Curious modern phenomenon of fundamentalist atheism...

[GreenMunchkin]

How has this come about? Even the use of "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Pastafarian" now being commonly used phrases. Is it books like Richard Dawkins'? Is the internet responsible for the proliferation?

Sites like infidels and Yahoo Answers... are they giving atheists a place to commune? If so, that's great, as we all need fellowship, but atheism is morphing into a religion that hates Christianity. Not Deism, but Christianity in particular. It's becoming an actual religion, and yet no atheist is willing to acknowledge that.

I know we are nearing the end days, so it's to be expected, but is anyone shocked by its pace and how hateful it is and how *big* and organised it's become? Like a ground-swell, and seemingly in the last couple of months or so... maybe even less.

And how do we counteract such hatred and vitriol? By praying for the people, and by witnessing, but in the long term, what can we do? And does it hurt anyone else's heart?

[staveoffzombies]

It's mostly a bunch of angsty teens who spend too much time online and probably have overbearing, religious parents. It's not a big deal.

[GreenMunchkin]

Oof, it would be wonderful if that were the case, but it's simply not the case. Not even a tiny bit.

[GreenMunchkin]

I just got a pm, so I should clarify... it's more about anti-theism than atheism. Anti-theists who label themselves atheist.

[MARK777]

Hey GM, I have noticed this too, and it does seem to be snowballing at an ever increasing rate, and yes it is to be expected, it seems that as we approach this end of the age there appears to be a clearer and clearer divide of good and evil, and seems to be no middle ground.

I actually just read a verse in Matthew earlier today which is kinda relevant.

Mat 13:36 Then he left the multitudes, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Explain unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 And he answered and said, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38and the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
Mat 13:39and the enemy that sowed them is the devil: and the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the end of the world.
Mat 13:41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity,
Mat 13:42and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears, let him hear.

With regards to what we are suppose to do, I think this parable explains it nicely as well, we are to remain as the good seed and let God work in our lives so we can grow, the weeds can hinder and irritate us but nothing can stop God from the work he has started, it all turns out good in the end :)

[OldChurchGuy]

How has this come about? Even the use of "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Pastafarian" now being commonly used phrases. Is it books like Richard Dawkins'? Is the internet responsible for the proliferation?

Sites like infidels and Yahoo Answers... are they giving atheists a place to commune? If so, that's great, as we all need fellowship, but atheism is morphing into a religion that hates Christianity. Not Deism, but Christianity in particular. It's becoming an actual religion, and yet no atheist is willing to acknowledge that.

I know we are nearing the end days, so it's to be expected, but is anyone shocked by its pace and how hateful it is and how *big* and organised it's become? Like a ground-swell, and seemingly in the last couple of months or so... maybe even less.

And how do we counteract such hatred and vitriol? By praying for the people, and by witnessing, but in the long term, what can we do? And does it hurt anyone else's heart?

Apparently I have led a very sheltered life. What is the significance of the phrases "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Pastafarian"?

Having talked with some atheists in the past, I don't think you can ever make a convincing case that atheism is a religion. The common definition for atheism is a lack of belief in god(s). Religion, by it's very nature, believes in some kind of a supernatural force or being.

Witnessing to atheists is almost always unproductive as almost all Christians (myself included) are unable to prove the existence of God other than a strong personal belief. To the best of my knowledge, there is no objective procedure that, when applied repeatedly, will always show a measurable or visible God.

Those atheists who seem to be hateful and vitrolic tend to be ones who have repeatedly had their atheism questioned by Christians but with no supporting proof other than personal faith (in my opinion anyway).

Therefore, if one attempts to bring subjective belief to a person who is wanting objective evidence, there will always be a disconnect.

What to do? My advice is to treat atheists with respect as you would anyone. If you pray for them, I suggest doing it in silence as announcing to an atheist you are praying for him/her does not create a positive influence. The reason is in the above paragraph.

Personally, I have enjoyed discussing issues with atheists as their questions and views have forced me to examine my faith with a sharper eye than I would have otherwise.

Probably more than you wanted to hear. Thanks for letting me speak.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

[GreenMunchkin]

Hey GM, I have noticed this too, and it does seem to be snowballing at an ever increasing rate, and yes it is to be expected, it seems that as we approach this end of the age there appears to be a clearer and clearer divide of good and evil, and seems to be no middle ground.

I actually just read a verse in Matthew earlier today which is kinda relevant.

Mat 13:36 Then he left the multitudes, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Explain unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 And he answered and said, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38and the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
Mat 13:39and the enemy that sowed them is the devil: and the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the end of the world.
Mat 13:41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity,
Mat 13:42and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears, let him hear.

With regards to what we are suppose to do, I think this parable explains it nicely as well, we are to remain as the good seed and let God work in our lives so we can grow, the weeds can hinder and irritate us but nothing can stop God from the work he has started, it all turns out good in the end :)

You're so right, bro :hug: Thank you :) That's the thing to remember, as well, isn't it. It's another way of the devil turning people away. He's throwing absolutely everything he has at us all now. It's amazing, though, that somehow intelligence has become all wrapped up in this issue. The times have been told "Christians just don't have the intelligence or education to realise how stupid it is. They're not even worth discussing it with." I should add, again, that's mostly from people who call themselves Atheists, as opposed to atheists :(

Apparently I have led a very sheltered life. What is the significance of the phrases "Flying Spaghetti Monster" and "Pastafarian"?It's relatively new, I think. It's a term atheists use to signify God. The Michaelangelo painting of God touching Adam's finger has been doctored to look like a plate of pasta, and a string of pasts representing God's hand, which has been labelled "his noddly appendage".

Some Christians don't mind the comparison; some are offended by it. Some atheists use it solely to point out how absurd they see the whole idea of God; some use it to offend and upset Christians. Either way, it's become something of a meme.

Having talked with some atheists in the past, I don't think you can ever make a convincing case that atheism is a religion. The common definition for atheism is a lack of belief in god(s). Religion, by it's very nature, believes in some kind of a supernatural force or being.That's part of this new "landscape". I was actually insulted and called names cos I was apparently so "disrespectful" as to not capitalize the "A" in atheist. So there's now atheists, and Atheists, who are Fundamentalist anti-theists, in reality. So now there's atheists, Fundamental Atheists, and anti-theists... all under the loose terms "atheists". And that's what I don't understand.

Witnessing to atheists is almost always unproductive as almost all Christians (myself included) are unable to prove the existence of God other than a strong personal belief. To the best of my knowledge, there is no objective procedure that, when applied repeatedly, will always show a measurable or visible God.

Those atheists who seem to be hateful and vitrolic tend to be ones who have repeatedly had their atheism questioned by Christians but with no supporting proof other than personal faith (in my opinion anyway).

Therefore, if one attempts to bring subjective belief to a person who is wanting objective evidence, there will always be a disconnect.You're probably right. It's painful when some of them are *so* mean, though. But we're coming up against not them as people, but principalities.

What to do? My advice is to treat atheists with respect as you would anyone. If you pray for them, I suggest doing it in silence as announcing to an atheist you are praying for him/her does not create a positive influence. The reason is in the above paragraph.

Personally, I have enjoyed discussing issues with atheists as their questions and views have forced me to examine my faith with a sharper eye than I would have otherwise.

Probably more than you wanted to hear. Thanks for letting me speak.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuyNot at all. I love your take on it. Could read what you say for days :hug:

You're right about being loving and respectful. Am just so baffled as to how it all developed so fast, and became so widespread and organised. But maybe it goes back to the issue of principalities...

Anyway. Thank you *so* much for your thoughts. I enjoyed reading them very much.

[Nurbz]

I'll tell you guys right now as a young frequenter of other online forums that it's backlash against:

-The outrage over fred phelps
-The screaming about how homosexuals are going to be the downfall of our society
-Politicial hypocritical christians on TV
-Attempt by evangelicals to gain control of government and turn it into a theocracy by indoctrunating children
-Making abstanence the only sex education
-Making Creationism the only taught theory
-etc

Are they being tactful? no, but neither are the christians who are acting the same way, just on the other side of the fence

[Peregrino]

I'll tell you guys right now as a young frequenter of other online forums that it's backlash against:

-The outrage over fred phelps
-The screaming about how homosexuals are going to be the downfall of our society
-Politicial hypocritical christians on TV
-Attempt by evangelicals to gain control of government and turn it into a theocracy by indoctrunating children
-Making abstanence the only sex education
-Making Creationism the only taught theory
-etc

Are they being tactful? no, but neither are the christians who are acting the same way, just on the other side of the fence

I fully agree. When I was on atheist fora, the subjects were maybe some 70-80% against fundamentalists. Dawkins, for example, seems to be pretty upset about the attacks on empirical biology (he's an evolutionary biologist, and I know how he can feel, I'm a psychologist and I feel insulted about the "scientology" scam) and sectarian violence.

Bad Christians have done as much or more harm to Christianity than non-Christians IMO.

Good Lord Jesus, help us from ourselves! Shine your light and help us live your Love, even if you have to whack us on the head to wake us up! :prayer:

[twistedsketch]

For being non-religious, these kinds of atheists have a lot of religious hatred. They also have a lot of faith (being sure that there is no God). But they'll never admit it.

These people I have found to be mostly swine, so it is a waste to throw our pearls before them (Mt 7:6). I pray for God to draw them to Himself, and when He draws and softens their hearts, perhaps then they will be worth witnessing to (Jn 6:44). In the meantime, we ought to read up on apologetics to disprove their silly prejudices against our intelligence.

[twistedsketch]

I'll tell you guys right now as a young frequenter of other online forums that it's backlash against:

-The outrage over fred phelps
-The screaming about how homosexuals are going to be the downfall of our society
-Politicial hypocritical christians on TV
-Attempt by evangelicals to gain control of government and turn it into a theocracy by indoctrunating children
-Making abstanence the only sex education
-Making Creationism the only taught theory
-etc

Are they being tactful? no, but neither are the christians who are acting the same way, just on the other side of the fence
I can actually see the logic behind what isn't bolded, but what I bolded are all misconceptions they have about us. We are not pushing for these things. And many people know now that Phelps does not represent the religious right or anybody but himself, really.

[Nurbz]

For being non-religious, these kinds of atheists have a lot of religious hatred. They also have a lot of faith (being sure that there is no God). But they'll never admit it.

These people I have found to be mostly swine, so it is a waste to throw our pearls before them (Mt 7:6). I pray for God to draw them to Himself, and when He draws and softens their hearts, perhaps then they will be worth witnessing to (Jn 6:44). In the meantime, we ought to read up on apologetics to disprove their silly prejudices against our intelligence.

I can actually see the logic behind what isn't bolded, but what I bolded are all misconceptions they have about us. We are not pushing for these things. And many people know now that Phelps does not represent the religious right or anybody but himself, really.

You must consider how the most visible Christians present themselves. Do the people that feed the poor get on TV? no, those that thrust themselves are:

- The 'religious leaders' that sit on TV talking about homosexuals while they themselves have comitted adultary or priests that have molested children
-those that scream "GOD HATES F*GS GOD HATES F*GS"

our fellow believers have their own hate that gets reported, and that hate is what the fundamentalist athiests react to in the same manner.

you reap what you sew. You scream hatered and it gets screamed back at you.

If you don't like it we must witness to our misled followers

[twistedsketch]

You must consider how the most visible Christians present themselves. Do the people that feed the poor get on TV? no, those that thrust themselves are:

- The 'religious leaders' that sit on TV talking about homosexuals while they themselves have comitted adultary or priests that have molested children
-those that scream "GOD HATES F*GS GOD HATES F*GS"

our fellow believers have their own hate that gets reported, and that hate is what the fundamentalist athiests react to in the same manner.

you reap what you sew. You scream hatered and it gets screamed back at you.

If you don't like it we must witness to our misled followers
It doesn't help that the media wants to cover these bad apples and not on the positives we do.

[Nurbz]

It doesn't help that the media wants to cover these bad apples and not on the positives we do.

You can't give the political party's 'dismissal of responsibility' slogan :P

its not the fault of the messenger, it lies on the shoulders of those who create the hate by misrepresenting OUR faith.

The media isn't harassing homosexuals, and the media doesn't molest children... Don't blame the media, but witness to the fallen and misled. If we acted like we were suppost to, we wouldn't give the news anything to report BUT the positives.

[twistedsketch]

You can't give the political party's 'dismissal of responsibility' slogan :P

its not the fault of the messenger, it lies on the shoulders of those who create the hate by misrepresenting OUR faith.

The media isn't harassing homosexuals, and the media doesn't molest children... Don't blame the media, but witness to the fallen and misled. If we acted like we were suppost to, we wouldn't give the news anything to report BUT the positives.
They would still find something, because of changing values. Westboro Baptist and the pedophile priests certainly aren't helping, but enough secularists hate conservative Christianity on its own merits. They hate what the Bible says, Old Testament and New.

[stone]

I've known many many atheist in my life and all of them are very very nice people. They have huge hearts, they all have christian friends or relatives. Most have no hatred towards others and are mostly liberal. They tend to be intelligent.

The only difference is that they do not beleive that everything could have been created by a gd.

I've found more hatred and conflict within christianity, than what is expressed towards it from the outside.

[JAS4Yeshua]

1) The church is made up of sinners.

2) Many sinners never come to repentence, yet still believe they are Christians just because--they live in the United States--their parents are Christian--they're relatively good people--they go to church--they do Christian things--whatever other label you want to put here.

3) Satan has infiltrated many congregations and is destroying them from within.

Satan knows he will be defeated, so he is trying to bring down as many as he can with him. He can't defeat the church directly, so he picks away at them, both from within the church and from without.

Are there good athiests? Sure. Are there bad Christians? Absolutely. None of it really matters in light of the Gospel. Satan will do everything he can to make sure he destroys as many lives as possible. We need to spread the Gospel, in light of all the enemy's lies. We need to stand firm in the Truth, be a light in our words and our actions, and pray for those who are lost.

[dawnsday]

Hey GM, I have noticed this too, and it does seem to be snowballing at an ever increasing rate, and yes it is to be expected, it seems that as we approach this end of the age there appears to be a clearer and clearer divide of good and evil, and seems to be no middle ground.

I actually just read a verse in Matthew earlier today which is kinda relevant.

Mat 13:36 Then he left the multitudes, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Explain unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 And he answered and said, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38and the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
Mat 13:39and the enemy that sowed them is the devil: and the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the end of the world.
Mat 13:41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity,
Mat 13:42and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears, let him hear.

With regards to what we are suppose to do, I think this parable explains it nicely as well, we are to remain as the good seed and let God work in our lives so we can grow, the weeds can hinder and irritate us but nothing can stop God from the work he has started, it all turns out good in the end :)




yeah but what does that mean? i don't know what tares are?

[stone]

1) The church is made up of sinners.

2) Many sinners never come to repentence, yet still believe they are Christians just because--they live in the United States--their parents are Christian--they're relatively good people--they go to church--they do Christian things--whatever other label you want to put here.

3) Satan has infiltrated many congregations and is destroying them from within.

Satan knows he will be defeated, so he is trying to bring down as many as he can with him. He can't defeat the church directly, so he picks away at them, both from within the church and from without.

Are there good athiests? Sure. Are there bad Christians? Absolutely. None of it really matters in light of the Gospel. Satan will do everything he can to make sure he destroys as many lives as possible. We need to spread the Gospel, in light of all the enemy's lies. We need to stand firm in the Truth, be a light in our words and our actions, and pray for those who are lost.


:amen:

[stone]

yeah but what does that mean? i don't know what tares are?


The tares are those without the holy spirit.

[twistedsketch]

I've known many many atheist in my life and all of them are very very nice people. They have huge hearts, they all have christian friends or relatives. Most have no hatred towards others and are mostly liberal. They tend to be intelligent.

The only difference is that they do not beleive that everything could have been created by a gd.

I've found more hatred and conflict within christianity, than what is expressed towards it from the outside.
We're not talking about those people, we're talking about the radical anti-Christian secularists.

[stone]

We're not talking about those people, we're talking about the radical anti-Christian secularists.


This is what the op reads:

Curious modern phenomenon of fundamentalist atheism

[GreenMunchkin]

Read 2 posts after that... I acknowledged I phrased it wrong and clarified.

But, yes, I am referring to to Fundamentalist Atheism, not atheism.

[dawnsday]

The tares are those without the holy spirit.


okay, that's what they represent, from your view, i'm actually asking what they ARE.

I like to know the literal meaning to things and understand the metephore myself (never trust another man with the interpretation of your faith, ya know?)

thanks a ton!

[twistedsketch]

This is what the op reads:

Curious modern phenomenon of fundamentalist atheism

Yes. FUNDAMENTALIST Atheism. Not Joe Blow atheism.

[stone]

a tare?

it's a weed that grows with a crop and chokes it out.

Bible. a noxious weed, probably the darnel.

[stone]

Yes. FUNDAMENTALIST Atheism. Not Joe Blow atheism.

What is fundamentalist atheism?

[dawnsday]

a tare?

it's a weed that grows with a crop and chokes it out.

Bible. a noxious weed, probably the darnel.

thanks. :wave:

[twistedsketch]

What is fundamentalist atheism?
It's the militant, Richard Dawkins type atheism. By the way, Dawkins believes that passing on religion to your children is child abuse. THAT kind of atheism.

[JAS4Yeshua]

I'll let Scripture speak for itself.

Psalms 53:1-6 NIV
1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good. 2 God looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. 3 Everyone has turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. 4 Will the evildoers never learn-- those who devour my people as men eat bread and who do not call on God? 5 There they were, overwhelmed with dread, where there was nothing to dread. God scattered the bones of those who attacked you; you put them to shame, for God despised them. 6 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When God restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

Romans 14:11 NIV
It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

[Simon_Templar]

I'll tell you guys right now as a young frequenter of other online forums that it's backlash against:

-The outrage over fred phelps
-The screaming about how homosexuals are going to be the downfall of our society
-Politicial hypocritical christians on TV
-Attempt by evangelicals to gain control of government and turn it into a theocracy by indoctrunating children
-Making abstanence the only sex education
-Making Creationism the only taught theory
-etc

Are they being tactful? no, but neither are the christians who are acting the same way, just on the other side of the fence
The problem here is that most of the charges above are themselves little more than propaganda.

the left in the US has put on a huge push to demonize right wing christians and conservatives in general. Most (not all) of the things on this list are the result of that effort.

I readily agree that the neo-conservative movement has done us no favors because of skewed understandings and short sighted foolishness, but by and large what this all comes down to is the fact that we are in the middle of an ideological war. The other side is doing a good job of smearing christians. They've had the help of some christians who have been foolish. I don't include fred phelps in the group because I don't consider him a christian by any stretch. I think most reasonable people realize that he isn't a follower of Jesus Christ.

However, the fact also remains that the church, by and large, has been impacted by the indoctrinations of the opposing world view as well. Which is why you see this kind of propaganda taking root even among christians.