What happens to people who live in remote Jungles who die without Christ?

[david1988]

I'm grateful to the family who introduced me to Jesus. I will never forget them. For without them who knows where I'd be at today.

But, what about the people who live in remote jungles of the world?
I know there are missionaries today who travel to these remote areas with the Word of God and Salvation thru Christ.

But what happens to those people who die without hearing the word of Christ?

The Mormons teach that people who have died without having the opportunity to accept Jesus into their lives will have this opportunity in Spirit Prison. The Mormons believe these people who have died will be taught salvation thru Jesus while in Spirit Prison.

It makes sense to me. Because how else will they ever learn about Jesus if no one ever told them while they were living here on earth?

Why would Jesus not give everyone who's ever lived the opportunity to receive him into their heart?

The Bible says that during his 3 days in the grave he preached to those in Spirit Prison. Perhaps he still does to those who have died without hearing the gospel?


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[staveoffzombies]

I would give you MY answer, but the anti-Universalist crowd would rain down on my head.

[david1988]

I would give you MY answer, but the anti-Universalist crowd would rain down on my head.
What is an anti-universalist crowd?

[staveoffzombies]

What is an anti-universalist crowd?
Universalism is generally unliked around here.

[Kelly]

I imagine they would be judged and found guilty of sinning, and thus go to hell. I also feel that -no one- today can go a lifetime without exposure to the Good News.

[DeanM]

I imagine they would be judged and found guilty of sinning, and thus go to hell. I also feel that -no one- today can go a lifetime without exposure to the Good News.
Babies who die prematurely, for example?
How about the deaf/blind, and severly mentally disabled?
And people who live in remote jungles, too?

Hell's filling up fast...

Sarcasm aside, I'm confident that God is not petty enough to condemn those who have not heard His word.

[DeaconDean]

Even those who have not heard the gospel preached, still have enough evidence from nature alone to prove that there is a God above:

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" -Rom. 1:20 (KJV)

And even if they have never heard the law, if they do the things that contained in the law by nature, that will be a law unto themselves to which they will be judged:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" -Rom. 2:14 (KJV)

God will not leave Himself with out any kind of witness. Even nature is a witness of/to Him.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Zecryphon]

I'm grateful to the family who introduced me to Jesus. I will never forget them. For without them who knows where I'd be at today.

But, what about the people who live in remote jungles of the world?
I know there are missionaries today who travel to these remote areas with the Word of God and Salvation thru Christ.

But what happens to those people who die without hearing the word of Christ?

The Mormons teach that people who have died without having the opportunity to accept Jesus into their lives will have this opportunity in Spirit Prison. The Mormons believe these people who have died will be taught salvation thru Jesus while in Spirit Prison.

It makes sense to me. Because how else will they ever learn about Jesus if no one ever told them while they were living here on earth?

Why would Jesus not give everyone who's ever lived the opportunity to receive him into their heart?

The Bible says that during his 3 days in the grave he preached to those in Spirit Prison. Perhaps he still does to those who have died without hearing the gospel?


http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/18954/2003173289865492746_rs.jpg


http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/18954/2003115067890592575_rs.jpg

http://i19.tinypic.com/54kkw9j.gif

I believe those who die without hearing the gospel of Christ are judged by God by how they interacted with His creation. Did they do good or bad acts? Were they focused upon others or themselves? I think God will look at their hearts and judge them by that.

[Lightcreated]

The same thing that happens to every unsaved person, there's no level being unsaved.
You're either saved or you're not.
If God want to save some one than that person will be saved if He has not planed to save that person they will not be saved, it as simple as that.
God knows that person is in that jungle or living on that mountain so if He has planed to save that person, that person, will be saved if He has not planed to save that person they will not be saved.

[Zecryphon]

The same thing that happens to every unsaved person, there's no level being unsaved.
You're either saved or you're not.
If God want to save some one than that person will be saved if He has not planed to save that person they will not be saved, it as simple as that.
God knows that person is in that jungle or living on that mountain so if He has planed to save that person, that person, will be saved if He has not planed to save that person they will not be saved.
I too believe in an elect, but why would God choose not to save a person He created? That has always troubled me about election.

[Lightcreated]

Because He is God, it's a free gift, that's His business.

[stone]

J-sus loves everybody.

[elsbeth]

The only sane comment I ever heard about this subject that I can live with is this: God loves everyone, and God is just. Therefore, whatever God does with people who haven't heard the gospel, it will be the right thing.
I can trust God, that he will treat people as they should be treated.

[Lightcreated]

J-sus loves everybody.

No God does not love everyone, that's the biggest misconception that man has ever come up with.
He saids in the bible JACOB I LOVE BUT ESAU I HATE, esau is a representation of every unsaved person that would ever live, even to the last day.
You have to be careful when you say God has said something when He hasn't said, because you will pay for it on the last day, which is upon us and will be here very soon.
If He loved everyone then there would'nt be hell.
And how we should be treated, how should we be treated?
We all should be thrown into HELL!! forever more.

[staveoffzombies]

No God does not love everyone, that's the biggest misconception that man has ever come up with.
He saids in the bible JACOB I LOVE BUT ESAU I HATE, esau is a representation of every unsaved person that would ever live, even to the last day.
You have to be careful when you say God has said something when He hasn't said, because you will pay for it on the last day, which is upon us and will be here very soon.
If He loved everyone then there would'nt be hell.
And how we should be treated, how should we be treated?
We all should be thrown into HELL!! forever more.
I gotta say, if I held to that I would go through life a very depressed person.

[EmperorConstantine]

If I may interject...



http://www3.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon6.gif What happens to people who live in remote Jungles who die without Christ?

Simple: He allows them more "leeway" when judging than He would any Christian. They don't know about Christ, why send them to hell for it?

Whereas the rest of us who do know Christ and how He wants us to act, will not be given as much "leeway". We will be judged much more harshly.

[twistedsketch]

There is a Biblical possibility of "spirits in prison" being preached to by Jesus back when He was dead (1 Peter 3:18-20). However, this is different than the Mormon Spirit Prison. Furthermore, it's only a hypothesis, really.

[seekthelight]

I would give you MY answer, but the anti-Universalist crowd would rain down on my head.
I would like to hear your answer, can you give me a PM?

Some of the answers in this thread are shocking....

[Lightcreated]

I gotta say, if I held to that I would go through life a very depressed person.

You better read your bible my friend, because God doesn't care what you believe, it's what's in the bible that counts, not your personal belief or feeling.
I gave you scripture to suport what i've said, but you want to believe in you own interpretation.
I rather be depressed now rather than pay for it in eternal damnation.
You can believe what you want to, but the bible is the authority not our personal beliefs, we must let the bible interpret what is being said by God in the bible.
The bible is it's own dictionary.
The truth is what it is, some of you people are just so nigheve you can't just ignore something in the bible when you do'nt like it.
Because you'll be the one to pay for it on the last day.

[Lightcreated]

I gotta say, if I held to that I would go through life a very depressed person.

You better read your bible my friend, because God doesn't care what you believe, it's what in the bible that counts, no your personal belief or feeling.
I gave you scripture to suport what i've said, but you want to believe in you own interpretation.
I rather be depressed now rather than pay for it in eternal damnation.
You can believe what you want to, but the bible is the authority not our personal beliefs, we must let the bible interpret what is being said by God in the bible.
The bible is it's own dictionary.
Some of you people are just so nigheve, you can't just ignore something in the bible when you do'nt like it, because God doesn't care if you like it or not you'll be the one to pay for it on the last day.

[Countrygirl1976]

Judge not. Because the one true judge is the Lord and his decisions are final. There are no appeals.

[Lightcreated]

Exactly.

[stone]

No God does not love everyone, that's the biggest misconception that man has ever come up with.
He saids in the bible JACOB I LOVE BUT ESAU I HATE, esau is a representation of every unsaved person that would ever live, even to the last day.
You have to be careful when you say God has said something when He hasn't said, because you will pay for it on the last day, which is upon us and will be here very soon.
If He loved everyone then there would'nt be hell.
And how we should be treated, how should we be treated?
We all should be thrown into HELL!! forever more.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[dvd_holc]

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 2
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

[LeliAne]

I too have had the same speculations, however you do not want to stray off the path of truth by accepting non-Biblical theory to answer these questions because this sets you up for a diluted belief system.

Now it is true that "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord." so investigating the scriptures this is an absolute. Pretribulation states that all will know who Christ is....for these people who deny or are without the knowledge of Christ....they will face the same fate.

Remote as it may be by the time Christ does come back these cultures will have had full knowledge of our Lord. So crossing over and accepting theories that stray from biblical truths can infiltrate and deceive your beliefs.

Believers to the heavens, non-believers to hell--so simple, yet everyone complicates things.
Bless you for being brave enough to ask these hard questions and expressing your concern.

[stone]

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 2
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


this answers the question very well! :thumbsup:

[dvd_holc]

this answers the question very well! :thumbsup::wave:

[staveoffzombies]

You better read your bible my friend, because God doesn't care what you believe, it's what in the bible that counts, no your personal belief or feeling.
I gave you scripture to suport what i've said, but you want to believe in you own interpretation.
I rather be depressed now rather than pay for it in eternal damnation.
You can believe what you want to, but the bible is the authority not our personal beliefs, we must let the bible interpret what is being said by God in the bible.
The bible is it's own dictionary.
Some of you people are just so nigheve, you can't just ignore something in the bible when you do'nt like it, because God doesn't care if you like it or not you'll be the one to pay for it on the last day.
If you claim God "hates" all of the unsaved, then you are claiming that God hates the overwhelming majority of His creation and that He created mankind with the intent of horribly torturing the majority of it for all eternity.

If you truly believe that, how could life be anything but a hopeless nightmare? Even if yo are one of the people saved, you would be going throgh life with the knowledge that most people you see on the street, in the stores, etc. are doomed to an eternity of unimaginable agony. Talk about survivors guilt.

[Zecryphon]

If you claim God "hates" all of the unsaved, then you are claiming that God hates the overwhelming majority of His creation and that He created mankind with the intent of horribly torturing the majority of it for all eternity.

If you truly believe that, how could life be anything but a hopeless nightmare? Even if yo are one of the people saved, you would be going throgh life with the knowledge that most people you see on the street, in the stores, etc. are doomed to an eternity of unimaginable agony. Talk about survivors guilt.
"If you claim God "hates" all of the unsaved, then you are claiming that God hates the overwhelming majority of His creation and that He created mankind with the intent of horribly torturing the majority of it for all eternity."

Where in his post did he make the claim that God hates all of the unsaved? I don't see it.

[staveoffzombies]

"If you claim God "hates" all of the unsaved, then you are claiming that God hates the overwhelming majority of His creation and that He created mankind with the intent of horribly torturing the majority of it for all eternity."

Where in his post did he make the claim that God hates all of the unsaved? I don't see it.

He made it in an earlier post.

No God does not love everyone, that's the biggest misconception that man has ever come up with.
He saids in the bible JACOB I LOVE BUT ESAU I HATE, esau is a representation of every unsaved person that would ever live, even to the last day.
You have to be careful when you say God has said something when He hasn't said, because you will pay for it on the last day, which is upon us and will be here very soon.
If He loved everyone then there would'nt be hell.
And how we should be treated, how should we be treated?
We all should be thrown into HELL!! forever more.

[dvd_holc]

On the subject of love and hate, Jesus in whom the fullness of God rest said, "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

So then, in our relationship with others we are to love one another as God has loved us; however, Jesus says this also, ""If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple. And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple...."

So then, does Jesus mean we are to hate our family members because of Jesus? Certainly not, He means that we are to love less and make Jesus our King and Rabbi over and against all others.

So then, when God loved Jacob and hated Esau...God loved Jacob more than Esau while He also blessed both.

"He (God) causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

[elsbeth]

No God does not love everyone, that's the biggest misconception that man has ever come up with.
He saids in the bible JACOB I LOVE BUT ESAU I HATE, esau is a representation of every unsaved person that would ever live, even to the last day.
You have to be careful when you say God has said something when He hasn't said, because you will pay for it on the last day, which is upon us and will be here very soon.
If He loved everyone then there would'nt be hell.
And how we should be treated, how should we be treated?
We all should be thrown into HELL!! forever more.

This is exactly why I DON'T believe the Bible is inerrant. You are basing your opinions on this OT passage. I don't believe God said that at all. If I am wrong about it God will set me straight (and I am forgiven for it), but I don't think that God will condemn me for believing He loves everyone. You know: For God so loved the WORLD. God loved me, and pursued me, for some years before I actually turned to Him.

[yeshuaslavejeff]

if you're a supreme court judge, and love your son,

yet then your son commits high treason in time of war,

you may still love your son, and he will still be executed by law.

God may love all His creatures, yet He called some "brood of serpents" and "sons of the devil" and "seven times the sons of satan", and so, love or not, judgement still.

p.s. hell/judgement/suffering may be 'eternal' = for the duration of time, not necessarily unending, as many have pointed out on the web and in other threads.

[Eleknar]

The Mormons teach that people who have died without having the opportunity to accept Jesus into their lives will have this opportunity in Spirit Prison. The Mormons believe these people who have died will be taught salvation thru Jesus while in Spirit Prison.
Mormonism is a man made Cult, not a Christian denomination.

[Bick]

http://www3.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon6.gif What happens to people who live in remote Jungles who die without Christ?


I'm grateful to the family who introduced me to Jesus. I will never forget them. For without them who knows where I'd be at today.

But, what about the people who live in remote jungles of the world?
I know there are missionaries today who travel to these remote areas with the Word of God and Salvation thru Christ.

But what happens to those people who die without hearing the word of Christ?

The Mormons teach that people who have died without having the opportunity to accept Jesus into their lives will have this opportunity in Spirit Prison. The Mormons believe these people who have died will be taught salvation thru Jesus while in Spirit Prison.

It makes sense to me. Because how else will they ever learn about Jesus if no one ever told them while they were living here on earth?

Why would Jesus not give everyone who's ever lived the opportunity to receive him into their heart?

The Bible says that during his 3 days in the grave he preached to those in Spirit Prison. Perhaps he still does to those who have died without hearing the gospel?

MY ANSWERS:
It is true, I'm sure, that since Christ's death, burial and resurrection, there must be millions who have never heard of Him and His passion.
But, we must not speculate from our own reasoning, but seek the answers in the Scriptures

In Rom. 1:18 we read, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities---his eternal power and divine nature---have been clearly seen, being understood from what he has made, so that men are without excuse." NIV.

So, even in remote jungles, all humans must realize there is divine creator. But even this light gets surpressed, for, IMO, they worship spirits, and creatures made by God.

Paul goes on in Rom. 2:9-18, concluding that no one is righteous, no one understands, no one seeks God.

These natives in remote jungles will have died and be apart of those resurrected to be judged for their deeds at the great white throne. There, Christ, the rightous judge, will take into account all the conditions of each persons life: For instance, those, who have not the law (of Moses), but by nature the things contained in the law, will be judged accordingly (Rom.2:14ff, Rev. 20:11-15).

From those being judged before the great white throne, there will be those judged worthy of life, and their names will be in the book of life. The others, after God's vengeance has been repaid on them, will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

The Mormons are wrong! When God breathed the breath of life into the nostrils of the prepared body of Adam, he became a living soul. A soul was not infused into a body which then came alive (Gen.2:7)

Man's spirit, his life force, is related to breath.

When man dies, his spirit (a gift from God) returns to God who gave it (Eccl. 12:7).

If you will read that passage carefully in 1 Pet. 3:18-19, you will see in vs. 18, that Christ was put to death in [the] flesh, but quickened (made alive) in [the] spirit. NOTICE, HE IS NOW ALIVE.

Then, by which, or in spirit He went and preached (hearalded--Greek) to the spirits in prison.

IMO, these were spirit beings, even the "fallen angels" back in the days of Noah, who left their own habitation (where angels should be), and married the daughters of man.

A final thought: God's plans for the church/body of Christ is something not known in previous ages, but was revealed to the apostle Paul, that we have been predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. This number of both Jews and Gentiles only God knows. But, believe me, all that God has chosen and called will hear and believe the gospel.

Bick

[DeaconDean]

Even those who have not heard the gospel preached, still have enough evidence from nature alone to prove that there is a God above:

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" -Rom. 1:20 (KJV)

And even if they have never heard the law, if they do the things that contained in the law by nature, that will be a law unto themselves to which they will be judged:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" -Rom. 2:14 (KJV)

God will not leave Himself with out any kind of witness. Even nature is a witness of/to Him.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 2
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

That is exactly what I said on the very first page. I'm glad I'm not the only one who knew this answer.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[dvd_holc]

That is exactly what I said on the very first page. I'm glad I'm not the only one who knew this answer.

God Bless

Till all are one.Me too...:thumbsup:

[Lightcreated]

I'm glad to see everyone getting so mad over my post :D
And i did put a verse to suport it, i'm glad to see you all skipping the verses where God talks about judgement, but you people just skip right over those verses and go straight for the verses where God speaks of His love.
And to the person that said she doesn't believe God said that, you have called God a liar.
And of cause i got that verse from the OT we are to read the whole bible, not just from half.
I can care less if you disregaurd the verse i suported my post on, you're not hurting me in the least bit.
You're hurting your selves because you're really not trying to prove me wrong, you're trying to prove Him wrong because i got it strieght from scripture. :D:yawn:

[Kelly]

I'm glad to see everyone getting so mad over my post :D
...
You're hurting your selves because you're really not trying to prove me wrong, you're trying to prove Him wrong because i got it strieght from scripture. :D:yawn:

Work on your issues of pride. This is just a friendly discussion. It's a GOOD topic to be able to talk about with nonbelievers and new christians. We should not be avoiding scriptures, but let's talk with a spirit of compassion towards each other.

[Lightcreated]

Pride lol this is a good topic to descuss with unbelievers?
Well i'm not saved, and you are right about my pride.
Alot of it does go into the writing of my comment's sometimes, forgive me i apocalypse.

[Renatus]

You quote much from Paul in that topic, but have you tried Jesus?
I don't know if you realize these lines from Jesus, but I think they have somethin to do with this topic, especially with people who lived before Jesus was born.
John 5, 24 - 30
24 Truly I say to you, The man whose ears are open to my word and who has faith in him who sent me, has eternal life; he will not be judged, but has come from death into life. 25 Truly I say to you, The time is coming, it has even now come, when the voice of the Son of God will come to the ears of the dead, and those hearing it will have life. 26 For even as the Father has life in himself, so he has given to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to be judge because he is the Son of man. 28 Do not be surprised at this: for the time is coming when his voice will come to all who are in the place of the dead, 29 And they will come out; those who have done good, into the new life; and those who have done evil, to be judged. 30 Of myself I am unable to do anything: as the voice comes to me so I give a decision: and my decision is right because I have no desire to do what is pleasing to myself, but only what is pleasing to him who sent me.

John 6, 35 - 40
35 And this was the answer of Jesus: I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never be in need of food, and he who has faith in me will never be in need of drink. 36 But it is as I said to you: you have seen me, and still you have no faith. 37 Whatever the Father gives to me will come to me; and I will not send away anyone who comes to me. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my pleasure, but the pleasure of him who sent me. 39 And this is the pleasure of him who sent me, that I am not to let out of my hands anything which he has given me, but I am to give it new life on the last day. 40 This, I say, is my Father's pleasure, that everyone who sees the Son and has faith in him may have eternal life: and I will take him up on the last day.
For me it sounds like Jesus will awake all believers on the last day and not earlier. The dead which didn't hear him in their lifetime will hear him after death. If they accept him or not, will be in their hand. Maybe we have to forget our imagine of time and space which we have in our lifetime on earth. The death has maybe other parameters to these two things.
But it only is an little idea of mine, maybe is right or not.

[jive4005]

Always a great question.

God says we are responsible only for what we know!
He has other ways (and has used them for a long time) to judge righteousness and heart and love. That IS what God wants... all of us to love each other.

I recall that nobody told Abram (before the name change) that God existed or deserved respect... he looked around and KNEW! And God credited Abram's faith as righteousness!!! How awesome! Even so much that Abraham became a "friend of God"!

God... our great and true way-maker. Praise His name.

His,
Rev J