this is dealing with the unforgivable sin ....that is a whole different ball game......

to accept J-sus to receive the holy spirit is not unconditional, you have to accept J-sus

You lost me on that one ………………

[JAS4Yeshua]

I think there is a differentiation that needs to be clarified between the Old and the New Testaments. In the time prior to Christ's death and resurrection, the Holy Spirit wasn't poured out on everyone. It was granted and taken from those in leadership. The example given of Saul is one, and David's Psalm was another.

After Christ's ascention, He promised a helper to us who believed in Him. A guarantee of what was to come. This is the Holy Spirit. It is given to all believers in Christ.

There are three purposes of the Holy Spirit.

1) To convict of sin. The Holy Spirit will convict the non-believers and show them their need for a Savior. The Holy Spirit, in this context, exists outside the person, and in the world.

2) To remind (bring to memory) things from the Bible, and to be a guarantee to believers of what is to come. When a believer accepts Christ, the Holy Spirit enters into them to help them live the life of Christ. It will bring to memory scripture as well as convict of sins and lead to repentence.

3) To empower believers to do great things for the Kingdom of God. This first appeared at pentecost, when the apostles were filled with the Spirit. This is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit from the lives of believers, that allow them to preach the Word boldly and without fear. It also gives gifts, such as the speaking of tongues, prophecies and healings.

If a person is habitually living in sin, then that raises the question of whether or not they have truly accepted the Lord. While it isn't our place to judge a person's salvation (that is for the Lord alone), we should bring to light actions that are called sin in the Bible. That being the case, would the Holy Spirit ever have dwelled in that person? Or the person who willfully turns from the Lord, could they "expel" the Holy Spirit by their own actions?

I don't believe that anyone can lose the Holy Spirit now, as they could in the Old Testament. I do think, though, that an unrepentant and willfully sinful person might push the Holy Spirit out of their own lives by their actions.
The 3 work for those raised with christian relatives, but not for those that did not.

The holy spirit is the same from the beginning to the end. How it is received changed two thousand years ago.
Not entirely accurate.

1) Is the Holy Spirit working in the world among non-Christians. Not only through family, but through friends, evangelists, street witnessing teams, etc. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts people of sin and shows them their need for a Savior.

2) Is the Holy Spirit coming into the life of a Christian, one who has accepted God.

3) Is the empowering of the Christian to be witnesses of Christ. It is the outpouring that helps spur on the first point.

No, God hasn't changed, He never will. Only how the Holy Spirit works has changed as a result of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.

[stone]

Matthew 13:1-23

1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

[JAS4Yeshua]

That scripture is a person's walk with the Lord, not the presense of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

The one who hears the Word but doesn't understand and doesn't believe is the one who is snatched away.

The one who hears the word, but doesn't receive it with joy. Having no true understanding or relationship, that person falls away under pressure.

The one who hears the word, but still lives in the world gets choked by the world's cares, and doesn't follow the Lord.

Finally, the one who hears the word, understands and heeds it, that person is the one that bears fruit. That is the one who is given the guarantee of the Holy Spirit in their lives. The others never received it.

[stone]

That scripture is a person's walk with the Lord, not the presense of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

The one who hears the Word but doesn't understand and doesn't believe is the one who is snatched away.

The one who hears the word, but doesn't receive it with joy. Having no true understanding or relationship, that person falls away under pressure.

The one who hears the word, but still lives in the world gets choked by the world's cares, and doesn't follow the Lord.

Finally, the one who hears the word, understands and heeds it, that person is the one that bears fruit. That is the one who is given the guarantee of the Holy Spirit in their lives. The others never received it.


This is the same with the holy spirit.

[jsimms615]

Does it really leave you or what causes it and why? when we are in sin?
We can quench or grieve the Holy Spirit, but God has promised to the believer never to leave us or forsake us.

[JAS4Yeshua]

This is the same with the holy spirit.
The Holy Spirit only applies to the seed that was planted in the fertile soil of the heart, as I explained previously. The Holy Spirit is not the context of this parable. Understanding and believing (faith) is the context.

We can quench or grieve the Holy Spirit, but God has promised to the believer never to leave us or forsake us.
Exactly. :thumbsup:

[genestealerbroodlord]

I

[JAS4Yeshua]

I don't think God leaves us. On the contrary, it is we who leave God. When we feel distant from God it isn't because God moved from us, but that we moved away from Him. That is why we should always be praying and examining our walk with Him, so that we can always stay near to him, so there is never a need to worry about "losing the Holy Spirit."

[garfieldthecatman]

:amen: